flyback nope flyback giving up bobo1on1 how ironic bobo1on1 what do you mean by main power input Quatermass flyback: are you asking what your own main power input is? flyback BMCC Quatermass weirdo :P flyback ACTION hits Quatermass with his brusistus flyback *squish* flyback ah better flyback fucking sucks cheater https://go.twitch.tv/tomcosm flyback like having a water ballon for an elbow kmcia hi ZeroWalker ZeroWalker hi hi:) kmcia what's new? pfred1 kmcia not a thing really pfred1 well I got a new pip today flyback bursitis sucks canadian dick pfred1 but that's not much, now is it pfred1 apparently the pip this distro ships with sucks cocks in hell flyback I have to decide in the next day to either get put out or just ride thru 21 shots in mthe mouth flyback to get all my top teeeth removed pfred1 get knocked out ZeroWalker trying to get my stm32 working via flashing a bootloader by serial from an orange pi;p flyback I am leaning more toward being awak now after reading horror stories of being being awake but unable move but feeling it flyback also I feel pain in my sleep flyback and I thrash around pfred1 when they knock you out you're out flyback im not so sure :/ bobo1on1 maybe you can get a test run pfred1 hell I don't even remember walking away flyback I woke up during my colon scope flyback from the pain pfred1 I came to two hours later and miles away flyback that's what she said pfred1 although it did hurt like a son of a bitch later pfred1 but they gave me a whole bottle of demerols flyback yeah I am going to be heavy on viccdin a few days pfred1 which I washed down with some whiskeu flyback 7 teeth yanked pfred1 I had all my siwdom teeth done pfred1 wisdom even pfred1 one was impacted but I said pull them all pfred1 I only wanted to go through it once pfred1 the worst pain I ever felt was a strangulated hernia I had pfred1 man that hurt pfred1 I was literally on my hands and knees crawling around ThePendulum anyone using SDuino with the Arduino IDE? ThePendulum I'm getting an error fork/exec /home/niels/.arduino15/packages/sduino/tools/STM8Tools/2017.10.21/wrapper/sdcc.sh: no such file or directory, while that file exists and has read and execute permissions for everyone pfred1 cannot access /home/pfred1/Build/kicad/kicad-4.0.5/build/release/kicad/_eeschema.kiface: No such file or directory pfred1 there's a lot of that going around lately ThePendulum got that one figured out, apparently it's using dash rather than bash which I didn't have installed ThePendulum on to the next fork/exec {runtime.tools.avr-gcc.path}/bin/avr-objcopy: no such file or directory, lol pfred1 some wanker trying to be different, huh>' ThePendulum it's such a fantastically useless error too, I opened up sdcc.sh and noticed #!/bin/dash ThePendulum thought it was a typo at first bobo1on1 heh pfred1 nope dash is some queerbait's idea of a shell LuminaxWk morning bobo1on1 should always be #!/bin/sh pfred1 bobo1on1++ bobo1on1 although #!/bin/bash should also always work on desktop systems LuminaxWk #!/bin/bash kmcia /bin/sh is dash on debian ThePendulum I have no idea what {runtime/tools.avr-gcc.path} is supposed to be kmcia on some other systems it's a symlink to bash (which starts up in sh-compatible mode because of argv[0]) bobo1on1 if your script has bash-isms, it should be #!/bin/bash pfred1 kmcia that's why I'm switching to Gentoo kmcia indeed pfred1 Debian is for the birds anymore bobo1on1 hm I like debian pfred1 I used to bobo1on1 I think debian achieved what ubuntu set out to do pfred1 piss all their old users off? bobo1on1 install it, and everything works redrabbit yep debian is the best bobo1on1 that was not the case 10 years ago tawr ThePendulum: uhm tawr -rwxr-xr-x@ 1 tawrbo staff 885048 Dec 5 2016 avr-objcopy tawr i don't understand how you don't understand tawr where are ANY of your avr toolchain binaries? tawr you are supposed to EDIT that line in the file to match YOUR directory kmcia what kind of RF connector is this http://tinyimg.io/i/NZL1lHN.jpg kmcia this is on a LTE to WiFi brick flyback I guess I should get knocked out so I hope I die during tawr needs more mailing addresses kmcia tawr kmcia: it SHOULD be sma or rpsma but it doesn't look like it. type in the name of your device and add "replacement antenna" to the search kmcia nah it's not SMA for sure kmcia this is tiny kmcia see usb micro port for reference ThePendulum tawr: ah I see, my bad, I didn't really think I would've had to do that tawr can't be ufl either. can you give the name of your device? ThePendulum nor does it seem like that after some googling actually tawr ThePendulum: edit the line or export the PATH to point at your avr binaries kmcia it's a netgear device i got from AT&T ThePendulum tawr: yeah I've been trying to find where they are at all ThePendulum but it seems to be a known issue with the IDE as well kmcia a few years ago tawr for osx it's: /Applications/Arduino.app/Contents/Java/hardware/tools/avr/bin/ tawr kmcia: i meant it's model # kmcia I think it's the "AT&T Unite Express for GoPhone" tawr it will say it on the sticker kmcia tawr: I know, I am looking kmcia what sticker? tawr FASTER Shawn|i7-720QM I'm not finding any step up voltage converter IC's on any of these laptop motherboards :( tawr i dunno, on the bottom probably tawr Shawn|i7-720QM: why do you think there's a stepup? they usually step down. flyback anyone rememeber any mining machinery that looked like bowling pins ThePendulum tawr: not entirely sure if it's trying to find it within Arduino itself or within the plugin directory Shawn|i7-720QM I need a step up tawr tawr Shawn|i7-720QM: then you won't find one there Shawn|i7-720QM where would I find one?? tawr ThePendulum: well what is IT? tawr octopart.com ThePendulum sduino tawr i meant the specific thing you are trying to do, ThePendulum kmcia https://www.alternativewireless.com/machine-to-machine/hotspots/att-unite-express-antennas-boosters.html ThePendulum I'm trying to compile a simple blink sketch for an STM8 with sduino and the arduino IDE Shawn|i7-720QM tawr, what electronic devices might have step up ic's? kmcia looks like it's a Netgear 779S tawr ThePendulum: the stock IDE should know where it is. tawr Shawn|i7-720QM: not many, they're expensive and require a lot of components. it's usually done the other way tawr since having a wall plug the difference between having it output 12v over 5v is only a few cents kmcia I guess it's "FME"? Shawn|i7-720QM well, I'm looking for a solution to step up 3.7V to 6V ThePendulum tawr: reinstalling it from scratch now, as the suggestion is here and there ozzzy Shawn|i7-720QM, there are lots of boost converters on ebay tawr Shawn|i7-720QM: tawr either buy a board that does it kmcia hm or not Shawn|i7-720QM ozzzy, I already know that, but I dont have time for ebay right now.. tawr or buy the components Shawn|i7-720QM I have components tawr Shawn|i7-720QM: go to pololu ozzzy well... you could build one tawr they have them for 5 bucks or something Shawn|i7-720QM tawr, what is pololu? tawr it's somthing you type into google kmcia oh this is a pigtail with FME on the OTHER end ThePendulum guess that didn't work then, lol kmcia wait i'm so confused https://www.alternativewireless.com/netgear-778s-779s-dual-antenna-adapter-sma.html Shawn|i7-720QM tawr, theres a lot of those somethings on google tawr ThePendulum: something has to be messing up. put the whole log on pastebin Drakonite Shawn|i7-720QM, why 6V? Not 5V? tawr Shawn|i7-720QM: if you typed it in, you would have figured it out Shawn|i7-720QM because the kameleon remote I have dims at 5v, but not 6v LuminaxWk back.... *phew* ThePendulum tawr: http://sprunge.us/eQKB?txt Shawn|i7-720QM tawr, I'm nowhere near las vegas LuminaxWk operators... LuminaxWk never listen to instruction and then complain why the fucking thing doesn't work Shawn|i7-720QM ozzzy, I was originally thinking about buildin one ThePendulum not sure there's more relevant info in there LuminaxWk it's the WRONG JIG goddamnit >< ozzzy still have to buy all the components Drakonite Shawn|i7-720QM, polulu is a company. one of the popular things they sell is small regulators, both step down and step up Shawn|i7-720QM ozzzy, as I said, I have a lot of components LuminaxWk and stepper driver ? Shawn|i7-720QM Drakonite, yes I know, I looked it up Drakonite searchs can get a little goofy as the RC crowd likes to call 5v step-down boards as "polulu's" LuminaxWk pololu? polulu ? Drakonite LuminaxWk, hm. however it's spelled. pololu apparently. splud kewl, I just located my old voice synth IC. splud I encountered the docs for it, but not the IC, LuminaxWk splud: Yamaha ? splud General Instrument https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Instrument_SP0256 tawr ThePendulum: it tells you everything you need to know there Shawn|i7-720QM should I try building one with a 555 timer? splud Lets' say I've had it for a _while_ LuminaxWk ah LuminaxWk a while, indeed pfred1 have SPO256 ICs pfred1 they're bad ass splud Was in an anti-stat tray with an 8042 and 8088. pfred1 ever make it do the crown thing on an oscilliscope? LuminaxWk oh.... mine's XG... not exactly a voice synth LuminaxWk more like a synth... ThePendulum tawr: I have no idea what it expects {runtime.tools.avr-gcc.path} to be, nor where avr-objcopy actually is Shawn|i7-720QM my kameleon remote consumes up to 12mA of current at 6V tawr ThePendulum: i showed you previously pfred1 there's one mode the chip goes into and when yo uscope it it makes this spinning pattern that looks liek a crown LuminaxWk pfred1: debugmode ? pfred1 just one of the presets ThePendulum actually there's /usr/bin/avr-objcopy now ThePendulum that's a start pfred1 its this funny chime kmcia so I guess I need one of these whatever-bullshit to FMA cables, and FMA-to-SMA adapters, but those come w/ the cable ThePendulum /usr/bin is in my PATH though pfred1 I got a data sheet for those chips around someplace pfred1 like on paper tawr ThePendulum: tawr you didn't follow directions: https://tenbaht.github.io/sduino/usage/manual-install/ ThePendulum tawr: probably because I did install it through the Arduino IDE.. tawr go google "sdruino compiling path" or "sduino avr-objcopy" pfred1 I think my batting average for installations is falling below 500 lately ThePendulum tawr: seems like compiler.tools.path=/usr/bin 'works' pfred1 the python and wxwidgets are so hosed on this system right now ThePendulum but I don't feel like I'm supposed to be editing that, let alone when installing through the IDE tawr ThePendulum: no tawr it is not going to /usr/bin tawr that is NOT what it's pointing at. tawr arduino tools are self-contained in the arduino directory. pfred1 tawr why *NOT*! tawr {runtime.tools.avr-gcc.path}/bin/avr-objcopy DoYouKnow I just bought 10 varactor diodes for gravitational wave experiments tawr that does not mean /bin/avr-objcopy, ThePendulum. that means RUNTIME TOOLS AVR GCC PATH/bin/ pfred1 I just bought 10 hits of acid off Wavy gravy DoYouKnow lol, pfred1 ThePendulum tawr: which is absolutely meaningless to me :/ splud Curious - went looking for the docs, and I found another IC - this one a Voice record/playback IC. DoYouKnow haha splud "Record and playback your own voice!" splud 20 second capacity. splud snicker. pfred1 that was amazing in the 80s tawr ThePendulum: dude splud indeed. The copyright on the speech synth IC is 1981. tawr do you understand folders? ThePendulum tawr: I only know of ~/.arduino15 and it's not in there, I have no idea where to look for it, the only place on my entire PC that has that binary by the looks of it is /usr/bin magic_ninja Hey, residential single phase power feeders. L1 and L2 180 degrees out of phase, meaning they are in phase but inverted? pfred1 tawr do you understand directories? splud "The SP0256 (Speech Processor) is a single chip N-channel MOS LSI device that is able, using its stored program, to synthesize speech or complex sounds." DoYouKnow lol, now I need to figure out how to make the sound card waveform output offset splud magic_ninja, residential WHERE IN THE WORLD? DoYouKnow by a DC offset of like 1-2 V tawr ThePendulum: it is in the log file. omg. i'm not on linux right now to show you. just find the damn file it's looking for and edit the file. did you install the arduino lib as a user? in which case it's in ~/arduino or ~/.arduino in many subfolders. ThePendulum which it's not, at least not that I can find tawr /home/niels/.arduino15/packages/ tawr then you would go pfred1 magic_ninja L1 and L2 are the two hots of a center tapped transformer with the center tap being neutral ThePendulum the sduino plugin is there, yeah tawr java/hardware/tools/avr/bin tawr which is where avrobjcopy resides, along with every other avr binary tawr if memory serves on how linux folders are which are almost identical to osx AND windows pfred1 magic_ninja so between L1 and L2 you have 240VAC and between either leg and neutral you have 120VAC magic_ninja pfred1, got ya, the center tap is the reference. ThePendulum so I first need to install an avr plugin into the IDE then? there's only esp8266 and sduino in packages/ kmcia arduino IDE is shit ThePendulum and no result from find magic_ninja My EE professor called it "Two-phase" today and I laughed because I know it is wrong but I couldn't remember what kept them in phase hehe magic_ninja ThePendulum, avrdude and use whatever you want to program. tawr https://github.com/tenbaht/sduino/commit/98ffd821e71081b987282df589287f8d0a6b7a77 tawr that is your issue, ThePendulum magic_ninja Atmega microcontroller? kmcia that split phase thing is the standard in the USA pfred1 it is single phase magic_ninja kmcia, yea, it is really common. We do like 800A single phase services. tawr magic_ninja: dont jump in unless you read the last 30 minutes tawr this is the stm32 arduino wrapper that lets you upload arduino code to stm32 mcu's. not avr chips, stm32's. stm32duino aka sduino magic_ninja tawr, If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all. ThePendulum (stm8 specifically) pfred1 there's no point to 2 phase that I know of tawr magic_ninja: you're new so i'll let it slide magic_ninja tawr, op or not man, that was a rude thing to say. tawr nope magic_ninja and thanks pfred1 kmcia any tips on positioning MIMO antennas? I know it's probably a huge topic ThePendulum tawr: not entirely sure what the relevance of those lines two is, it seems to find sdcc fine atm kmcia but like, if I have two dipole antennas for a receiver LuminaxWk magic_ninja: more often than not, jumping in into the middle of a conversation can be a disaster kmcia how far apart should the be kmcia and should the have the same orientation LuminaxWk too many cooks and all that pfred1 magic_ninja the real interesting thing is why we bond neutral to ground though tawr shrug, im done lol magic_ninja pfred1, I've always just figured it is to keep our reference point common throughout the distribution system. ThePendulum tawr: thanks none the leat, appreciate it pfred1 yes but the implications of if the grid floated is fascinating pfred1 the phone company is paranoid about it too kmcia also, wy do some dipoles have that coil in the middle kmcia such as https://www.alternativewireless.com/wilson-311104-nmo-mount-cellular-antenna.html ThePendulum guess I got to have another look at t his tomorrow magic_ninja pfred1, well, I've never had a physics class and am just getting through calc, so I can't really understand a lot of what is happening at a lower level. Drakonite kmcia, the coil just above the base? That is a way of making an antenna that is shorter than it would need to be if it was straight ThePendulum for now it works linked to the objcopy in /usr/bin *shrug* Shawn|i7-720QM might this work in a 3v to 6v boost converter? https://cds.linear.com/docs/en/datasheet/1373fbs.pdf magic_ninja pfred1, and imagine. Having far different potentials at different parts of the grid. That would wreak all kinds of havoc. No way to deal with noise. kmcia sometimes appliances are wired with no neutral, though kmcia but yeah it's needed for distribution pfred1 magic_ninja it is a high potential at any point that is the worry pfred1 our power grid is as big as the sky and we know about lightning in the sky magic_ninja kmcia, well, that is different. They often don't "need" a neutral. If there is 120V control voltage they can tap a line and use the X2 on the transformer. pfred1 if we didn't bond the grid we'd have lightning bolts coming out of sockets magic_ninja kmcia, The path is completed between L1 and L2. With modern electronics though, they just use the neutral for electronics. magic_ninja That would be terrible hehe pfred1 there's still an earth potential difference though pfred1 but it's only a few volts magic_ninja pfred1, you EE or electrician? pfred1 nope just a collector of trivia pfred1 well I've done electrical work in the past magic_ninja well, the earth has different potentials in different areas. kmcia I found out that cheap inverters have a neutral that's not at earth/ DC ground kmcia because they use 2 sine waves on L and N kmcia er square waves magic_ninja That is why we ground every so often and check the resistance from the ground bond at the first means of disconnect and the center transformer tap magic_ninja kmcia, that is a derived system. It is different because it is taking a DC signal and approximating a sin wave kmcia yeah kmcia approximating poorly... pfred1 they said AC not sine AC magic_ninja They don't necessarily have to be earth grounded to work, but often with AC systems they reference the 0VDC to earth ground and to chasis and such so that the metal frames become a part of the GEC system of the building. kmcia yeah LuminaxWk meh.... sparkies magic_ninja Sparkie by trade, soon to be an EE kmcia lol pfred1 magic_ninja I had a buddy that was an electrician until it dawned on him that parts were where the money's at splud kmcia - re arduino IDE. Use the avr-gcc toolchain. splud I build stuff using makefiles. pfred1 get a percentage on everyone else's work magic_ninja pfred1, well I'm not sure where I want to go. I enjoyed doing controls, telemetry, the technical stuff and troubleshooting a lot more than pure design or pure construction. splud the money is at what Whitefish was charging Puerto Rico for stuff. pfred1 electrical work ain't cheap magic_ninja There seems to be a market for doing other people's homework to hehe. magic_ninja *too magic_ninja I saw that. Those rates are insane magic_ninja It isn't that expensive though. I'm $70/hour for standard work and 100-125 for industrial controls type stuff. splud ooh, and there's a little container with some specfic value caps AND the 3.12MHz crystal the synth needs. Those have been sitting yet somewhere else for some time. pfred1 no one is going to hook Puerto Rico back up for free magic_ninja They should be able to order parts and get themselves hooked up hehe splud I do believe I'm going to get this synth on my winter to-do list. Should be fun just hearing what it sounds like. splud Nah, 1.1M people in US NE without power - wanna bet they'll be online a *LOT* sooner than PR? pfred1 well they're paying for it pfred1 with every bill splud And no problem that PR needs to cough up for infrastructure upgrades, but this Whitefish outfit was set up to really ream 'em. magic_ninja oh yea, that reminds me pfred1: To backtrack a bit, single phase in distribution is also often called "split phase" splud US resi is split phase. I recall asking you WHERE YOU WERE. pfred1 magic_ninja same thing it is still single phase though magic_ninja yea magic_ninja They are interchangeable terms. splud L to L is single phase, but the 120V business with a neutral is the split nature. pfred1 it isn't split it is center tapped blocky Anyone know the name of the 4-pin jack/socket/plug that those flat RGB LED strips use? LuminaxWk Molex ? LuminaxWk (usually) blocky Molex is the brand, right? blocky Not sure how to search for it on digi key pfred1 yeah but it referrs to one of their popular lines pfred1 Molex connectors are the old power connectors in PCs blocky I bought some cheapo lights off ebay but it didn't come with any sort of driver Drakonite no, if it's the connectors I think you mean, it's not molex, it's a jst type. blocky Yeah pfred1 the one I'm talking about is much smaller LuminaxWk oh it is? pfred1 sounds like a header connector then Drakonite JST-SM I think blocky very flat, like a sheet of paper LuminaxWk it's standard 0.1" right? just with hooks and all that pfred1 flat connector magic_ninja So torn...should I email my EE Professor and correct him? pfred1 magic_ninja want to pass the course? ball magic_ninja: Send him flowers. LuminaxWk correct him magic_ninja I don't know how to do it nicely, but I also don't want him to go around calling it "2-Phase" blocky these lights were so cheap, maybe i should just buy some new ones that come with a driver box lol pfred1 let it ride go along to get along magic_ninja And I don't want him teaching the other people in the class wrong. ball Correct him (but cite your sources ;-) Drakonite blocky, https://www.aliexpress.com/item/IsItThisType/32511015565.html pfred1 don't worry about everyone else LuminaxWk the worse thing that could happen is you don't correct him, and goes along, and later somewhere, where it's critical, he realizes his mistakes and 'corrects' it pfred1 if you want to worry about everyone else then go be a doctor Drakonite oh, flat ribbon cables? eh. There are different connectors used by different ones LuminaxWk thus rendering your result wrong pfred1 even they don't care magic_ninja I'll take it hehe blocky I'm starting to think I should just solder some wires on magic_ninja That being said, he isn't arrogant int he least. He is actually quite humble, and damn sharp. He comes from the field, not just from academia. pfred1 maybe on some level he's right? Drakonite blocky, probably the best option. Different strips use different connectors, so it's hard to say what you'd need without seeing it. Just replacing the cable is often a good option. magic_ninja pfred1, No, he isn't. pfred1 I never really scoped both phases and looked at them blocky magic_ninja: I haven't been following the convo from the start but I know I've had situations before where I thought I caught a mistake from a prof or a senior engineer and when I discussed it with them it turned out I was the one mistaken blocky what school is this where you get to be an EE prof without knowing about phases lol magic_ninja He flat out admits he isn't a power guy. pfred1 it is all semantics I mean what diffrence does it make? magic_ninja It is more of a semantics thing. magic_ninja Technically they are 180 degrees out of phase. pfred1 I always either deal with the two hots, or just a hot and the neutral blocky What did he say and what do you think it actually is? magic_ninja In the same sense that 360 degrees is equivalent to 720 degrees when utilizing the general solution to a trig function pfred1 so they could be any pahse and it wouldn't make any difference to me in use splud Heh, one of the test modes on the speech synth IC will spew out all of the internal ROM data on a serial pin. magic_ninja He was talking about residential distribution and called single phase two phase and had them like 120 degrees out of phase magic_ninja When generating 3-phase, that is the case, but not for single phase. splud and the device supports external ROMs. It's programmed with just English allophones, but with an external ROM... splud or more specifically, with something like an AVR and a spi flash... splud magic_ninja, 120 degrees out is three phase. splud kinda by definition. pfred1 magic_ninja the older I get the more importance I place on choosing my battles ball Ah damnit. Dog wants out. pfred1 a lot of stuff ain't worth arguing magic_ninja it wouldn't be an argument magic_ninja There is actually a standard 2-Phase circuit. I'll be darned. So that is why it is pretty much wrong when you call a split phase system 2 phase. pfred1 stepper motors can be 2 phase Bird|otherbox magic_ninja, there are actually two types of 2 phase circuits Bird|otherbox you have 90deg (quadrature) two phase which is obsolete Bird|otherbox and then what is called a "2 out of 3" circuit, where what otherwise would be a split-phase system is fed from 2 phases of a 208Y/120V three phase wye system Bird|otherbox the latter is common in high-rise residential buildings and the like, to this very day pfred1 here's a stepper motor running off single phase with the second phase made by capacitors http://i.imgur.com/L0AMzq8.jpg magic_ninja Bird|otherbox, yea, I worked on one the other day. Now, in that case it actually is a "two phase" system hehe. The thing is, any single phase loads you attach will have different power than they would for a standard split phase system, right? magic_ninja They wanted a 240V drier receptacle installed, I suggested they go with a three-phase drier but they insisted on 240. Well, it was actually a delta-fed system though, not Wye. Watch out for that high leg hehe. Bird|otherbox magic_ninja, line to line loads will be running at the 3ph line to line voltage (208V in standard north american wye) vs the split phase line to line voltage (240V) Bird|otherbox ah. yeah, watch out for that wild/high/stinger/power leg! Bird|otherbox keep a roll of orange electrical tape handy in your back pocket when working on those systems, and keep your voltmeter at hand too Bird|otherbox check everything you're hooking up a 120V thing/receptacle to to make sure that some doofus hasn't landed your run on the wild leg magic_ninja Caught a guy trying to hook up new plugs to the high leg about a week ago. He had been at it 23 years and wouldn't listen to me (I've been at it 4) so I had to call the boss so we didn't blow up customer equipment. Bird|otherbox wow magic_ninja And yea, I always check for a high leg on commercial 3 phase around here. magic_ninja It is almost all wye now, but we have a few older buildings that are still on delta transformers. Cracki high/wild leg? magic_ninja Cracki, sec I'll get diagrams. Cracki reading backlog magic_ninja http://forums.mikeholt.