pfred1no pressure
HoolooBOOand yeah, looks like it's an array from that, and the hoses coming in
Kaylahyou mean cause there's no pressure on the drainage pipes?
bongofuryKaylah because that's normal
kcrowTrick or Treat !
bongofuryit is how all plumbing is done
Kaylahbut i wanna understand why
bongofurybecause you need higher pressure on supply, and drainage is wastewater
Kaylahalright i see
Kaylahbut then there already is pressure on the supply water, so why would there be more pumps inside each can?
bongofuryalso "spuitkop" means "nozzle" so it's possible those are tiny sumps
bongofuryto shoot water higher
Kaylahso the pressure in the small pipes wouldn't be high enough to shoot the water as high as we want?
HoolooBOOprobably each pump is controllable individually
HoolooBOOaas bongofury said
Kaylahalright interesting
HoolooBOOyou could use valves, but then it would be hard to make them always the same height
angangaindividual pumps?
Kaylahso where does the supply water come from, and where does the drainage water go to?
angangamore like electronic valves!
bongofuryanganga could be
Kaylahhmm anganga how does that work?
angangayou synchronize the water pressure from the main pump with the number of valves open
angangato get them to a certain height
HoolooBOOoh, that could work
bongofuryyes, if you want them all the same height
HoolooBOOyou'd need a really fancy control system for that
kmciakcrow: instead of candy I will give you a reel of 10 kohm 0604 resistors
bongofurymore sophisticated installations have individual control
angangaand if you need several heights you need several circuits
kcrowACTION grabs the reel and flies off...........
angangaI dont believe any installation have individual pumps
angangathats a noghtmare
Kaylahso if i get it right, the pressure is the same for all cans (due to 1 big pump) and each can is controllable by a valve that you can open or close?
angangaseveral circuits probably
electrobotbongofury just linked to Bellagio Las Vegas Fountain Show at Night in HD - YouTube - YouTube
HoolooBOOis there anything in the dutch that implies valves?
Kaylahnot really
Kaylahbut there's not much explanation about the water technology on those drawings at all
bongofurythey look like mini pumps to me
bongofurybased on the first photo you linked
bongofurywhich shows one of them clearly being sourced from the drainage water
angangathe bellagio one is the most sofisticated in the world and if I remember correctly it doesnt have individual pumps
bongofurythat's surprising
bongofuryperhaps they made that decision for easier servicing
Kaylahwhich one do you mean, bongofury ?
bongofurylook at the supply lines, Kaylah
kmciawhat framework/os/lib should I use to program my blue pills with minimal hassle
HoolooBOOit's possible that for very big systems (or something) it makes more sense to have bigger pumps?
bongofurythey are not on their own circuit
kmciathe choices i see are rust, mbed, and arduino
Kaylahthey arent?
kmciabut there's probably many more
bongofurythey are plugged directly into those drainage lines
HoolooBOOI'm not really sure of how the math works out
kmciaI care more about hardware abstraction than, say, threading
Kaylahhmm are you sure?
HoolooBOOlooks to me as if they all come from the center pipe
HoolooBOOwhich looks like the drainage pipes but is different
Kaylahthe center pipe is still a bit smaller than the drainage pipes
bongofuryoh ok
bongofuryyes that is a difference circuit
bongofuryI saw the perimeter one as well
bongofuryI guess they have 3 or more supply lines that are nearly the same size as the drainage
angangathere are several circuits, its imposible to know from those pictures if they are interconnected
angangathis is all guess work
HoolooBOOhmm, interesting, looks like each one is fed from a high-pressure circuit, and then drains into the drainage pipe
Kaylahhmm okay
angangaon site its easy to see how many pumps and valves you have
Kaylahwhat happens to the drainage water?
angangaand test with some water pressure
angangawho knows?
Kaylahbut what do you think
angangadoes it have a reservoir for the pressurized circuits?
HoolooBOOat least in a swimming pool it would be fed through a filter, then a pump, then recirculated
angangamaybe it returns there
HoolooBOOerr pump then filter
VanUnamedI[m so happy to bother people
angangaalways filter before pumping
VanUnamedthe manager of the pension get disturbed by my going outside smoking
VanUnamedI'm doing it on purpose
VanUnameda couple of times I went down even though i didn't have to smoke
Kaylahhmm okay
Kaylahis filtering also necessary for a fountain like this, anganga ?
HoolooBOOusually there's a pre-filter on the pump, but it's hard to pull things through a good filter
angangayes, so you dont obstruct your pump
Kaylahi see
Kaylahwhere do you think the filter is?
HoolooBOOnext to the pump
anganganear the pump?
angangawe dont even know how many pumps there are!
Kaylahthe pump is probably somewhere dry outside the fountain, right?
VanUnamedi want to tattoo myself with "born to lose live to win"
Kaylahso where does the supply water come from?
angangaor maybe its a submersible pump!
angangathe tap?
VanUnamedI hope you all have the jack o' lantern lit up
VanUnamedor the devilis gonna get into your house
HoolooBOOsupply water usually comes from the pool, I think
HoolooBOO(the pool that the water falls into
Kaylahhmm okay
HoolooBOOpossibly replenished by the tap, hard to say
Kaylahhere's how it looks when it's finished
Kaylahit's not really deep
angangano pool
KaylahHoolooBOO: shouldn't it be like that either way?
Kaylahhow else will they ever get the first water in the system
Kaylahif there's no tap
angangait recirculates from the drainage to a reservoir
Kaylahhmm why is the reservoir necessary?
HoolooBOOam I understanding it that this was once working but now is down for repairs?
angangato get enough water to keep the pressure
HoolooBOOor is that another example of a similar fountain?
angangaand to recirculate the used water
HoolooBOOwhat's the rope-y things on the bricks?
KaylahHoolooBOO: it's all the same fountain but has been in construction the last few months, it's completely new
angangaprobably the cables for the LEDs
angangaor for the electronic valves or both
Kaylahon this picture, the big hole is drainage, right?
Kaylahthe middle hole is where the water shoots out, i suppose
Kaylahi dont quite understand the other two things though
HoolooBOOoh that diagram makes more sense
HoolooBOOlittle hole is fountain water
HoolooBOOrope is probably LEDs
Kaylahare the LEDs still to be installed or something?
Kaylahthe drawings say that there are 3 powerLEDs
HoolooBOOoh, no idea
Kaylahbut i just see one circle thing and the cable
Kaylahanganga: do you know?
HoolooBOOcircle thing?
angangathere are no LEDs there
electrobotpfred1 just linked to The Floppotron: Through the Fire and Flames - YouTube
angangathat cable is at least for the electronic valve, probably also for the LEDs
angangaor maybe the LEDs are part of the cover and thats what the cable is for
angangawho knows
ZeroWalkerhmm, okay must be doing something wrong with the timer things. VSYNC which is about 60hz counts at 30 (pulses?) per second, and very stable at that, but still it's half where it should be.. hmm, well will have to do some more testing tomorrow, time to hit bed;)
Kaylahwhat do you mean by cover, anganga ?
Kaylahoh you mean the glass thing they'll put on top of it?
Kaylahor whatever they use to cover the hole
angangafor good money I can go there and reverse engineer the whole system
Kaylahhaha :p
pfred1just throw a box of soap into the fountain
angangaanything else is guess work
Kaylahso the cable is electric supply for the LEDs and electric valve
VanUnamedso all the french in it would get out?
Kaylahdoesnt matter if it's guesswork
angangaimpossible to know from those pictures
pfred1we used to soap this fountain in the center of town and it would fill the road with bubbles
Kaylahim just trying to get a better understanding in how this fountain could work
Kaylahit's not a big deal if it's not 100% correct for this particular fountain
pfred1like a half a block away
VanUnamedACTION still is sore at the french for the SI system.
angangaand thats what documentation is for
Kaylahso the fountain is a square, and on the edges there is also a drain
Kaylahdo you know what that is for, and where the water in the drain goes to?
VanUnamedI've been designing my bloody cabin, fuck
HoolooBOOthe water drain goes to a reservoir
HoolooBOOthat the pump feeds from
VanUnamedand I haven't done the roof yet.
angangaI said that before
Kaylaheven the drains on the edges?
VanUnamedRidge board, rafter, bullshit of all kinds and colours
Kaylahthese black lines i mean
angangathats what the drains are for
Kaylahhmm okay
Kaylahso they also feed the supply?
VanUnamedwe had a fountain like that in shitford england
HoolooBOOwhy would they put the water anywhere else?
Kaylahor they feed the reservoir that feeds the supply
Kaylahi dont know, i thought they maybe just let it go away like drains in a normal street
angangathats a waste of water!
HoolooBOOit could, theoretically but that'd be a waste of water
VanUnamedthe flames are long gone but the pain lingers onn
Kaylahhmm okay
jsoftYay! :D Picked up my new van today :)
VanUnamedlucky you jsoft
jsoftYerp :)
Kaylahthen what's the difference between the drains on the edges and the drains inside the cans?
Kaylahoh okay
VanUnamedACTION celebrates that even thou he is eating raw pastured eggs, raw milk and unchlorinated water from the wells, he is not sick.
Kaylahso they get taken the exact same place
DoYouKnowI knew the h was somewhere over there
xyz111Hi all, had a very basic question. On a network interface card, how does it know when it has received a new packet? Is there some sort of start and end signal? Like a particular pattern of bits it is constantly trying to match against?
VanUnamedwhat van jsoft
Kaylahhmm and what happens if it's raining very much
jsoftVanUnamed, Toyota Hiace 3.0D
angangaKaylah: its impossible to know
Kaylahand there's too much water
Kaylahthe water doesn't get taken somewhere else?
VanUnamedit means youre in england if it rains
jsoftYeah I missed my last hiace :)
angangaKaylah: the reservoir should have a drainage for excess water
Kaylahoh interesting
jsoftVanUnamed, Your name implies a van fan as well?
Kaylahwhere does that drained water go to, then?
VanUnamedmaybe so lol
VanUnamedhow long is the vehicle jsoft
angangathe same place as the rest of drainages from the street
VanUnamedi was about to write just how long but then
VanUnamedi realized LOL
jsoftVanUnamed, its about... 2.9m I think
VanUnamedonly the wheel base
VanUnamedor all of it
jsoftI think all of it
VanUnamedmi bloody ford transit is 6.4 metres
VanUnamedbut i won't have a van in a bit anymore
jsoftperhaps it is the wheel base
VanUnamedyeah it is the wheelbase
VanUnamedits sooo broken lolol
blockySo I have an LED strip controller that says 12VDC in and 6A out but it doesn't specify the power rating. The LED strip I want to power is 1m long I think, 4 pin RGB
VanUnamedcraiova - bucuresti with a lorry that works (which offensively had the same mileage as my ford) 2hr 30 mins.
Kaylahah okay thank you anganga
VanUnamedsame road with mine. 4 hours and a half.
VanUnamedford is shit don't buy it.
Kaylahand what if there's a lack of water cause it evaporates or animals drink it?
angangaKaylah: its impossible to know the specifics
angangathe fountain doesnt work unless the reservoir has a minimum amount of water
angangathats what the reservoir is for
SpeedEvilSort-of-on-topic - is there an explicit grammar for alexa device requests?
blockyOh nvm it's 15W
Kaylahand what would happen if the reservoir runs out of water
Kaylahit just stops working?
VanUnamedthat people won't be happy campers.
Viper-7SpeedEvil: speaking idiot tends to work well
Kaylahor do they fill it up with tap water or something
angangait should have some kind of sensor and stop
SpeedEvil'alexa turn <lampname/roomname> to 100%' works. 'top, bright, max, ...' doesn't
VanUnamedI am thinking about radiators sabotage
angangadoes it have a plc?
Kaylahwhat's a plc?
angangahow many inputs and outputs are there?
VanUnamedremember to keep the lantern on all night
Kaylahi dont really know
blockyWhat's the best place to get a wall wart? I need 12V center positive. Are there standard sizes for DC barrel jacks?
Kaylahi just have the pictures and drawing
angangathere is a lot of missing information
DocScrutinizer05Kaylah: there's quite certanly no pump or anything in every can. The thin pipes all go to one central pump (or fresh water tap) that provides pressured water supply. Large pipes collect waste water - and possibly provide it to the central pump. The electrics are meant to connect to a lid per can (detail1) that has 3 integrated power LEDs
angangaDocScrutinizer05: thanks for resuming what we have been saying the last hour
Kaylahaha okay
Kaylahwell it's good to hear more people confirming it :p
Kaylahare the electric valves as you mentioned common for fountains like this?
Kaylahor is it not really required
absurdisthow to tolerance out bias resistors? just add 4 1% tolerance resistors instead to get higher accuracy?
angangaKaylah: I just hope you havent been hired to make sense of this system
Kaylahhaha not at all, i'm a student and trying to learn about this
DocScrutinizer05anganga: I can't resume what's been said last hour since it was too much contradicting stuff, much of which seemed like a lot of assuming not based on anything but "how would *I* design that stuff"
angangaDocScrutinizer05: not really, its been all guess work from the slow feeding of pictures
Kaylahi'll show my pictures again for anyone who doesn't wanna scroll up too much:
DocScrutinizer05I don't think the cans have valves, but that's also only guessing
angangaDocScrutinizer05: if they dont have valves, then there are several circuits and the fountain will work in "steps"
Kaylahi also have some doubts about the layers on the first picture
DocScrutinizer05anganga: why?
angangafrom what I have seen from other similar installations the water show is a bit more dynamic than that
DocScrutinizer05who says this is a water show?
angangaDocScrutinizer05: how else would you control from which can the water comes out?
angangaDocScrutinizer05: again guessing from similar looking fountains
DocScrutinizer05nobody said this would be a requirement or planned feature for this instrallation, actually all pictures and plans suggest it's not
DocScrutinizer05Kaylah: the 'layers' are a normal way to build a fountain like this
Kaylahdo you think there will be a tap supply to the reservoir?
DocScrutinizer05definitely yes
Kaylahwhy would that be?
DocScrutinizer05because nobody wants to fill up the water supply daily
HoolooBOOexcept for the way that all the things are hooked up to the supply pipe
DocScrutinizer05with a bucket
Kaylahhmm okay
Kaylahbut normally the tap supply wouldn't be necessary right?
HoolooBOOsince there's two (or maybe a third) supply pipe, then those'd b the only steps you get
Kaylahcause the drained water keeps getting reused
HoolooBOOtheoretically yes
DocScrutinizer05normally it's only needed "for service"
angangaI have seen that fountain in action and it seems very similar to the one at hand
HoolooBOObut I'd guess that this fountain loses a fair bit of water
Kaylahyeah i see
angangaa bit of wind and it will lose a lot of water
Kaylahso the reservoir has both a drainage that takes water away (like in a normal street drain) if there's been alot of rain
Kaylahand a tap supply for when there's a lack of water
Kaylahcool, thanks :)
Kaylahhow exactly does that work though
Kaylahare there sensors to know when there's lack of water?
HoolooBOOa float would be a really easy way
DocScrutinizer05there are a number of ways, most simple is a drain high in tank for excess water, and a swimming lever valve for fresh water supply
Kaylahon the first picture, about the layers, i don't really understand which layers are supposed to be waterproof
Kaylahthe top layer are granite stones, and the seams between them are waterproof
Kaylahi mean which layers don't let water go through
DocScrutinizer05Kaylah: there's a water tight foil and the concrete on perimeter
Kaylahso the top layer is supposedly waterproof, but all the way at the bottom there's a waterproof foil
DocScrutinizer05then the top layer also is supposed to be more or less sealed
Kaylahi don't understand why that's there if the top layer is already waterproof
angangaanother example
DocScrutinizer05the top layer is not 100% waterproof
Kaylahah okay
Kaylahso the water tight foil at the bottom is just for the water that sealed in anyway?
angangaif it was waterproof why would you want drains in each can?
Kaylahthen where does that water go?
DocScrutinizer05into the cans and the trenches at perimeter
Kaylahbut that water is all the way down there
Kaylahhow can it reach the cans and trenches?
DocScrutinizer05the water in drainage pipes os probably not recycled
Kaylahif there's some water that manages to get through the top layer, and then it sinks down to the water tight foil at the bottom
Kaylahwhere does it go next
HoolooBOOthere's also drain pipes in the fill material
Kaylahyeah i was wondering about those pipes aswell :s
DocScrutinizer05those are true waste water
Kaylahthe 75mm diameter drain pipes
Kaylahand the 80mm diameter drainwater pipe
angangaits imposible to know
HoolooBOOthose let the fill material (zandcement? is just compacted sand?)
Kaylahzandcement is a mixture of sand-cement
Kaylahhold on i got a pic
Kaylahthis is the sandcement layer
HoolooBOOlooks somewhat permeable, I think, so that water doesn't pool up on the surface
KaylahDocScrutinizer05: which drainage pipes do you mean?
DocScrutinizer05usual underfill for pavement stone floor etc
Kaylahyeah it is a usual underfill for pavement
HoolooBOOI'd actually guess that any water that gets past that layer is pretty clean
Kaylahso what are the 75mm drainage pipes for?
DocScrutinizer05Kaylah: I'm not entirely sure if they got true pemeable drainage or only that "trench" in the foil
Kaylahwhat trench do you mean?
angangathe perimeter trenches
KaylahDocScrutinizer05: what do you mean with "true" drainage and "true" waste water?
DocScrutinizer05Afvoer water 90mm
Kaylahoh okay
Kaylahso the water that runs down to the watertight foil goes away through the 90mm pipe?
DocScrutinizer05doesn't help I don't know what afvoer means
Kaylah80mm* lol
Kaylahafvoer means drain i think
DocScrutinizer05that is most likely not going back to pump
Kaylahhmm okay
Kaylahso that water is just taken away like the water in a street
HoolooBOOyeah probably drains to sewers or something
Kaylahand what about the 75mm drain pipes in the sandcement?
DocScrutinizer05unclear what are the "Dainageleiding 75mm"
HoolooBOOprobably similar for them
DocScrutinizer05could be both
Kaylahbut how does water get in there at all?
Kaylahin those 75mm pipes
DocScrutinizer05that's the question
stiv2k_can somebody help me explain why this LCD monitor block diagram uses three EEPROM chips, one for the microcontroller, one for the DVI output, and one for the VGA output?
Kaylahthere's also a geotextile under the watertight foil, any idea why that is?
DocScrutinizer05either they are normal watertight pipes you connect to the cans. Or they are pemeable and collect water from the sand cement
Kaylahhmm i see, a permeable pipe
Kaylahthat makes alot of sense
angangawe should create #civilengineering channel
Kaylahhmm one more question
Kaylahon the drawing, you see the pipes of each can going below the watertight foil
goldstarif in a circuit, the earth is derived from the neutral, why would current only travel down neutral and not also earth under non-fault conditions?
jsoftgoldstar, it should not go down earth
Kaylahon this picture you see the watertight foil on the left side a bit
goldstarjsoft: sure, but earth is derived from neutral?
Kaylahbut none of the pipes of the cans go deeper into the ground, so how can they go under the foil?
goldstarjsoft: Im thinking parallel circuits here
Kaylahso how can the picture match with the drawing?
jsoftyeah essentially
DocScrutinizer05Kaylah: prolly it doesn't
jsoftgoldstar, but the earth wire should not be connected to anything but the chassis or whatever on the device
Kaylahso the drawing is wrong?
DocScrutinizer05which detail makes you think any pipes go under the foil?
Kaylahthese drawings
Kaylahperhaps especially the second one
goldstarjsoft: I am talking from the supplier's side though, if the earth is linked to the neutral from the supplier, then it's a parallel circuit
DocScrutinizer05the extansion under the cans is only a mechanical support
Kaylahbut on the second picture you actually see the lines under the foil take a bend and go further
jsoftgoldstar, They generally have the earthing at the transformers
jsoftgoldstar, so in long haul stuff, the earth return would be high resistance
DocScrutinizer05Kaylah: no idea
Kaylahim asking cause if the drawings are indeed wrong and the pipes never go under the foil, then the 75mm pipes could indeed just be the supply or drainage pipes from the cans
jsoftgoldstar, thats my understanding of it anyway. The long haul stuff is not really earthed like house hold stuff is, at least that's my understanding of it.
stiv2k_can somebody help me explain why this LCD monitor block diagram uses three EEPROM chips, one for the microcontroller, one for the DVI output, and one for the VGA output?
Kaylahbut if the drawings are correct and the pipes go deeper, then i think the 75mm pipes are permeable pipes for water in the sandcement
Kaylahwhat you think?
JFK911stiv2k_: for the two outputs, probably there is different DDC data given
JFK911DDC is an i2c eeprom after all.
DocScrutinizer05for me that stuff going down (and under the foil) from can bottom is the fundament
angangaKaylah: what if the thing on top of the pipes is the geotextile?!
stiv2k_JFK911: DDC?
stiv2k_JFK911: not EDID ?
JFK911edid tells what format the eeprom is
KaylahDocScrutinizer05: but on these pictures it looks like the cans are just supported by 4 thin poles:
Kaylahor is there more fundament under those 4 thin poles?
Kaylahanganga: hmm what do you mean?
DocScrutinizer05yes those 4 thin steel poles go to massive concrete blocks
Kaylahi don't see any foil on top of the pipes
Kaylahoh okay i see
angangafrom what you said there are 2 different layers
JFK911stiv2k_: So if you look in the schematic you can verify this or any idea by seeing where those eeproms are wired to
angangaone shown on that picture and another one which isnt
angangamaybe the drawing is showing the one that isnt there at that point of the construction
Kaylahhmm DocScrutinizer05 maybe those bended lines at the bottom here ( are actually text? is that possible?
stiv2k_JFK911: so i fixed a monitor by replacing it with a mainboard i got on ebay, but the monitor now identifies as a 22" when its really a 19". Do I need to reprogram those two DDC chips with the data from the old board ? what about the third eeprom
Kaylah here
angangano way! thats the continuation of the pipe
JFK911stiv2k_: probably yes for the two eeproms probably not for the third one @ the mcu
Kaylahcause i wasn't sure what those lines under the can are
Kaylahi thought those lines were the pipes, and they take a bend way at the bottom
stiv2k_JFK911: the splash screen is AOC instead of ViewSonic
DocScrutinizer05looks pretty much like text to me
Kaylahbut looking closely, it looks more like text, cause the lines aren't equally long
JFK911AOC is cool
stiv2k_even though its a ViewSonic monitor but the mainboard is from an AOC
JFK911they made my hp
JFK911quality stuff
jaakkosgoldstar: are you thinking of one of these setups?
goldstarjaakkos: yes, TN-C-S in particular
JFK911stiv2k_: find the sizes of all these eeproms?
Kaylahalright we solved that mystery :p
stiv2k_is the splash screen stored on the mcu eeprom
stiv2k_JFK911: the two ddc ones are FM24C02A and the mcu one is A25L020
angangaif it is really text, its a bigger mystery, now you need to know what it says!
KaylahDocScrutinizer05: so in conclusion the 75mm pipes are probably just the drainage pipes we see on the pictures?
stiv2k_JFK911: im going to buy a eeprom usb programmer on ebay to flash them with a soic8 clip
DocScrutinizer05can't say, would be normal to have permeable true drainage piping as well
DocScrutinizer05not only regular wastewater piping
Kaylahhmm okay
JFK911stiv2k_: sounds good
Kaylahshouldn't they be visible in the pictures of the construction site though?
Kaylahif they were there
DocScrutinizer05also the wastewater piping *looks* to me like larger than 75mm
goldstarjaakkos: there is a known flaw with the TN-C-S solution that if the neutral is cut from the supplier's side, then all the earth protected equipment within a property will reach 230v potential
goldstarjaakkos: hence my question
Kaylahhmm good point
stiv2k_JFK911: i realize i can probably physically unsolder the eeprom chips and resolder them on the other board in less time, but i'd like to try the soft way
jaakkosgoldstar: yes, that is true for sure
Kaylahbut then why arent the big drainage pipes and the supply pipes drawn on the drawing?
