Jan-flea where in australia should we visit
Jan-where's got the most toxic creatures and stuff
SpeedEvilJan-: Canberra
SpeedEvil(where the house of parliament is)
Jan-yes, yes, I get it.
Jan-I'm sure australian politicians are nice
Jan-all australians are nice
Jan-:)
pfred1aussies are all on the dole
spludrootin' for the dole.
Jan-in fact mindy has to go back to melbourne in a couple of weeks
spludTransferring speech synth IC and circuitry to a socketed and soldered perfboard, in the hopes that losing scores of jumper wires I'll sort out whatever the issue is.
Jan-I'm not sure how you get there, if you can go via singapore direct there or if you have to go via sydney
pfred1splud use machined turret sockets
spludMost people take an airline.
Flea86Jan: Quite a few cool places to visit here, I guess. I would start with Sydney..
Jan-I'm not sure how you get from London to Melbourne. Via somewhere obviously but I'm not sure if you can do it in 2 hops
spludpfred1, I've already soldered the socket and much of the connections.
Jan-Flea86: I thought that, but I really want to go to Darwin.
spludstandard springy tab DIP28W
pfred1you didn't use one of those horrid spring sockets did you?
Jan-our buddy says it's wonderful
spludIt's what I have on hand.
pfred1turret sockets don't cost much more really they're so much better too
spludFrankly, this isn't a permanent PCB affair - if it were, I'd have laid it out in KiCAD and etched something.
spludIt will however be much better than the incomprehensible jumble of jumper wires.
pfred1splud halfway through building those i always wish I'd had
pfred1I just breadboard neatly
spludFirst goal: get the darned thing to function.
kcrowCAW !
pfred1don't use those crap breadboard jumpers
spludSecond goal: dump the rom (there's a serial output for that) and re-implement the thing in an AVR.
spludThen I can make it an I2C or SPI speech synth.
Bird|otherboxo/ kcrow
spludwith virtually no support circuitry, lower power, and no funky 3.12MHz crystal.
kcrow\o Bird|otherbox
Jan-caw caw!
kcrowI made a peanut butter, pickle and noodle sandwich
kcrowk-caw !
spludon breadboard, I was getting "kinda" speech - sounds but not with the proper duration, etc. Expecting errant noise, loose connection, or crystal issue.
pfred1I just got my kicad running again yesterday
Flea86Jan: Darwin has never really been recommended to me, but I'd still like to go there someday. Alright bbiab (food)
Jan-I want to go to anywhere named after Charlie.
spludIN other news, have a decent set of bluetooth over ear headphones (with built-in mic, optional cord jack, and switch to run audio to external facing speakers).
SpeedEvilACTION puts on the chemical brothers for Jan.
SpeedEviloops
SpeedEvilThe prodigy
spludheadspring part snapped about a year ago at the office, a gross weak point in the design.. Been using them as BT speakers on my desk here since, but have to treat them gingerly.
SpeedEvilhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSTBFZ-To2E
electrobotSpeedEvil just linked to The Prodigy - Charly (Official Video) - YouTube
spludFinally said to rot with that and fished up a peice of metal, bent that to conform to the curvatore of the headband, did some disassembly and riveted the thing on.
spludNot going out in public with it (though a bit of sanding and some spray paint and it wouldn't stand out much), but woo.
pfred1other than the inability to edit sources.list I don't see why anyone would run Ubuntu over Debian
spludHalf felt like pre-emtively doing the mod on the other side of the headband.
SpeedEvilhttps://i.imgur.com/lKyzXvz.jpg?1 - test of articulated monitor stand I made.
SpeedEvil~1m length, 5kg load, ~1cm deflection.
ZeroWalkerwhen capturing the gb lcd signals which are at a maximum of 4mhz, i need to set my logic analyzer to at least 12mhz in order to not corrupt the decoded image. shouldn't 8mhz suffice?
LuminaxWkmorn'
SpeedEvilZeroWalker: generally not
SpeedEvilZeroWalker: unless everything is just perfect
ZeroWalkerso you generally need 3 times the frequency to ensure you don't miss anything? that's quite some overkill ;s
SpeedEvilIf you have accurately setup the clock sampling, and it's sampling at the correct time and phase, you may be able to use one sample per clock
LuminaxWkNyquist rate dictates a 2x max frequency
LuminaxWk......given ideal working condition
pfred1with scopes you generally need 10X over the siglans you'll be measuring
pfred1signals even
pfred1just how it works
LuminaxWkbut eh, why not use a 3x sampling?
LuminaxWkor 10x even
pfred1I'm talking about analog scopes
pfred1they work at the rated frequency but it is kind of sketchy
LuminaxWkalso ZeroWalker : that's MHz, right? I mean sampling a 4mHz signal using 12MHz sample rate is, to put out an understatement, an overkill
ZeroWalkerah know a tiny bit about that from audio
ZeroWalkeryeah both are Mhz, Megahertz
pfred1mHz
pfred1Nr, Hertz likes his initial capitalized
LuminaxWk....no
pfred1Mr. even
LuminaxWkmHz <- this is MILI Hertz
LuminaxWkjust saying :3
ZeroWalkerwell that's problematic, no way i could sample 12 MHz on the stm32 and still have any time over to do any work xd
ZeroWalkeryeah i do typos a lot, especially when it comes to stuff like this, in my mind it's all clear, so i don't notice it until someone tells me xd
Jan-I wonder if you can get hdmi video *into* flea's board
pfred1it helps when you can put a face to a name this is the guy the Hertz is named after https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heinrich_Hertz
pfred1though Wikipedia fails to capitalize "hertz"
LuminaxWkthe "hertz"
Flea86Jan-: Good question. I've not tried that (depends on what you put inside the FPGA and also the video resolution..), but I suppose it might be possible..
pfred1yeah I'm seeing that I wouldn't say it is right
pfred1wikipedia is garbage
Flea86Jan-: But of course, I can only give assurances about tested things :P
pfred1though you click on the link and in the article they capitalize it
Jan-the issue would be how you connect the hdmi port up to the fpgae
Jan-I'm not sure how fragile the hdmi signal is
Jan-I don't think it's LVDS, though
python476that would have been my bet
Flea86There are several problems.. LVDS/CML level differences are one of them. Maximum recoverable pixel clock would be another
Flea86So yeah, there's definitely some issues with it.
Flea86LVDS seems to be more forgiving as a video output however
Jan-so you're using the lvds serial outputs to drive the hdmi?
Flea86Anyway, it remains an interesting possibility nevertheless
Jan-I assume bit banging hdmi would be a bit scary
Flea86Jan: Yes. I am doing some hw serialization to get the 10x pixel clock rate
Jan-ACTION realises Flea86 is cleverer than she is
Flea86though not much gearing, but enough
Jan-the idea would be to get hdmi in, do colour transformations on it, and then send it out again
Jan-that is quite a high performance job
Jan-I'm not sure where we'd be
Flea86Well again, biggest problem would be the maximum resolution (pixel clock) that could be accepted by the FPGA
Flea86when running as a video input
Flea86and again, I've not tried it.
Flea86if it were trivial, I would've done it by now :3
Jan-something like 54mhz according to this widget I found online
Jan-for 1080p25
Flea86Well, my board could *output* that resolution.. dunno about input tho
Jan-I am quite amazed that a tiny chip can do that now
Jan-what is the power consumption?
Flea86Well, that depends how you configure the FPGA..
pfred1we're not seeing much more advancements with present hardware now though
MJCDholaaa
Flea86Static power for the ECP5 series is pretty low generally
MJCDnot exactly electronics but im looking for like, some kind of liquid, setting, sugru type stuff
MJCDlike not just straight epoxy its gotta have some give in it
MJCDand ideally not fiberglass cause fiberglass sucks balls
Flea86Jan-: As an example, for the Minimig core I previously had running on my Flea Ohm, with all the ports and SD card loaded up I get a current draw of ~100mA from the USB supply
Bird|otherboxMJCD, would neutral cure silicone not work?
MJCDBird|otherbox, neutral cure you say
MJCDnot heard of that sorry
MJCDim not super experienced
Bird|otherboxMJCD: ordinary RTV releases acetic acid when it cures. (you may notice this as a vinegar odor)
Bird|otherboxthat's bad when around electronics because it will corrode copper etal
MJCDliquid nails is kinda sorta the consistency I imagine but I really want like, a hard setting yet still bit flexible plastic
MJCDBird|otherbox, ah yeah if thats the difference I dont think its firm enough
Bird|otherboxneutral cure silicones work similarly, but release a different, non-corrosive chemical
MJCDits basically structural
Flea86Jan-: Note that is with Keyboard, Mouse, Video and SD card all connected to the board!
Bird|otherboxMJCD: hrm. what is the actual application?
Flea86Jan-: Makes you wonder if the keyboard and Mouse combined are using more power than the FPGA :P
MJCDwell in this case its for encasing the corner of say, two pieces of wood
MJCDbut the wood in this case isnt fastened by anything else
Jan-you can make this thing be an entire amiga 500 for 100ma of power?
gurkiwell the fun part about fgpas is that you mostly do not care about "i need over 9000 speeds of pixelrate"
MJCDliquid nails seemed interesting but in big quantities it didnt seem to dry properly
Jan-that's sort of depressing
MJCDnot really what its meant for
Jan-how much things have come on :)
gurki:-)
gurkithe hard part is fetching fpgas that have the transceivers you need. but 2x hdmi is pretty standard
Bird|otherboxMJCD: why don't you use something like a dovetail joint?
MJCDBird|otherbox, in this case the wood is pieces of bamboo
MJCDso its really quite hard to do joinery
Flea86Jan-: That's pretty much what I've measured here. Yes.
Bird|otherboxMJCD: flat or round?
MJCDbut that's basically my method atm ive tried; rubbing the end til they fit smoothly together flat end to round side
MJCDthen used superglue at the core
MJCDthen wrapped in hot glue
Bird|otherboxyeah, a high-end hotmelt adhesive seems like the thing
MJCDhmm ok so im not entirely crazy maybe then
MJCDhaha
MJCDthe sticks do feel pretty much like plastic
MJCDwith the right amount of give
MJCDI ended up having to use hard plastic plumbing pieces for this prototype though
MJCDto keep the cube together
MJCDwhich is ugly
MJCDand then gaffa/cloth tape around the whole thing
MJCD-_-
pfred1MJCD paint it
MJCDyeah that's the go for the prototype
MJCDbut im trying to think to the next
pfred1it is amazing what an even coat of paint can do for things
MJCDwhich will use a temporary hard plastic mould on each corner
MJCDthat ill fill with x material
MJCDthen remove the hard plastic outer
MJCDwhich will probably be milk jugs or something lol
MJCDcut up
pfred1our eyes are more drawen to color differences than anything else
MJCDwell for the prototype I dont really care its just for my cat
jsoftpfred1, what about movement
MJCDbut I kinda want to sell them locally
MJCDcustom built on location
MJCDso im thinking toward the next one as I say
MJCDalso designing her a self maintaining litter box incrementally
pfred1jsoft if something is moving on something with the same color background we won't notice it as much that's why camoflague works
MJCDneeds an arduino/rpi embedded to progress that one lol
MJCDthat is part of the concern with hotglue is I want to remove the mould after
MJCDmold
MJCDno idea how id do that unless it was like, ice
MJCDlol
Johnjayoh crap
Johnjaylooks like that stupid pin thing I lost means I'll have to pay $50 to replace the whole thing
Johnjayanybody know something cheaper than this? https://www.amazon.com/Intermatic-T101P-Pole-24-Hour-Timer/dp/B001MXB37I
pfred1I've molded hot glue in molds made out of never hardening clay
MJCDreeeealllyyyy
MJCDthats super interesting
MJCDwhere'd you pick up such a product?
pfred1yeah you can just press an object in the clay make an impression then fill it with glue
Johnjayoh god it's $67
MJCDI guess even normal clay would just wash off
Johnjayall for one single pin
MJCDthe glue is waterproof
MJCDbeing plastic
pfred1you can get never hardening clay wherever they sell craft supplies I think instead of water they use some kind of oil?
pfred1it is called modeling clay
MJCDoooooh
MJCDmodeling clay!
MJCDrightright
pfred1it's dirt cheap too
MJCDyeah it is haha
Mad7ScientistSpeedEvil, if they're actually paying the Illinois department of revenue the retail rate tax collected on flour containing candy sold in Illinois that should be at 1% then wouldn't the the Ill dept. of revenue be happy about it?
MJCDand will always wash clean unless fired
MJCDbrilliant
MJCDthanks mate!
Jan-I remember when an amiga 500 was the object of desire
Jan-ACTION sobs
Johnjayok. maybe i can take it apart and fix it
pfred1I use modeling clay a lot
MJCDJan-, do u even comodore 64
Johnjayis it enough to turn it off at the breaker?
pfred1when i want to model something
MJCDget a tape in u
JohnjayIt says to not unscrew the screw in the middle
MJCDpfred1, makes sense I guess
MJCDhaha
MJCDits in the name
JohnjayViper-7`m: please help, you're my only hope
pfred1like this http://i.imgur.com/Va42qmJ.jpg
pfred1then I traced that on paper and cut it out of wood http://i.imgur.com/kNTYdYY.jpg
pfred1came out OK
MJCDwood is definitely what I want to do next but its way too pricey for this project
MJCDatleast locally without a proper supplier
MJCDlike, just at the hardware store
user3209_wood is too pricy?
pfred1sometimes i use wood I find on the ground
MJCDyeah compared to bamboo..
Mad7ScientistJohnjay, did you lose the pin that you move to set the switch time on a timer?
MJCDbamboo is sooo cheap
user3209_uh, I think bamboo is wood...
MJCDlol....
MJCDsmartass
Johnjayyes. i was just standing there next to the breaker and I swatted at some gnats
SpeedEvilMad7Scientist: wait - there is a rate of tax for flour containing candy?
Johnjaynext thing I know it's gone. vanished. zilch. nada. big fat goose egg.
pfred1I carved this out of a branch I found in my yard http://i.imgur.com/Yqsap43.jpg
Mad7ScientistSpeedEvil, refrigeration or flour makes it a food tax rate item
JohnjayI'm thinking maybe there is a hack I can do but first I'd have to cut the power and I'm not sure which wire to test to see that the power is off
Johnjaypfred1: that's cool, how'd you learn to do that??
user3209_test ALL the wires
MJCDid put a cool $5 on Johnjay being electrocuted
user3209_no seriously,you should always check all the wires incase someone wired it incorrectly
MJCDpfred1, that looks really nice ^_^
pfred1Johnjay I think all humans have the inate ability to carve
Mad7ScientistJohnjay, is it magnetic?
MJCDas I say id love to have all the tools eventually
pfred1MJCD thanks
MJCDand be able to fund using wood
MJCDfor now bamboo and hot glue
MJCDxD
pfred1I just used a saw and a knife then some sandpaper
tawrno i don't think Johnjay will get electrocuted because he'll be in the room second guessing every minutae and never actually do anything
pfred1whittle do they know
MJCDrofl
Johnjaylol... when I use a saw things tend to get jagged and messy
MJCDwell these as I say are for production in realtime, I dont think they'd appreciate me just setting up lumber shoppe
MJCDfor like 5 days
MJCDxD
user3209_look for free wood furniture on craigslist and scrap it yourself
Johnjaytawr: Well I'm going to go outside and start throwing switches and randomly testing wires
pfred1Johnjay yeah only some saws cut well
Johnjayso any advice before i do that would be helpful
tawrJohnjay: was talking about your pool project
MJCDuser3209_, I havent scrapped anything wood, because most wood stuff is just so like, joined, and cut to size
MJCDbut
tawr:)
MJCDI do upcycle furniture
pfred1Johnjay I'm still working on learning how to sharpen saws
MJCDlovely way to spend a weekend
tawrMJCD: funny you say that
user3209_if you have a bigass table there's some good wood in there
user3209_or solid doors
tawri just refinished a damn 2" scraper
MJCDhaha if its a big single piece of solid wood as scrap you're lucky
pfred1I like fixing old tools up
MJCDwe sometimes have roadside pickup here
tawrit was a family member's fathers 2" putty knife but it had 3/8" of gunk on it and asked me to clean it up
tawrbut...
tawri accidentally turned it into furniture :(
pfred1that's a big pastime for me
MJCDbut most like big old doors and stuff ar esold for refinishing
MJCDits a huge thing here
user3209_ah well, I guess people here are just more wasteful
MJCDtawr, lool rude
pfred1tawr yup I've done scrapers
pfred1made handles for them and what not
MJCDuser3209_, haha lucky for you I suppose
pfred1good scraper is a nice thing to have
MJCDI saw 1 door once but it was hollow lol
MJCDRIP
pfred1most doors are hollow
MJCDmost shitty doors you dont want are hollow*
MJCD:P
user3209_interior doors are hollow, external doors should be solid
MJCDmy external in this house is hollow
MJCDbut meh
MJCDgood for the cheap
MJCD$$$
tawruploading now pfred1
pfred1so if you're not living in a house of doors it follows that most doors are hollow
tawrMJCD: rude how
user3209_I had a hollow external door. Almost got murdered by a drugfiend who smashed it down with his head
MJCDtawr, I was joking hehe
tawrit's uploading, sec
tawri didn't have time to do it as nicely as I wanted
Johnjaywhew, turns out you can buy these little tripper pins for $3 each.
tawrhttps://i.imgur.com/Dfs7R0k.jpg
MJCDoh good thanks for that image user3209_
MJCDxD
pfred1user3209_ where i live you could sleep on the street no one would see you
filadomei ordered some PCBs from Seeed and they billed me but the Order isn't showing up on the Orders list
Johnjayhttps://www.homedepot.com/p/Intermatic-Replacement-Trippers-for-T100-Series-Timers-156T1978A/100205118
tawr^^ it literally had 3/8" coating of old tar and paint and caulking and spackle over the blade. almost unusable. same for the handle. the lanyard hole was clogged solid MJCD and pfred1 ^
intranick|werkfool of a took
user3209_it's okay I had my roomate's broadsword
pfred1tawr that's really sharp
pfred1it has a tang and everything
tawryeah it's probably 60+ years old
pfred1they don't make scrapers like that anymore
user3209_luckily the guy lost interest after cracking the door in half and started threatening someone else before being pepper sprayed and tazed when the cops arrived
tawrpower sanded with a 5" 60 grit disk to get rid of the spackle, caulking, paint to get down to bare metal, dremel with 1/2" 220 grit wheels to clean everything up best i could, slack-flap spinner for lanyard hole in dremel
tawrthen handed sanded down to 320 grit
tawrfew coats of mineral oil, then 2 coats of wax
MJCDbeautiful, truly
pfred1tawr yeah that's a scraper for the ages
MJCDanyway peace for now thanks for the protips
pfred1I never seen one so fancy
MJCDoxoxox
tawri should have gotten a before
tawrit looked like a cheap plastic one that wasn't taken care of, i started scraping and went 'holy shit'
SpeedEvilI wish carbide wasn't quite as brittle as it is
pfred1I got one that had a plastic handle and it broke so I made a wooden handle for it
tawrSpeedEvil: there are some that are not as brittle
pfred1SpeedEvil there's lots of kinds of carbide
pfred1some less brittle than others
user3209_super hard things tend to be brittle, unless they're not as hard, then they're less brittle
SpeedEviltawr: yes, but all are rather more brittle than steel
SpeedEviland yes
tawrno
tawrdepends on steel :P
tawrpfred1: i have a really bad habit of 'gold plating'
pfred1tawr what do you mean?
tawrfor instance, i got a replacement part for my welding magnet (shifter bushing), and didn't want it to break again, so I made a chassis-mount lifting handle for it, then decided i should make a nice handle for that, then decided it looked ugly so i sanded the whole thing then painted it..
tawrit never ends
user3209_super shitty chinese steel can sometimes be extremely brittle
pfred1tawr ah I see you spiff things up a bit much
tawr"that handle looks nice, oh look a random 3/8" drill chuck let me make a pinvice" https://i.imgur.com/MC3DlOE.jpg haha
pfred1there's nothing wrong with that
Jan-would you guys ever spell someone's name "Ellena"
pfred1I don't like stuff all crapped up myself
LoshkiJan-: there's a woman at my gym called Moon. Anything is possible. But I'd spell it Eleanor, or Elena.
pfred1tawr if you ever find a 1/4" chuck making a drill extension with one of them is a handy thing
tawri get made fun of a lot for it heh
pfred1a lot of times i can't get my cordless drill into places then I add the chuck extension I made
tawrespecially by BradR
pfred1I just found a bolt that screwed into the chuck and cut the head off it
Loshkitawr: that's not why you get made fun of
tawrpfred1: lucky. this had a weird metric thread. went through my box of junk, and found a brakeline fitting that screwed into the chuck, which i then tapped with 1/4-20, except the flare fitting nut was hardened steel and almost as hard as my tap, so it took forever to tap (i through-tapped), then red loctited it into the chuck, then 1/4-20 SS bolt with the head cut off so I can put a SS locknut on the
tawrback to secure the handle
tawrLoshki: shush you.
pfred1tawr old chucks here are just standard fine threads
pfred1for a while i was buying old orded drills for next to nothing no one wants those anymore
pfred1corded drills even
pfred1I don't pay more than $3 for one
pfred1they're handy around the shop to use as little grinders and stuff
pfred1like this http://i.imgur.com/kiZ1am6.jpg
Goatman.dict kangaroo court
Johnjayspeaking of broadswords
Johnjaywhy in the entire show of the walking dead is only one character armed with a sword
Johnjaythey should *all* have swords, and chain mail, and shields, full medieval IOW
ozzzyswords are horribly inefficient
e36freakyou're horribly inefficient
tgeekybecause the pre-zombie situation wasn't the middle ages, it was modern times?
ozzzye36freak, I am
Johnjaytgeeky: idk, aren't here sword shops or something
tgeekyno
Johnjayor like, museums?
tgeekynope
Johnjayif ou had 24 hours to get a sword, how hard would that be?
tgeekybut I have like, 10 other things to use as weapons here now
e36freaknot at all if you already own one
tgeekywhy go to a musuem where it's well known that zombies congregate
e36freakzombies congregate at museums? i didn't think they had taste
Johnjaytgeeky: you have 10 other piercing type weapons at the ready?
Johnjaywhat like poleaxes?
ozzzyI've never seen a zombie anywhere
e36freakozzzy: try baltimore city
ozzzybeen there... didn't see any
tgeekywhy do they have to be piercing?
tgeekybut i have a ton of poles in my garage that are currently used as handles to brooms, etc
tgeekythose can all easily be sharpened
ewong"How can you have a ton of poles? The Earth only has two.. North and South..."
e36freakewong: i hear there are many in poland
ewonge36freak: actually I had thought of that but wanted to refrain from using that slur
MrRick3
tgeekyjust calling people from poland 'poles' is a slur?
e36freakyeah that's news to me
Johnjaytgeeky: the rules of the tv show is that you have to cut the head off or stab the brain somehow
Jan-ACTION prods Loshki
Johnjayalthough they sort of implicitly modified that to allow blunt force like baseball bats later on
Jan-ACTION stands back as Loshki topples slowly forward to THUD on the floor
Jan-ACTION pokes at Loshki with her toe
Jan-...medic?
JohnjayACTION wonders if he has enough sand paper to sharpen a broomstick
tgeekyi have a bench grinder
tgeekyi can guarantee that will work
e36freakdepends
Johnjayin the apocalypse there's no electricity unless you also happen to have a generator
e36freakone of mine has a wire brush on it. maybe not so effective
tgeekyi do not
tgeekyi have an inverter tho
Johnjayalthough the show isn't very realistic zombies excluded
Johnjaythey are still driving cars around and getting gasoline 3+ years into the zombie thing
Johnjayi think gasoline spoils over time iirc
tgeekyi won't go so far as to say those shows are stupid, but I don't watch them
tgeekyI was actually a little disappointed that Game of Thrones is essentially a zombie show
tgeekyi felt a little cheated
Johnjayactually I think the fact it's a zombie show could possibly save it
tgeekyand 'the walking dead' is filmed like 30 minutes from where i live
Johnjaythey need to have the zombies march in and kill everybody and go for the black heart of darkness ending where nobody wins
Johnjayonly way to save that show at this point
tgeekyi haven't watched any of latest season so don't fuck me
Johnjaytgeeky: don't bother, it's bad and going to get worse
Johnjaydon't say you weren't warned!
tgeekyJohnjay: there is only 1 more season
tgeekyand 2) it's like reading a huge book and stopping at the last 25% of chapters or somethinhg, I'm going to finish it.
Johnjayyou'd be surprised how quickly you can ruin a show or book
tgeekyfair enough. at least on TV, there will be some breasticles and testicles for us to view
Johnjayprecisely
Johnjayi mean if we're gonna go balls to the wall I want to see fractured fairy tales
ozzzyhey rocky... watch me pull a rabbit outta my hat
Johnjaypinochio never becomes a real boy, cinderella gets beaten by her evil step sisters in the end
Johnjayhell do jack and jill go up the hill and then break their legs and it really hurts. or something.
tgeekyanyone here really understand jfets?