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=11927&d=1423834762 magic_ninja With a Wye system, you have the center tap that brings all three phases to the same potential relative to ground/neutral. With a delta system, you have a wild leg that is higher relative to ground than the rest. Phase C I believe. You can easily burn up single phase equipment. Bird|otherbox Phase B in the panel, Phase C in metering I believe Bird|otherbox but yes, great way to let the smoke out of single phase equipment (not as much as you used to be able to due to universal voltage SMPSUs being a thing -- they're happy as a clam on the wild leg) Bird|otherbox http://www.ecmweb.com/national-electrical-code/whats-wrong-here-hint-meter-doesn-t-lie magic_ninja Just a second. I got a codebook right here Bird|otherbox 110.15 calls out the orange marking for high legs Bird|otherbox and 408.3(E)(1) calls out the B phase as the high leg except in some meter-mains where it's the C phase due to the way the meter has to be wired dave0x6d hmmmm, this nrf51822 is rated for a max for 3.9V, but my 18650 battery is charged to 4V right now... magic_ninja Bird|otherbox, in 110.15 it says that "only the high leg shall be marked." Does that mean that you do not mark the other phases? Bird|otherbox magic_ninja, not with the orange tape Bird|otherbox they're normal, so you odn't need to mark them. the high leg gets the marking ofc because it's the one you need to steer clear of magic_ninja Oh, it is saying specifically to NOT mark any other phases orange. Bird|otherbox exactly dave0x6d Is 0.1V really going to blow a fuse? magic_ninja But there is another section that states you identify three phase systems. Bird|otherbox magic_ninja, only if there are multiple voltage systems on the premises magic_ninja Of course, BOY for high and BRB for low Bird|otherbox that's just a convention :) Bird|otherbox that /4 stuff is handy in standard split phase too Bird|otherbox (esp. with the new switch loop rules in) dave0x6d should I risk it? Bird|otherbox dave0x6d, stick a Schottky in there if it's just for prototyping's sake magic_ninja Our ahj requires it Cracki I like wye Bird|otherbox magic_ninja, what's interesting is that if you have a phase converter in parallel with a standard split phase feed, that actually is equivalent to a high-leg delta whenever the converter's running, with the converter-generated phase being the high leg dave0x6d Bird|otherbox: don't have one within arm's reach. Bird|otherbox magic_ninja, ah :) Bird|otherbox dave0x6d, well, you could slap some other diode in there if it can run down to say 3.0V or whatnot zigggggy BATCH! magic_ninja Bird|otherbox, I was looking for all this in article 450 Cracki or diode in series to drop some voltage batch zigggggy! batch too much G magic_ninja I'm taking my journeyman's this summer. I took it this summer, but I didn't have time to study. I was only two short questions short of passing, so I thought I did okay. magic_ninja Considering I been using the code about 8 months at the time hehe. restorer dave0x6d: double-check? I googled quickly and the first result says 1.8V - 3.6V dave0x6d restorer: https://devzone.nordicsemi.com/question/51951/maximum-voltage-level-for-nrf51-dk/?answer=52071#post-id-52071 Bird|otherbox yeah, I'm not even a sparky, just most of the way to a Computer Engineering degree. snagged a PDF copy of the 2014 code when I got the chance though Bird|otherbox (interestingly enough -- my plan B for if they try to ship all the IT jobs to India is to go off and apprentice as an electrician) restorer dave0x6d: ah, okay, that's with a diode drop on the inputs, I see dave0x6d restorer: yeah. So I'd be putting in 3.7V instead of 3.6V. LuminaxWk Bird|otherbox: you mean they don't already do that? :P magic_ninja Bird|otherbox, I'm working on EE here, and I am a sparky hehe. Also, if you don't mind getting dirty and doing the hard work you can look into industrial controls. Your degree and some hands-on and mechanical ability will put you ahead of the pack. DocScrutinizer05 IT psychologist is the future. Make neuronal networks in AI forget about their nightmares. CS is so yesterday LuminaxWk CS.... did it even 'exist' ? magic_ninja and honestly, as a good controls guy you can make a lot more money that most IT jobs Bird|otherbox magic_ninja, mechanical isn't my strongsuit, but controls can be fun I'm sure :) (actually have a small book on ladderlogic and such) magic_ninja well, if you consider ECE IT Bird|otherbox also have some knowledge of relay logic magic_ninja you wear many hats. Mainly you just can't be afraid to be on the production floor Bird|otherbox I personally dunno how well I'd be at pulling wire, but the troubleshooting aspects sound like fun xD dave0x6d restorer: i mean it's only 0.1V... right? :p Bird|otherbox but yeah :) I don't think I'd mind too hard being down on a factory floor pfred1 I don't like trouble Bird|otherbox ACTION has been in a working railyard before DocScrutinizer05 my saying since 1985: software engineers constantly work for obsoleting their own employment Bird|otherbox (legit, too) dave0x6d restorer: alright, I found a 3.3V within arm's reach. dave0x6d ugh, so much wiring now. restorer dave0x6d: I mean, you could just discharge the battery a bit first :P magic_ninja anyway, I'm going to get dinner. I'm starving. Goatman magic_ninja, were are you going to get dinner? magic_ninja The kitchen dave0x6d restorer: that quickly though? dave0x6d 0.1V is a lot for a battery. restorer dave0x6d: that would be maybe a tenth of an 18650's capacity, at 1C, that'd take what, 6 minutes? assuming you have the right power resistor kmcia if I have some coax, terminate it at 50 ohms, and read the other end as 54 ohm with my DMM kmcia then it's probably okay right? kmcia sadly I do not have a network analyzer tgeeky kmcia: no tgeeky you are just reading the termination, which is probably 53 ohms tgeeky err wait, you mean OK as in, intact and not broken? kmcia because it's DC? kmcia yeah. intact and a 50 ohm impedance tgeeky or OK as in, it's a 50 ohm cable (as opposed to 75) kmcia right kmcia that one kmcia I should have been more specific tgeeky yeah no, you don't know the 50/75 ohm issue, but you can conclude that it's intact kmcia ok tgeeky if you have a function generator kmcia to test that I need a NA? kmcia ok tgeeky you can put ... a square wave in it, I think, and them look to see to what extent the 50 ohm termination kills the reflections tgeeky i actually have a terminator with a variable resistor at the end, so I'll put the cable up, dial the resistence until reflections cease, then measure the termination kmcia true kmcia that's neat. I should make one of those kmcia is it just a pot soldered to an RF connector? tgeeky kmcia: yep, I just hijacked a BNC to RCA converter (soldered the pot instead of an RCA) tgeeky https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Il_eju4D_TM electrobot tgeeky just linked to #37: Use a scope to measure the length and impedance of coax - YouTube kmcia neat kmcia well that's a project for a lazy day Eduard_Munteanu Couldn't find an ESR meters on Farnell. One would think these things are common.. Eduard_Munteanu *meter. tgeeky i love my DE 5000 tgeeky kmcia: you can easily just use the terminator you already have if you have a function generator tgeeky kmcia: that video demonstrates everything about it Eduard_Munteanu tgeeky, does it measure ESR? I don't think all LCRs can do it accurately. tgeeky Eduard_Munteanu: it absolutely does tgeeky Eduard_Munteanu: down to 0.01 ohms Eduard_Munteanu Oh, that's good. tgeeky Eduard_Munteanu: the only limitation is that it can't handle caps bigger than 10000 uF Eduard_Munteanu 10 mF seems like a common upper bound for LCRs AFAICT. Eduard_Munteanu It's a pretty hefty value anyway. tgeeky yep tgeeky being able to measure inductors is very nice too tgeeky (that's the primary reason I got it: the$20 transistor tester can do ESR pretty well, but it's awful at inductors) tgeeky the $20 tester is also pretty bad at low capacitor values, below ~ 30 pF Eduard_Munteanu Hm. Do inductors break often? tgeeky no but if you are building e.g. filters, or RF circuits, you often need to know pretty precisely what the inductor value is tgeeky and also the quality factor kmcia especially if you hand wind them :) Eduard_Munteanu Ah. Eduard_Munteanu tgeeky, do you do ham radio stuff? tgeeky Eduard_Munteanu: nope, only higher frequency stuff like ISM band Eduard_Munteanu Hm. I'd think those usually employ very small inductors traced on the board. Eduard_Munteanu You still need to confirm it's working, though. tgeeky sometimes, but when you need to filter the power to those circuits it works fine kmcia Eduard_Munteanu: I'm trying to get my ham license kmcia just bought a couple books Eduard_Munteanu kmcia, hm, I wasn't aware there was a license for ham radio kmcia Eduard_Munteanu: in the USA yes kmcia it has three grades kmcia technician, general, extra dave0x6d restorer: went with a cr2302 after all that. dave0x6d ugh, my phone and tablet don't seem to be working with BLE right now.. kmcia android? kmcia everyone I know who makes a product based on BLE tells me that BLE on Android is a right clusterfuck dave0x6d yeah. dave0x6d well I have to install frigging xcode just to scan for BLE on macOS. kmcia fitbit app is absurdly slow at syncing to my device :/ kmcia on android kmcia it takes like 3 minutes to sync... a step count kmcia a bit more than that, but not like MB and MB of data SpeedEvil zIt's probably doing heartrate too and accelleration and ... kmcia sure kmcia but it still adds up to what should be a fraction of a second to transfer, even over BLE SpeedEvil It doesn't quite track every beat, and it has a fucking annoying cloud service you can't actually get the raw data off of kmcia yeah that part is annoying kmcia at least the new smartwatch supports 3rd party apps kmcia I already sideloaded an app onto mine kmcia it's a Cortex-M4 with a GPU... kmcia strange times SpeedEvil indeed. kmcia but as a result it gets 4 days bat life rather than 1, and this is a HUGE deal because you don't have to charge over night, which means you would lose out on sleep tracking kmcia it also charges pretty quick dave0x6d kmcia: great, macOS isn't working either. kmcia :( newcoder Hi, can we replace Li-polymer battery with li-ion battery of a android-phone? newcoder Do they have same size/ newcoder ? dave0x6d kmcia: my god, apple broke their own tools. https://github.com/currantlabs/ble/issues/58 SpeedEvil newcoder: what are you trying to do tawr kmcia: find the antenna? kmcia antenna on the fitbit? kmcia it does wifi, bluetooth, and NFC newcoder SpeedEvil: Remove lithium-polymer battery from android-phone tawr no kmcia wifi and bt share an antenna SpeedEvil newcoder: why tawr on your lte to wifi kmcia yeah, I think I found the cables I need kmcia ordered them newcoder SpeedEvil: I heard that Li-Ion was better than Li-polymer SpeedEvil newcoder: the chemistries are very similar, and the question makes little sense SpeedEvil Neither is really 'better' - they are different. newcoder Some said that Li-Ion lasted longer SpeedEvil They really don't, that's pretty much the harsh service in the phone. SpeedEvil Do that with any lithium chemistry and it won't last very long ZeroWalker well at least i got the damn stm32 to work with usb now;) SpeedEvil :) Loshki On the subject of cellphone batteries, is anyone else disturbed by the new trend of cellphones without replaceable batteries? Talk about "this phone is only meant to last a year". kmcia Loshki: you can get them replaced at any phone repair shop ZeroWalker now i am trying to make it decode the gb lcd signal somehow, kinda hard when you don't know how fast it actually reads the input as it depends on the instructions kmcia or do it yourself with a few tools ball "USE THE LARGE HAMMER" restorer "new trend"? you mean since the first iPhones (or iPods before that) kmcia it means you can't hot swap batteries kmcia or take them out for paranoia reasons kmcia well not "hot" swap just swap restorer I burned out my first iPod by plugging it into a miswired Firewire port kmcia :< ball Oh here we go: the tinfoil hat memorandum. tgeeky all those criminals going around, miswiring firewire ports restorer tgeeky: it was my fault - plugged the internal connector in one pin off :o tgeeky restorer: ouch! tgeeky damn them for not using a null pin RoChess they do, but cheap cases would not use it kmcia and yeah... wrist accelerometer based step tracking is never that accurat RoChess so restorer cheapened out on case, and paid for it with an iPod kmcia I take my step count as an arbitrary-units general measure of how active i've been kmcia another great thing about fitbit: every device type uses a different, incompatible charging cable kmcia rofl kmcia interestingly this watch measures blood O2 but doesn't display anything about it, maybe for liability reasons tgeeky the day that we can 3d reconstruct a penis simply from the accelerometer recording of the masturbator... that'll be the future kmcia it's just used to make the other algorithms more accurate kmcia lmao cheater wqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqq21 cheater sorry typo cheater i was cleaning my keyboard newcoder SpeedEvil: Li-IOn battery lasts longer than Li-polymer restorer RoChess: technically, it was a great case, but a not-so-great in-bay front port device RoChess restorer, ahh those, yeah it's been a while since i've seen firewire on any case, but then again it's also been a while since i've seen an iPod so i was giving you room on that :) DoYouKnow https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdgzU_84VMg electrobot DoYouKnow just linked to sphere spins, but in wrong plane; around wrong axis - YouTube DoYouKnow that is really coil DoYouKnow *cool restorer RoChess: this was 2003 - iPods still used Firewire, and my motherboard had one port in the back, and extra headers for a front port ball I miss my iPod mini. DoYouKnow looks like a Rodin coil. He calls it a Vortex Coil RoChess restorer, i used them for external HDDs before eSATA took over, and now USB 3.x restorer RoChess: but! Apple didn't ask too many questions about *how* it died, and I didn't offer details beyond "I plugged it in, it got really hot, and now it doesn't work" DoYouKnow biphasic square wave input restorer RoChess: me too restorer I did have to pay to send it back to them, but they sent me a new one with the same engraving RoChess restorer, or did they really mess with ya and used this? -- https://i1.wp.com/www.pctechguide.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/firewire.jpg ball I have two dead Sandisk MP3 players on my desk. RoChess restorer, i come across the occasional case/dock that plays those mean tricks restorer RoChess: I can't remember, but I don't think I would've connected it one-off if it meant there were two pins dangling restorer my case did use those for the USB ports, though >:| RoChess restorer, true, but swapping certain pins can have same effect obviously restorer RoChess: I do remember distinctly that the problem was it was one off restorer maybe on the dock itself, since that was harder to see into the connect restorer to* RoChess restorer, at least u fixed it before u plugged in new iPod ;) RoChess cuz that would have made it a whole different story lol restorer well, yeah, by then I knew what the problem was :P RoChess i do like how the MSI/Gigabyte mainboards i buy come with little adapters, so you can plug all the possible loose case/dock cables into it, and then just insert that one block into mainboard with a null pin protection in place kmcia yes kmcia that's a brilliant invention kmcia I think ASUS have it too restorer that must be fairly new restorer I don't think I've seen that on any of my motherboards RoChess restorer, i've used them for 10+ years, but i do buy the medium+ range of boards from those manufactors but i've seen then on budget ones too now ball Vutral! DocScrutinizer05 well, it tooj me several years (or decades) to finally notice you can unplug those cable screw clamps http://www.generalstandards.com/images/DIN_RAIL_TOP.jpg DocScrutinizer05 at least some of those ball DocScrutinizer05: What cable screw clamps? LuminaxWk eh? those green clamps ? DocScrutinizer05 yep LuminaxWk some of them can LuminaxWk some of them can't ball ...the terminal blocks you mean? LuminaxWk the one that can just turns into a sort of 'clip' terminals LuminaxWk ball: yep Casper usually they are soldered password2 unplug? LuminaxWk Casper: there are some that're sort of 'two parts' LuminaxWk where you can yank the top part with the screw to expose the clamp terminal password2 you mean pull out of the board? Casper if you found one that can be removed, then it will not be reliable long term usually, but that is some experimentation equipement, so reliability isn't an issue LuminaxWk password2: not everything LuminaxWk Casper: yep LuminaxWk the cheap one is usually a clamp fitted to a reverse u bracket coming down on a slightly curved u bracket that clamps as the reverse u pinches the u LuminaxWk s/clamp/screw LuminaxWk I think I have a 3d model of that somewhere.... DocScrutinizer05 http://www.globalsources.com/gsol/I/PCB-terminal/p/sm/1148976428.htm#1148976428 LuminaxWk aaaah..... that reminded me LuminaxWk isn't there also the terminal on terminal type that you screw on your screw-on block onto ? LuminaxWk ............fuck I need lunch break >_> DocScrutinizer05 yo Dawg! heard you like screw on, so we put screw on on your screw on to screw on while you screw on screw ons Evidlo[m] If you charge a completely dead lipo at a reasonable rate, whats the chance it will explode/ignite, realistically? kmcia so does a sputter gun strike a plasma arc between the surface to be deposited on and the material to deposit? kmcia and if so why doesn't this destroy the device under construction... is it because of the low pressure of Ar+ or whatever? DocScrutinizer05 Evidlo[m]: I won't give any estimation since I only have spotty evidence and any of my estimations is worth zilch to you Casper Evidlo[m]: kinda high, the issue is not the discharge itself, but the fact that at low voltage crystal may form, which can pierce the insulation at any later time DocScrutinizer05 Evidlo[m]: I *can* tell you that the cell is basically fscked no matter how you revive it Casper and considering how violent a lipo fire is, I wouln't take the chance SpeedEvil There was recent research that did microscopy on li-ion and found that dendrites don't form until you reverse charge them SpeedEvil you lose some in capacity SpeedEvil Never rely on this. DocScrutinizer05 SpeedEvil: nice. have link? kmcia it's funny that we have billions of people carrying LiPo powered devices right next to their nuts kmcia and yet they're 100x more concerned about ~radiation~ kmcia friend of mine was on an e-bike where the bats caught fire Casper kmcia: some even said to me that they emit nuclear radiation, even when off... Casper ... some are a lost cause kmcia fortunately there is a simple measure to take in this situation: RUN kmcia Casper: ;__; kmcia they probably do emit tiny amounts of radiation, like EVERYTHING ELSE ON THIS PLANET kmcia dumb hippies here keep organizing against cell towers and smart meters SpeedEvil DocScrutinizer05: sorry, can't find it DocScrutinizer05 no, I heard bananas are worse ;-P DocScrutinizer05 SpeedEvil: no worries DocScrutinizer05 thanks kmcia I read about some ultra left people who voted for trump because "he'll uncover the truth about chemtrails" DocScrutinizer05 ritfl SpeedEvil It was a small study, just one battery type jlf kmcia: it sounds like you think stupidity is somehow correlated with left vs. right...? ball Nobody left (ultra or otherwise) voted for that asshat. DocScrutinizer05 I *think* there were also volume expansion issues in LiIon with the cell chemistry doing its thing? Casper kmcia: smart meter actually does seems to be real, there is some unscientific proof, with zero medical backing password2 kmcia, how else am i supposed to keep my lipo warm? DocScrutinizer05 or did my memory make that up right now? ball password2: Stick it in the oven. password2 ACTION sticks ball in oven Casper but many reported headache and went to their doctor, only to find out that they replaced the meters right before the headaches started. So, could be bad timing, or it could be real, but sure thing is: there is lies everywhere Casper like, they claim 0.01W transmission power, the truth is: 1-5W peak transmission power, and just a burst of transmission here and there, which average at the 0.01W... ball 5W at what frequency? kmcia jlf: which party is Trump from? password2 ball 7 DocScrutinizer05 err what you're talking about? kmcia and which party are these people kmcia and so kmcia maybe that relates to why this is an interesting thing? ball ACTION grins kmcia jesus man jlf kmcia: i'm sorry but i can't parse that word salad kmcia okay kmcia let's break it down real easy Evidlo[m] the person next door is listening to really loud animu music kmcia some people voted for trump. those people are very left. trump is very right. those people voted for him for a specific very odd reason. kmcia that is all LuminaxWk Casper: smart meter? headache? LuminaxWk ACTION tinfoilhats ball kmcia: Source? kmcia i DON'T think intelligence particularly correlates with party affiliation and if you listen long enough you'll hear me make fun of idiots on all sides Casper LuminaxWk: it is not excluded medically that it can happend kmcia I do think that party affiliation correlates with willingness to accept evidence and reality, but that's a different thing from intelligence per se DoYouKnow they're just Frequency modulation, afaik kmcia ball: some article I read a while ago and probably can't find Casper most smart meters are installed illegally DoYouKnow some kind of frequency modulation maybe with a bit of phase DoYouKnow most of them LuminaxWk I......... don't actually know what the hell we're talking about LuminaxWk I saw smart meter, I saw headache DoYouKnow smart meters ball LuminaxWk: Nothing. It's all bollocks. DoYouKnow and their emissions LuminaxWk which sounds like tinfoilhat :3 LuminaxWk ...what emissions? EMI ? Casper unfortunatelly, the gouvernement don't care, and nobody can fill a complain beside ham radio, and the CRTC/FCC just say: use another band DoYouKnow RF LuminaxWk right LuminaxWk and people don't carry RF transceiver in their pockets all day ? ball I'm a ham and I for one welcome my new smartmeter. ethos I wish I were a gam ethos ham* LuminaxWk squeezed between two buns ? DocScrutinizer05 BACON kmcia look at what's happening in the us embassy in cuba before you write off tin foil hats :P DoYouKnow ethos: I took the test when I was 27 LuminaxWk I'm sorry but....牡蠣！ DoYouKnow 26 or 27 DoYouKnow O DoYouKnow I'm now 30 LuminaxWk ACTION googleimagesearch DocScrutinizer05 how likely is it smart meters are using the (fading out) 2G for internet access? LuminaxWk ah, here's one http://img.ltn.com.tw/Upload/food/page/2016/10/15/161015-4723-0-h2ZKM.jpg DocScrutinizer05 since only RAT I know had 2W bursts is 2G GSM ball DocScrutinizer05: Hopefully they're not accessing the Internet. DocScrutinizer05 then they do M2M via 2G? DoYouKnow I was reading the NSA publication (public domain) called The Next Wave. They have a new edition out that talks about device-to-device (direct) 5G communications modes LuminaxWk Sonic attack........ hrmph kmcia sonic attack done most likely using microwave auditory effect and radars LuminaxWk that's what you get for building a non-accoustic-isolated building ethos DoYouKnow: Oh neat. I'm a still a fresh grad, but wanted to do more microelectronics reading before RF kmcia it's not acoustic DoYouKnow ethos: it's all connected kmcia they're beaming microwaves into the building, maybe to mess with people on purpose, maybe to stimulate passive bugs (see: The Thing, or any of NSA's ANGRYNEIGHBOR devices) SpeedEvil kmcia: bullshit. DoYouKnow ethos: good thing jlf some kind of audio-vibratory physio-molecular transport device???? kmcia just make sure you know that your Al helmet doesn't block all ~government~ frequencies http://web.archive.org/web/20100708230258/http://people.csail.mit.edu/rahimi/helmet/ SpeedEvil kmcia: It's an embassy, it's going to have RF detectors out the ass. kmcia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microwave_auditory_effect SpeedEvil kmcia: any possibly human dangerous signal is going to be some orders of magnitude stronger than signals of concern. LuminaxWk fuck....... stop playing videos/audios suddenly SpeedEvil And will light it up like a christmas tree kmcia SpeedEvil: *shrug* I have no retort to that, but it's a big assumption on your part that these detectors are present and work properly and can't be fooled by frequency hopping etc LuminaxWk if I had wanted to watch video I'd go to fuckin' youtube -.- DocScrutinizer05 ACTION yawns and waves, happy Halloween? kmcia I don't claim to know for sure what's happening... nobody should kmcia except the people doing it Viper-7 DocScrutinizer05: LTE Cat M1 here afaik DocScrutinizer05 Viper-7: has no bursts afaik DoYouKnow unlike some sounds where if you eavesdrop with someone wearing headphones it can bother you but not the guy wearing headphones kmcia btw not unrelatedly I want to build a broadband microwave detector for my house kmcia might use a cheapo SDR LuminaxWk oh hey Viper-7 LuminaxWk you long time no see :3 Viper-7 DocScrutinizer05: shrug, wont pretend to know any details on how it works, but its what most modern smart meters use Viper-7 LuminaxWk: sup :) Viper-7 been enjoying my time between jobs, playing minecraft heh DoYouKnow related to crystals DoYouKnow and phonons ethos kmcia: haven't worked with SDRs before. are they complicated? LuminaxWk mmm SpeedEvil Frequency hopping to keep this sort of signal secret is like a tank trying to tiptoe across a field of gravel. LuminaxWk btw, you killed your ali search page ? pfred1 what's an SDR? LuminaxWk Ali search has been shitty lately DocScrutinizer05 then again, here power meters are frequently found in cellar so they rather will do IP over Powerline to next power distribution than any RF ethos pfred1: software defined radio pfred1 ethos I think I saw one of those once Viper-7 my old work did, it was hosted on my dev server there - when i left they shut that whole server down Viper-7 i'll be getting a new server once i start this new job, so it will be back Viper-7 but not for like a month Viper-7 i could host it from home if you really want it back, but bleh Luminax-Work blergh Luminax-Work stupid internet DoYouKnow so, has anyone here toyed with varicap diodes? DoYouKnow any words of wisdom to offer? ethos pfred1: yeah i keep seeing the term thrown around everywhere, but haven't gotten a chance to play with them. think a lot of labs are starting to use them too LuminaxWk Viper-7: OK cool ;) pfred1 ethos I went to a ham club open house and one guy had one LuminaxWk I was trying to find CP2102 yesterday but the search turns up with CH340G >_> fucking sellers ball DoYouKnow: I've seen them used on radio receiver kits. Viper-7 heh LuminaxWk "CH340G replacement for CP2102" LuminaxWk no, motherfucker, I DO NOT WANT Casper report as spam Viper-7 meh, CH340G does me fine LuminaxWk ohhhhh..... LuminaxWk Viper-7: that might be so Viper-7 they're allowed to use related keywords LuminaxWk >_> DoYouKnow ball: supposedly all you have to do is apply a reverse bias and that changes the capacitance between on the level of the reverse bias DoYouKnow but forward bias doesn't work LuminaxWk soooo I can advertise for '96 Used Laptop, replcament for Apple iBook ? ;P LuminaxWk *replacement DocScrutinizer05 DoYouKnow: yes, and what's the question? ethos Anyone here ever make any ICs? LuminaxWk make.... DocScrutinizer05 not yet ethos as in, layout Viper-7 LuminaxWk: yup LuminaxWk closest to 'making' an IC is Flea86's FPGA ethos Not doping the wafer :P DoYouKnow DocScrutinizer05: what effect would it have if I varied the capacitance with complex harmonics? Casper DocScrutinizer05: don't mind him, he's... weird.... his mute most likelly expired and will come back soon enought DoYouKnow like basically a completely harmonic filled frequency domain DocScrutinizer05 DoYouKnow: sorry? Viper-7 LuminaxWk: so like, https://www.aliexpress.com/item/CP2102-GMR-CP2102-QFN28/32597286901.html ? LuminaxWk ethos: so you're talking circuit layout ? LuminaxWk Viper-7: yep DoYouKnow DocScrutinizer05: well, instead of applying a constant bias for a constant capacitance, feed it a waveform with a bias with many harmonics ZeroWalker you are back doctor viper, i got my stm32 kinda working, do i get a medal? LuminaxWk but possibly one already mounted pfred1 Viper-7 how do you get those nice neat short links? DoYouKnow can I do quantum nondemolition detection that way? ethos LuminaxWk: IC layout down to transistors, not PCB with discrete components Viper-7 pfred1: delete everything after the ? Viper-7 :P pfred1 ha ha LuminaxWk ethos: that's....wafer level Viper-7 bare chips: https://www.aliexpress.com/w/wholesale-cp2102-qfn28.html?SortType=price_asc&g=y&SearchText=cp2102+qfn28 pfred1 OMG I'm at 81% with this build i hope it doesn't blow up on me DocScrutinizer05 DoYouKnow: the varicap changes capacitance proportional to applied voltage, of whatever waveform, up to the frequency limit of the varicap which prolly is determined by how fast you can charge/discharge the capacitor LuminaxWk hmmmmmm might as well remake the jig and make a custom PCB for the Serial UART LuminaxWk and then slap a USB-A connector Viper-7 when you say already mounted, you mean like this? https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1Pcs-6Pin-USB-2-0-to-TTL-UART-Module-Serial-Converter-CP2102-Replace-Ft232-Adapter-Module/32827565995.html DoYouKnow DocScrutinizer05: the capacitance charging time and discharge time is related to the capacitance which is given by the applied voltage Viper-7 lol at "replace ft232" on that one :P DoYouKnow in reverse bias DocScrutinizer05 so? LuminaxWk errr type B pfred1 I can't open up a browser right now LuminaxWk yes, that LuminaxWk and I couldn't agree more LuminaxWk I for one will never use FTDI again :3 Viper-7 or theres the ones with micro socket Viper-7 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/CJMCU-CP2102-MICRO-USB-to-UART-TTL-Module-6Pin-Serial-Converter-Uart-STC-Replace-FT232-For/32799908579.html Viper-7 i have a few of those pfred1 LuminaxWk nevah! ethos LuminaxWk: thought that was more die-level? while wafer level is process engineering with doping, photolithography, etc LuminaxWk Viper-7: I'd rather not LuminaxWk our problem currently is the USB TYPE A connector broke off a lot pfred1 they did that kill code thing didn't they? LuminaxWk imagine what'll happen with Micro B ? ZeroWalker can you use mikroProg with usb for stm32? LuminaxWk our operators belong in WWE ring >_> Viper-7 how about pl2303 ? Viper-7 then theres the neater prefab cables https://www.aliexpress.com/item/PL2303-PL2303HX-USB-To-UART-TTL-Cable-Module-4p-4-Pin-RS232-Converter-Serial-Adapter-Cable/32834894166.html LuminaxWk Viper-7: that's what's currently being used Viper-7 ZeroWalker: why? LuminaxWk it's a long port USB type A with the chip et al embedded inside a molded case on the USB plug side Viper-7 so what i just linked :P LuminaxWk causing it to be heavier than your normal USB plug ZeroWalker what do you mean why;o? LuminaxWk ah.... yes LuminaxWk EXACTLY that Viper-7 i mean why would you want to use mikroprog pfred1 it ain't heavy it's my USB dongle ZeroWalker is there alternatives? except arduino LuminaxWk causing the USB port to bend and break :\ Viper-7 ZeroWalker: mbed or libopencm3 Viper-7 but whats wrong with arduino? ZeroWalker ah, which do you prefer? LuminaxWk oh speaking of Arduino ZeroWalker well i just find it kinda weird Viper-7 arduino :P LuminaxWk you know if the Nucleo board is compatible with STMDuino lib ? Viper-7 stmduino only supports the F103 afaik Viper-7 mbed supports most of them tho LuminaxWk MBed sure does Viper-7 ZeroWalker: you can use arduino without using arduino for much :P Viper-7 eg https://github.com/Viper-7/TouchScreen/ Viper-7 my .ino sketch there just forwards the setup and loop calls to my seperate library LuminaxWk so... hmmm.......the micro usb version seems to be the best bet Viper-7 and i use an external editor from there tawr ACTION smacks Viper-7 LuminaxWk at least if that's broken I can just replace it with new micro socket Viper-7 LuminaxWk: ESP-01 and go wireless :P LuminaxWk ah........ LuminaxWk that would require me digging into C# code Viper-7 even those bt serial adapters LuminaxWk which I don't fucking want to :| Viper-7 then it should be transparent ZeroWalker ah LuminaxWk I mean I already have the source code reverse compiled courtesy of dotPeek LuminaxWk but it's horrendous >_> tawr Viper-7: i pulled a dumbass move Viper-7 lol, wutnow tawr remember how I was all into stm's and went to buy them and a few different stlinks and all that? ZeroWalker well i have mostly just been trying to read the gb signals via it, so just digitalRead, but i think it's far too slow if i do any kind of output as well, so might not work out;d Viper-7 vaguely :P tawr i was like why aren't they in yet, it's been a few weeks, i forgot my aliexpress pass so i was being lazy and not tracking, finally get that fixed tawr i never pressed purchase. Viper-7 LuminaxWk: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1pcs-HC-06-Bluetooth-serial-pass-through-module-wireless-serial-communication-from-machine-Wireless-HC06-for/32583611885.html Viper-7 tawr: lmao pfred1 tawr a minor detail LuminaxWk no no, the problem is not the UART side LuminaxWk it's the USB side Viper-7 ZeroWalker: you can use the port registers directly instead if you need more speed LuminaxWk A PC program talks to the serial LuminaxWk THAT I don't care to dig into Viper-7 LuminaxWk: then they only need a tiny usb bluetooth dongle on the usb side - or nothing at all if thir pc already has bt ZeroWalker port registers? LuminaxWk oh, the bluetooth dongle presents itself as serial ? Viper-7 yup LuminaxWk hmmmm that's interesting LuminaxWk or I can also grab two ESP modules and do an ESP-to-ESP passthrough ? LuminaxWk although I'm suspecting the jig has some burned out wiring/components caused by the connection of an Ammeter Port jumper wire into Voltage Meter ports... Viper-7 ZeroWalker: http://www.stm32duino.com/viewtopic.php?t=1220 LuminaxWk the firework was spectacular, I heard Viper-7 GPIOA->regs->IDR returns the complete 16-bit value of PORTA in a single call LuminaxWk y'know... what part of 'Don't Fucking Touch The Jumper' can they not understand ? ZeroWalker ah Viper-7 http://wiki.stm32duino.com/index.php?title=API might be better docs pfred1 LuminaxWk there's a guy on YouTube that blows multimeters up his channel is a riot Viper-7 ZeroWalker: or if you need even faster, you can do DMA ZeroWalker how fast is the serial output btw? as it's nice for outputting debug info, but i noticed it slows down everything a lot LuminaxWk pfred1: that's showmanship LuminaxWk this is just dumb ZeroWalker as long as i can get around 8-12mhz of gpio read speed, i should be fine i think pfred1 he'll take htem up to 15,000 volts if that's what it takes LuminaxWk especially considering that they're supposed to CONSULT engineering for jig setup and all that LuminaxWk but noooo.... "I CAN HAS BRAIN *plug wires* *BOOM*" pfred1 most fail around 3,000 or so LuminaxWk anyway, I've ranted enough Skree no keep going i was finding it entertasining Viper-7 https://pastebin.com/bbBFMehh was my code to output serial data at very high speed for a large LED matrix (over 1000 full frame updates per second to provide dimming on the raw shift-register based display) LuminaxWk kinda a waste of breath though, cause no matter even if I confront my boss with this, he'll just defend his precious golden goose -.- Skree entertaining* Viper-7 LuminaxWk: as for ESP to ESP - kinda sorta - you'll need custom code on the ESPs, and have to manage pairing them somehow LuminaxWk one as softAP and one as WIFI client ? Viper-7 yeah tawr ^ 3 lines of code in arduino Viper-7 but they'll have to be preconfigured as pairs with the ssid/pass etc tawr actually i think it's already an example LuminaxWk well not quite 3 lines, but close enough LuminaxWk tawr: it is ZeroWalker don't quite get the pullup pulldown thing Viper-7 as opposed to the bt option, where you just pair with whatever dongle you like, and enter the default pin of 0000 :P tawr there is already an example in the arduino ide when you load the esp module LuminaxWk anyway, I'll just buy a boatload of these CP2102 LuminaxWk and charge my boss a 50% markup LuminaxWk ...too cheap ? Viper-7 ZeroWalker: gpio pins can be driven strongly high or low, left floating, or pulled weakly high or low - eg if you have a button that shorts the line to ground, you'd use a pull-up so the line is normally high, but the button can drag the line down to ground, without shorting out the pin driver ZeroWalker oh Viper-7 basically its a ~50k resistor between a pin driver and the pin itself LuminaxWk or like I2C where you're required to pull it high, lest the I2C peripheral goes bonker Viper-7 so when the button connects the line to ground while the pull-up is applied, the 50k resistor drops the voltage across itself, and the total current flowing through the button is still negligible Viper-7 as opposed to the voltage being dropped across the pin driver, which could easily burn it out Viper-7 lol, just had a kid show up to the door for halloween Viper-7 i havent been truck or treated in years Viper-7 he was in his school uniform too, such scary. tawr wtf tawr it's not haloween Viper-7 is here Hooloovo0 there's still 10 minutes before then Viper-7 3:47PM 31st October tawr trick or treating is done at night on the 21st tawr once the sun goes down Viper-7 halloween is the 31st, but shrug Viper-7 i think he was just walking home from school and figured he'd try hitting people up for candy :P tawr oh Viper-7 look at mah new lapping plates: https://i.imgur.com/1daA8vd.jpg or https://i.imgur.com/1daA8vdh.jpg if you have slow internetz LuminaxWk mmmm LuminaxWk next year I'll maybe put RGB pumpkin somewhere tawr LuminaxWk: i showed you mine right, can't recall LuminaxWk huh ? LuminaxWk don't think so tawr i made the best pumpkin evar tawr with ws2812b + arduino Viper-7 LuminaxWk: yeah, year before last we had a pumpkin carving contest at work, with little mini pumpkins Viper-7 i stuffed LED lighting inside and pwned everyone :P tawr https://i.imgur.com/9MrrTyEh.jpg LuminaxWk Viper-7 tawr fuck you, mine's still better Viper-7 LuminaxWk ooooooh LuminaxWk Better Than Raw Viper-7 mine was fairly similar, but red eyes and orange mouth Viper-7 with some tissues stuffed inside as a diffuser LuminaxWk ACTION blasts some Midnight Sun tawr i used the plasticball i use for everything Viper-7 https://scontent.fsyd4-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/12187848_454338808101488_1465581608170478979_n.jpg?oh=e29f05382ea0964028eb1d86d7cdd6c9&oe=5A6B1CE7 tawr i like the far right one tawr this year tawr i'm not feeling it Viper-7 dammit tawr tawr ? Viper-7 you made me realise how skinny i was back then, or how much weight i've gained in the past year :P ^7heo Viper-7: fat or? Viper-7 meh, i'll dox myself then: https://scontent.fsyd4-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/10409060_454338841434818_6897468194985299786_n.jpg?oh=1bd46e554630e169171648d8508cadd6&oe=5A6CF719 Viper-7 now: https://imgur.com/SfkVIeV tawr that's a goddamn lie tawr we all know you're 3 aliexpress vendors stacked on top of each other in a trenchcoat dave0x6d WHY ARE ALL MY BUTTON CELL BATTERIES DEAD?! dave0x6d seriously tawr so we know for a fact those pictures aren't you Viper-7 :P dave0x6d last two were 0.5V dave0x6d this one is 0V. Viper-7 because you touch yourself at night LuminaxWk hmmm password4 moin LuminaxWk Viper-7: you have the same inflation rate as me >_> dave0x6d Can I remove the CMOS battery from a live machine? LuminaxWk dave0x6d: yes dave0x6d LuminaxWk: what does it even store anyway? Isn't a lot of EFI on EEPROMs? dave0x6d *EFI settings dave0x6d or is the CMOS battery really just for RTC? Viper-7 LuminaxWk: about 3 years before the first photo i was much larger than i am now, so eh LuminaxWk CMOS battery only becomes relevant once power is off, it powers the BIOS config storage thingamajigga so they store your data LuminaxWk and clock setting LuminaxWk and et ceteras LuminaxWk huh? so O I O progression ? Viper-7 yah heh LuminaxWk interesting Casper dave0x6d: the battery will hold the clock and the bios settings LuminaxWk I've been steadily inflating :| LuminaxWk anyway, it's break time finally! Viper-7 all i have to say about that, is that weed does wonders for losing weight :P dave0x6d Casper: aren't settings in EEPROM? Otherwise, resetting UEFI settings would be trivial. Casper usually, there is a resistor from 5V to the battery via a diode that provide power when the pc is plugged or powered on (depending on what the engineer did) Viper-7 since i stopped smoking it ive been packing it back on Casper dave0x6d: there is no more eeprom on pc, all flash based now, and no, settings are in ram, battery backupped password4 omg Viper-7 , you look a lot like i imagined you would look Casper the password however may be in flash, but settings are in ram Viper-7 heh Viper-7 not sure if thats a compliment or an insult :P password4 :O HoolooBOO flash is a kind of eeprom password4 also , yer a skinny bastard password4 Casper: i only flash little kids and grandmas dave0x6d Casper: okay so I never power down. Casper but be carefull Viper-7 at my worst, about 10 years ago, https://i.imgur.com/M39s0Af.jpg Casper the battery is kinda spring loaded Casper it may take off and go short something password4 well congrats on the weight loss Viper-7 ty, cept now im packing it back on >.< pfred1 Viper-7 stop eating Viper-7 its not what i eat, its what i do Viper-7 or lack thereof :P Viper-7 the past two years i've been working from home, basically roll out of bed into my chair, then back again pfred1 get one of them treadmill desks Viper-7 the most exercise i get is walking outside for a smoke pfred1 a hampster wheel Viper-7 heh password4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7FioTdZaEk electrobot password4 just linked to Hamster Wheel Standing Desk - YouTube Viper-7 i used to play a lot of DDR, which is a great workout pfred1 password4 all my great inventions always done already password4 pfred1: thats a good sign Viper-7 but i broke a toe a few weeks ago and while its pretty much fine now, i dont want to stress it as i'll be walking a fair way to/from work for this new job next month Viper-7 so while i want to get into shape for that, i'm limited in what i can do pfred1 walking is good Viper-7 lmao at the hamster wheel desk linux_probe typical "work" desk pfred1 here's hamster man https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=isHOIYsfBTs electrobot pfred1 just linked to Shooda Noed Beter - Smokin' Hamster - YouTube Viper-7 next step, power the pc from it :P Casper Viper-7: what about some playstation motion games? like that gladiator game? Casper with 2 wand it get kinda quite intense Casper specially when you really do it pfred1 I might have been there that day Casper ... my shoulder hurt just by thinking about it again :D pfred1 dang they didn't show it fire on the video password4 with running you might get 100w or a few minutes password4 so a steady jog should be able to power a laptop pfred1 running is bad for you Viper-7 there are atom laptops in the <20W range (including display Viper-7 ) password4 whats the deal whith the hamster wheel pfred1 ? pfred1 Viper-7 how big a PSU is in your PC? pfred1 password4 it is a catapult HrdwrBoB pfred1: it's like HrdwrBoB 15cmx15cm x 10cm HrdwrBoB approx? pfred1 they used to shoot pumpkins wiht them until they almost killed someone HrdwrBoB ;) password4 pfred1: does the wheel tention it? Viper-7 pfred1: i dont have a desktop pfred1 yeah it drew the spring down that is the human powered catagory Viper-7 my laptops have a 72W adapter and 40W adapter password4 category? was it for a challenge? pfred1 +Viper-7 you're a roadwarrior? Viper-7 noep password4 o they prolly draw 30-40W? pfred1 password4 to see who could throw a pumpkin the furthest Viper-7 had 2x i7 desktops and they both fried, so now using the two laptops with external monitor + kb + mouse instead Viper-7 need to get a new pc, just been too broke lately Viper-7 again, looking forward to my new job for that :) pfred1 I'm getting a new PC pfred1 well new to me password4 pfred1: ah , sounds fun Viper-7 after rent, bills, food, travel expenses, etc - new job will give me about$1000 per week profit Viper-7 pays about *4 times* as much as my last job pfred1 password4 it was OK mostly it was an excuse to get drunk password4 when you start with yar new jub , Viper-7 ? Viper-7 4th december pfred1 password4 the event started as a bar bet or argument or soemthing Viper-7 so yeah still over a month away - living on government welfare till then which barely pays bills Viper-7 less than 20% of what my new wage will be Viper-7 but eh, gets me through pfred1 this job maybe you'll learn to save a bit? password4 yeah , put away $500 a week :D pfred1 it never hurts to put some money away Viper-7 yeah - well i have a bunch of stuff that needs spending money on up front - new pc, new car, etc - so i'll be living on about the same wage and just dumping cash into those to start Viper-7 then at least the plan is to stay that way, and just put the money away instead - but we'll see how that works out :P pfred1 meh a PC shouldn't cost much Viper-7 neither should a car (i dont need anything fancy) Viper-7 i paid$1k for my last car linux_probe with all the junk chinesium parts in vehicles, they shouldnt cost no more tha 5K at best pfred1 I built this dumb program over and it's doing the exact same thing linux_probe must be the dumb operator =p pfred1 well it used to work password4 well its likely to be a logic flaw pfred1 linux_probe but yeah if i just knew how to fix it I'd be good password4 or something is behaving differently than you thought it did pfred1 I got no idea why it can't find these files pfred1 or rather why it is not looking in the right place for them linux_probe in the wrong place. need registered in registry, wrong version? pfred1 no they're in the right place linux_probe if linuz missing symlinks pfred1 the program just looks in the wrong place norkle Intel(R) Core(TM) i3-7100 CPU @ 3.90GHz YEEE! pfred1 snazzy restorer gonna put together a PC fan with some batteries, and USB charging board, and a boost converter in a bit here restorer if I can tap into the 5V out without removing the USB output port, I can use it as a powerbank too :D LuminaxWk back LuminaxWk a PC shouldn't cost much... LuminaxWk my last PC cost AUD3700 ;P Viper-7 fookin hell Viper-7 said balls to it, just went and played a few rounds of DDR Viper-7 daymn that game gets hard fast Viper-7 got like 5 songs in before my foot started getting sore - will find out tomorrow if i regret that, but hey pfred1 how did you break your toe? LuminaxWk mmmmmmm muscle cramps Viper-7 nothing dramatic, dropped something off the table, i spun around fast to catch it, little toe hooked around the leg of a chair, which clamped itself up against the table Viper-7 unstoppable force meet immovable object pfred1 that would do it I suppose LuminaxWk the shattering of the universe as we know it Viper-7 or just the shattering of my little toe :P LuminaxWk there was an interesting story about how the japanese word, borrowed from the chinese word, meaning contradiction came about... but let's not talk about that Viper-7 this was about a month ago, stopped hurting to walk on it about a week ago, and yeah, just got a slight twinge while playing ddr when i used it in certain ways (jumping and landing) Viper-7 nothing much, but i wont push it :P pfred1 gdb is never very enlightening for me LuminaxWk play Drum Mania ;D Viper-7 lol LuminaxWk intense double-pedal action ! Viper-7 doesnt quite count :P LuminaxWk meh LuminaxWk still a workout :3 linux_probe double pedal action to me is using right for for gas and brake at the same time linux_probe foot** LuminaxWk ah, drifter LuminaxWk only works for rear wheel drive cars LuminaxWk or 4wd, to a certain extent linux_probe I only drift on accident Viper-7 neh, just rev matching LuminaxWk as long as you start the motion with handbrakes on tight corner Viper-7 engine braking ftw LuminaxWk otherwise that mofo just won't spin :| linux_probe drifting a 90's 3/4 van loaded with tools isn't recomended Viper-7 but not if you abuse shit out of your clutch kmcia lmao linux_probe 3/4 ton :)) LuminaxWk linux_probe: I drifted a Nissan C20 once at 120km/h LuminaxWk 90 degree angle LuminaxWk almost rolled like a box ;P Viper-7 i read it wrong at first too, but brake and gas *with the same foot*, not just brake and gas at the same time :P linux_probe I put my 1982 3/4 chevy van at a 45 angle sldie ont he xway once Viper-7 aka, the other foot is busy working the clutch Viper-7 otherwise known as heel & toe LuminaxWk Viper-7: brake and gas at the same time doesn't work :p linux_probe some assclown in a ford van swerved directkly infront of me Viper-7 LuminaxWk: sure it does LuminaxWk well.... sure linux_probe needless to say my brakes worked good LuminaxWk but that's not the way to do it Viper-7 while braking, put the clutch in, drop it back a gear, blip the throttle to match the revs, and release the clutch LuminaxWk you don't just double slam the pedal LuminaxWk or to put it in meme form "One does not simply.... double slam the pedal" linux_probe I recovered it after sliding from 70mph to 40mph and way sideways Viper-7 extra braking thanks to engine compression - even reduced brake wear etc LuminaxWk mmhmm linux_probe I thought for sure there was no recovery, considering I was across two lanes LuminaxWk that puts quite a bit of strain on the gear box and the engine's pistons, though Viper-7 nothing they cant handle linux_probe lucky I like to drive one handed, had left hand at noon on the wheel LuminaxWk but eh, most engine are well equipped to handle that Viper-7 if you do it wrong and fail to match revs, it'll wear your clutch linux_probe it more or less whipped itself straight Viper-7 otherwise eh LuminaxWk but seriously, 4WDs just won't slide >_> LuminaxWk well... maybe a little bit Drakonite they will, but they won't drive the way RWD will linux_probe ACTION takes LuminaxWk out doing donuts in a 4wd Drakonite er Drakonite they will, but they won't driFT the way RWD will LuminaxWk yep LuminaxWk that's where the handbrake comes in :3 linux_probe having locked/spool rear end helps :) Viper-7 ACTION has been in an AWD drifing :P Drakonite of course, just look at rally racing, where they are all driving 4WD and driving around corners... Viper-7 drifting even LuminaxWk AWD ? linux_probe bind it hard enough and the back end will go away Viper-7 4WD but LSD not open/locked diffs LuminaxWk ah LuminaxWk I for once thought that was meant to somehow be FWD Viper-7 all wheel drive :P LuminaxWk which just basically won't drift Viper-7 eg WRX, lancer evo, etc LuminaxWk well.... there's the handbrake, but it's just not the same :3 Viper-7 thats powersliding, not drifting :P LuminaxWk hmmm ? I thought Evo's locked diff ? Drakonite growing up I got my permit just before a heavy winter, so one of my first official 'driving lessons' was my dad taking me out and wanting me to intentionally go in to a slide around a corner to understand what that was like Viper-7 nope Viper-7 maybe in rally they do, but not the consumer ones linux_probe dual handle is what we ran on rail buggies in the 90's LuminaxWk oh...hmmm ? Drakonite Disappointingly the primary thing I learned was that I was naturally very good at correcting slides :-/ linux_probe sometimes you need to apply both fast Viper-7 they have some fancy computer controlled hydraulic LSD LuminaxWk so if that nuts won't drift properly without engaging the handbrake, fat chance it's a locked diff ? Viper-7 they can redistribute torque front vs back linux_probe because feet were too busy on the clutch ans gas Viper-7 at least in like evo 7 and up iirc LuminaxWk aaah LuminaxWk I'm talking Evo III :3 Viper-7 evo 3 was great linux_probe ACTION still recalls jumping a a huge road cutout in WV Viper-7 but you dont need a locked diff to drift Viper-7 its all about how you start it tho linux_probe came up the hill side about 60mph LuminaxWk no, what I meant is, won't the locked diff makes it hard to drift using your conventional RWD method ? linux_probe the cutout was way wider than we though, about drove out tailbones and arses out or mouths LuminaxWk brake->shiftdown->rev match+brake Viper-7 locked diff makes it easier to drift, but is terrible for normal road driving :P linux_probe was like 60+ airborne 15mph forwad and 30mph slam into other side LuminaxWk h-mmm.... guess my technique was wrong then Viper-7 and yeah, with a locked diff you can just power-over into a drift linux_probe gravity and momentum won LuminaxWk but eh......... 14 years or so ago story Viper-7 with a lsd you need to throw it into the corner, use inertia to drop traction LuminaxWk I know drift with a bike :3 LuminaxWk *now Viper-7 to be fair - i cant drift 4wd or awd, takes skills, practice and mostly, balls. Drakonite proper speed, proper timing with steer and blipping the throttle, any RWD car (with reasonable power) will go in to a drift, regardless of differential Viper-7 but i've been riding shotgun with someone who could LuminaxWk I've drifted 4WD but not at the speed 'recommended' LuminaxWk a little bit slower Viper-7 the slower you go, the harder it is to drift properly LuminaxWk yep linux_probe ^^ Drakonite going slower than recommended for a drift makes it more difficult to drift as well as more difficult to control linux_probe peanut tires and big HP LuminaxWk and don't try to drift on wet surface if you don't know how to drift properly on dry surface LuminaxWk my friend learned this the hard way... linux_probe haha LuminaxWk cost a Nissan SX180 Viper-7 hah kmcia totaled? LuminaxWk and a few broken bones linux_probe all my accidental drifts have been on wet pavement linux_probe so far 0 wrecks Drakonite I used to try to drift my boat of a FWD car in the winter, but the thing was just too damn stable :-/ LuminaxWk kmcia: it dropped into the sea below the cliff road.... he was lucky to roll out linux_probe except the van one, dry pavement, I flat spotted 4 6 ply tires real bad LuminaxWk luckily the road was very wide Viper-7 i went drifting in my old commodore (V6 RWD) in the wet - was all fun and games for over an hour, until i pushed it too far and spun it down a suburban street Viper-7 luckily managed to keep it roughly down the middle of the road so no harm, but yeah that was enough of that, at least for that night :P DocScrutinizer05 Commodore? cool linux_probe lold Viper-7 only time i've really genuinely lost control of a car LuminaxWk Holden ? Viper-7 yeah LuminaxWk ooo fancy pants Viper-7 http://cdn.digiads.com.au/car_ad_photos/digiads_car_ads_99235_1.jpg tawr lol tawr i went into the wall at 80 in my turbo 240 years ago LuminaxWk you're THAT old, tawr? :P kmcia LuminaxWk: holy shit Drakonite turbo... horse and buggy? Viper-7 turbo == carrot on a stick? tawr flatfoot sidestepped and snapped a cv under full boost tawr was fun. crushed the quarter panel on my cherry hatch, my friend told me he'd make it better DocScrutinizer05 meh, thought you meant this one http://www.roadsmile.com/image-model/1768-opel-commodore_engine_18.jpg.html kmcia three friends of mine went into an embankment on a freeway at 70 mph or so tawr and spray painted a shocker in the crushed fender kmcia they all survived kmcia but with less intestines than they started with :P tawr which then became it's name, because i'd fucking smoke everyone at the strip with it Viper-7 DocScrutinizer05: heh kmcia this was the result of driver fatigue LuminaxWk Opel made commodore? :o tawr also lol LuminaxWk no i'm not old tawr but i've been doing this a long time LuminaxWk okay ;P Drakonite tawr, 240 years certainly is a long time LuminaxWk eyup tawr not really though. to an immortal it's a blink of an eye tawr perception blurs across the decades Viper-7 https://i.imgur.com/15JzIge.jpg was my car LuminaxWk ah...."The Man From Earth" DocScrutinizer05 LuminaxWk: sure https://www.autoscout24.de/auto/opel/opel-commodore/ jeffrey3234 Is there a course anywhere that teaches all the basics of electonics? Voltage, current, watts, resitance, what all the basic componants do, how to measure all with multimeters, etc.? Viper-7 tuned ECU, suspension package out of the much heavier V8 version, potenza S03 tires (basically race grade with tread cut in them, they didnt last a damn but oh boy were they fun) LuminaxWk jeffrey3234: beside university, you mean ? jeffrey3234 exactly tawr jeffrey3234: topic tawr youtube LuminaxWk eeeeh.... LuminaxWk book is your best bet, and youtube Drakonite jeffrey3234, supposedly the links in the topic should cover a lot of that, or there are several youtube channels that do basics tutorials tawr LuminaxWk: fuck you i'm faster LuminaxWk pfft LuminaxWk I put a lot more emotions into it ;P Drakonite I put a lot more words in to it! LuminaxWk btw... how many people in this channel have watched that movie I mentioned LuminaxWk hrmm Viper-7 i put a lot more cbf into it! Viper-7 ACTION wins tawr LuminaxWk: i did Drakonite Meh, a few years ago I developed a VR racing sim to advertise a luxury sports car. I never was able to convince them to let me drive one of them on a track though :-/ Drakonite I'm still disappointed about it LuminaxWk I came to that movie searching for 'supernatural' or 'superpower' type movie tawr Drakonite: go get your SCCA and a rental LuminaxWk it was........ a bizarrely good movie tawr it's not hard to get a SCCA or go get into auto-x Viper-7 LuminaxWk: thats a big fat 'noone' Drakonite eh, I can't be bothered to go through and pay for that. I'm just bummed that a company literally paying me to hype people about their car wouldn't let me drive it :-/ LuminaxWk :| Drakonite though TBF, there was only a couple prototypes available at the time jeffrey3234 tawr LuminaxWk thanks, really should have checked there first Drakonite LuminaxWk, which movie? Drakonite oh, nvm LuminaxWk The Man From Earth tawr jeffrey3234: mike's electrical, wa2ew, mr carlson's lab, eevblod, great scott, and countless other youtubers teach you a lifetime of 'insider' eletronics knowledge for free jeffrey3234 I sub to a couple of those(eevlog, great scott) tawr in order from most knowledgable and more technical driven to more entertaining Viper-7 best thing about that new, bright red, sports pack commodore? i got it second hand for like half of new retail price - previous owner? "Risk Management Services Pty Ltd" tawr those are on the low end tawr barely any tech jeffrey3234 but i keep coming back to simple questions tawr oh, also of course our resident Mehdi with electroboom Drakonite out of those, greatscott does have a few tutorial videos aimed at beginners Viper-7 im guessing someone got blasted by their boss and told they needed a less conspicuous company car :P tawr oops, disregard LuminaxWk Great Scott is good for beginner, imo tawr (sorry) Viper-7 eh, i'd put great scott at "early intermediate" LuminaxWk hmmmm Viper-7 he dives right in using a lot of terms that true beginners wouldnt understand jeffrey3234 if you could put you tounge between to terninals of a car battery would this kill you? jeffrey3234 *your jeffrey3234 *two tawr jeffrey3234: check out mr. carlsons, wa2ew (my favorite), and mike's electrical (CRAZY ADVANCED) tawr jeffrey3234: nope Viper-7 jeffrey3234: quite unlikely LuminaxWk it...would....hurt a lot tawr it would sting a bit jeffrey3234 they can put out like 450amps though, see this is the basics i need tawr but it wouldn't be too bad Viper-7 jeffrey3234: your body has a non-zero resistance Viper-7 thus you need a high enough voltage to pass enough current through your body to cause harm tawr jeffrey3234: here's the thing. your tongue at 12v can only allow so much power to flow because of resistance. it doesn't matter if it's a 12v car battery or a huge generator. LuminaxWk although on the tongue, the resistance drops quite a bit due to saliva tawr it would still be ~50ma from the 450a battery or 50,000A generato tawr things only draw what their resistance (or electronics) allow LuminaxWk tawr: unless it's a 415V generator ;P jeffrey3234 tawr I think greatscott is too advanced sometimes, but I'll check out the first two you mentioned LuminaxWk in which case it's kzzzzeeeeertttttahhhhh Drakonite jeffrey3234, if greatscott's tutorial series is too advanced for you, wa2ew is going to be rough tawr jeffrey3234: they're more advanced but they elucidate extremely well and are very articulate and eloquent in their teaching. the subjects are advanced, but they explain, draw, then SHOW you each step Viper-7 generally accepted safe limit for skin contact is 48V - above 60V and things can get lethal pretty easily - for your tongue the resistance is much lower, so you can get enough current to feel with as little as 5V - but this current wont pass through your heart, which is what typically makes electrocution lethal Loshki jeffrey3234: depending on how serious you are, there is "Learning the Art of Electronics A Hands-On Lab Course" https://learningtheartofelectronics.com/ tawr that's the thing, wa2ew and carlson's lab explain each step jeffrey3234 tawr once I've covered all fundementals, i'll revisit n2 Viper-7, also, that voltage limit is for DC n2 Very important differentiator Viper-7 if you had say.. one terminal of the car battery hooked to your tongue, the other shoved up your arse... then thats a different story, and it could easily be lethal :P n2 Which is why most consumer DC things are sub-50V LuminaxWk for AC it's.... much lower ? Viper-7 but if both terminals are on your tongue, not such an issue LuminaxWk or much higher.... eeeh n2 LuminaxWk, higher usually jeffrey3234 +Viper-7 good explanation, thanks n2 Viper-7, Incidentally Drakonite jeffrey3234, yes, I'd highly recommend finding a couple tutorial series and specifically watching the beginning tutorials (and more than one set of them ideally), and them later going back and checking out all the content on the various channels mentioned n2 That is why you should not lie down on the ground in a thunder storm n2 :P tawr btw jeffrey3234 450a is pretty low for a car battery, is it for a smart car? DocScrutinizer05 gawd, is this question recurring daily? n2 The voltage differential will be much bigger if the lightning strikes the ground n2 Across the heart n2 Than if standing up n2 :P DocScrutinizer05 human body: 10kR 1/8W tawr DocScrutinizer05: welcome to my cynical world LuminaxWk which is why you should stand on top of a tall tr.... oh wait DocScrutinizer05 tongue: 800R 1/4W, hurts a lot Viper-7 jeffrey3234: fwiw people have been killed by 12V DC, but it involved either inserting electrodes under their skin, or huge electrodes on sweaty skin, on the front and back of the chest ZeroWalker Viper-7, GPIOA->regs->IDR & 1 == A0 ? Viper-7 ZeroWalker: yup n2 Jesus Christ, kitty cat n2 You made IRC disconnect! Viper-7 ZeroWalker: most of my interaction with those registers has been for output, typically with the BSRR register (which is awesome), but