DocScrutinizer05Kaylah: yes, they should be visible, though a few more photos of the construction site would help
stiv2k_JFK911: in fact, i did have that problem with a TV i fixed where I ordered a replacement mainboard but it was for a different type of panel. So i swapped the only eeprom chip it had and that made it all better
KaylahDocScrutinizer05: that's the best picture from that phase i have
Kaylahon the next ones the sandcement is already covering the pipes
goldstarjaakkos: there is somthing else going on with the earth in such a setup other than high resistence. I am guessing the larger CSA on the neutral line has a larger voltage portential over it, and the earth has a small potential on it. When the neutral is cut, then ALL the potential is on the earth conductor
jaakkosgoldstar: normally when the current is coming from the phase lines (L1-3), it passes through the powered device and exits to N. then it will have to continue to the generator ground
jaakkosgoldstar: so the current will pass the point where PE is derived from, but the current won't go there to the equipment because in theory there is no path to ground from there
DocScrutinizer05Kaylah: anyway the only decent "ruler" we have are the 75mm diameter on the drainage pipes. from that and the picture of NYM electro cable I extimate diameter of cans 30 to 50 cm, and the wastewater piping a 120mm, not 75mm
goldstarjaakkos: what if someone touches a metal item that is grounded? that should create a path surely?
jaakkosgoldstar: ...except that there can be, if the equipment is grounded by multiple such systems. and if those turn out to be smaller impedance, then yeah current would pass through equipment enclosures
goldstarjaakkos: but that just doesn't make sense to me - I am intrigued how much potential the earth has on it
KaylahDocScrutinizer05: the big round holes of the cans are 256mm
goldstarjaakkos: although there is also bonding" which probably reduces the potential even more
goldstarjaakkos: would be interesting to have real numbers to play with
Kaylahhmm DocScrutinizer05 can't we estimate it more accurately from this picture?
jaakkosgoldstar: CSA?
DocScrutinizer05Kaylah: only when you know the exact diameter of the NYM cable
Kaylahthe big circle is 256mm, half of that is 128mm and we see that the drain hole is about 3/5 of the radius
goldstarjaakkos: cross sectional area of the cable
Kaylahand (3/5)*128 is
goldstarjaakkos: 1.5mm^2 for example
DocScrutinizer05ooh, ok. yes
Kaylahhaha based on this estimation the 75mm would be possible for the drainage
jaakkosgoldstar: well, the danger from the cut N line is quite clear
Kaylahyou think that's indeed correct?
jaakkosgoldstar: are you thinking of that or the non-faulted case?
goldstarjaakkos: non-faulted
DocScrutinizer05when your 256mm is correct then it makes sense
Kaylahyeah i saw that on the drawings
Kaylahhaha i finally feel like i gave some input myself :p
Kaylahalright so it all makes sense now
jaakkosgoldstar: but yeah if someone touches a metal item that is grounded, it will create a path
Kaylahthose things under the cans on the drawing are just mechanical support
jaakkosgoldstar: but the path has much higher impedance than the normal path
sockofleashow can i calculate the voltage at the point where v1 and v2 intersect?
Kaylahthe 75mm pipes are the drainage pipes from the cans, and the 80mm pipe is drainage for water that managed to sink down despite the watertight top layer
sockofleasdo i just add the resistors and calculate as if in parallel?
jaakkosgoldstar: so then you should be able to analyze it as 2 resistors in parallel, one of them is the legit N/PE line and one is the human
Kaylahi think i know most important things now, i can write a decent explanation in my report
Kaylahthank you guys soooooo much!!!
KaylahDocScrutinizer05: anganga HoolooBOO bongofury, thank you all very much <3 <3 <3 <3
DocScrutinizer05Kaylah: why don't you ask the architect or construction company?
goldstarjaakkos: higher impedance, lower voltage pontential because earth is sharing voltage potential with the neutral, and bonding for earth conductor which further reduces voltage potential for earth
Kaylahwell it's actually quite silly but this is where i had my internship
angangaprobably homework
goldstarjaakkos: is there any way to measure it ?
Kaylahthey were remaking a huge square, and this fontain was part of it
Kaylahbut my internship coordinator was a dick and didn't ever explain shit to me :(
DocScrutinizer05anganga: based on such shitty photos as only resource? hardly
Kaylahbut now i have to write a report of 7500 to 14000 words about my internship
sockofleasanyone mind helping me out?
angangahomework :P
Kaylahwell yeah but im genuinely interested in learning how it works...
Kaylahi don't have to write about this fontain in particular if i don't want to
angangawe saw that, at least thats why I tried to help
Kaylahi appreciate it very much :)
Kaylahi'd be nowhere without your help
angangathere is no shame in doing homework, we all had to do it at some point or another
DocScrutinizer05if you were not genuinely interested, channel had shown you the stinkyfinger ;-)
Kaylahwhen i started looking at the pictures i thought it was never gonna work cause i had no clue how this or any fountain works
Kaylahhaha :p
theBearstiv2k_, bit slow, but here is my relevant, entertaining (or saddening/shocking if yer a bit serious-er than anyone really should be,) and i suspect very helpful and order-something saving ;-)
Kaylahi can mention you guys in my thanking word if you want
angangano need, but it would be hilarious a note on the report (this report couldnt be done without the help of freenode #electronics channel)
DocScrutinizer05Kaylah: a tip: mention the very poor info you had to base your report on, and all the stuff you had to do to recover decent understanding of what's been planned
theBearstiv2k_, and the answer is yes, of course it all worked perfectly, theBear don't pose for fiction, he's got better things to do ;-) also yes, once neatened up and properly finished, it WAS a rock solid nice neat mod, and was at least a durable/tough as any other lappy screemn
jaakkosgoldstar: well I guess you could measure with a current meter if there is current being passed through some device's PE wire
Kaylahaah yes good idea anganga
angangayes, definitely mention the lack of help from your coordinator
KaylahDocScrutinizer05: i think i'll say that when i have to defend my report to my professor verbally but not write it in the report itself
DocScrutinizer05that works too
Kaylahi don't want the report itself to look too complainy and whiney
angangagood point
Kaylahcause it might look like i had a negative mindset about the internship
DocScrutinizer05but nothing wrong in citing the initially available info (photos) verbatim, and the estimations and conclusions needed from that
Kaylahyeah indeed
Kaylahyou know there was another intern some of the time, and the coordinator literally said "one of you go somewhere else cause i don't like it when 2 people follow me around"
jaakkosgoldstar: though I'm not qualified to make modifications for such measurement :)
goldstarjaakkos: no worries, thanks
theBeardammit, noone even commented on the super-awesome, and kinda interesting, and if nothing else, surprisingly ubiquitous and convenient way to read and write little modern serial proms on just about any pc waaay back to the mid or even early 90s, lappies too, well, all but the VERY newest ones
sockofleasplease how can i calculate the voltage at the point where v1 and v2 intersect?
angangaI have interns all year around in my company and sometimes they can be annoying
angangapeople need to respect the personal space
DocScrutinizer05Kaylah: documenting initial info and how you made your conclusions is best scientific practice, shows you can accomplish stuff
slyver1sockofleas, you should ask this on Chegg
theBearsockofleas, if yer happy to call the opamp side of that junction as negligible influence/effect on your voltage, i'd say simple resistive divider between +v1 and +v2
DocScrutinizer05Kaylah: ... even without support from instructor
theBearooh, answers there too, if i wasn't so lazy i could check if calling teh opamp negligible WAS ok, or not
sockofleastheBear: how do u figure that the two batteries are a voltage divider?
ballI think sockofleas' lecturer hates him or her.
KaylahDocScrutinizer05: yeah indeed :)
DocScrutinizer05theBear: opamp is negligible, but Rf otoh...
DocScrutinizer05fun starts on calculating gain of opamp
theBearsockofleas, the divider is the resistors, then yer know the batteries got one end to gnd (aka 0v) and being batteries. that tells yer the other end of them is battery-volts higher than 0
stiv2k_theBear: wtf, lol
angangaIf I remember correctly that problem should be resolved by the superposition theorem
sockofleastheBear: neither the r1 nor r2 resistors are connected to ground
theBearDocScrutinizer05, mmm, i was kinda hoping that the stage of a full EE course that yer get homework like that one, would be early enough that noone would be able to think up or likely even comprehend what you just said <grin>
Kaylahone more question, do you guys know what the red and blue circles/squares could mean on this plan?
angangaDocScrutinizer05: how can be the opamp negligible, its obviously an inverting configuration
ballKaylah: They could mean literally anything.
ballKaylah: That's what the legend's for.
DocScrutinizer05anganga: opamp imput impedance usually is very high
Kaylahthey're not on the legend unfortunately...
theBearstiv2k_, think about tho, every vga port since the dark ages, and in all but the silliest/most-overzealous monitor designs, the other end of the cable (inside the monitor case) is LITERALLY what is in my pictures, excepting of course the wr-en pin is tied the opposite way, and the supply varies between cable/vga-port supplied and monitor supplied, both of which can make sense depending on what kinda monitor it is and what it gonna be doing
angangano current, supposedly, flows into the inputs
ballSomeone building a roundabout?
theBearstiv2k_, and if yer got a proper os, you almost definately got all the tools and the drivers already loaded and good-to-go, to probe and dump and write arbitrary stuff over those 2 pins
angangaby superposition you calculate the equivalent Vin and R1 then use the inverting opamp transfer function to get Vout
DocScrutinizer05anganga: my comment was a response to >>if yer happy to call the opamp side of that junction as negligible influence/effect on your voltage, i'd say simple resistive divider between +v1 and +v2<<
piperlesterHowdy all. I'm hoping someone can help me sort out an issue with a logic level N mosfet _never_ going low, resulting in the the fan running non-stop. Here's a picture of the setup (and there is a 10k resistor from gate to gnd, I just pulled it when taking the picture)
theBearhmm... if there is a superposition, i wonder if there is a duperstrapolation to complete the pair :)\
angangaDocScrutinizer05: yes, exactly right
theBearpiperlester, dare i risk a guess and maybe be all wrong, but you got the fet between the fan and v+, rather than fan and gnd/0v, right ?
piperlestertheBear - nope - 12v to fan, fan to fet, fet to ground
DocScrutinizer05anganga: (for the inverter config) you basically assume Vin+=Vin- for steady state, and that means the voltage divider from R1/2 gets compensated by Rf and output voltage
theBearpiperlester, hmmm.... got a gate resistor (series to input/control signal) ?
DocScrutinizer05so the question "which voltage is on junction R1 - R2 - Vin - Rf" is a prank question
theBear^^^ while good practice, that is unlikely to change this situation, just a passing thought
piperlestertheBear - not currently, I had tried that (logic level convertor +5v<-->220Ohm<-->Gate
DocScrutinizer05forst apporach is "it's identical to volatge on Vin+"
theBearoh, we talking that tiny to92 fet ? i'd guess that isn't big enough for an average pc fan, and i also notice it looks like the 74err, the octa-buffer there, might not have power
angangathe question is whats the value of Vout
piperlesterif I use the multi on the output from the llc, I see it going down to ~0v and back to around 4.5v when it should. current measures around 140mA
DocScrutinizer05you can prove that volatge difference between Vin+ and Vin- of an opamp less than V+ - V- / opamp-gain for all output boltages that are not clipped
theBearpiperlester, ahh good, you have measured at relevant places (one reason i long ago swore off breaboards is cos they like having intermittent/dodgy connections that can often measure good at one end, and do nothing at the important emnd
theBearpiperlester, erm, you say current there, how exactly you measuring that current, and where is it going ?]
theBearand that was a literal "how exactly" btw
piperlestertheBear - one lead from the multi to the same row on the breadboard, other lead to gnd
piperlesterthe fet is a 12A 60V, so it should be capable of driving that little 12v fan
theBearpiperlester, aha, see, that's not how current works
theBearpiperlester, you just measured how hard you were trying to blow the current-hole fuse on yer meter
theBearand i still not sure what a llc is, 74245 maybe ?
piperlestertheBear - nah, I know the current coming off the pin on the logic level converter isn't near enough for me to do something stupid :)
piperlestertheBear - the llc is sn74lvc245an
DocScrutinizer05spoiler alarm: V1/R1 + V2/R2 + Vout/Rf = 0
theBearto measure current with any kinda current-metering thing (any kind that has wires that is) you gotta "break a conductor" and measure in series (the meter acts as a wire to replace the gap you just broke in the circuit) .. if yer think about basic ohms law, and maybe something simple like a battery and a resistor/led, it becomes clear that you gotta replace a section of conductor with the meter in series within the circuit/current-path you wanna
theBearmeasure, cos that's just how iit works
theBearpiperlester, yeah, but for our purposes just 74245 is enough for everyone to know what we talkin about... outta interest, why you call it llc ?
Artesian3DI have a 12V 2amp (40N force) solenoid that needs a diode. What kind should I use?
piperlestertheBear - logic level convertor - llc - I work in IT, we acronym everything :)
angangaDocScrutinizer05: doesnt sound right, at the end of the day you need a transfer function like Vout = - (Ri / Rf) * Vin
DocScrutinizer05and what's Ri? ;-)
theBearpiperlester, and we getting to the point where i would say something like "if yer suspect you got a blowed-up fet, it's easy to test.. make sure there no power to the circuit (you can usually get away with doing this in-circuit, at least in cases like this where it acting as a simple switch to a power raill) then get yer meter on ohms or even beep-ey setting, and check yer got some huge resistance, or often so high it reads as a nothing on the
theBearmeter, between d and s pins... if not, it worth just shorting g and s for a moment with anything you got handy, cos the gate can sometimes hold a charge in it's own parasitic capacitance, making the fet "stay turned on" even without power to the rest of the circuit (even in yer hand nowhere near a circuit on a bad day), and by now, yer know if the fet is probably-ok, or blowed up (short circuit d/s)" which would explain yer problem real quick
angangathe thevenin equivalent of v1 and v2 and R1 and R2
theBearpiperlester, ahh, i can deal with that, now i know it <grin>
DocScrutinizer05anganga: you however have a point in that sth must be wrong with my formula
DocScrutinizer05I just mused about V2=0
angangaits 3am here and I dont feel like getting a pen and paper to calculate the thevenin equivalent
DocScrutinizer05though, works even then
piperlestertheBear - would a resistor between G and GND not accomplish the same thing when there's no voltage being applied?
angangaDocScrutinizer05: thats why I said you need to use the superposition theorem replace each source with a short and solve the resulting equations for current
theBearpiperlester, tho assuming your measurements of 0v and 4.5ish/logic-high were made AT the fet pins physically (to avoid any bad-connections tricking you) and you were only seeing very close to 0v between d/s pins the whole time, that would also "prove" you had a blowed up fet
angangaits a clasic circuits 101 exercise
theBearpiperlester, good point, and you already got one of them, which is convenient <grin>
DocScrutinizer05the current in junction point on Vin- must sum up to zero, *without* the current to Vin
angangaits been 10+ years since I attended that class
DocScrutinizer05voltage at that point must be 0 too
DocScrutinizer05since Vin+ is 0
DocScrutinizer05so I1 + I2 + I3 = 0
theBearpiperlester, and i'll mention again, if we are talking bout that little to92 tinyfet, i found that very few fets that size/package, certainly none that are common or easily found in this country, have bit enough current ratings to survive driving a pc-fan
angangaI3 wont be 0
piperlestertheBear -
DocScrutinizer05anganga: nobody said that
angangaohh sorry, you are right
piperlesterI'm new to fet's, so I may be reading the datasheet wrong but I'm usually pretty good with these things :)
DocScrutinizer05I3 = - (I1 + I2)
angangayes, its an inverting amplifier, its sinking current
theBearpiperlester, ahh, not only does the little feller have some kickass kinda n umbers there, but i wasn't looking hard enough, that's no to92, it's a fancy modern teeny-to220-esque feller
piperlestertheBear - all good. just measured d to s resistence, it's a big number with no voltage applied to gate
theBearpiperlester, nah, i don't even gotta go thru the details tables to know yer got that one right... when yer got things like logic-level and only switching hard on or off, the specs become real easy to read
theBearpiperlester, hmmm, so errm, that suggests that somewhere between the llc output/pulldown (g/s aka g/gnd in this case) you measured earlier, your hmmm, always on .. you double-checked you got the fet right way round on the pins ?
DocScrutinizer05anganga: since we know Vin- ~= Vin+ = 0, we calculate I1 = V1/R2, I2 = V2/R2 and I3 = Vout/Rf
DocScrutinizer05anganga: since we know Vin- ~= Vin+ = 0, we calculate I1 = V1/R1, I2 = V2/R2 and I3 = Vout/Rf
DocScrutinizer05thus V1/R1 + V2/R2 + Vout/Rf = 0
notmikeHi, I have a question about electronics
theBeareek, i gotta get my move on, i got a couple places that need being-at before certain times... i'm out ! and you got this piperlester, yer all over the theory by the sound of things, and rapidly narrowing down the issue by running outta components/pins/voltages that you aren't sure are doing their things ;-)
DocScrutinizer05(V1/R1 + V2/R2) * Rf = -Vout
angangaDocScrutinizer05: so you got again to your previous answer
Sculptordamn, that parole officer can't wait, theBear
piperlesterthanks theBear - I'm almost out of time myself. Much appreciated all the help.
theBearSculptor, ooh, touche, well played !
DocScrutinizer05theBear: how's your toe?
notmikewhatever, what a useless chan
theBearcan't get a answer if ya don't ask a question, or if you ask one but i rushing outta the room as i read it
joe_znotmike, you haven't asked your question
Sculptorjust ask
Sculptorwe can't read your mind
Sculptoror, can we
joe_zyou did even worse than asking to ask
angangaI surely can
notmikeWell I was letting you know I had a question so I could know if I can ask.
DocScrutinizer05doesn't help motivation to answer when you start flaming before you ask ;-)
DocScrutinizer05and always "don't ask if somebody there, don't ask to ask, just ask!"
Sculptorand don't ask to ask to ask
notmikeThat's rude though, to just start asking. What if others are asking?
joe_znotmike, this isn't a room with real voices where you can 'talk over someone'
DocScrutinizer05no, spamming channel with noise is considered mildly rude
Sculptorask, before you use up all your free questions
joe_zevery message will get through
notmikeoh, well now I feel a bit silly
joe_zI mean, don't flood the channel or something, but you don't have to worry about talking over someone
joe_zthere's multiple conversations going on at once in here all the time
joe_zsometimes a single person is even involved in multiple conversations at once
notmikeDon't you ever get disoriented though, trying to help so many people all at once?
DocScrutinizer05all the time ;-)
DocScrutinizer05consider it brain jogging ;-)
joe_znotmike, personally I tend to ignore others when I'm helping someone
Sculptoroh, Dchnitzel05 is here
joe_zI might hold 2 conversations at once, if I'm feeling up to it. generally not more though
joe_zanyway, notmike, what is your question?
notmikeugh, me too. I think that's why I'm having so much trouble in Circuits. I try to pay attention but I keep getting distracted by my Pinterest.
DocScrutinizer05you got exclusive atention now, what's the question?
notmikeI want to find the p.d. between points A and B. I'm not sure how to approach this problem though, could I have a hint?
DocScrutinizer05ignore all 0R5
DocScrutinizer05hint: the components 5R 10R 12V 9V (0R5 * 2) form a circuit
DocScrutinizer05current flows there
DocScrutinizer05feeding the 9V battery reverse
DocScrutinizer05even more basic hint: A-B is not connected, so no current flows there
notmikeur really smart, huh?
DocScrutinizer05gmm, I'm not sure the 0R5 culd get ignored
jaakkosadd up potential differences in the circuit. the sum must equal zero.
jaakkosthen use the fact that I is same everywhere
jaakkosthat lets you solve for I
DocScrutinizer05IOW you got 12V-8V via series of 0R5 0R5 10R 6R
DocScrutinizer05now you got I and can calculate voltage across each of the Rs
DocScrutinizer05and that's it
DocScrutinizer05ACTION still frowns at reverse-feeding the 8V supply, you shouldn't do that in real life ;-)
notmikeomg this is so cute, defs going to pinterest! :>
notmikeI'm sorry, I was paying attention. I just thought I'd have to apply kirchhoff's voltage law to the outer circuit
notmikebut that dress was so cute
DocScrutinizer05who's kirchhoff? ;-P
DocScrutinizer05I'm applying I=U/R
notmikeidk, some ded guy I guess. I'm going to fail circuits T_T
jaakkosnotmike: I literally stated the content of that law
jaakkosit's quite straightforward to use it in this context
jaakkosjust add up the potential differences and equate to zero. then solve for I.
notmikejaakkos is being very aggressive, its making me feel unsafe :(
jaakkosnaa didn't mean to :)
notmikeok :)
DocScrutinizer05jaakkos: the point is: they got no potential differences, this is what they need to calculate
DocScrutinizer05known is total U and total R
DocScrutinizer05so you calculate I and from that the p.d. on each component
DocScrutinizer05*then* you sum up p.d. for any two points like A-B
jaakkosDocScrutinizer05: I can't say I'm following, this is a pretty classic exercise about Kirchoff's voltage law
DocScrutinizer05I=(12V-8V)/(0R5+0R5+5R+10R) = 1/4A
jaakkosbut no doubt there are many ways to approach it
DocScrutinizer05A-B = 8V + 0R5*0.25A + 5R*0.25A
DocScrutinizer05I'm not awake, I may be wrong
DocScrutinizer05= 12V - (0R5 + 10R)*0.25A
Sculptorand another piece of the puzzle falls into place
Shawn186hes gone :(
Sculptorit's 5am in romania
Shawn186well I finished the voltage upconverter, it now boosts 3v to 30V
notmikeRomania women are so beautiful. I wish I was Roma :(
Shawn186why is it outputting 30v instead of 6v?
SculptorRoma is something else
SculptorRomanians aren't Romas
notmikesome of them are
SculptorRomas are Gypsies
DocScrutinizer05Shawn186: because some of your circuit isn't correctly dimensioned
Sculptora nation without a country
Cosmonauthi is this the right place to ask about low level network type questions like, for example the throughput of slotted ALOHA
notmikego away
Cosmonautwhat's your problem
notmikenow go away
DocScrutinizer05Shawn186: the output voltage is defined by the volzage divider (2 resistros) on feedback input of chip
Cosmonautthe hell?
bongofuryhey, greenville in the haus
Cosmonautnotmike: pray tell where should i go away to
DocScrutinizer05Cosmonaut: ignore notmike
bongofurymy band played a show there in the 90s
Cosmonautoh okay
bongofuryit was like, a college hot dog "restaurant"
CosmonautDocScrutinizer05: if thats not a question applicable to this channel, do you have any suggestions?
Shawn186okay, 2 resistors are R1=1.2k R2=4.7k (5.99V)
DocScrutinizer05Cosmonaut: sorry I don't know ALOHA
Shawn186scratch that (5.99V)
Shawn186I guess it should be R1=2.4k R2=9.1k (5.99V)
Cosmonautthat wasn't actually my question it's just an attempt at a more concise way to describe the topic area
Shawn186dunno why _abc_ wanted me to change those values
Cosmonauti'm trying to figure out how to relate the constellation points a system uses to the bit rate of the channel given some time between symbol transmissions
DocScrutinizer05both are fine, first one is standard values
DocScrutinizer05Shawn186: ^^^
Shawn186could the changed values be causing the voltage upscale?
Shawn186it was heating up my 220uF 16V cap
DocScrutinizer05I bet
Shawn186then what is causing it to be 30V?