Jan-I barely understand normal fets
joe_ztgeeky, in the basics, yes
joe_zreverse bias the junction, and you turn it off
joe_zapply no voltage, it's on (depletion mode)
joe_zof course, you normally don't want to *forward* bias the junction
tgeekywhat happens when you do forward bias?
joe_zthat tends to cause problems
tgeekyi don't mean accidentally, what happens when it's done intentionally
joe_zbut basically the junction acts as a diode, and the FET starts to act a bit more like a BJT I think
joe_znormally this *isn't* done intentionally though
joe_ztgeeky, I once had an amplifier on my desk for repair, with J-FET input stages
tgeekyI don't know if it is intentional or not, but I have two devices with 15 JFETS each that forward biases almost all of them intentionally
joe_zit was effectively missing a power supply rail
tgeekyI wonder if this is how they are doing lowest leakage modes
joe_z+30V supply was reading about .2V
joe_zeverytime the input forward biased a JFET, the output of the amp final stage went full rail
tgeekyjoe_z: these are used as a switch to a single node in a multimeter, so I'm not sure how much that experience translates
joe_zbut anyway, a forward biased J-FET, although I'm not an expert, probably looks a lot like a BJT with an additional diode drop on it's base
joe_znope, nvm
joe_zI was thinking about the device physics wrong
joe_za forward biased J-fet will look like a diode form the gate to the source
joe_zand like a FET that is on, from drain to source
joe_zie, resistive, mostly
joe_ztgeeky, got a schematic?
tgeekyjoe_z: oh yeah
ballIs it time for pie yet?
joe_zisn't it always time for pie?
jsoftMmm pie
JoeLlamatry pie, try
tgeekyjoe_z: https://imgur.com/a/4scPI
JoeLlamapie: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3Gdezyt8eY
electrobotJoeLlama just linked to Pie | Weebl and Bob : ep001 - YouTube
tgeekyjoe_z: picture 1 is picture 2 with hints about the jfets in question (although you should add, below, Q112 and Q113 too as they are involved in a similar way)
JoeLlamatgeeky wats dat?
tgeekyJoeLlama: keithley 197 5.5 digit multimeter
tgeekyJoeLlama: the whole schematic, nothing missing (except display, which is trivial)
JoeLlamasweet
JoeLlamahow old is that looks old
tgeekyit has dates on the schematic, but the meter was built from about 1984 to about 199x
joe_ztgeeky, know what U112 is?
tgeekythe military, it turns out, supported and calibated it at least until 2013
JoeLlamaoh very nice... looks solid
joe_zcomparators?
tgeekyJoeLlama: LM339
tgeekyyep
tgeekyJoeLlama: either 399 or 339, I have a full complete partslist
tgeekythough it's in an awful format
tgeeky(google docs sheets sheet)
joe_ztgeeky, which j-fets do you think are forward biased?
tgeekyjoe_z: At least all of Q110-Q113
tgeekyjoe_z: and possibly all of them
joe_ztgeeky, I see a number that can never be reverse biased
joe_zbut I haven't looked at all
tgeekyjoe_z: as in, the circuit won't permit it?
joe_zQ104-109
joe_zno possibility of reverse bias
joe_ztgeeky, yes
joe_zoutput of LM339 is open collector
joe_zit'll pull down to -9V, but it won't push to 5V
joe_zpullup is to a diode drop under 0V
joe_znope, I'm blind...
joe_zhold on
joe_zU101?
tgeekyjoe_z: yeah, remember they are both in negative feedback
tgeekythat's TLC27L2cp, which is a low-current opamop
tgeekyI think selected for its very low offset voltage
tgeekyU102 is a dual jfet
tgeekyhttps://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/17CHjWOX5RTU5xrua3ilFP_EpbpIR5rW0J7dqsEoAU9c/edit#gid=868497922
electrobottgeeky just linked to accounts.google.com (Google Sheets - create and edit spreadsheets online, for free.)
tgeekyjoe_z: I just realized that this circuit is probably a lot simpler overall than I have been thinking it is (which is probably much more complicated than you think it is)
tgeekybecause all of U112 and U103 have identical values for (-)
tgeekyjoe_z: so I have a specific question btw, I am all for general help and trying to help you understand whats' going on if you're interested in this circuit for some reason
joe_ztgeeky, U101A is a unity gain noninverting buffer
tgeekyalthough I *Just* realized that perhaps Q101 and Q102 are doing something different than *specifically* just input protection
tgeekyand I had them removed
joe_zpullups for Q104-Q109 are all therefore at the voltage of the JFET source terminals
joe_zso no chance of forward biasing the junction
joe_zif G cannot be more than S
joe_ztgeeky, ask away
tgeekyjoe_z: what do you mean "pullups for"
joe_ztgeeky, R130E, C, and A
joe_znear U112
joe_zthey bias the JFET gates at the voltage of the output of U101A
joe_zuntil any of U112 pulls them down to -9V
joe_zoutput of U101A is a unity gain buffer, input fed from the source terminals of the JFETs controlled by it, thus ensuring the JFET gates there never have Vgs > 0
tgeekyjoe_z: so then the only difference between that set of jfets (8, instead of 4, but still) and the bottom set is that there's also U102 in the mix
joe_zassuming things are working properly, of course
tgeekyinstead of just U101B
joe_ztgeeky, yeah, that's a bit more complex
tgeekyjoe_z: i have detailed measurements on thesee jfets in circuit by the way
tgeekyI am not yet willing to remove them because they are in a very low leakage part of the circuit and I don't want to disturb the board at all there, if I can avoid it
tgeekybtw
joe_znotice that if Q116 is off, then U102 is technically just a unity gain buffer as well, aside from op amp nonideal stuff
tgeekyjoe_z: yep, Q116 is a x1/x10 switch
joe_zso, same thing if Q116 is off
joe_zyeah, if it's on...
joe_zyou get a gain of 10 there, for U102
tgeekyi wish I understood how you figure that out so quickly
kiki_lambI've seen a handful of virtual ground circuits using BUF634s, but they are expensive. What's a discount substitute / similar-ish part?
joe_ztgeeky, I dunno about you, but I've been working with this stuff since 8
joe_z8 years old
tgeekysince you were 8 y
joe_znow granted, I didn't understand what I was doing at 8...
tgeekywell if you're 9 years old, then I'm impressed in a few different ways
joe_zI'm 21
tgeekyok
tgeekyso not a graybeard
tgeeky(yet)
joe_z:)
Storytellerwill foggy weather make a generator use gas faster?
JoeLlamaI'm 58 :P
joe_zand studying to be an EE
JoeLlama(moo)
joe_zand everyone tells me I'm good at it
joe_zanyway...
joe_zwith x10 gain...
tgeekyjoe_z: the x10 gain there is only on in like
tgeekyone situation
tgeekylet me check real fast
Storytellerlike what would make it use fuel faster on almost no load?
Storytellerits brand new so Im guessing its in a break-in period
tgeekyjoe_z: yeah, the x10 gain there is only on in 200 millivolt (lowest) DCV range, and the lowest (200 ohm) resistance range
joe_zthat figures
tgeekyjoe_z: that range, 200 ohm, is *super* busted, it doesn't give any readings, correct or not, at all, ever
tgeekyjoe_z: so
joe_znow Q114 and Q115 appear to be the only 'normal' path to ground there
joe_zfor the sources of those JFETs
joe_zbut we're talking about low currents here
tgeekyjoe_z: so here's the specific question and setup:
tgeeky*all ranges and modes* work, except resistance.
joe_zOK
joe_ztgeeky, using 4 wire leads?
tgeekyon resistance, after some unknown disturbance in the last few days, last night, *roughly* worked (gave correct values to 3 or 4 digits, with flucuations thereafter) last night
tgeekyjoe_z: 4 wire does not affect the working of any ranges in this discussion
joe_zhmm, I see the 4 wire jacks are joined by 220K anyway
tgeekye.g. it doesn't fix the 200 ohm problem, and it doesn't change results in any resistance ranges that does work
tgeekyjoe_z: anyway, so it worked last night, but *only* worked when I put an oscilloscope probe (x10 and x1 didn't matter much) on the node of R111.
tgeekygrounded to ground
tgeekyremove the probe, measurement of resistances on all ranges is all over the place
tgeekyjoe_z: the 2V ref node is always stable, and so is the CR101 +5V -> 4.33 V "ohms source"
tgeekySORRY
tgeekywrong
tgeekyR110
tgeekyscope probe was placed on (either side of, but usually the far side of) R110. So basically the ohms switch, pin 5
joe_ztgeeky, switch tested good?
tgeekyI don't know if it's relevant, but Q101 and Q102 are simply removed from the circuit; one of them was bad and I haven't put replacements (if I even have appropriate ones) in yet
tgeekyjoe_z: yeah, switches were refurbished and still contact well
tgeekyas of even later that night, and probably still today, this no longer works
tgeeky(the oscilloscope probe doesn't cause any resistance ranges to work properly)
kiki_lambHmm, TI's product page is recommending the OPA692 as an alternative to the BUF634, but I notice it's calling it a 'video buffer'. What does that imply?
tgeekykiki_lamb: high speed
tgeekykiki_lamb: sorry, i am engaged in my own discussion here
tgeekykiki_lamb: but that is just an opamp. it's interesting in that it has pin-selectable bandwidth, and also pretty high bandwidth (both 30 mhz and 180 mhz are pretty high)
tgeekyand high bandwidth is what you need in a video opamp
tgeekykiki_lamb: and the slew rate, 2000 V/us, seems *very* high to me
kiki_lambtgeeky: NP, no need to apologize for being in another discussion.
tgeekykiki_lamb: come to think of it, the output current also seems somewhat high to me, but I don't know much about that
kiki_lambHmm, okay. Those features don't really matter to me, I'm just looking for something to make a nice juicy virtual ground with.
tgeekykiki_lamb: i assume you have heard of 'rail splitter' ICs?
joe_zkiki_lamb, those are probably also capable of driving 150 ohms
tgeekyjoe_z: going back to the issue of forward biasing, I am sure I have seen the gate node on at least one of Q110-Q113 be +3V or so, or higher, on two different meters.
joe_zif it's a good one, it'll drive 75 ohms
tgeekyThough two of them are broken, so perhaps this actually points out the reason why they are broken :o
joe_z(shorted output, with 75 oh source impedance)
kiki_lambtgeeky: i have, but they also seem pricy... I'm trying to figure out if there's a middle ground between 5-10 cent opamps and the multi-dollar chips
joe_ztgeeky, relative to the source terminal though?
tgeekyjoe_z: relative to uhh, analog ground
tgeekyjoe_z: which, now that I think about it, is a silly measurement
tgeekysince neither of U112 nor U103 reference ground themselves
kiki_lambseems like there are plenty of good options for 2-5$/chip, and shitty options (regular opamps) for a dime, but no middle ground in the <2$ range
tgeekykiki_lamb: well, the one you linked is just a regular opamp as far as I'm concerned, I think
DuckleHmm I wonder why C5/C6 plugs have become so popular with laptop chargers (cloverleaf plug)
Duckleinstead of just double insulating them, and using the C1/C2
LeoNerdSmaller than 13s. still have earth
kiki_lambtgeeky: shoulda said 'common' opamp, maybe?
DuckleLeoNerd: Well yea, but do you really need earth for a laptop charger?
tgeekykiki_lamb: well if high speed doesn't matter, then list all opamps that can deliver 250mA
kiki_lambright now I pretty much have 'starter kit' style opamps - TL07X, LM3XX, NE5532
DuckleLeoNerd: again, earler ones I had used to be double insulated
kiki_lamband I'm still blowing 'em up 20% of the time, so I don't really wanna start spending 4-5$ each yet :/
joe_ztgeeky, any idea what the dotted lines mean in the schematic?
joe_zQ114, Q115 are tied to it
joe_zshield ground maybe?
tgeekyjoe_z: yep, guards
tgeekydriven guards
tgeekyjoe_z: one of the reason this meter is cool, imho, other than it's awesome when it's working, is that it contains some of concepts used in high end meters but used a simple enough way/circuit that everyone should be able to internalize this whole meter
tgeekyjoe_z: the ADC, for instance, is charge balance + single slope
joe_ztgeeky, the guards, floating or grounded then?
joe_zI'm not familiar with the concept
tgeekyjoe_z: the guards are supposed to be driven to nearly some other voltage, so that there is extremely low leakage
tgeekyi suspect you will be able to tell me the voltage
azonenbergOK so, somebody sanity check me here for a second
azonenbergI have a DSO input that's rated for 5V RMS max
tgeekyjoe_z: I don't remember the value or stability of the guard voltage, I wasn't checking it during my tests last night
tgeekyazonenberg: 50 ohm?
azonenbergYes
azonenbergIf I have a circuit that is powered by +/- 5V (dual rail)
azonenbergand I hook a 3 dB attenuator between it and the DSO
azonenbergexceeding the rating should be physically impossible, right?
joe_ztgeeky, well whatever it is, the sources of Q110-Q113 will be within one B-E drop of Q114/Q115 of the guard there
azonenbergBarring any kind of inductive etc elements in the output path causing flyback effects and so on
joe_zuh, B-C drop actually
tgeekyazonenberg: incorrect
tgeeky3db takes you from 10Vpp to 7.07Vpp
azonenbergwait, attenuators are power ratings not voltage?
azonenbergi was thinking dBv
azonenbergnot dBm
tgeekyazonenberg: like, a SMA attenuator?
flybackACTION bites azonenberg 
azonenberghttps://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/analog-devices-inc/HMC653LP2E/1127-3007-ND/5359987
joe_ztgeeky, but the RMS voltage of a signal with 5 V peaks cannot be greater than 5V RMS
joe_z10Vpp sure, but +/-5V peaks
azonenbergjoe_z: well that's the question
azonenbergDoes 3 dB on a 10V p-p signal give you 7.07 or 5?
azonenberg3 dB is 2x, sure, but is that half the power or half the voltage?
joe_zazonenberg, 7.07Vpp
azonenbergHmmm
joe_zbut 7.07Vpp does not exceed the rating of the input, as long as the peaks don't go beyond +/-5V
azonenbergSo in that case i want 6 dB
joe_zso offset matters as well
joe_zazonenberg, nah, I think it's fine
azonenbergThis is a $5000 scope
azonenbergi'd rather err on the side of caution :p
joe_zazonenberg, sure, but it's still fine
azonenbergSuppose my circuit fails and outputs 7.07V DC
joe_za 10Vpp square wave, centered around 0V is 5Vrms
azonenbergthat's >5 RMS
joe_zazonenberg, can it?
azonenbergIt's a differential amplifier
joe_zyou said yourself, it has +/-5V rails
azonenbergSo if i rail one input high and one low
JoeLlamahey azonenberg :)
tgeekyazonenberg: in any case, there's probably no harm in attenuating way more than 6db even, espcially since it's such an expensive instrument it's probably got good range
joe_zif it can output 10V, yeah, go for the 6dB
joe_zmore even
azonenbergWell i'm speccing out the power supply now :)
joe_zgive some safety factor
azonenbergSo i havent decided yet :)
tgeekyi was assuming you were measuring e.g. the +5v rail and the -5V rail, being the worst case scenario
azonenbergBut yes i think rail-to-rail output is the worst case
azonenberg10V p-p
joe_zazonenberg, but peak to peak isn't what matters, RMS is
azonenbergAlso, 6 dB power attenuation is 0.5x voltage gain?
joe_zazonenberg, yes
azonenbergThats a nice round number then, i'll go with that
joe_zeasy to make too
azonenbergThis is an active differential probe
theMagnumOrangedoes anyone here do freelance work full time?
joe_znot that you should make it yourself, you might get bandwidth issues with something homemade
azonenbergSo if i have 10x probes, 2V/V gain in the diff-to-single buffer,. then 6 dB attenuation on the output
tgeekytheMagnumOrange: isn't that like, a oxymoron?
azonenbergI should get a net of 10x attenuation through the whole system
theMagnumOrangenot really
azonenbergjoe_z: https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/analog-devices-inc/HMC655LP2E/1127-3008-ND/5359988
azonenbergI don't think i am going to get bandwidth problems
azonenbergusing this attenuator with a 500 MHz amplifier
azonenbergand feeding a 350 MHz DSO :p
DocScrutinizer05well, that is the usable range, not the ABS MAX, right?
azonenberg(although the scope is upgradeable to 500 so I want to have the B/W to handle that in the future)
joe_zyeah, that works if it'll take the power
azonenbergRunning the numbers for that now
alexdovzhanynhey guys!
azonenberg26 dBm max input power = 398 mW
DocScrutinizer05which scope has 50Ohm input and 5V RMS?
azonenbergworst case 5Vrms at 50 ohms input is 100 mA, 500 mW so i'd be outside the range
azonenbergDocScrutinizer05: lecroy wavesurfer 3000 series
azonenbergit's switchable
DocScrutinizer05aah
azonenberg400V p-p max in 1M ohm mode
DocScrutinizer05then worst case you overheat the shunt
tgeekyjoe_z: I can make whatever new measurements that I need to in 30 min to an hour, but just trying to learn as much as I can from last night's probing, if some of the gate legs of Q110 to Q113 were +3 or +4V relative to ground, and the rest were kept at e.g. -50mV or so relative to ground (when "on")
joe_ztgeeky, what matters is gate to source voltage though, really
DocScrutinizer05which maxes a lot of sense with RMS, all other ABS MAX are peak transient
tgeekyjoe_z: not vis-a-vis being forward biased, but being bad
tgeekyjoe_z: all of Q104-Q113 are just two types of transistors
tgeekyjoe_z: one of them is I think a process 51 jfet (lowest possible leakage), and the other is... some unknown process jfet (possibly 58)
cnnxis fuel cell technology advanced enough to generate power for a 10AH 12VDC battery about? is this feasible for a mobile robot application power source?
tgeekyjoe_z: if you have the spreadsheet open, check "sheet3"
DocScrutinizer05makes, even
tgeekyjoe_z: which has in-circuit pinch off voltages measured on the left-ish, and then transistor tester (in-circuit, off, obviously) measurements
joe_ztgeeky, permission error on the spreadsheet
tgeekyjoe_z: one sec
DocScrutinizer05azonenberg: unless you think your signal could exceed 5V TMS constantly for several seconds without you noticing and stopping it, I wouldn't worry
DocScrutinizer05RMS*
azonenbergDocScrutinizer05: again, this is a probe amplifier
tgeekyjoe_z: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vRPCP1d_FYs0AJeMwUSzyarm2B6IBNlxoqwma30Wt5QOgZkkcYxZdv-2Bi_EbTcxRHPBH-otx3l9TMp/pubhtml
DocScrutinizer05on 50R this is about heat dissipation on shunt
tgeekyjoe_z: sheet1 is partslist
azonenbergThe inputs will normally be 20x attenuation 50 ohm probes
azonenbergSo i should have a hard time getting to >1V on either input
azonenbergBut i'm trying to do a conservative design so even if you feed a crazy out of range signal to my board
azonenbergit cannot kill the scope, period
DocScrutinizer05worst case it will kill the shunt
DocScrutinizer05but sure, conservative design is always best practice
tgeekyjoe_z: so looking at this with fresh eyes, J2607 must be the low leakage device (probably process 51 or 58, whichever is lower)
tgeekyI think those devices are < 5 picoamps leakage, maybe
DocScrutinizer05prolly mire convenient though, from a risk management perspective: use 1M mode and external 50R shunt, they are dirt cheap and easy to swap *if* anything goes south
DocScrutinizer05https://www.pulseresearchlab.com/products/prl-ftr-50
DocScrutinizer05or rarher BNC prolly
tgeekyjoe_z: i'm sorry if this looks like just a huge mess of info, I find it hard to format data and collect it quickly
joe_ztgeeky, no problem
joe_zbut I think I'm having trouble understanding the mode switches on the schematic
DocScrutinizer05ok, those are not exactly "dirt cheap" either ;-D
joe_zthere are switches labeled things like ohms, amps, volts, etc.
tgeekyjoe_z: yep, in the default drawing you see
tgeekyall switches are "out"
tgeekywhich would put the meter in ohms mode
DocScrutinizer05https://www.ebay.com/p/Ancable-BNC-50-Ohm-Terminator-Rf-coaxial-Connector-Adapter-5-pack/5007310278
tgeekyin other words, they are drawn as out, which the meter detects as ohms mode, but measurement of resistance is not possible because e.g. the reference current source (ohms, pins 8-9) are not connected
tgeekysimilarly, R110 is grounded
tgeekyI was of course taking measurements with the ohms button pressed in
tgeekyjoe_z: as for the upper jfets, Q105/Q104, 106/107, and 109/108 are set up so that they have staggered pinch-off voltages
tgeekywhich I'm not even sure about now that I type it, primarily beause they are always turned on/off together
tgeekye.g Q105 is never turned on without Q104, and the same for the others
tgeekyjoe_z: oh, so it must be basically Q115 and Q114, by themselves, 'driving the guard'
tgeekyjoe_z: I thought one of the opamps must be doing that
joe_ztgeeky, actually it's U101B
joe_zthat connection is snaked in there a bit
joe_zbut it does hold the JFET sources to within a BJT B-C drop of the output of U101B, which is the thing supplying their gates
joe_ztgeeky, does this meter autorange, or manual ranging?
tgeekyjoe_z: it autoranges when the highest range switch is used
joe_zOK, I assume you weren't using autorange?
tgeekyjoe_z: on the other schematic page, bottom right, "AUTO"
tgeekyjoe_z: correct, which basically means i throw out testing that ohms range (which is 200M, versus 20M)
tgeekyjoe_z: FYI, there are more documents that I can give you, but I figured you'd ask
tgeekyjoe_z: there is a detailed troubleshooting table, and drawings for what tehse jfets are connected to
joe_zI'm satisfied with the schematic :)
tgeekyjoe_z: it's kind of a cool circuit, no?
joe_zyeah
joe_ztgeeky, have you considered the possibility of R110 having a cracked solder joint?
tgeekyjoe_z: yes, I haven't reflowed it but I did continuity test both sides and do considerable pushing and prodding
tgeekyit's sound
tgeekyjoe_z: so again, Q101 and Q102 are out of circuit
tgeekyand one of the two (I don't remember which) is dead. ostensibly they are just for protection, but maybe they provide some other function
joe_ztgeeky, like you said, they look like input protection
tgeekyjoe_z: they are certainly not your regular transistors like the other clamps
tgeekyjoe_z: that is to say: the other ones are 2n5089
tgeekyand 2n3904
tgeekyand Q102 and Q101 are... GES5818
joe_zunless you've got a voltage outside the range of their clamping on that side of RT101, I'd say you're fine without them for now
tgeekynope, and I've been extremely careful too; I dont' switch ranges unless the machine is off
joe_zbut it is possible they need some capacitance on that line
joe_zdoesn't sound too likely though
tgeekyjoe_z: i know that touching an oscilloscope probe to either side of RT101 also sent resistance measurements all over the place
tgeeky(even after the probe on R110 was conneted)
joe_zx10 probe?
tgeekyjoe_z: I think so yeah, I only ever changed R110 probe to x1 to see if it mattered
joe_zhmm
tgeekyi can double check that in a few minutes
joe_zdunno if impedance affects it or capacitance
joe_zif you're so inclined...
joe_ztouch it with your finger :)
tgeekyI did that too, same sort of thing
tgeekyall over the place
joe_zwell, it's clearly sensitive
tgeekyhaha no kidding :(
joe_zwere you grounded at the time?
tgeekynope
tgeekyso.. that's not great
joe_zthat suggests mostly a capacitive effect then
joe_zrather than a resistive loading effect
tgeekyjoe_z: so these transistors have 55 pF max emitter-base input capacitence
joe_zyeah, you might try a 100pF there
joe_zin case a finger isn't enough
tgeekyHAH
tgeekyHAHAHAA
joe_ztgeeky, oh, well that's emitter to base
tgeekyjoe_z: which by definition is 0
tgeekylol
joe_zbut these are using the colloctor to base junction
joe_zso it may vary
tgeekyjoe_z: which is 15 pF, but at V_cb 10V, I_e 0, f = 1 mhz
joe_zbut 100pF may be a good starting point, I don't think it'll damage anything
joe_zoh, that much lower...
joe_zand at a higher reverse voltage too
tgeekythe emitter-base is 55pf @ 0.5V i=0 f=1MHz
joe_zI did once solve EMI issues in a computer by touching a particular couple of pins with a finger
joe_zI've also made all-band AM radios that way :)
tgeekyI still don't fully understand, but it's kind of funny now to view AM radios as basically noise generators
joe_ztouch finger to particularly sensitive spot, suddenly hear all AM radio stations in phone handset/headphones/etc.
tgeekywell, AM signals
joe_ztgeeky, I also noticed that regardless of U102's gain setting, the positive terminal of U101B is the same
joe_zprovided U102 isn't saturated, + and - inputs should measure the same (well, within offset specs for that amp anyway) meaning the output of U101B is still never significantly more or less than the source voltages of the JFETs there
joe_zso definitely no chance of forward biasing those FETs
joe_zwell, given a normally operating circuit I mean
tgeekyjoe_z: so does that make a difference in voltages for those fets more or less interesting?
tgeekyi mean, does that immediately say, check that again and see, and if they are forward biasing then they are broken?
joe_ztgeeky, well the gates may differ between them...
tgeekyor not even forward, but the fact that they don't go as far up
joe_zbut there should always be at least one terminal that is lower potential than the gate
tgeekyjoe_z: yeah, as you can imagine, almost all of these fets are selected by hand too
joe_zerr, higher potential I meant
joe_zmaybe both, I'd have to think about it
joe_zI'm wondering if these JFETs are also allowing reverse current
tgeekyi'll be home in about 15 minutes, so I'll get started as soon as I get there, and perhaps you will have time tonight
tgeekyjoe_z: through (something)-gate, you mean? my current picture of these jfets is that they are basically just switching, so they don't care what's on the shared line
joe_ztgeeky, yeah, my impression is that they are just switches as well
tgeekyjoe_z: I did think of, last night, introducing very small signals into the drain pins and seeing if I could see that signal, even when they were pinched off
joe_zbut I think they are passing current from source to drain, as well as drain to source
joe_zbut maybe not
joe_zthere is, in theory, no reason a J-fet couldn't be used in the other direction
joe_zreal device construction may prevent that from being practical however, but I don't know (that's speculation)
tgeekyjoe_z: so there are only a few parts on this board I 'pray' aren't dead/damaged. U102 is one of them (because of calibration)
tgeekyU106 is another (because it costs $30 or $50 to replace)
tgeeky(the AC TRMS chip)
tgeeky*this* meter was damaged while in AC volts measurement range, due to my error introducing a grounding loop because... the display is actually an arduino + 16x2 display which was USB connected to a computer which was grounded
tgeekywhile measuring wall AC
tgeekyi took this to mean that basically anything could be damaged because there's no telling what the overall ground potential of this meter got to
joe_zyeah
tgeekybut like I said, at this point, all the other ranges mostly seem to work
tgeekythey all work, and I get completely stable 5.5 digit readings
tgeekyeven though they are not accurate
joe_zyep
tgeeky(which begs the question about which of Q110 through Q113 could possibly be damaged, as they are used in pretty much all ranges
tgeekyjoe_z: the thing really is that we're going from a place where there's a lot of available potential (measuring AC or DC voltages) to a place where all of the potential comes from this circuit
joe_zyeah
tgeekyso any very slight damages can be much more important
tgeekyok, be home in about 10 min. thanks for all the help
Brisancecutting off power to an opamp to mute audio through is a bad idea?
tgeekyBrisance: very
Brisancewhy exactly though?