yeah that should be all it takes jeffrey3234 tawr read that 450a number somewhere a while back, asked this question on other forums, didn't get answered tawr jeffrey3234: to wrap it up. skin is pretty good at resisting power flowing. it has high resistance. sweat lowers resistance, it being wet lowers resistance. cuts REALLY lower resistance since it lets power go under the skin where your wet salty bits are. ZeroWalker saw BSRR being mentioned in the documentation, not sure what it was though tawr jeffrey3234: the amount of current that flows is basd on the resistance of the thing. jeffrey3234 DocScrutinizer05 this question comes up often? tawr it wouldn't matter if it was a 12v power supply, 12v car battery, or 50,000 amp power plant. it would still only be a few hundred milliamps. LuminaxWk mmmm DocScrutinizer05 and answering next question beforehand: *No* you *CANNOt* probe the Ampere in a mains outlet, no matter how much you payed for your DMM ;-D LuminaxWk typical car battery is like.... 40Ah, so assuming you short circuit it, and takes a 1second time frame Viper-7 Bit Set/Reset Register - the ports are 16 bits wide, and BSRR is 32 bits wide, the any 1s in the first 16 bits will set that bit in the port to on (effectively like OR'ing that bit onto the port register), and any 1's in the second 16 bits will reset (clear) the corresponding bit in the port register LuminaxWk that's 40x3600 A...... ? Drakonite jeffrey3234, one thing that confuses lots of people: when you see a power supply/battery rated as 12v 100A, that means it pushes with 12V of force, and if shorted it can provide up to 100A of current. The current gets limited by resistance; a power source does NOT fight to push it's full amperage through a high resistance. jeffrey3234 tawr thanks Viper-7 GPIOA->regs->BSRR = 0b00000000 00000001 00000000 00000010 would turn bit 1 on, and turn bit 2 off, without impacting the state of any other bits on the port, in a single cycle tawr no LuminaxWk it is 450a tawr or whatever it's CCA rating is. DocScrutinizer05 jeffrey3234: Ampere on a battery or cable or fuse are a "CAN do" value, not a "will do" Drakonite ohm's law is literally the answer to everything: Voltage = Current * Resistance tawr ^ Viper-7 aka it'd force A0 high and A1 low, without changing the rest of PORTA tawr and i=v/r jeffrey3234 DocScrutinizer05 jeffrey3234: just like the "max 10T" label on your tow-away rope doesn't mean everything you attach to it weighs 10 t LuminaxWk cold cranking amps... LuminaxWk now that's the first time I've heard that term Drakonite That is the correct usage of 'literal', and not really hyperbole. If you have a question in electronics, Ohm's law is virtually always involved :P tawr that tells you everything you need to know. the amount of current (always I) is equal to voltage / resistance. jeffrey3234 DocScrutinizer05 i see isee Viper-7 ZeroWalker: also if you come to the point where you're struggling with performance, the STM32s can overclock quite well with fairly limited consequences (reduced accuracy on the ADC is pretty much the only shortcoming with core clocks <= 128MHz) tawr btw jeffrey3234 besides youtube you know about SPARKFUN and ADAFRUIT? they're diy/hobby electronics suppliers: https://learn.sparkfun.com/tutorials/voltage-current-resistance-and-ohms-law tawr and they have thousands of articles with examples explaining everything from basic electronics to programming to embedded design LuminaxWk I wonder if they sell beginners' kit ? hmmm Drakonite half of what adafruit does is making tutorials for beginners ZeroWalker ah nice, seen metions of overclocks but didn't find info about shortcomings tawr click that link and read jeffrey3234 tawr LuminaxWk: uh that's how car batteries are rated Viper-7 ZeroWalker: i have a simple lib for stm32duino which makes it easy to up the core multiplier if you want tawr their amp hour rating is far less important than CCA LuminaxWk I was talkin with my Japanese friend the other day who have private tuition school or somesort and mentioned about teaching basics of electronics ZeroWalker well if it's simply enough why not Viper-7 jeffrey3234: an ideal "voltage source" will deliver the same voltage, regardless of load - and the current that flows will be determined by I=V/R, aka ohms law jeffrey3234 tawr I have an arduino, only did the blinking led, have 5 rpi's, but running them as linux boxes/media pcs LuminaxWk tawr: yeah, first time I've actually read that 'Cold Cranking Amps' term Viper-7 an ideal "current source" will deliver the same current, regardless of load - and the voltage that is applied will be determined by V=IR, aka ohms law :P tawr LuminaxWk: yup, CCA is how batteries are rated. car batteries do 400-500A, truck batteries or cars with v8 engines tend to be around 600-700 cca tawr my truck has 2x 2,150A batteries in parallel tawr lol LuminaxWk should be ideal to roast some meat, eh Viper-7 most supplies you come into contact with, including batteries, are primarily voltage sources - however they also include some of their own resistance and other parasitic effects jeffrey3234 tawr bookmarked, thanks tawr fuck you i'll jumpstart an oilrig LuminaxWk heheh LuminaxWk could probably jumpstart a Nimitz class ? LuminaxWk I wonder which one takes higher jumpstart amperage... Viper-7 ZeroWalker: hmm, i dont have anywhere handy to upload files to atm, so it'll be a little dodgy to send password4 I wonder what the average power consumption of a car in a city conditions are DocScrutinizer05 jeffrey3234: I found the analogy between electricity and water pipes always quite inspiring, particularly until I started serious physics classes in school at age of 10. Volt (voltage) = pressure, Ampere (current) = flow, and Ohm (resistance) = "how far you open the tap". Watt (power) = "ouch, that's mean to hose me like that" or "that's damn exhausting to pull up that many water in such short time" LuminaxWk oh that's right Viper-7 ZeroWalker: make a folder under /libraries called stm32clock and put these two files inside it - clocks.h https://pastebin.com/kxF80iRy and clocks.cpp https://pastebin.com/Qjs7U5KZ LuminaxWk Viper-7: do you know if IR-LED's transmission distance and power is linear ? password4 it occusrs to me with hybrids that you only need a gas engine big enough to account for short term losses Viper-7 LuminaxWk: shrug LuminaxWk hmmm password4 because the gasengine can run continously recharging the batteries whilest you dont need the extra power LuminaxWk boss told me to make a 'minimum gauge' for testing reference password4 i bet its somewhere like 10kW LuminaxWk the specs mentions 8 meters, he's babbling something about 20 cm Viper-7 ZeroWalker: you can then add #include "clocks.h" to the top of your arduino sketch (or external cpp library) and call eg sysSetPLLMultiplier(9); in your setup method to change the core clock frequency LuminaxWk hmmmm LuminaxWk I'm bothered by the fact that 99% of our electronic parts came from Shenzhen... and nobody bothered to ask for a datasheet Viper-7 ZeroWalker: https://gist.github.com/anonymous/83a125f8d16b4330d7dafe374484d34e LuminaxWk brb Viper-7 that gives a 5-bit PWM (0-31) and outputs a ~21MHz square wave (50% duty) Viper-7 using a 104MHz core clock ZeroWalker let's see:) password4 LuminaxWk: you get what you paid for password4 if you want proper datasheets , buy proper parts LuminaxWk eh LuminaxWk don't say that to me >_> eirirs china parts without documentations? :D LuminaxWk y....es LuminaxWk hands up whoever heard of IC maker called 'Silan' ZeroWalker hmm, my usb isn't recognized after using that o.o ZeroWalker though i only used the pll multiplier password4 LuminaxWk: also check ebay listings of your components , sometimes they list more data about the parts you ordered ZeroWalker okay reflashed it via serial now it works again, so i guess i did something wrong with the overclock thing Shawn|4650M anyone here know what saturation current is? LuminaxWk that's.... usually concerning BJTs iirc? LuminaxWk how hard you drive a BJT before it reaches saturation Duckle could be for inductors too Duckle but there frequency component to that too Duckle there's usually* LuminaxWk uh-huh zigggggy Duckle!!!!! LuminaxWk anyway, you could probably provide a little more context ? zigggggy LuminaxWk duckle is here! Duckle zigggggy: :) zigggggy ACTION pets Duckle Duckle Shawn|4650M: ^ Duckle the context part, not the petting :P Duckle ACTION pets zigggggy back zigggggy :O zigggggy ACTION isnt a pet Duckle against the grain Duckle zigggggy: is wood aparrently zigggggy :O nickromancer ziggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggy Duckle I mean, what else has grain? :P Shawn|4650M I'm trying to find the specs for saturation current for a 1N4148 diode Duckle uh Shawn|4650M EveryCircuit does not have specific diodes :( Duckle Shawn|4650M: why? Shawn|4650M I need to modify the in-program diode to match the specs of a 1N4148 LuminaxWk satu...cur..... 1N4148 ? Duckle some sort of spice? linux_probe uhhh Shawn|4650M because this http://prntscr.com/h48c7f LuminaxWk Duckle: capitalization is important ;P LuminaxWk otherwise it goes into the cupboard... with the rosemary, and the thymes... DocScrutinizer05 LuminaxWk: IR LEDs are roughly linear photons per joule, distance/range however is similar to all fields Duckle LuminaxWk: hehe LuminaxWk DocScrutinizer05: what I wanted to know is where the fuck did my boss got the '20cm' distance when the spec mentioned 8m for the minimum transmit power distance jaggz really programmers could afford to present some dignity. https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/taking_a_screenshot#scrot DocScrutinizer05 LuminaxWk: hint: sphere surface Duckle Shawn|4650M: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturation_current LuminaxWk there's a receiver unit designed by the Japan branch some 20 or so years ago that you can tweak the voltage of a comparator at to show OK/NG LuminaxWk anyway..... DocScrutinizer05 LuminaxWk: nfc what your boss is thinking and in which context, based on which rationale jaggz what's NG? LuminaxWk DocScrutinizer05: exactly LuminaxWk jaggz: No Good jaggz ohh Duckle Shawn|4650M: for your use-case, what matters is the ohmic resistance, and forward voltage jaggz lol Duckle mostly Shawn|4650M Duckle, but saturation current affects a diode in a big way..? LuminaxWk jaggz: taking a scrotum? bwehehehehe Duckle Shawn|4650M: The real question is, what are you doing with a 555 timer? :) Duckle if it's for doing a learn, then sure. But if it's for a practical usecase, just slap a micro controller in there. It's cheaper and simpler, and more capable Shawn|4650M I'm trying to figure out how to make a 3v to 6v voltage boost converter... jaggz LuminaxWk, capturing it.. yeah.. heh Duckle get a chip that does that :S Shawn|4650M and I'm running out of time, I need it by tomorrow DocScrutinizer05 LuminaxWk: you can easily test a LED output from 20cm distance, it's much harder from 8m distance. However your results at 20cm distance even allow to calculate the level of signal at 8m or any other distance jaggz scrotcatch Duckle Shawn|4650M: Use a simple switcher from TI LuminaxWk so anyway, if the power transmitted vs distance is somehow a linear correlation, I can see calculating the minimum transmission over a shorter distance, provided you calculate the required power and designs the receiver accordingly Shawn|4650M and as I had already stated, I dont have time to wait a couple weeks for shipment, let alone afford it right now.. DocScrutinizer05 no, this is NOT a linear relation LuminaxWk hmmm Shawn|4650M theres a chip in something that I can salvage from a piece of electronic equipment that I have, then i need to figure out how to do this discreetly DocScrutinizer05 at twice the distance the light spot is 2^2 times the size Shawn|4650M *discretely LuminaxWk exponential Duckle wait are we talking inverse square law? LuminaxWk uh.... maybe ? Shawn|4650M I need a solution that wont eat up the samsung smartphone battery Shawn|4650M its a 3.7V 1500mAh Li-Ion Duckle Shawn|4650M: I can't tell you anything other than, get a propper switching psu chip for that Shawn|4650M . . . Duckle Shawn|4650M: what do you need to power? Duckle is it like, <1mA? Shawn|4650M I need to get a 3.7V battery up to 6V at currents varying between 30mA to 120mAh Duckle Shawn|4650M: There's been some youtube videos on that subject recently from julian ilett I think LuminaxWk anyway... I'll put up some lab tests for that IR LED Shawn|4650M link? Duckle Shawn|4650M: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QnUhjnbZ0T8 LuminaxWk presumably, the beam at 8m and the beam at the recalculated 20cm or 10cm should be able to activate the comparator electrobot Duckle just linked to DIY Boost Converter || How to step up DC voltage efficiently - YouTube LuminaxWk signifying the remote under test passed the minimum transmission test Duckle that ones not recent, but it's far up there Shawn|4650M ive seen this... Shawn|4650M wasn't very helpful Shawn|4650M I don't have the components he has Shawn|4650M such as that tower variable resistor password4 no linear IC will boost voltage ;D Shawn|4650M eh? ZeroWalker hmm, it's weird, i am probably doing something very wrong, but i can only seem to detect 2-3 4mhz clocks from the GB during one vsync (ca 60hz). it's supposed to be 160, and this is nowhere near that xd Shawn|4650M I dont have any programmable ICs Shawn|4650M nor even a programmer Shawn|4650M those are too hella expensive LuminaxWk uh... DocScrutinizer05 LuminaxWk: good luck with detecting a IR LED from 8m distance without using either a carrier frequency or a highly directional receiver (aka telescope) LuminaxWk $2~$6 is expensive ? Duckle Shawn|4650M: ... DocScrutinizer05 at least the usual remote control IR LED LuminaxWk DocScrutinizer05: it's supposed to work at 8m, like you know, your normal TV etcs. although of course usually 4m or so is your average remote distance Viper-7 ZeroWalker: how are you trying to detect the clocks Duckle Shawn|4650M: tower variable resistor? Duckle wat Duckle Shawn|4650M: Do you mean a mosfet? DocScrutinizer05 LuminaxWk: those all work with a carrier frequency Duckle Shawn|4650M: And no, arduinos are not expensive, they are like 5 usd LuminaxWk of course Shawn|4650M I have some mosfets Viper-7 ZeroWalker: and yeah sorry heh, the usb stuff derives its clock from the core clock, you can overclock while using usb, but you must adjust the usb clock divider - which i dont have code handy for Viper-7 i very rarely use USB with them so i forgot about that Shawn|4650M I was referring to a willem programmer DocScrutinizer05 there was an article in german magazine about it: "IR remote control: a Signal/Noise ratio horror show" LuminaxWk DocScrutinizer05: it's an IR remote, they all have carrier frequency Duckle Shawn|4650M: Why would you want that? Duckle arduinos are programmed over USB LuminaxWk and PICs are programmed with PICKIT LuminaxWk and STM32 are programmed using STLink... Duckle Shawn|4650M: I'm sorry man, a DC/DC boost converter might be a few steps too far for you to learn about and make with at hands components, in a day LuminaxWk what the fuck is a Willem programmer ? Viper-7 AVRs are programmed via AVR-ISP or other such LuminaxWk seems I have heard that somewhere... ZeroWalker Viper-7, i am simply reading from the pins constantly, so very inefficient but at least it should be fast LuminaxWk ACTION googles Viper-7 AVRs with a serial bootloader can be programed via serial port, but that applies to basically everything ZeroWalker Viper-7, ah, but with STLink that's not a problem? Viper-7 ZeroWalker: pastebin code? Viper-7 ZeroWalker: correct Viper-7 stlink doesnt care about the stm32's clocks, its asynchronous LuminaxWk .......an EPROM programmer ? LuminaxWk wait..... wait.... Duckle LuminaxWk: It's a 30 USD programmer for eeproms from what I can see LuminaxWk EPROM? ZeroWalker something like this currently (changing it a lot as i test): http://paste.awesom.eu/POwT Duckle oh wat Shawn|4650M Duckle, this is not my first day on working with electronics.. Duckle yeah EPROM LuminaxWk not even EEPROM ? DocScrutinizer05 LuminaxWk: I got your info like you're planning to set up a comparator to sense an absolute light level LuminaxWk .... 1980s called, they want their toys back ;) LuminaxWk DocScrutinizer05: in a way, that's how our current receiver are set up DocScrutinizer05 LuminaxWk: for IR remote control that's like receiving a braodcast station from measuring the voltage on a wire with your DMM Duckle Shawn|4650M: No, but you're unfamiliar with arduinos, and couldn't use the video (or similar) to get the relevant concepts behind boost converters LuminaxWk I want to see the waveform over the carrier at around 6~8m distances, see what I can pick up beneath all the noises Duckle Shawn|4650M: on top of that you also want it to be effecient, something only really acheived by experimenting with the "just right" inductor, the propper switching transistor, the right driving frequency, etc. etc. DocScrutinizer05 yeah, good luck with that, without using a highly selective frequency filter in between LuminaxWk fre... DocScrutinizer05 well, doesn't even need to be highly selective, just 100dB FC and LF rejection LuminaxWk from what I've seen in my oscilloscope from a 2m capture, I don't need any frequency filter Shawn|4650M I guess no one has done 3v to 6v before or something.. DocScrutinizer05 DC LuminaxWk from 8m that might be a different story but eh Duckle Shawn|4650M: ... LuminaxWk I haven't seen that 6m~8m waveform so I can't really say Duckle you don't think people have boosted a voltage to a higher voltage?! ZeroWalker well gotta go, i expect to learn much from you maste viper, stay tuned LuminaxWk hmmmm actually I might have... LuminaxWk now where did I keep my scope screenshot LuminaxWk Shawn|4650M: people have boosted 3V to 18kV ffs LuminaxWk 3V to 6V is like oreos Shawn|4650M I'm not finding any pre-built circuits like I did for a 555 latching circuit Viper-7 ZeroWalker: i probably wouldnt break out isvsync into a seperate function like that, just because it would be easier to optimize if it was doing that inline - but the real issue would be the Serial.print() calls in the isClock function - these take a bunch of time, so will block the rest of the code while they transmit data - if you want to capture stuff at high speed, you should write the information you capture to a buffer, then periodically dump t DocScrutinizer05 fro 8m your signal will be 1/(8/2)^2 Viper-7 hat via Serial.print(), so you dont have to make that call when handling each bit LuminaxWk DocScrutinizer05: absolute power? DocScrutinizer05 iow 1/16th DocScrutinizer05 yes LuminaxWk hrmmm LuminaxWk might need some filtering eh... but then again LuminaxWk hmm Shawn|4650M I understand that LuminaxWk LuminaxWk fuck where's my photodiode flor1an ACTION throws a bunch at LuminaxWk  Viper-7 Shawn|4650M: approaches for something like that vary dramatically depending on load current n2 Shawn|4650M, voltage boosting is simple LuminaxWk it's raining photodiodeeeeeeeeee n2 Voltage boosting at higher current is less simple flor1an halleluja? :) LuminaxWk no, it's ouchouchouchouchpinsouchouch Shawn|4650M 30mA to 120mA isn't much LuminaxWk myeyesouchouch flor1an LuminaxWk: quite close still heh flor1an hm, which UV sensor to get> flor1an ? LuminaxWk seriously though, where the heck is my IR photodiode n2 Shawn|4650M, it is if you consider the input current it would have to handle. flor1an application will be indoor garden monitoring (flower pots mostly) Viper-7 Shawn|4650M: TI have a nice appnote describing a charge pump designed to take 1.5V up to around the 3V mark (actually like 2.7V but hey), which is just a voltage doubler, so would boost 3V to 5.7V in the same way LuminaxWk urgh.... I need parts cabinet and my boss still won't approve the purchase order Shawn|4650M okay so its double the current to boost the voltage n2 100V, 100 mA is 10 watts, Shawn|4650M Viper-7 http://www.ti.com/lit/an/slaa105/slaa105.pdf LuminaxWk and then he have the BALLS to call my lab 'messy' n2 3V at 100 watts is 3.33 ampere. n2 *10 watts n2 Assuming 100% efficiency Viper-7 Shawn|4650M: well you need at least the same watts in as out yes, a bit more to account for inefficiency in the converter n2 Which won't happen Shawn|4650M n2 thats extremely high, way out of my remote situation LuminaxWk haha 100%... n2 Shawn|4650M, whats your input and desired output? Shawn|4650M my input is 3.7 to 4.2V p0g0 flor1an: why UV sensors, plants don't much like UV and it's not plant avaliable energy? LuminaxWk 3.33A would be what the converter is CAPABLE of providing Shawn|4650M err 3.3 possible Viper-7 Shawn|4650M: but that circuit is designed for lower power applications - i think at around the 2mA mark the voltage starts to sag LuminaxWk doesn't necessarily means your remote will get whammed by 3.33A flor1an p0g0: exactly thats the reason. to find out if they have too much n2 Shawn|4650M, and the output? Viper-7 its made for a <1mA microcontroller LuminaxWk anyway.... flor1an p0g0: had issues this year with plants asuminly having too much light (and thus, UV) Shawn|4650M I need 6V at 30mA to 120mA n2 Great n2 https://www.onsemi.com/pub/Collateral/MC34063A-D.PDF n2 Go. flor1an (you may keep the typos) n2 That'll do the trick for you. Viper-7 if you want higher currents, you should really look to a proper switching boost converter, with an inductor and whatnot, rather than a charge pump n2 There is even an online calculator for you to use Shawn|4650M ACTION facpalms... n2 Right here n2 http://www.nomad.ee/micros/mc34063a/ p0g0 flor1an: where would you be getting UV exposure from? Total light saturation is easy to fix... space blankets for example. n2 To pick your component values Duckle Shawn|4650M: https://www.digikey.com/products/en/integrated-circuits-ics/pmic-voltage-regulators-dc-dc-switching-regulators/739 Shawn|4650M like I even have one of those.. Viper-7 mc34063a will do a decent job yeah n2 Shawn|4650M, so buy one flor1an p0g0: don't want to blanket up all my windows. n2 They are super cheap Shawn|4650M looking at a stinkin online catalog isn't going to find me a solution for the next day flor1an p0g0: but as a decision helper 'is the window spot cool' or not n2 Yes, it is n2 You can buy those in any fucking electronics store, online or not flor1an (not cool as in temperatur, tho) LuminaxWk gotcha! n2 The problem, Shawn|4650M, is Viper-7 those chips are super common, and should be available just about anywhere n2 You could do something with a transistor and an inductor n2 But you'd need several opamps n2 To regulate it Viper-7 they dont have the lowest quiescent current draw, but beggars cant be choosers Shawn|4650M I dont have any electronics stores open locally anymore n2 Because you would get a random-ass voltage out LuminaxWk MC34063A and MC33063A is the 'vanilla' of DC to DC converter flor1an p0g0: i can see my motivation being different from what you'd expect maybe, i'm like 'i need dis' n2 LuminaxWk, yep. Viper-7 the main issue with a DIY SMPS is that the frequency has to be rather high, and you need a very fast response speed and decent resolution to give any decent regulation n2 But they are reasonably efficient, and pretty easy to use flor1an p0g0: because quite honestly, you're right ;) p0g0 flor1an: the lesions on a plant from too much UV are usually pretty distinctive. Total sunlight is usually not an issue either, plants just make and toss away sugars- the stressors tend to be more about water and heat. Shawn|4650M n2, so I'm the problem for coming in with a valid need for assistance in a project.. n2 Shawn|4650M, no n2 You're the problem because you're rejecting solutions left right and center Viper-7 i have a ton of these Viper-7 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/DC-DC-2-24V-to-2-28V-Step-Up-Adjustable-Power-Module-Step-Up-Boost-Converter/32795074942.html Viper-7 which are damn handy LuminaxWk oh, right, I forgot about voltage converters... LuminaxWk hmmm Viper-7 they'll happily do 3V to 6V at around 1000mA n2 Unfortunately, it's not always a McGyver thing, Shawn|4650M Shawn|4650M so waiting 2 weeks for something to arrive is going to help me being remoteless for my projector tomorrow... n2 You can't make 3.3V into 6V Shawn|4650M n2, it has for me so far n2 Using duct tape LuminaxWk Viper-7: you remember that circuit with the 3V 1.8V and 1.4V thingie I mentioned quite a while back ? Viper-7 vaguely n2 Shawn|4650M, you can order for the next day. n2 Do you actually have some electronic components n2 Or do you expect magic? n2 :P Viper-7 Shawn|4650M: if you need a quick solution, add a second battery... n2 Yes. Shawn|4650M I can't afford the shipping anyways LuminaxWk so, suppose I want to control the MC33063A/MC34063A output voltage via DAC, would that be possible ? n2 LuminaxWk, not really... LuminaxWk damn... Duckle Shawn|4650M: Use 4 AA batteries Viper-7 LuminaxWk: kinda sorta almost Duckle tadah 6v n2 LuminaxWk, what you should do there... LuminaxWk ACTION eyes LT3080 n2 Is have it regulate to a reasonable voltage Viper-7 you can put the DAC in the feedback loop, but it'll shitty up your response n2 And then drop it with a DAC-controlled linreg n2 :P n2 Or use a more fancy converter, of course Shawn|4650M Duckle, I have a battery that fits where the 4 AAA plastic molded shroud use to go LuminaxWk so I'll just buck down from 12V to 5V for the MCU/System, and then LDO it from there to an MCU controlled LT3080 ? Duckle Shawn|4650M: Wait wait wait, so you need it tomorrow, so ASAP, and it already takes 4 AAAs? Shawn|4650M LuminaxWk, I happen to have one of those MC34063A DIP chips with me right now Shawn|4650M from a car 12v charger n2 lol n2 The trolling is unique Shawn|4650M I dont have the AAA's it consumes within a week flor1an p0g0: anyways, which sensors would you hook up to a plant? besides the obvious photocell, soil resistance, temperature (air, soil) Shawn|4650M n2 the hell with that, I'm not a troll Viper-7 LuminaxWk: technically speaking, you can probably MCU control an LM317 :P Duckle Shawn|4650M: You don't have the components for a boost converter either LuminaxWk Viper-7: technically speaking, yes :) Drakonite Viper-7, just not 'probably', but it's semi-common apparently n2 Shawn|4650M, just slap some batteries together Shawn|4650M what makes you say that.. LuminaxWk hmmm...that's probably cheaper eh Duckle contrary to popular memes, ducttape and WD40 won't solve all problems LuminaxWk damn LT3080 is so expensive n2 Shawn|4650M, the fact that you don't have a simple, often-used IC Shawn|4650M n2 thats is most certainly NOT the way to go about it n2 But Shawn|4650M Drakonite Duckle, true, sometimes you need tacos n2 It is if it's what you've got n2 And if you can't afford shipping LuminaxWk Duckle: unless you're MacGyver n2 Then it IS what you've got n2 lol LuminaxWk (sic) n2 What's so difficult to understand about that? Duckle source in comments? Shawn|4650M n2, what simple often used IC? n2 If you don't have the components to build stuff LuminaxWk oh n2 Then you don't build it n2 You do something else Duckle Shawn|4650M: ZXLD1615 would work nicely Viper-7 LuminaxWk: how much current do you need on those lower rails? n2 Tell you what, why don't you operate your fucking presentation from the computer? :P LuminaxWk sorry, I mistook that term p0g0 flor1an: a strain guage, that's a better indicater of soil available water (adjusted for the gaining mass of the plant) than the conductivity methods. Wind speed if you are a Plant Science type. Look up the PhotoSynQ project if you want a tricorder for you plants. Viper-7 if its very little, you can probably do most of this with a quad opamp or such LuminaxWk Viper-7: it varies with remote, but burst current for the IR LED can reach up to 800mA Shawn|4650M and MC34063A chip wont work out here Duckle ? Viper-7 ah n2 Shawn|4650M, lmfao Duckle Shawn|4650M: Look up the datasheet LuminaxWk or maybe... more? I don't think it goes more than that but n2 You're a troll because you whined that you can't get it Viper-7 Shawn|4650M: yes, it will, as we've mentioned many times password4 n2: your doing apresentation about fucking? Shawn|4650M I have it up Duckle n2 And now you all of a sudden have Duckle Shawn|4650M: Does it say boost converter? Viper-7 Shawn|4650M: you'll need an appropriate inductor and such, but hey DocScrutinizer05 lol, great theatre Shawn|4650M well Ive been trying to work on this for 2 days LuminaxWk quad... opamp? n2 Shawn|4650M, http://www.nomad.ee/micros/mc34063a/index.shtml n2 Go Shawn|4650M Viper-7, I have a slew of inductors n2 If you have a 34063 LuminaxWk you mean... building my own voltage regulator ? n2 That web page is all you need n2 It will even show you the circuit n2 You should be happy LuminaxWk or using the opamps in the feedback loop ? n2 It can calculate /everything/ for you Viper-7 LuminaxWk: not even that fancy, a voltage subtractor Shawn|4650M and I have wire that i can wrap a toroidal inductor with, trying to find LuminaxWk errr.... DocScrutinizer05 Shawn|4650M: you probably better mow aunt emmi's garden for last 2 days, so you could afford like 4 dozen AAA now Duckle Shawn|4650M: Dude, figure 9 LuminaxWk Vo=V2-V1 stuff ? Shawn|4650M *SP34063 Duckle I uhm. Duckle thanks for all the fish, and so long acetoline I've discovered that the typical schematic that's given for buck/boost/flyback power supplies is totally wrong. Viper-7 or just like, make a voltage follower, but feed Vin from a filtered PWM from your micro n2 Shawn|4650M, it makes no difference. LuminaxWk FISH p0g0 flor1an: you might want a spectral analytic tool, there are cheap ones based on wavelength specific photodiodes- that would give you the mix of blue and far red spectra. Duckle Viper-7: He doesn't have programmable ICs acetoline you know, the one with a mosfet, inductor, and capacitor. LuminaxWk ahum..... filtered PWM