Shawn186thats way over the top
kmciaman, VNAs are expen$$$ive
DocScrutinizer05those resistors are _not_ the values you think they are
kmciayou can get a used keysight VNA or a new car
DocScrutinizer05or the calculator is wrong (I *really* doubt that)
DocScrutinizer05or your circuit is massively out of spec in other aspects
Shawn186well instead of 330uF cap I have a 220uF cap, that _abc_ said it was okay to change
DocScrutinizer05this is ok
Shawn186Cr instead of 1500pF its 1000pF
DocScrutinizer05"massively out of spec" might mean your FB pin on chip is shorted to GND for example. Or the resistor to Vout (4k7?) is not really connected to Vout, or whatever
DocScrutinizer05or you swapped the 1k2 and the 4k7
Shawn1862 is the only other pin besides 4 that is shorted to ground
DocScrutinizer05I don't have the datasheet/calculator in front of me
DocScrutinizer05something in your circuit most likely is not correct
DocScrutinizer05test the voltage from feedback input to GND
Shawn186is IDE floppy cable wire thick enough for passing 648mA?
DocScrutinizer05hmm yes
Shawn186found the problem
Shawn186I have the 4k7 resistor shorting to ground on the wrong side of 2k2
DocScrutinizer051k2 you meant?
Shawn186DocScrutinizer05, yes
Shawn186swapped now I have 6.15 volts
notmikedo u guys think im fat :/
DocScrutinizer05 R2=4k7, R1=1k2
DocScrutinizer05Shawn186: hooray
Quatermassnotmike: put the fork down and try asking your psychiatrist not in ##electronics
jsoftSo, Can someone please do my work for me? Thanks.
Shawn186and the remote is running off of the 6V :D
DocScrutinizer05hooray again
jsoftWhat's hooray now?
DocScrutinizer05prolly a brit'ism?
jsoftno what are you hooraying about
DocScrutinizer05about Shawn186 finally made that damn boost converter
jsoftShawn186, a custom discrete jobbie?
goldstarcan someone recommend a good circuit simulator?
Shawn186yes jsoft
jsoftShawn186, whad ya use?
jsoftGot a circus diagram?
jaakkosgoldstar: falstadt (online) is very nice for something quick and simple
DocScrutinizer05jsoft: ^^^
jsoftThat's not discrete
goldstarjaakkos: thanks
DocScrutinizer05more "discrete" than buying a module
DocScrutinizer05jsoft: and I suspect Shawn186 even made own inductor
jsoftI suppose I did not make a discrete one either. I used an and gate and a comparator and an oscillator of some sort
jsoftgoldstar, whatchya simulating?
goldstarjsoft: some ac circuitry
Shawn186DocScrutinizer05, I modified the one that came with the chip from a 12v car charger
goldstarjsoft: nothing special
jsoftgoldstar, 3 phase or something?
goldstarjsoft: single
jsoftAhh ok. Is it that earth return thingy ?
Shawn186and my remote is now powered by my samsung galaxy precedent's battery
Shawn186only battery with good storage that would fit
jsoftgoldstar, be sure to share it with us :)
jsoftOooh look at Shawn186 busy being productive
goldstarjsoft: but am looking for something elaborate so I can do more tinkering with other circuits long term
jsoftgoldstar, LTSpice is probably your next best bet
goldstarjsoft: thanks
jsoftgoldstar, but really, don't think you can design a semi complex circus in a simulator
goldstarjsoft: really?
Shawn186joft for 2 days straight
HoolooBOOsimulating a circus would be quite a feat
jsoftHoolooBOO, :)
goldstarjsoft: that sucks
jsoftgoldstar, don't get me wrong, I am no expert in them, but they seem to not entirely reflect reality
DocScrutinizer05ACTION thinks simulatting a circus is what ##electronics is all about ;-D
jsoftgoldstar, good for 'hmmm I wonder if this idea for a sub circuit might work'
jsoftgoldstar, or perhaps 'I wonder how this specific part will perform under conditions X and Y'
jsoftBut then you always need to see if its full of shit or not
goldstarjsoft: hmm, I was hoping they'd be more advanced than that
DocScrutinizer05the sim always needs more kicking stuff into shape than the circuit diagram itself
DocScrutinizer05the problem is in the models you use
jsoftgoldstar, I am not entirely sure if people even know wtf electromagnetism really is, I cant blame simulators for not being accurate to the real world all the time
DocScrutinizer05all the models usually are "ideal components"
jsoftgoldstar, your falstad thingy mentioned earlier will certainly help in making circuits. Just not weird ass circuits
jsoftgoldstar, like if you want to see a led blink, or the current in branch X, or whatever, that should be fine.
DocScrutinizer05yeah, I simulated a simple circuit with a coil and 2 transistors, and flastad went into overrun since the ESR of coil was 0
goldstarjsoft: guess I'll need to pull out the breadboard then eh
jsoftHow does ESR work again?
jsoftgoldstar, yeah as always
DocScrutinizer05jsoft: serious question? then please rephrase
jsoftDocScrutinizer05, how is it calculated. Is it impedance minus reactance or something?
DocScrutinizer05DC impedance
jsoftHow do they do that with caps?
DocScrutinizer05aka resistance
jsoftYeah how is it actually measured
DocScrutinizer05well for caps it's impedance at infinite frequency
jsoftAs in shove a cap in series and watch the current?
jsoftDocScrutinizer05, but how does a LCR meter do it
DocScrutinizer05you calculate true cap capacity from e.g. discharging it pseudo-DC, then you compare impedance at a given frequency and subtract the calculated impedance from that
jsoftHmm ok
DocScrutinizer05the rest is ohms ;-)
jsoftYou're an ohm
Shawn186does the inductor affect current?
jsoftShawn186, yerp
jsoftShawn186, changes in current
jsoftAnd also has resistance
DocScrutinizer05jsoft: I assume Shawn186 is asking about
Shawn186so if the requirement was 78uH, and I took it down to 70uH, is it going to forward less current?
DocScrutinizer05a bit, yes
jsoftShawn186, Prolly, yaeh
DocScrutinizer05you could lower Ct
jsoftUnless the switching frequency changed
DocScrutinizer05which changes freq
jsoftAhh ok
Shawn186yours is different DocScrutinizer05
Shawn186thats what I worked off of
Shawn186so thats why I am having trouble :(
Shawn186its not getting all the current it needs at 6V
DocScrutinizer05make f 50kHz
Shawn186the remote is still dimm
DocScrutinizer05reduce size of Ct capacitor a bit
DocScrutinizer05this increases freq and thus will need less uH of L
jsoftI think I like inductors more than capacitors if I had to choose.
DocScrutinizer05you see "Lmin"? that means "your coil must have *at least* that much inductance"
DocScrutinizer05Shawn186: no need to change L when it has moderately more than what's specified in there
DocScrutinizer05Shawn186: easiest fix: increase frequency
Shawn186increase frequency?
Shawn186not the inductor?
DocScrutinizer05Shawn186: higher frequency will result in slightly increased loss (from eddy currents) in the inductor, but the size of inductor needed also reduces with increasing frequency
Shawn186I need to re-wrap the inductor
Shawn186it runs very dim
DocScrutinizer05no, don't! change Ct
DocScrutinizer05Shawn186: your pastebin is ambiguous, the circuit diagram doesn't match the specs in text box
Shawn186the remote flickers when I try to turn up the brightness of the remot
Shawn186DocScrutinizer05, thats because its the same picture, the specs it gives you, you have to fill in the blanks
DocScrutinizer05sorry, typo in ripple:
DocScrutinizer05just make Ct=470pF (or near to that) and you're fine. No changing if L needed
Shawn186well I should have left it at 180
DocScrutinizer05what you did (iirc) was Ct=1500pF instead the recommended 1000pF, right?
Quatermassflyback: I'm never mailing you another pidgeon you sicko! :P
QuatermassACTION runs
DocScrutinizer05Ct determines f
Shawn186whats f?
DocScrutinizer05Shawn186: maje Ct 470p
Shawn186let me see if I can find it
DocScrutinizer05Shawn186: f is frequency
Shawn186is that why the kameleon remote's EL inverter is dimming?
DocScrutinizer05your L is too small for f=25kHz
DocScrutinizer05and the needed current
DocScrutinizer05so instead of changing L, rather change f
Shawn186so you want me to reduce from 1nF to 470pF?
DocScrutinizer05this results in f going from 25kHz to 50kHz
Shawn186I found a 472 poly-film cap
Shawn186thats 4700pF
Shawn186I can't find a 470 labeled one
DocScrutinizer05then use two 1000pF in series
Shawn186why 2?
DocScrutinizer05because that results in half the capacitance
DocScrutinizer05iow 500pF
Shawn186my 2 102 labeled poly-film caps I have are not balanced
DocScrutinizer05doesn't matter
DocScrutinizer05just connect them in series, *not* parallel
Shawn186oen reads 978pF while the other, good one reads 1013pF
Shawn186oh not parallel?
DocScrutinizer05that's absolutely fine
Shawn186I also have 152, which is 1500pF
Shawn186I know
DocScrutinizer05connect those two C in series and probe them for finding a ~500pF :-)
Shawn186just did
Shawn186it wont be a perfect 500pF though
DocScrutinizer05doesn't matter
DocScrutinizer05nothing in electronics ever is perfect
Shawn186okay, its still dimm
Shawn186in a few places of the EL
DocScrutinizer05did you prove the 6V voltage while operating the remote so it gets dim?
DocScrutinizer05probe, even
DocScrutinizer05which voltage?
DocScrutinizer05and did the "dim issue" improve from your modification of Ct?
Shawn186strange, when I put the multimeter acrossed the remote's power wires I added, my multimeter is not showing anything
Shawn186DocScrutinizer05, the backlight is a little brighter
Shawn186half the buttons are dimmer than the rest though
DocScrutinizer05that sounds strange
Shawn186and theres still a flicker when I press any of the buttons
Shawn186at least the hardware in the remote is getting its native voltage
DocScrutinizer05add more capacitors to the 6V buffer
Shawn186oh, when I was wrapping the inductor, I noticed that my reduction of the wire is on the edge of 160uH and 170uH
Shawn186DocScrutinizer05, could my 220uF cap be too small than the recommended 330uF?
Shawn186might that be affecting it?
Shawn186should I increase to 470?
DocScrutinizer05and you never can go too high capacitance there
DocScrutinizer05yes, at least, or even to 1000
Shawn186is 1000 safe?
DocScrutinizer05and your inductance series resistance is also very important
DocScrutinizer05alas you hardly can change that
DocScrutinizer05yes, 1000 is "safe" there
Shawn186my goofing on the inductor, I may have to rewrap it
Shawn186after switching caps
Shawn186ooh hope that this cap can fit
DocScrutinizer05Shawn186: make sure your inductor will have sufficiently low DC resistance to draw more than twice the output current you need
DocScrutinizer05Shawn186: so sufficiently thick wire needed (though also more winds make a longer wire with higher DC resistance)
Shawn186I need to find wire to rewrap it with
DocScrutinizer05either sufficiently thick wire or you use multiple parallel wires
jsoftAnyone else prefer driving diesel vehicles ?
mrdata_not i
gurkianyone else like steaks?
jsoftyeah fucking oats
mrdata_mm... steak
mrdata_jsoft, are you trying to widen your carbon footprint?
jsoftI really don't give a shit about my carbon footprint
Quatermassgurki is trying to widen their girth
gurkiQuatermass: :D
Shawn1861000 or 1800 uF caps are too big to fit in the remote housing
jsoft1000uF ?
jsoftwtf are you up to
QuatermassI remember over-charging those outside in high school..we'd grab one then go and splat it
lungarowho smokes cigars for breakfast?
Shawn186I have a 10v 1000uF cap,that will fit
Shawn186heyy DocScrutinizer05
Shawn186adding a 10V 1000uF cap actually helps the current
DocScrutinizer05better inductor would reduce the need for fat buffer capacitor
password8is the inductor saturating?
DocScrutinizer05password8: good question
DocScrutinizer05password8: "selfmade", from scrap
password8its not very easy to have a high saturation current on a selfmade inductor
password8especially if you are not paying attention to it
DocScrutinizer05increasing frequency and reducing windings count / inductance should help
DocScrutinizer05also reducing winding count helps lower ESR and thus allowing needed current
Casperbut then it get harder to drive it
DocScrutinizer05chip is taking care of driving ;-)
DocScrutinizer05we already changed that to ct=470pF, f=50kHz. L allegedly 70uH
Casper50k and 70µ ? seems... wrong
DocScrutinizer05the L *is* 70uH
DocScrutinizer05which is definitely wrong for 25kHz
DocScrutinizer05so we changed that to 50kHz
Caspercheck the math, I beleive 70µF and 50kHz is very wrong
Caspererr 70µH
DocScrutinizer05for 25kHz the tools says "Lmin=78uH"
DocScrutinizer05what's very wrong with 70uH @ 50kHz?
Casper70 seems too high for the design I saw
DocScrutinizer05Lmin=39 uH
DocScrutinizer05note the *min* in there
Casperstill seems wrong to me
DocScrutinizer05no issue with too high inductance, except BOM cost, volume, ESR, whatnot
Casperand the regulation may suffer<
DocScrutinizer05well, not really
Casperdue to it having a longer reaction time to load change
DocScrutinizer05unless you go several magnitudes too high
password8well thats not regulations , thats transients
Caspersame in my book
DocScrutinizer0539uH is to match timing to frequency, with a twice as high L you get a "regulation timing" of f/2
DocScrutinizer05IOW the coil will build up a DC component in current, resp only drop to Imax/2 during switch=off
Casperif the math is fine, then it is
DocScrutinizer05that's not really math, rather a drastically simplified model
DocScrutinizer05anyway the only determining factors in timing are the time the switch is on and how much current the inductor will build up during that period. Must not exceed the switch capabilities, but too high L will not cause immediate negative effects
DocScrutinizer05also you don't want to saturate the L core
DocScrutinizer05obviously for saturation, more windings are negative
DocScrutinizer05for current in whole circuit, inductance of L is not really relevant
DocScrutinizer05just lower inductance results in higher "ripple" aka AC component in inductor and switch
DocScrutinizer05that's why you have L*min*
DocScrutinizer05saturating the core is devastating though, as is too low inductance and resulting from that, too fast increase of curent through switch during switch-on
ketas"mainly used for 5vusb electric heater. thermostat can also be used for 7.4v electric clothing .12v belt. huge neck. hu xi. such as electric products"
ketashuge neck!
DocScrutinizer05some booster chips sense current and open switch when a certain threshold is reached
password8how much does a resistors resistance resit temperature change?
password8like normal of the shelf metal film
DocScrutinizer05err, delta-r vs delta-temp? not much, but check datasheet
password8i've not seen datasheets for cheap resistors
password8vishay resistors , sure
password8others , nope
DocScrutinizer05umm, seems dk has a DS for each of their series
Casper50-100ppm/K it seems
Casperlast sentence of construction
Casperwhich give what... 0.05-0.1%/°C ?
DocScrutinizer051000 parts per million != 1%
DocScrutinizer05100ppm = 0.01%
DocScrutinizer05unless my math sucks
password8 100ppm = 0.01% <- unless my math suck in exactly the same way this is correct :P
Casper0.01% 100 ppm as per google
Casperso it's even better than what I tought at 2am
password8which is too horrible for my likeling
Caspertoo horible???
Casperfor a 5% resistor?
password81% would have been much better
password8for my situation
DocScrutinizer05assuming a realisting temperature range of 100°C yiu get 1% of change
DocScrutinizer05on 100ppm/K
DocScrutinizer05(me prolly should use Kelvin instead Celsius for ranges)
DocScrutinizer05-50°C to +150°C you get 2%
DocScrutinizer05stll fine for a 5% R
DocScrutinizer05for a 1% R you want to find better temp coefficient when you need such wide temp range
DocScrutinizer05unless you have two 1% R (of same series) in a divider, in which case the temp coefficients will compensate each other
CasperDocScrutinizer05: depend on the temperature of each due to power dissipation, but then maybe just put them physically in contact with a bit of glue? :D
DocScrutinizer05hmm, I don't think you want to drive high precision dividers with a current high enough to heat the resistors significantly
winsoffFlea86, are you still collecting for fleaPGA or whatever
password8fwiw copper has a 0.4% temp coefficient
DocScrutinizer05then it's good they don't use copper wire to make their resistors ;-)
password8well its not bad
password8also I'm not making resistors
password8zeners are more fun
password8you get to choose the temperature coeeficient
azonenbergSo guys, this is more of an electrical question than electronics bug...
azonenberghas anyone here ever replaced a US mains breaker panel?
azonenbergi assume you can just ask the utility to disconnect power to the house then work on the dead panel?
HoolooBOOI believe that's the correct way
password8well there should be an isolation switch
HoolooBOOthough I think you're supposed to have a real electrician do it
password8well here there is
HoolooBOOI think at my parents place there was a bigger main breaker above the smaller subcircuits
HoolooBOOnot sure
password8a breaker as soon as municipal lines enter your yard , then that breaker feeds your db panel
azonenbergHoolooBOO: this is a whole panel replacement
azonenbergenclosure and all
azonenbergI'm just curious about the process
password8well as long as you dont plan on doing it
HoolooBOOyeah, I believe the general process is to call the utility to have them shut it off
Casperazonenberg: I don't know where you live, but here in Quebec, it is mandatory to have the panel replaced by a licenced electrician, which will first make the power compagny cut the power, then replace, then will have the power compagny inspect the panel before powering it back on
password8also i dont know USA power regulations
azonenbergtl;dr i'm in the process of buying a house that has a federal pacific breaker panel, i'm aware of the issue and have the option to leave the contract withi nthe next 10 days
azonenbergI'm going to try and make the seller fix it before we close
password8here the garage also often feeds house
azonenbergBut if they won't, i like the house enough to do the repair and keep it
password8so there is 2 breakers you can turn the house off at
azonenbergassuming nothing else is catastrophically wrong
azonenbergCasper: I dont know if breaker panels are any different
HoolooBOOthat's a reasonable process
azonenbergbut in WA, you can do most electrical work yourself, as the homeowner
Casperazonenberg: if you replace the panel, make sure to install a big one, like a 60 breakers one... they don't cost much more (few buck) than a 40 breakers one, but you will love the freedom..
azonenbergas long as you get a building permit and have it inspected before it's energized
azonenbergCasper: The panel is getting replaced or i'm not buying
DocScrutinizer05azonenberg: here (Germany) you have a master fuse box separate from the normal user accessable breaker panel
azonenbergThe only question is if they're doing it before we close, or if i do it after
azonenbergobviously i want them to pay for it :p
password8too how low do zener diodes go?
azonenbergEven if i have to up my purchase price by the cost of the work
azonenbergi want it done
azonenbergCasper: and you bet i am
azonenbergeither way, i'm also putting in a 30A transfer switch so i can move a few critical circuits onto my generator
CasperDocScrutinizer05: here in quebec, canada, it used to be like that, but now it's all in one panel, take way less space! And also safer (less connection and failing points)
azonenbergi'm done with running extension cords through the doggy door
azonenbergwhen the power goes out
DocScrutinizer05azonenberg: I guess every country has similar reqzuirements to have a single point of "take over" from pwovider domain to private domain
azonenbergDocScrutinizer05: Yeah in the US that's normally at the meter
azonenbergMany meters have a remote disconnect feature but i wouldnt trust that for safety purposes
Casperazonenberg: might want to also consider a panel wide surge protector? dunnot how good they are, but they ain't really expensive
azonenbergi'd want something that can be locked/tagged out
azonenbergCasper: everything i care about is behind an online UPS
CasperDocScrutinizer05: how big is your panel there?
DocScrutinizer05normal hager 5 rows
Casperazonenberg: I'm actually considering to buy one... which brand do you suggest?
CasperDocScrutinizer05: I mean, voltage/current
azonenbergCasper: generator, transfer switch, what?
azonenbergor ups?
azonenbergmy current UPS is a cyberpower, i've had good experiences with it but the battery isnt big enough to run my stuff for very long
azonenbergthat's just the physics of how many Wh of SLAs you can cram in 2U though
Casperazonenberg: ups
azonenbergYou can get external add-on batteries to extend the run time
DocScrutinizer05Casper: aah, 230*3, up to usually 3*63A
DocScrutinizer05maybe some have 125A
CasperDocScrutinizer05: not too bad, here it's 120/240@200A usually, this panel is only a 150A one... and only 30 breakers... all full of course...
DocScrutinizer05I got 3*35 here
azonenbergCasper: yeah i have a cyberpower 2U online UPS
azonenbergMy plan is, after the move is complete
azonenbergto buy a second one
Casperdo you trust tripplite?
azonenbergNo experience w/ them
azonenbergmy cyberpower has saved my bacon through a lot of outages and storms
azonenbergAnyway my plan is to put them both on a rack in the garage
DocScrutinizer05((panel wide surge protector)) *highly* recommended
azonenbergAnd then wire them back to inlets in the wall feeding 15A branch circuits
CasperI have an apc one here, but it's old... and it start to have a small issue: the fan controller crash and fail to turn the fan off...
azonenbergI have to look into the specifics of code for doing this
azonenbergBut basically the desired setup is (mains, generator) -> transfer switch -> UPS -> possible secondary breaker -> in-wall circuit
CasperDocScrutinizer05: for the surge protector, I keep reading mixed review about their usefullness, they may actually do absolutelly nothing...
azonenbergAn online UPS does full-on resynthesis of your power
Casperazonenberg: just get a few outback inverter/charger :D
azonenbergit basically turns mains into DC then feed an inverter
azonenbergand has a mux to drive the DC rail from the batteries
Casperyup with like 85% efficiency
azonenbergSo it's pretty inherently surgeproof
azonenbergAnd sure, you waste some power but that's the price you pay for super clean, stable power
azonenbergWhen i'm plugging a >$5K LeCroy DSO into that outlet, though
azonenbergi want to make sure it wont die if we get bad weather :p
DocScrutinizer05yeah, but you don't want to run your 25kW water heater from such UPS ;-)
azonenbergOf course not
DocScrutinizer05I planned to run my whole lab from UPS like that
CasperDocScrutinizer05: actually, that's almost the heater we have here...
azonenbergThe house has gas fired forced air heating + central air
azonenbergIdeally, i want to run the blower motor on the furnace from the generator (don't need UPS) to preserve heating capability if I lose power
azonenbergthe AC of course needs a lot more power and my 4 kW gen cant do that
azonenbergSo i'd put that on mains only
azonenbergI just dont know if this particular furnace/AC has two inputs
azonenbergi.e. is it possible to drive the blower w/o also energizing the compressor?