BrisanceI thought it wouldnt be a good idea either but couldnt come up with a reason
tgeekyBrisance: i would just be making stuff up, my answer was sort of a very quick educated guess, but I'd say: for one what will result (at least momentarily) is whatever noise is available picked up by the opamp
tgeekyand if it's in feedback, that could become awful quickly
password2also , the inputs are limited to the supply voltage
tgeekyanother, for the other way around: when you suddenly turn it on
joe_ztgeeky, well, I think I need to stop this for now, but if you have specific questions or need to bounce ideas, feel free to ask
tgeekyjoe_z: ok
tgeekyjoe_z: conversely if you have specific measurements you want to see already, let me know
Brisancewell pops I was aware and would have alleviated them with bypass caps
tgeekyBrisance: i would think that you could check some of the common TDS amplifiers which might have fully explained circuits
tgeekyand see what they do
tgeekyi really have to leave (I don't have to, but I won't get paid anymore for staying, so...)
Brisanceso JFETs on all the 10 channels it is
tgeekyBrisance: this seems like something you could pretty much just test, given you have some speakers you don't mind blowing (or you have dummy loads in place of speakers, and you just scope it)
Brisancetgeeky: true, I probably should
BrisanceI could mute with a dpdt switch too, but I really want to use these awesome momentaries with backlight and all
Brisancehttps://www.ebay.com/itm/Square-Shape-LED-Illuminated-Push-Button-DC-12V-Switch-for-Contactor-Green-/182589370412?hash=item2a832cb02c:g:wZkAAOSwx2dYIwLw
Brisancejust lookat em
jaggzif I have a raid mirror (two drive), take one drive out, and put it back in a year later.. does it timestamp it so it knows to rebuild over the right one?
jaggzhow's that work?
joe_zjaggz, that's not something standardized
joe_zand also not at all how RAID is supposed to be used
joe_zI would consider that to be implementation specific
jaggzlol
jaggzI don't know how to make anything useful out of your comments :)
e36freakhow about "don't do that"
e36freakor "for the love of god, why"
tgeekyjaggz: I think he means, it's decided using software and so it depeneds on what the software does
tgeekyjaggz: I'd guess that it uses write counters and not timestamps, as time could be changed/spoofed and could drift
joe_zjaggz, my point is that some programmer decided how it was done, once upon a time
joe_zso who knows what it did/does/will do
joe_zit's not specced somewhere, so you shouldn't rely on the behavior
tgeekyjoe_z: and, as for his other comment, he means: as soon as you remove one drive from a RAID mirror, it's degraded
tgeekyand it's essentially recovery to decide what to do next, not normal operation
jaggzintel rapid storage manager
tgeekyjaggz: well, the softwer we speak of is on the RAID chip or card or whatever
tgeekythe storage manager just sort of manipulates that
jaggzah
tgeekyjaggz: but think of the question another way: if you are doing what you describe intentionally, then you just destroy the raid array, wipe whichever disk *you* consider not needed, and recreated it with the other disk first
jaggzyeah.. I should wipe out the raid metadata to make sure
jaggzthey stick that place usually at the last 2 or 10mb of the drive I've found
jaggzbut that might vary too
jaggzAND, when we got new drives (2.7tb drives), I just copied over the 1tb drive data, so the raid array is still 1tb (and the os still sees it as 1tb)
tgeekysounds like software raid, too
jaggzand that likely means the meta data is at 1tb in, somewhere.
tgeekywhich is... okay-ish
jaggzyeah it's just the motherboard supported "fake raid" stuff
tgeekyjaggz: it sounds like you want to use a pool of JBOD
jaggzit's something we've found useful for our personal desktop systems at home
tgeeky(not the same thing, but) i got bitten by RAID0 once in my life
tgeekynever again
jaggzyeah.. no
jaggzmirroring :)
jaggzjust raid 1
jaggzit's saved us multiple times now
jaggzso.. well worth it.
joe_zACTION keeps good backups
joe_zweekly backups, two separate independent backups
joe_zbackups to an offsite tape when I have the chance
jaggzthis 16gb usb stick, formatted for debian boot, shows as 416kb in windows..
jaggzthe disk manager area shows 16gb unallocated but doesn't give me options to partition it (I don't think you really partition usb sticks anyway usually do ya?)
joe_zjaggz, sounds like an EFI part maybe?
joe_zjust enough to hold EFI boot files
jaggzjoe_z, yeah, exactly.. there's an efi dir
jaggzmaybe using diskpart will fix it
jaggzhttps://superuser.com/questions/752874/16-gb-usb-flash-drive-capacity-down-to-938-mb
joe_zthe rest is probably a CD file system
joe_zand yes, repartitioning is the correct course of action if you want to use it for file storage again
joe_zUSB drive are not required to have partitions on them, but they can, in windows
joe_zalthough you probably want to put an MBR style partition table on it, GUID won't work so well with older systems
jaggzit seems kinda dumb that diskmanager doesn't let you do it.. but anyway.. diskpart worked
jaggzit's formatting it now
jaggzmy wife said some dirs seemed messed up.. maybe having fs errors.. so I wanted to make a recovery usb before doing fs repair
jaggznever made a win7 recovery usb stick before.. should be fun.
jaggz(sarcasm)
jaggz(on the "fun" part)
DocScrutinizer05when it's a "floppy format" than there's no partition table and thus no way partitionmanager could use / format the remaining "free" space
DocScrutinizer05err diskmanager
SmokinGruntsjaggz, where'd you buy that drive?
SmokinGruntsdepending on that, this may be an interesting read: https://www.raymond.cc/blog/test-and-detect-fake-or-counterfeit-usb-flash-drives-bought-from-ebay-with-h2testw/
DocScrutinizer05that's however not suggested by any of the symptoms
tawrsandisk fit usb3.0
tawrbest drives around!
DocScrutinizer05symptom of a fake USB storage frequently is the other way around: claims 16GB, corrupts filesystem after writing 512MB of data
SmokinGruntsmy bad, I got lazy and didn't catch up on the chatlog :o :(
Duckleeasy way to avoid fakes. Stick to trusted stores
tgeekynonsense
DuckleMan I love the JBOD acronym
tgeekythe clear solution is random or exhaustive testing, then format, then use
Duckleheh
Duckleno thanks :P
DuckleI just want it to work
tgeekyi mean to say: if you purchase a usb key, you should use a program that will test write and check for readbacks, both random addresses it claims to support, and then generate a large enough file and make sure 100% of it matches
tgeekythen it's good to go
DuckleI
DuckleI'm cynical, but not that cynical :)
Duckleif I had issues with the drive, sure
tgeekyclearly not synical enough
tgeekycynical :o
tgeekyyeah i guess
Ducklebut if it works as expected, then meh I'm good :P
tgeekynot having enough space is kind of the least scary of a whole tree of possibilites for what it could do
DuckleI guess that runs the risk of going "shit my 14 days of return has run it's course, and where the hell is the reciept"
Drakoniteh2testw
Duckleh5testOK
Drakoniteh2testw is a program that tests memory cards and flash drives
Drakonitesome of the more reputable sellers on the shadier places will flat out say to run it on the stuff they send you, and some of the marketplaces will ask for the h2testw output if you claim a memory card is faulty
SmokinGruntsyup, nobody reads my links :(
DrakoniteACTION just got here
SmokinGrunts https://www.raymond.cc/blog/test-and-detect-fake-or-counterfeit-usb-flash-drives-bought-from-ebay-with-h2testw/
Drakoniteah
DrakoniteI have a fake microsd that I wish I could reprogram to show it's actual capacity and then use it for a couple things I just need a small bit of storage for
tgeekyDrakonite: depending on what exactly is wrong with it, that may not ever work. If the drive is systematically bad (manufacturing defect) then every single time you make a write of any size, it could result in sector invalidation
tgeekymaybe. maybe you could sort of get to a stable size
password8seems like a lot of trouble to just store a few files
password8especially given prices of uSD
HrdwrBoByeah
HrdwrBoBchuck it
HrdwrBoBget another one from literally the supermarket
password8if you just want to play around with reprogramming , good luck
password8but if the only goal is to get something workable , then buy a new one , imho
Drakonitehence why I haven't bothered putting effort in to it
DrakoniteI have a couple use cases where I only need <1MB, and it appears to be one of the fakes where it's a small bit of storage that is remapped to repeat over the claimed range
jsoftInfinate storage!
DrakoniteI'd be more interested in being to write arbitrary code to the built in controller, but that seems like even more work and even less likely
jsoftI am not hearing a winning attitude here, Drakonite
jsoft;)
jsoftWhat for dinner, I ponder
password8is it the firmware thats hacked?
password8or some kind of circuit mods
Drakonitepassword8, it's a sealed microsd card, so hard to tell :P
Drakonitebut my understanding of these fakes from what I've read is that it's a firmware hack
password8oh sorry , my mind went to usb
password8all the days of 6 hours sleep are heaping up
password8there is not enough din rail devices in the world
password8is there any industry things that are similar to din rail?
jaggzwhat's worse is when it shows as 32gb, but it's just 1mb using hardware lossless fractal compression, so it's really slow.
password8for mounting electronics and such
musicsucksis there something like a fuse that resets in time?
HrdwrBoByes
jaggzmusicsucks, of course
HrdwrBoBhttps://www.google.com.au/search?safe=off&ei=R7H6WbOFCcTo0AT68IHwCw&q=auto+reset+circuit+breaker
jaggzhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resettable_fuse
tawrjaggz: !
jaggztawr, wassawp
jaggz:)
tawrhow ya doin' dude
jsoftI do think it may in fact be operation make an i2c oled display work
musicsucksjaggz is there any way to identify them on a pcb?
musicsucks(preferably visually)
jaggznc
Ducklesup nerds
Duckleplease validate my existence
CasperACTION looks at jaggz 
zap0ACTION punches Duckle in the spleen
Duckleowie, ooof ouch
Casperzap0: ! c'mon!
Casperatleast use a baseball bat!
zap0ACTION cums on
Ducklealu plz
Caspergood ol' woodNnail?
Ducklespending money hurst
Ducklehurts too
slushpuppyHi, I got a bt module from nordic and I am looking to implement a voltage sensor using one of their comparators. The max voltage tol for that pin is 3.3v and I am thinking of implementing an overvoltage protection using a zener diode and npn transistor. How do I decide the tol for the pin, would 3.5v zener do the job?
DocScrutinizer05((<tgeeky> not having enough space is kind of the least scary)) well no, the drive's address space wraps around and you're overwriting your own older files when you fill up with more than the physically available space
Duckleslushpuppy: what's the max expected voltage on that pin?
slushpuppyit will be 12v stepped down to 3v using resistor divider
Duckleslushpuppy: https://www.digikey.com/en/articles/techzone/2012/apr/protecting-inputs-in-digital-electronics
slushpuppyThank you!
Ducklelooks like a good article from a quick glance
slushpuppythe power source is car battery so I am kinda worried about alternator spikes
Duckleahh, makes sense
Duckleslushpuppy: Spec eveything for 15v anyways
Ducklebecause I've seen that on quite a few cars
slushpuppyAhhh good point. Thank you
jsoftYay
jsofti2c oled doing things
joe_zslushpuppy automotive systems can have all kinds of particularly nasty transients
jsoftThis obviously calls for burbons and snacks
jhardsup
Casperslushpuppy: car? expect over 20-30V peaks
jhardwhy is nickserv not complaining?
joe_zCasper, more even
JoeLlamajoe_z that's why automotive ICs and components tend to have very robust features including when the battery is hooked up backwards. I design a lot of my systems using automotive ICs and stuff
Casperjoe_z: under normal working condition I should have said :D
JoeLlamaI *love* automotive ICs (:
joe_zCasper, and like *I* said, more even
joe_z:)
DuckleJoeLlama: Untill you check the price :P
joe_zJoeLlama, most common feature is increased temperature range
slushpuppyOh crap, I forgot about that aspect
DuckleJoeLlama: and vibration resistance
joe_zvery often operation at 150C junction temperatures, sometimes 175C
JoeLlamaI used to design with this kludgy processor the 80C196KC which is relatively slow... some instructions take 44 clock cycles but one of my clients accidentally hooked up power to the device backwards and left it for an hour. It got super hot. But after they disconnected it an hooked the power up to it correctly after it cooled down it worked like a champ :)
JoeLlamathe 80C196KC is used in a lot of automotive applications
JoeLlamaoh yeah Duckle vibration too :)
joe_zslushpuppy, good reading: http://www.fordemc.com/docs/requirements.htm
joe_zthese are just some of the electrical things you can expect to see in a car
slushpuppyThank you, i'll read up on that
JoeLlamaoOo I read too
JoeLlama(moo)
slushpuppyfor reverse polarity protection, what recommendations would u guys suggest?
joe_zslushpuppy, how much current?
joe_zdoes it have to operate at very low voltage? cranking conditions can go as low as 6V on a nearly-dead battery
joe_znormally they just use a series diode
slushpuppyyeah, this is a bluetooth module :(
JoeLlamathey have better protection from reverse current now using FETs etc
joe_zif you have higher current requirements, a so-called 'synchronous rectifier' built from a P-fet
joe_zlower loss, less voltage drop, so less heat
n2Holy shit
slushpuppynordic nrf52 series
zigggggyACTION drinks slushpuppy
n2The CA3080 is still being produced
JoeLlamawhat I do in my designs is use a diode that shorts power in the reverse direction and it takes out a fuse
JoeLlamalike a schottkey diode
slushpuppyoki
joe_zJoeLlama, that's not uncommon, but you rely on the fuse blowing fast enough
JoeLlamaand put a fuse in series with the circuit
JoeLlamayup well the diode clamps pretty good so
joe_zJoeLlama, if this is automotive, you should consider using a TVS diode of some sort
joe_zkill two birds with one stone
JoeLlamayup
JoeLlamaI use TVS on busses
joe_ztake care of absorbing some higher voltage transients, and accomplish the same thing
JoeLlamayeah trannsients
joe_zthough you have to watch out, some of those transients are a lot of energy, long time constant
joe_zcentral load dump is nasty, but most cars now have integrated central load dump protection into the alternator, clamping voltage to 30V or so
JoeLlamayup
JoeLlamaTVS is fast
joe_zbefore, you could get spikes of 60V or higher on commercial vehicles, lasting for fairly long time periods
slushpuppyi would need a huge ass capacitor for that don't i?
joe_zTVS can take an amazing amount of power, for a very short time
JoeLlamayup
joe_zslushpuppy, well it's a bit complicated
joe_zslushpuppy, if this is just for yourself, it may not be worth the engineering effort to bother with protection against all these transients
JoeLlamamany years ago when TVS technology was very new or at least this one product was new and designed to be put on computer busses I tried to get samples from the company for my prototype and they refused to send them to me saying they thought I was a corporate spy trying to steel the product design (true)
JoeLlamaand that was flat out weird
Ducklethey must've thought highly of you
Ducklenice
JoeLlamaheh well I had a lot of questions about it
JoeLlamathey got suspiccious
Ducklehah
JoeLlamaweird
slushpuppyjoe_z, proof of concept atm but it will see life as a commercial product
JoeLlamathis was back in like 2003
joe_zslushpuppy, you'd better put some work into it in that case
joe_zif you want good reliability
slushpuppyroger
Ducklethe only difference between nerds and spies is one is getting paid to do it.
JoeLlamaI saw their product in like EE mag or something it was brand new not released yet
joe_zslushpuppy, on the other hand, consider this is one of the reasons the original part often costs more than an aftermarket device
slushpuppyreliability basically
joe_zthe OE suppliers are required to go to lengths to make sure the vehicle parts will last in an automotive environment, the aftermarket parts aren't required to prove it
joe_zbut some simple things are just good practice
slushpuppyso I'd imagine those parts and systems coming out of say.. china arn't that robust?
joe_zreverse battery protection is good, operation up to 16V, or even higher is good, operation down to 8-10V...
joe_zsuppression or otherwise the durability to withstand various transient pulses is good
slushpuppyis there a way I can do such tests in a controlled environment?
joe_zand keep in mind cars get hot
joe_zslushpuppy, yes, testing is how you confirm these things
joe_zbut testing is...
joe_zoften not cheap
slushpuppyyeah
slushpuppyhmm
joe_zthe equipment to test, even if you were to build it yourself, could cost hundreds of dollars for a modest test lab
joe_zif you wanted to go all out, and run a full set of tests, you'd be in the hole $100k's
joe_zso, depends how large scale this would be
slushpuppyhmmm
slushpuppywell this will be an aftermarket solution
joe_zI gathered as much
joe_zOE products generally come from companies who have experience in this already :)
slushpuppyhehe :p
n2Holy fucking shit
n2Those "life extension" vendors for older ICs
n2...know how much they have to charge, eh?
n2$74 for a single transconductance amplifier
n2Holy fucking shit :P
joe_zn2, well, if profit optimization determines that's the right price...
n2joe_z, sure, it's intended to price gouge people who /have/ to replace it 1:1
joe_zyep
n2If you can't just drop in an LM13700
n2We've got a CA3080 for you, at an insane price
joe_zthey would say, at a price which is more reasonable than full system replacement :)
n274 dollars for 8 transistors and 8 diode-connected transistors...
n2In a DIP8
n2:P
Ducklen2: I can't imagine the demand is that high for such a product, so the price makes sense
n2What's really stupid, Duckle, is
n2That there is quite a bit of demand
DuckleI doubt it's malicious price gouging, rather just an expensive product
n2But the new-old stock stuff is much cheaper
n2It's not expensive by its nature :P
n2When Intersil made it, it cost a few dollars
n2Look at the LM13700, not exactly insanely expensive :P
Ducklewhen intersil made it it was probably in a lot higher quantities :P
n2Sure
n2But, again
n2The new-old stock is much cheaper
n2So why then market it at all
n2:P
Ducklegreat question :)
n2There is an aspect of price gouging to it
n2It's the same with orphan pharmaceuticals
n2Yeah, not a lot of patients
n2But it's strange you have to increase the price by 500%
n2Even though it was making a profit before
n2:P
Duckleright, that is price gouging
Ducklethe epi-pen being a great example
n2That, for instance, too
DuckleThey went too far though. Bam suddenly making a competing problem was financially viable
Duckle10$ vs 600
n2See
Duckles/problem/product
n2That is price gouging because the cost of production does not tally with the new price, at all
n2Same with that IC :P
tgeekyjoe_z: if I'm probing the gate voltages of Q110-Q113, what do I want to ground clip on? I tried U101 pin 2 (which is the voltage of the shield), which seemed OK, voltages were basically 0V when on, -12V when off
Ducklen2: Not really, in this case (epi-pen) they increased the price after already having sold it at a lower price
n2Same being the case here :P
Ducklethere was no stop in production, no tons of new products
joe_ztgeeky, ground clip?
n2Well, these guys got the rights from Intersil
Ducklethey were producing them, and then decided to increase the price anyways
tgeekyjoe_z: but I think i want to probe against the source pins as ground, which would be U102 pin 3 (with 200k), the other side of the resistor (200k resistor), or U102 pin 6
n2The moment Intersil stopped producing them
joe_zwell hopefully not actual earth ground
tgeekyjoe_z: of the osciloscope probe
n2Then they made it for a while at the original price point
n2And then they increased it to $75
Ducklen2: No stop in production? No moving to a smaller production node?
joe_ztgeeky, is that a good idea? the scope is not isolated. Is the meter?
tgeekyjoe_z: well, I can float the oscilloscope if I want to, and the scope DUT is under an isolation transformer (not that it matters here, I think)
n2Duckle, analog ICs don't need small sizes
n2Actually, quite the contrary :P
Duckleif they have to keep around a fab lab for an antiquated size, then that could be expensive
n2It's a bipolar transistor product
n2They need to be big :P
tgeekyjoe_z: the scope is also on an isolation transformer, but ground is still attached (for safety, and because USB is also attached so I have to unhook both to truly float it
n2Well, that is literally what they do
Duckleif they can use the line for other products, then yeah. that's not a problem
joe_ztgeeky, OK then, in that case ideally you would measure between gate and source of the FET
n2Duckle, https://www.rocelec.com
n2What is egregious is their sudden price increase
n2Without any change :P
n2In the product itself
joe_zbut something has to be floating
Ducklehmm
tgeekyjoe_z: when I measured directly on the source pin (which is on the other side of the 200k resistor), there was a lot of oscillation in there
Ducklen2: could also be a "fuck you stop buying this" price hike
Ducklewhat is the chip used for?
n2It's an operational transconductance amplifier
n2So a broad range of stuff
Ducklegotcha
Duckleno suitable replacements?
Ducklemaybe I'm just too used to ICs getting EoL and having to move to a new part
n2Sure
Ducklewhere 10 years is amazing
n2Duckle, analog ICs are different :
n2:P
n2There are replacements as such
Ducklegotcha
n2But they are somewhat different
DuckleI don't spend much time in analog. It's all over the place... literally :P
n2In general, pure analog ICs don't move to new smaller processes
n2Because they don't gain anything from it
Duckleheh
Ducklegain
n2They aren't switching from cutoff to saturation
n2So the smaller capacitances of a smaller process is meh
n2On the other hand, a smaller process would ruin their current handling capability :P
n2Which is why integrated BJTs need to be as big as possible for performance
n2Not as small :P
DuckleWhat about density? They don't tend to have that many trannies in there?
n2No
n2At most 50
Ducklehuh. interesting
Duckleso all of the work is in getting the actual silicon fab right
n2With the larger sizes, tolerances for that are also looser than digital CMOS processes
n2Of course, CMOS analog ICs exist
n2But they're, again, in a muuuuch larger process size
n2Which is why you come up with things like BiCMOS
n2So you can make the big, analog BJTs side-by-side with digital CMOS
n2:P
n2For radio frequency stuff (cell modems, WiFi etc)
joe_ztgeeky, what about the drains of the JFETs
joe_zsame 'noise' signal on one perhaps?
n2Your small digital CMOS stuff can't handle a milliwatt of output power
n2So you need bigger, beefier transistors, ideally BJTs for that
Ducklen2: Speaking of RF, I stumbled over this really cool doc yesterday: https://cdn.intechopen.com/pdfs-wm/43413.pdf
n2:P
Duckleyou mentioned you liked to read such docs, and that one is really neat :)
n2Interesting problem
tgeekyjoe_z: so the most sane looking result so far without floating the scope (which I don't want to do primarily because then I can't use my good screen capture technique) is when the ground clip is attached to U102 pin 3
tgeeky)
tgeekyjoe_z: I'm going to float it anyway just to see what it looks like
joe_ztgeeky, you realize you're grounding that op-amp input though?
tgeekyjoe_z: the noise is suspiciously like sinusoidal on top of the signal, so it looks like some sort of AC ripple coupled
tgeekyjoe_z: yeah, I don't care about the measurement, just the vias voltages
tgeekybias*
tgeekyjoe_z: and how they behave, relative in one configuration and another
joe_zwell by affecting U102, you affect U101, which provides the bias when the JFETs aren't off
tgeekyoh, well my original setup was to just probe U101B pin 2
tgeekythat also looked sane
tgeekybut I thought U101 pin 2 went to the base of Q114 which is the guard voltage
tgeeky... and therefore also the bias voltage?
joe_zyes, it does
tgeeky(through Q114)?
tgeekyjoe_z: in any case, it's a cool picture
joe_zthe purpose of U101B, in combination with U102 is to sense the source voltage, and provide the bias voltage at the same voltage as the source of the JFETs
joe_zeffectively causing the 'on' bias to follow the JFET sources
tgeekyin that scenario, what sets the original source voltages?
joe_ztgeeky, your inputs
joe_zthe other sides of the JFETs
joe_ztwo of which come from the V-sense inputs, the other two...
joe_za somewhat more complicated question
tgeekyheh
tgeekyone sec, let me take a few screenshots just to get an idea of what i'm looking at
tgeekyjoe_z: if i understand what i'm seeing correctly, it looks like the jfets are turned further off when the signal path is looking at the voltage reference
tgeekyjoe_z: grr, this is also where the 4v for the ohms measurement is put in (or -4 volts) so the ohms picture is off-scale because i didn't set this up right
jsoftlol factor 2
Purecdoes anyone know if you could modify the output of a cool white led strip to become warm white? that way i could get the benefit of both colors?