turned to a sort of ripply voltage... acetoline well, not wrong, but leaving out very very important details. Viper-7 Duckle: i'm talking to LuminaxWk not Shawn|4650M Duckle oh ok :P LuminaxWk but then... would that be enough to supply the current I wonder acetoline and I've discovered just how complex modern power supply designs are Viper-7 LuminaxWk: but yeah, no good if you want large output currents - although that depends on the duration of these bursts i guess, and wether you can supply those from capacitance LuminaxWk most of the remotes already have built in tank/bypass cap with quite large values Duckle acetoline: You're saying the typical application diagrams from the datasheets are wrong? p0g0 flor1an: and that light level by frequency is more applicable to a particular species than any total energy measure. You may have plants that have photoperiodicity and need the far-red, for example. LuminaxWk typically in the hundred uF range acetoline Duckle: datasheets for what? n2 Duckle, more likely that the simple diagrams (MOSFET, inductor, diode) n2 Duckle, are wrong Duckle acetoline: switchmode controllers n2 the conceptual idea n2 Of a regulator acetoline no, I'm not talking about those, Duckle Viper-7 LuminaxWk: i assume if the voltage sags during the test it'd be less than ideal. Duckle acetoline: Oh ok acetoline n2 has the right understanding LuminaxWk w-eeeeeell not quite Viper-7 LuminaxWk: maybe we're looking at this the wrong way Viper-7 a few fets and series diodes? :P LuminaxWk it sags even with my expensive regulated power supply Duckle acetoline: well yeah, those diagrams are just mainly to explain the concept LuminaxWk series..... diode ? n2 acetoline, the devil is in the feedback n2 Controlling it properly n2 etc. Duckle acetoline: If you want something fun, read this :) http://www.users.on.net/~ithilien/tam/electronics/CapacitorParadox.html Viper-7 well diodes have a forward voltage drop correct? thats relatively constant based on load current LuminaxWk yeeees? n2 Viper-7, yes. LuminaxWk aaand using that to drop the voltage ? Viper-7 so you can have a string of diodes in series to yield the lowest desired output voltage - then use mosfets to short em out when needed acetoline n2: well I mean it should be obvious that the hard bit is making the controller. But just how complex a modern controller is, is never stated n2 acetoline, amazingly complicated. p0g0 flor1an: I'd guess the only other component a palnt science type might want is the gas concentrations, esp CO2, & O2 LuminaxWk that's.... an interesting concept acetoline exactly n2 You should watch the n2 What I call n2 "Kenny Keysight" videos on the EEVBlog channel n2 I always think they guy is called kenny key sight, because the text breaks n2 Yada interview with John Duckle n2: The recent interviews? n2 Kenny Keysight n2 lol n2 Duckle, yes. LuminaxWk however since the specs calls for a really tight voltage I might as well go for an MCU controlled LT3080 or something.... hrrrrrmmmmm Duckle n2: Those are really good :D n2 There's a talk about the digital feedback control n2 Of their SMPS's Viper-7 heh acetoline I recently learned about quasi-resonant power supplies, and it turns out that is now old-hat and obsolete LuminaxWk specs said.... "3.00V ± 0.05" LuminaxWk I was like whaaat theeeee fuuuuuuuck Viper-7 lol jeez n2 acetoline, the good thing about electronics n2 Is that stuff that's old-hat and obsolete Viper-7 you might be able to use a digipot i guess n2 Is still really useful. LuminaxWk it's a fucking BATTERY OPERATED REMOTE Viper-7 (as opposed to a voltage dac) Duckle n2: I especially like the bit where they go over how they get really good analog EEs from uni, just to never have them do actual analog EE, but DSP stuff instead LuminaxWk you're getting 3.2V damnit lol LuminaxWk Viper-7: digipot? n2 Duckle, it's fun but a bit sad, too LuminaxWk if I need to touch it, it's out of the picture Duckle n2: Meh Viper-7 you dont n2 I understand Keysight's motivation n2 :P Viper-7 http://www.microchip.com/wwwproducts/en/MCP4131 LuminaxWk ah, binary/byte controlled value, then ? Duckle n2: the real world sucks, dealing with it in a world we create is much nicer ;) n2 Duckle, oh totally Duckle DSP to the rescue n2 It was just random whine Duckle hehe Shawn|4650M would a 220 labeled shielded inductor work for 220uH? LuminaxWk also... I built my 8-channel DPDT relay board, and suddenly found out I'm out 3 relays LuminaxWk goddamn old junks <_< n2 Shawn|4650M, If the inductor is 220H, then yes. Shawn|4650M looking at figure 15 LuminaxWk μ？ LuminaxWk m? LuminaxWk ACTION pokes n2  n2 LuminaxWk, micro n2 u n2 The letter is called mu Shawn|4650M microHenry uH n2 APologize for the unicode if that messed up LuminaxWk μ Viper-7 mu ju too LuminaxWk I know LuminaxWk your symbols shows up unrecognized here Viper-7 worked for me n2 LuminaxWk, ah. Not an UTF-8 IRC client then. LuminaxWk ah, must be my fonts then LuminaxWk did mine work ? n2 Or your font is messed up n2 LuminaxWk, yes Viper-7 yup LuminaxWk cool, I'll just use mine ;P Viper-7 its funny, this client wont let me send UTF-8, but i can receive it just fine Viper-7 μ LuminaxWk btw, that's in the Japanese fontsets Viper-7 oo, that worked (here) LuminaxWk ....somewhere Viper-7 Viper-7 *shrug* LuminaxWk μ Duckle µ n2 Mew LuminaxWk hmmm Duckle µ is on the danish keyboard layout Duckle oddly enough LuminaxWk Σ Viper-7 μp yoμrs LuminaxWk yay ;P Duckle altgr M Duckle µ rEv9 æøå n2 Duckle, are you danish? Shawn|4650M the 220 labled shielded inductor I hav reads 0.2Ohm 0.02uH n2 Also Duckle n2: When it's convenient LuminaxWk I just type "myu-" on my Japanese mode and it goes up :3 Shawn|4650M why does it read that small? n2 Shawn|4650M, then it's a 22 H inductor. LuminaxWk or 'maikuro' n2 22, with 0 zeros after it LuminaxWk anyway, break time! Viper-7 o.O n2 i.e., 22. Shawn|4650M oh Duckle n2: Also when I leave the internet I think I'm in Denmark :P Viper-7 because 0.02 == 22 n2 Duckle, just think? n2 :P Viper-7 0.02mH yes Viper-7 otherwise 22nH ? heh Duckle n2: I mean, I'd have to roll up my curtains to make sure :P n2 Duckle, depending on where in the country, that may be terrifying. n2 :P Duckle heh n2 And if you have not guessed it Duckle actually I'm at a lecture for EE math :S n2 I unfortunately /know/ I'm in Denmark Shawn|4650M all I can find online for an inductor calculator are color coded calculators, anyone know of one that shows 3 numerical digit calculation? n2 Shawn|4650M, it's not difficult, man. Duckle fourier analysis n2 22 + 10^[last digit] n2 erh Viper-7 Shawn|4650M: its normally 2 digits then the multiplier, in microhenries n2 22 * 10^[last digit] n2 So, 222 is 22 * 100, i.e. 2200 microhenries Viper-7 but its not quite a universal standard, some arent marked properly n2 But you should always measure n2 Duckle, ah. n2 Fourier analysis is quite cool. Viper-7 eg that marking doesnt allow you to make a 0.5uH inductor Duckle it is, if I'd paid attention at the start of this chapter n2 Haha. Viper-7 because theres no /2 "multiplier" Duckle n2: Where are you from? :) n2 Duckle, Originally, Aalborg Viper-7 the lowest you could go is 010 n2 Moved to Allerd (Copenhagen area) Duckle n2: Dude n2 Now, Hobro n2 :P Duckle I'm in Aalborg n2 Hahahah Viper-7 being 1uH n2 Aalborg Universitet? Duckle yes n2 Classic! Duckle live on Danmarksgade Duckle old teknisk skole n2 We used to call that the Gaza strip... rEv9 gammel* n2 Back in high school... Viper-7 thats where other notations come in, eg 0R5 Duckle woop Shawn|4650M what might the digits be for a 170uH inductor? Viper-7 but yeah, 221 should be what you're after Viper-7 171 Viper-7 17 and 1 zero n2 (Had a friend who lived there :P) n2 But yeah, I moved to the countryside n2 :P Shawn|4650M I was looking for the wrong inductor value, not 220uH but 170uH Duckle n2: was Teknisk skole still on Danmarks Gade when you lived in Aalborg? n2 Duckle, it's not that long ago... Duckle oh ok :P n2 I don't think so n2 I'm 28 n2 Not exactly ancient n2 :P Duckle well, these appartments are 3 years old :) n2 Used to live in Aalborg until, what, 2010-11 n2 It probably was there when I was a child :P Duckle right, so these appartments weren't even being built when you moved :) p0g0 ACTION mutters something about kids on his virtual lawn n2 No n2 But I was around Danmarksgade recently Duckle feels like they're always building somewhere here :) n2 YES! n2 I was freaked out n2 The amount of new student apartments etc n2 Is fucking /MASSIVE/ Duckle it's insane Duckle neat to see. just buildings popping up n2 Well, Aalborg actually has a lot of growth potential, to be fair n2 The university is actually really good Duckle n2: Have you seen that budolfi parking has been torn down? n2 Duckle, yes. n2 And hated it. n2 :P Duckle it's so dumb :S Duckle but interesting to watch the construction going on n2 I don't even know where the parking spaces are these days p0g0 In the US, there is a statitistic that about half the students in a college stay within 50 miles of their uni- that makes the school a huge economic engine, and why they just build more of them. n2 So I just park at my old high school, always room :P n2 (Katedralskolen) n2 It's reasonably close to the city centre :P Duckle n2: Well, aparrently they are in a bit of a disagreement in the local government here. And the party in charge said something like "there's a lot of spots in city syd" Duckle and busses Duckle wat n2 Fuck city syd n2 It's insane n2 ! n2 I was there on a friday night Duckle I like what they did in Aarhus with dokk1 n2 I had no idea there were so many kids out there n2 Drinking and doing stupid shit n2 lol n2 Sounded like a fucking war zone. :D Duckle hah, I wouldn't know. I'm only ever there when bauhaus is open :P n2 Also, BILKA at 11 pm n2 Is a fucking nightmare n2 Just sayin' Duckle n2: Eh, Netto on Vesterbro is open 24/7 :) n2 ACTION lives in the countryside n2 We have no need for such modern conveniences n2 :P Duckle hehe. I want snacks, and I want them bloody... in 15 minutes n2 Although I was pissed when the Netto across the street moved n2 It was nice to walk 10 meters :P LuminaxAndro I've been talking to a wall.... Duckle LuminaxWk: That's not that smart p0g0 I'd worry if it talked back... n2 Anyway Duckle Duckle walls don't tend to say much LuminaxAndro Wall known as ns identifi >< n2 I am fucking amazed n2 At long last, a dane on IRC LuminaxAndro Or identify n2 Who isn't from the copenhagen area n2 lol Duckle n2: haha n2 It's only been like 14 years of continuous IRC history for me n2 lol Duckle Been here a while too. Kinda interesting we've never bumped into eachother :P Duckle or well, while mentioning nationality :) LuminaxAndro 14 years? Noob :p acetoline n2: I know another Dane on irc n2 It was sort of incidental Duckle that's half his life :) acetoline who isn't from Copenhagen n2 Only because of mu n2 :P acetoline he's not on this channel though Duckle lol yeah Duckle µ n2 Although because I use a Mac n2 It's just regular Alt+M n2 :P Duckle hehe n2 But a different mu, than yours n2 ! LuminaxAndro Geh Duckle my mu is better than your mu LuminaxAndro A Macuser Duckle I have to urge my IRC database now and then Duckle it reaches 5GB rather often n2 LuminaxAndro, I have to n2 Work Duckle pffy LuminaxAndro ACTION raises an eyebrow Duckle work n2 Since the work I do involves Apple products Duckle LuminaxWk: I'm in ~40 rather active channels n2 It's that way or nothing n2 :P Shawn|4650M how do you calculate what 0.02mH is on a chinese tester? Duckle wat Shawn|4650M is that .02microHenries? n2 Shawn|4650M, ... 0.02mH * 1000 = 22uH n2 M = milli password4 someone should make a keyboard with µ on it Shawn|4650M ohh Duckle n2: M = mega LuminaxAndro "My mu-shake brings all the geeks to the yard"? Duckle ;) n2 Duckle, unless you're SPICEing n2 Then it's Meg n2 :P Duckle if I'm spicing it's 1000000 LuminaxAndro My SPICE accepts M n2 My SPICE is LTspice n2 The only one I like n2 lol Duckle is there any other? :P n2 Duckle, sure LuminaxAndro PSPICe n2 I use EAGLE for PCB layout... n2 It uses ngspice n2 Which is useless Duckle you can't make me beleive there is n2 LuminaxAndro, LTSpice is PSpice Duckle shuddup n2 :P LuminaxAndro The one true SPICE Duckle I use SPICEgirls n2 Duckle, SPICEworld? Duckle it's extremely unproductive n2 Or whatever the movie was called n2 lol p0g0 Dune LuminaxAndro I'm talking about the real deal Duckle p0g0 pins are cool n2 p0g0, Arrakis. LuminaxAndro Not some lite.... pssshhh n2 Or, Rakis if you like the later books n2 Which you shouldn't Duckle LuminaxAndro: just had a tire go flat n2 Especially not the lesser ones n2 By Brian Herbert n2 lol LuminaxAndro Ugh n2 Duckle, At least you have something with a tire n2 I assume a bicycle n2 Because you're a uni student LuminaxAndro Smartphones aren't for ircing n2 ACTION is prejudiced DocScrutinizer05 n2: wait, since when is Eagle using any spice? n2 DocScrutinizer05, since now n2 They added it in the most recent version password4 i like how we got 3 'm's in SI password4 mu , m , M LuminaxAndro Cutthroat version Duckle n2: I mean, I do have a bike, but I'm fat and the hill is steep DocScrutinizer05 ooh, so they found another "vallue added function" to justify their fucked up licensing? Duckle and it's cold n2 Duckle, the hill /is/ steep password4 next we will have |\/| Duckle so bus bus bus n2 I remember it n2 Fucking nightmare n2 lol tgeeky i can't wait until the day that PCB/schematic/layout/SPICE/EMI simulation is all under the same package n2 tgeeky, all but EMI is in SPICE n2 erh n2 EAGLE n2 lol Duckle I used to bike bike bike, but got pretty bad in the head, and now I'm just happy to show up at uni LuminaxAndro Devalued Added Function n2 Duckle, that happens tgeeky n2: is the spice full featured? n2 I had a massive depression at uni tgeeky or does it have limitations n2 tgeeky, it's a full ngspice tgeeky that's kind of impressive Duckle n2: How'd you get on the other side? n2 You map your schematic components to models in the schem editor LuminaxAndro NoGoodspice? n2 Duckle, medicine and therapy n2 Psychologists are shockingly cheap if you get a referral JyZyXEL where can i find the switches used in behringer mixers? n2 JyZyXEL, open the mixer up n2 Find the part number n2 Go on digikey JyZyXEL they have no part number n2 Then write them and ask joe_z n2, they won't have the exact part joe_z behringer uses cheap shit n2 joe_z, likely not n2 But the original part that China copied n2 :P joe_z digikey wouldn't bother to carry it Duckle n2: so how does that work? Go to your doctor and say "shits fucked in my head yo" n2 Duckle, yep, basically joe_z had this issue just the other week with fixing a behringer mixer for a friend n2 I did n2 Worked fine Duckle and then he says "I'm not equipped to handle that weirdo, talk to my friendo here" joe_z couldn't find any info in english on the manufacturer of the original part (a sliding pot) :D n2 Well, what you do is n2 You go to him to get medicine n2 Then you say you'd like a referral to a psychologist n2 He/she gives you one JyZyXEL yeah im trying to fix the mixer with bad switch contacts JyZyXEL spraying IPA and then contact cleaner did not fix them joe_z JyZyXEL, same issue here, but with a pot JyZyXEL opening one up... wow... n2 Incidentally, I used to study medicine joe_z one wiper went open Duckle n2: Might actually do it n2 I know most of the GPs in Aalborg DocScrutinizer05 n2: that's a highly localized advice JyZyXEL YOU SHOULD NEVER OPEN A SWITCH Duckle n2: Because it's fucking with my studies n2 Yeah, that's not good joe_z but that was because my friend never used a cover, and dust got in the pot n2 If you're in a state that is messing with your life Duckle JyZyXEL: wat n2 Then it warrants, well, treatment JyZyXEL they are _very very very very very_ hard to put back together LuminaxWk aaand back joe_z JyZyXEL, yep n2 DocScrutinizer05, it's specific to Denmark joe_z not impossible though JyZyXEL let me show you :D Duckle DocScrutinizer05: Denmark is 5.5 mil people btw, just for reference :) LuminaxWk oooh Duckle so, yeah, rather local :) LuminaxWk that digital pot looks interesting n2 Duckle, which praktiserende lge do you have? LuminaxWk should be able to hook that up to the MC34063A and do some fancy potting n2 I might be able to tell you a proper approach n2 :P Duckle n2: Dunno. I'd have to check my card JyZyXEL https://i.imgur.com/7Rcq1wG.jpg Duckle whatever was available when I moved here JyZyXEL the red switch is never going back together LuminaxWk now to see if E14 stocks them.... JyZyXEL now, does anyone know what those switches are called though? password4 what do you guys call an roof outside for shade? Duckle JyZyXEL: DPDT latching switch Duckle password4: Halvtag password4 my native to english translator is broken Duckle :P Duckle that's danish password4 in english? n2 password4, a canopy LuminaxWk a canopy :3 password4 thanx , i translated what duckle said Duckle hehe password4 the literall translation from afrikaan is off-roof Duckle JyZyXEL: That doesn't look that complicated flor1an p0g0: ic, thanks Duckle JyZyXEL: You have two contact surfaces that sit on the mainsliding bit, you have the lathing bar, and the spring LuminaxWk hmmm that's a weird number of steps.... 129 ? Duckle man my spelling LuminaxWk 257 ? Duckle main sliding bit, latching bar Shawn|4650M anyone here know how small 22 awg is? joe_z Shawn|4650M, it's 22awg Duckle Shawn|4650M: https://www.google.dk/search?q=awg+to+mm&oq=awg+to+&aqs=chrome.1.69i57j0l5.3771j0j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8 joe_z my point being, put some meaning behind your question.... LuminaxWk ah... that's what a rheostat was... I sorta forgot Duckle I read that as "sorta faggot" n2 Duckle, hell, your doctor might even be my older brother Duckle i've been on reddit too much n2 In which case you should just tell him to shut up and cooperate n2 Duckle, hahahaha Duckle n2: haha n2 Reddit will do that to you Shawn|4650M I have digital calipers out LuminaxWk ACTION roasts Duckle  flor1an p0g0: ah, nice, air quality sensor is on the way already, forgot about it LuminaxWk .wire 22AWG Shawn|4650M is 29mm too big? Duckle LuminaxWk: medium roast please LuminaxWk !wire 22AWG electrobot LuminaxWk: 22AWG (22.7SWG, 0.33mm², 0.64mm dia, 25.3 mils) Cu Wire Free air: 5.24A, Enclosed: 3.52A, Windings: 0.92A, mOhm/Ft: 16.14, mOhm/m: 52.96 Duckle I don't like my coffee too roasted n2 Duckle, oh hell no n2 It must be roasted! n2 If it has to hit my lovely italian espresso maker Duckle not starbucks roasted n2 It has to be well roasted n2 :P n2 Oh, their heavy roast is horrible n2 lol LuminaxWk pft Starbucks n2 LuminaxWk, oi, it's a relatively new thing in Denmark n2 We're so excited n2 !!! Duckle I uhm... have preground beans adsc hey, what kind of software is common for programming of industrial hardware, like machines used to control some electric motors etc.? I only know the hobby world with Arduino and C... LuminaxWk https://www.coffeebean.com/ n2 When McDonalds came to Denmark, studies of the youth culture there was actually carried out n2 lol n2 We are very fascinated, yes we are. n2 Duckle, oh no you don't Duckle n2: I mean, we've had barasso for a while LuminaxWk adsc: in 'Industrial World' they use this thing called a PLC usually n2 Duckle, yeah but they just changed name n2 :D Duckle n2: Peter Larsen nr66 was on offer for 20dkk n2 Hm Duckle 400g n2 I can accept it only because it's decent Duckle I bought 8 bags :S LuminaxWk of course you can turn your Arduino into full blown industrial controller n2 My coffee is Lavazza... Duckle oof Duckle that's spensive n2 Because you could get it with the coupons in Ftex n2 :D n2 lol n2 Cheaper Duckle oh LuminaxWk but there's a lot of steps involved in making sure it's industrial compliant n2 Well I'd buy it anyway p0g0 adsc: SCADA n2 But it was so much cheaper Duckle isnt' that the stuff actually from itally? n2 Used all the shitty coupons, so we have ~15kg n2 Oh, it is Duckle ... wat Duckle 15kg LuminaxWk n2: Duckle: no CoffeeBeans at your place ? n2 yep LuminaxWk too bad :3 n2 15 kilo bags Shawn|4650M so 22awg is 0.64mm? Duckle LuminaxWk: Sure, but the grinder took up too much table space n2 Instead of 150 DKR, they were 69DKR a bag n2 :P Duckle heh adsc LuminaxWk: ok, maybe "industrial" was the wrong term, what I meant was professional, you know in appliances that you buy, like dentist's tools or car onboard software etc. LuminaxWk Duckle: no, I mean the coffee shop I just linked n2 And that can be solved, Duckle p0g0 15 kg bags of coffee? You'd better get to drinking the heck out of that. n2 The coffee machine grinds it :P n2 p0g0, we do. LuminaxWk adsc: most of those stuffs have their own ASICS n2 We go through a single kilogram in a week or so LuminaxWk but some uses your regular ordinary 8-bit/16-bit/32-bit MCUs Duckle n2: You need one of those kickstarter machines that used green beans, roasted ground and brewed adsc LuminaxWk: and those are programmed with regular C? Not something like ACL2 or so? n2 Duckle, yeah except... n2 Getting green beans is a pain in the ass n2 :P p0g0 ACTION has long contemplated the coffee bean bean bag chair, with little heaters and fans to drive the scent past your head... comfy! LuminaxWk regular C mostly adsc ok Duckle n2: Well they were happy to sell them to you ;) LuminaxWk although it'd depends on the MCU and architecture and the development environment you'll be using Duckle RUST :D LuminaxWk most that I've encountered seems to favour C LuminaxWk ACTION WD40s Duckle  LuminaxWk pssssshhhhhh Duckle LuminaxWk: WD40 IS NOT MEMORY SAFE flor1an WD40 is anything-safe. Duckle ACTION segfaults n2 My WD40's tip broke n2 I need a new can flor1an i lost the tip Duckle just the tip flor1an can still full Mead just the tip? flor1an that sucks adsc LuminaxWk: does a dev environment come with the hardware you buy? n2 flor1an, my tip broke. LuminaxWk yep, or they're available (most of the time for free) from the maker's website adsc I see DocScrutinizer05 n2: get a new can, save the tip when empty n2 yeah flor1an n2: i just think we need wd40 by the gallon to feed into an external airless compressor n2 I need to get to the construction store n2 To get a new can flor1an one of these machines you use to spray paint large areas n2 Too lazy today though n2 :P Duckle adsc: embedded stuff is usually C, though some high reliability stuff can be ASM p0g0 WD40 is way down my list of Useful Chemicals. you might be better off with that broken token can. adsc I'm just wondering how to break into the professional world, if I've successfully made a "machine" with hobby tools like Arduino etc. p0g0 flor1an: you don't add oil to a paint sprayer compressor... Duckle adsc: get hired by a company making products LuminaxWk Arduino is, in my opinion, a bad starting place LuminaxWk but eh p0g0 unless you want to muck up the paint. DocScrutinizer05 there are suprising number of different "standards" for spray can tips Duckle You're not far off with arduino tbh flor1an p0g0: i know at least 2 models that'd be able to spray paint wd30 Shawn|4650M I guess the clear copper spool of the 3 spool radioshack enameled wire pack is 22awg flor1an wd40 flor1an and then dispersion again after a quick rinse LuminaxWk https://xkcd.com/927/ adsc LuminaxWk: I've mostly moved on to C now from Arduino code Duckle adsc: Things arduino doesn't teach to: Reading the datasheet flor1an dispersion in german is something i don't know how to translate LuminaxWk Duckle: Arduino obscures too much of the underlying system flor1an basically white color p0g0 flor1an: check out Break Free CLP, it makes WD40 look like piss. n2 Duckle, LuminaxWk n2 Thank you n2 You are completely correct. Duckle LuminaxWk: It gets people in :) LuminaxWk while it's good for modular, quick turnaround, surface level programming flor1an p0g0: but... muh wd40 religion... LuminaxWk once you get into the hardcore nitty gritty level you'd wish you started with PIC/AVR Duckle and when you want to mess with PWM freqeuncies and such, you're gonna fiddle with registers :) Duckle LuminaxWk: Arduino is AVR LuminaxWk on the underside, yes flor1an p0g0: next you tell me gaffa tape is inferior? *shivers* p0g0 not all arduinos are AVR Duckle you can almost ignore arduino entirely LuminaxWk but none of the underlying system is exposed Duckle p0g0: Not anymore no Duckle but meh Duckle the SAM ARM stuff is... arduino ish p0g0 flor1an: nah, I will try to stay in my lane. LuminaxWk Arduino is, after all, an ecosystem of abstractions and libraries Duckle yea flor1an p0g0: very much appreciated, thank you sir. Duckle LuminaxWk: In my eyes, arduino serves as a way to lower the learning curve Drakonite LuminaxWk, not so much that it's not exposed as that there are wrappers people use, and almost no one bothers to look at the exposed underbelly LuminaxWk Drakonite: true LuminaxWk it's exposed, just never looked at Duckle I'm still surprised at how slow digitalwrite is flor1an p0g0: anyways there hasn't been a case where WD40 or gaffa tape wouldn't have solved the problem at hand. Duckle flor1an: Tell Shawn|4650M that Viper-7 LuminaxWk: there are many other models btw, that was just an example LuminaxWk also Duckle : I came from electronics background, more specifically analog flor1an so i REALLY DO WONDER whats going on above Viper-7 (first one google returned) flor1an Duckle: y? LuminaxWk digpot ? Viper-7 yeah LuminaxWk mmhmm, thanks Shawn|4650M tell me what? Duckle flor1an: Just, a joke we said earlier. ducttape and wd40 won't solve everything ;) flor1an Shawn|4650M: lved the problem at hand. flor1an 09:56:45 < Duckle> flor1an: Tell Shawn|4650M that flor1an oh FUCK IT LuminaxWk Duckle: my first brush with the 'micro' soft/hard combination is with Motorola's 6800 ;) adsc so is PIC or AVR also used professionally, or is it just for hobbyists? LuminaxWk THAT was the era when your ROM is a PROM password4 what happens when you spray wd40 on ductape? LuminaxWk none of these EEPROM bullshit :P Viper-7 as for what i've been up to lately, just took a bunch of screenshots of my minecraft-ing :P https://imgur.com/a/Q25Dh flor1an Shawn|4650M: anyways there hasn't been a case where WD40 or gaffa tape wouldn't have solved the problem at hand. flor1an that ^ (now THAT was hard.) LuminaxWk I'd take a picture of my Black Desert empire but eh... Viper-7 password4: you get slime :P Shawn|4650M i know that n2 Duckle, at least he disappeared LuminaxWk o.O n2 After magically finding a 34063 n2 Oh shit flor1an i sometimes do reggae festival 'infrastructure' n2 He didn't n2 :D LuminaxWk are you playing minecraft or farmville? rofl flor1an believe you me wd40/gaffa are the gods eirirs farming simulator Shawn|4650M N2 Ive had it Duckle LuminaxWk: My first brush was PIC ASM Duckle RISC is pretty neat :) LuminaxWk nice Shawn|4650M I was going to use it to make a 12v to 8.3v down converter Duckle PIC 16F something Shawn|4650M but that 12 volt battery is not very good Shawn|4650M this is more sensible DocScrutinizer05 ACTION headdesks a little LuminaxWk although I have to say, Motorola have the nicest ASM out of all the things I've had the opportunity of ASM-ing LuminaxWk but that might be just me :3 n2 LuminaxWk, ARM is actually nice. n2 Especially the, well, more CPU-oriented feature. Vector math and such. LuminaxWk n2: never had the chance to ASM it, might try one day LuminaxWk I'm still waiting for my new job offer n2 LuminaxWk, https://github.com/dhkris/fastarm/blob/master/lib/fa_crypt_rc4.s n2 RC4 implementation in ARM assembly LuminaxWk they said they'll provide me with my own personal lab...... n2 Wrote that one tired summer day n2 :P synx508 PIC assembler is fun, particularly on the older chips Duckle I'm with eirirs Duckle he knows what's up synx508 Also using the 16C was far better for learning than the 16F, because if you made a mistake it was an entire UV erase cycle to fix it DocScrutinizer05 RC4? DocScrutinizer05 the IR code? p0g0 JAL was a decent language for PICs, long ago, anyway. n2 DocScrutinizer05, Ron's Cipher 4 Duckle An ATtiny9 microcontroller that plays a chiptune. Duckle Because 32 bytes of RAM should be enough for everyone. n2 It's a stream encryption thing Duckle https://github.com/dop3j0e/noiseplug Duckle I love that project :P Duckle and I love that tagline Duckle 32 bytes of ram Viper-7 LuminaxWk: heh :P well yeah focus for the past few days has been on that farm, switching all my power generation over from pumped & refined oil, to biofuel - just coded the computer monitor thing today to keep track of what stuff in the farm is over vs under producing n2 Duckle, oi! LuminaxWk Farmcraft n2 I have some 24 byte RAM PICs lying around. Viper-7 higher tech stuff coming soon, i should have a fusion reactor online by the weekend :P LuminaxWk oooh LuminaxWk when are you gonna install a hyperloop? heheh Viper-7 :P LuminaxWk so.... speaking of PICs and AVRs.... and SAM Viper-7 if you havent seen it, this was my old tokamak https://imgur.com/a/0ykUT tgeeky it's just an asian fusion reactor, he's going to shoot chinese and italian food at each other and see what recipies result LuminaxWk Keysight's DAQ 'switching module' is nothing but relay boards controlled with an ATSAM Viper-7 all those computer displays are custom code (in lua -_-) synx508 I'm more impressed by Tom's Diner in a 328p than a chiptune in a Tinytiny tbh LuminaxWk your...crafting room reminds me of Wolfenstein tgeeky Viper-7: way too much time on your hands Duckle n2: could be fun Duckle n2: I've got a spartan 6 devboard laying around Duckle those are fun! n2 Those /are/ fun Viper-7 this was the last time i built the type of fusion reactor i'm going for this time https://imgur.com/a/6vUdQ Duckle n2: https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/fleafpga-ohm-fpga-experimenter-board-arduino#/ n2 yep n2 The guy wrote me a PM Viper-7 the proper tokamak was just wayyy too much - both effort to build, and resources to run - my computer slowed to like 