Casperusually they have breakers on it
azonenberganyway thats a longer term issue
azonenbergPriority #1 is removing the gross fire hazard
DocScrutinizer05err furnace with integrated A/C?
azonenbergthen priority #2 is to wire up the UPS and generator stuff
azonenbergDocScrutinizer05: there's a central HVAC unit, i havent looked super closely as to how many lines feed it
azonenbergThe house has a faint odor of cigarette smoke as well as being old enouhg to potentially have lead paint, although the seller has no specific knowledge of such
azonenbergMy plan is to gut the house down to bare studs, rip out all of the drywall
DocScrutinizer05our heating is gas with a 100W for fans and water pump
azonenbergRun multimode fiber and CAT5 from every room to the garage
azonenbergI found a good price on for a cable with eight strands of OM4 fiber going out to eight simplex LC connectors
DocScrutinizer05landlord already insisted on a mains plug for that thing to hook it up to a UPS in case mains blackout for long time
azonenbergSo i could run four full-duplex 10gbit ethernet links over it
azonenbergSo my plan is to, as long as the walls are open
azonenbergrun four cat5e (for 1000base-TX) and one 8x multimode fiber cable
azonenbergfrom every room out to a termination point in the garage near where my server rack is going to go
azonenbergThen have short patch cables from there out to the rack
azonenbergThat way, when i put the new sheetrock up
azonenbergI'll have dark fiber in the walls for all my future needs
azonenbergEven though my current cisco gear can only do 1gbps
DocScrutinizer05landlord also pondered to get a inverter generator with electric starter and battery support for a few seconds til genmerator starts
azonenbergMy plan is to have the critical circuits UPS'd with several hours of battery backup
azonenbergEventual goal is ~16U of batteries sufficient to run my computers, wifi AP, cable modem, etc through 8 hours
azonenbergwith no mains or generator
azonenbergThis will allow me to coast through a nighttime power outage without waking the neighbors up with my lawnmower^h^h^h^h^h^hgenerator
DocScrutinizer05azonenberg: I strongly recommend running pipes instead of cat5/whatever cables
azonenbergthen start it up in the morning
azonenbergDocScrutinizer05: you mean conduit?
azonenbergThe wiring in the house will be four cat5 + 1 multi-fiber cable to each room
azonenbergAs soon as it enters the garage, though, everything will be overhead datacenter-style cable trays
azonenbergI wanted to get those for the house but the wife would kill me :p
DocScrutinizer0525 or 30mm diameter flexible plastic tubes
azonenbergoh that stuff
azonenbergi was thinking hard conduit
jammioffice-style alu extrusion stuff for wiring conduits on walls would be neat, but yeah; not wife-proof
DocScrutinizer05that stuff is moderately cheap and very generic
azonenbergYeah i've seen it
azonenbergthey're running fiber at work in that
azonenbergthe orange stuff
DocScrutinizer05and no issue running a cat6 or a power cable when you need one
azonenbergBut in my house i think i'd prefer hard conduit
azonenbergAs long as the walls are open, if i need to redo the mains cabling
azonenbergthat's the perfect time
azonenbergThe garage wiring is going to get nuked entirely, then I'll be running multiple 20A circuits to the various workbenches
DocScrutinizer05sure. also perfect time to throw in an empty plastic "hose" in parallel
password8i need nickel wire :D
azonenbergIn the garage, every work area will have 1-2 UPS'd outlets, 2-4 non-UPS'd outlets (possibly generator backed TBD), then 2-4 cat5e and multimode fiber drops
azonenbergdetails TBD
azonenbergCable trays overhead dropping into hard conduit on the walls then to wall-mounted junction boxes
zigggggyACTION rings azonenberg's doorbell incessantly
azonenbergoh, then hot/cold water, nitrogen, suction, and sewer going to each bench
azonenbergThere will be at least one shop sink, but i'm going to run capped-off pipe in a U shape around the whole work area
azonenbergwith T fittings then short capped stubs
zigggggyACTION keeps ringing azonenberg's doorbell
azonenbergSo i can easily add new fixtures as needed
azonenbergACTION waits for zigggggy to notice the bowl of candy with a "grab a handful" sign next to it
zigggggyACTION empties entire bowl into his bag
azonenbergseriously we had like six trick-or-treaters all day
azonenbergnot six groups
azonenbergsix kids
zigggggydid you at least buy good candy?
DocScrutinizer05azonenberg: sorry for the blurr
Hooloovo0I had zero
azonenbergi mean it was m&ms and milky ways and twixes and stuff like that - so not the super cheap stuff
zigggggyACTION rings Hooloovo0's doorbell incessantly
azonenbergbut also not fine Swiss truffles
Hooloovo0but I live in a college kid apartment
azonenbergi save those for myself :p
Hooloovo0no doorbell
zigggggyACTION bangs on door
azonenbergDocScrutinizer05: whats this?
Hooloovo0sorry, don't have any!
password8azonenberg: why do all this?
azonenbergACTION drools
zigggggyazonenberg you actually remembered and planned to buy candy for trick or treaters
Hooloovo0want uh booze? wait that's illegal for me to even have, how about... bagels?
DocScrutinizer05an open connection can and a plastic "hose" nearby, coming out of the wall
azonenberg^ my dream garage
password8if i ever get a garage of my own , I'm goign to install air and vacuum lines everywhere
password8i almost never see people install vacuum lines
cheapieazonenberg: As far as the whole "only 6 kids" thing goes, I'm thinking that maybe people are *finally* realizing that wandering around to unfamiliar people's houses, asking them for candy, and eating whatever they give you /might not/ be the safest thing in the world.
zigggggycheapie azonenberg bought expensive candy
zigggggyazonenberg cheapie only buys cheap candy
password8and all you really need is a few ballvalves and 2" pipe
azonenbergcheapie: and yet there's never actually been a case of anyone poisoning a trick-or-treater that i know of
Hooloovo0idk, it seems pretty safe to me
Hooloovo0as long as they cross the street proper
azonenbergthe only case i know of poisoned halloween candy was a parent offing their own kid with cyanide in a pixie stick
azonenbergand trying to blame it on strangers
cheapieThat and it seems like a lot of work for comparatively little reward.
azonenbergpassword8: I'm going to put suction, hot/cold water, sewer, and nitrogen
azonenbergNot compressed air
DocScrutinizer05azonenberg: dirt cheap
azonenbergi'm going to be nitrogen purging my reflow oven
zigggggyazonenberg well as long as you've never heard of it....
azonenbergand once i have the tank its easy to plumb it out elsewhere
Hooloovo0I question why you need sewer lines at every workstation
DocScrutinizer05goes into the wall
azonenbergand the volume of dust-off i use is small enough that i doubt N2 would be cost prohibitive
zigggggyACTION rings cheapie's doorbell incessantly
cheapieHooloovo0: Because the bathroom is too far away? Dunno :P
azonenbergHooloovo0: In case that bench area turns into a sink
zigggggygimme candy cheapie!
password8suction from shop vac?
azonenbergpassword8: yeah basically
Hooloovo0I... guess
azonenbergHooloovo0: its the same idea as dark fiber
azonenbergLay the infrastructure everywhere, then activate as needed
azonenbergthis way i dont have to open walls or move benches etc to run plumbing
cheapieACTION tosses some dollar-store "chocolate" at zigggggy
azonenbergit's all there, i just have to cut the cap off and put a sink in
Hooloovo0I guess I was assuming the garage wouldn't have finished walls so it would be easier
zigggggyazonenberg i want brand name candy!
zigggggycheapie i want brand name candy!
azonenbergHooloovo0: The garage will be sheetrocked, then the pipes will be mounted on the exterior of the sheetrock in plain view
cheapieACTION hands zigggggy some brightly-colored capacitors?
azonenberghot/cold water will have periodically spaced hose barbs and valves so you can hook up coolant loops etc or just draw water into a container
zigggggyi cant think of a worse place for a lab than a garage
zigggggyno heat, no AC
zigggggyno temp control
Hooloovo0I feel like it'd be easier to install pipes as needed then, not sure though
zigggggypoor insulation
cheapie"See? It's brand-name candy! It says "nichicon" right here!" :P
zigggggycheapie! :(
azonenbergLike this
Hooloovo0u got tricked!
zigggggyHooloovo0 cheapie is giving me cheap candy :(
DocScrutinizer05azonenberg: I have a few of those empty plastic hoses running to my rooms in my flat, alas still not as many as I wish I had
Hooloovo0it's better than what I gave you :P
cheapieACTION sneaks into azonenberg's garage and switches the "ACID WASTE" and "FIRE SPRINKLER" pipes around
drazakazonenberg: are you still doing decapping and stuff?
DocScrutinizer05particularly to run cables across doors from left to right, those tubes are missing. I just forgot to specify I want those
azonenbergdrazak: Been away from that due to my current residence, nowehre to do it
azonenbergOne of the TODOs in the new garage is a ductless (carbon filtered) fume hood
azonenbergFor solvent cleans, decapping, etc
drazakhaven't talked to you in hears
azonenbergSee above
azonenbergthis is what i want
azonenbergnicely labeled on the walls :D
DocScrutinizer05azonenberg: I guess that's not what you want in your new house though? just in garage, right?
azonenbergI would put it house-wide if the wife wouldnt kill me for it
azonenbergi love the industrial aesthetic
azonenbergits so much nicer than having stuff hidden behind walls where you cant see or maintain it
DocScrutinizer05higher WAF
azonenbergThe fiber in the house is going in-wall
azonenbergBut probably in conduits
DocScrutinizer05that's what I meant :-D
DocScrutinizer05can't have enough of such hidden conduits
DocScrutinizer05literally left and right of each corner and door, and then some on top
drazakazonenberg: you got married!?
Hooloovo0drop ceilings are good for that too
drazaklast I knew you were at RPI
Hooloovo0you can put junction boxes up
azonenbergdrazak: um, >1 year ago
drazakazonenberg: like I think the last time we talked was 2011 haha
EinPunktguys anyone know if there some tool available to calculate a step down circuit?
EinPunktdcdc with cc
DocScrutinizer05this one maybe?
EinPunktthe second look good
EinPunktlemme check :)
azonenbergEinPunkt: What i normally do is, search SMPS controllers on digikey
CasperEinPunkt: buck regulator? sure, there is, but it also depend on the controller itself and the mode, there is no "use this and it work on all" type of thing
azonenbergFind one that works in the range of current, package size, min/max vin and vout, etc that i want
azonenbergThen read the datasheet
Casperlinear technology have some design tools online
Casperbut mostly for their higher end one
azonenbergEinPunkt: Learn to read a datasheet
azonenbergFeel free to ask here if you have specific questions
EinPunktdatasheet i can read so far
azonenbergWhat range of vin/vout did you want?
EinPunktbut im not so good to calculate circuit
azonenbergand do you want true constant current, or just overcurrent shutdown?
EinPunktvin shold be variable
EinPunktvout too need the cc for led
azonenbergWell yeah but the SMPS will have a min and max
EinPunktso fixed on 0.7a
azonenbergOk, so you actually want a current source, not a voltage source with current limiting
azonenbergThe difference is important :)
EinPunktthats why i have write cc :)
azonenbergJust making sure, a lot of people say CC and mean overcurrent shutdown
EinPunktnah i have mean constant current :)
azonenbergWhat range of power did you have in mind?
CasperEinPunkt: datasheet + excel
azonenberg digikey has 170 PCB-mount LED driver modules
azonenbergIf you filter to in stock and active, you still have 80
azonenbergAnd of those, 32 can put out >= 700 mA
EinPunktthe std led drivers are useless for me
EinPunktwant to make 10led driver on one plate
azonenbergMore application-specific requirements you didn't mention earlier? :)
azonenberg"on one plate"?
EinPunkt1 input -> 10 driver -> 10 output
azonenbergTen separate parallel LEDs?
azonenbergWith independent control, or what?
azonenbergCommon practice for multi LED without independent control is to run them in series and just current limit the entire string
EinPunktnot really
EinPunktthe shold all get pwm in
azonenbergah ok
EinPunktfor dimming
azonenbergWhy PWM?
azonenbergif you're going through the trouble of a constant current source
azonenbergwhy not just reduce the drive current
azonenbergIIRC led output is pretty linear with current
EinPunktbecause the pwm i can controll from uc
azonenbergAnd you don't have programmable current sources?
Caspercurrent control can be done with µC too
Casperalso, there is some addressable leds too, as led or chip or strip
EinPunktnope the power source are a simple 24-36v psu
EinPunktyea i know about the addressable leds stips
EinPunktbut useless for me using for my project 1-3w power leds
EinPunktits more 3w at the moment
Casperok, then what about those addressable led driver chip? Some can do 3W+ directly or with very little external component
EinPunktbut not on the spectrum :P
Caspersome chip can do buck oto
EinPunktusing 400-740nm and 380-840nm
CasperWell, you know the options
Casperme go to bed, for a 4.5 hours 'sleep' before work
Caspersee ya
EinPunktbb and ty :)
jaggzbye Casper
Casperhi jaggz, and bye
azonenbergEinPunkt: what about something like ?
azonenbergThis is analog current control, not PWM
DocScrutinizer05or you use and either do PWM to RON (may or may not work nicely) or add a programmable divider aka digital pot between Rsns and CS
azonenbergOutput current selectable by sense resistor, which you could probably replace with a digipos
Casperalso, if it take an analog voltage as current control, PWM and low pass filter and you get your analog signal
EinPunktwait wait
EinPunktlemme check the datasheet
azonenbergThis one might be better
DocScrutinizer05 also has "PWM dimming"
azonenbergDocScrutinizer05: i linked that above :p
azonenbergThe TI part looks better
DocScrutinizer05yes, I know
DocScrutinizer05yeah, TI looking nicer
EinPunktthe ti look on first view really good
EinPunktand it is for the ranges i need
EinPunktmax 36v in possible, max 1a out yup variable
EinPunktpwm in
EinPunktlemme check the price of it
DocScrutinizer05max 42/65V Vin, for 3414/HV
EinPunktbut i need max 36v only so it is in range
DocScrutinizer05easy analog dimming, also for overtemp throttle
DocScrutinizer05digital dimming by PWM
DocScrutinizer05no nasty Rsense
EinPunktthe board will get a extra overtemp protection for the leds
EinPunktmosfet or similar befor the stepdown
EinPunktif one of the line get overtemp it shutdown the led driver for it
DocScrutinizer05hmm really? why?
EinPunktbut probaly with this ic i dont need it
EinPunktuff im stupit
DocScrutinizer05yes, not needed
EinPunkti can shutdown the leds via the pwm
DocScrutinizer05and via analog temperatire sensor
azonenbergIt may have a separate enable line or something
azonenbergSome PWM can't go 100% on or off
azonenbergBut you should certainly be able to drop it far enough to implement overtemp protection even if it's still running at 0.5% duty cycle or something
DocScrutinizer05or you use a temperature switch instead of all the gear like
DocScrutinizer05the bimetal type thing
EinPunktbut why not the temp sensor via i2c on the uc?
DocScrutinizer05too many points of failure for a protective circuitry
Hooloovo0yeah, what if the uc fails open
Hooloovo0can definitely happen
EinPunktbut rar if you dont do some programming error
EinPunktnormaly the leds shold not get overtemp
EinPunktif the cooler not fail
EinPunkti will use for cooling 3 maybe 4pin blower fan
EinPunktso i get constant a speed signal
EinPunktits at all a not so small project...
DocScrutinizer05I'd probably go for sth like this
password8Qualcomm is an impressive company
EinPunktmultiple fan controll temp hydro automatic humidification
EinPunktbut switch temp are high
EinPunktovertemp will be for me 50°C+
password8DocScrutinizer05: only 1k switching cycles?
password8with that bad , is it for safety?
DocScrutinizer05for a protective deive that's absolutely sufficient. also those are ratings under load
password8DocScrutinizer05: you expect it to reach 80C under no load?
DocScrutinizer05password8: I didn't imply it would switch the supply current, though it could
EinPunktwow the classic...
DocScrutinizer05[2017-11-01 Wed 09:06:58] <DocScrutinizer05> or you use a temperature switch instead of all the gear like
EinPunktgermany is really 3rd world...
DocScrutinizer05is it?
EinPunkthave check if i can order somewhere the lm3414
EinPunkteverthing are import from somewhere
EinPunktonly way
EinPunktor ebay
EinPunktand get from uk
DocScrutinizer05err sorry
EinPunktdigikey shipping from usa or?
DocScrutinizer05some parts are from USA, or from UK, others are from their german office
DocScrutinizer05doesn't matter in the end
nickromanceri have so much energy
password8ACTION shorts nickromancer 
password8whenever someone says the word office , i change it to orrifice
password8and in news Miner to Minor
password8"12 Minors trapped underground"
password8the miner minor works vice versa too
deniska"cloud" to "butt" is a classic substitution
deniskaNew butt technology. Microsoft Azure butt. Etc etc :)
TutatorAngry man shakes fist at butt
Duckle"DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME go to a maker space, or anywhere you don't have to clean up after yourself"
password8but cloud dont sound like butt
Duckleon a video on CNC milling a pumpkin
DuckleI waiting for the day password runs into an overflow error
DuckleI mean, you're only on 8, so it'll be a while
Tutatormaybe password8 has a 8 bit buffer
Duckle8 bit would be 255
Duckleoverflowing back to 0
Duckleor 127 overflowing to -128
Duckledepends on if it's signed or not
Drakoniteor perhaps he is 8 bit floating point. which would wrap at.. I don't know, it's complicated
Ducklefloats don't exist
Hooloovo0maybe fixed point?
DuckleACTION plugs his ears
Ducklenah nah NAH NAH NAH
Tutatorwhat if the 8th bit is reserved for security
Hooloovo0I've seen a system where the eighth bit was reserved for an end-of-string marker
Hooloovo0I'm pretty sure that was just to save space though
Drakonitemidi reserves the MSB to flag command bytes
Hooloovo0from the 80s
password8Duckle: well , you'll have to wait
nickromancerACTION uses sinking point decimals 
password8sinking point?
password8is that a thing?
password8its now
n2Hello, fuckers!
Ducklepiss off ass hat
n2Both urinal and feral references
n2Fucking hell, autocorrect again
Tutatorthere is an equine reference slipped in there too ...... unless you are educated in the US
n2Feral references...
n2Tutator, true.
nickromancertechnically, asses are domestic
n2p0g0, relating to horses
p0g0the ass is not a horse,,,
n2p0g0, equines => the horse family
Tutatorits not a donkey either
n2It's in the horse family
p0g0unless you are referring to "a horse's ass" as a phrase...
Tutatorhorse's arse?
password8what is an 1bit adc?
Tutatorhmmmmm Trump joke?
Ducklea comparator?
n2password8, a comparator
n2Or an RC circuit and a raspberry pi
n2It may also be a bit more fancy
n2Search for delta-sigma...
password8so 'setable' logic level
n2Those are essentially one bit
n2But by oversampling the signal insanely
n2You can reconstruct 16, 24, 32 bits...
n2From the single bit stream
Tutatoropen drain?
Tutatoror in the case of chinese components .... open sewer
password8n2 how would that work?
stvnsup nick
n2password8, by sampling one bit at ~4MH<
n2You can reconstruct, say, 32 bits at 44.1 KHz
n2That is how oversampling works
password8say I'm comparing to 2.5V , and signal is constant at 5V ?
nickromancerstvn: not much, you?
n2Well then it's just a logical one?
password8i would just get 1 forever?
n2But with an 8-bit ADC
password8then how will i get more bits?
stvnnickromancer: replacing capacitors
n2password8, well...
n2In that case you wouldn't really need it?
password8ie distuingish between 5 and 3V?
n2Ahhh but
n2The delta sigma thing is smart
n2It puts in an error term
n2So some of the bits will be zeroes
n2And averaged out over time, the bits will converge so that the reconstructed value is equivalent to 3V
n2That's why you don't use a simple 1-bit ADC
n2But you /can/ use a delta-sigma 1-bit ADC
password8i was just trying to understand 1bit
n2The delta sigma will (essentially) shift its comparator value
n2Based on the error between the output and the input
password8we don't know its sigma delta
n2The other use would be an RC thing
n2A resistive or capacitative sensor
n2How long does it take to get to flipping the bit from 0 to 1
password8its in an fpga
n2i.e. the RC time constant
TutatorACTION thanks christ that wasnt a rectal cavity reference
n2Well, read the datasheet
password8250MHs/s 1bit adc
n2Google is thy friend
password8I've seen that link before
password8did not read it before weither
Tutatoryup tl;dr
Duckletl;dr stuff does stuff
electrobotn2 just linked to
n2That's a 1-bit ADC
n2With a 2-pole reconstruction filter
stvn1 bit on the shit
n2The left plot is the output after the filter
n2The right is in the input
n2It's not perfect, but as you can see, it does work
n2If you sweep the comparator value
n2The only problem is, you'd have to acquire more samples than at 44KHz
password8440Hz being input?
n2It's essentially a PWM ADC
n244kHz being the modulation speed of the comparator
n2You'd have to acquire one bit at maybe 440 kHz for it to work well
n2but, that's only about 55 kilobytes per second. Acheivable :-P
password8makes sense
password8the 1bit is misleading
password8but i see , you add a comparitive waveform
n2That is one way to do it
password8also if you are synced with teh test signal , you should be able to know the level when the crossing occurs
DocScrutinizer05password8: (1bit ADC) think of it like inverted PWM. check "delta-sigma"
n2That is a PWM'ing 1-bit ADC
n2For better results, delta-sigma modulation
password8so 1bit adc is not an adc
password8rather a building block for one
n2It is, though
n2Just depends on the type of ADC :P
Hellehey, I am looking for budget low power wireless networking (can be a protocol different from wifi or bluetooth) development modules
HelleESP32s are fun, but wifi is not exactly actually low power :P
Helle100mA while just in idle listening is a bit too much
n2Helle, say hello to Zigbee
n2There are tons of development boards out there
Drakonitethere are tons of zigbee dev boards just in my parts organizers :P
Hellen2: yes, but budget ?
n2Cheap on eBay
Hellealso note, I can only use Zigbee on 2.4Ghz (not 900Mhz as in the USA)
password8my goal is to make a dual channel 1Msps scope :D
Hellep0g0: ESP32 seems to use the same radio as the ESP8266
p0g0Helle: yes, but it is not a high powered MCU (well, sort of not)
password8DocScrutinizer05: i know what that is
password8my goal is not to make an ADC
stvnthe sketchy primer
Hellen2: I know the ones, but they are a bit expensive for the test application I need them for
n2There aren't that many options
n2Zigbee, BT or WiFi
Hellen2: or NRF24 I guess
n2Didn't even know that existed
stvntrinity bong
DocScrutinizer05password8: well,
p0g0hloy smoke bat dot man!
n2Helle: incidentally
n2I just finished a 2x3cm AM modulator
n2And a 2x1cm AM demodulator
HelleBut I just checked and no, people seem to be claiming different numbers for the 8266
n2Also, your nickname is a common female name in Denmark
password8DocScrutinizer05: so?
p0g0Helle: in terms of a different radio?
TutatorACTION wonders if anyone has made a data network using crystal radios ...... remember the in the olden days xD
DocScrutinizer05password8: nevermind, thought you wanted to know what's a 1bit ADC
password8well its a coparator
password8that has been answered long ago
DocScrutinizer05no, not necessarily, it's probably more than that
password8or less
password8we dont know
password8and I dont want a long discussion
DocScrutinizer05ACTION feeds password8 the tinyurl of wikipedia, to avoid "long discussion"
Hellep0g0: yeah, the ESP32 has 100mA listen, 180mA-240mA transmit, ESP8266, 50mA listen, 120-170mA transmit, although it is unclear if Espressif has measured that in the same ways
password8the 440Hz one?
p0g0Helle: OK, but the protocols and the Tx/Rx EIRPs are about the same? The ODFM and it's auto Tx power should make the two ESPs behave about the same way, tho in my experience the 8266 is a 'loud' Tx radio.
password8designing the analog front end will be more fun
Hellep0g0: interesting
Hellep0g0: also, I can't quite find it, but can you actively reduce transmit power on the ESP's ?
password8I will want to be able to accept fairly large input
p0g0Rx EIRPS isn't a thing, I should refer to the sensistivity of the Rx... my bad language.
Helleie, select a lower power with an API
n2That is not low power
p0g0Helle: yes, you can, iirc. There was a table in the data sheet about Tx power and energy demands. There's some logic that let's you trim that, I think. I have not done it.
Hellep0g0: interesting, will look at it
HelleSorry for all the questions, I've been working on some low power mesh network in a simulation
Helleand was pondering doing a practical demonstration of it on the side
Helle(entirely optional and entirely my own cost)
p0g0The esp8266 has an inbuilt nonstandard mesh too...
p0g0if that helps...
Hellep0g0: yeah, but I need to run my own routing protocol on top of it
Helleiirc the ESP32 for sure can handle it, the ESP8266 possibly
HelleProbably will pick up some NRF24L01's just in case as they are disgustingly cheap and totally run a nearly raw protocol
Helle(and then just hook them up to Atmel AVRs as a host and ignore it's power consumption)
p0g0Helle: that might be good, I don't care for the builtin mesh stuff, tho I think you'll need the esp32 for much routing power. I have not seen any real routing on the 8266 much, just within a single net.
Hellep0g0: yeah, but this is not going to be "real world" just a step up from pure simulation of the routing protocol
Helleso bandwidth, speed of setup, etc, not big factors
p0g0Helle: OK, that all sounds interesting. How many nodes do you want to test?