Purecif the led strip was rgb, is it possible to output specific rgb to output a warm white color?
Drakoniteno to the former; it's a function of the phosphor of the LED
SmokinGruntspurec you could put it in liquid nitrogen
tgeekyjoe_z: ok, here's the album with an example picture and the VDC ranges
tgeekyhttps://imgur.com/a/tGEYB
SmokinGruntshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qgPhNHJPB8
electrobotSmokinGrunts just linked to Orange LED changes color when cooled by Liquid Nitrogen to -196°C - YouTube
SmokinGruntsTHANKS BOT!
tgeekygood bot
DrakoniteACTION pets the bot
PurecDrakonite, would the latter work?
DrakonitePurec, potentially. RGB LEDs don't necessarily have the best white, as it's a factor of the R G and B mixing.
tgeekyjoe_z: in case this totally doesn't make sense, this follows pretty much exactly with what the manual says about the measurement cycle, except V_signal is put in there multiple times
tgeekyjoe_z: which i'm sure is normal
Drakonitethere are LED strips that are a mix of warm white and cool white LEDs, but don't see them often
PurecDrakonite, yeah i'd just like to make it so i could switch between the two depending on the time of the day
joe_ztgeeky, well the waveforms look generally correct to be controlling the JFETs
tgeekyjoe_z: but wait
tgeekyhttps://imgur.com/a/XBa0E
tgeekyjoe_z: same explanation picture, but followed by ohms picture
tgeekyjoe_z: i agree though, generally it looks OK
DrakonitePurec, I thought about this a bit a few weeks ago for lighting my desk, and my conclusion was the best option if I wanted to mix both was to get two short LED strips, one cool white, one warm white
tgeekyjoe_z: so the range which *doesn't* work right (as far as displaying the right values), the 200 ohm range, looks correct here;
tgeekyjoe_z: the range which worked last night, has a much bigger drop on turn-off
tgeekyjoe_z: *but* the input is shorted, so that represents a valid measurement for the 200 ohm range, and an OL for all the other ranges
tgeekyjoe_z: and furthermore, I can make a video of this if you'd like, but if you leave the inputs open, the pinch-off of the JFETs slowly (or quickly) rises up
DrakonitePurec, like I said, there are strips that are a mix of both... I've seen someone on youtube using them, but I haven't seen them for sale on places like aliexpress (though haven't looked too much)
PurecDrakonite, sounds like an option, a pretty good one for accurate lighting. but I'm trying to minimize costs.
Pureci'll look for the hybrid led strips
joe_ztgeeky, I don't exactly remember...
joe_zdo you get correct measurements outside of ohms mode?
tgeekyjoe_z: yep
joe_zOK, stable measurements *in* ohms mode?
joe_zor no?
tgeekynope, i can try again tonight, but until I did the oscilloscope probe trick thing, I got random measurements on all ranges except the smallest, where I get OL
DrakonitePurec, I get the impression two short strips could be found cheaper than the hybrid strips, though if you find them let me know
Purecwow $128 for less than half a metre
joe_zwell there's got to be something that ohms mode uses that nothing else does
Purecforget that, yeah probably getting 2 strips is cheaper
tgeekyjoe_z: as far as these jfets go, nope
acetolineI just went downstairs and my flatmates were talking. The girl said she was astonished that her friend married an ugly guy. The guy flatmate was talking about how all Chinese people look the same.
acetolineI had a sudden realization: Holy crap, my flatmates are horrible people.
tgeekyjoe_z: i mean i can give you the list for troubleshooting mode, but yeah, all the DCV ranges alone will use all of the jfets
joe_zthe problem is likely elsewhere then
tgeekyjoe_z: let me get the animated thing up, just because I like making these (and they will be good to post later)
tgeekyjoe_z: i wanted to pause before I did this, so i can offset these correctly
tgeekyjoe_z: they do really drift
tgeekylike something is really not connected
Tulitomaattithermal grease or thermal two sided tape when.... the surface might have some areas that are recessed by half a millimeter or so? (for heatsink attachment over large areas)
joe_ztgeeky, might that be normal behavior though?
joe_zthe source terminals of the JFETs *is* basically floating
tgeekyjoe_z: it could be. the only thing I am trying to make sense of for sure, is the difference between lowest ohms range (which never worked, even with the trick) and the other ohms ranges
tgeekyjoe_z: aye, but it's still floating in the case of the low ohms range, just that the divider network is low enough perhaps to stabilize things: but why is the *stabalized* one the one that didn't read anything
tgeekyjoe_z: sec, thanks for helping so much though and putting up with this stuff
jaggzall these chinese phones are taking the jobs of copper wiretap professionals!
password8how high pressure is commonly in refrigerators?
password840Bar?
acetolinewtf? no way
acetoline40 bar in a fridge, lol
password8well I'm fuckinbg sorry i dont know
password8100bar?
acetolinethe pressure in most of the circuit is pretty low
password8whats the peak
acetolinethe highest pressure is a tiny part just after the compressor
password8ie before the caplary tube
acetolinewhich afaik is 30 bar at most
password8thats not a big difference to what i guessed at first
acetolinethis is just a very small region though
password8is that compared to ambient or to the system
password8acetoline: no
password8the whole heat radiator is at that same pressure
password8its compressor , outside heatexchanger , capillary tube , internal heatexchanger
password8unles you are doing some weird 2 fluid system
EinPunktthe guys from yesterday morning...
EinPunkti have clear the led driver problem
password8there were guys yesterday?
EinPunktpass i dont remember the nicks :P
_abc_<aside>fun: Skynet spelled backwards is Tenyx. TWENEX (old os, pre unix) reference?
_abc_Well Tenykx
_abc_*s
_abc_EinPunkt: the guys may have been girls.
password8tenyks
EinPunkt_abc_ haha
acetolineit's so frustrating when your project is 99% complete and is waiting on a part from China to arrive
password8_abc_: i want to see that , lol
_abc_Has anyone here got a standing desk workstation? Treadmill or not? Or bicycle?! http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-5041221/Women-walk-EIGHT-miles-day-work.html - I am not a girl but I need such a thing. My bum does not like 10 hours of sitting.
EinPunktacetoline i know you pain :)
_abc_acetoline: buy from somewhere where they deliver in 24hrs then?
_abc_Or plan without strange parts?
password8wow , she must walk very slowly
acetolineEinPunkt: Do you mean to say "I know you, pain"?
_abc_I have changed designs up to 10 times in less than a week just to avoid ordering anything.
EinPunkt_abc_ them you pay 300%++
acetolineEinPunkt: it is true that I am Pain.
acetolineKnow Me.
_abc_EinPunkt: not really. 200% is about max, and it's usually much less.
acetoline_abc_: no luck, it's a special screw-type pot which no one here stores locally.
password8_abc_: I've been tempted to try and modify a desk of mine so it can raise and lower
EinPunktacetoline i mean i know how it feel to wait for some parts if it send from china
_abc_acetoline: your mistake, then
EinPunkt_abc_ depense of the part
acetoline_abc_: unlike you lucky fucking bastard, I don't like in the USA or anywhere where there's lot of electronics dealers.
acetolineso wipe that smug smile off your face
acetolinelive*
EinPunktif i buy in germany a simple step down module with cv cc
_abc_password8: yes there are some standing workstations based on adjustable height workspaces. I was thinking: hack! take a large solid box of the appropriate height, place on desktop, put laptop and whatnot on top. Try if it works.
EinPunkti will pay arround 10-12e
EinPunktthe same part from china 2e
_abc_acetoline: I live in Eastern Europe.
_abc_For now.
acetolinewhich part of Eastern Europe?
password8i was thinking some springloaded sciccor jack like movement
_abc_acetoline: the part where there are still walk in electronics stores and working factories making electronics for Bosch, VW etc
password8where if you pull the desk up the sciccor straightens and locks
password8then you have a lever to pull it back
password8i mean how much height difference are there?
acetoline_abc_: Czech Republic? Moldova? etc.
acetolineThere's lots of variation in eastern Europe.
_abc_password8: yes there is such a thin and one thing to try is to score a scissoring 'fishing chair', and connect it to a MDF plate on one side with some lock mechanism like the 'comb' used by ironingd desks.
_abc_acetoline: Why do you care so much.
_abc_One of them. They are the same.
_abc_More or less, from this pov.
acetolinethey aren't.
acetolineI live in NZ.
acetolineNZ is way more remote than any place you live in.
_abc_They are. Czech has something called soselectronic, Poland has tme.eu, etc.
_abc_There is something evereywhere.
acetolineYeah no.
_abc_acetoline: Design with sheep and sheep products?
_abc_(and volcanic products)
_abc_Yeah I can understand your problem now.
password8_abc_: have you seen the gian ferris wheel?
_abc_I thought you are in France.
acetolineWe have a population of less than many cities and we are surrounded with 3000 km of ocean.
_abc_acetoline: I know.
password8on the subject of walking at work , i already did a few km today
password8eh , hamster wheel
_abc_Key insight from dm article "In most models the desk and treadmill don?t actually touch ? the desk frame slots around the treadmill base ? stopping vibration from the machine transferring to the desk."
password8i was thinking ferret , wheel , ferris wheel
rephlexie_abc_, friend switched to a standing desk for a year, fixed her back issues but also led to spider viens or something like that.
_abc_rephlexie: yes I can see that coming.
acetolineWe have two brick-and-mortar electronics shops, Jaycar, which marks stuff up 1000% (maybe more, this is not an exaggeration), and surplustronics, which is literally just one small shop in Auckland.
acetolineand it's probably going to close soon
password8_abc_:must have taken them loads of research to discover that :D
acetolinelast time I was there, the owner looked drunk and not in good health
password8https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7FioTdZaEk
electrobotpassword8 just linked to Hamster Wheel Standing Desk - YouTube
p0g0aceto
p0g0eh
_abc_password8: it only takes 5 minutes. For the same reason munching something while doing computer work must be restricted to non crunchy munchies. Otherwise the text on the screen becomes jumpy and error rate increases.
p0g0acetoline: when I leved in NZ, pre internet, it was a very isolated place... Still I think you may not get how isolated other nations (or states) are, even without an ocean.
password8well , that and typing
p0g0*lived
password8my sitting desk is too low at work
acetolinep0g0: it's not that isolated culturally. It's part of the anglosphere. There's lots of commercial relationships with other countries. It is however isolated in terms of being able to buy niche goods.
_abc_Just for measure, bar counters are about the exact right height for working desks, stand-up...
p0g0_abc_: I have no good solution to the 10 hours at a stretch in a chair, but don't do it. Change desks, take walks, stand, sit, change keyboards... they all help, but I never found anything that made the 10-16 hour days comfortable.
_abc_I fidget all the time (with some learned skill) and do not really sit more than 2 hours in a stretch.
_abc_Will try the box on desk thing when I clean my desk (i.e. when hell freezes over + 5 days)
_abc_No, really, I need to do this.
p0g0acetoline: yep, I could sell my TI calculator in NZ for 3x what I paid for it, NZ taxed them so heavily, the 3x was a good price.
_abc_p0g0: Yes, that's another thing about isolated nations. Some isolate themselves. Very high taxes on commodity goods is one way.
p0g0_abc_: I, literally, made 4 desks, all different heights, and would move from one to the next,
acetolinep0g0: yep that sounds about right.
password8change keyboards?
acetolinebtw I love NZ and wouldn't want to live any other place at the moment. The only downside is less access to things that other countries have.
password8wll is this about getting some excercise or comfort?
_abc_p0g0: low height rectangular coffee table sounds great to try to put on normal desk as 'riser'
norkleLOL NZ
Flea86acetoline: Apart from ultrafast broadband, ofc ;)
norklepiss in there faces
_abc_p0g0: instead of 4 different desks. Also architect's / carpenter's 'A' desk legs can be adjusted in height.
p0g0password8: carpal tunnel issues- differerent keyboards help a little.
acetolineFlea86: hah.
jsoftHmmm. This u8glib is quite ok
_abc_Flea86: NZ has ultrafast bb?
p0g0_abc_ well, the array of desks takes no time to set up, just get up from one and move to the next.
_abc_Flea86: no doubt sheep based? 3000km of sat link will add more than "a little" latency
acetolineFlea86: Jacinda Ardern is apparently the world's 38th most powerful woman, according to Forbes.
jsoft_abc_, no
jsoftacetoline, what a load of shit
_abc_p0g0: yes but 4 desks out of which 3 probably custom made is a lot of money and a lot of work
acetoline_abc_: are we really going there? In a battle of Eastern European vs Sheep jokes, do you really think the Sheep jokes will win? ;)
p0g0_abc_: yep, and that work is good for you and relieves back pain...
jsoftacetoline, where are you ?
_abc_Of course not, we will win all the battles.
p0g0acetoline: there are some very good sheep jokes...
_abc_acetoline: what is your latency to usa or europe?
_abc_p0g0: jokes about girlfriends are not okay
jsoft_abc_, 50ms to google.com
p0g0acetoline: but my favorite experience with sheep in NZ was the three farm boys that flew one from a giant kite for about 12 hours.
_abc_jsoft: that's an appliance sitting in an isp's rack near you
_abc_jsoft: try something like nyt.com
p0g0Nothing like seeing a ewe at 200m on a bit of twine...
acetoline_abc_: shouldn't you be going back to your plumbing?
jsoft_abc_, 40ms
_abc_acetoline: you are confusing me with Poles
jsoft_abc_, correction, 30ms
acetolinewell without telling me where you're from I'm just going to assume you're Polish.
p0g0_abc_: nah, we still wonder about the H2S
_abc_jsoft: if mtr or traceroute says that I bow to your speeds
_abc_p0g0: that decreased a lot after the discussion here.
_abc_And my sense of smell has started recovering
p0g0_abc_: it was our fault? Or we talked away the stench?
_abc_But I improved door gaskets and stuff
_abc_p0g0: when you talk about the enemy you scare him
p0g0heh I wish...
jsoft_abc_, yeah, 30ms
p0g0ACTION pings www.google.com @ 28ms
password2is that all?
p0g0NYtimes @ 18.8 ms
password2My average to www.google is currently 13ms , minimum is 7ms
jsoftAre you in the united states of greatness?
p0g0I can ping the NZherald.com @ 68ms
password2jsoft: far from it
password2idk why i get such a good ping , internet is slow here
jsoftShit, thats 30ms for me, and I am in NZ
password2unless google has a server farm hidden away here
p0g0jsoft: I am in one of the poorest counties in the USA, where, by some artful borrowing, my telco has pulled fiber.
password2NZherald.com is like 480ms
p0g0you must be very near some google node then..
password2every 1ms is 300km interms of speed of light , right?
jsoftpassword2, seems legit
p0g0ACTION wades thru an imperial to SI calc and nods.
norkleLOL NZ
norklepiss in there faces
p0g0my god, a troll! Who let that in here? Where are my shepherds, where are my Blue Heelers?
password2fun fact
norkleLOL cult!
password2a ruler measures almost exactly 1ns
p0g0password2: how fun is that, what can you do with a 1ns dwell time?
password2so if you are working with sub 1ns timming diagrams , you can draw them to scale
p0g0ok
password2:D
password2i want a ruler thats marked interms of time
p0g0password2: you have one or more already, most likely, they are called clocks.
password2ACTION phalluses p0g0 on the forehead
p0g0cycloids of revolution, per time...
password2distance!
password2though a linear clock could be novel
p0g0They have those too, called prisms-they project solar time on a wall
p0g0Very nifty when stuck in a wall, the year is projected in color bands that walk along the opposite wall over time.
SmokinGrunts:D
p0g0Newtonian clocks...
password2like this http://www.instructables.com/id/Linear-Clock/
jsoftI must say, these oled displays are the shizzim
jsoftCheers whom ever in here suggested using one
password2i fucking love odd clocks , there are so many dynamic ways to make them
jsoftya what?
jsoftOh
jsoftThat is mighty odd
LuminaxWkI....misread that
TAsnHeya, I wanna get a circuitboard that lets me connect a lipo for charging from 5v (usb) and does the step-up to 5v so I can use a usb device from it (essentially what's in power banks). How would such a circuit be called? Thanks!
Drakonitewhich type of oled, jsoft ?
jsoftDrakonite, some 128 x 64 pixelation one
LuminaxWkI think it's usually in battery management section
LuminaxWkwhat's a LiPo voltage again? 3.6V ?
TAsn3.7
LuminaxWkah, right
password2how much do you want to blow it up :D
LuminaxWklol
TAsnif you are talking to me: not in particular, but I'm open. ;P
LuminaxWkBlow It Up! (tm: Frank Klepacki)
TAsn(I need a smart and safe lipo charger...)
LuminaxWkhmmm... I'd search Element14 for it, but apparently my internet is fucking up right now >_>
Drakoniteeasy route would be grab a 'powerboost' board from adafruit
TAsnI don't know how such a thing is called, that's my problem
LuminaxWkbattery supervisor and monitor IC, battery management, etc etc
LuminaxWkbattery charger IC
LuminaxWkMaxim, Intersil, Linear
TAsnDrakonite, looks like it, except for the " With a built-in battery charger circuit, "
TAsnLuminaxWk, thanks
TAsnah sorry
TAsnI read built-in the battery
TAsnoops
TAsnthis is what I'm looking for \o/
SmokinGruntsI was too much for 'family chan' #ubuntu earlier.
SmokinGruntsACTION shakes his head, slowly
SmokinGruntsnight all!
LuminaxWkhmmm
LuminaxWkI wonder if adafruit and sparkfun have local retailer here
jsoftphhht
LuminaxWkjsoft: did you break wind?
LuminaxWkalso... hmmm....... should I get into business of selling breakout boards ?
LuminaxWka breakout board or a 'shield' for one of the many ESP32's incarnation seems to be a good idea
jsoftLuminaxWk, Are you asking if I dropped my guts?
LuminaxWknevermind, that has come to pass
LuminaxWkanyway, all crude jokes aside? how's the LoRa going?
LuminaxWkI just checked my RN2903A functions and has set up a simple pinging temperature sensors which updates every 20 seconds or so
password2breakout baords for dildos?
LuminaxWkunfortunately, still having problem with making a point-to-point connection
LuminaxWkthinking of driving/riding uptown to one of the registered TheThingsNetwork gateway spot
aibis it possible to connect 4 linear potentiometers in parallel (outer legs to 5V and 0V) and get 4 different linearly controllable voltages on the middle legs? https://i.imgur.com/6D9maj0.png Because sometimes some of my pots are acting like they are logarithmic
password2aib why not?
Drakoniteaib, any chance the pots ARE logarithmic? That's a thing
password2in other words , yes
password2Drakonite: well the answer would remain yes
aibI pulled them out and checked them individually, they are linear. And this is transient behavior, anyhow (the LOG-behaving pots *change*). I think something's wrong with the PCB
Drakonitepassword2, indeed
xihirohow exactly does the trigger in the scope work? Say we have a waveform. The shiny dot is going left-to-right and then retraces back to the left side. Since retracing takes some time, the dot won't be in the same y position it was at the right end of the screen, and so the second waveform won't overlap the first one, correct?
bqIt turns off or deflects off the visible phosphor when it traces back
xihirobq, right, so retracing is not seen on the screen.
bqOh you mean, when it draws over itself again left-to-right?
xihiroyes
bqIt won't trace immediately since it hasn't triggered yet
bqUnless it has
LuminaxWkanalog scope....
bqBut for a sine wave it won't have
LuminaxWkACTION traces back
aibxihiro: even if it took 0 time to retrace, the waveform would still not overlap itself, unless your screen width was a multiple of the wave frequency
bqLuminaxWk, they're beautiful
LuminaxWkthey are
aibperiod*
LuminaxWkhowever, I prefer oscilloscope with storage memory nowadays
bqI am tossing up between making a storage front-end for my analogue or buying a DSO
Drakonitethey are, but DSOs are much more functional
Drakonitebuy a DSO
LuminaxWkI.... fuck... I wanted to quit my current job
password2well for a steady wave it would trigger at teh same time each time , each time it triggers teh x pos is reset
Miyuget a cheap Rigol DSO, unlock the HW features, done :)
LuminaxWkbut my current job have a hacked DSOX2014A T_T
Jan-hihi :)
Jan-ACTION wakes up 
password2if you put the trigger level at the top of the sine you will get lovely glitching
Jan-*yawnstretch*
LuminaxWkACTION prods Jan- 
LuminaxWkooooh.... bell ringing, time to go home
bqI could even fly off the handle and make a fully digital front-end with vector output
Jan-ACTION twitches
Jan-no pokings plz :/
bqsex on a stick!
LuminaxWkdon't go flying off the handle now
LuminaxWkI didn't poke! I prodded!
Jan-ACTION tickles LuminaxWk
Jan-*pounce*
LuminaxWkACTION evades
xihiroaib, ok. I am just looking at it step by step so as to understand how the trigger system works. If we now let this repeat several times, we see a lot of waveforms showing up on the screen intermittently. The trigger works by telling the scope a "threshold" voltage, so as to choose only one of the waveforms, right?
LuminaxWktime to go home ;P buhbye o/
bqI'll probably just cave and buy myself a fully digital scope knowing me
bqThey're cheaper these days anywho
bqEr, cheaper than they were 10 years ago
Jan-bq your name reminds me of a line of integrated circuits made by texas instruments
p0g0g'day Jan-
Jan-that's scary
Jan-I am a nerd
Jan-oh hey pogos.
bqJan-, I'm glad to have turned you on like that
Jan-ACTION scared by own nerdiness
Jan-p0g0, do real aussies actually say "g'day"
p0g0ACTION cues up Dan Hick's "I scare myself"
p0g0yes they do
bqEven we NZers say it
p0g0and the NZrs too
p0g0^
Jan-bq: same thing :D
Jan-ACTION runs
bqOI
bqOIOIOI
Drakonitebq, you can get a 4 ch DSO with reasonably good specs (that become fairly good specs with an easy hack) for <$400 (Rigol 1054z)
bqDrakonite, noted, thanks
aibxihiro: here's how I implemented it: after retrace, do not start drawing immediately but wait until the trigger level is passed with a rising slope. Then start drawing.
bqI'll check availability of Rigols here
aibxihiro: this makes sure the leftmost X coordinate has the Y value of the trigger level
Jan-p0g0: we're trying to persuade our new buddy Mindy to say it
Jan-but she refuses
bqMeeendy
Jan-she says it's "inviting prejudice" :D
bqfwiw, minor note is that a lot of scopes have the trigger direction configurable, aib, xihiro
p0g0Jan-: tell her "that's sheepish!"
xihiroaib, oh, I had actually arrived to that conclusion but forgot about it overnight. Thanks!
^7heoSo are we #gossip now?
Jan-yes.
Jan-everyone start talking.
bqok sure
p0g0Jan-: and, being an accurate fact makes it Not Prejudice...
bqShe'll be telling you to stop pinching her bum at the workplace soon
xihiroaib, yes, I can see that on virtual oscilloscope; there's a ± button
p0g0it's an observation, post facto....
^7heoCan you do that somewhere else? There's no other place for ##electronics
bq"Sexual harassment"
Jan-she also won't drink beer
Jan-which I always thought was second only to oxygen in the requirements of most antipodeans.
p0g0Jan-: now, if you start calling her "a Sheila" you might have a case....
p0g0Jan-: I can see why she might have to flee north...
Jan-she has.
Jan-she's lived in london for 4 years. nearly
Jan-I'm not quite sure why aussies do that
Jan-turn up on your doorstep with a huge backpack asking if they can pitch a tent in your garden
p0g0To catch an extra summer.
p0g0If they time it right.
bqI should look up the equipment in the labs at uni
bqSurely has to be good value for money equipment I should look at
p0g0I, of course, caught an extra winter, and am still looking to get that debt settled.
Jan-where'd you move from/to
bqHmm, Instek GPE-3323, Tektronix AFG 3102, Keysight 34450A, Tektronix TDS2024C
Drakonitebq, the reason I mention the Rigol 1054z is that it's been the bang-for-buck scope for hobbyists for a while now, with the previous great bang-for-buck hobbyist scope being the rigol 1052 (which is the one I have)
DocScrutinizer05ACTION throws a bq27200 at Jan-
Jan-ACTION returns it with a deft backhand
bqDrakonite, Rigol is one of the cheaper brands eh
bqCheaper but still well good for hom use
Drakonitebq, if you check makerspaces/hackerspaces they'll usually be using one of those two
p0g0Jan-: me? I was a student, south island, I'd been in N. California.
bqChur
DrakoniteYeah, at least two two models are better quality than they should be for the price, PLUS you can hack them to increase the specs quite a bit
bqheh, soft locking stuff off?