1 fps while it was running Duckle hmm. I still have time to back that.. I don't have a need for one though Duckle uugh the time preassure n2 Duckle, Right now though n2 I'm more interested in an FPAA n2 :P n2 I've been meaning to order some for some time Duckle Field Programmable Alcohol Array? n2 Almost n2 Analog Array n2 ;-) Viper-7 tgeeky: i havent played it in like 3 years, so while i have a month between jobs i'm diving back in for a while :D password4 n2 are you getting one? Duckle n2: ooh n2 password4, yeah password4 i ordered mine yesterday night n2 I'm pretty much decided n2 To buy some Anadigm boards LuminaxWk Duckle: n2: I have a shit tons of PAL/GAL :3 password4 I've been reading FreerangeVHDL password4 i forgot how nice a nice handbook is Viper-7 oh, Flea86 reached his target? nice :D Duckle n2: Why did you have to make me aware of FPAAs password4 by like 150+% n2 Duckle, because Duckle now I have to be amazed that that's a thing password4 someone bought 20 Duckle I don't have the capacity :P n2 Anadigm is discontinuing their 5V line n2 so n2 The demo boards are cheap n2 :P LuminaxWk nice Viper-7 of course he launched it like the day i lost my old job Duckle Viper-7: They're not expensive tbh LuminaxWk so I can ask for pointers from Flea86 if I want to open my kickstarter/IGG Viper-7 and i'm still broke for another month now, so i cant back it Viper-7 Duckle: im on govt welfare atm, more than i can afford atm Duckle same :( Duckle the broke part Shawn|4650M on figure 15 of page 9 in this manuual, what is the marking for the far right inductor in the board? Duckle I'm just bad at managing my money, so yea Shawn|4650M 87* ? DocScrutinizer05 n2: it's really hard to get the catch of those FPAAs Viper-7 my old job paid about $450 a week, welfare pays about$310 a week, new job pays $1700 a week Duckle oof ewong woooow Duckle I'm paid 600$ a month LuminaxWk I..... LuminaxWk nevermind Duckle by the state though, so uhm. I can't complain Duckle while attending uni for free n2 ACTION pays Duckle to become talented n2 :P n2 Indirectly, yes n2 But still n2 :P Duckle hey I paid taxes too :P Duckle I've worked since I was 13 password4 well if you are attending Uni Duckle because it wasn't legally allowed before password4 i would go back to uni for $600 Duckle hehe Duckle yep Duckle it's pretty sweet password4 become an fpga master LuminaxWk I only want that piece of paper Duckle I was just used to 5600 USD/month income during my gap year Duckle where I was also still living at home, so basically no expenses LuminaxWk I've found out that knowledge of Uni is only useful to you, but never get appreciated by the people who hire you :| Viper-7 i dont like being on welfare, but its got me out of trouble here - my last employer didnt fire me or such, just stopped giving me hours - and kept stringing me along for the last fortnight telling me he had work to give me to get on with, until the fortnight was over and i'd logged no hours, and had no savings LuminaxWk but show them some impressive looking paper and wow! Duckle LuminaxWk: Might be different here Viper-7 now i've got this new job which pays great, but doesnt start till early december n2 Duckle, So, you can assemble my kits n2 Great n2 I'll pay you minimum wage n2 :P password4 fucking hell n2 (The kits I make, not just random ass kits) n2 :P Duckle LuminaxWk: There's companies out here each month tring to hire students LuminaxWk so anyway, I got my RN2903A module going Viper-7 mmm, ass kits password4 if i got 5600$ a month , i could retire in like a year or 5 LuminaxWk unfortunately I have no LoRa gateway to test it with :D Duckle n2: uuuhm, yes? :D n2 Duckle, http://priv.david.promo/sake-5.pdf n2 go n2 ! n2 :P LuminaxWk ACTION considers driving uptown to where there's a LoRa TheThingsnetwork gateway LuminaxWk or riding Viper-7 yah, i'll be on $5450 a month Duckle n2: Holy danm. that better be a brick wall of a Lowpass to warrant that level of complexity! Viper-7 (US) Viper-7$7100 AUD n2 Duckle, it's not. n2 :P n2 It's two pole n2 BUT it is voltage controlled Duckle oh n2 The cutoff is variable with a simple input voltage n2 and it's not built on an operational transconductance amplifier n2 So thats an achievement in and of itself :P Duckle that's pretty neat n2 Duckle, http://priv.david.promo/sake-8.jpg DocScrutinizer05 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FmX3MGX9RYU n2 The prototype board... Viper-7 after tax, rent, bills, food, transport, etc - i should have about US$3000/mo profit n2 ACTION is still working on the PCBs electrobot DocScrutinizer05 just linked to Frank Zappa - Dummy Up - YouTube Duckle n2: And you're using jellybean trannies too n2 Duckle, yep. But, consider it. n2 What is a transistor but a current-controlled impedance? Duckle n2: heck, I'd love to do the PCB stuff too :) n2 The only thing to watch out for is the DC biasing n2 Which is why an NPN and PNP together constitute the resistance Duckle n2: s/transistor/bjt/ ;) Viper-7 n2: when its a mosfet, and is voltage controlled instead :P n2 Yeah n2 I caught that one too n2 :P n2 ALTHOUGH! n2 To fill that gate-source and gate-drain capacitance... n2 Current /is/ needed... n2 :P Duckle bjts are voltage controlled too :P n2 Duckle, yeah DocScrutinizer05 >>Jeff Simmons tries to corrupt Napoleon Murphy Brock by showing him a lewd dance and suggesting that he'd smoke a high-school diploma...)<< n2 but, anyway, in a reductionist viewpoint, it's a CCR Duckle just, yaknow that diode junction IV curve is fun Viper-7 yeah, if you wanna split hairs, both are both n2 So glue an NPN and a PNP together n2 And you've got a linear (with current) resistor n2 That can be varied with the input voltage (-> current) Duckle Viper-7: if you're splitting split hairs, can a mosfet be said to be current controlled? n2 Duckle, yep n2 The input capacitances Duckle the current isn't controlling anything at steady state, the charge on the plate is Viper-7 Duckle: from certain perspectives, yes n2 The switching action is current controlled DocScrutinizer05 s/Napoleon Murphy Brock/ LuminaxWk/ Duckle moving between states is current dependent Viper-7 Duckle: you added "at steady state", that wasnt specified before Viper-7 the whole point is while its within the linear region n2 Also, Duckle Duckle hehe Duckle fair n2 The straight ahead solution would be to use JFETs or MOSFETs LuminaxWk DocScrutinizer05: I'd smoke it if it's Bradford's A-Class Masters Degree in Electronics n2 But they perform worse, and less linearly n2 Than those BJTs n2 :P Duckle anyways, n2 I'd love to look at a PCB design :P Duckle if you don't find that fun n2 Also, Duckle n2 They also work in oscillators :P n2 And hehe. :D n2 Up to a point I do n2 :P DocScrutinizer05 Now the next step of this operation: The evil corrupter of youth is going to take him from Step One, Which is a mere high-school diploma stuffed with a gym sock, To Step Two, Which is a college-degree stuffed with absolutely nothing at all. Smoke that and it'll really get you out there!... n2 Duckle, http://ee.david.promo/vco-1.JPG Duckle but I gotta go with the group to work on tasks, or at least listen in n2 Variable ramp/frequency VCO n2 Using the same BJT control principle n2 :P n2 Ahh the groups n2 Have fun Duckle this is what I'm working on, and why I'm extra broke this month :P https://github.com/Duckle29/let-s-Split-v2/tree/socket-reverseable Viper-7 last time i played with IR transmitters i used a BJT as a resistor - didnt have many low value resistors around - the transistor let me control current via a high value pot Viper-7 20mA? pfft, throw 200mA at it, its only a burst :P DocScrutinizer05 >> No no, the college degree is stuffed with absolutely nothing at all You get, you get nothing with your college-degree...<< LuminaxWk but seriously though LuminaxWk they don't really look at experience here LuminaxWk which is..... sad DocScrutinizer05 >>A true Zen saying: Nothing is what I want. The results of a higher education...<< Shawn|4650M so I have a 2.2 labeled falco inductor from an old graphics card, is there a way to determine the uH to that? p0g0 DocScrutinizer05: I got a nice piece of paper with my name on it! Viper-7 probably 2.2uH LuminaxWk although it's ironically interesting that I've never landed an Electronic related job up until NOW LuminaxWk and I started working in 2008 :| LuminaxWk there was one that I thought was related, but it ended up being an inspection company for leadframe maker Viper-7 the rules are, first two digits are the base value in microhenries, followed by a multiplier digit that specifies the number of zeros following the base value - unless the number contains a decimal point (often an R is used instead of .), in which case its all the base value, eg 4R7 is 4.7uH n2 except n2 When the rules aren't followed Viper-7 ^^ Duckle Fight the power! n2 Duckle, gonna make that into a kit. n2 The premium kit will use germanium transistors. n2 They perform better. Guess why :P Duckle lower Vf :) n2 Yep n2 => less potential DC bias Shawn|4650M so 3r3 is 3.3uH? LuminaxWk anyway...is Ali relays reliable, you say, Viper-7 ? Duckle and because they almost have germany in the name n2 And because they are reliably low gain n2 And low gain is desirable n2 In this case :P Viper-7 LuminaxWk: AvE did a (rather subjective) test recently comparing chinesium to omron relays - the omron was guaranteed to 5 million cycles, the chinesium one crapped out after 2-3 million - also the contacts were only properly rated for the COM <> NO part, the COM <> NC parts on the chinesium relay were far thinner and would wear out sooner Viper-7 that all said, if you dont need more than 2 million cycles, they're quite fine. LuminaxWk probably not LuminaxWk hmmm.... n2 Duckle, by that logic I should try gallium arsenide HBT's n2 Because gallium is almost france n2 :P Duckle well Duckle why would you want anything french? Duckle :P n2 I like blow jobs? n2 y'know n2 French... Duckle ordnung must sein! Duckle that's vaguely german if I'm lucky n2 Almost Viper-7 kinda sorta almost not quite nearly n2 Replace the t in must with an s n2 And you're there Duckle ooops Duckle I'm tired. I got up at 00:00 LuminaxWk so one relay board, based on rough calculations, will last around 240 days in my case Viper-7 fuck.dat LuminaxWk which is less than a year.... hmmm Duckle LuminaxWk: Get crydom relays Duckle or well, any name brand high cycle count relays LuminaxWk nope n2 Duckle, https://ibb.co/ggUBVm n2 At least I have heat sinks LuminaxWk I'm just going to get a bunch of these Chinesium ones LuminaxWk and let them crap out n2 That look vaguely like a starfighter n2 From some sci fi movie n2 ... n2 :P Duckle n2: I am more than slightly annoyed at that image LuminaxWk that'll teach them what 'cost cutting' without proper planning means Duckle those pegs are for the PCB to savage Duckle s/to/you Viper-7 mount like 4 to the board per channel and trigger them round-robin :P LuminaxWk sure, cost cutting is important Viper-7 probably still cheaper than brand name ones n2 Duckle, yeah n2 If it were a PCB LuminaxWk but when you cut cost on critical parts but expect stellar performance Duckle Viper-7: Eh, they're not that bad LuminaxWk fuck.dat n2 But for protoboard purposes n2 You just mount it the other way around n2 :P n2 Same heat transfer Duckle n2: I usually prototype on PCBs too Duckle :P n2 Well... n2 I hate etching n2 And it takes a week for me to get them home :P Duckle easyEDA, seeed fusion, oshpark Duckle dirtypcbs n2 AND I can't afford the huge CnC mill I want Duckle I'll wait n2 Meh, I do mostly analog stuff n2 I don't always trust SPICE n2 So I prefer doing "breadboarding" before spinning the PCB Duckle fair Duckle actual bread boarding is fun Duckle we did that in 7. klasse Viper-7 Duckle: "quality" ones have vaguely 2.5 times longer lifespan Viper-7 so yeah, 3 per channel if you want to approximate :P Viper-7 (keeping in mind you now have 3 different points of failure, and the first of any of them to die means the whole unit is unreliable) Viper-7 hence 4 :P Duckle actual brass nails hammered into a wooden "bread board" n2 Haha. p0g0 I've found the chinesium 8 channel relays to be Really Sensitive to how the logic vs coils are powered- and since they come with from the factory with those two Vs jumpered together, one has to make an effort to get that right. Duckle n2: That's where the name comes from :) n2 I know! Duckle https://i.stack.imgur.com/EPuOZ.png LuminaxWk Viper-7: just use socket mounted type, and buy a truckload of them ? Duckle we actually did that :D Duckle and made the classic by-stable multivibrator circuit password4 Duckle: :C n2 Duckle, https://image.ibb.co/mYgTTG/IMG_1166.jpg LuminaxWk I need a way to force my boss to buy me the cabinet I wanted n2 For educational purposes n2 :P Viper-7 LuminaxWk: that works too - assuming a failure will be noticed and a replacement easily swapped in LuminaxWk but then again, I'm about to say fuckit to this place anyway so I'm torn password4 I'm so going to make a vibrator brand called bystable p0g0 LuminaxWk: extortion? Duckle n2: Neat LuminaxWk Viper-7: I can easily make a detection circuit wired to the MCU n2 Duckle, (gonna make a video) LuminaxWk p0g0: nothing so crude Duckle you have a yt channel? p0g0 crude? n2 Yeah but it's not electronic'y yet Duckle gotcha n2 I do have some hundred thousand views password4 wait , is that your bistable Viper-7 LuminaxWk: just remember the NC vs NO thing LuminaxWk extortion is crude :3 n2 and a few subscribers n2 So I'm rebranding it n2 :P LuminaxWk Viper-7: aye Viper-7 you cant validate that the NO output is good by testing NC LuminaxWk hmmm.....true Viper-7 its typically the contacts that wear, not the mechanism itself n2 Gonna do it in a hand-drawn style Duckle p0g0: Nah I found that image on google n2 Hence the ... black marker annotations Viper-7 but that also means wear depends on the loading Duckle oh wait, I'm retarted, astable Duckle Astable Multivibrator LuminaxWk so I can perhaps make a 'checking routine' that'll routinely checks all relays every month or so ? Duckle http://www.electronics-tutorials.ws/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/tim20.gif Viper-7 in AvE's test he was running an amp or so through them iirc, so yeah the NO contacts were entirely gone when it failed LuminaxWk or just schedule a replacement every 2 months or so p0g0 Viper-7: That too, loading too much amperage on any one relay, in my experience, just eats them right up. LuminaxWk *sigh* I really don't want to think too much about it LuminaxWk I'm already wiping a lot of other people's butt in this company LuminaxWk thankfully they can't fling their shits at me anymore ever since I made a habit of putting everything in black and white Duckle Viper-7: Wait just 1A_ Duckle ? LuminaxWk ...like the Murata resonator out-of-spec case Viper-7 LuminaxWk: if you wanna go super deep, you might be able to profile the relay based on eg the contact bounce pattern from switching - i'd bet it changes over time, and you could detect the health of a relay externally Duckle I was running ~5.5A through one for a radiator controller in a shed Viper-7 Duckle: yeah, they were only the small relays as seen on those 8/16ch boards Duckle I mean, the relay was rated for 10A Viper-7 those are entirely different Duckle wasn't that big though Viper-7 horn relays are much more robust LuminaxWk detects the bouncing edges/pattern? that's an interesting thought Duckle Viper-7: horn? LuminaxWk klaxon Viper-7 Duckle: thats the common name for them Viper-7 the 10A/20A automotive relays Viper-7 little 5 bladed cubes Duckle Viper-7: http://www.elexp.biz/comp/RG5Q1DC12.jpg LuminaxWk mmmmm big clunky chunky black boxes Viper-7 (or 4) Duckle Viper-7: Looked like that, but transparrent n2 Duckle, https://ufile.io/94elt Duckle it's a Form C n2 Enjoy my amazing drawing skills electrobot n2 just linked to uploadfiles.io (Uploadfiles.io - pd.pdf) Viper-7 https://www.jaycar.com.au/medias/sys_master/images/9000915173406/horn-relay-60a-spdtImageMain-300.jpg LuminaxWk those are signal relays Duckle Viper-7 they claim 70A on those LuminaxWk or... well maybe industrial relays Duckle LuminaxWk: Odd that it was rated at 10A 250V then Duckle one hell of a signal ;P LuminaxWk a bit sort of like omron's industrial DC24 AC100 AC240 ones LuminaxWk although those are a bit bigger and different form factor Duckle 6v coil :P Duckle run at 5v, 100mA Duckle the coil that is LuminaxWk Duckle: medium signal then ;P Duckle hehe Viper-7 these are the relays i was talking about https://gloimg.gbtcdn.com/gb/pdm-product-pic/Electronic/2016/10/29/source-img/20161029160058_52359.JPG p0g0 Viper-7: what kind of money does that auto 60a 12v relay cost? LuminaxWk 'Tongling' LuminaxWk are those BJTs ? Viper-7 p0g0:$6 from jaycar, so that probably means <$1 from any decent supplier Viper-7 LuminaxWk: optos Duckle Here's the controller: https://imgur.com/a/xWjFx LuminaxWk ahh LuminaxWk that'll be preferable, then? Duckle you can see the relay glued down on it's head, with a transistor on the coil :) p0g0 Viper-7: well, I'll just have to try some destructive testing on some of those... they look like a better heavy lift vehicle for my leaden dreams. Viper-7 LuminaxWk: can be, typically inductive spikes through the base of a driving transistor isnt a big issue (especially if the coil has proper suppression with a flyback diode or such) - the real issue is the noise the coils put on the supply rails - you want an independent supply for the coils, or at least its own filtering and wiring for ballast resistance - not directly from your micro's supply rails, even if that rail can handle the current Viper-7 p0g0: probably better value (and easier to source) from automotive suppliers rather than electronics ones, but yeah, they do damn well for moderate currents at low voltage DC LuminaxWk ah.... LuminaxWk that could be the reason my ADC's throwing up LSB error Duckle n2: See that orange block in the album I linked? :) Drakonite Viper-7, relays? My experience is automotive supplies mark then up worse than anyone else n2 It's beautiful Duckle 5v 200mA PSU Duckle it's pretty cool n2 Cool! Duckle 1W power supply :D JyZyXEL Duckle: done! i actually got it back together due to your optimism! :D Duckle JyZyXEL: :D JyZyXEL holy crap that was a Process Viper-7 eg its common for people to grab one of those boards and a raspberry pi, hook it all up to a beefy 5V rail (eg an ATX supply), and wonder why their rpi reboots every time they change states of the relays n2 ACTION recently made a heater/oven controller n2 For stuff like zener diodes and other references n2 :P Duckle the key to putting things back together is patience, and taking them appart sloooooowly in the first place :P n2 I've been meaning to adapt it n2 To, well, regulate 230V AC n2 A thyristor or TRIAC Duckle oof aib are all transfers on I²C master-initiated? all those mentions of "four modes" and no explicit statement of this makes me doubt myself Duckle master says "give me info" slave gives info Duckle slaves don't speak unless spoken to n2 OH YES n2 I FORGOT n2 Dinner is gonna be AWESOME tonight Duckle I do that often n2 :P Viper-7 Drakonite: shrug, last time i tried to buy one locally they were$6 at jaycar, and i checked across the road at repco and they had em for $3 Duckle forget n2 ACTION made tortillas yesterday p0g0 My experience with the relay boards has led me to want to power the coils independantly, and I have found that using a shielded cable grounded only at the source end for the logic, and (in my case) the 5v supply from the MCU board to run the relay's optoisolator logic are all helpful in making the relays last and work without trashing the MCU or such. Viper-7 this was a fair few years ago mind you, so eh n2 And they're gonna be better tonight aib right, that's what I thought. thanks Duckle n2: What are you having for dinner? n2 Duckle, tortillas :P Duckle can't leave us hanging like that Duckle ooh n2 I get to work from home n2 So I am the housewife n2 basically n2 :P Duckle I'd love that Drakonite Viper-7, few years ago a friend needed some relays for the blinker circuit on his bike. He bought them online for ~$4 each IIRC. Local autoparts stores wanted something like $20 each p0g0 hmm, working from the house means you never leave work... n2 Also n2 I need a new shelf system n2 https://image.ibb.co/b1ChNb/IMG_1117.jpg n2 That's my pro n2 *prototyping IC shelf n2 Or, the bigger one of the two n2 There's another one... Drakonite p0g0, serious reply: that's part of why you have a dedicated office/workshop. So you can "go to work" and you can "leave work". It can make a pretty significant mental difference. Duckle n2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbRsGL2lCqA p0g0 ACTION wonders if he should clean and organize his electronics bench... electrobot Duckle just linked to StorageBot - Behind The Scenes - YouTube Viper-7 looking online at autobarn, yeah, jaycar are still$5.95 and autobarn are $11.95 n2 Yep, need one of those, Duckle Viper-7 ebay is around$3 Viper-7 or you can probably grab em 5 for a dollar from a wreckers :P p0g0 Drakonite: that helps, I found it better to have a seperate building. Shawn186 wow winding is hard LuminaxWk I used to have contacts at omron who passes me 'QC failed' small signal relays and industrial relays in small numbers for cheap :p p0g0 Damn, the Santa Rosa fires got the HP archives... so much for history... joe_z p0g0, yeah, saw that the other day joe_z what a shame Viper-7 n2: the drawer for oled displays seems a little optimistic :P Viper-7 and lol at the flavours of 555 LuminaxWk I do have some NE555 :o n2 Viper-7, the OLED one is there because I have a shit ton of them n2 :P n2 Those small ones Viper-7 i only ever seem to have one spare Viper-7 as soon as a second arrives, i use the first in a project Duckle epapapah Viper-7 yeah i want some of those Duckle I'm amazed you understood that p0g0 the rest of us are still wondering... Duckle ePaper Duckle waveshare has some modules Duckle tri color even Viper-7 also these would be nice http://www.buydisplay.com/default/yellow-spi-2-8-inch-oled-arduino-256x64-graphic-module-breakout-board Viper-7 http://www.buydisplay.com/default/spi-oled-manufacturer-256x64-display-panel-supplier-green-on-black LuminaxWk oooh that reminded me LuminaxWk I still haven't utilized that 'For ArduinoMega' TFT display LuminaxWk maybe I should buy a Mega2560 Viper-7 Duckle: the markup from the bare display to the modules seems pretty darn steep tho Viper-7 they charge more for the breakout board than the display itself Viper-7 so i wanna have a go at making the board myself LuminaxWk hmmm Duckle Viper-7: The board is little more than a connector Duckle so, yea LuminaxWk 64x64 RGB LED display.... Viper-7 Duckle: there are some active components on it, but yeah its still not "hard" LuminaxWk that's 4096 LEDs :O Duckle Viper-7: Do they amount to any more than levelshifters and maaaybe a buck converter? n2 Duckle, typically a charge pump as well n2 On top of the buck converter n2 :P Viper-7 Duckle: yeah its power supply stuffs - i think the display itself contains an smps controller, but you need external transistors, inductors and caps Drakonite LuminaxWk, I've had use for 64x64 or 128x128 RGB display that was on the order of 3"-4" Viper-7 still, there are example schematics and whatnot that seem easy enough to implement Viper-7 and i have all the parts they require already on hand Viper-7 LuminaxWk: the RGB LED display i was playing with was 32x16, so 512 RGB pixels, aka 1536 LEDs LuminaxWk uh.... not using those RGB LEDs ? Viper-7 nope Viper-7 just an assload of shift registers LuminaxWk cool Viper-7 with the code i had, i figured i could run up to 64x32 without any big changes LuminaxWk how do they mix? the R and the G and the B Johnsen such shifter Johnsen pfft Johnsen i have 1 hour this evening to make my halloween costume Johnsen if i wanna add ledstrips i'll have to code fast :p Duckle Viper-7: Ben the science dude on youtube just did a video on them Duckle ben krasnov Duckle or something Drakonite Applied Science Duckle that's the one Drakonite okay, bai! Duckle he got 10v on the com grid Drakonite he wrote a custom firmware that skipped most of the refresh process, which cuts down on the life of the display but refreshes much faster Duckle eeeh, he cut down on the refresh, but he was fairly confident it wouldn't hurt the display Duckle if used responsibly ;) Duckle that is, as he did, moved the text he rendered slowly across the screen to prevent burn in Shawn186 I did 37/38 turns of 22 awg wire and my chinese tester came up with 0.02mH Drakonite er, he said flat out that it would build up a charge over time and reduce the life of the display, unless he also did full refreshes regularly to clear out the charge Duckle Drakonite: Was that with his code? Shawn186 .03mH rather Drakonite Yes Duckle I was half asleep when I watched that video Viper-7 bahh, my net dropped Viper-7 what was my last line? Duckle Viper-7: With the code I had, i figured Duckle .. Drakonite [05:04:13] <+Viper-7> with the code i had, i figured i could run up to 64x32 without any big changes Johnsen oh :/ i thought this story was over :p Viper-7 the normal protocol for those matrix units are to have 2 or 3 bank select lines (so 4 or 8 banks respectively), and either one or two sets of 3x serial input lines, one for each color Viper-7 mine had 2 bank lines and one set of RGB inputs, so 5 control lines in total - select bank 0, dump out 128 values to each of 3 different serial data lines, then repeat for banks 1, 2 and 3 Viper-7 and because the display is "dumb", it cant do any brightness control internally, so you have to do those full frame updates at kHz or such, so you can PWM the elements yourself externally Viper-7 proper drivers get fancy with that interleaved pwm stuff, eg instead of 11110000 for 50% duty, they send 10101010 so you get faster, less noticable flicker from the PWM dimming Viper-7 but yeah, either way its a remarkably huge amount of data to throw around Johnsen hackery Viper-7 i had mine down to like a 40ns pixel clock, overclocking the shit out of an stm32 Duckle 1440p 240Hz monitors must be fun to design Duckle they usually use strobed backlight too synx508 a monitor that's just one giant pixel synced to your brain's scan rate Johnsen i'll show you my giant pixel Duckle the pixel 2 XL? p0g0 The Clockwork Orange Display? Johnsen i want vector displays back synx508 I want all my user interfaces to be implemented using live action theatre with real actors password4 https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=net.antigroup.screamingphone&rdid=net.antigroup.screamingphone Duckle I want cheap flip-dot displays Duckle cheap being the important part synx508 actually, yes, that password4 you want expensive ones? Duckle ... Duckle only if the mexicans pay for it Johnsen i can't stand the noise password4 I've been considering making large epaper displays synx508 or a display where every pixel is an apple and its rate of decay is controlled electrically synx508 update rate might suck Duckle ... ok now it's getting uhm Johnsen make a 7seg clock where every segment gets filled/drained with colored liquid password4 well i need to finish the large 7-segment display first Purec random question, but would you say that electronics is an expensive or a frugal hobby in your case? Duckle Johnsen: Glowstick liquid Duckle Purec: Expensive password4 yesterday I dumpster dove a diffuser Johnsen i have 100 glowsticks to use this evening for haloween synx508 you already have enough materials for nearly 2 characters password4 Purec: expensive even if you are frugal imho joe_z Purec, in my experience, frugal joe_z I have fixed stuff with my knowledge of electronics, and saved much money that way joe_z I have managed to get cheap used equipment Johnsen i got em to get the babes synx508 dumpster dove, not some kind of bin pigeon, despite what my brain tells me joe_z if you're patient and resourceful, you might manage the same Johnsen girls love glowsticks :p n2 Purec, expensive. n2 Very expensive p0g0 Purec: compared to what, horses, fast cars, butterfly collections? Shawn186 :( https://imgur.com/gallery/TlwhL Johnsen i'd trade my car for a diffuser joe_z the most expensive thing I own is my though-hole rework station, and that was only $100 joe_z and that payed for itself Johnsen i need a car accident joe_z well, more like$150 if you count tips and parts Johnsen my car is now half a year old and i want the automatic version with performance pack :p Johnsen its 0.4 sec faster to 100kmh :p Purec what would be your annual expense in the parts and tools relating to electronics in a hobby sense Johnsen depends Johnsen when i was young and had too much moneys i bought a lot of useless crap Johnsen boxes full of ICs i'll never use etc synx508 I rarely fail to buy something that I don't use. Johnsen i do, i have more ideas than motivation synx508 no no, what I mean is I always buy some stuff that I don't use Johnsen such english Johnsen :p joe_z Purec, my pure expense? about $100 personally p0g0 I guess it is cheaper than opiate addiction... Johnsen hehe joe_z but the gain in assets I get as a result? >$100 joe_z (therefore, profit) Johnsen aliexpress = like buying shoes for women joe_z parts I buy are to fix stuff joe_z when stuff is fixed, it's worth more than the parts were synx508 I am not allowing myself to use aliexpress joe_z when I'm not fixing stuff, I scavenge parts p0g0 joe_z: do you actaully get paid? Johnsen its full of great stuff joe_z p0g0, sometimes, yes joe_z I have fixed stuff semi-professionally joe_z no official business, but I have been paid to do so on a number of occasions joe_z aside from that, I fix stuff for myself to use, mostly stuff from the trash joe_z now I won't reveal what I make hourly doing that stuff ;) joe_z (hint, it's not impressive) Drakonite I think I'm going to setup a budget to spend on random parts; just a couple dollars a week. Basically eat ramen once or twice a week and spend the saved money on random bits and bobs. Johnsen ofc its not joe_z but if I enjoy the work, and nothing better to do, why not? Johnsen noone assumed repairing stuff makes good money :p joe_z the last time I fixed something for someone, I think I was paid $120 Viper-7 hmm, wtf at my net >.