Helle8-12 nodes would provide a reasonable configuration space
theBearspace is the place, maaaan
p0g0Helle: I paid some attention to the early BATMAN and ROBIN stuff on OpenWRT, mesh logic has come a long way.
Hellep0g0: yeah, but what I am doing is energy aware mesh networking
p0g0theBear: Time, not Space!
Helleresearch that had been dead since 1998 and only last year really revived
p0g0Helle: by that you mean you want to measure the work load in the MCU and radio as the mesh moves data?
Hellep0g0: well, the idea is that sensors with mesh networking make sure they about equally drain their battery while exchanging data
p0g0So the routes are revised to balance the battery loads...
p0g0interesting notion.
Hellep0g0: exactly
Hellebut also they are predictively planned
Hellenow note, a sytem with as low as possible RX current is beneficial for this, while a flexible TX power is also needed
Helleso HW is a challenge we are side stepping and instead just simulating various "this could be real HW" scenarios for now
Hellebut I kind of wanted to see if we could do it on anything real HW already
p0g0Yes, but the Tx power on xmit is governed by the hardware I think. You can limit/cap it, but I think that packet by packet, the ODFM will manage each sub band Tx power.
Hellep0g0: yeah, that is why the other power limiting factor is "if you have N possible relays in the mesh, how do you manage the load over those"
Helleit's one of the options in the simulation already, TX power can't be limited, but there are hidden nodes that need relays per-se
Helle(most algorithms tested presume adjustable TX)
HelleI know the NRF24L01 can half it's transmit power consumption for dropping from 0dBm to -18dBm
p0g0Helle: I am trying to recall if one can harvest the Tx power values for the sub channels. I don't recall if they are easy to get.
theBearp0g0, hmmm, i suppose this means that you have a whole extra dimension of visionary-ness compared to that old miss my-boots-are-for-walkin' joplin lady <grin>
p0g0Helle: yes, I think that sort of control is out there, that you can cap the max Tx power, and you can change protocols, (802.11 a/b/g/n etc) to change how Tx power is managed, to a degree anyway.
p0g0theBear: you can confuse Nancy Sinatra with Janice Joplin?
drazakwhat's up theBear ?
theBearheh, totally 'pop a cap on that tx muthah'
Hellep0g0: yeah, I probably will pick up a bunch of boards (due to lead time) of all 3 types (NRF24L01 and some AVR modules to hook up to it, ESP8266 and ESP32) that I can afford, can't seem to find any affordable Zigbee with documentation
DrakoniteThey should mostly just be breakouts, so the documentation should be more or less the same
p0g0Helle: you might poke around in #linux-wireless, some of the OpenWRT developers are well versed in the fine points of ODFM, and they really know the drivers and how those work.
HelleDrakonite: I am seeing weird Zigbee modules
theBearp0g0, holy smokes ! do i ? it's tricky when they all had their peak AND their long slow decline years before i even existed... gotta rely on learning off the memory of old dudes, and being that those old dudes and myself met in the "entertainment industry" end of town, we ain't exactly at the top of the odds listing when it comes to the reliable-memory competition <grin>
jaggzACTION twitches
jaggzso I went to download a 3d model, available for free, with cc attribute license..
jaggzsomeone comments on the model: "I used it in an oregon state lecture.. "
electrobotjaggz just linked to BA 390: World without marketing - YouTube
theBearhmm, i bet alcatraz would've been completely against things like those *duino boards... cos ya know, no-one ever breaks out at alcatraz <grin>
p0g0theBear: you have my sympathy, not living thru one of the great musical ages is a terrible loss...
jaggzalcatraz isn't that far of a swim from the mainland
theBearp0g0, heh, notice your wording, sad as it is, i suspect i indeed didn't live thru even one, letalone several <wistful grin>
p0g0jaggz: it's the currents....
jaggzthe currents shouldn't stop you?
theBearjaggz, pfft, i'd like to see an arduino swim half that distance and survive <grin>
DocScrutinizer05Helle: for RF power saving you need sleep mode on RX way more than TX power adjust. A pretty precise time base common to all peers helps with that a lot
jaggzjust keep swimming towards shore and you end up somewhere further down "stream" but at the shore in about the same time no?
jaggzoh it's 1.5 miles
p0g0jaggz: tides... those currents will take you out to sea.
DocScrutinizer05Helle: TX power adj becomes more relevant on constant high average bandwidth usage
jaggzI hate being taken out to see while free swimming
HelleDocScrutinizer05: yeah, that is the other aspect, which I can ignore
theBearokey dokey... time to tear myself away from the puter again.. i gots 110% cantonese language google accounts and droid devices and stupid mcaffee ransomwares to go assist dealing with (well, to finish up what my translator/assistant was too tired for the other night :] )
HelleDocScrutinizer05: like, we are interested in routing in a power aware manner, not optimising overall network life time in a real world scenario
p0g0jaggz: cold enough water too. I've swum in the bay and around Santa Cruz a lot,,, I wouldn't try it.
DocScrutinizer05Helle: my home automation stuff here has sleep periods of 3 minutes for some actors
jaggztheBear, talk more
HelleDocScrutinizer05: yeah, that seems like a good idea IRL, but this is academic research, so eeeh, we are allowed to abstract some issues
theBearlater taters ! if yer miss me just make up something un-funny, ideally that BARELY qualifies as a pun or ALMOST qualifies as word-play... it'll be like i was never gonwe
theBearjaggz, ^^^ consider it taken care of
p0g0Helle: one of the issues with sleep is that your radios need to listen all the time.
jaggzp0g0, yeah.. unprotected prisoner swimming there could fail in the frigid waters
Hellep0g0: unless they have a reasonable timebase
Hellep0g0: but that is not relevant for this problem
jaggztheBear, I took some kava kava instead of meditating to lighten my mood
jaggzI felt like using it to treat a light depression
jaggzI took it earlier, and in the "come down" (?) I felt more depressed.. something readily bearable-through..
nickromancerjaggz: does that work?
jaggzbut I decided to try some more at this point
jaggzand this time it's led to a stronger effect, and a ringing in my ears
jaggzI also haven't eaten much today, and it's possible the kava has depleted some nutrient from my brain
jaggzI noticed I understand you (thebear) better, so I thought that was intriguing
jaggzI'm considering if I should take more, or leave it at this.
jaggzmany drugs are a temporary imbalance of one's system.. this is why I prefer meditation
DocScrutinizer05((<p0g0> Helle: one of the issues with sleep is that your radios need to listen all the time.)) no, the point of sleeping is your RX sleeps, not listens
jaggzbecause I can just focus on feeling happy and I'll feel happy
jaggzand I don't feel like crying, extra, right after
DocScrutinizer05p0g0: either you sinc TX-peer1 with RX-peer2_sleep, or your TX has to repeat sending "Attention" for as long until RX peer answers
theBearomfg ! the irony is literally palpable (ok ok, maybe the literally is psycho-sematic, but seriously, wowee !) notice not only written by a company that does almost exactly this if various products they make and really push sneaky-adware styles (fool less technical persons into thinking they are desperately needed or already part of 0the
theBearsystem and thus important), but with the bonus of defective security/verifying-authority cert's attached to the page/article itself ! man, the audacity of these big software guys in recent years, yer olden-times super duper next level confidence grifter types never even got close
DocScrutinizer05sync, even
HelleDocScrutinizer05: yep and wakes up when the rest of the network also wakes up
HelleDocScrutinizer05: which is a relevant property for irl long term power savings, but that is not the subject of this research
p0g0DocScrutinizer05: ... the radios in an asynchronous mesh need to not drop packets, so sleeping thru may be a short trip to network congestion due to resends. Yes you can send beacons until something wakes up, that will make the mesh slower tho.
DocScrutinizer05that's the point
DocScrutinizer05you can handle sleep duration dynamically, and you can sync when you have a reliable time base
Hellebut uuuh, yeah, this is not relevant for this research, you can always layer this on top of energy aware routing
DocScrutinizer05Helle: sorry I answered p0g0's unrelated comment
p0g0well, to lighten everyone's loads, I have to head off... gl all
HelleDocScrutinizer05: but it's a true statement, irl, the biggest power saving is typically, just sleep everything, including networking
Hellelike, I've seen networks that sleep 58 minutes and wake up for 2 minutes on the hour to exchange data
HelleOh, sillier Q even
DocScrutinizer05and there are networks (WLAN) that sleep for 1s and wake up for a maybe 1ms to check if beacon has an attention bit set
DocScrutinizer05while same WLAN chip, when searching for an AP to associate, eats like 500mW
Helleanyone want to suggest "demo sensors" that are dirt cheap, to show in it, temperature and possibly light are the cheapest I could come up with, anyone know other silly cheap sensors ?
DocScrutinizer05compared to some 5mW in normal online mode associated to AP
deniskaHelle: there're tons of quite cheap arduino starter kits
deniskaHelle: which include arduino, breakboard, wires and some sensors/actuators with convinient headers
Helledeniska: uuuuh, you haven't been reading what I am looking at :)
deniskaHelle: maybe I misread your question :)
Helledeniska: yeah, I have like a bunch of basic devkits for stuff, I am looking at doing some experimental mesh networking on a budget
HelleDoes remind me, I should probably pick up a bunch more nano clones
Helle(because they are cheap and cheerful)
n2helle: how basic sensors?
Hellen2: eeh, it needs to show it's alive
n2A thermistor and a photoresistor would do both
n2And be excessively cheap
Hellen2: I know
HelleI was pondering if there was something I wasn't thinking of
deniskabuttons are also pretty cheap and are technically sensors :)
deniskacapacitance sensors are probably the cheapest, they are just a piece of conductor :)
Helledeniska: I mean, this is going to be 12 devices, scattered throughout a building, so eh, temperature and light are probably the two I want
Hellehumidity is a bit expensive
Hellethe rest (rotation, etc) wouldn't change by itself over time
HelleIt was more my mind going over ideas
kscDoes anyone know where I can buy a RF7021SE module, from the UK? I can get it from China, but it takes forever to arrive.
DocScrutinizer05poor man's humidity isn't much more than a pice of paper treated by salt solution and two wires pierced through it
DocScrutinizer05likewise shitty barometer (not temperature compensated), only a bottle with air and a few cm^2 water, and a straw with two wires in it
jaggzthere are cheap humidity sensors, like the dht's (dht11 or 22.. don't recall which)
jaggzwith temp sensing... off by a couple degrees though..
jaggzwith a couple or more degree variation
jaggzI mostly was focused on temp sensing so I didn't evaluate humidity much at all
zap0what does it mean by 'relative' humidity?
DocScrutinizer05what's maybe always nice: mains voltage. Dead simple and cheap, and actually will vary locally and makes the more sense the more sensors you distribute in your building
LeoNerdzap0: "Relative Humidity" is a measure of how much water vapour there is in the air, as compared to the "condensation density" at the current temperature and pressure
LeoNerd0% - there's absolutely none. 100% - there is as much vapour as there can be before it starts to condense into droplets
zap0LeoNerd, ok.. so it's not some term meaning i have to also provide some type of reference for it to operate..
LeoNerdGenerally not; generally people just use and quote RH directly
LeoNerdIf you happen to know temperature and pressure you can convert that into absolute humidity, which is measured in g/m³
zap0this device also does temperature..
LeoNerdYes; oddly, any humidity sensor you find will do
zap0nto sure what device i need for pressure...
LeoNerdThe way they work out what the RH is _requires_ them to know the temperature :)
zap0are there similar cheap devices for doing air pressure?
LeoNerdYah I have one.. one moment
zap0im here for the next 3 hours ;)
LeoNerdMPL3115A2 is one I happen to have used before
zap0ACTION googles for it
LeoNerdI've got quite the collection of various weather/environment sensors
LeoNerdOne of the cool things you can do is, once you've recalculated absolute humidity, you know that's going to be fairly constant over the next few hours at least
LeoNerdSo if you have a good predictor of temperature [say, from many days worth of history], you can predict if it's likely the temperature will drop sufficiently to go below dew point
LeoNerdAt which point you can make a little warning message
Jak_o_ShadowsHmm. For a PCA9685 driving a n-channel mosfet, do I need that resistor to ground/+?
Jak_o_Shadows it drives both ways doesn't it
Jak_o_Shadowsso I don't need that extra resistor
Jak_o_ShadowsBut is it good practice?
LeoNerdI usually like to add the gate pull-{up,down} resistor anyway, yes
LeoNerdOften I'm driving a FET from an MCU, so on reset condition its output will be hiZ, so that resistor is useful
cyber37Hi guy's, I am building a board that has outputs, the outputs are supposed to be 24V or 0V, and should be used to control relays like this one:
cyber37I am going to use BC817-40 NPN transistors for drive it
cyber37I have actually a board running like that and there is no problem. My question is: Is it better to use optocoupler behind the NPN transistor ? Like the relay boards ?
cyber37This is my current schematic:
LeoNerdAn optocopupler before a relay does strike me something of a guilded lilly
Jak_o_ShadowsI feel like opto-couplers would be a good idea on the things up sticking together - but bugger it.
cyber37Is it better to do something like this image or somethink like my old design for drive this kind of relay
Jak_o_ShadowsWant it done by christmas, and etc
cyber37I don't understand your remark "- but bugger it"
cyber37If you had to do this what method should you use ?
jollygood2two compressors from same company have 3dB difference in sound power level (LWA) but 13 dB in sound pressure level (LPA). does this sound like a mistake in spec? or they just measured pressure level at different distance?
cyber37Is it realy necessary to use opto ?
Jak_o_Shadowscyber, talking about my own project. Bugger it -> don't bother with it, stuff it, screw it
Jak_o_ShadowsAlso, if I move the mosfets on the protoboard slightly, I'll be able to retrofit optocouplers later
Voopif something requires x dc voltage would supplying x ac voltage possibly kill it
xihiroin theory, if the trigger slope was not set, the scope would show two waveforms (intermittently), right?
deniskaVoop: it might
password8oh wait , an R/2R netowk works in reverse too!
password8in making a setable attenuator
n2My fucking AM modulator works. :D
n2Amplitude modulation. :D
n2(The modulating wave, i.e. the signal, is a filtered square wave)
password8AM dildo is nice
n2Couple that with a capacitor to an antenna...
n2And it'll work great. :P
n2I gotta find an AM radio
DocScrutinizer05Jak_o_Shadows: the driver chip has high-Z mode on outputs too, you could accidentally run into activating that and making the FET gate float (without discrete pull-R) which is a very bad idea
n2Just to see if shit comes through. :D
n2DocScrutinizer05, aw come on
n2Random electric fields are fun!
DocScrutinizer05cyber37: optocouplers rae totally pointless there
DocScrutinizer05cyber37: your design looks smarter
Voopwhat if the electronic in question is really old and doesnt specify AC or DC
HelleVoop: you go look at the circuit and see what is going on
Voopits not a circuit though its a vaccum tube
Voopit just says 120v on the sheet
Voopwould hooking it directly to mains possibly kill it
DocScrutinizer05Voop: does it have a transformator?
DocScrutinizer05sorry, transformer
DocScrutinizer05that's odd
DocScrutinizer05what is it?
deniskaVoop: 120v sounds like US mains voltage
deniskaso probably AC, but who knows
Voopnot me certainly
DocScrutinizer05well, it does. But when the device has no rectifier then connecting it to AC will likely cause damage
FuchikomaIt's unusual for a vacuum tube to operate off of AC as far as my limited experience goes, unless it's a rectifier tube
DocScrutinizer05DC only causes damage to AC devices if they have a transformer
FuchikomaWhat kind of tube is it?
FuchikomaAnd what is it used in?
DocScrutinizer05what kind of device is it?
DocScrutinizer05ooh wait, it's a single vacuum tube? (sorry missed that)
Voopits a nixie tube from a multimeter or something
Voopi think its DC
DocScrutinizer05that thing needs a lot of external circuitry, you can't connect it to mains
DocScrutinizer05yes, DC
deniskaNixie tube is basically just a fancy lamp, probably can work from both AC and DC? :P
FuchikomaDC absolutely.
Voopthat was my thought deniska
DocScrutinizer05plus series R to limit current
Voopid feel bad if i broke it though
deniskabut I think DC
FuchikomaIt's basically a neaon discharge lamp
Voopahh it needs current limiting?
DocScrutinizer05you need DC to not make the grid shine, and you need a series R
FuchikomaIf you apply a reverse voltage the grid will glow instead of the number
DocScrutinizer05and when you connect it to AC mains, it will likely explode :-P
FuchikomaI don't know that the lamp will explode, but *something* will
ryaoDocScrutinizer05: I connected myself to AC mains yesterday. -_-
ryaoI had an EKG afterward. It said I was fine.
ryaoThe circuit went through my middle finger and thumb, but I had an EKG anyway.
Shawn186is it bad to have a toroidal inductor with enameled wiring sitting against a metal conductive casing?
ryaoI now know what it is like to be Ash Ketchum.
FuchikomaShawn186: Not ideal. The enamel can wear away if there's any vibration.
Voopryao, 210?
DocScrutinizer05Shawn186: you better place some additional isolating sticky tape in between
ryaoVoop: 120V
ryaoI didn't get very good contact though, so the voltage was probably less.
ZeroWalkerguten tag
Tutatorguten aben
DocScrutinizer05ACTION can't count how many times he got zapped
weyland|yutanidà jiā hǎo
ryaoweyland|yutani: 你好
DocScrutinizer05usually 220V though. DC is worse
ZeroWalkerwhat did those character mean?
ZeroWalkerguten nacht?
DuckleDocScrutinizer05: Since when is DC worse?
Ducklemore current runs with AC, defiently hurts more in my experience
DocScrutinizer05Duckle: since westinghouse was a lie
weyland|yutanifor sometime i changes powermeters for a utility company sometimes i couldnt pull a fuse and had to change it under power...if there is a 200A fuse behind your meter you are really seating
ZeroWalkerDC is to be preferred, ask me
DocScrutinizer05ok, my DC experiences also wre >220V
Ducklethat's probably why then :)
weyland|yutaniDocScrutinizer05, PV installations?
FuchikomaWhich is worse depends on a lot of things. DC is less likely to bite you since there's no capacitive coupling effects, but if it does it's much harder to get free
DocScrutinizer05no, vlave stuff
DocScrutinizer05and SPSUs
FuchikomaAlso DC arcs are much more dangerous as they are not self-extinguishing
DocScrutinizer05those damn capacitors that hold charge for hoirs after unplugging from mains
DocScrutinizer05prolly very little capacitve coupling in 50Hz
Tutatorhehe ..... we used to charge little electrolytic caps on a 9v cell and throw the charged cap at class mates in schoole
FuchikomaThere's enough
DuckleTutator: lol
weyland|yutaniFuchikoma, i think a year ago i read something in a electrical engineering magazine about the idea to have DC power in office buildings because most electrnics run from it...main problem apart from different voltages stuff needs is how to switch it because if arcing issues
DuckleTutator: Why? Just to scare them?
Tutatorget a little zap ..... funny when your arent ready for it
DocScrutinizer05weyland|yutani: sounds about right
DuckleTutator: uuh. how would they feel 9v?
Fuchikomaweyland|yutani: It's also horribly inefficient to transmit DC longer distances at the voltages you would typically use it at
Duckledid you throw em on their tounge? :P
DocScrutinizer05you don't get any zap from 9V
weyland|yutaniFuchikoma, also that
FuchikomaYou'd need converters at each appliance or huge busbars to keep the losses low
FuchikomaOr both
archivist10kv DC small wire!
DuckleIIRC we run 400kV DC between Denmark and Norway
DocScrutinizer05each tutorial anyway tells you that DC is more dangerous to hzmans than same voltage AC, since you have no 100 times / seconds where your nerves and muscles still would shortly do what you want
Ducklemust be some interesting DC/DC converters on each sides
FuchikomaHVDC makes sense in long high power runs where the capacitive losses in long wires starts to become a problem
DocScrutinizer05also DC creates more electrolytic damage - damn I got a deja vu now
FuchikomaOr if superconductors are used
archivistmotor generators probably
DocScrutinizer05archivist: no, they actually do that solid state nowadays
Tutatorwould you need an anode for HVDC to stop the transmission lines from corroding/oxidising?
Ducklearchivist: Hmm I wonder. What kinda motor would you use for 400kV DC
weyland|yutaninowadays they us thyristors
Duckleyeah, that'd make more sense
Ducklecan imagine how a brushed DC motor would behave at 400kV :P
Tutatorone use smoke machine?
Duckleand I don't know of any propper DC motors
weyland|yutaniDuckle, The highest power rating of any single HVDC converter (twelve-pulse bridge) in operation was 2000 MW in 2010, on the ±660 kV Ningdong–Shandong scheme in China
DocScrutinizer05Duckle: for motors you can use several in series, until the voltage per motor is manageable
DocScrutinizer058kV for example
weyland|yutaniDocScrutinizer05, is it even possible to insulate those windings at 400KV +
DocScrutinizer05brushes/commutator would be the problem
DocScrutinizer05windings are manageable
weyland|yutaniDocScrutinizer05, also performance is only 70%
DocScrutinizer05yeah, prolly
DocScrutinizer05I also was going "W*T*F?!" when I heard about 1MV DC lines and solid state converters
DocScrutinizer05but that seems ptetty normal
weyland|yutaniyea up to 1980 it was only mercury arc valves
DocScrutinizer05well, 1MV isn't "normal", but solid state is
DocScrutinizer05off shore wind parks
weyland|yutaniDocScrutinizer05, i want to know how many of those tyristor configurations the blew up while researching
DocScrutinizer05nice firewirks
weyland|yutaniDocScrutinizer05, for the space shuttle main engine it was like "boom...oooh too much fuel intake...stutter stutter booom...ooh not enough fuel intake" they used a turbopump which run from a mini rocketengine
SpeedEvilNearly all rocket engines use turbopumps.
weyland|yutaniSpeedEvil, i never read enough about building one :D
SpeedEvilThe merlin rocket engine as used on falcon 9 produces 180 times more thrust than its weight
ZombieChickenyeah, but I don't think those turbopumps are run by another rocket engine
ZombieChickenI think some use V8s to power them
n2weyland|yutani, Thyratrons rock, though
n2Just saying
n2Totally unrelated
SpeedEvilZombieChicken: they don't
SpeedEvilZombieChicken: that would be considerably heavier than just a turbopump. Turbopumps have been used as far back as the V2
n2Especially hydrogen thyratrons.
ZombieChickenSpeedEvil: It depends on the amount of fuel you are needing to pump. There is a huge diff in the fuel pumping needed between, say, a V2 and the Saturn V
SpeedEvilZombieChicken: yes, and not in the good way
weyland|yutanin2, so do krytrons
n2weyland|yutani, yeah but they are more difficult to get their hands on
n2Nuclear weapons and al
n2Or is that the sprytrons?
n2Can't remember
ZombieChickenTo find a Kryton, don't you just have to find a blue woman, a partly shaven Wookie with Klingon-style ethics, and a living space ship?
SpeedEvilZombieChicken: In 1938, the V2 turbopump weighted 450kg, span at 5000RPM, and made 375hp.
n2ZombieChicken, wait...
n2Wasn't that Tom Clancy?
SpeedEvil - space shuttle main engine turbopump produced 52000kW at 160kW/kg, compared with 7kW/kg for a F1 engine
SpeedEvilIC engines have never been used as power sources for pumps in rockets, it's always been turbopumps, they're lots lightfor a given weight
ZombieChickenYeah. I still havn't finished my morning coffee, so that's my excuse. I may be confusing the SR-71 startup here
n2ICEs aren't power dense enough
n2My way too simple AM transmitter actually works
SpeedEvil - on using IC engines in rockets.