Drakoniteyeah
bqI hate that
Drakoniteunis often have overpriced hardware, sometimes that was donated by the companies, and is not a good judge for affordable hardware
bqI also hate things are hard locked off
bqI moved a 0 ohm resistor on my Casio programmable calculator and doubled the storage space
Jan-p0g0: the weird thing about it is that everyone from australia and new zealand seems to think that their part of the world is super awesome and bestest of all
Jan-then they all leave :D
Jan-ACTION is surprised that NZ has a population left
Drakonitee.g. they might have $10k keysight scopes, because keysight gave a huge discount so students would turn around and want to buy keysight scopes after school
bqOnly reason we leave is because all the foreigners are coming and buying our houses
bqDrakonite, fair point actually
Miyudarn foreigners~
bqACTION waves stick
^7heoyeah, kill them all
p0g0Jan-: hmm, when I was in NZ, they had a thing about getting out into the world for a while, usually around college age, but most return...
^7heoworked alright for the nazis
DrakoniteI'd say I'm old and cynical, but I'm not sure 'cynical' applies when it's all true
password2bq why do you hate such things/
^7heofor about 5 years
password2like the hardlocked resistor?
bqpassword2, I don't hate foreigners, I hate it when they price us out of our own housing market
bqOH
Jan-don't worry
Jan-that's happening here too
p0g0Heck, NZ just outlawed foreign ownership of homes, per the news.
^7heopassword2: this channel is obviously not for electronics
Jan-china is basically buying up all new housing estates and renting them back to us
Miyuele what now?
bqI hate it because the feature is there, but the resistor was put in a place such that you had to pay more for the resistor in the other place
^7heopassword2: so please post your questions somewheree else
^7heobq: same
MiyuACTION just wants to live inside the internet
^7heotoo many trolls
Miyuhaving a physical body is such a bother
^7heonot fun
bqI can kind of understand other things where development costs were had
bqBut it still sucks sweaty balls
p0g0Miyu: they grow on you...
password2bq well
Miyuand then die? :D
p0g0Miyu: yes, and that is a good thing,
Miyuthey're so nasty and bothersome :(
Miyutoo high-maintenance for me
Drakonitebq, but with the scopes, a lot of it is just which hardware components they chose, so having two price points for artificially crippled hardware feels a little scummy
password2you are paying for a product , not for a bag of components. You should be glad security is so lax
p0g0What would we do with all those immortals, and why have kids if no one ever dies?
bqDrakonite, definitely
password2its more of a jackpot you strike
Miyukids?
Miyu:D
bqpassword2, Heh
Miyuthere's infinite space in the Cloud
Miyu(o/
bqThe resistor thing pissed me off more than more complicated things, because it's daylight robbery
Jan-oh hey Miyu
Miyuhello Jan- o/
Jan-ACTION places Miyu on a comfy cushion
bqPay $40 more for them to have soldered the resistor in a different place
Miyu*^-^*
bqpoopy
p0g0Miyu: I have my doubts... once the machines own us all, we're likely just noise in the system to them... I suspect you'd just get powered down one day.
Drakonitepassword2, there are claims of it being intentional, as it gets more of the hacker market, while still getting other places to pay a bit more
Miyup0g0: I'll be useful, I know :D
DrakoniteI don't know if that is the case with Rigol, but the recent Keysight scopes that were sent to some youtubers appear to be doing it
bqHmmm
MiyuACTION likely will form the core of Skynet anyway
MiyuACTION coughs~
p0g0Miyu: to a machine? That sounds slavish at best.
password2Drakonite: ofc it is intentional
DocScrutinizer05bq: would you prefer they only sell the more expensive product?
bqOf course not.
password2Drakonite: you mean intentionally easy?
Jan-ACTION listens to MC Hawking
p0g0ACTION is a fan of the notion that life is a one time pass, and history says we should make the most of it.
tgeekyjoe_z: you there?
Drakonitepassword2, I mean in the case of keysight this summer, they send pre-release units to the specific people that would be trying to hack them to unlock those paid-upgrade features, with half the reviews from those people being discussion about whether it's hackable and how they are going to hack it
Drakonites/send/sent/
password2Drakonite: eh
DrakoniteRigol tried to lock it out on the 1052E with a firmware upgrade, but I don't know how serious they were about that
p0g0ACTION cues up Paul Brady's "The World Is What You Make It"
Jan-ACTION p0g0s
password2Drakonite: i would give whoever did that an blowjob
p0g0Well, that is a great tune...
Drakonitethe 1052 being hacked made rigol a ton of money. I mean, just look at me, I was recommending the rigol 1054z to someone just a bit ago because of it :P
tgeekyjoe_z: last bit of news for the evening: Putting in those transistors had no effect. However, I did a 4 wire measurement of a precision resistor AND re-attached the oscilloscope probe to the aforementioned resistor (R110 or R111, whatever it is)
password2if it was intentional
Drakonitepassword2, eh?
DocScrutinizer05if rigol were serious about it, they simply would drill a 3mm hole to the PCB to disable the "excess" functions
p0g0password2: it often is.
bqpassword2, Me! Me! It was me!
tgeekyjoe_z: when it's in 1X mode probe, the measurement basically stabalizes AND stabalizes on exactly the correct measurement (the resistor is 1M 0.1%, and I'm getting 0.99989 MOhm
tgeekyjoe_z: again, tho, not using 4 wire leaves the measurement pretty much in the same place
Jan-ACTION listens to MC Hawking's "I am the mighty Stephen Hawking"
tgeekyjoe_z: actually, no, even more interesting: only the BLACK lead of the 4 wire measurement matters. If it's disconnected, the 1M resistor measures as 1.2M. If it's connected, it measures as 0.99991M.
tgeekyjoe_z: the red lead of the 4 wire doesn't matter
Jan-"That be some serious bad ass wu tang scooby gang funky ass shit I be laying down on your ass."
Jan-(in voice of Stephen Hawking)
password2bq i only bj women
password2:D
bqOh ok sorry thanks
password2and people that give me scopes
bqsorry thanks please ok oh ok wow
Miyuso cheap~
password2what can I say
Jan-ACTION tickles Miyu's tummy
password2am a broke engineer
DrakoniteHrm. I have a bunch (~40) little bent wire things to make. I'm debating building a convoluted contraption to automate making them
MiyuACTION engages cat-trap on Jan-'s hand <3
cart_manCan someone please just tell me what they are actually asking of me? In my 4 years of studying i have never seen this -> https://imgur.com/a/y2XKe
password2Drakonite: veroboard works nice for making templates
Jan-Aaargh!
Jan-ACTION squirts blood
p0g0ACTION can't tell whether to cue up "Cheepniz" or "Willie the Pimp"
password2cart_man: wtf is that?
Drakonitepassword2, bent wire for essentially connector tabs. needs 4 bends each, and is maybe 6mm in the longest dimension
password2I've heard of a Bloody Mary , but a blody Jan!
cart_manMy lecturer just popping in from 1955 to say hi
bqACTION pours radiator leak stopper into Jan-
password2popping in here?
cart_manNo popping in to set up a rediculous test ... Its probabyl really easy to do if you know what to do
Jan-bq: thankies :/
password2how accurate do you guys reckon these things are? https://www.aliexpress.com/item/SNDWAY-40M-60M-80M-laser-distance-meter-rangefinder-trena-laser-tape-range-finder-build-measure-device/32658527758.html
DocScrutinizer05<3 Willie the Pimp"
bqDepends on the day of the week
Drakonitethey claim +/-2mm, so I'm guessing +/-2cm
DocScrutinizer05Ponti
DocScrutinizer05ooh Sugarcane Harris
p0g0Shuggie Otis!
p0g0(aka "Snatch and the Poontangs")
DocScrutinizer05https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKYGaEafv4g
electrobotDocScrutinizer05 just linked to Frank Zappa - Willie the Pimp - YouTube
p0g0Hot Rats is a great album...
DocScrutinizer05indeed
DocScrutinizer05Beefheart :-D
password2ah , the pessimussum of ##electronics
p0g0hmm Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee might get real...
p0g0yes, possumists all
DocScrutinizer05password2: (how accurate) definitely not the 3 decimals they show
DocScrutinizer05max +-5 LSD
cnnxother than recharging a regular battery to a AC wall charger, is there other ways to power an indoor custom made robot? i would need about 10AH @ 12VDC
cnnxis there any mini RTGs?
cnnxor fuel cell?
p0g0small engines...
cnnxpowered by what p0g0 ?
p0g0any combustable fuel... hydrogen to diesel... vent well.
cnnxfor indoor use?
cnnxin a living room?
p0g0they sell unvented gas heaters... again, vent well.
cnnxok ill look into it, ty
p0g0cnnx: there are a lot of ways around that barn, there are fuel cells, LiOn batteries, clockworks, and so on...
DrakoniteI want a clockwork roomba
p0g0You'd have to wind it a lot I suspect.
p0g0oh, steam too, I should have thought of that... very retro
cnnxsafe for indoor?
cnnxcan produce DC?
user3209Followed you guys advice and got a BC1.2 USB hub - like magic, my phone now charges from usb while in use!
password2ok DocScrutinizer05
user3209I feel like it's 2009 again
DocScrutinizer05user3209: hah!
p0g0cnnx: most thermal power plants start with steam energy... You too could add a small dynamo to your robot, and make a coal/wood/petrol fired rig.
Jan-for pity's sake
Jan-what company doesn't just put firmware updates on its website
Jan-why do I have to email them for it
p0g0Ones that want to sell you stuff and get your email address to sell.
user3209what company is that so I can never buy anything from them?
Drakonitealmost all power plants use steam engines in the end
FauxJan-: ST jumps to mind.
Drakoniteexcept hydro and some solar
password2they just want noods
user3209still only 0.97A, so if they'd put a USB3.0 port on the phone I would have been okay without BC1.2
user3209better than the 0.5A max for a 2.0 port though, and it's enough to keep my phone slowly ticking upward instead of downward
p0g0Drakonite: hmm, that would work too, a hydro robot... just plumb in an inlet/outlet hose pair and turn a small hydraulic motor.
user3209make a hydralic robot powered by mains water pressure :)
p0g0yep
Drakonitep0g0, but you promised me a clockwork roomba
p0g0it really would work
p0g0no, I just said that was an option, you have to build this small monstor yourself
p0g0*monster
password2BC1.2?
password20.5a max for a usb port? where do you get that from/
DocScrutinizer05user3209: when 500mA@5V don't charge your phone, you got other problems
user3209https://www.maximintegrated.com/en/app-notes/index.mvp/id/5801
cnnxwhy are li-ion batteries alot more expensive than SLA batteries?
password2DocScrutinizer05: you you know how slow a phone charges on that?
password2cnnx: because they make better dildos
DocScrutinizer05yes, at ~2.5Wh per hour
user3209DocScrutinizer05 500mA isn't enough to run the screen and data connections.
p0g0The lithium
password2DocScrutinizer05: many phones would take 12hr+ to charge on that
DocScrutinizer05then why the heck you run the screen?
password2unless you turn it off
user3209because I'm mirroring the screen and it needs to be on and min brightness
cnnxp0g0: the only advantage I see is being lighter
user3209*at
cnnxany other advantage?
p0g0cnnx: lithium is a bit scarce, and the batteries can ignite if not properly built and charged.
p0g0power density, battery life...
cnnxp0g0: are they well suited for a robot?
password2even if i turn my phone of I still need like 18Wh to charge it
p0g0personal survival, if you need to start a fire in the rain...
cnnxdo they required a special charger or the same charger for SLA battery? if both at 12v dc nominal
p0g0cnnx: I'd think they might be, but again, as you noted, expensive.
user3209BC1.2 allows you to charge phones while they're plugged into your computer and transferring data by usb at higher current than the USB spec would allow
p0g0cnnx: You need the charger designed for your battery.
cnnxok
cnnxso the density i sbetter than that of SLA?
cnnxand longer life?
user3209If I run GPS on my phone in the car I need to run at least a 1A charger, too
p0g0cnnx: than lead/acid- yes.
user3209with CPU and Screen maxed a GS7 draws over 1.8A from the battery
cnnxp0g0: how are they more dangerous than selaed acid?
p0g0fire
user3209more energy = more danger
user3209in general
cnnxok
p0g0lithium once ignited is nigh impossible to snuff out.
paulrsthats why i dont drink lucazade
cnnxis this what they use on the ISS for renewable energy deep cycle batteries?
p0g0cnnx: I don't know, but I bet you could just look that up...
user3209the ISS has insane weight limitations which lead to them making some design decisions that done make sense for terrestrial stuff
password2lion wont be 12V nominal
password2user3209: are you sure you have the right spec?
password2because I consider myself clued up with usb power specs , and I dont know about that one
user3209password2 what?
user3209it's pretty new I think
user3209https://www.maximintegrated.com/en/app-notes/index.mvp/id/5801
password2ok
password2You are refferring to battery charging?
user3209battery charging with data transfer
cnnxwhy doesn't the wiki page for deep cycle battery not even mention li-ion batteries ?
password2that is for direct charging of betteries , and its not a feature of USB to BC to provide higher current when device comminucates , atleast not explicitly specified
password2the protocol you are thinking about is USB PD(Power delivery)
user3209I don't think we're talking about the same thing
p0g0cnnx: because it doesn't apply to them?
password2usb power delivery is completely independent of the communication , and is completely bidirectional
cnnxyou can have a li-ion battery with 5000 cycles life
user3209I'm just charging my phone, which has it's own battery charge circuit
cnnxwhich makes it deep cycle
ShadowJKcnnx, you're reading a page about Lead-Acid batteries and expect it to discuss Li-Ion?
user3209password2 AFAIK usb2.0 spec does not allow more than 500mA draw so as to prevent devices from sucking all the current from a PC
cnnxhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep-cycle_battery
cnnxits a webpage about deep cycle batteries
cnnxnot SLA
cnnxsla and li-ion are types of batteries
ShadowJKcnnx, the first text: A deep-cycle battery is a lead-acid battery
user3209even powered USB hubs comply with this, even USB 3.0 ports do not allow 2.0 devices to draw more than 500mA
cnnxyou just said li-ion have better density
cnnxwhich would make it an even better deep cycle battery
user3209I have tested this
ShadowJKLead-acid is the only common battery that has issues with deep-cycles, which is why deep-cycle battery is only a term you'll encounter with lead-acid
user3209LiFePO4 is the gold standard for deep cycle
user3209they use them on boats and RVs
cnnxuser3209: ok that makes sense so why not mentionned in tat wiki page?
ShadowJKSo yeah, deep-cycle battery is understood to be a lead-acid optimized for deep cycling ... which still makes it worse at it than NiCD, NiMH, and Li-Ion in all its forms
user3209what wiki?
cnnxlifepo4 = li-ion
ShadowJKcnnx, hey btw, the topic of this channel mentions batteryuniversity, it's an excellent resource for learning about batteries, have a look :)
cnnxShadowJK: ok ty
user3209liFePO4 is a type of li-ion, not the most common one either
cnnxi just want the the best and lightest deep cycle battery
cnnxfor a 10AH 12VDC application
cnnxany reocmmendations?
ShadowJKIf those are your only parameters, Li-Ion
cnnxok ty
user3209http://www.batteriesdirect.com.au/shop/product/25922/v-lfp-12-10.html
ShadowJKLead-ACid is heaviest, but cheapest and easiest to use.
user3209something like this
ShadowJKLi-Ion is lightest, but you need a battery management system around it, and special chargers.
ShadowJKIn order to avoid explosions.
p0g0cnnx: pneumatics might also work well indoors to power that robot, one hose would do.
user3209LiFePO4 is much heavier than Li-poly though
ShadowJKyep
ShadowJK5 times more cycle life than lithium cobalt
ShadowJKLower capacity for same volume and weight, though
user3209you have to ask whether cycle life or weight is the most important
cnnxNickel-hydrogen 20,000[31]
cnnxthats alot of cycles
cnnxjust found this in a chart
cnnxi want one of them lol
user3209https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium_iron_phosphate_battery
user3209has 8000 cycles
tomeaton17Hi
jcjordyn120Heyo
SG_Sleepshow many batteries are you talking?
p0g0ACTION cues up "Here Comes the Sun" and rushes off to greet the young photons.
user3209IIRC one 12V 10Ah battery
SG_Sleepshow long is it gonna be used?
user3209cnnx?
user3209he wants the best and lightest deep cycle battery, not sure of the application but I think some kind of robot
SG_Sleepsthat sounds neat.
SG_SleepsI hope it's a cool robot...
SG_Sleepsi heard of that 'foam' type of structure, where it doesn't runaway-react and spit a lick of fire at ya.
SG_Sleepssome kinda lattice
SG_Sleepsbut I doubt it's got the guts to give 10A deep-cycle style, over many charges
SG_Sleepsthat'd be neat
password2user3209: afaik they can
password2also i dont think usb BC will be applicable for mobile phones?
SG_Sleepshere's something like it if anyone's interested: https://youtu.be/m9-cNNYb1Ik?t=8
electrobotSG_Sleeps just linked to www.youtube.com (The Battery That Refuses to Explode | NOVA - YouTube)
SG_Sleepsthx bot
password2I've never seen a lithium battery explode!
python476depends on your definition of seen
python476SG_Sleeps: thanks a ton
python476I was looking for that video and couldnt find it
password2in my books , if stuff explode , they go BANG
password2I've seen flames
cnnxcool video SG_Sleeps
python476password2: then your liion batteries need a harder case :p
SG_SleepsACTION is sleeping, shhh
cnnxso you're saying if someone pokes my lio-ion battery in my robot it'll catch fire
cnnxin my living room
password2python476: I've been using my anus to store them
password2this is an explosion https://youtu.be/xOE4pCehJ70?t=28s
electrobotpassword2 just linked to www.youtube.com (Will 1300fps Lead Set Off Nitrated Glycerol? - YouTube)
python476password2: anuses are known to be stretchable
python476amazing, the shock fubared his finger skin through the 2 gloves
password2python476: for only a drop or two
password2:D
python476as they say at NASA, high fubaring efficiency factor
python476oh I was too quick, some piece of metal pierced through the gloves
python476sorry shockwaves, your day will come
SG_Sleepshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mXXsZdipWfI
electrobotSG_Sleeps just linked to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ - YouTube
jaggzhttp://www.zdnet.com/article/here-is-every-patch-for-krack-wi-fi-attack-available-right-now/
jaggzopen BSD was fixed back in July??
python476jaggz on duty
Fauxjaggz: Yeah, they violated the NDA and are hence banned from playing in future.
jaggzlol I don't understand either of you
jaggzI guess my WiFi is encrypted
SG_Sleepsit there any protection today against deauth attacks?
SG_Sleepsis*
password2the look on his face is true pain
SpeedEvilSG_Sleeps: implement IEE 802.3
jaggzhttp://www.kb.cert.org/vuls/byvendor?searchview&Query=FIELD+Reference=228519&SearchOrder=4
jaggzlist of affected hardware
SG_Sleepsmitm just got simple
SG_Sleepsbrb
SG_SleepsACTION gets arrested
password2jaggz: eh
password2howbad is it really?
HrdwrBoBpassword2: depends on how you use wifi
HrdwrBoBit ranges from 'honestly not a big deal'
HrdwrBoBto 'holy shit it's a serious big deal'
password2I've heard being able to exploit the vulnerability is a very rare situatuon
HrdwrBoBwell
HrdwrBoBit takes physical proximit
HrdwrBoBy
HrdwrBoBso you either need to be somewhere where a lot of people are
HrdwrBoBor be specifically targetted
SG_Sleepsstarbucks
password2ok
password2we have passwords against walls
password2:D
python476SG_Sleeps: have you seen the Foo Fighter duo ?
SpeedEvilHrdwrBoB: Or to be in proximity to a viral attack.
password2and pc cases
SG_Sleepsnop
jaggzpassword2, anyone with the scripts (I can't find the scripts) can MITM you
jaggzany of your neighbors at least
password2well someone just needs to look at a pc here and have passwords to log on
SG_Sleepsdeauth, spoof AP's ssid, hijack whatever connection... do evil
jaggzpassword2, AND it affected nearly everyone
SG_Sleepsthese things take time, though, to fix
jaggz"US-CERT has known of the bug for some months and informed vendors ahead of the public disclosure to give them time to prepare patches and prevent the vulnerability from being exploited in the wild -- of which there are no current reports of this bug being harnessed by cyberattackers."
FauxLuckily nobody is using protocols that are subject to MITM anymore, right? Right?
SpeedEviljaggz: I am amused that the very first platform I own that was patched was the ESP32
kcrowI need to bring life back into my Sparc-10
SpeedEvilkcrow: have you considered finding a delorian and getting it to 88MPH?
kcrownot at all
kcrowit was in a building that collapsed from the hurricane
DocScrutinizer05((deep cycle batteries)) discharge a LiIon cell completely and it's dead
kcrowand is stained but it should be a ewl project to revive it
DocScrutinizer05so LiIon are no deep-cycle-batteries
password2a fellow esp32 user!
password2everyone seems to like 8266 moore
SpeedEvilpassword2: ESP32 owner
password2well i dont own one
password2i fried it somehow
Drakonitepassword2, I think it's mostly a certain snake is quite vocal about his isssssues with the esp32
ismithersHey all, I have some wiring I wish to keep out of the way of a moving part that travels left/right and up/down. I am thinking about something like this https://i.imgur.com/uOrovfW.png I am thinking that I suspend the wires over the moving part, and this then keeps them out of the way when the part moves up as it retracts and pulls the wires up too.
ismithersDoes anyone have a better suggestion/idea?
Drakonitecable chains are useful: http://www.tinycontrols.com/images/D/TC-10x20-R38-cable-chain.jpg
ismithersI use some of those for my desk cabling actually - I have an electric sit/stand desk and they are awesome. But I'm not sure they will work in this instance. I need something that has tension and will pull the wires up as the moving part raises and allow them to be pulled down when needed.
password2ACTION snakes Drakonite 
ismithersI see this stuff in dental surgeries a lot actually heh.
password2how do i test if i have esd issues at my desk?
SpeedEvilpassword2: first, get your TASER
password2no
password2I've both fried an rpi 1and an esp32
SpeedEvilpassword2: check surface resistance of desk, check grounding of desk
password2with wut?
password2dmm?
SpeedEvilWhat is your desk surface
password2its painted MDF
password2clear coat
SpeedEvilThat could be high enough surface resistance to aquire static charge.
password2the power circuit may have a missing ground though!
SpeedEvilanti-static furniture polish is one solution
password2but measuring static is not very easy
HrdwrBoBhttps://i.imgur.com/3mG8qiF.jpg hooray!
HrdwrBoBnot electronic
HrdwrBoBbut new suspension arms
SpeedEvilhttps://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vermason-RS-ESD-Surface-Resistance-Checker-VER-26479-392-113/182758472735?_trkparms=aid%3D555017%26algo%3DPL.CASSINI%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20151016114640%26meid%3D67b2f5ff237849e1ba010878ee5e09e6%26pid%3D100507%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D1%26&_trksid=p2045573.c100507.m3226
DrakoniteI have an MDF desk with an insulative paint, some PVC pipe that holds up a light and a few other bits, and a nice carpeted floor to keep my feet comfortable; much softer when just wearing socks than a hardwood floor!
password2I'm on an unsealed floor too
password2tthis is the desk : https://imgur.com/jYFleL2
SpeedEvilI looked on ebay for desk coverings last night
password2ok , orddr me some :D
SpeedEvilhttps://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SIZOWEB-Table-Runner-Apple-Green-60cm-Roll-25Metres-64030R/252987780447
SpeedEvilI diddn't find anything suitable in rolls, oddly
jaggzmy esp8266 devices are vulnerable
jaggzViper-7`m, m??
SpeedEviljaggz: man in themiddle
SpeedEviljaggz: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCBrw_qFcAo
electrobotSpeedEvil just linked to Bee Gees Man in the Middle - YouTube
jaggzSpeedEvil, thanks buddy :)
password2where is Viper-7 today?
jaggzwe need a bot which follows what our channel users are doing irl
jaggzViper-7`m is in the bathroom. he's watching irc but not typing.
SpeedEvilACTION is pondering clearing up coffee cups, and puting on socks.
password2ACTION is pondering what lie he is going to tell his boss on why he did soo little today
jaggzSpeedEvil, I hear ya
jaggzgot lots of glasses around
jaggzand a few other dishes
password2i only ever use one cup
password2i wash it on sundays
python476on the subject of batteries https://www.cnx-software.com/2017/11/02/panasonic-showcases-flexible-batteries-with-wireless-charging/
SpeedEvilI question if you get to say you've added wireless charging to a battery if you've bought a wireless charger board off aliexpress
SpeedEvilhttps://www.powerstream.com/thin-lithium-ion.htm
DocScrutinizer05wow! PGEB0052081 40 mAH 0.5x20x81mm
cheatersup
SpeedEvilyeah - they have some fun stuff, and online purchasing, which is nice
password2well SpeedEvil unless my desk is accidentally grounded , its not grounded , it sits on 12 rubber wheels
password2but my desk may be grounded via the pc case
SpeedEvilpassword2: I would try first spraying the top with anti-static polish, and then applying a foil strip along the back edge, grounded
password2it already have a coating
password2now if my plug circuit have a missing ground , it could be flaoting all over
Qantourischow close would you pick the input resistors of an omamp versus it's input resistor specs ?
password2its hard to guestimate whats going on
SoniI need a 1500W PSU...