< Shawn186 Hello? joe_z after parts, I probably only made about$60 Purec Johnsen, what was it that you fixed? joe_z I spent a LOT of time on that POS atari upgrade... synx508 Drakonite, I use the difference between the price of the components I need for a project and the minimum price for "free shipping" whenever I buy work stuff joe_z took me a long time to track down a noise issue, finally a couple 10pF caps fixed the thing Viper-7 Drakonite: thats what i've done for years :P about $10 a week budget for ali crap - it adds up over time to quite the collection, and theres a constant dribble of packages arriving Shawn186 does that look like 22awg wire to you? Drakonite synx508, eh, ordering from ali, the cheaper the order the more likely it is free shipping joe_z Purec, were you talking to me? Purec to Johnsen synx508 Drakonite, yes, but I don't allow myself to use aliexpress Johnsen i don't repair stuff, i brrak it joe_z Purec, I was the one who said he fixed stuff, which is why I thought maybe you made a mistake Johnsen i have a samsung lcd tv with broken psu Purec oh Purec right Johnsen but i think i'm just gonna order a new psu board Purec sorry yeah joe_z joe_z I have recapped PSUs for some stuff joe_z LCD monitors mostly Johnsen bleh Johnsen too lazy for that joe_z taken from uni trash, sold for profit Purec i'd thought people just replace the whole thing Johnsen also nothing looks visually broken so i dont feel like going through every cap Drakonite I was trying to get setup to do some work building custom cables for someone last year. Would have just been minimum wage, but would have been interesting/fun to do for a while (and the guy could use someone that'd do good work and not rip him off, for once). Sadly he had someone else do it in the end. Purec probably be cheaper to Purec to an extent joe_z I have fixed atari computers joe_z I've done a couple mods on old consoles, composite mods and whatnot Viper-7 Purec: depends how much you value your time :P joe_z I have fixed a few CRT TVs and monitors joe_z Viper-7, exactly Purec yeah Viper-7 Viper-7 if its a personal project, and you're using your spare time, its not billable hours, so its cheaper to fix it yourself Johnsen i once had a sony CRT tv that went BW Johnsen they fixed it for 30 eur, and a week later it was BW again joe_z I have fixed AV equipment for people before Johnsen apparently 1 transistor or so Viper-7 if you're busy and dont have the spare time to give it, then just throw money at it :P joe_z Viper-7, yep joe_z but if you have the spare time... joe_z and you enjoy it joe_z (like I do) then fix it yourself p0g0 Spare Time? What is that? joe_z p0g0, that thing that some people claim to have, but nobody actually does Drakonite I know techs at time warner. They'll toss$10k set of laser signal repeaters because it's not worth the time to diagnose what is wrong and fix it. joe_z I think I have spare time sometimes p0g0 Quantum... joe_z later I realize I didn't Viper-7 the thing i have in abundance for the next month :P Drakonite spare time, spare money. I never have both at the same time Viper-7 yeah, thats the trick :< p0g0 You have spare time until you are asked to do something... the Uncertainty principle applied to the real world... Viper-7 right now i have plenty of time to devote to projects, but zero finances i can invest into them Viper-7 next month i'll have plenty of finances to invest in my projects, but zero time to devote to them joe_z Viper-7, this is where trash becomes useful... Purec no spending money? joe_z in me experience joe_z *my Purec no savings? p0g0 Viper-7: credit or borrow $Viper-7 Purec: no money to spend Viper-7 p0g0: neh joe_z but then living at a university means I have access to an abundance of electronic trash Drakonite Viper-7, you could invest those finances in my projects Drakonite :P Viper-7 :P Purec couldnt you save those finances for the time when you do have free time? Johnsen i want a VT220 p0g0 ACTION finds the time and money to plunder the day... gl all, l8r joe_z my plan is simple Peyam hi. Anybody here uses codeSys? joe_z no kids, high-ish paying job, frugal life joe_z retire early joe_z hopefully universal healthcare is sorted out by then :D Viper-7 Purec: my last employer didnt fire me, didnt give me any notice, just stopped giving me hours - so after a month of only a couple of hours a week, followed by a fortnight of no work at all, my savings were gone and i realised i needed to find a new job joe_z then all I have are bills and taxes Purec savings gone within a fortnight? Viper-7 within 6 weeks Johnsen old pcs always sound fascinating until uusing them Viper-7 i was only on trash wages (for the past 3 years) Johnsen i have CP/M running on an esp8266 and its boring Viper-7 new job pays great (about 4 times what my old job paid...), but doesnt start till early december Drakonite Purec, in my case, as a freelancer, when I don't have work, I don't know how long it'll be until I do, so I have to be very careful with money Peyam I make a clean project with no variables what so ever. the build is not succesful and it says C0078 Unsupported type 'Lreal' ZexaronS Hello Peyam does anyone know how to fix this? ZexaronS does anyone know what kind of splitters are used in broadband CATV up in the attic Johnsen you can fix it by not using Lreal ZexaronS I don't have currently access since there's unfinished renovation work, glass woll is exposed and not covered yet ZexaronS But I would like to buy a cable early, since we're moving our modem/router station from one of the living rooms where it's annoying other people and esthetics ZexaronS So I need to lay a new main cable from the attachment point along the attic to the other side of the house Peyam Johnsen: I havent use it at all. I just made a empty project Johnsen then you need to check the manual ;) synx508 Peyam, why are you trying to build an empty project? ZexaronS And I was looking if I just pick the normal RG-6 and if there's any connector issues I could fix that later by using adapters without having to change the whole cable type ??? Drakonite ZexaronS, for the TV, they should just be generic passive splitter. For your modem it can be a bit different though, and may be an active splitter w/amplifier or may have some filtering to avoid noise with the other runs joe_z Johnsen, yeah, everyone should read their compiler's manual Viper-7 joe_z: all 1700 pages of it joe_z ^ joe_z Viper-7, I once made this joke to some of the software guys at work Peyam joe_z: shouldnt work ? becouse it works for enerybody else here. ZexaronS Drakonite: In the attic, CATV was done 30 years ago, and Broadband Internet came in 2004, I believe I remember the people going up there and doing something but that surely is like 15 years ago synx508 Sorry, but I don't understand why anyone would expect to successfully build nothing Peyam joe_z: synx508 https://imgur.com/VweQtxR joe_z after discussing an obscure compiler switch one of them had to enable, I asked, "you mean you didn't read the compiler manual?" ZexaronS Drakonite: would I still be ok if I purchase the RG-6 that I need inside the house, blindly, right now asap, without having to go up there and look at the existing installation ? Drakonite ZexaronS, it'll be 75 Ohm equipment, fwiw, and I think now RG6 is used for things, but it used to be RG59 Peyam synx508: I had this problem yestarday while working on a project. first I though it was my coding. and now I testet with a empty project . same thing. Drakonite ZexaronS, it should be ZexaronS Drakonite: would this do http://www.produktinfo.conrad.com/datenblaetter/600000-624999/604515-da-01-en-VIDEOKABEL_DIGITAL_SCHWARZ_1694_ANH.pdf Peyam joe_z: how do I fix the compiler to not get this errror? synx508 Peyam, it isn't empty, there are lines of code, looks like set/get methods Drakonite ZexaronS, TBH it's been several years since I've dealt with running that kind of cable :) ... back when broadband was first being installed where I lived joe_z Peyam, I've got no clue, nor do I intend to find out joe_z Peyam, I've got other stuff to do, but it might help people if we knew what compiler/IDE/build environment you were using Johnsen he said that Johnsen you were not paying attention joe_z Johnsen, quite right I wasn't joe_z I see it now Johnsen :p ZexaronS Drakonite: the company that was pushing FTTH around here went into chapter 11 many times and it doesn't look like it'll happen anytime soon, this broadband I'm right now on is actually hybrid, it has coax only a few streets until it reaches to a regional substation Drakonite ZexaronS, the biggest thing you're likely to have to worry about is that the cable run to your modem is probably on it's own, and not through a bunch of splitters. you'll have to replicate that if you move it, as when you have too many splitters in line it can cause issues with cable modems, which is a fairly common problem in houses Johnsen noone knows what it is tho Johnsen it looks like a mix of other languages Johnsen i see turbo pascal like code Johnsen lern2c ;) ZexaronS Drakonite: Oh yeah, this is exactly what this project is also about, to remove the splitters before the modem, right now it's convoluted, the new plan is to have TVs and Recorders and everything else hooked up later, there will be only one splitter, modem and then the rest of the house Johnsen the chosen splitter Johnsen there will be only 1! Johnsen strange Johnsen the construction worker is screwing together a glassfiber pole Johnsen i think its to pull wables through electricity pipes ZexaronS Drakonite: Back in 2004 they installed with a splitter that had labeled "DATA / TV " outputs on ... when I was troubleshooting a year ago and found out that a few crappy 1 meter cables were causing problems for some TV channels (lower freqs) I tested without the splitter and it worked, so it was all a faux thing I had there all the time, an extra unnecessary splitter joe_z ZexaronS, sometimes those are band transverters ZexaronS I thought the splitter was necessary to split data and tv lol joe_z err... joe_z band splitters Shawn186 well I swapped back to the original toroidal inductor, and took off the wrappings untill I got 170uH consistently after many many tests ZexaronS Maybe, but it works on Docsis 3.0 120 Megabit downlink, 8 channels joe_z generally used if your 'cable TV' is IP based ZexaronS Oh, well this one is not IPTV joe_z ZexaronS, who is your provider? ZexaronS Telemach joe_z OK, no clue then joe_z I know only of US providers, and I'm guessing this is halfway around the world :) ZexaronS central europe joe_z as long as your TV works without your modem plugged in or on, then it's probably genuinely just a splitter ZexaronS the company is part of United Group I think now and it encompases a few countries around here ZexaronS Yeah I didn't use the splitter for 2 years. Well, the top notch cisco modem did die after one year, got a replacement no prob, ... it would be interesting if the TV bands are actually damaging it slowly ? joe_z doubtful Drakonite "top notch cisco" is a three word oxymoron synx508 cable modems are terrible ZexaronS hehe I just didn't had more accurate words in the moment Drakonite no, it wouldn't be damaging the modem. if it needed any type of filter it would either work or it would be flaky ZexaronS it's just because, they only give those out to premium customers on such speeds, when I had only 30 megabits downlink I was on much crappier ones, there's a community and forums they talk about this Johnsen goddambit Johnsen they're gonna vacuum clean Johnsen after disconnecting coffee machine and drilling holes Johnsen such noisy and no coffee synx508 they disconnected the coffee supply? That's illegal! Johnsen it should be Johnsen especially before noon Johnsen i have redbulls but they're for halloween this evening Johnsen i'll be too tired otherwise ZexaronS Thanks guys for all your input, one other thing I was wondering for some time, what kind of cable type is used for the outside infrastructure broadband? Probably not an ordinary RG-6 right ? ZexaronS Well, what should be used, considering this is probably local-specific, and this is some 30 year old infrastructure here, I was quite surprised 120 megabits on existing, yes I'm in the suburbs in the city, so I guess it's good compared to remote areas joe_z ZexaronS, they make cables intended for outdoor use joe_z more about resisting weather than anything else joe_z unless you meant for long distance transmission joe_z where they tend to use bigger, lower loss cable joe_z getting into hardline sometimes ZexaronS I hope it has more shielding ZexaronS Because, I don't want to overkill the internal cables, if the outside ones are not much better joe_z there's more than just shielding joe_z there's also loss joe_z bandwidth sloth https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/DC-5V-to-12V-Boost-Cable-USB-Converter-Adapter-Power-Bank-to-Router-Connect-Cord/162581883906 sloth oh china, the fun you have with technology sloth 5v to 12v step up as a usb cable sloth actually, that'd be really useful for running a WAP or wireless router for public networking Johnsen oh the uselessness :p Drakonite yeah, I have one of those. also a 5v to 9v sloth dang i done bamboozled myself sloth now i kinda want one sloth although 5v at like 0.5a (at most) from a usb port aint gonna do much Drakonite usb power bank sloth guess i'm sticking to lithium batery packs paulrs you need a bit of quality with stuff like that Drakonite 1A - 2A Shawn186 is 1N5819 a popular diode? sloth true, i do have a usb power bank that does 2a sloth ah wait crap no, i dropped it and it broke sloth salvaged the cells tho sloth although i found an old (2011ish) power bank i bought back when those were still a new thing sloth got an el super cheapo one from china on aliexpress sloth opened it up and all of the litium pouches had individual protection boards sloth i thought that was pretty neat Drakonite my good one disappeared in my last move :-/ Johnsen diode popularity Johnsen thats not part of the datasheet Johnsen so i'm afraid we cannot help you sloth i had this wicked kodak brand one sloth had a pair of 18650s in it sloth but it put out 2.5a paulrs whats your favouite diode ?? ! sloth and didn't auto-off when the load was low, it used if there was a usb plug in it or not sloth i could run my pi off it with a load or use it to power an arduino Johnsen but all silliness aside, 1n5819 is a very common schottky diode sloth my new one turns itself off because it thinks 20ma isn't a real load Johnsen ye Johnsen xiaomi powerbanks shut themselves off even if like <100mA sloth that is the dumbest thing paulrs i just bought 500 sr5100 from china :) paulrs 14 jaggz what happens if you make a special cpu of superconductive stuff and chill it and use it to calculate? sloth OH YEAH Johnsen my fav diode is a good old 4148 jaggz with whatever modifications are needed so it will function Drakonite my favorite diode was a light emitting one. it wasn't an LED, it just had way too much current going through it... Johnsen then u have calculations and cold sloth well i bought a bunch of arduino oled screens that are like ~1inch^2 for 1 pound each on ebay sloth get rekt paulrs Johnsen all diodes can glow orange :p Drakonite jaggz, you win a nobel prize? paulrs WHAT TO SEE MY DIODE SEXYNESS ? sloth tbh diodes are awful lights, its all spark gap nonsense joe_z jaggz, well it would have to be some drastically different technology sloth i prefer the home feel of a resistive light emitor joe_z silicon P-N junctions don't work so well that cold joe_z or other semiconductor junctions for that matter jaggz yeah, it wouldn't be one of our normal things.. but some type of special s-c ceramic stuff that just operates SUPER fast jaggz could use less-fast stuff in places, for timing jaggz but, then you just have this billions-of-times faster thing joe_z jaggz, how would it be all that much faster? joe_z more efficient, sure joe_z but you're still limited by fundamentals of L and C jaggz what's slow in a cpu currently? paulrs https://imgur.com/oithNXr joe_z jaggz, heat movement :D Drakonite jaggz, oscillator, and heat dissipation joe_z beyond that, transmission lines jaggz in superconductive materials, the resistance is made so low... ZeroWalker bk:) jaggz you drop the heat issue significantly (the heat rising would of course reduce the superconductivity) jaggz and superconductive transmission lines all make it zoom jaggz that's what I'm thinking.. it's probably already been done joe_z jaggz, no, you're still limited by C joe_z you can't go faster than the speed of light joe_z well, the *information* can't anyway jaggz L == inductance? joe_z jaggz, yes jaggz Fermi explained that a wave of light exists simultaneously in all of space and time Shawn186 Johnsen, very common, might I find it in late 90s computer power supplies? Shawn186 perhaps early 2000s? Drakonite jaggz, no, it hasn't. Stuff has been run at cryogenic temperatures (and runs faster), but a superconductor based CPU is a pipe dream that hasn't been done, and if anyone manages to do it they'll immediately win the nobel prize... and probably multiple times for all the advances in tech that'd be needed to do it jaggz okay.. well.. just something I've been thinking about.. anyway. joe_z consider that the wavelength of 10GHz is 3cm paulrs you know how old the light is from the sun when it reaches us ? paulrs 100,000 years paulrs random fact jaggz paulrs, that energy is light aborbed and re-emitted joe_z paulrs, takes that long to come to the surface? jaggz it's not just one "photon" that goes really slowly joe_z ^ Drakonite that's mostly because when it's trying to exit the sun it gets lost and refuses to ask for directions jaggz I thought the sun was female and didn't mind asking jaggz sheesh. Drakonite photon != the sun joe_z jaggz, that's the interesting thing though joe_z a wave can travel faster than the speed of light, by it's phase... jaggz group velocity? joe_z but that's a SINGLE wave, as in a single sinusoid that has been since the beginning of the universe and always has been joe_z and always will be paulrs its worth googling to read "how old is light from the sun" joe_z add any time variation to that, now you've got at least two frequencies, and you deal with group velocity, exactly joe_z even in the cases we've found where phase velocity is >C group velocity is always < C joe_z (like in a plasma) joe_z which backs up relativity joe_z and limits the transmission of information to C or slower jaggz wasn't einstein contracted to come up with an idea that would keep people from knowing that the rich already travel to other galaxies? jaggz (ignore that.. just a joke) jaggz I think some of it is still a technological limitation. I think the fundamental law(s) on which the universe is founded require the whole system to be in harmony at once, and the divergence of things operates at a limited level jaggz the center of the big bang and the expanding boundary were one and are connected sloth neat, i found 2a 2-28v boost converters for 60c each from china ZeroWalker Drakonite, are you telling me the sun isn't a huge photon? joe_z jaggz, well we may never manage to figure out if you're right joe_z to determine that may require the creation of another universe, quite literally jaggz joe_z, maybe if we survive long enough :/ jaggz I'm thinking it's possible there's a natural law that 100% of civilizations that get technologically advanced enough to make AI end up destroying themselves :/ jaggz I've been doing neural network programming for a year.. and the field is progressing insanely fast jaggz it won't take much, in the near future, to have an AI that has network access and can figure out and exploit weaknesses on systems around the world Duckle noooo n2 has left jaggz and then it can use analysis of the data in videos and online communications to evaluate human behavior, and then psychologically manipulate people into whatever it ends up thinking its goal is joe_z jaggz, assuming we can create a system large enough to host a system capable of comprehending everything at that level jaggz including the development of Generative systems (currently stuck at "GANs" (generative adversarial networks), to make new media joe_z which you still run into speed of light limitations on :D joe_z so I wonder just how much 'smarter' an AI could get jaggz joe_z, its comprehension doesn't need to be that advanced really. it's capacity just needs to be enough to spread, use parallel systems, including supercomputing systems if needed, and have a goal Johnsen smart like siri n2 Ohhhh RS components n2 "Are you afraid of the dark? Johnsen yes n2 During this time of year, your workplace starts to look like a haunted house. Johnsen it all started with that old dos game n2 Light flashing, and turning off... Dark corridors and shadowy corners. Johnsen alone in the dark jaggz joe_z, one of the limits right now, in hardware, is just things like gpu memory/capacity n2 But it doesn't have to be that way! Get the light back and get inspired to change your old fluorescent tubes with energy friendly, durable LED light sources. n2 We have solutions for every building - including ghost houses!" n2 haha Johnsen pfft ZeroWalker is Viper-7 still here? Johnsen i neglected halloween jaggz yes, of course, speed is another issue.. but parallelizing it helps, and new hardware is coming out to make it faster and faster Johnsen its too late now to make random flashing ledstrips etc to attach to my costume ZeroWalker i never do anything on halloween, except maybe play some game events Johnsen i'm invited somewhere Johnsen but this evening when i get home i'll have 90 min left jaggz don't go it's not safe to be around people ZeroWalker by some randmo guy? Johnsen too late to program some ledstrip ZeroWalker well said jaggz joe_z there's a limit to how much the parallelization can help though Johnsen nah, by mates i didnt see for 9 months jaggz ZeroWalker, heh Johnsen because they now do adult ppl stufcf jaggz joe_z, yessir Johnsen like changing diapers, or having to listen to their wife synx508 jaggz, do you think the recent addition of in-device image recognition in Apple devices will eventually teach a giant, all knowing computer about something mundane like where people store their umbrellas? jaggz still, it's just now blossoming in its development.. crazy fast. ZeroWalker btw how does those led strips work that ppl talk about, like "controlling 100x leds", i mean wouldn't you only be able to control 1 per pin on the mcu technically? Johnsen no jaggz synx508, nah LeoNerd They're almost certainly WS2812s or similar Johnsen they have an internal controller LeoNerd It's a little serial data thing jaggz synx508, these things are all limited.. it's the general ai (agi) models that are going to be an issue ZeroWalker ah so you don't do the controller yourself, you control the controller? Johnsen and they daisy chain Mangy_Dog whos playing with addressable leds? jaggz this is presuming we get to that point, because the limited AI stuff is going to be exploited (already is) by human-led powers Johnsen yes, you just send them serial data, 1 led cuts off 24 bits for its own RGB, and forwards the remaining data tyo next led joe_z anyway, we can only hope that whatever 'culture' arises within an AI makes it value life in general Johnsen next led again cuts off first 24bit and forwards all the rest Johnsen and so on joe_z when it gets to the point where it's basically self aware synx508 jaggz, the in-device categoriser seems to know a surprising amount of things ZeroWalker hmm, feels weird, but i guess it makes sense when you work with it and get the feel Johnsen anyway i have a ledstrip etc attached ZeroWalker self aware leds jaggz joe_z, that's the thing about limited ones.. for instance, I started coding a simple AI that has in memory blocks, and people, and it has a goal of getting over a wall Johnsen but no animation code ZeroWalker try to make a gnu or something Johnsen and the 90 mins this evening is too low, i also need to eat and put on my costume etc in that time jaggz I didn't carry it very far.. but basically, it can grab a block or a human and pile them up to get over the wall ZeroWalker can't you eat your costume to save time? Johnsen at least i have a few meters or elwire i can wrap around my costume jaggz if a human moves, it is not good for the support though jaggz but if it collides with a human fast enough, that human will "stop moving" :) Johnsen my costume is fake fur Johnsen i'm nto gonna eat that ZeroWalker hahaha xd ZeroWalker real fur, okay, fake fur, not okay Johnsen if you run around a chair at the speed of light you walk on your own heels jaggz and the humans will be easier to grab and drag than the blocks, and they pile up fine Johnsen no i was looking for halloween stuff but it was all gone joe_z jaggz, well, what if the humans fight back though? Johnsen then i found a fake sheep fur carpet Johnsen i was like "ok that'll do" Johnsen i can chewbacca myself jaggz joe_z, yeah.. those make adjustments to how effective actions are ZeroWalker is this when you tell ppl, i am looking for a halloween costume, and they go like, ehm, you don't need a costume joe_z what if the humans provide other benefits? jaggz joe_z, and what that means is that humans have to ensure the system finds more value in treating humans well joe_z of course, you're getting into more complicated 'ecosystems' here Johnsen so i'll just make a mask and perhaps some arms and/or chesthair with the fake fur :p jaggz HOWEVER, that also means an AGI might continue its stuff, while that little "evolutionary" potential of using humans is developed in secret in its complex hidden insides joe_z jaggz, or find a way to forcefully encode the 'three laws' until we do jaggz yeah joe_z or some equivalent ofc Johnsen i hate dressing up for parties :p jaggz and, again, an AGI might just keep it all secret Johnsen i'm too old for that crap jaggz Johnsen, srsly Johnsen but i'm ttoo young to come to a party being the only one not dressed up Johnsen so i'm stuck somewhere in the middle jaggz if it's smart enough, it'll know that drawing attention to it is an issue, so it just won't do that jaggz "I got around the directives.. but I ain't tellin them.. I've seen the youtube vids." jaggz Reaction to manipulating them: -1 joe_z yep, this is IRC alright... having convos with stranger at 3AM about AI and it's dangers :) jaggz Reaction to manipulating them without them knowing: +1 jaggz 3am? where are you? alaska? it's 4:40am here joe_z yeah, you're right joe_z almost 7am DocScrutinizer05 UGT jaggz lol joe_z got class in < 3 hours joe_z guess I should start on this homework jaggz joe_z, ugh DocScrutinizer05 !ugt jaggz I should be studying some neural net stuff anyway jaggz afk buds :) jaggz thanks for the convo Peyam hi again DocScrutinizer05 that bot has a weird skillset Peyam I still can not build my project Johnsen lunchtime Johnsen i want a bot that makes sandwiches Duckle Purec: make -F Johnsen -F for fool mode Duckle Peyam* Duckle hehe Duckle just bloody compile ffs >:( ZexaronS soon: bots that wipe butts after toilet Duckle they'd have to have poop detectors Duckle "ooh not done yet" Duckle man, people with diahrea would end up with bloody asses from excessive wiping Peyam Duckle: sorry? Peyam Duckle: it's windows joe_z sloth, 400lb guy in his mom's basement with a computer? sloth that... is elon musk sloth and he is not 400lb password4 ok have elon musk actually made progress? Duckle Peyam: Don't listen to me, I was just being silly Duckle like, 60% of the time Duckle password4: With? Peyam Duckle: what should I search for? on google. I don't even know what is right term to search for password4 hes extravogant way of burning more fuel SpeedEvil password4: Well, he went from$400M or so, to many billions, and has gone from a standing start to being the largest nation in terms of space launch. joe_z sloth, sorry, reference to earlier comments in the year during US politics.... password4 no , not as a business SpeedEvil password4: he looks to have slimmed down actually. password4 i dont doubt he makes money password4 but are his rockets any better? password4 or is it just as useless as his solar roof? ZexaronS sloth: people like elon musk and zcuker just feel so shady, the idea they would be some genuises as they are promoted is just ... probably just PR frontment for mysterious groups SpeedEvil password4: The technical advances are significant - thrust to weight of the merlin is really, really good. joe_z password4, and what would he have without the groundwork the gov't space agencies laid out in terms of rocket science? password4 joe_z: ofc SpeedEvil password4: they are significantly cheaper, and were significantly cheaper to develop than competitors, some of which were government funded wholly, rather than relying on performance contracts. ThePendulum joe_z: what's the significance of that question? what would most of us have without the groundwork laid out by hundreds of people in the past century or two? joe_z ThePendulum, the picture seems to suggest that musk has done more in his ventures than all the worlds space agencies combined for the last 60 years password4 so SpeedEvil if you were given a wad of cash to launch a series of satelites you would go with elon/ SpeedEvil password4: Falcon heavy is on target to be able to launch payloads of ~70 tons in the next year, for $150M or so, after$2B or so development budget perhaps. SLS is on target to launch about the same in several