SpeedEvilBut not directly using them as a turbopump. It's a proposal to use boiloff gasses to run an IC engine, and do things to remove need for hydraulic fluid and other fluids
ThePendulumhmm I can't find any info on whether bubble envelops can go in paper waste or not
n2ThePendulum, they can't
ZombieChickenThePendulum: I wouldn't, just because
ThePendulumthey take up so much space in my trash :D
n2Burn them
ZombieChickenThen pop them
n2That's what will happen anyway
ThePendulumit's more about them being large rectangles
ZombieChickenPop them. They contain bubblewrap that demands to be popped
ThePendulumnot quite as satisfying inside an envelope :P
SpeedEvilThePendulum: pack them properly in the trash so they fit properly, don't just toss them
ZombieChickenor, if they are big enough, cut them up a little and make paper seaplanes
ThePendulumSpeedEvil: I suppose I could cut it up. any way of folding just makes it worse
SpeedEvilwhy would you cut them up - you stack them so they're as they come when new.
ThePendulumI've got other stuff in my trashbin as well though :P not really planning on carefully stacking everything I throw away in a bag
electrobotThePendulum just linked to Mitchell and Webb Situation - Stacking - YouTube
weyland|yutaniThePendulum, isnt that a perfect opportunity to go full hoarder? :D
ThePendulumI'm already hoarding baggies and twisties :P
n2ACTION just ordered a Wurth Elektronik capacitor design set
n2A huge hulking box
n2With mains-rated film capacitors
n2Of every size and capacity :P
weyland|yutanin2, why?
archivisthow do I get full hoarder status?
n2weyland|yutani, I need mains-rated caps?
n2And all of them can be used in a ton of circuits
n2Basically, it's a cheap way of getting my grubby paws on some good film capacitors
weyland|yutaniarchivist, cant open any window or door because everything is blocked with stuff
archivistpfft I remove doors !
Drakonitearchivist, You have to post a photo which shows walls are not visible due to stacks of stuffs
Drakonite(which I think you did a while back? :P )
Drakonitewill verify next week when it finishes loading :P
n2Holy f*cking shit that is slow
weyland|yutanistop dl you two its slooooow
gottanamehey guys, which induction sensor only have 2 cables, blue and brown instead of the usual 3? blue,black and brown
n2weyland|yutani, also, working a lot on RF oscillators and the like
n2and I am running out of small-valued capacitors that aren't ceramic
n2And you'll only try using a ceramic cap in an oscillator once :P
n2When the oscillation frequency itself oscillates
Drakonitearchivist, looks like a good start! :P
FuchikomaWhat's wrong with ceramic caps?
gottanamene ne Fuchikoma
n2Fuchikoma, they are durable and fine for decoupling
weyland|yutaniDrakonite, what archivist is not showing is his fany new workshop neatly arranged :D
n2But they are less than ideal
n2Not very stable
gottanameFuchikoma, I got a 2 wire induction sensor, blue and brown. I read from the part number its a non polarised switch
gottanamecan it still be used like a NPN switch right?
AllTunaHey, if my circuit is passing 60ma of current, and I add an extra motor, and the current then reduces to 30ma, why does that occur?
FuchikomaI have no idea
n2AllTuna, voltage drop
n2Check the voltages of the circuit
AllTunaEach motor requires 3v
n2Yeah but check the voltage they are fed
n2It may be drooping...
archivistweyland|yutani, what like
n2With a multimeter
DrakoniteAllTuna, it adds resistance to the circuit, making it harder for the voltage to push electrons through it
AllTunaand I'm providing 4v, so does this mean it's just not providing enough
n2And yes, resistive dropping
n2No, AllTuna
n2The voltage drops because of resistance
n2The second motor may add resistance, inductance
n2Serving to limit the current that can flow through
n2This forms a resistive voltage divider
n2How are the motors wired?
n2In parallel or in series?
AllTunaOh okay, so would the motor have some resistance rating or something?
AllTunaThey're in series atm
n2Yes, that's why
n2Each motor forms a resistor in a divider
AllTunaI'm just playing around
n2So each motor will get... 2v
n2And will not draw a lot of current
AllTunaOh I see
n2Wire them in parallel
n2It'll work
n2When wiring stuff in series, AllTuna, you have to account for the voltage that is dropped by each of them
n2You didn't, that's why it doesn't work
n2If you probed the + terminal of the second motor
archivistDrakonite, and then a bedroom has a map
n2You'd have, what, 1 or 2 volts there compared to ground
n2And the first motor would have 1 or 2 volts to its - terminal...
FuchikomaUnless your circuit can't deliver enough current in either case
n2(But 4 volts relative to the common ground)
Drakonitearchivist, you sleep on top of the boxes? :P
Drakonitethough I envy you for having stuff indexed and easy to find
archivistDrakonite, no under some shelves in the other bedroom
AllTunan2, where should I place the probes to find out the volage drawn by something particular in the circuit
n2AllTuna, its + and - terminal
n2The voltage difference between those is the voltage dropped over the circuit element.
AllTunaOk, a bit hard cause its on a breadboard, but you're right
n2Just put two cables in
n2In the same ... line as the +/- terminals
n2Those will be at equivalent voltage (with a teeny tiny difference)
n2It doesn't have to be at the physical point
ThePendulumI love when I want to order something on ali for like $2, end up ordering $80 worth of crap, and then the $2 thing I originally ordered isn't being shipped...
AllTunan2, so when theyre in parallel, this drains the battery twice as fast, right?
AllTunaCould I expect 60mA then
n2If they draw the same amount of current
n2Then yes
n2Parallel circuits essentially form two separate circuits
DrakoniteThePendulum, I always used to feel better padding out small orders with other random stuff, but now aliexpress is incentivising me to keep orders as small as possible :-/
AllTunan2, hmm, so really I have to weigh up between draining the battery faster, or having stronger motors - if I'm stuck with the same battery
n2Well AllTuna
n2Or you could, y'know
n2Add resistors?
n2To limit the current
flor1anAllTuna: you're like the description of the pizza that is in my oven right now.
FuchikomaAllTuna: What exactly is the situation?
AllTunaBut then they wouldn't get the 60mA and still be weaker, no?
n2Depends on the resistors
n2And yes, AllTuna, they will be "weaker"
n2You can't get two motors to run each with the power of one
ThePendulumDrakonite: how so?
n2And not have it draw twice the power from the battery
n2That'd be energy from nothing
ThePendulumDrakonite: because of stuff not being shipped?
AllTunaflor1an, except you'll never taste my sweet tunery goodness
DrakoniteThePendulum, rather than free shipping for larger orders, small orders have free shipping and larger orders tend to have higher shipping costs, and as you mentioned, the larger orders seem more likely to have missing items or not get shipped at all, resulting in possibly getting the random items and not the needed one
AllTunan2, so I'd only add resistors to save battery life, and reduce the strength
n2That's what they do, resistors
n2They add resistance and limit current flow
AllTunaBut if the motors require 60mA they will always try pull 60mA in the circuit?
n2But they can't
n2So they will pull less
ozzzyand they burn away heat
n2And rotate with less torque
AllTunaSure, but lets say i have 100v battery, the current will still be 60mA?
AllTunanot higher?
n2The voltage and current are not related
DrakoniteOhm's law!
n2You'd benefit SO much by reading just chapter 1
AllTunaI'm currently reading through a book, just getting some hands on playing now
n2Yeah but
n2You don't have Ohm's law down
n2Just read chapter 1
n2It's short, sweet and will help you
AllTunaI've probably read it many times, I just havent memorised it :P
AllTunaI'm also really not mathematically inclineed
n2Current = Voltage / Resistance
n2Voltage = Current * Resistance
gottanamene ne Fuchikoma, can I use a desktop power supply as a workbench power supply?
gottanamecomputer ATX*
n2Resistance = Voltage / Current
gottanamehow safe would it be?
n2So from that, AllTuna
DrakoniteTHE most important law/equation in electronics. Literally everything comes down to Ohm's law.
FuchikomaIt'll be fine
n2You can calculate the resistance of the motor
kmciagottaname: yep, common hack
n2Drakonite, even in cases where stuff is nonlinear
n2It's still very useful
kmciaand it's pretty safe i guess?
gottanamealso, I dunno if anyone here got first hand knowledge about this induction sensor
gottanameACTION frowns
kmciaI mean the voltages involved are not going to kill you under reasonable circumstances
FuchikomaGet one of those $15 CC/CV controllers for more flexibility
gottanamesupposedly google says the 2 wire induction sensor acts like a normal switch
FuchikomaI'd think an induction sensor would need active power
gottanameFuchikoma, yeah google says it take in active power
FuchikomaSo if it has only two wires it makes me wonder if it relies on chassis ground
weyland|yutaniarchivist, that looks like you want to rebuild the burned HP archives
gottanamehow so?
Viper-7gottaname: they have very large current ratings so they can get you into a bit of trouble in the right/wrong circumstances - but they have great short circuit protection etc features
FuchikomaOne wire is power, the body of the sensor is ground, and the other wire is output
FuchikomaThis is pretty common in automotive applications
AllTunaSo ok, if I have 2 motors nd the current is 30mA, with 4v, the resistance of each motor is 133ohms?
gottanameViper-7, it has blue and brown, I assume the brown is positive and blue is negative
gottanameFuchikoma, the link
n2AllTuna, the total resistance in circuit is 133 ohms
n2Since there are two in series
n2The resistance of each is 133/2
n2Also, the final bit of stuff related to Ohm's Law
AllTunaSo, am I able to calculate the voltage required if I want 3 motors running in parallel maybe with 60mA
Drakonite^ assuming they have equal resistance
n2Power (Voltampere, or watts) = Voltage * Current
n2AllTuna, yes.
n2And Drakonite, yes.
jollygood2does compressor with 94 dB sound power level (LPW) seem like something that could be ran in an apartment, in residential building, with neighbors all around me?
n2AllTuna, However, I'd just wire them in parallel.
n2And add resistors for each
n2To limit the current of one to 30mA
AllTunaI want them both at 60mA if possible
jollygood2sorry, that should have been 94dB LWA
n2Just wire them in parallel then
ThePendulumlol, SMD diode review
AllTunaOk so, wiring them in parallel makes the curcuit 90mA.. that wasn't expected?
gottanameViper-7, I just want to make sure I don't fry or kill myself
gottanameit should be safe given its 12v DC
FuchikomaYou'd have to be actively trying to kill yourself with an ATX power supply
SpeedEvilOpening it counts.
SpeedEvilThoguh fire is always popular.
FuchikomaLike "You kinda deserve it" levels of irresponsibility
FuchikomaYeah removing the metal casing would be one way
jollygood2large 400V or so cap can easily do it, no?
FuchikomaBut there's few legitimate reasons to do so
jollygood2oh we are assuming case is closed
user3209the computer gods hate me today
AllTunaIf my circuit draws 90mA when two motors are in parallel, is that because each is drawing 45mA, or each is drawing 90mA
FuchikomaAre the motors the only thing in the circuit?
AllTunaI mean, theres a small LED
AllTunacould that be drawing 30mA?
AllTunaOk lets see
gottanameFuchikoma, ATX PSUs have overvoltage / overcurrent protection right?
FuchikomaWhat's the circuit look like overall?
Fuchikomagottaname: In a fashion, most of them will shut off on overcurrent for one reason or another
gottanameFuchikoma, oh goody
gottanameFuchikoma, besides these weird ass omron induction sensors
gottanameI got a wireless charger board thingy
gottaname'tis is black magic
gottanameI know the science behind it
gottanamebut still sort of black magetic
Drakonitegottaname, like many things it'll sorta depend on the quality of them.
gottanameDrakonite, coolermaster
Drakonitere: overcurrent protection
gottanamebrand name ones
Drakonitethey should have some protections
gottanamenot talking about chinesium ones
Drakonitecoolermaster is reasonable quality
gottanameFuchikoma, I managed to kill mosfets in GTX980 cards
gottanameam I doing it right?
DrakoniteI'm debating if I should use an ATX PSU to power a pair of cheap CC/CV supplies
ZeroWalkerViper-7, you there?
_AxS_hey all - i've got a little project where i need to use a pic16f677 as i2c master to talk to an RTC; i'm coding in C. Should be simple, except (A) i need to use this pic16f677, and (B) I can't find any example i2c support function code that seems to match what that pic provides. I was wondering if anyone here that actually understands things could take a read through the pic16f677's spec and let me know if this "firmware enabled master mode" it
_AxS_talks about should be sufficient to handle i2c master functionality or if it only helps slave and I need to bit-bang out the master side?
password8why arent there any dinrail 5V usb supplies
_AxS_password8: just want a usb power plug?
password8ideally a 2+A din rail power supply with usb connector
_AxS_converting from AC? or
password8yeah , from AC
AllTunaSo when I use 4v of AA batteries, I get 90mA current, but using a ~3v CR2032 cell battery only gets ~30mA. Is this likely due to a limitation of the current output of coincell batteries?
password8you get plenty of 5Vdc
SpeedEvilOr do you absolutely require a USB socket
blightdoes anybody know if according to specs/standards every gbit ethernet socket contains a pulse transformer?
blight(or a "stand-alone" pulse transformer on the PCB for something that wants to provide gbit ethernet according to specs)
SpeedEvilblight: I haven't read the specs, I would suspect not, but it may be the only practical way to implement it
SpeedEvilyes, I meant that
SpeedEvilit may not be integrated into the socket, but there is going to be a transformer somewhere
blighti think that some early version of raspberry pi was criticized because it did not contain a transformer and someone claimed that would not meet specs, but not sure if that was a dream
password8USB and DIN RAIL is prolly not the best thing
_AxS_password8: there's some that look to be "open" and should be easy enough to solder on a usb port... i expect you don't want something you have to modify tho
blightanyway i measured a red-pitaya today and it seems to be isolated so it makes a nice floating 2-ch oscilloscope i guess
password8well if i do modify i would just get a USB cable and snip of the one end and put directly into a din rail %V
kmcAllTuna: yeah it probably has to do with the equivalent series resistance of each battery
_AxS_password8: *nod* ... this does sort of seem like it'd be a hole in the market tho, there are a number of things now that could use this usb plug for power I expect...
password8yeah , were running factory machines from PRIs
password8designs our own case for it
password8complete with a fan and filter and space for a hat
_AxS_password8: the RPi has headers for solder-on power too tho doesn't it? you don't need to use the plug, could just wire directly....
blightwould anybody be interested in making an oscilloscope for the red pitaya with peak detection and custom scaling? (so you could for example input a calibration for V to °C and have the scope display °C)
_AxS_...not that this would really be easier for you
password8we have a hat
password8and a case :D
tpw_rulesblight: what kind of calibrations would it support
tpw_ruleslinear ones often are far from enough
blighttpw_rules: custom linear (or affine) one is enough for my needs, but that would be done in the browser/javascript frontend anyway i believe so should be easy to add more functions
_AxS_AllTuna: all batteries have specific max current output they support, and you can find that info out on their spec sheets usually. That said, 30mA seems low for a CR2032...
blighttpw_rules: ahh ok you're thinking about NTCs for example, i guess?
blightone could easily make it possible to enter a formula in javascript i believe
tpw_ruleslike it would be nice to set units on the scope but i'm not sure when i would actually use it
_AxS_AllTuna: yeah, according to specs for the non-rechargable CR2032 it should be able to flow 200mA
blighti would use it in the lab where atm we have like 15 tektronix 4ch scopes to monitor different stuff like power of beams in mW, current of coils in A and so on
_AxS_oh wait, no i was wrong on that.
tpw_rulesblight: i mean the scopes i use already support V, I, R, and input scaling
_AxS_AllTuna: continuous standard drain is 0.2 mA, so 200uA .. haven't found the peak current rating yet (nor internal resistance to calculate it)
DocScrutinizer05AllTuna: can only provide maybe 50mA max, and this will make voltage drop to <2V or somesuch
tpw_rulesCR chemistries are not good for high load
DocScrutinizer05AllTuna: see "pulse characteristics, 100 Ohm 2s"
ShadowJKAllTuna, yes.
blighttpw_rules: i see
blighttpw_rules: and they're floating also? we would like floating ones to break ground loops
tpw_rulessome also support arbitrary equations, if you can sit there for 20 minutes with the knob to put them in
tpw_rulesi don't think the red pitaya is floating either
tpw_rulesit will ground through USB
blightwhat type of scope is it?
tpw_rulesone of the early DPO teks. i don't remember the number
blightit has a power supply with no PE contact and the ethernet contains a transformer, if you use an unshielded cable it should be floating
blightyou dont need any USB connection to use the redpitaya as a scope
tpw_rulesah ok
tpw_rulesthen yeah it wouldbe
blightand you get 2x14bit@125MS/s
tpw_rulesbut what's your frontend like
DocScrutinizer05archivist: what's that thing lower right on your bench, under all the HP stuff, with the wooden side panels
blightnot sure if it really gives you the 14 bits but 10 is enough usually
blighttpw_rules: through the webbrowser
tpw_rulesno like in order to connect a signal to the ADCs
DocScrutinizer05archivist: test TV receiver?
tpw_rulessurely that thing can't take 400V
tpw_rulesor 0.1mV
blighttpw_rules: ahh, it has low and high voltage modes, +/-2V or +/-20V depending on the jumper setting
blightand also you have to calibrate it otherwise gain and offset is quite off, not sure how stable those things are over time, so yeah it does not compare to a real scope in that respect
archivistDocScrutinizer05, systron donner spectrum analyser, not wood but that hard foam/plastic used for cases
blightbut for monitoring signals roughly it should be fine
tpw_rulesif it meets your requirements it's probably a nice cheap solution
archivistDocScrutinizer05, I think it should be handles but shortened before I got it
user3209_Is it possible to connect a phone's data lines to a PC while the power lines are connected to a charger?
tpw_rulesas long as you ground the two together, it should work
tpw_rulesbut keep in mind the charger might be using those data lines for ID
user3209_So I'd basically just need a custom cable?
tpw_ruleswhat is your goal?
tpw_rulescharge the phone really fast while connected to the pc?
user3209_When I connect my phone to my computer to share screen it slowly loses charge, even when connected to a USB 3.0 socket
tpw_rulesto be honest, i'm not sure your solution would help. the phone will negotiate a charge rate with the computer and only take from the charger as much as it would from the computer anyway
user3209_I've got it plugged into a powered hub so it should be getting about 1A
tpw_rulesyeah you need a more powerful hub then
tpw_ruleslike a 2.4A model
user3209_those exist? I thought they were speced for only 1A per socket
tpw_rulessome do i think
_AxS_ACTION would expect usb hubs these days could accept as much as 5A, to support multiple 1A+ devices...?
user3209_hmm, I'll have to have a look
user3209_yeah, but can they provide more than 1A on a single socket?
tpw_rulesbut what will happen is the phone will ask the hub for how much current it can draw. the hub says 1A, so the phone only does 1A even though you've got a 2A charger wired to it
mmfoodIs there someone in here who can tell me how to calculate the phase shift for a transient simulation in LTSpice?
DocScrutinizer05USB does ENUM, I doubt a hub will help ramping up charge current
majukIEEE has established standard test patterns for GigE PHYs. Anyone have a clue if the registers/values to write should be/are standardized across PHYs?
majukWould save me having to hunt down this datasheet.
tpw_rulesDocScrutinizer05: it will determine power from the hub, not the ultimate host
DocScrutinizer05does it?
tpw_rulesotherwise powered hubs would be pointless
DocScrutinizer05that hub needs to be damn smart then
tpw_rulesthey have to in order to route usb packets ;P
mmfoodIt seems it only works in ac analysis but I have an assignment that requires me to do it in transient analysis. Since I am running linux I can't use OrCAD where, apparently it is possible.
DocScrutinizer05hmm, err... no not really
tpw_ruleswhat do you man?
tpw_rulesusb hubs are absolutely not transparent
DocScrutinizer05a USB hub is still a hub
DocScrutinizer05not a switch
tpw_rulesthey gotta position themselves in the tree
tpw_rulesbut they don't just blast packets between ports. they can't
DocScrutinizer05ENUM is from peripheral to hist, hub or not in between
tpw_rulesthen what's the point of powered hubs?
DocScrutinizer05the host may know the hub is powered
DocScrutinizer05since the hub also does ENUM
DocScrutinizer05to host
tpw_rulesok fair enough
bart416mmfood, FFT
angangayou said basically the same
User3209-because the socket on your PC can only supply 1A, so if you try to run eight devices off it, they won't have enough power to run
tpw_rulesbut it has the same end result
tpw_rulesthe phone negotiates power based on the hub's claims, not whatever you've wired into V+
_AxS_User3209-: this one provides enough for an iPad, apparently:
DocScrutinizer05tpw_rules: yep
User3209-Don't know why I didn't think of this, but I've just used my USB power meter to check and apparently I'm only getting 0.47A so that explains that then
tpw_rulesthe phone might be limiting current to avoid heat issues
DocScrutinizer05User3209-: host usually only may provide 500mA
DocScrutinizer05unpowered hub: 4 * 100 for 4 ports, 100 for hub's own purposes
angangadefinitely get a better hub
bongofury_myeah USB used to be .5A I think, now they have 2.2A for chargers
mmfoodbart416: what is fft?
angangamy usb3 with usb-c connector charger is 3A
angangafft fast fourier transform
DocScrutinizer05:nod: there are a few new thinsg in USB3 specs like charging host and whatnot
majukmmfood: Fast Fourier Transform
Duckleolder brother just called me, agressive as he is when something bothers him
Ducklehe was having trouble getting his GPU out of his new PC, so he was understandably on edge :P
user3209it's a 3.0 HUB, so I expected 1A, but it seems it's underpowered
DocScrutinizer05that hub has a PSU, right?
DocScrutinizer05ugh gone
_AxS_DocScrutinizer05: no he just changed connections
_AxS_user3209: it seems not all hubs are created equal, that is, usb3 data support doesn't necessarily mean bc1.1 charging support or whatever standard that is.. at least from what little i've seen googling these last few mins
DocScrutinizer05user3209: even a USB3 host can't provide more than 500mA to a USB2 client
_AxS_DocScrutinizer05: ... a usb2 client wouldn't need 1A to charge itself though would it?
DocScrutinizer05the ENUM protocol has not even sufficient bits in that variable to negotiate more than 500mA iirc
DocScrutinizer05axthat depends
_AxS_oh.. so if there's no data channel active it might accept whatever current's available?
user3209more than that, with QC chargers they get 9 or 12V through their USB port
DocScrutinizer05when you run a 7" LCD with full backlight and a bazillion-core CPU at full load to decode videos or ehatever, that could sum up to >5*0.5 Watt easily
mmfoodmajuk: I only get the gain, how do I get the phase? ^^
DocScrutinizer05_AxS_: without data channel and wothout other signaling, a USB2 peripjeral is supposed to limit VBUS to <=100mA
_AxS_DocScrutinizer05: so then such a usb2 device would just never charge while in use?
user3209the dedicated charger can give me 1.67A@9V
DocScrutinizer05it will "charge" with 500mA from a decent host, and with whatever applicable from a USB charger
_AxS_DocScrutinizer05: i'm questioning the design decision of a usb2 device that would consume more than 500mA while active, since its usb2 and that's apparently the limit
user3209it's a dumb design, they decided not to use usb type C to maintain compatibility with GearVR
DocScrutinizer05_AxS_: sorry, I didn't make the USB protocol specs
DocScrutinizer05I just know a few USB2 details about charging
xihiroanyone knows where to download the damned scope?
DocScrutinizer05one of the details I seem to recall is ENUM using a ubyte for power negotiation, in units of 2mA. so max is 512mA
DocScrutinizer05on USB2 with ENUM aka host
DocScrutinizer05when your xdevice consumes more than 500mA it won't charge from a USB2 host
user3209what we're not sure on is whether the phone will limit itself based on the sayso of the data lines
DocScrutinizer05yes, that's not guaranteed but mandatory
DocScrutinizer05it won't pass the USB certification and thus not get approval and stamp etc
DocScrutinizer05no genuine windows drivers, whatnot else
user3209so what about
DocScrutinizer05looks good
SpeedEvil^The more recent versions of USB can approve >2A though.