Soniand it needs to be fairly cheap
DocScrutinizer05mhm#
QantouriscSoni: well, how flat does the voltage need to be :p
password2that a big vibe
spludACTION thinks metal desk and remembers military. Big green, beige, and gray government desks.
password2why are you thinking metal desk?
spludpossible grounding of your desk via a PC case. One doesn't usually concern themselves with grounding wood, glass, or plastic.
SpeedEvilpassword2: that coating may not be static dissipative though, but insulative and able to get charged
spludBut I just showed up a couple of minutes ago, didn't review scrollback beyond the current screenful in my client.
password2i need a matt
tomeaton17Just got a vortex po3kr rgb
spludMatt says "hi, what's your sign?"
password2:/
tomeaton17Its perfect for forcing me to learn vim shortcuts
cart_manCan someone please just tell me what the hell they want me to do here -> https://imgur.com/a/isRaA
password2cart_man: aint it obvious?
cart_manUnfortunately no...ive never seen it in my life
password2its a circuit
SoniQantourisc: it needs to be stable enough to run a 1500W CPU
password2V3 = V1 + V4
password2thats all I'm saying
QantouriscSoni: good luck, you are basically looking at nice market PSU's ;)
Qantouriscit won't be "cheap"
Qantouriscstill not expensive
Qantouriscbut not cheap
Qantourisccheap compared to the CPU in any case :D
cart_manpassword2, So V1 and V4 is in parralel with V3
password2tomeaton17: i seriously thought a 'vortex po3kr rgb' if a psuedo dildo
password2cart_man: yeah
cart_manpassword2, That means v5 = v2 + v3
password2basically
password2that will be 1mBTC
cheaterhi
cart_manpassword2, So in 2.2 if I2 = 2A and I1 = 1A then I3 = 1A and I4 = 1A and I5 = 2A
jeffreewhat kind of device would be capable of performing sha256sum and verifying pgp signatures of files loaded from a usb memory stick, but be "impossible" to infect with malware?
password2idk cart_man , did not bother to check
cart_manpassword2, Ok wel lthanks anyway ...it seems soo easy but sometimes when you look at things the first thing you think it IT CAN NOT BE that easy
tomeaton17password2: It could be.... Its only a 60 keyboard so might fit
password2lol
password2I dont know if i would like a mechanical keyboard
SpeedEviljeffree: you do know sha-256 is quite broken?
password2all i know is my work one is shit
jeffreeSpeedEvil: haha, no I didn't
tomeaton17what keys does it have?
spludwhy is V5 = V2 + V3 and not say V3 - V2 ?
SpeedEviljeffree: As a general point, malware only happens if you do clever stuff on the USB stick. Do not ever execute any code from it, do not autorun or autoconfigure anything beyond a normal mass storage device.
SpeedEviljeffree: your best bet would be a linux system, running from read-only storage, rebooted every USB stick
spludAn embedded device with ROM (i.e. whose software cannot be rewritten)
password2splud: arrows
spludThough as SpeedEvil says, don't run code from the stick.
spludpassword2, ah, yes, see 'em now.
password2:D
spluddiagraph looked like a cheap bike frame frankly.
spludPossible company name: Crowbar Engineering
splud"We'll get in. Somehow."
SpeedEvilIf you liked that joke, you may also like https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4YYvBLAF4T8
electrobotSpeedEvil just linked to The Search for the Perfect Door - Deviant Ollam - YouTube
password2well we had a reject engineering client
spludEr, explain?
spludSome years ago, I learned that even if you're hungry as a contractor, there are clients you need to drop.
splud(or avoid taking in the first place)
Drakoniteindeed
SpeedEvilHe worked as a bungee operator.
password2splud: no fucking clue
password2splud: or charge them the idiot fee
password2like up your rate by like 50%
spludI like a good thrill,s but I draw the line at trusting my life to the math skills of some surfer dood pulling bungee cord from the back of his VW vannagon after coming to a quick stop on a bridge and saying "we've go to do this quick before the cops show up"
password2very often such horrible clients get shit rates from everyone else
password2double your rate and take out life insurance against teh client :D
spludmy experience was that the worst clients were not timely with payment. Or got that way after a while.
durrfyeah we have some shitheads who dont pay well
spludHad two different clients file bankruptcy over the years.
durrfso we stopped delivering shit to them without payment
jeffreesplud: your solution is basically what I had in mind, but I don't have the experience to know where to start to create it.
password2splud: nothing saying you have to be timely with your delivery then
ryaoSpeedEvil: Well, you can have a USB stick that also acts as a keyboard and mouse.
durrfcant place another call when theres one unpaid "BUT I NEED THIS" ye we are a company not a charity
spludThere's that desire to do a little more work hoping they'll recover, and there's coming to the realization you're just digging the hole and climbing down with them.
password290% of the times they fucking know what they are doing and that their being full of shit
ryaoUSB is funny that way in that everything is trusted. ^_^;;
SpeedEvilryao: yes, you need to setup the usb port so that it only accepts mass storage
jeffreeSpeedEvil: I don't think that solves the problem, since I would be using a dirty computer to write the iso, potentially
durrfthis one guy was going through bankrupcy and was using equipment we had sold him but he handt paid for
ryaoSpeedEvil: Does anyone do that? I don't even know how to do that.
SpeedEviljeffree: then find a clean one
jeffreeSpeedEvil: how?
durrfand he threatened my boss with a baseball bat when he came to get either the money or the equipment back... he was later hospitalized because someone beat him up with a baseball bat
SpeedEvilryao: the simple way would be to recompile linux and pull usb input device support
password2we normally deliver to our clients , and we had trouble with a client , so we said to him straight hes full of shit , and if he wants to buy form us again he needs to pick up
durrf(i really doubt it was my boss)
password2now he collects
jeffreeI am looking for a trustless method
ryaoSpeedEvil: That doesn't work well given that I use USB input devices.
password2he knows full well he is full of shit
jeffreeno cross your fingers and hope for the best
spludOne client that filed bankruptcy (protection not liquidation) did so because a former employee had left the company and then sued them and won, then with the judgement and a Sheriff, cleared out their bank accounts
SpeedEvilryao: for a device that is just verifying signatures, it works
ryaoSpeedEvil: Not for my workstation though. ^_^;;
SpeedEvilNo.
SpeedEvilThat was not the initial question though
spludOther one, the principal of the company passed away and the operation just imploded.
SpeedEviljeffree: there is no such thing.
durrfbackbone
SpeedEviljeffree: As you have to have some degree of trust all hardware on the market does not (for example) have full AI capabilities embedded in it, and you can't.
splud(was glad on that one that I had them pay for the hardware I'd worked on just prior to that, as I lost everything I was owed, and it was just as well it didn't have other costs stacked on)
SpeedEvil(that particular threat is very unlikely, I admit)
jeffreeI'm sure I'm not the first person to think of this problem and to take it seriously
QantouriscFor CMRR in diferential opamp circuits. How does one best match the DC decoupeling capacitor ? (As a difference leads to reduced low frequency CMRR)
spludunlikely threats make great attack vectors because people dismiss them. <g>
SpeedEviljeffree: you need to define your trust model.
Qantouriscthe easiest solution is take 2 huge capcitors
Qantouriscor up the resistors
ryaoSpeedEvil: That answer didn't restrict it to just USB mass storage, but it is possible to strip out everything to achieve that...
SoniI need 1500W PSUs in bulk
ryaoSoni: What are you doing that could possibly need 1500W PSUs? Also, go to newegg.com.
SpeedEvilryao: you can also use hotplug to do this in a way I forget
gurkiSoni: get used server psus
ryaoSpeedEvil: That sounds more practical, but I don't know how. I should ask in #gentoo-hardened...
SoniI need 1500W on a single rail
QantouriscSoni: bulk ?
Soni1500W on a single voltage/rail
QantouriscSoni: same location ?
stairmast0rdigikey time
SoniQuatermass: a few million units
ryaoThese are not ATX PSUs I take it.
QantouriscSoni: million units ?
QantouriscSoni: don't talk to us
spludHeh, got an email from pintarest saying they had to delete a pin because of a copyright complaint (I don't submit anything, just collect some things for ideas),
ryaoSoni: Are you Tony Stark?
QantouriscSoni: for a million units, there are plenty of companies willing to design your stuff
ryaoSoni: What voltage? Also, what Qantourisc said.
SpeedEviljeffree: Protecting against your little sister is probably easier than protecting against a supra-national organisation with the ability to compel nation states to make manufactures install malware.
SpeedEvilIn hardware
spludKudos to the party that complained - I've questioned that someone posts content on their own site and pinterest collects them up and uses them to drive advertising on their own site...
Qantourischell they ships it with a bowtie if you ask
Sonihmm ok
SoniI'll look into it then
ryaoSoni: You never said what voltage you need.
ryaoMaybe there is something off the shelf that would work.
gurkibesides, you ask interesting questions for a guy needing a million 1500W psus
Qantouriscryao: some over the top LED PSU might do, assuming it's 12V
Qantouriscand if it can handle the load-type
ryaoQantourisc: That is why I asked him what the voltage is.
Soni51%
QantouriscSoni: 51% ?
QantouriscACTION rolls eyes
Soni1500W is how much I can get out of one wall socket
Sonibut I wanna do a 51%
Qantourisc51% of what ?
Soniso I need millions of the units
ryaoSoni: Tell us what your DC voltage requirement is.
ryaoIs Soni ignoring me?
ryaoThis is a 6.5kW PSU: https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA8WV56M6547
Qantouriscryao: I think it's a case of "does not compute" human-brain
Soniwell I'm still making the device
ryaoNo idea on voltage output.
ryaoSoni: Do you have no idea what the voltage you need is?
Soninot yet
Qantouriscbefore ordering a milion units, knowing the voltage is kind of intresting
ryaoQantourisc: I think you mean important.
Soniwell, fair enough
Qantouriscsarcasme, understatement :)
gurkithe fuq is this :D
ryaoSoni: Maybe you should get just one PSU and make a prototype first.
SoniI haven't a prototype yet either
gurkiwhy do you need a million units be4 u even have a prototype
gurki:p
ggVGcwe call it yolo development
ggVGcit's an agile style
gurkiah
DocScrutinizer05ACTION wonders what stuff could need a 1k5W PSU and sell in millions
QantouriscSoni: btw, don't draw the max out of a socket, someone WILL plug in an extra device on the same fuse, and the power will be off ;) that's just practical tip
ryaoDocScrutinizer05: Who said he plans to sell it?
SoniI'll need a million units later, knowing where I can get that would be useful
ryaoQantourisc: A typical home circuit in the US can do something like 1800W.
gurkiso whats the general idea?
DocScrutinizer05I doubt he wants to use a million devices himself
Qantouriscryao: 4.4k here :) we got 220 ;)
ryaoSoni: Usually, you figure out what you need and then figure out how to get 1 million of it. I don't think you finished step 1 first.
ryaoQantourisc: Our circuits are typically like 15 A.
ryaoQantourisc: And we have 120V or 240V here. :P
Qantouriscdang
stairmast0rwhat kind of tinkering supplies are useful to have around? i think i'm good on tools and soldering stuff, and i'm about to order 22 to 28ga hook up wire
Qantouriscryao: (on the OR)
gurkistairmast0r: whatever fits your needs
gurkiits ussually the best idea to buy the stuff you find to need, not what $guy on the interwebz things everyone needs
LeoNerdstairmast0r: Resign yourself to the fact that you'll never have quite enough :) However many supplies you have, there'll always be the next job that "oh if only I'd thought to get some of that before"
LeoNerd^-- also that
stairmast0rokay okay i'll wait until i actually need it... but digikey is like candyland ._.
gurkii personally have a bunch of hv supplies. but im almost certainly sure that you dont need them :P
gurkialso, buy them used :)
gurkiway cheaper
stairmast0ryeah that's true, at least for tools
stairmast0rdoes anyone actually use antistatic wrist straps when working on boards and whatnot
FuchikomaWhy is selecting a wire-to-wire connector such a task :/
FuchikomaEleventy bajillion of the damn things
SpeedEvilsolder
FuchikomaI woudl like it to be easily removable for maintenance
kcrowsolder is good
SpeedEvilFuchikoma: captive soldering iron
FuchikomaFusible link
FuchikomaJust short it out and the overload melts the solder
Qantouriscso nobody ever had to match capacitors ?
jeffreeDocScrutinizer05: yes, he wants to use a million units himself
jeffreeI think he's talking of executing a 52% attack on bitcoin
jeffree51
QantouriscAt which point they might become worthless :p
Fuchikomaffs the male pins you can order single quantity but the female contact that does with is is 100 minimum
Qantourisc:(
archivistQantourisc, why would you match caps
n2Fuchikoma, The male pins have male privilege
Qantouriscarchivist: CMRR + DC decoupeling
n2they manspread
FuchikomaAha
n2That was a joke by the way
archivistQantourisc, CMRR is a function of an amplifier not a capacitor
FuchikomaClearly
Qantouriscarchivist: the capacitors are part of the complete CMRR schematic
archivistcommon mode rejection ratio is not a circuit
jeffreeSpeedEvil: I'm more trying to assume the latter threat and come up with the best solution possible.
SpeedEviljeffree: also, I was mistaken on the brokenness of 256, there are concerns.
SpeedEviljeffree: make your own devices on FPGA.
jeffreeshit, lol
SpeedEvilhttps://www.indiegogo.com/projects/fleafpga-ohm-fpga-experimenter-board-arduino#/
Qantouriscarchivist: CMRR is common mode rejection ratio (of something)
archivistI know, so you cannot have a circuit of a ratio
Qantouriscarchivist: https://m.eet.com/media/1200561/LTC-dn502_fig1.jpg <= this schematic has CMRR, and it changes depending on how well matched the R's are
jeffreeSpeedEvil: assuming you were referring me to that link, how long might it take that thing to sha256 a linux iso?
archivistRs yes why are you asking about capacitors which are not there
jeffreeignoring my inability to make this happen
SpeedEviljeffree: it would be moderately fast.
SpeedEviljeffree: probably as fast as it could read USB
Qantouriscarchivist: well on the input path add 2 capacitors
SpeedEviljeffree: however, why do you think your ISO supplier is legit
jeffreeSpeedEvil: I don't have a choice about that, I assume that is the limit of the trustless aspect
SpeedEvilWell, you can compile your own.
SpeedEvilWhich can change things a little.
jeffreetrue, I'm not sure how far I should go. In the end it's all source code that I will not be auditing.
FuchikomaWhat nonsense should I add to my digikey order?
FuchikomaThere's always something you think of a week later that you'd wish you'd thought of ...
bart416http://media.fluke.com/documents/6009629a-what-is-FieldSense-an-w.pdf
bart416That's pretty cool tbh
bart416If it was any cheaper I'd buy one and take it apart to see how it works
kcrowfluke makes good stuff
bart416They managed to make a clamp meter that measures voltage
bart4163% accuracy, so that's fairly good.
Fuchikomait's not even a full clamp
bart416Yeah, tbh it's pretty impressive
bart416I'm going to look for the patent
n2Hmm...
DocScrutinizer05((<jeffree> DocScrutinizer05: yes, he wants to use a million units himself)) ooookay... let's have some fun: 1E6 units x 1.5E3 W = 1.5E9 W aka 1.5GigaWatt. Which power plant he's going to buy and use for that project?
FuchikomaHe'll just use a bolt of lightning
FuchikomaWhile going 88MPH
DocScrutinizer05;-P
archivistmight need to drive faster than that to get more than one lightening bolt
FuchikomaJust travel back in time to jsut before the lighting strike and get yourself stuck in a time loop
DocScrutinizer05also which goddamn CPU uses 1k5W?
archivista fast one
tpw_rulesthat sounds like a SPARC kinda thing
DocScrutinizer05hehehe
FuchikomaOr a really slow one made entirely of bimetallic strips and heating elements
bart416An AMD Sempron from 1998?
tpw_rulesdo you mean SPARC
bart4161.5 GW seems about right for that
archivistthe Intels were more power hungry
tpw_ruleshas any cpu gone above 200?
tpw_rulesthat's one IC
splud200 what?
spludinstructions per second?
tpw_ruleswatts power consumption
spludwatts?
tpw_rulesyes
kmcholy fuck bitcoin is over $7000
spludhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_CPU_power_dissipation_figures
tpw_rulesmore profit stealing it!
DocScrutinizer05there are a few physical limits which are impossible to overcome without changing technology radically
tpw_rulesif i get into bitcoin that's how ima do it
kmcof course
kmcI'm not a bitcoin True Believer but I bought $1000 worth 2 years ago on a whim and yeah...
tpw_rulesi have $10 in dogecoin
tpw_rulesor had
kmclolol
tpw_rulesit's probably like nanocents now
tpw_rulesah yeah, sparc t4, 240W
tpw_rulesonly one over 200 i think on that list
spludModern age consumer a model of Core2 hit 150W
tpw_ruleswhy are they stealing macos names
tpw_rulesyeah that's about the max i remember hearing
FuchikomaIf I wanted to use an 8-bit DAC to produce -6v to +6v I would just use a +6v as a reference and have it output 0v to +12v right?
tpw_rules*risc processor fanatics*: hold my bear
tpw_rulesbeer
FuchikomaJust that simple?
kmcFuchikoma: you can sum voltages with an op amp, yeah
tpw_rulesassuming whatever it's driving does tht
tpw_rulesbut you might end up with your io lines at -6V relative
FuchikomaI'd be driving an oscilloscope display in XY mode
kmcfun!
kmcI've had fun doing that w/ my audio out on my laptop
tpw_rulesmake sure your dac is isolated then
kmchttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4YyI6_y6kw
electrobotkmc just linked to Oscillofun - YouTube
tpw_rulesotherwise the 6v will short through the scope
spludtpw_rules, why is Apple stealing animal and mountain/monument names?
FuchikomaThe circuit itself would be battery powered for that reason
tpw_rulessplud: apple has the right to everything
bobo1on1Fuchikoma: yes just use an opamp circuit to add an offset and amplify
spludACTION has $0.75 in Chuck-E-Cheese tokens
FuchikomaI couldn't use the DAC output directly?
tpw_rulesbobo1on1: i think he means just wiring ground of the thing he's driving to +6V
tpw_ruleswhich yeah would work fine
bobo1on1depends if your DAC can handle the voltage
tpw_rulesassuming it's isolated, which is true for a battery powered item
FuchikomaAh good point I should check operating voltage before I go any farther
tpw_rulesout of curiosity, why such a large swing?
kmcit looks *okay* on my Tek 2465A but could use some lowpass filtering
kmcprolly cause my laptop DAC is noisy at ultrasonic frequencies, because why shouldn't it be?
FuchikomaWhy not? I suppose it doesn't have to be but I have a 3.3/5/7/9/12v battery pack so why not use it
kmci'ma try it on the new rigol scope right now
tpw_rulessure
tpw_rulesbut that assumes the dac can do 12V
FuchikomaIt does, which is fine because i don't have one yet
FuchikomaI suppose it doesn't matter too much other than keeping the signal to noise ratio high
filadomeis it possible to order PCBs from Seeed that are not rectangular?
bobo1on1I think so yes, as long as it fits within the square you ordered
MrCrackPotBuildewhy not just use a bremel before you solder
MrCrackPotBuildeand use masking tape helps stop the board splinter
FuchikomaA 12V DAC is stupidly expensive so nuts to that
MrCrackPotBuildemine cost be 40 MYR
bobo1on1this is why they invented opamps
DocScrutinizer05kmc: DSOs suck at analog X
bobo1on1they cost almost nothing
MrCrackPotBuilde10 USD
MrCrackPotBuildeso easy to build
Fuchikomaopamps would also amplify noise :p it's not like I need 12V though, just an idea
bobo1on1well it's not like the 12v DAC would have less noise
FuchikomaExternal noise would be a few millivolts, let's say. That would be a smaller portion of +/- 6V than +/- 2.5V
spludIf I wanted to drive some address select lines on an IC low, should I be running a resistor between then and ground, or is tying them directly to ground acceptable? Nothing in the datasheet on this, but the mapping in the device doesn
DocScrutinizer05Fuchikoma: for scope usage and particularly 8bit DAC you shouldn't worry about S/N impact of voltages lower than 12Vpp
kmcDocScrutinizer05: yeah it seems so :(
kmccan't get it working at all
kmc<3 the tek
kmcglad to have both
FuchikomaMeh!
LeoNerdsplud: usually things like address lines are digital inputs, so high impedence. resistor or not should make no real difference
spluddoes not use the top two bits of the address (i.e. 8 bit address select, but only 64 entries in a table, all low 6 bits).
kmcI'll build a lowpass filter for the tek
spludThat's what I was thinking.
kmcMrCrackPotBuilde: why not dremel FR4? because fiberglass dust is just a little bad for your lungs :P
kmcyou gotta be real careful
kmcat least wear a respirator
FuchikomaFilter it through a cigarette and you'll be fine
kmclmao
kmcthat's true
kmcif you smoke then you might as well not care
kmcalso obligatory DO YOU HAVE MESOTHELIOMA? YOU MAY BE ENTITLED TO COMPENSATION
n2Lol
n2Mesothelioma
n2that's... a shitty cancer
n2Especially since most cases are entirely preventable
spludall sorts of dust is bad for your lungs.
n2A bit of the old cause-and-effect
n2splud, some are much worse than others, though
spludSand is bad.
n2Some elicit immune reactions, yet mess up the cells that try to digest the particles
spludLike from sandblasting.
n2Silicosis is much less insidious than asbestosis, say
spludwhich is why if you have a popcorn ceiling, you aught to drape over everything, spray the ceiling to get it thoroughly moist, and scrape off that crap (while wearing resp.) so it isn
spludisn't producing dust while you remove it.
SpeedEvilThere are today safe replacements for popcorn ceilings, based on expanded organics.
Hellesplud: check local regulations though....
spludpopcorn ceilings are, IMO, UGLY.
Goatman70’s nicotine stained grandma texture
kmclol
spludHehe/
DocScrutinizer05popcorn?
DocScrutinizer05err
DocScrutinizer05mhm >>A popcorn ceiling (slang), also known as a cottage cheese ceiling, a stucco ceiling [...] In early formulations it often contained white asbestos fibers<<
jeffreekmc: you still holding?
kmcyes
kmcI'm thinking I'll cash out about half soon
kmcdunno
jeffreedamn son
jeffreehonestly, I would continue holding
jeffreeI'm envious
jeffreeit's likely to go much higher
jeffreeinstitutional investors will be getting in soon
jeffreeSpeedEvil: do you trust flea?
SpeedEvilYou don't need to trust him, unless youa ssume he has teh resources to manufacture a FPGA
password4who are we not trusting?
jeffreeeveryone
archivistthose who dont cash out never make a profit
durrfmy basement has popcorn walls and ceiling :(
durrfand you can see that the person started out nice and random then got fed up and just did it lazy like for like 80% of the ceiling
HighInBCrandom is hard for humans
password4HighInBC, yeah
password4i used to have like standard random numbers and words :O
password4frobscottle is my current random word
MrCrackPotBuildekmc i have a custom built rig for soldering and small dust extractor (Hoover hattached underneath with a pipe)
MrCrackPotBuildeand yes i smoke while i do it haha
kmcfucking RP-SMA
kmcfuck you FCC
kmcsecurity through not-even-obscurity
password4kmc, eh
ZombieChickenkmc: Huh?
kmcFCC required that home wifi shit use RP-SMA rather than SMA jack
kmcto make it hard for home users to exceed the allowed power
kmcbut within a year or two RP-SMA was easy to obtain anyway
kmcso it's just wasting everyone's time and money
ZombieChickenSo a pro-corp FCC is screwing people? Interesting...
kmclolo
kmcfair point
ZombieChickenHome WiFi is pretty crap iirc anyways
kmcTrump will eventually appoint someone to the FCC who thinks radio waves are #FakeNews
kmca conspiracy by china
kmcZombieChicken: it is, but there are different degrees of crap
kmcI have many times solved signal issues with better antennas
kmcand better antenna placement
kmcright now I'm in a tiny flat so I hardly need much router power
ZombieChickenkmc: The sane solution is to not get an off-the-shelf router and build your own
kmcZombieChicken: what components would you use
LeoNerdVarious other 2.4GHz radio systems don't use RP-SMA, but normal SMA. It's getting hard to buy non-RP SMA antennas for them now
ZombieChickenDepends
LeoNerdEvery antenna I find is an RP one
kmcLeoNerd: I just bought a bunch of SMA antennas on Amazon and through SDR-related shops
kmcplus, adapters exist
ZombieChickenkmc: I'd have to do a lot of research before I'd start. Electronics isn't my strong suit, but the software and potential/probable security issues with off-the-shelf systems means that anything sane and secure will likely have to be a custom job just to get decent firmware/software on the thing
jeffreeopenwrt/lede?
ZombieChickenOpenWRT is an improvement, but I'm losing trust in Linux and it's userland
ZombieChickentbh, I think the Linux kernel is on it's last leg and Linus is just trying to keep the whole project from imploding
jeffreedon't say that :(
password4jeffree, meh , dont worry
ZombieChickenand the Linux userland is pretty much entirely garbage at this point
kcrowno l00nix like old l00nix
password4windows will always exist , as will linux
kcrowwe neeed moar DOS 3.1
jeffreeZombieChicken: could you be specific?
ZombieChickenjeffree: Oh, with companies like Intel, IBM, et al behind it, they'll keep it afloat for some time. The problem is when they start finding bugs they can't fix
ZombieChickenjeffree: Which are you most interested in?