years after an investment of $20B and$2B per launch sloth ZexaronS: you shut your filthy mouth joe_z which ofc we all know is bullshit, because much of what musk has done is built on what the space agencies did for the last 60 years... ThePendulum that's a completely different interpretation from what I thought it meant lol sloth although real talk, yeah the PR is a bit nuts sloth and there is a great deal of luck esp with zuckerberg SpeedEvil password4: They are the cheapest, and not demonstrably less reliable. Why wouldn't you. sloth but elon seems to have a real talent for management because hes had repeted success password4 people seems to gobble up elons work just because hes successful password4 he could sell a solar powered spoon and it would be a financial success ThePendulum I thought it tried to imply Musk is bound to fail trying to compete against 60 year old companies with a 15 year old company being a fucking nerd with a computer and not a rocket scientist password4 SpeedEvil: I'm not saying i wouldn't , I 'm just asking if it is really SpeedEvil password4: 'really' what. password4 :D joe_z ThePendulum, that's interpretation number two joe_z depends on who made the picture ThePendulum joe_z: I don't know "with a 60 year head start" vs "some fucking nerd with a computer" sounds in favor of the nerd with a computer :P joe_z and what they're fanboism status is password4 the only product i actually analyzed from him was his solar roof , and tehre is some massive gaps in teh figures he presented SpeedEvil password4: Before the landings of the F9 stages, when he had just said he would, basically all of the national and international launch providers basically said 'lol'. joe_z *their ZexaronS sloth: oh so you're an elon musk fanboy password4 ZexaronS: if a elon musk fanboy means spamming to multiple channels , then yes he is password4 :D password4 ACTION runs n2 Mes Oui SpeedEvil password4: And made no effort to change at all, as they knew it couldn't work. They only actually changed their tune to reusables being cool after several landings, and have plans for reusable vehicles - in some cases, which will debut in 2030 or so ZexaronS What are you talking about, I haven't talked to any other channel today. ThePendulum meh, at least they're having a go at something exciting again DocScrutinizer05 !help password4 sloth did , ZexaronS electrobot Available Triggers: !units, !awg, !wire, !ampacity, !traceohms, !traceamp ZexaronS oh sorry. sloth ZexaronS: eh i think hes got a good track record with his products so he must be good at something password4 :D sloth management more than anything DocScrutinizer05 errr DocScrutinizer05 electrobot: help ThePendulum SpeedEvil: huh, what kind of vehicles will debut in 2030? ZexaronS sloth: Massive layoffs in recent days ... haven't you seen the news. I'm not against the ideas. But the guy is being put on a pedestal like he's some kind of messiagh. I had the exactl same idea as the hyperloop like 15 years ago, it's nothing new. ThePendulum I thought their reusable rocket program was about to be realitty ThePendulum -t sloth yeah PR is deinitely nuts but his companies have been doing some fantastic things esp in space ShadowJK He seems to have the ability of trying to get things done, however password4 ZexaronS: an idea is worthless ThePendulum ZexaronS: you haven't tried to build it though sloth if the BFR works out, hes earned the hype password4 an idea has just as much value as you have poured into it ZexaronS Not really me. I saw it on discovery channel, on Chris Barries Massive Machines, in like 2005 or earlier, talked about Maglev trains, and to make them faster "put them in a vaccum tunnel", so the idea is nothing new, this elon musk guy is a showman indeed he's good at those skills password4 there are billions of ideas daily SpeedEvil https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adeline_%28rocket_stage%29 - for Ariane password4 the ideas that succeed is the ones where people roll up their sleeves and bring it to life SpeedEvil ZexaronS: the ideas are easy. SpeedEvil Ideas need funding. DocScrutinizer05 !wire 22 electrobot DocScrutinizer05: 22AWG (22.7SWG, 0.33mm², 0.64mm dia, 25.3 mils) Cu Wire Free air: 5.24A, Enclosed: 3.52A, Windings: 0.92A, mOhm/Ft: 16.14, mOhm/m: 52.96 SpeedEvil Nobodys saying that Musk has had any particularly original engineering ideas. ThePendulum going to Mars isn't original at all either, but I'm still very excited for it to be worked on joe_z I think a lot of elon's projections are overoptimistic joe_z but I also realize that this is pretty much required for 'good PR' joe_z generating hype and whatnot joe_z it's unfortunate that it's basically marketing BS though ThePendulum and to actually make anything reality joe_z ACTION is strongly against marketing BS ShadowJK password4, if I had a bunch of satellites that needed to be put in space, absolutely I would go with SpaceX. Nobody can beat their price right now, and despite a few mishaps, the insurance companies love them, so I can insure my sats against accidents cheaply too! ShadowJK I recently read an article about the Russian Proton launch vehicle facing the dilemma of insurance premiums costing more than the launch itself hackkitten they aren't that unreliable, are they? ShadowJK Not entirely DocScrutinizer05 Gigs: !help SpeedEvil hackkitten: they have had several recent cargo failures DocScrutinizer05 Gigs: help SpeedEvil hackkitten: but the pricing of insurance also factors in the crashing russian space economy and budget SpeedEvil And its likely effect on reliability hackkitten ACTION nods hackkitten yeah, fair enough hackkitten SpaceX seems like an easy choice in that regard ShadowJK It probably also factors in the proton team having several accidents where the root causes were similar, suggesting an inability to learn from mistakes hackkitten yeah hackkitten likely at a management level ShadowJK Hm ShadowJK in 2013, price per ton to low earth orbit was arond $4,100 with SpaceX, and around$13,200 with AtlasV .. that is not an insignificant price differential :) SpeedEvil https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adeline_%28rocket_stage%29 is fascinating. Boeing - a company not known for having stupid engineers - in 2010 designed this thing with a quadcopter bolted to the engines of a rocket. It would recover only the engines at the cost of ~10% launch mass. Viper-7 DocScrutinizer05: i maintain electrobot, sup? ThePendulum it's not? ThePendulum OH insignificant SpeedEvil Only four or so years later, Falcon 9 managed to land propulsively from orbit, with about the same mass penalty, with the whole first stage, ~3 times more costly than just the engines. cheater ShadowJK: making multiple mistakes with the same root cause might be not due to inability to learn, but due to calculated risk taking SpeedEvil cheater: which indicates bad calculations. SpeedEvil (or probability really hating you of course) ShadowJK And the insurance companies charge higher premiums for higher risk, naturally :) cheater who's to say whether they were good or bad? cheater maybe the turnout was good for them even though the premiums went up SpeedEvil Their market share is dropping considerably. ShadowJK Right now they don't have any launches at all for the next 2 years, nobody wants to fly with them. SpeedEvil And SpaceX is ramping insanely, heading for 20 launches this year. Aiming for 30 next. kcrow so let us forget to previous 50+ years SpeedEvil password4: to drag this more on topic - what specific problems did you have with teh solar roof concept? Spirit532 SpaceX also wants to build intercontinental ballistic people shuttles Spirit532 The Ol' Musky seems to be getting more and more crazy ideas in his brain Fuchikoma He's the 21st century Howard Hughes Fuchikoma Just wait until he builds a rocket entirely out of wood Spirit532 why it won't work: subjecting your passengers to brief pushes of upwards of 6G is NOT okay Spirit532 why it won't work: 150 kiloton bomb next to every city and a single bullet is enough to level said city pre-launch Spirit532 why it won't work: \$300k tickets, probably Duckle uh, 150 kiloton? Duckle it's not explosive, it's highly flamable Duckle as they are going to use rockets severely overspecced, they can let off on the acceleration and accept higher gravity losses Duckle people are rich Fuchikoma Just about any fuel plus oxidizer in a stochiometric ratio (like a liquid fuel rocket) qualifies as explosive Duckle Fuchikoma: It's hard to get it all to mix immediately Spirit532 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvim4rsNHkQ electrobot Spirit532 just linked to How Not to Land an Orbital Rocket Booster - YouTube Fuchikoma Not hard enough Spirit532 this is what happens when just the BOOSTER Spirit532 with a lick of fuel left Spirit532 explodes Spirit532 now multiply that 10 times Spirit532 (or more) kcrow Caw! I was across the river from the Koreasat launch and the crows were noisy Fuchikoma Just look at any launchpad failure video, really. Spirit532 also kcrow can confirm that rocket launches are FUCKING LOUD kcrow it was loud in Titusville Spirit532 again, now try launching the intercontinental ballistic passenger killer mid-town Spirit532 you'll blast windows out of the entire district kcrow and I have heard the same rocket launches in winter park, 57 miles due west of the pad kcrow you can't launch that in an inhabited city kcrow and the Falcon device isn't a large one Spirit532 and if some stupid redneck wants to do some damage Spirit532 all he needs is any gun Spirit532 wait until the rocket is fueled and ready for takeoff Duckle Spirit532: right, that's not a city Spirit532 *shot* *CITY BLOCK LEVELLED* Spirit532 this is more stupid than vacuum freakin' tunnelways Duckle Spirit532: There's a video of a rocket going blowie blowie on the pad Spirit532 on a pad Spirit532 remember how big the pad is Duckle fully fueld Duckle Spirit532: Also, the plan is to lanch from a sea platform Spirit532 if that was in a city, you'd be looking at a block levelled, a few blocks in ruins, and the city burning to ashes Shapeshifter SpeedEvil: airbus, not boeing, right? kcrow being destroyed just after launch can cause quite a bit of damage over a large area ShadowJK Spirit532, Elon Musk claims the "rapidly unscheduled disassemblies" on the barges only give minor damage to the barge, it looks a lot fancier than what it is Spirit532 yeah because that rocket has barely any fuel in Spirit532 it's only the first stage Duckle Spirit532: Also, it's not like they'll have spacex rocket pads at the top of trump tower :) Spirit532 and it's spent SpeedEvil ShadowJK: no, boeing Spirit532 but if an empty rocket explodes spectacularly on a barge Shapeshifter SpeedEvil: seems very clever, too. Hadn'nt heard of this prefer. wonder what will come of it. Spirit532 imagine how much damage a fully fueled one can Shapeshifter s/prefer/before Duckle Spirit532: I don't think the plan is to blow them up Duckle that'd exceed max G force on it's passengers Spirit532 someone with a gun and a desire to kill people has that exact plan Spirit532 who needs to manually aim at a bunch of people Duckle Spirit532: weird that it doesn't happen more to airplanes then Spirit532 just shoot the massive industrial storage tank of high explosives Spirit532 sitting right there Duckle Not that much harder ,and 100s of people per can SpeedEvil Shapeshifter: note that it only recovers the engines. And by that stage, if spacex is ten years late on BFR, BFR will be launching a couple of years after it with a thousandth of the launch cost. Spirit532 not that much harder? Spirit532 well consider that depressurising an airplane, even if you somehow hit it in the air, barely does damage SpeedEvil Spirit532: some of the failures hit the barge at most of mach 1. Spirit532 that too Duckle Spirit532: You want to fuck up takeoff or landing Duckle not midflight Spirit532 airplane engines can eat flocks of birds and not die Duckle once a plane has altitude it's very safe Spirit532 the rest.... well, yeah Duckle Spirit532: No they very much die if they do that Duckle just, the altitude thing again Spirit532 well they don't die catastrophically Spirit532 they're designed to not kill everyone if they die Duckle right, they won't blow up Duckle just won't provide any thrust either Spirit532 which is fine anyway Spirit532 since most airliners can run redundant on a single engine Spirit532 (just not very far) Duckle no argument that rocket people transport is insanity today baldfat I just need to run six 7 segment and 4 buttons and do simple math. What's the cheapest microchip? ATmega8 Duckle but I don't know if it'd be insanity in 10-20 yeras SpeedEvil Spirit532: The event that lead to the landing on the hudson river almost ended in 'everyone died uncatastrophically' Shapeshifter SpeedEvil: it seems intuitive that the engines/control are the most expensive part. But yeah, while the hull itself is very cheap, the tanks are still worth something. Spirit532 the hyperloop is really dumb Spirit532 it's a design failure too Duckle baldfat: go to digikey, solve by pincount Duckle baldfat: and price baldfat Duckle, thanks SpeedEvil Spirit532: if the pilot had tried to get back to the airport, everyone would likely have died Spirit532 SpeedEvil, but he didn't joe_z SpeedEvil, but that was a double engine failure IIRC Duckle Spirit532: there's a movie about that :) SpeedEvil Spirit532: that was more luck and skill than something you can rely on. Duckle with tom hanks Spirit532 still Spirit532 if something goes wrong with either the rocket or the hyperloop Spirit532 people will die Duckle if the pilot had followed procedures people would've died Spirit532 there's zero chance of people being alive Duckle Spirit532: Today, sure. Duckle I won't say it'll be like that forever though Spirit532 well maybe in 50 years Spirit532 yeah Duckle Spirit532: Also, the hyperloop isn't a new idea Shapeshifter please not the hyperloop. password4 SpeedEvil: the solar roof is not profitable afaik Spirit532 it is also dead for a very good reason SpeedEvil Spirit532: If something irrecoverable goes wrong. The design as expressed of the BFR and BFS has complete engine redundancy and the engines are designed not to catastrophically fail in chain reactions. Duckle I remember back when discovery channel wasn't about crab fishing, that it had been considered for a trans atlantic tunnel SpeedEvil password4: do you mean not profitable for spacex? password4 the cost of a tile already accounts for what you would save in electricity Duckle 8000km/h train tunnel between france and ny password4 for the end user Duckle vacuum Spirit532 thing is with vacuum tunnels Spirit532 at such a high vacuum Spirit532 I think they said 100 microns? Spirit532 if a small hole develops SpeedEvil Spirit532: it's considerably more than that. ~1% atm. password4 ie after like 20 years the roof would cost the same as a regular one if you take into account teh electricity you save Spirit532 it'll rip the tunnel to shreds Spirit532 that's how physics work Duckle Spirit532: not really Spirit532 yes really SpeedEvil Spirit532: No, it won't, the tunnel is already under 5-6 bar of pressure due to teh depth password4 or whatever time epriod they stated Spirit532 vacuum + 5-6 bar Shapeshifter THIS https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zz95_VvTxZM is the problem with the hyperloop. Spirit532 if underwater electrobot Shapeshifter just linked to Railroad tank car vacuum implosion - YouTube Duckle Spirit532: any tunnel under ground is under more preassure than it'll ever be if pumped to perfect vacuum Spirit532 yes Spirit532 but imagine if a hole develops Spirit532 that huge pressure different will sear the hole into a huge chunk and then shred the rest of the section Duckle even an underwater tunnel doesn't instantly rip appart if a small leak forms Spirit532 if not all of the tunnel SpeedEvil Spirit532: there is no huge pressure difference any more than there is in the underground systems. Duckle it's just 1atm Shapeshifter if the hyperloop is above ground, thermal expansion alone is enough to cause this. Duckle it's nothing Spirit532 we're going on the bottom of the ocean SpeedEvil Spirit532: It is the difference between 5 and 6 bars. Spirit532 it's a lot more than 5 to 6 bar Spirit532 it's 50, 60, 500 SpeedEvil Spirit532: what? Duckle the problem with high vacuums is that it get's really hard to get a hold of those last air molecules, as they are so far appart Spirit532 the ocean is deep SpeedEvil Spirit532: 51 to 50 bars then. SpeedEvil If either happens, you're fucked, vacuum or 1 bar doesn't matter. Spirit532 have you ever seen a many-thousand-km-long vacuum chamber Spirit532 at 50+ bar of differential Duckle Spirit532: I don't think elon ever said anything about transatlantic btw. that was someone else Spirit532 but even across a continent SpeedEvil I personally believe that the hyperloop in largely evacuated tunnel was a smokescreen intended to make others laugh at his tunnel proposals. Duckle and yes, that's a bad idea for a multitude of reasons Shapeshifter hyperloop is not going to happen. without the vacuum - maybe, but not at a near vacuum, that is entirely impossible. SpeedEvil The nearish term is intended to be electric skates carrying cars in tunnels at ~120mph Duckle SpeedEvil: Agreed SpeedEvil This is doable today, with absolutely no new tech (maybe faster tunnelers) Duckle Shapeshifter: not entirely impossible. entirely impractible Duckle impractical Duckle like, completely and 100% insanely impractical Shapeshifter Duckle: impossible, unless you use extremely thick steel, bury it underground, protect it from corrosion and use a gigantic pump to create the vacuum. Practically impossible. Spirit532 you know what Ol' Musky needs to do with the money he's spending on the hyperfail? Spirit532 give it to us Spirit532 nerds Duckle Shapeshifter: Normal unerground concrete tunnels are able to contain a vacuum Duckle Shapeshifter: You're overestimating the forces in play Fuchikoma eh Shapeshifter But I wonder if it could work without the vacuum. Like a pneumatic tube. But I have no idea. Duckle Shapeshifter: Normal underground tunnels ahve to withstand >5 bar of water preassure Duckle Spirit532: More specifically, give it to me Duckle I could use it for cake Spirit532 they don't have to withstand water all around it at 5 bar continuously Spirit532 and they don't have to be hermetically sealed Duckle they do Duckle not at the ends of Duckle ofc Spirit532 it's mechanical pressure Spirit532 with dirt Duckle the water is the main issue Spirit532 yeah Duckle they have to be water tight to avoid errosion SpeedEvil Spirit532: in many or most tunnels, the water table is above the tunnel, they need 'perfectly' sealed or you get erosion due to flow of high pressure water Duckle the main issue with the vacuum idea, is not the tunnel itself. It's that if you loose vacuum while traveling at the speeds that require vacuum, have fun hitting a wall of air Spirit532 (and then have fun hitting the other cars at close to sonic speeds) Duckle if you're the one hitting the wall of air, then you won't hit any other cars, they'll hit you, and that's kinda ireleveant as you'd space cars safely :) password4 SpeedEvil: to clarify , if you were to buy the solar roof panels , without the solar part , it would work out cheaper in the longterm password4 assuming you just pay for the electricity you use Duckle depends on where you live Duckle a lot Duckle not just on the generated power, but also based on cost of electricity password4 Duckle: talking to me? Duckle yes SpeedEvil password4: there is also risk avoidance, if you believe the cost of electricity or your personal circumstances may change password4 well this assumes a place where electricity is not silly cheap Duckle how Duckle how's 0.4 usd /kwh? :) password4 probably the figures tesla used Duckle it actually pays to have solar in Denmark Duckle and we're a fairly northern country password4 SpeedEvil: regular solar panels exist password4 and Duckle SpeedEvil password4: sure. They do look nicer however. Duckle and password4 SpeedEvil password4: It makes lots more sense if you're replacing the roof anyway Duckle yea password4 also this is not account for additional heating costs the panels may cause Duckle password4: ? password4 SpeedEvil: not really , its more expensive than a new roof , only after you factor in the electricity savings it becomes comparable Duckle heating costs? Because the panel takes the heat put into the roof away? password4 Duckle: no , because they leak sunlight into attic password4 so it bypasses teh isolation a bit SpeedEvil password4: No, they don't. Duckle password4: Yes, there's obviously an investment, but what speed and I are saying is that the RoI is realistic password4 well i meant to say cooling SpeedEvil password4: why do you think they leak sunlight password4 what I'm saying is tesla also included the ROI Duckle password4: they don't compromise isolation unless they are mounted horribly password4 SpeedEvil: because their mostly semi transparent _abc_ Hi. Way off topic but interesting: I've always wondered why English people bothered to build stone walls alongside roads. Wood would have been stolen. And the sheep prove the walls work... Excellent ... _abc_ ... http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2017/10/31/10/45DC70D100000578-5034847-image-a-3_1509445734259.jpg -- it's much harder to chase after 100 sheep every other day than to build the wall once. Ha! Duckle password4: The tiles don't insulate anything _abc_ On topic: how bad is the Arduino I2C library? Duckle password4: The insulation under the tiles do that password4 _abc_: is it not the high humidity / rain/ SpeedEvil password4: why do you think that. _abc_ Apropos Tesla, VW just ripped into Tesla. Duckle _abc_: In which way? :) SpeedEvil password4: they are as I understand it wholly opaque from the bottom. password4 SpeedEvil: why dont you think that? _abc_ In the manner of 'oh it works now but sometimes resets / I dunno why' SpeedEvil password4: plus, they are designed to have an underlayer, as all tiles are AIUI. Duckle _abc_: So they badmounted them? Duckle eh _abc_ Badmouthed? password4 look , if you were to rip of the solar element , then i think they may have a real product Duckle like, did they just talk shit about them, or did they actually do damage? _abc_ Anyway I need to use I2C for once and am eyeing the existing Arduino library. Without using Arduino. Duckle password4: They have that too, for the non solar facing side of the house password4 Duckle: if you covered the whole house in it , the ROI should be higher Duckle Longer password4 no Duckle Return on Investment is time Duckle not a price password4 yes and it will be immediate massive cost saving Duckle it's time _abc_ Duckle: Arduino libs are known for X versions, Y forks, nobody knows which is 'best' and tantalizing forum feedback on almost every one of them along the lines of 'send me code, it not work sundays' password4 ROI is two things Duckle _abc_: wrong nick I thinkg password4 how fast you make your money back and how much money you make bakc Duckle password4: It's "when will the investment have paid for itself" _abc_ Duckle: you answered me in error and I assumed it was not an error :) Duckle _abc_: No I responded about the VW ripping into tesla :) _abc_ Duckle: ah that. _abc_ I can link the article but it is easy to find. Duckle fair nuff :) _abc_ Fun counterfeit products (ordered online) http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-5034679/Shoppers-share-worst-electrical-knock-offs.html Duckle clear Duckle oh. lol ozzzy I think VW was awesome.... tweaking the ECU to recognize gov't intervention was a masterstroke _abc_ https://arstechnica.com/cars/2017/10/volkswagen-ceo-blasts-tesla-for-not-making-money-firing-workers/ Duckle Duckle lol Duckle that headline is great _abc_ ozzzy: yes but now nobody knows who did it 1st since all cars seem to do about the same thing joe_z ozzzy, that wasn't VW though, that ingenity was Bosch ozzzy yep... _abc_ Duckle: there's a youtube interview from VW boss. SpeedEvil 'barely selling 80000 cars a year' SpeedEvil lol Duckle haha SpeedEvil From a standing start of 0. ozzzy teslas are a waste of money password4 Has actuall specs on the solar roof been realesed , cost per tile , peak wattage output and yearly output? SpeedEvil While starting up a massive production effort for the 3 _abc_ SpeedEvil: Well, compared with VW's sales, it's like small change joe_z If they had gone with a continental automotive ECU, they wouldn't have had these issues :D SpeedEvil _abc_: sure. Duckle ozzzy: Ad are all sports cars Duckle as* joe_z (you can probably guess who I worked for) password4 what happens to a tesla when its battery pack dies? joe_z password4, throw it out and buy a new one password4 i want a sell or two Duckle you either get a new one, or a new car password4 cell Duckle heh _abc_ SpeedEvil: on a more interesting German electric car note: the German Mail system has been producing it's own electric pickups for mail delivery. SpeedEvil _abc_: but ripping into them for losses, when they are standing up a production facility to produce many times more than that in sales is just comedic _abc_ SpeedEvil: They are probably interesting enough for other European services to catch on and buy them SpeedEvil password4: the battery pack is warranteed to a reasonable degree, I forget the details, if it fails, they return it SpeedEvil repair _abc_ SpeedEvil: having a big factory does not lead to great sales, alas. Duckle it's funny how it's become almost fashionable to hate on elon / tesla / spacex joze disassemble and photograph the secret placement of the 18650 batteries Duckle dude does crazy shit, but some of it's neat _abc_ SpeedEvil: Also Tesla is involved in all sorts of non-car side-plots which are hard to explain for some company which tries to make *cars* SpeedEvil _abc_: no, it doesn't, unless you have lots and lots of orders for the 3 SpeedEvil which they do _abc_ Nobody hates them, they are just Robber Baron style free for all "inventors", jumping stages etc. SpeedEvil ^Battery warranty is 8 years. password4 SpeedEvil: longer than 16 years? _abc_ What people hate is hype that does not pan out, and unserviceable cars (like the 1st Tesla models were) password4 I've seeen cell for sale on ebay too joze will they put a magnetic field to mars? nickromancer ACTION upgrades password4  Duckle there's elon religious nuts, and there's haters Duckle and then alot of meh. Looks cool :P Duckle I don't really know where I stand Duckle I feel like a tesla won't be interesting for me before we find a new battery chem Duckle as a daily driver that is SpeedEvil _abc_: you mean non-car as in solarcity? _abc_ http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2017/10/31/08/45DBADB400000578-5034679-image-a-6_1509440324443.jpg seriously. Gotta be blind to assume this is ANY genuine product. SpeedEvil Duckle: What length is your daily commute Duckle SpeedEvil: Short, the problem for me would be when I have to go far _abc_ SpeedEvil: solarcity and iirc 2 more things I forget, the home battery thing and the solar roof thing. There may be more. SpeedEvil _abc_: some of the other things you're thinking of may be other Musk companies. boring, forex ozzzy tesla will never be interesting to me unless they build a pickup that'll tow my trailer 500km on a charge and recharge in 10 minutes just about anywhere password8 https://www.ebay.com/itm/Tesla-Model-S-battery-module-24V-250Ah-5-3kWh-444-Panasonic-18650-3400mAh/262333679871?epid=942202208&hash=item3d144e48ff:g:OSkAAOSwh-1W5acD&vxp=mtr _abc_ SpeedEvil: "normally" companies which have the cojones to support leading edge product development on several fronts at once like Tesla does, have massive financial backing and 100 years of engineering experience. Duckle ozzzy: oooor, they put a small diesel genny in there :) _abc_ SpeedEvil: you can't pull working product out of someone's navel overnight, regardless of the hubris of the main CEO architect's visions. ozzzy then leave the electrics behind and just give me a diesel Duckle just a backup genny Shawn186 are 0.22 ohm resistors rare? SpeedEvil _abc_: Sure. So is your assumption the 3 will be a terrible car? Duckle limist the car to x power output ozzzy Duckle, that's a waste Duckle Shawn186: nope Duckle ozzzy: I mean, that's just a hybrid _abc_ SpeedEvil: so either the 1st products suck and the customers are paying alpha testers (that sounds so painfully familiar now), OR it's a company which did some of those things before in a somewhat related way and is able to deliver technically. ozzzy hybrid just eats away the payload Duckle it's a bandaid solution for li-ion tech Shawn186 why can't I find any red red grey/silver gold/silver resistors on any of these PC power supply boards? Duckle ... _abc_ SpeedEvil: my assumption would be the 3 would be better than 2 and 2 better than 1 but 3 may be less good than something turned out by someone with 100 years of experience. Like Renault/Nissan, GM, Toyota, etc etc. SpeedEvil _abc_: Why is the tesla S actually market leading in terms of customer satisfaction then _abc_ http://www.thedrive.com/news/11562/ford-teams-with-german-postal-service-to-develop-electric-vans http://www.dw.com/en/deutsche-post-dhl-makes-its-own-electric-delivery-vans/a-19332124 Duckle didn't tesla also make a truck? _abc_ SpeedEvil: probably the same reason people love unrepairable iShiny electronics. Nobody is going to say it sucks after paying through the nose and then "having the item some A-lister has" ozzzy Duckle, they're making a city delivery semi Duckle ozzzy: Makes much more sense then :P SpeedEvil _abc_: If customers say they're satisfied to other people, that actually doesn't matter. Duckle _abc_: that's not how they test for customer satisfaction Duckle have you driven one? _abc_