SpeedEvilVarious battery charging additions, and USB3 can do it natively.
DocScrutinizer05BC1.1 is the magic word
user3209_ooo nice
SpeedEvilACTION has recently been trying to understand USB-PD.
DocScrutinizer05Charging downstream port (CDP)
SpeedEvilI want to make simple USB-PD power leads for non USB stuff.
aandrewSpeedEvil: that'd be pretty straightforward, although I'm not sure I'd want to be drawing power from my expensive PoE switches for random stuff
aandrewSpeedEvil: I've designed several POE-PD devices. It's not a difficult thing to do
SpeedEvilaandrew: not PoE
aandrewoh god, I'm sorry
aandrewfor whatever reason I read POE not USB
aandrewthat's different. :-)
MiyuPurity of Evil?
SpeedEvilPower over ethernet
Miyusame thing
kludgeIt's the recall code for the CRM-114.
DrakonitePillars of Eternity?
ThePendulummeh, thought I finally had a nice 12V + 5V power supply for all my projects... it's not very good, what did I expect from china
ThePendulumthere seems to be a random voltage drop along the length of my strip, goes from white to yellow... and flickers. that in addition to it being loud af, known issue
kludgeGoatman: That video doesn't have maru in it!
Goatmanyeah. I’m not using sound today
kludgeGoatman: You don't need sound to watch Maru.
xihirocan someone please check if this is fake? I installed shockwave and flash, but it doesn't work
_AxS_xihiro: define 'fake' ? it's a simulation, looks like all it does is react when you push buttons. that said i can't find where to launch it either
xihiro_AxS_, that's what I mean. I think there's no simulation at all
Goatmanxihiro, there are many videos on youtube about using an oscilloscope.
_AxS_xihiro: what browser are you using? if its firefox above v53, there's no way to circumvent the plugin stuff they're trying to use here
xihiro_AxS_, not even chrome?
_AxS_xihiro: i don't know about chrome.
_AxS_xihiro: google's browser and its plugin support is a different beat entirely. but its possible it doesn't support whatever nsplugin this thing is using too (which is more than flash, fyi)
xihiro_AxS_, I just tried ff 52 and it doesn't work
_AxS_xihiro: you did the hack to allow all plugins?
xihiro_AxS_, I did as suggested on the website
xihiroI guess that's not it, is it?
_AxS_xihiro: yeah that's what i'm talking about
GoatmanI have a variable capacitor LC tank filter circuit. How do I match the input impedance to the filter properly? A variable capacitor?
_AxS_ok if that doesnt work, ie you don't get some notice about plugin installation when you restart firefox, then the content must be disabled
xihiro_AxS_, do you know how to apply that hack?
_AxS_xihiro: you said you followed the instructions (added that plugins.load_flash_only=false thing to about:config) , if you did that then you applied it
xihirook, then it must be fake. I also just clicked on the documentation link and it leads to something else.
xihiro_AxS_, ^
kludgeGoatman: the impedance of the tank circuit is infinite at DC or at very high frequencies, and it is zero at resonance. So it will never present a uniform impedance to the source.
kludgeACTION goes back to arguing with mathworks.
Goatmankludge, right, but the long wire antenna also presents a varying impedance depending on frequency. How do I cancel this reactance?
GoatmanI need to match this filter to the antenna
Goatmandepending on frequency
GoatmanDo I use a variable inductor, capacitor, or both? how are they connected?
DocScrutinizer05Goatman: any capacitance/inductance will detune your LC tank anyway
GoatmanDocScrutinizer05, I’m not sure what you mean, This is on the ‘‘input’’ to the tank filter
DocScrutinizer05maybe a schematic would clarify what you're actually asking
stairmast0ri've destroyed way too many xboxes in the process of trying to jtag one
stairmast0rwhere is the appropriate channel to cry about it
HighInBCstairmast0r: what is the problem you are encountering? Soldering?
xihiro_AxS_, it works after all. On ie or chrome with ie-tab extension
_AxS_xihiro: nice.
HighInBCis it just pin header? probably best to practice on something cheaper
xihiro_AxS_, can't get it to work on ff, though
stairmast0rHighInBC: you have to solder a thickly insulated wire to an SMD resistor, it's really easy to rip it off
GoatmanDocScrutinizer05, Here is the tank coil for MW Dx reception :
_AxS_xihiro: yeah not surprised, mozilla's totally crippled every current version of its browser now
Hooloovo0 crippled in what way?
xihiro_AxS_, and I even didn't go to ff 57, so as not to lose add-ons
_AxS_Hooloovo0: dropping of all nsplugin support, of most 3rd party plugin/extensions, etc.
bobo1on1what a beautiful schematic
HighInBCstairmast0r: tape or hot glue it down once soldered so it does not get tugged
Hooloovo0oh, they fully dropped them? that's silly
Hooloovo0they definitely needed a longer transition period
_AxS_Hooloovo0: been threatening to do so since 2012, so its been pretty long.. its just, well, there's really no alternative so what can you do
x-fakanyone has one of those thing?
deniskait's not like there are useful nsplugins
Hooloovo0I was under the impression that they had something lined up
_AxS_deniska: yeah, and who uses in-browser java applets these days?
HighInBCx-fak: I have used the 50v5a one
HighInBCit works great
HighInBCI run it off of a 5S lipo
Hooloovo0but I'm not sure
deniska_AxS_: Yeah, who?
x-fakHighInBC , nice, what do you mean, you charge a Lipo battery with it?
_AxS_Hooloovo0: only for various media stuff. DRM content and so on is covered (and covered better than ever, really), but that's it
HighInBCno I power it from the battery
deniskaIME if a site uses a java applet it probably doesn't really work in browsers besides IE6 :)
HighInBCfor a portable power supply
SpeedEvildeniska: flash is going that way
_AxS_deniska: the biggest PITA it is for me is trying to deal with remote consoles on HP iLO2 systems. and yeah, now i run a windows VM with IE6 to do it
SpeedEvilWhich is a shame, because many awesome sites rely on flash. - for example
x-fakHighInBC , wow, really
_AxS_SpeedEvil: flash is still supported, that's the only plugin they whitelist.
Goatmanfuck flash. It needs to die, like 20 years ago
HighInBCflash is part of a dark history of the internet and should fade away imho
_AxS_..until 57 that is, now it's being phased out too
deniskaSpeedEvil: I don't remember when I last time used flash
_AxS_anyhow, back to electronics
deniskaSpeedEvil: desktop Google Music client needed it a year ago, doesn't need nowadays
Hooloovo0I wanted to use it to play a zachtronics game
SpeedEvilI have one streaming video site that only works well with flash
x-fakHighInBC , what do you use it for with your handheld battery?
_AxS_SpeedEvil: likely that one is moving to a proper html5 solution too..
HighInBCx-fak: -
x-fakHighInBC , when you buy the programmable PSU, you dont have any enclosure to put it in right?
HighInBCmostly when I am building stuff
HighInBCit is nice to current limit the first time you power something on to avoid the smoke test
HighInBCI just used an old plastic box
x-fakHighInBC alright, it's nice
HighInBCI have since added USB ports power by a small cheap SMPS
x-fakHighInBC what about all the bananas connectors needed?, i'm searching for a pack with all what is needed to enclose the PSU
HighInBCI just got them cheap from ebay
x-fakcan you send me link?
HighInBCI used these:
HighInBCget a connector for your battery type and some wire and you are good to go
HighInBCfor the longest time I just had it sitting loose next to the battery, finally put it in a box one day
x-fakHighInBC , i think i'll do as Dave Jones, using a DC jack connector and laptop PSU
HighInBCI wanted something I could take with me but a laptop supply is good
x-faki'm searching a good pack with the enclosure all built but couldnt find
HighInBClaptops supplies tend to have good voltage and current
HighInBCanything purpose build will be over priced
x-fakso i guess i'll have to do it myself, not hard
HighInBCjust reuse some old plastic crap box that something came it. My box is what my digital scales come in
x-fakjust have to find the right enclosure for the case
Fuchikoma Early fabrication of junction transistors
electrobotFuchikoma just linked to Birth of The Transistor: A video history of Japan's electronic industry. (Part 1) - YouTube
_AxS_ergh.. anybody done i2c on a microchip pic that has an 'SSP' (intead of an 'MSSP')? the former doesn't have SEN/RSEN/PEN/etc. etc., and i'm having a difficult time translating all the code examples that seem to be written for the latter (and depend on those bits) to the former.
phinxyWhat kind of table material is good for electronics work? Im looking for something that does not get scratches or burns
GoatmanDocScrutinizer05, any suggestions?
stairmast0rphinxy: wood
stairmast0rsolid oak butcher block countertops are relatively cheap as far as countertops go
phinxystairmast0r: and then when you want to take photos to show off your stuff you get another piece of wood to place it on. of course.
stairmast0rconcrete then?
phinxyShould the wood table be painted or oiled?
stairmast0ridk, i was just thinking about getting some oak butcher block to make into my extended desk/tinkering area, kind of overexcited about it, sorry
password2i used MDF
stairmast0roil or stain+oil
password2it scratches less than i anticipated
codepython777Does anyone have a recommendation for a good 24v 30a DC PSU that I can plug in the wall?
phinxychinesee linseedoil OK or do you get a premium kind?
password2i just painted a matt clear coat on my table
stairmast0rprobably chinese linseed is fine
GoatmanYou don’t ‘‘paint’’ butcher block.. Defeats the whole purpose
GoatmanIt’s like painting your stainless steel refrigerator
password2bucther block is rare here in anything bigger than a chopping board
password2Goatman, thats a stupid argument
password2simply because butcherboard is not meant for electronics
stairmast0rikea has the hammarp counter that might be discontinued soon, but it's $130 for 74 inch and $190 for 98 inch
GoatmanWhy, because butcher block is prized for its finish, just like SS?
codepython777I can use 2 x PSUs - any other suggestions?
password2codepython777, justbuy a psu
password2just today i saw 80A 24V supplies
phinxyGoatman, Thats like my all-aluminum sewing machines painted yellow! No reason to paint them except for looks.
x-fakHighInBC , do you know how is called the thing i signaled in red?
bongofuryThat looks like a TRS jack
GoatmanI have no sympathy for people who paint beautiful wood furniture out of dumbassery.
password2what about this ?
GoatmanIt’s lazy and it’s dumb
password2ok that price is shit
password2but that formfactor?
phinxyMarble is cool
stairmast0rphinxy: the price is cool too
stairmast0ris solder ideally supposed to be shiny?
roxfanwhen melted yes
roxfansolid not necessarily
stairmast0rwhy do 4 out of 5 joints i make come out dusty looking
archivistif dull you did it wrong
_AxS_stairmast0r: need more flux
stairmast0rcould it be the fault of the equipment/materials, or just me? i have a chinese solder station, i *believe* a hakko tip, microcenter 60/40 solder, and i use one of those infamous gold brillo tip cleaners
_AxS_stairmast0r: you soldering surface mount right? are you adding flux? you need to, it all burns off if youre just usign what's embedded in your solder
stairmast0r_AxS_: i also almost never use paste flux
_AxS_stairmast0r: there's your problem
stairmast0ralso not really surface mount, mostly through hole
_AxS_stairmast0r: its fine when youre doign throgh-hole etc., but for surface mount you want a lot of flux
_AxS_(it makes through-hole prettier too)
stairmast0rpretty is good
stairmast0rwhat's a good way to remove excess flux besides blasting carb cleaner all over it?
_AxS_cant help with that.
FuchikomaUltrasonic cleaner + appropriate fluid
gurki_AxS_: soldering smd wo extra flux for years
gurkitherefore i callb$
_AxS_gurki: but yours aren't going all dusty-looking right? so you must have your technique down
gurkinone do :p
_AxS_Fuchikoma: what's the appropriate fluid, out of curiosity?
stairmast0ris thinner or thicker gauge wire more likely to pick up interference?
_AxS_Fuchikoma: just the standard cleaner soap mixture? or something specific for flux removal?
FuchikomaStandard stuff ought to be fine
_AxS_stairmast0r: ...i think that would relate more to the length of the wires, whether they've got a twist, and what they're being run parallel to... ?
FuchikomaIt's the ultrasonic and heat that does the cleaning, the fluid just improves wetability
_AxS_Fuchikoma: nice. i'll give that a shot later
stairmast0r_AxS_: well there are two wires that need to run to the underside of the CPU on the xbox, then through a hole and up to the top of the board
stairmast0rthey'll be running around some x-shaped heatsink clamps
stairmast0rjust trying to decide what type of wire to buy for it. i already have some 30awg kynar stuff
_AxS_stairmast0r: i defer to experts here; i think your AWG should relate to the full length of the span in terms of the potential voltage drop and the frequency of the signal.. RS232 low capacitance cable is usually 24awg but iirc they can span many feet..
_AxS_30 could be fine given your distance..?
stairmast0rmaybe 1 foot total?
stairmast0r30cm, sorry for stupid units
codepython777password2: that wont work on regular sockets at home in the US
codepython777password2: Size is not an issue for me, I do need it good quality and fast shipping. Need it in next 2-3 days
bart416mmfood, Fast Fourier Transform
bart416It can pull a signal into phase and amplitude components.
zigggggyhey kludge!!!!!
kludgeACTION waves to zigggggy!
zigggggykludge do you have any candy left?!?!?
kludgezigggggy: I do! We got about 80 kids and planned for 100.
zigggggykludge did you carve out a pumpkin???
kludgeBut the good news is that we kept all the heath bars and made ice cream.
kludgeAnd yes, I carved a pumpkin and roasted the seeds.
kludgeYou have to, zigggggy. It's the holiday.
kludgeBut then I went to work and they still hadn't replaced my desktop computer.
codepython777 - How to become Amazon's "Choice" example?
FuchikomaSeems like an adequate power supply
gurkieh. ops. x)
kludgeThe wood I ordered has made it from Winnipeg through customs to Illinois in three weeks on purolator.
DoYouKnoware you building a circuit?
kludgeI intend to build record racks but at this rate who knows?
ZeroWalkeryou might end up reinventing the hamster wheel
_AxS_kludge: you imported wood from Canada? good for you but isn't that one of those things your gov't is trying to make difficult to do?
banandanaI have many books
banandanaon shelves
banandanamade of rich mohogany
banandanasup zigggggy
zigggggyhi banana!
banandanaI'm breaking records today
banandananot vinyl records
banandanano, those are too expensive
banandananah I be buyin those tho
banandanaI need a hurricane named after me
zigggggya banana hurricane?!
banandanabecause of the amount of flooding the channels get when I show up
zigggggythey already named republics after you
banandananot enough for me m8
banandanamy music suggestions drop conversations like hotcakes
kludgebanandana: Is it because of all the bongo records?
banandanakludge: no it's all the korean pop music
banandanaand 90s west coast gangster rap
banandanaand dirty southern trap
kludge_AxS_: I have not _yet_ imported wood from Canada. I am in the _process_ of doing so. I don't know why it's so problematic, I just want curly maple.
banandanaI think the dichotomy between those genres really alienates people
banandanaI've not found many who actually appreciate the genres, typically it's one or the other
banandananot really both
_AxS_kludge: as i understand it there are a few lobby groups in Canada that feel the same way :)
kludge_AxS_: I had no problem getting wood from Brazil!
banandanaI wonder if the Canadian lobby groups like korean rap music
_AxS_kludge: yeah it doesnt make sense; i get the impression it has to do with the fact that the same trees grow on both sides of the border more or less and buying Cdn finished lumber takes away from American jobs or something
kludgebanandana: this may help:
kludgeNo. wait.
kludgeThis may help:
electrobotkludge just linked to Black Gold - Lord Nelson - YouTube
banandanakludge: listening
banandanawhat genre is this
banandanathis is interesting
kludgeIt's sort of early soca.
banandanaI was just listening to NWA :v
banandananot really listened to soca music
banandanathis song was what I was uh
electrobotbanandana just linked to N.W.A - Chin Check - YouTube
_AxS_... i do not understand. -everything- i can find seems to say that to use i2c master mode you need to use SSPCON2's SEN/PEN/ACKEN/etc bits; there is no SSPCON2 on my chip but yet the spec explicitly says it supports master mode. :/
FuchikomaThat some kind of wierd library?
DoYouKno1installing gnuradio
banandanainstall gentoo
_AxS_aha.. ok looks like I finally confirmed these chips handle master mode by directly manipulating SDA/SCL.
ZeroWalkeranyone familiar with salae logic?
LeoNerdAsk; don't ask to ask
ZeroWalkerbut i want to;(
ZeroWalkeris there a way to count pulses between two points
phinxyZeroWalker: Have you tried?
ZeroWalkeryeah, and actually think i found it now lol
ZeroWalkeryou could drag the measurement
ZeroWalkeri was working with the timing pair thing
ZeroWalkerhmm, well the result is now what i expected though..about 1377601 pulses in about 1 second. i was expecting far less, like 23040 xd
gazelleIs it possible to spot weld a metal to a pad on a PCB?
_AxS_gazelle: ....there's hardly any metal at all on a PCB pad, i think you'd be better off soldering..
password2gazelle, yes , i think
password2but it wont be easy
Johnjaycan you get rigid plastic tubing from home depot that isn't pvc?
password2Johnjay, abs
Johnjaysomething like 1/2" in diameter or smaller?
password2or pet
whoisxySo I day I accidentially messed up the connections of my power input on my laptop. ofcourse I was wondering where eould I go about trying to find schematics so I can try and identify what died?
_AxS_Johnjay: plumbing will be abs, electrical conduit might be pvc
gazelle_AxS_, password2: any examples of projects that've done it? The metal is non-solderable
Johnjayit's just for a tiny craft project. i need a square rigid frame preferably plastic
password2what metal?
password2gazelle, nothing I've seen
password2its a weird feeling wearing a 9kg vest
whoisxyit's a long shot but was hoping that people map the boards and post them somewhere
_AxS_Johnjay: how rigid? how big?
samy^Any suggestions on a low quantity PCB manufacturer that provides white soldermask with expedited options?
JohnjayAxS: very rigid, probably 4x4" or 8x8"
Johnjayit says here abs is more flexible than pvc
_AxS_samy^: i use expresspcb , they aren't particularily cheap...
samy^_AxS_ cool, i'll check them out, thanks!
Johnjaybut it needs to be somewhat tiny, and pvc is like 1/2" and up
Johnjayi was thinking that stuff they make kites with that's super strong
Johnjayresin or something
password2gazelle, what material are we talking about?
_AxS_Johnjay: my experience is abs is less flexible than pvc.. 1/2" pvc would likely work tho for the size you're dealing with, and you can get that as electrical conduit (and the 90 deg. fittings too)
x-fakis it useful to have an external PSU of more than 30v? in which case?
tawrgazelle: sure, but not with a spot welder
tawrgazelle: that's how COB is done with hair-thin gold bond wires
_AxS_Johnjay: yeah if you need it very strong, fill the pipe with fibreglass resin after you've got it all glued and fitted together
gazellepassword2: sorry can't say. It's conductive but non-solderable
tawrgazelle: ^
tawrJohnjay: easy and fast? 3/4" or 1" aluminum angle iron, L corner brackets, and pop rivets
password2did you use flux?
password2hi tawr
Johnjay_AxS_: does it matter if I buy it as electrical conduit for price?
_AxS_gazelle: if you are welding it with the same metal, then you might have luck; if its a dissimilar metal you could well destroy the pad before the other metal gets close to hot enough
tawrJohnjay: conduit is different than pipe
_AxS_Johnjay: dont think so. I just know that's where you'd go at home depot to get it
gazelle_AxS_: yes, that's an issue, also the possibility of generating sparks/discharges. The PCB is already SMTd
_AxS_gazelle: yeah i dont think you would want to arc-weld it if components are already on the pcb
Johnjay_AxS_: i was just in the pvc aisle today in plumbing, you can buy pvc in 2" or long 6" or more sections
gazelletawr: I'm not sure if I follow. Is that like a sandwich for pressing to the pad?
tawrgazelle: ?
gazelletawr: the rivets
tawrfor ChipOnBoard type manufacturing, the raw silicon die
tawrthat was to Johnjay not you
tawryour answer was GOLD BOND WIRE WELDING
tawrwhich is how COB is done. welding to PCB
tawrhis answer was rivets for the frame he wants to make.
gazelleah okay, will look that up
_AxS_Johnjay: tbh, given the size of what you're doing, i think wood could make a decent frame; tongue-and-groove the joints and it'll be super solid.
Johnjaytawt: like this?
Fuchikoma I know this came up a few times recently, so just to be sure nobody misses it...
electrobotFuchikoma just linked to Automatic generator changeover switch (with schematic). - YouTube
Johnjay_AxS_: have to use plastic or metal for this, it's gonna be in water
_AxS_Johnjay: Ahh..
tawrJohnjay: then if you have a homedepot, corner brackets which are stamped steel plates with holes
tawrthat keep things 90 degrees
tawryou can get it in FLAT L or 90 degree L (the holes are 90 degrees between the two)
tawrfor if you want INSIDE CORNER, or TOP CORNER reinforcement
tawrtheyre like 3-4 bucks for 4
tawrhow big do you want the frame? btw what's nice about this kind of project is that nothing but handtools are required. file, hacksaw, rivet gun, done.
Johnjayabout 4-8 feet square. that's why i want it to be as light and small as possible
Johnjayi may just go with 1/2" pvc after I check what conduit type they have at home depot
tawrwell at 1" angle iron isn't going to be very stiff with just outside corners
tawr8' is going to sag under it's own weight pretty badly
tawrwhat is this frame for
JohnjayI'm trying to make a bigger version of this:
electrobotJohnjay just linked to How to Make a Easy DIY Solar Pool Heater - YouTube
JohnjaySomething like 2"x4" or 4"x4" then
tawroh, then i'd prolly go with abs piping and plumbing fittings for that Johnjay
Johnjayabs simply because it's easier to cement?
tawrno, i didn't know what you were doing. i thought this was a frame for like led lighting or a frensel lens or some art shit
Johnjayfresnel lens sounds cool
tawrJohnjay: 'solar melters' from old projection tv screens
tawrcan melt rock, metals, etc using solar power
Johnjaymostly i was hoping to just use one material
Johnjayin the video he uses 2, a pvc pipe for the frame and then pipe insulation for floatation
tawrthat is what I had in mind you were making in those sizes, but yeah dude, ABS pipe (people don't actually know the difference between PVC and ABS pipe). the video you linked is black abs, but you probably won't find that at home depot, i've not seen any abs stuff at my HD. either type will work, but you need to be aware free chlorine in your pool will probably degrade both ABS and PVC
tawri recommended abs since it's usually black, and you want the most solar absorption, but it doesn't really matter that much since you can just throw some rattlecan on it
tawrerr, from what i saw in the video, i didn't watch it just scrolled through it
Johnjayno he used pvc
Johnjaythen like black trash bag or something and some insulation
Johnjayat least he said pvc i thought
Drakonitethey do make black pvc
Johnjayshould I paint it or something?
Johnjaymore importantly is there some way to make this much easier on myself lol
Drakonite(I think... maybe I'm wrong)
Johnjaymaking 4"x4" version of that thing he has will be a lot of pvc and insulation
kmc!wire 12AWG
electrobotkmc: 12AWG (13.9SWG, 3.31mm², 2.05mm dia, 80.8 mils) Cu Wire Free air: 42.55A, Enclosed: 24.87A, Windings: 9.33A, mOhm/Ft: 1.59, mOhm/m: 5.21
Laggger164!wire 18AWG
electrobotLaggger164: 18AWG (19SWG, 0.82mm², 1.02mm dia, 40.3 mils) Cu Wire Free air: 16.16A, Enclosed: 11.02A, Windings: 2.32A, mOhm/Ft: 6.38, mOhm/m: 20.95
Helle*shudder* too many American measurements in my scroll back :P
JohnjayAs nice as Rammstein would be to listen to
Johnjayi'm hoping i can still do this project lol
SpeedEvil - on living in america
electrobotSpeedEvil just linked to The Hunt for Red October (5/9) Movie CLIP - Living in America (1990) HD - YouTube
Johnjayi wonder if home depot has greenhouse film...