ZombieChickenkcrow: FreeDOS?
password4ZombieChicken, are you for one fucking moment implying there is any modern bug free os?
jeffreehmm, I guess security
kcrowDR-DOS
ZombieChickenpassword4: Not in the least. There is a microkernel that has a formal proof that it's implementation is correct, but then the issues with design problems arises
jeffreeso, you can't do anything with it?
password4formal proof means nothing
Helleplease, AST retired
ZombieChickenjeffree: It's written in C, and crap like grsecurity are still being maintained. In fact, iirc the grsec people have an article on what they fix in the kernel that the official tree doesn't (fully) support
Helle(I was there for his retirement speech)
HelleZombieChicken: read up on why Linus does not touch grsec
ZombieChickenpassword4: Yeah, it does, it just doesn't mean you didn't screw up the original design
password4it does not even mean it wont crash
ZombieChickenHelle: have a link to that?
ZombieChickenpassword4: Your point?
password4that formal proof has little to do with the price of apples
ZombieChickentry the comment without the analogy that, from my end, seems entirely random.
password4what does that have to do with anything
HelleZombieChicken: not handy, it's probably summarised lwn.net
ZombieChickenpassword4: Your apples comment makes no sense
password4howmuch more clarification do you need?
ZombieChickenTry a statement in plain English without alluding to something that seems entirely unrelated?
kcrowACTION blames the squirrels
password4https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/104889/what-does-that-have-to-do-with-the-price-of-tea-in-china
password4holy fuck ZombieChicken
gurkioh were at that point of discussion again where password4 runs out of arguments and starts flaming
gurkiACTION grabs popcorn
password4gurki only for 5 more min
password4then i need to run
kcrowACTION adds some propane to the channel. . . . 
gurki:-)
ZombieChickengurki: and I think is slightly confused by my statement
ZombieChickenunless password4 is some weird bot, which, given the apples comment, might be the case
password4dude
password4I'm literally trying to tell you your comment of a kernel being proof has fucking to do with its surviveability
password4but its like i hit some kind of brick wall
password4as soon as you found something outside your frame of reference you stopped
password4its amazing
beanbag-BMCC
password4Someone i work with is a lot like that
password4ACTION bites beanbag- 
ZombieChickenand asked for clarification via a restatement, which seems to be missing
password4"<password4> what does that have to do with anything"
jeffreepassword4: red herring
password4<password4> https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/104889/what-does-that-have-to-do-with-the-price-of-tea-in-china
password4this is nerd sniping in its finest form
password4hes still processing
jeffreepassword stay on topic
password4grepping my references for 'apple'
password4jeffree, should i get of your mom fisrt?
ZombieChickenActually, I'm enjoying watching you dance around the issue on par with a politician caught with his cock in his secretary
jeffreeit that's what it takes
password4i have a secretary?
ZombieChickengurki: Pass the popcorn?
password4ZombieChicken, you going to eat alone , check the clock
gurkiACTION passes the popcorn around
ZombieChickenACTION accepts, consumes, passes on
beanbag-gurki, BMCC
flor1anACTION takes some
flor1anACTION takes all
gurki:O
flor1ango get yourself some new popcorn :3
gurkiACTION presents a new bag of popcorn :)
gurkiinfinite supplies!
flor1anwell i was about to say i have a truckload of salty popcorn here, which i'd be happy to share (after making some stupid joke)
flor1an;)
ZombieChickenso is this how password4 normally reacts when someone doesn't instantly understand some out-of-left-field statement of theirs?
password4yeah
gurkiflor1an: ;)
password4especially when I've made two attempts at clarrification
flor1angurki: guess i'll throw in some brews ;)
gurkiyay :)
password4check you guys in 40 min , gotta run , 6km of it
gurkihf
jeffreeZombieChicken: I think I've seen him do this sort of thing at least one other time
ZombieChickenjeffree: Mind being a bit more specific?
ZombieChickenwhat sort of thing?
jeffreerather than directly clarifying, making the conversation about the request for clarification (or some similar derailment)
jeffreebasically just combativeness
ZombieChickenSo a problem with communication and understanding that understanding English requires a retarted amount of cultural reference material that not all English speakers share?
ZombieChickenthen raging when someone ask for an explination?
kmcACTION out riding her ebike!!
gurkiyay :)
ZombieChickenebike?
kmcit's a custom jobbie and it has a few.... unusual features
gurki:P
kmc2 kW hub motor
gurkioh
ZombieChickenI'm assuming you mean electric, but I can't help but think your saying ebike in the same vein as email
gurkithat sound like that form of overkill i would build :D
kmcsketchy backpack mounted LiFePO4 bat pack
ZombieChickenwhich is a really weird mental image
redrabbitdo you have proper brakes
redrabbit:D
kmcno
redrabbitlol
gurkiwho needs bakes
gurkithere are trees
kmcthe brakes hella need work
gurki:-)
ZombieChickenand hills
redrabbiti have an ebike but battery is dead
ozzzyI have a Ram 1500 and the battery is fine
redrabbitit needs to be renewed so atm i just use a normal bike
redrabbitit lasted like 3/4 years
ZombieChickenkmc: how hard is it to build a bike?
redrabbitquite hard imo
redrabbitand the wheels and brakes and everything takes a beating
redrabbitbecause it goes so fast
redrabbitand its heavy
redrabbitesp. on rough terrain
ZombieChickenWhy would that be more of a beating than a normal bike?
ZombieChickengiven similar enviroments
redrabbitweight and speed
ZombieChickenI'm assuming the weight is the batteries, but is the speed that diff?
ozzzycan't build your own here
redrabbiti had to get the back wheel redone
redrabbitbecause it was so warped
kmcbattery pack: http://tinyimg.io/i/hKkX4ds.jpg
redrabbitcouldnt use the brakes on it anymore
ZombieChickenWait, we're talking electric bicylces here? I was thinking electric motorcycle
gurkikmc: whoa
redrabbithope it doesnt explode in your back
gurkikmc: i like your kind of insanity
redrabbit:D
redrabbityeah its quite crazy
jeffreebrakes? where we're going we don't need brakes.
ZombieChickenredrabbit: fwiw, you can get disk brakes for a bicycle
redrabbitsure, i could
ZombieChickenkmc: ^
redrabbitatm i just use my regular bike
ZombieChickenIt would probably save your rim
redrabbitmy regular bike has the disk brakes ironically
ZombieChickenNot sure I'd trust caliper brakes for something like that
ZombieChickenredrabbit: ...
jeffreethat looks like a lot of batter :)
jeffreebattery, damn it
redrabbitsure doesnt look like a legal ebike
redrabbitlmao
jeffreeso, I don't imagine that fpga's are a good place for idiots to get started with electronics and programming.
phinxyIn this pellet wood burner/heater there is a LED in a glass enclosure sensing stuff. This gradually collects soot and has become a burned to clean every week. At purchase it had to be cleaned every x month or so. Now its once every week.
redrabbitZombieChicken: on the ebike there is no space on the frame to add the disk brakes by the way
beanbag-mavbye some kind of soot resist coating for glass that is safe in fireplace
beanbag-I am sure someone makes something
ZombieChickenOr try polishing it
jeffreeI just now notice that the ohm fpga indiegogo is closed
redrabbityep maybe you cleaned it with abbrasive stuff so now it gets dirty quicker
ZombieChickenmight just contact the maker and see if that enclosure needs some specific type of love
redrabbitbecause it gives space for shit to adhere
redrabbiton the rougher surface
ZombieChickenjeffree: Xinilix has some good, reasonably prices FPGA dev boards iirc. There is also the Lattice FPGAs, some of which even have an open stack (though I don't recall which ones exactly)
kiki_lambWhy might one choose to use uneven supply rails in a dual supply system? Like, I can see mentions of people using +12V/-6V. Just wondering what would motivate one to choose to do that
gurkitheres a huge edu discount so you should opt for the bigger boards should you be applicable
ZombieChickenredrabbit: Glad someone ran with that suggestion. This is turning into one of those mornings where I'm just not thinking entirely clearly
gurkijeffree:
HelleIn the mean time Reddit providing some humor https://i.redd.it/hcj9243gs8uz.jpg
jeffreenope, not me
gurkisomething zynq based eg
gurki(which i am a big fan of)
ZombieChickenZynq? Are those Xinilix's ARM+FPGA chips?
gurkibut the cyclone v is pretty much the same
gurkiyes
gurkithey are super-handy :)
jeffreewhat is it, functional programmable gangster array?
ZombieChickenAre FPGAs nonvolatile?
ZombieChickenjeffree: Floating Point Gate Array
gurkix)
jeffreeare gangsters nonvolatile? don't think so...
ozzzyfloating point.... LOL
gurkistill gotta try the opencl for it tho
ZombieChickenI think it depends on the gangster. The smart one's are fairly level headed
gurkii only used it on way bigger fpgas
phinxyHow many Ah do you guys ride with on your backs?
phinxy100 ish?
ZombieChickenWell, crap
ZombieChickenjeffree: Field Programmable Gate Array. I was close
ZombieChickennow, off for more coffee. Cup #1 clearly didn't do it
ZombieChickenozzzy: Well, I'm sure you can do floating point stuff on them, so I'm sure I'm not entirely wrong
ozzzyof course
gurkiyou can. but you shouldnt
gurkix)
gurkiit takes a hell lot of space
phinxydoes fpgas have internal oscillators or do they require external clock
gurkidepends, really
phinxyFPGA logic is still digital, right?
gurkiya
gurkiyou might run into analog problems as soon as you interface with the outside world though
synx508Wifi underpants update: project successful, not sure when the broadcast date is
ZombieChickenWell, nothing says "clear headed" like going to make coffee, making it, then leaving it in the other room while you return...
ZombieChickensynx508: WiFi underpants?
synx508yes.
ZombieChicken...why?
kmcgurki: ZombieChicken: I must confess, I didn't build this bike... I bought it from a friend who is even more insane
ZombieChickenkmc: You sure they are more insane? You did buy it...
kmctrue
kmcso it's almost 3 HP
kmcso imagine 3 horses at a full run are pulling you up a hill
kmcI blew the 50A breaker several times getting home just now
kmcgoing 25 uphill
ZombieChickenNot bad
ZombieChickenMight want to swap out the breaker if that is a problem (and the rest of the circuit can handle everything)
gurkiswapping breakers without some serious investigation is ussually a bad idea :P
ZombieChickenhence what I said in parens
archivistuse the smoke to go faster
kiki_lambWhat are the most important things to adjust when trying to modify a circuit for a different voltage? Like, if I find a schematic for 12V DC online and wanna try building it for 9V DC, what are the things I'm likely to want to adjust?
synx508it depends on a lot
archivistkiki_lamb, how long is a piece of string
kmc09:54 < archivist> use the smoke to go faster
kmcyes
kmcI'm not sure these wires can actually handle 50A... they get a bit toasty
kiki_lambsynx508: yeah, i'm sure - there must be some main / common things, though
synx508bias circuits, voltage dividers, current limit resistors
kmckiki_lamb: you got a schematic?
ZombieChickenkmc: Use them to make a really small thermal engine then, and get more power?
kmcZombieChicken: yes
kiki_lambkmc: hm, let me find an arbitrary example
gurkisounds like this bike is a overall great design ^^
archivistarbitary is not a lot of use
kmcI also want to get a backpack leaf blower engine and make a series hybrid bike :P
gurkisorry gurkis a bit grumpy his simulations keep dieing horribly.
gurki:
gurki:(
synx508I've just been sweeping gate2 voltages and varicap voltages on a little levelled RF drive board that I'm working on, automation is fun. I seem to have amassed so many instruments that I have a choice of about 4 different ways of doing it
archivisttoys!
archivistsynx508, and then you build a second version which is completely different
password4yo
synx508maybe, well, I need to replace some of it with newer devices so definitely
kmcI have no room for instruments :(
synx508nor do I!
synx508it's hilarious
sophiyabuild a room
archivistdid some automated measuring on gearing a while ago for a giggle
kiki_lambkmc: let's say I was looking at something like this, but wanted to use +/-9 instead of +/-15 -> http://electro-music.com/forum/phpbb-files/gabbagabi_voltage_controlled_state_variable_filter_schemo_396.png
password4jeffree, did you miss the FLeaOhm?
jeffreeyeah
password4awe
heibolHi! anyone knows an alternative to ETS to program KNX on Linux? I can't virtualize on my laptop and I don't want to use Windows
password4i just just made it
password4there was a bit were i was seriously conidering not getting it and saving my money instead. But i figured its a pretty rare chance
archivistkiki_lamb, may just lose headroom
jeffreeI was first linked to it today
jeffreeas a solution to my idea
kiki_lambarchivist: that seems to often be the case - circuit will still work, just with different performance / input/output voltage... I'm just not really sure how to determine when that won't be true, and how to tell when there will be an actual problem/something that should be changed
archivistthere is no one answer
weyland|yutaniheibol, knx support in linux is awful
password4oh jeffree i was following from day 1
kiki_lambarchivist: what are the most important questions to ask when looking at a particular circuit?
archivistkiki_lamb, without the circuit in question one cannot know often
archivistsome matter others dont care
weyland|yutaniheibol, there was eibd but it isnt maintained anymore
archivistanalogue v digital etc
heibolweyland|yutani: ..... fine.... I'll install Windows and ETS then..., thank you anyway
jeffreepassword2: but are there not similar devices on the market?
kiki_lambright now, i'm mostly trying to wrap my head around opamp heavy audio circuits - oscillators, amplifiers, filters, things like that
password4kiki_lamb, the most important question to ask is why you are looking at said circuit
python476because he can
heibolweyland|yutani: I saw in github some projects but, I can't understand anything
weyland|yutaniheibol, well there is linuxmce but its only textfile configuration no GUI
kiki_lambpassword4: presumably i'm considering building it, and, in this case, possibly running it on a different voltage than it's labeled for
password4nice aliexpress , i can either get 1m heatshrink or 100m
Hellepassword4: banggood.com ? :P
Hellebecause bad companies names
Mangy_Dog Nearly finished... Need to sort out the edges where the faces meet. Need to do some work on the materials. And add some lights to the thing... but yeah nearly done. only took 7 years D: (i first started this model 7 years ago... then I disapeard, then i started again a few days ago :p ) https://i.imgur.com/4SGXydc.jpg Its nice having a workstation again.
heibolweyland|yutani: thanks! I don't use GUI. I like "ricing" everything I can do with terminal, I prefer it.
gurkiheibol: this will give you a very hard time at some point
weyland|yutaniheibol, i never tried it so i dont kow how it relates to ETS
password4i mut the only one not likeing the precut stuff
weyland|yutaniheibol, but if you got ETS 5 use it even if you dont like windows
heibolweyland|yutani: I've the lite version.
weyland|yutaniheibol, you are aware with light you can only program like 5devices
weyland|yutanilight=lite
password4ets5?
password4i assume some sort of fpga?
weyland|yutanipassword4, its a software for configuring devices using KNX bus
cheaterknx?
weyland|yutanipassword4, its for home automatiotion lighting etc
heibolpassword4: about domotic
password4ok
password4just use lora/esp :D
weyland|yutanicheater, https://www.knx.org/knx-en/index.php
password4jokes aside , i have a something I want to emped esp into
heibolI thought I could use the lite version to 20 devices for project
weyland|yutaniheibol, you are right its 20 for lite
weyland|yutani5 for free
weyland|yutaniconfused both of them
heiboli'ts fine, thanks for help weyland|yutani
password420 devices at a time?
password4or ever?
weyland|yutanipassword4, per project
password4ok
password4that does not sound too bad
password4I'vealways wanted to attempt a paculier type of licensing scheme
password4but i doubt I'll ever make software people would be willing to pay for
password4meh
password4spleelling
heibolit's free if you do and approve the course of its webside
password4i want to make a copy middle license
password4where yhou are obliged to give away N amount off licenses to whomever in order to purchase one
TheTrashhttps://www.dbad-license.org/
password4hah
heibolI'm a fan
weyland|yutanipassword4, well you could sell unsuspecting tourists licences for beachfront houses in Pietermaritzburg ;D
password4stalk much?
password4but seriously
cheaterhow is knx different from X10?
password4what would you think of a licensing scheme where you get minimum 5 licenses , 4 of whichyou HAVE to give away
password4so if you want to try it , you either have to wait for someone to gift it to you , or buy it
bongofuryhah, my first time seeing the dbad
bongofurythat's generally how I've always approached using free software
weyland|yutanicheater, for starters there is mostly no KNX wireless or anything else its strictly twisted pair to every device
weyland|yutanicheater, there is knx rf and knx over powerline but its mostly never used
heibolcheater: KNX is a standard
password4meh
weyland|yutanicheater, you cun build very large networks with it 65536 devices max with topologies stretching upto 4000 meters
password4for the sake of being ot , who have love plants?
heibolI think the standards are KNX, LOXONE and ZWAVE
weyland|yutanicheater, and its not only for lighting or opening your garage door you can also do HVAC
kcrowCAW
weyland|yutaniACTION gets the gun out "damn crows again!!!"
password4i feel like buying wheat
kcrowACTION flies off
tpw_rulesis thre any way to make a NI-GPIB-USB-B work on modern hardware
weyland|yutanion a unrelated note magpies hurt a cow so much they had to kill her
SpeedEvilA proper virtualiser running an old version of windows seem to be likely to work
tpw_ruleshm
heibolI'll be here often, trying to help. :)
archivisttpw_rules, will it even fit the bus
tpw_rulesarchivist: ??
tpw_rulesalso i meant modern pc hardware
archivisttpw_rules, many were not PCI bus but ISA
tpw_rulesit's usb
tpw_rulesbut NI doesn't make drivers for it anymore
archivistI have have a controller with no driver too.....grmbl
archivistmay find linux support for it though
archivisthttps://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~osc22/tutorials/gpib_usb_linux.html
archivistthat should wean you off windaz :)
goldstarwhat multi-testers are good for reasonable voltages ? i.e. 230v
archivistgood or cheap
tawrdont use a 5 dollar meter on mains voltage.
archivist5 dolla is not mucg to worry about when the smoke gets out, get another
goldstargood quality of course
goldstarmoney is not an isuse
e36freakthere's this thing call input protection
e36freakfluke
tawr5 dollars is cheap enough there is no safety between you and mains
heibolfluke is the best
e36freakgoldstar: what are you actually measuring?
e36freakdifferent models have different features
JFK911use the free meter on mains
JFK911no problems
goldstare36freak: appliance diagnostics
JFK911the shit is cat II
e36freaktrue, but meh
JFK911i love good tools but i love even more preserving my good tools by getting as much as i can from the asian junk
goldstarI've already got some fluke gear and was going to get a fluke MM but just wanted to see what else is out there
e36freaki have an owon meter that's relatively cheap (compared to my fluke), with decent input protection and a lot of features
archivistbecause you are in a rough environment I tend to use cheaper stuff for that
e36freakb35t i think. it's my beater meter
tawrthat's so strange to me
tawri use good tools in rough environments so they work.
archivistdropping stuff onto the gear!
e36freakno doubt, yes. but i don't take it where it could get lost or stolen
e36freakit's like trunk/truck tools vs toolbox tools
JFK911exactly e36freak
heiboltpw_rules: try to find some "driver" or software in Github
archivistthat one I found is on sourceforge https://sourceforge.net/projects/linux-gpib/files/
gurkiwell you dont buy ni stuff to try to get things to work with linux, really
gurkiits way overpriced if you dont use that ni environment
gurkiwhich is pretty sane imho
archivistgurki, did you miss the unavailable for NI bit
gurkiarchivist: well id just use some vm with last windows supporting it
gurkiwell i can skip that i would im doing just that atm
gurki;)
gurkisad thing that most opensource hardware for gpib wont give you some gpib device but just some converter to whatever
gurkirendering them kind of useless for general usage :/
gurki(prove me wrong and im a happy gurki, ording some pcb 10 minutes later :P )
gurkiordering*
archivistthat is why an open driver for the closed hardware seems the middle road
SoniI need 1500W at 1V...
gurkiarchivist: sadly thats not helping
gurkiyou kind of need that driver package with labview or the whole thing is pretty much useless
Sonican I put 1V chips in series?
archivistmost of the open hardware gpib I have looked at miss importan bits
gurkithere is no advantage of a generic gpib device if it doesnt communicate with the labview/matlab tools
gurkiwhich are bound to the original drivers :(
archivistyou dont have to use labview
gurkibut you should
archivistnooo
gurkiwell. its some ecosystem decision. with a lot of strong oppinions
gurkii guess ud agree that if i paid for ni hw i should use the benefits of paying the ni premium
gurkias otherwise i can get $generic thingy for cheaper
archivistI dont like getting into pay through the nose ware
gurkii like getting stuff done. fast. labview/matlab lets me do that
gurkii am pretty sure you can do the same with other approaches. but not quite as fast
synx508the labview stuff is for losers
gurkitotally.
kcrowI found labview and matlab as useful tools in the lab I built, it was not for losers, it is for winners
kcrowand the stock value shows it
synx508yes, it's popular and valuable
gurkiim sure synx508 is so cool he codes everything in butterflies :)
gurkiworking next year or so :P
kcrowCavium Inc (NASDAQ:CAVM): 66.32 (-2.210, -3.22%) (Vol:1.25M
kcrow)
QuatermassSoni: NOP
SoniQuatermass: nop?
synx508I have this issue with super-popular software, it's not that it's bad or a waste of time, usually quite the opposite. My beef is with monoculture
Quatermassis that to do with electronics?
synx508yes, it is
ThePendulumdamn I haven't used labview in maybe 1½ decades, used to just play with it having no idea what I'm doing as a kid
Quatermassdo continue to elaborate
synx508for a lot of jobs you're likely to do, you can use a few lines of any high level language
synx508all the old HPIB code samples demonstrate this quite well, they literally ran on calculators
Soniwhere can I get a 1500A PSU?
e36freakSoni: internet
bobo1on1ACTION just hooked up some planar tweeters :)
kcrow¡ ʍɐʞ ¡¡ ʍɐʞ
bongofuryhah
bongofuryupsidedown bird
synx508it's a sign
bobo1on1australian? :)
kmchi kcrow
kmcSoni: lol what for
Soni51%
kcrowıɥ
weyland|yutanikcrow, get down from there you are not a bat and not batman
tawrlol
kcrowcaw :(
weyland|yutanihttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLqInoHDZ4g
electrobotweyland|yutani just linked to Bird wants to be a bat - YouTube
tawrACTION pokes kcrow with a stick, damn roosting batkrows
tawrsame time on my screen weyland|yutani
kcrownot a moonbat !
FuchikomaDo I want to buy some pressure transducers that I don't really need but would make my proejct a bit fancier? :/
synx508yes
Fuchikoma:E
Fuchikoma$13 each
beanbag-what's a good electronics simulator
bobo1on1ltspice
FuchikomaHow good do you need it?
bobo1on1man these planar tweeters are nice
SpeedEvilI prefer four dimensional tweeters, a much kliener sound.
kmcbeanbag-: http://www.falstad.com/circuit/circuitjs.html is great for learning concepts and how various circuits work qualitatively
kmci wouldn't trust it to choose component values
kmcand some tricky circuits don't work at all
kmclike i don't think the joule thief works in falstad
bobo1on1SpeedEvil: well these won't exist forever :)
synx508in what sense are planar tweeters planar?
bobo1on1well they traveled here by plane
synx508ACTION googles and is shown what appear to be ribbon tweeters
bobo1on1https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Air-motion-transformer-tweeter-AMT-used-for-DIY-HiFI-audio-and-Car-speaker-8OHM-15W/32720602323.html
beanbag-anyone tried to measure the quedescent current of a joule thief
bobo1on1they are planar because they have a foil on a copper track that makes the sound
bobo1on1copper track on a foil I mean
bobo1on1a ribbon tweeter is different, it has a foil ribbon that makes the sound
FuchikomaPurchased :E
kcrowtweeters are for the young
bobo1on1yes, old folk can't hear the high frequencies
kcrowexactly
kcrowhence mosquito ring "tones"
Johnjayi've never even installed a car stereo
JohnjayI do want to install a car crockpot though.
synx508my father-in-law has ribbon tweeters in his speakers and sneers in the general direction of my soft dome tweeters, due to their horrible pattern, phase and frequency response. His ribbon tweeters do sound nicer, to be fair
synx508even with knackered hearing I can tell the difference
bobo1on1I've never heard one before
python476the avg price for safe 18650 is about 5$ right ?
python476a quick ebay check for 100pcs packs is around 450 / 550
sophiyaprobably
sophiyaif you're getting 18650s for €.05 they're probably terrible
kcrowACTION likes Z-80s 
python4760.05$ I'd risk my life for that
cheaterkcrow: they're talking about batteries, not 8-bit cpus
python476panasonic 68000 are good though
cheaterkcrow: i think you're thinking about 6510
kcrownonetheless, I have a useful Z-80
cheateror 8500
cheateri'd love to mess around with a z80 at some point
kcrowI wish it ran at 4 gigahetrz
SpeedEvilI have one working Z80 system I think
SpeedEvilhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambridge_Z88
SpeedEvilStill boots on 4AAs
python476i always thought zilog was a crap toy company (the z sounded cheap to me)
python476until I learned it was Faggin spin off after intel
python476anybody saw 2170 cells btw ?
kcrowBehold the Power of Thor:
weyland|yutaninever judge a book by its cover
kcrowhttps://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipPBrrup3pv25l0Cch4oHJNp87FpZgXagGi77m8YN98pv2j3-Gq2t9AkM5VAm-0lvA/photo/AF1QipOQ2k2-CBfgQHyEgFJRRYk7g_SGcNVRO62qPNja?key=eVpwRlNsMjcxYjlDRXdPMjdWOU4xM1R5ekpUeVR3
cheaterthor, huh?
cheaterwhy thor?
kcrowToday is
kcrowThor's Day
kcrow:)
python4761989 MFJ corporation ?
kcrowyes
cheaterpython476: how does it compare to AA?
kcrowpeople often make fun of MFJ product but I have had no issues with their hardware
python476cheater: I dont know much except it's supposed to be a higher capacity 18650
cheateri meant in size
cheateri guess bigger
python47621 x 70 (0) he
python476seems quite fattier
python476kcrow: I just never saw that company name, is it from of PC class device ?