JohnjaySpeedEvil: damn I see that same actor everywhere
Johnjayhe was in The Tudors and a million other movies
Laggger164e36freak you on?
Johnjayargh this is frustrating
Johnjayi can get a hula hoop for a few bucks at wal-mart but if i want a square frame i have to built i tmyself
NGC3982hi, i have this syncmaster 2443BW that has some issues i could use some help with
NGC3982it shows a picture for one second and then turns black
e36freakLaggger164: wha?
NGC3982i can see the picture in the background, but extremely dark
NGC398220% of the internet tells me it is a firware issue, 20% tells me broken backlight, 60% tells me bad capasitors.
e36freakdid you try turning it off and back on again?
stairmast0rNGC3982: i've had a bad cap cause the thing to turn on and off repeatedly
stairmast0rlike it would show a picture for maybe a half second, then turn off, then back on
NGC3982everytime i restart the monitor or cycle the source it shows a good, bright proper picture ..for a second.
stairmast0re36freak: small world eh
e36freakstairmast0r: lots of overlap in our channels :)
e36freakplus i'm in like 12 of them
zigggggyACTION eats mmfood
e36freakLaggger164: pm me if you need something, i'm on and off
durrfyeah freenode's tech channels have a lot of spillover
tawrJohnjay: you're being dramatic
tawrgo spend 6 dollars in plastic and make it already
NGC3982oh. :(
Johnjayperhaps. also i got confused because i thought you were answering me in another channel
stairmast0rhow do you solder a wire to one side of an smd resistor without desoldering the entire resistor?
durrfvery carefully
LeoNerd^-- what durrf said :)
kmctape it down with kapton tape maybe
LeoNerdNote you probably can't do it very well much below 0603
durrfget someone to hold the resistor down with tweezers
stairmast0runless... maybe i can tape the wire in place and hit the whole area with hot air?
kmcthat could work too
kmckapton tape is your friend
kmcnot cheap tho :/
stairmast0roooh that stuff
kmcyeah the orange translucent tape
kmcvery heat resistasnt
Johnjaythe flexible pvc tubing, is that called PEX?
stairmast0rJohnjay: the plumbing stuff is, yes
Johnjayoh ok. i saw some at home depot and they wanted like $100 for the cutting tool or something
Johnjaymaybe I misread it
stairmast0rJohnjay: probably not lol
Johnjaylol crap well I was thinking I might need flexible pvc
stairmast0ri remember all that stuff being mad expensive for no reason, when i was trying to figure out a way to install my water softener
zigggggyACTION prods mmfood
kmci also imagine it would help to use a very hot iron
kmchot enough to get a spot soldered before heating up the whole part
kmcbut you run the risk of a cold solder joint that way
kmcI think taping down as much of the resistor as you can with kapton is the first thing to try
durrfyou can often 3d print a jig that takes some razer blades for this kind of thing
stairmast0rman i need to get myself a panavise for christmas
stairmast0rit's been too long since i moved out and can't use my dad's anymore
stairmast0rthat thing was amazing
durrfi have found my DIY oil hoses+alligator clips drilled into a board to be woonderful
durrfand cost me a total of 6 dollars
kmcACTION is mailing a tube of her spit to The Man
spludI have a large panavise board vise, plus a panavise jr, which is screwed into one corner of my electronics workbencch with ONE screw, alowing me pivot the thing out closer to the corner of the bench (where it'd otherwise be a hinderance when not in use).
spludI liove the things, but there are a few irritations. The Jaws are not made of a thermally resistant material - if you're manouvering to deal with something and touch the iron to it, it'll melt.
spludIt lacks a quick release for opening/closing the jaws to a dramatically different position - you have to crank the thumbscrew. I modded mine to have a phillips cross head in the end so I can take a small LiIon screwdriver to spin it.
tawrJohnjay: you're still at this dude
tawrit's a 6 dollar project dude
tawrgo spend 10 dollars and make it.
tawrthen if it needs more work, make a new one or modify that one. this isn't a life changing decision, it's a 5 minute 5 dollar diy hack.
spludthose comments apply to the Jr. The larger panel one is metal and the 8" or so long adjustable ribs are moved into position by loosening a lock screw, sliding, then tightening the screw knob again.
tawrpex cutters are for getting precision cuts without crushing the tube so it's water tight and lasts decades, none of that matters for what you're doing. just like you don't need a ratcheting pvc cutter, a hacksaw will be fine.
spludA ratcheting PVC cutter is handy when you're digging up something in the yard and have to tee into it.
spludhacksaw needs much more clearance.
spludThough I have one of those loop-under saw cords.
awsExplorerHi @all !
tawrsplud: he wants to make a fucking floating square to make his pool warmer by absorbing sun. it's a 5 dollar project on a youtube video. it's nothing.
spludsaw cord and hacksaw both also introduce crap into the line thast you have to be careful to clean out for some purposes (such as drip irrigation).
_AxS_Johnjay: wait, wtf are you doing?
tawrsplud: yeah. but it's not an issue for his thing he keeps overthinking
tawr_AxS_: a floating square in his pool that's painted black. that's it.
spludSo, electronics Q.
tawrit's literally a 3 minute youtube video.
_AxS_what for?
tawr14:27:51 Johnjay | I'm trying to make a bigger version of this:
electrobottawr just linked to How to Make a Easy DIY Solar Pool Heater - YouTube
tawrbut he's just pulling an alesan
_AxS_ACTION facepalms
spludI have an Uno here (for expediency - normally I use the ATTiny ICs, even during prototyping), and it is powered via USB, That has several data lines, and originally the GND tied to a breadboard
spludon which I fully staged an SP0256-AL2 speech synth chip I came across in my "stuff" a couple of days ago.
_AxS_Johnjay: just get clear bubblewrap-style pool cover and be done with it, costs $150 maybe but at least it'll be -effective-.
spludCircuit just like the application example in the datasheet.
spludDown to a separate breadboard with LM386 audio amp setup.
awsExplorerHI @ all!! Since many hours Iam now trying to make smart switch work! I would be extremely happy if anyone could give any hint
awsExplorerthis is how I connected to led stripe:
spludwhipped up some straightforward code with an enum of all the allophones, and a couple of arrays that laid out a couple of brief statements.
awsExplorerthis is switch:
awsExplorerthis is cable i cut in two:
spludpin change interrupt set up to monitor the LRQ signal (active low), which signifies that the IC is ready to be told what to play next.
awsExplorerThe LED of the switch does not turn on
tawrawsExplorer: no
tawrbecause you have it on DC!!
tawrthat sonoff switches WALL POWER
tawrit goes between the wall plug, and the ac-dc adapter.
tawrnot in between the dc adapter and led controller.
tawrthat's why it's not working. look at the sonoff.
awsExplorerthank you!
tawrit tells you RIGHT THERE
tawrINPUT: AC 90V - 250V
awsExplorerI am new I dont know DC and AC etc..
tawrand you are putting in 12v
Johnjay_AxS_: sure that's probably the best option at this point.
spludISR calls (actually, inlined) a routine that sets up the address pins with the allophone next in queue, and strobes the ALD (Address load) line to trigger loading the address.
tawrwall power is 120v or 240v. that brick plugged into your strip (what you power the leds with) is an AC 240v to DC 12v adapter. that is the wire you cut.
spludAll my own code, not yanked from some repo (that I didn't go looking for).
awsExplorerthank you for the help!
Johnjayin any event the pool is not perfect rectangle so i'd still need to make at least one of these little cut out things lol
tawryou need to make a connector for wall power between the wall and the black brick power adapter. that is where the sonoff goes
aroonii have a philips go lite blue light that requires a 9.5V 1.1amp adapter; what is a common adapter size i might be able to get away with?
awsExplorerShould I open the ac240v to 12v box?
awsExplorerI am afraid of wall power
arooni9V, 2Amps should work?
awsExplorerSo this switch just helps me if I work with wall power
_AxS_Johnjay: ive messed with stuff like that before, any time you want the heat is when its cold out, and you can't make more with something like that than what escapes into the environment.
spludAnyway, Speech IC was powered via it's own regulated 5V input, Arduino powered off of USB. I've also tried powering the breadboard rails off the arduino power.
spludIf Arduino ground is connected to the breadboard ground rail, I don't get interupts.
awsExplorer@tawr I am really happy that you give me this hint
awsExplorerI was really wondering for long time why didnt work at all
spludWithout it (and thus ONLY the address pins and the LRQ + ALD) connected, it SORT of works. I get interrupts, but playback is wrong.
_AxS_Johnjay: once you have it tho, using a cheap submersible pump (or plumbing into your main pump/filter) to circulate water through a whole bunch of black garden hose -does- work.
tawrawsExplorer: ? :) of course bud
spludawsExplorer, I'd strongly suggest you not open it while it's PLUGGED IN.
tawrthat's what these places are for
TonelocDoes anyone here who of a thing like a monto carlo sweep in hardware? Say where you build a circuit and temperature cycle it whilst logging voltages/waveforms at all/major nodeS?
SmashcatHi, I have an device that wakes up for 2 minutes each hour, and uses about 200-250mA of power, then goes into deep sleep, using a few microamps. If I use a "20,000mAh" portable phone charger (powerbank), what wattage of solar cell will I need to keep it charged? I'm un the UK, so obviously weather is usually crap :)
tawrawsExplorer: you should be afraid of wall power.
tawrit will kill you. and not only will you die, it will hurt the entire time.
awsExplorerSince Iam new in the area i dont know if Iam smart enough to deal with wall-power I hear it could be unhealthy. Does someone maybe have an idea how I could have a smart switch without using wall power? So that I can cut behind the 12V converter?
SmashcatWorth noting that the device can run from 3.3V to 4.2V, so I was considering hacking the powerbank to take a feed directly from the 18650's inside of it.
TonelocI'm just wondering what it's called- its a monto-carlo sweet when done on a circuit simulator
tawrawsExplorer: nope. sonoff IS FOR WALL POWER. that is what they do.
tawrif you want something for DC power, get an esp8266 (the microcontroller inside the sonoff) and a relay board. there are a million ways to skin the cat.
awsExplorerWIth the controller I'd need to write some arduino logic to connect to wifi and build the rest http endpoint...
awsExplorerI hoped there would be cheap solutions like the sonoff that already provide REST http endpoint with authentication..
awsExplorersomeone wants the two sonoff plugs and is living in germany?
awsExplorerit seems theyre not meant for me to use..
SmashcatawsExplorer: As tawr said, just use an 8266 with relay module/board. There's loads of example code for that type of thing. You can switch AC or DC with it.
SmashcatawsExplorer: Of course it's more efficient to switch the AC power off, instead of the DC on the output end of a device, as switching the DC means the device is still "on", so wasting power.
splud Though, your switching device needs to be powered.,.
spludAnd 8266 need about 300mA @ 3V3
spludFor it to be connected and listening to DO anything, that parasitic load is present.
splud(and sadly, it a bit high for a simple CR supply)
awsExploreri wonder why no one build such an device with a rest user-infrastructure behind..
SmashcatawsExplorer: You can buy things off the shelf to do it.
awsExplorermaybe I sell this as a product. Would u think it makes sense? You buy the device and already have a rest endpoint for turning on/off
SmashcatawsExplorer: Like the KASA plugs - you can control them from anywhere with your phone.
awsExplorerU know some device that could do it Smashcat?
deniskaawsExplorer: are you reinventing X10 but over http? :)
SmashcatawsExplorer: Yes, look at the KASA plugs :)
SmashcatThere's loads of similar products you can buy off the shelf - but you pay more than building something yourself usually (and are locked into an ecosystem)
awsExplorerah yeah. Maybe I'd go with some of them. Though my product would be for low voltage not wall power plugs
awsExplorerAlso I would include maybe 3 relays with different REST parameters so people can easily connect their 3 led stripes
SmashcatawsExplorer: Sounds like you could just use a DMX relay box.
awsExplorerdoes it have wifi ?
awsExploreror seperate controller to connect it
SmashcatawsExplorer: Well a DMX box will be controlled by something else, like a microcontroller or PC/Mac. I'm pretty sure some have Ethernet control too though.
spludawsExplorer, so you want to make a device for DIY types?
SmashcatawsExplorer: But they're designed to control lighting, like LED strips etc. Can also handle the dimming.
spludPitch it as an IoT product?
spludInternet of Troubles(tm)
SmashcatReally it's the sort of thing you could put together with an 8266+relays in an afternoon, to be honest. Hardly any code...
spludBut the code you implement will have an impact on security.
spludawesome link there bub.
spludor is that awsEome?
awsExplorerHow can i talk to the 8266 then?
awsExplorerI would like to connect it with alexa speech computer maybe using aws lambda function
SmashcatThink maybe you need to learn the basics before diving into high current switching :) There are plenty of projects connecting a Raspberry Pi to Alexa to control relays too. Maybe read through one of those.
spludsame product, vendor, without all the cruft:
awsExplorer30$ shipping
SmashcatSame as the KASA stuff - but obviously also only switches mains on/off. If he wants to switch DC only, they're no good.
awsExploreryeah, I think going for basics would be good
awsExplorerHow do you control your smart home Smashcat?
SmashcatYou can actually use Google Now with a Raspberry Pi without owning a Google Home device. Just need a mic and speaker.
SmashcatawsExplorer: I use a combination of Vue, KASA and Alexa/Android app
spludoff to play at the workbench again. Need to sort out this IC.
SmashcatawsExplorer: Also used Amazon Lambdas and ITTT.
SmashcatawsExplorer: No Vue is Philips lighting system. I use it for all my lamps and ceiling lights so I can control the colour, brightness etc.
awsExplorerah ok
SmashcatawsExplorer: Sorry I mean "hue", not "vue" - dunno why I always call it that! :)
SmashcatI wouldn't recommend hue though - they have a really basic design fault: if you turn them off at the wall, they lose their settings, so have to set them again in the app. It's really annoying!
awsExplorerahhh ! hue i know!
awsExplorerWhy the people out there cant make one single system
awsExplorerI mean all smart home companies use same system
awsExplorerand this system also can have htpp REST endpoints
SmashcatThey want vendor lock in...
awsExplorermh.. yea
SmashcatawsExplorer: But all the ones I've used can be controlled by Alexa/Google Home, so they have APIs.
awsExplorerWe should make our own then
SmashcatRight, need to do some work :)
awsExplorersince I need to work as freelancer hard to earn some living money I fear I cant have enough time to build sth myself ...
awsExplorerI though about this 10$ Xaomi plugs but the app is all chinese
awsExplorer1) why they dont seem to have english app
awsExplorer2) why they dont seem to have http rest endpoint
awsExplorerDo you know photon?
majukPlease make the PHY work real good.
majukI got it /sorta/ good, but that's not good enough.
DoYouKnowhey, anyone have any cool youtube videos of high voltage or other experiments?
DoYouKnowI want to build a rodin coil
electrobotawsExplorer just linked to High Voltage Experiments - YouTube
user3209have you checked out photonicinduction's channel yet?
user3209he builds some pretty cool high voltage stuff
user3209then uses the high voltage to destroy things
DoYouKnowI've seen it before but will check it out. forgot the name
python476awsExplorer: that's some big ass arc
awsExplorerDoes someone of you know a ready build wifi plug with cloud-REST api?
python476chapter 2
electrobotpython476 just linked to High Voltage Experiments 2. - YouTube
awsExplorerDoes someone of you know a ready build wifi plug with cloud-REST api?
ketasrest in clouds
ketassounds dangerous
ketasyou might fall through
awsExplorerbut they look so comfortable
user3209_not if you're a pegasus
awsExplorer...when im in airplane
ketasi wish clouds were thick
awsExplorerthey must be softer than a pillow
ketaslike you can step on them
awsExplorerYou mean I cant?
python476oh some bit of culture
electrobotpython476 just linked to Federico Faggin at UC Berkeley 2-19-2014 "Microelectronics & Microprocessors: The Early Years" - YouTube
user3209_they're so soft that you fall right through them
user3209_imagine a gas so dense you float in it like water
user3209_I mean, it would probably crush you, but it seems like it would be interesting
rdhuser3209_, imagine breathing it in O.o
user3209_it would be far to thick to breath I imagine
user3209_we have an oxygenated liquid which could theoretically be breathed, but it's too thick for a human to force into and out of their lungs
user3209_rats can breathe it though, since their lungs are much smaller
user3209_favorite movie
user3209_"Breathing the fluid, which filled his suit, would supposedly allow his character to descend into a bottomless pit in the floor of the Caribbean Sea. Such a fluid actually exists. It was tested once on a scientist - who nearly died -and over the last 20 years has been tested on numerous animals, which survived. In one of the movie's most uncomfortable scenes, a white rat is really locked in a box of the liquid fluorocarbon."
XGP15A-IIi see some fluoinert chat, but it didn't start with cooling chat
user3209_PETA refused to give them a 'no animals were harmed in the filming of this movie' accreditation due to that scene
python476can't remember what, but abyss was responsible for some impact
python476oh yeah, production of T2
python476vfx in abyss made cameron reconsider the possibility of a sequel
user3209_it's kinda sad that with CGI these days a film like Abyss will never be made again
python476what do you mean ?
SpeedEvil oh fuck
python476the relation between cgi tech and movie making is weird to me
python476i think it has negative results now
user3209_it just wouldn't be cost effective. It was filmed underwater with the actors actually doing the diving and it was insanely difficult and expensive to do
python476oh I see
python476indeed crazy
user3209_it's the first, last, and only movie to be filmed that way
python476as if cameron said "lets go into a diving trip together.. and bring some cameras"
_abc__Talking car mandate??
python476user3209_: who knows, maybe Cameron will try it another time
python476the man actually went into the abyss
user3209_it was filmed on a full size set built inside an unfinished nuclear cooling tower filled with water
python476wow I didn't know that
python476cameron really like "big"
_abc__Ike c.b.deMille?
python476another flavor of big I suppose
user3209_every camera operator, lighting tech and actor needed two safety divers to watch them, and cameron often stayed under for long enough that he needed to spend time in decompression
user3209_and only people with wired audio sets could talk to eachother - everything else had to be done by hand signals
python476it seems that the harder a filming is, the better the movie
python476its impressive the movie is even good at all
user3209_The science is very well done as well, which I appreciate as a diver
python476hard sf fan
user3209_TBH I kinda dislike the last part of the movie because it goes off on a weird tangent
user3209_it's like "wow, this is really cool stuff and it's all grounded in reality" and then suddenly -SPOILERS- and I'm like wtf
python476what kind of ending would you wish to have
user3209_does anyone here not want spoilers?
python476try just a hint
ozzzyI don't watch movies.... spoil away
user3209_well I'd prefer that he doesn't meet them. In fact, completely remove them from the movie. The sub is sunk by conventional means and the ending is the survivors in a decompression chamber trying to make sense of what happened
user3209_if you want a happy ending, show them being successful on another rig a few years later
user3209_get what I mean?
python476I don't know how i would react without the tentacle
Johnjaywell i'm screwed now
JohnjayI lost the little ON/OFF clip thingie that connects the timer on my junction box
Johnjayno idea what it's even called or how to replace
python476an onoff clip
python476from the hermann onoff corp.
darkdrgn2kany one know if something like this exists for like a 1x10 pin connector
python476a riser ?
darkdrgn2kmore like a low profile 90 degree connector
python476yeah right
JohnjayHere's the little clip thing I need:
Johnjayi can't see behind the dial so idk if I can just insert something else there to do the same thing
e36freakanyone recommend a program for drawing up wiring diagrams on linux? kicad?
LeoNerdWhat sort of "wiring diagram"?
LeoNerdKicad could be the thing, but it's primarily designed for PCB design. It has a schematic mode, but that's largely to capture the schematic for your PCB
e36freakcurrently just something basic
e36freakPCB design would also be handy though...
e36freaklet's say, since it could be a likely future use for me, a wiring harness design for a standalone ECM
tawre36freak: fritzing
e36freakcannot tell if joking given "heh"
fire2199is there any difference between the arduino uno ch340G and the same but ATmege 16U2?
pfred1hello Jan-
Jan-ACTION brings cocoa for all
Mad7ScientistHow expensive is it to get a class action lawsuit going?
Jan-it's law
SpeedEvilMad7Scientist: can be free
SpeedEvilMad7Scientist: To you at least.
SpeedEvilConvince a lawyer you can get a win, and you may get as much as eleven cents.
Mad7ScientistSay a store has been charging the retail tax rate on certain items that are legally food items which should be 1% tax?
SpeedEvilThere are other options.
SpeedEvilHave you considered blackmail?
Mad7Scientistas in threaten to sue?
Jan-anyone can sue anyone for anything at any time.
Jan-the issue is your chances of success.
Flea86Hey Jan
LoshkiMad7Scientist: I would report them to local weights and measures department
SpeedEvilMad7Scientist: no, as in 'I will report you to the IRS or the appropriate tax authorities
Jan-hey flea
SpeedEvilAnd congrats Flea.
Jan-ooh, has flea achieved something?
Jan-A particularly spectacular leap?
Jan-Sucking the blood of an important or noteworthy person?
SpeedEvilHe has achieved 160% of his ambitions.
Jan-wow, that's a lot of blood
Jan-ACTION offers Flea86 a microscopic droplet of cocoa
Mangy_DogACTION quickly hugs Jan- and zigggggy before scampering off to bed
Mangy_DogNn all
Jan-oh nini mangy
Jan-sleep well
Mangy_Dogthankies you too
Jan-ACTION puts out all fresh bedding for Mangy_Dog
Jan-what ambitions are those speedy
SpeedEvilFPGA devboard on kickstarter
Jan-ACTION imagines Flea86 using a miniature flea-sized crane, with many other fleas in flea-sized hard hats and high visibility vests, moving surface mount components into position
Jan-what features does it have flea?
piperlestertheBear - you happen to be lurking?
Jan-is it fast enough to work on hdmi?
Jan-ACTION bets not
Jan-ACTION suspects that takes a lot
Jan-ACTION pokes Flea86
Jan-ooh, aussieflea.
Flea86SpeedEvil: Thanks man! :D
Jan-by the way, flea has a very cool name.
Flea86Jan: It's fast enough to do 1080p30 (I've tried) :-)
Jan-oh hey flea is from melbourne.
Flea86Yes, I am
Jan-our recently diabetic buddy loves telling people she's from Brighton
Jan-but really she's from Melbourne
Jan-which has a Brighton
Jan-colonialism ++
Jan-so the question is: is brighton a nice part of town
Jan-ACTION wants a flea ohm board
Flea86SpeedEvil: I must admit, that went a lot better than I had hoped :-)
SpeedEvilFlea86: have you worked out what you're doing on production?
Flea86Jan: Now you tell me.. lol
SpeedEvilI guess 300 is at the point you probably don't want to be doing it yourself
Jan-Australia is great. I want to go there.
Flea86SpeedEvil: Correct. Even if I made them all by hand it would take me maybe 3-4 months full time :(
Jan-all australian towns are named after either a) sturt, b) stuart, or c) something native with lots of non-vowels.
Jan-this was made clear to me when I heard about the fact that you can choose either the Sturt Highway or the Stuart Highway when leaving Sydney
Jan-and while they both begin there, one goes to Darwin and one goes to Adelaide
Jan-so you don't really want to make that mistake
Flea86SpeedEvil: Oh and yes, I have everything almost ready to go.. just need to finish my test plan
SpeedEvilGood luck
Jan-ACTION offers SpeedEvil a beer
Flea86SpeedEvil: Thanks
SpeedEvilACTION does not drink alcohol.
python476inhale it directly
python476look what you did me do
electrobotpython476 just linked to Red Hot Chili Peppers Carpool Karaoke - YouTube