Mangy_Dogthe common 74LCV245 chip... Am i right in saying even though your only feeding 3.3v on one side. It is bi directional?
Mangy_Dogoh ffs, i just now realised I dont need it
Mangy_Dogthe logic out of my mcu is already 3.3 v
zigggggyhey kludge!!!!!
zigggggyMangy_Dog!!!!
zigggggyACTION barks at Mangy_Dog
Mangy_DogACTION wavies to a zigggggggggy
Mangy_DogACTION barks
zigggggy:D
Mangy_DogACTION throws a borg cube at zigggggy
Mangy_Doghttps://i.imgur.com/4SGXydc.jpg
zigggggyMangy_Dog https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-80SGWfEjM
electrobotzigggggy just linked to The Secret Life Of Pets - Official Teaser Trailer (HD) - Illumination - YouTube
zigggggywatch!
Mangy_Doghehe
Mangy_Dogi intend to watch that film when it hits netflix
kcrowpython476: MFJ is a well known manufacturer of ham radio accessories
kcrowhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MFJ_Enterprises
kludgeACTION waves to zigggggy!
kcrowhttp://www.mfjenterprises.com/
kludgeAnd that's not well-known in a good way.
zigggggyMangy_Dog :D watch that trailer! kludge laughed
kcrowkludge has been right in so many things
zigggggyexcept about cheese
zigggggyhe is very wrong about cheese
kcrowperhaps my MFJ stuff is from such ancient times that it still works
kludgeI am totally right about cheese. It is milk that has gone bad.
kludgeWhy would you put bad milk in your mouth?
weyland|yutanii can attest that my dog is also a truther and thinks squirrels want to take over our world
kcrowI would guess that kludge is also right about cheese
bobo1on1that's what she said
kcrowummmmm
zigggggykcrow so you hate cheese too?!
kcrowmaybe it is debatable
kludgeACTION laughs.
python476ACTION likes ham and radio
kcrowmicrowave bacon ?
kludgeThey got me a new computer at work, it is much much slower than the old one.
weyland|yutani:(
kcrowcr0ws are partial to microwaved bacon
kcrowactually ANY bacon ;)
kludgeHey, when did Autodesk take over Eagle?
kcrowkludge: we call that "progress"
kludgeI am having to reinstall eagle on the new machine.
canhello #channel
zigggggyACTION opens can
zigggggycan!
kludgecannot, zigggggy.
zigggggykludge :D
kcrowkaw !
bobo1on1kludge: about a year ago I think
kludgebobo1on1: I am not happy. I did manage to find eagle 5.11 online though.
bobo1on1I have 6.6 if you need it
kludgebobo1on1: I think my license is only good through 5.
bobo1on1ah
kludgeI installed the new one and it wanted me to create an account at autodesk... no way.
python476oh god
python476I want to buy mices and give them wheels to run forever
python476and plug that to a transformer
python476:evilgenius:
kludgepython476: too small. Capybaras, maybe.
bobo1on1I think the mice will disagree with you
weyland|yutanikludge, congratulations you are now a proud member of your commercially available botnet, smile and enjoy your stay.
python476https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/11/06/a-pill-to-make-exercise-obsolete apparently the mice run miles each night
kmclike i don't take enough pills already
kmclmao
birkoffhttps://i.imgur.com/knZhCEC.jpg
birkoffAny1 recognises the power socket?
python476this pill is almost tempting
python476birkoff: US ?
bobo1on1birkoff: that's not a power socket, that's a place to store the horrible english plug
birkoffI found this tv woth no power cable
python476bobo1on1: its just a convenience holder ?
bobo1on1yes
birkoffSpecial cable?
bobo1on1the power input must be somwhere else
python476i like these big black english cables
birkoffIts a philips 332
birkoff32pfl3008h/12
kludgeRemember what happened to Elvis, python476.
restorerhow annoying that my address "isn't available" for USPS's Informed Delivery
_abc_Interesting new things wrt sparse matrix solvers, pertinent to SPICE, Oregano, etc, which all use sparse matrix solvers.
_abc_https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/11/02/taco_ai_kernel_sparse_matrices/
_abc_Will be nice if it 'speeds up solving 100 times'. Too nice to be true. But, who knows.
_abc_And it's open source.
python476kludge: has the CIA released Elvis' documents yet ?
restorerprobably just because I'm in a new apartment building and they take forever to make updates, like any US government department
birkoffCan u link me to buy one python
python476birkoff: a UK cable ?
kludgepython476: Can they? His drugstore bill alone must take several trucks to transport.
python476I don't live in the UK, I just have one UK cable from a ebay laptop buy
_abc_hehe kludge
python476kludge: it's 2017, we have the technology, we can store it
birkoffIts the one fpund in laptops?
kludgepython476: I think it should have its own hall in the Smithsonian to provide valuable data for future scholars.
_abc_SpeedEvil: remember what I said yesterday or so about Tesla and taxes on electric vehicles? And slanted playing ground due to such taxes? https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/11/02/tesla_share_price_drop_tax_break/
kludge_abc_: Now they will have a tax break on vehicles costing $500k or more.
_abc_Of course. Especially Hummers which have excellent gallons per mile performance.
python476birkoff: it's just an UK plug
python476don't over think
kludgeIt's not just ANY uk plug. It's the LATEST uk plug.
birkoffDont know id they sell it where i live
birkoffIf*
_abc_Is that the HUGE thing which requires 2 real men to insert and remove? With a fuse in it and contacts elsewhere rated 50A or more?
kludgebirkoff: why do you care?
birkoffWe use eu rounded plugs
birkoffCare for what?!
kludgebirkoff: then remove the BS plug and put an EU plug on.
kludgeCare whether they sell it where you live.
_abc_birkoff: fwiw most dollar shops and travel shops sell 'universal' plug to plug adapters, so you can fry your 110V rated electronics with 220V anywhere. they acommodate any plug and provide prongs for any plug. Find one.
birkoffCuz i need it?
python476the Trump administration is such an insult
birkoffI bave 220v over here
kludgebirkoff: Because you are desperate to use the accessory outlet?
birkoffWhat?
_abc_https://www.amazon.com/Insten-Universal-Travel-Charger-Adapter/dp/B000YN01X4 birkoff similar to this.
_abc_birkoff: there are versions by country.
kludgebirkoff: you have a TV set with a british plug on it and a british accessory outlet in the back. You change the plug on the cord and you ignore the accessory outlet.
_abc_https://www.amazon.com/dp/B074QMDBXF/ref=sspa_dk_detail_5?psc=1&pd_rd_i=B074QMDBXF&pd_rd_wg=RS1kv&pd_rd_r=QBTJ8XB4DRRFSXQTZM45&pd_rd_w=OQ9ex another one
birkoffWhats the diff between acc. Outlet and plug
birkoffNo i dont have plug on back
_abc_Basically it's got 'holes' for 'any' plug and prongs for 'any' wall hole pop out the other end depending on which lever you depress.
_abc_birkoff: Outlet is the thing you plug the plug into.
kludgebirkoff: the accessory outlet is what you plug the VCR or the table lamp into to get power for the VCR or table lamp.
kludgeoutlet = jack = female, plug = male.
birkoffI dont have a uk plug ib my residence
_abc_err jacks are male usually, I think?
kludgebirkoff: Then what is the problem?
birkoffIs the uk plug two ways?
birkoffKludge
birkoffIts a tv i found
kludgebirkoff: The thing you showed the picture of is female, it provides power to an accessory. It is NOT the power input to the device.
birkoffNo pwr cable
birkoffNo normal socket either
kludgebirkoff: is there a place where the cord was cut off then?
birkoffOh
birkoffIm trying to find that out
_abc_https://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/05/31/itif_bemoans_quality_of_us_it_courses/ this explains a lot.
birkoffSo where does this tv takes power from?
birkoffFound nothing on the manual online
_abc_It works on hot air when you watch political shows.
_abc_No, seriously, there HAS GOT to be a power inlet.
kludgebirkoff: from a power cord that was likely cut off... look for the end of the cord somewhere on the outer edge.
_abc_birkoff: ^
birkoffNope
_abc_99% of modern tvs have a female IEC or other (3 pin usually) mains connector. You can tell this is an input because the connector is MALE. It has pins, not holes. The pins may be recessed.
_abc_birkoff: does your tv have such a connector with PINS on it?
birkoffThere isnt even buttons
_abc_birkoff: the 'British' connector you talk about does not happen to resemble this, right? http://www.futurlec.com/Pictures/IECMALESOCKETSN.jpg
_abc_birkoff: ?
birkoffOh hold on i think i found smtn
_abc_birkoff: did you see the pic I linked?
kludge_abc_: yes, he showed a picture of a female british power jack on the back of the TV.
_abc_kludge: uh?
birkoffOk i found hidden ports on the recline right to where i pictured
birkoff"hidden
birkoffTheres black and yellow port
birkoffTheres a wheel like switch for on off stndby
kludge_abc_: presumably an accessory outlet:
_abc_birkoff: do you have a phone? Shoot a pic of the back and upload it?
birkoffSideav
birkoffOne says
birkoffThe other like earphones around it
synx508there's only one "British" power jack that I know about and that's the 3 pin round Bulgin connectors that RACAL used to us
synx508+e
OdinYggdMeanwhile in tawr's toolbox https://i.imgur.com/aejbkzg.jpg
synx508and you wouldn't see that on a TV or anything made this century
_abc_synx508: Everyone else on this planet refers to the massive BSxxx connector as 'the British connector'
kludgesynx508: there are a million of them including BS546 but he means BS1363.
birkoffhttps://i.imgur.com/C1yJGO5.jpg
_abc_birkoff: ok, the mains cable input will be on another side.
_abc_birkoff: like bottom
synx508that connector never appears on appliances
_abc_or back
synx508like EVER
bongofuryhahah... what's the bottom one, OdinYggd?
OdinYggdA cutting torch body.
OdinYggdNeeds a tip and fuel/oxy hoses
kludgesynx508: what, the Bulgin connector? I have a teakettle with it, and also a couple radios.
kludgesynx508: Including an Eddystone radio whose dial is marked in feet of wavelength.
_abc_teakettle? You have a 240V teakettle in usa kludge?
kludge_abc_: I do!
synx508kludge, that hasn't been used since the early 80s, though
kludge_abc_: I am preparing to get a 240V coconut milking machine!
_abc_kludge: your house wiring must be so illegal you have signs for firefighters at the street gate
Spirit532oxy/ace cutting torch
Spirit532also known as: you better fucking have hearing protection
kludge_abc_: No, I have correct twist-lock 250V connectors in the kitchen.
_abc_kludge: are you even allowed to wire and power a proper Schuko female plug in a US home?
birkoffhttps://i.imgur.com/EPxuUEs.jpg
bongofurycool
kludge_abc_: no schukos. NEMA twists.
LoRezkludge: I like the cut of your jib
_abc_Are Schukos not allowed or is it your preferrence?
kludge_abc_: I don't think Schukos are allowed, and I don't like the flat-blade 250V connectors.
synx508that isn't a connector, it's where you store the plug when it's being transported
birkoffThats all that i can see
synx508to stop it flapping around
kludgebirkoff: that is because the cord was cut off. Look around the bottom and around the back and see where the stub is where they cut the cable off.
_abc_birkoff: I think kludge is right.
kludge_abc_: nema 6-15 is what they would normally use in the US for small 220V appliances but twists are nicer.
_abc_birkoff: the 'female' BS*** receptacle is used to store the cable when not in use.
_abc_birkoff: it has no contacts
birkoffI see
kludge_abc_: that would make sense. Either way, it's not relevant.
python476im looking for safety goggles and gloves, 3M is good I suppose ?
birkoffLogical...
kcrowpython476: yes, good stuff
birkoffBut i dont see anything on the bottom
_abc_kludge: I think your twists are better than the 'combined' Shcukos we have here, they now have a 'French' style polarizing pin for ground too.
_abc_*Schuko
kludgepython476: I don't like the 3M visitor's goggles but other than that they are good.
python476visors you mean ?
_abc_birkoff: you are looking for a cable feedthrough. A small hole maybe the size of your fingertip.
synx508TV is likely scrap if the cable has been cut off
birkoffI gave u pics
kludgepython476: No, I like the big 3M visors. But the little over-your-glasses things I don't like.
birkoffNpthong that seem like cut cable
kcrowpython476: I equipped a lab with eye and hearing protection with 3m products
python476kludge: I see (npi)
_abc_birkoff: the hole with the blank bare metal to the left of the 'BS***' recepacle is a good candidate. Ref your https://i.imgur.com/EPxuUEs.jpg
python476I found some that seem thick and "chemical projection safe" too
kludgepython476: The 3M ones are rigid and not too heavy. The Uvex ones weigh a ton and make me sweat.
python476considering I have issues with headphones Ill avoid uvex..
kludgepython476: if they are uncomfortable people won't wear them.
kludgeAnd then they'll take the spring off the chuck key.
python476comfortable is relative
kludgeHaving a big piece of metal in your face is not comfortable.
birkoffU must be right
birkoffhttps://olxpl-ring05.akamaized.net/images_tablicapl/497254878_2_644x461_tv-philips-32pfl3008h-12-rezerwacja-dodaj-zdjecia_rev003.jpg
birkoffFor comparison
kludgebirkoff: right, so what is on your TV where that cord is on this one?
birkoffNo fox for that?
_abc_birkoff: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJtjL5TUCBY skip to +2:40-2:45 where you can see the power cable where I told you it should be
electrobot_abc_ just linked to PHILIPS 32PFL3008H/12. LED TV. Repair. voice is. no picture on the screen. - YouTube
kludgefox?
_abc_birkoff: ^
_abc_fix!
birkoffFix...
_abc_birkoff: did you see the movie and the pic? It also shows how to take it apart.
birkoffSmartphones keyboard...
_abc_birkoff: screw locations and all.
birkoffIll watch it
_abc_spill checking is useless without context.
birkoffThe pic i gave showed it has wire where now no
_abc_Huh.
_abc_birkoff: the wire goes where the hole is to the left of the 'BS***' socket.
kludgewow, this machine is so slow.
synx508I have found a photo of the insides of that TV
birkoffYeah i see it abc
birkoffCan i fix mine port
_abc_birkoff: so using the video open the tv and look inside
synx508the mains cable connects via a two pin connector on the left of the board, roughly above where the stand attaches
_abc_birkoff: then you should see WHY someone removed the cable.
_abc_birkoff: specifically to prebent someone else from starting a fire with it.
birkoffI hope very cheaply because the screen is scratched
synx508and it's one of those cables with the moulded strain relief, that slots into the case of the TV
_abc_birkoff: most likely someone used the power supply board to fix another tv
_abc_synx508: it slots into the chassis in front of the hole in the plastic
kludgeWhich is bad since whatever (capacitors) failed on the original are probably about to fail (capacitors) on the pull from this TV.
synx508apparently the TV is known to have various faults
birkoffA fire?
synx508including PSU
_abc_birkoff: yes!
kludgesynx508: it rots your brains out.
synx508probably
birkoffSo not vandalism?
_abc_ACTION has various tv like things but no subscription and does not intend to get one
_abc_birkoff: certainly not.
kludgesynx508: My mom says you'll just be watching Gilligan and the Skipper and your brain will fall right out into your lap because it's all rotted.
_abc_birkoff: you can think of it as constructive destruction, polite too.
kludgesynx508: And THEN where will you be?
birkoffWhat after opening?
synx508kludge, you'll be sitting there, looking at your own rotten brain
_abc_birkoff: just check that everything is there and no missing boards
birkoffAnd the cable?
_abc_birkoff: you will have to provide your own
_abc_Assuming there's something you can connect it to.
synx508I would not worry about the cable until you know the TV is inside the box
kludgebirkoff: You may find the cable is missing, you may find more than that is missing, you will know when you get the screws out.
birkoffI can see a red wire without opening
_abc_http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20171102 on topic
synx508people are so mean. I used to work at a place that repaired TVs and quite often people would arrive with TVs that they'd bought "cheap" that were mostly robbed of parts
kludgebirkoff: it is always an adventure with this sort of thing because you are inheriting something that somebody else failed to fix AND whatever damage they did when they tried to fix it.
birkoffWhat exactly and where should I look?
kcrowthat can be quite an adventure
_abc_synx508: say thanks that they removed the mains cord. It's an early warning.
_abc_synx508: I've had such with no removed cord.
_abc_Not nice.
kludge_abc_ and synx508: TV repair video: ##electronics
kludgehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Paj43J0pi4s
electrobotkludge just linked to Sesame Street: TV Repair - YouTube
_abc_hmm?
_abc_oh heh
birkoffAbc u mean I.?
_abc_https://imgur.com/gallery/bSo5KSu kludge
_abc_https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/1su47n/good_guy_ace_hardware_keeping_idiots_alive_during/ from @
birkoffWhat kind of cable would i need any way
bobo1on1I would almost buy a piece of wire and two plugs there
_abc_:) bobo1on1 did you see the link?
bobo1on1and then come back later with my hands in bandages and but the female versions too
_abc_Your *heart* in bandages more likely. Wait, that's a mummy!
_abc_https://i.imgur.com/BadK1n5.jpg Hahaha! Clippy Halloween costume.
kludge_abc_: we call that a "suicide cord" and you will see people use them on generators to backhaul power into a mains output.
_abc_Scary!
_abc_kludge: I know. Also to 'help' a neighbor whose lights conked out.
kludge_abc_: also known as a "Polish Extension Cord."
_abc_HAHA
_abc_Strange, I don't see any Bonzi Buddy purple muppet Halloween costumes. I guess it was too long ago and or it affected too few people.
bobo1on1people forgot I guess
bobo1on1you could still install the software though
_abc_It was a real pest to get rid of, I think the back doors it used to usurp your browser have been walled up literally last century.
kcrowACTION oils the hinges on the back doors
_abc_http://malware.wikia.com/wiki/BonziBUDDY this page does not render properly but, here it is for reference.
_abc_Interesting the X11 program xroach is not installed here. Haven't seen it in like 20 years in fact.
_abc_Oh it was ported to GTK as groach.
bobo1on1as long as it has sl
_abc_sk?
_abc_*sl
bobo1on1yes
_abc_What is sl?
bobo1on1https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPMd2dsSVR0
electrobotbobo1on1 just linked to sl command on linux - YouTube
bobo1on1it's for when you mistype ls
kcrowI ALWAYS install sl on systems
_abc_heh
kcrowespecially if others will use it
kcrow:)
_abc_https://mirrors.slackware.com/slackware/slackware64-14.2/source/xap/xgames/xroach.tar.gz.mirrorlist here we go
kmcyes
kmcand cowsay
kcrowand xcowsay
kcrowxnuisance used to be mnore pupolar
kcrowpopular
kmci would do an xhost + on my coworkers' computers
kmcthen launch xeyes and stuff
kcrowbut due to the declining computer literacy, not so much anymore
kcrowexactly!
_abc_What is a computer? You mean windows, right?
kcrowno
kcrowthat is schloackware
kmccomputer? what's that? I just have this hermetically sealed iPad and I only run apps approved by Apple, they know what's best for me
synx508sheep.exe on windows was brilliant
kmc:(
synx508IIRC it works on WINE too
cheateri do all my computing on my samsung smart tv
kmcwha's that one do
_abc_cheater: samsung, smart. Tv. Pick any one?
cheaterok _abc_
kcrow a smart tv would not allow itself to be used ;)
_abc_I once spent 2 hours shutting down Sammyware bundled apps on a Galaxy. When I was done, the phone ran like greased lightning and stopped overheating.
n4axeor c:/con/con
ZeroWalkerdo i understand it right when SPI forces you to send something in order to receive something?
kmcZeroWalker: correct
_abc_ZeroWalker: you can usually send '0's if the receiver does not care / or there is no receiver
ZeroWalkeri want to receive something, and the sender doesn't care
porfaHello!
majukohai
kcrowHi
jcjordyn120Heyo
ZeroWalkerconfused if i want to be the master or slave though, the sender will handle the clocks, so i am guessing that would make me, the receiver the slave?
ZeroWalkerguten tag!
kmcmaster runs the clock
kmcalways
kmctherefore the master decides how fast communication goes
kmcand the slave(s) have to deal with it
ZeroWalkerbut the slaves simply checks for a "1" and then reads, and it just have to be fast enough to not miss those?
kmcSPI can go very fast
bobo1on1not only that, but the master decides when communicatoin happens
bobo1on1which can be annoying
kmcthe slave reads MOSI and/or writes MISO each time that the clock changes from high to low, or from low to high (just one of these, but it's not standardized: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_Peripheral_Interface_Bus#Clock_polarity_and_phase)
kmcand if you have multiple slaves, you need a separate chip select line for each
kmcthis can be a GPIO; there's no need for it to be part of special SPI hardware although sometimes that is provided
bobo1on1on the other hand, because the master provides a clock, you can make very cheap slaves, because they don't have to make their own clock, like an ADC for example
_abc_You can also daisy chain the slaves and use the same CS line
kmcthis is unlike I2C where the chip is selected by an address
_abc_They do not only not need to make their own clock, they can be simple MSI shift registers like HC165 HC595 etc.
kmcI2C even supports multi-master configurations
_abc_I2C sucks. SMB is slightly less sucky and usable I2C
kmcSPI is much faster and as bobo1on1 said, requires very little hardware (you can build a SPI device even out of discrete logic chips prettyeasily)
python476war of the buses
_abc_The slave clock stretch thing and multi master specs in I2C are a pan
_abc_pain
kmcthere are also parallel versions of SPI with 2 or 4 data lines per direction
bobo1on1I hate i2c
_abc_I don't hate it, it is a niche, it works well on a tv or vcr inside it.
_abc_When people use it on 30m cable it gets my gut.
kmcyeah
kmcthat's not good
bobo1on1open collector on a cable that long is a bad idea for anything
kmcuse RS-485 or something for that
filadomedoes seeed fusion allow non rectangular boards?
kmcbobo1on1: hell yes. though if you have to, you can have multiple pullups right? or does that create current loops
_abc_bobo1on1: it's not a bad idea, that's how old phone cable works, telex, etc. But not at 100kHz and 3V
kmcthere's a reason both RS-485 and CAN is differential
bobo1on1you still get impedance differences between going up or down
_abc_kmc: you need to try and match the cable as well as you can, at the end, and make all in between stations cope with it
kmccommon mode noise rejection
_abc_kmc: SCSI cable matching is an example on how it is done.
kmc_abc_: yeah. it needs terminators right?
kmclike any transmission line
_abc_You can make SCSI perform some interesting magick, like 6m of cable with terminations at both ends and nice 25MHz over it
kmcI've heard in some industrial applications the common mode voltage spikes on RS-4xx lines can be way larger than the differential signal
_abc_kmc: yes
johntrampI have used i2c on long cables with bus extender ICs at each end with good results
_abc_kmc: basically all non transformer coupled tl's are a can of worms.
kmcyeah
_abc_Basic Ethernet is so sane and reliable because they did not kill the magnetics to save a penny
kmcthere's a lot of good stuff about this in AoE
_abc_All the others limp behind
kmc_abc_: yes
kmcare thicknet / thinnet also magnetically coupled?
_abc_Note there ARE magnetic less etherned PHYs.
_abc_Those tend to die early.
kmclol
_abc_Microchip makes some iirc
kmccheapo china shit?
kmchuh
bobo1on1those suck
_abc_Low cost / miniature
kmcwill it piss off other devices on the network?
kmccan't you buy an ethernet jack with proper magnetics built in?
_abc_No, but the 1st glitch will get the mag less PHY
bobo1on1they are capacitively coupled afaik
_abc_bobo1on1: they are assumed to be floating
_abc_Which is true for an embedded device until something goes wrong
bobo1on1they assume the other side to be transformer coupled?
_abc_Of course.
bobo1on1ugh
kmclol
_abc_It's like 4-20mA loops. Everyone assumes the other side is potential free to save a penny. This results in buying more expensive gear after the bang, which does not assume this.
kmcSomeone Else's Problem
_abc_Just compiled xroach from source, does not do anything here. X11R6.
banandanawatch debang 2
cheateryea magnetic free eth phy's suck ass
banandanadebangg 2
banandanaerr
_abc_http://www.ti.com/lit/an/snla088a/snla088a.pdf transformerless Ethernet operation from ti.com
banandanadabangg 2
banandanahttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dabangg_2
tawr OdinYggd rofl yeaaaa
_abc_http://ww1.microchip.com/downloads/en/AppNotes/Capacitive%20Coupling%20Ethernet%20Transceivers%20without%20Using%20Transformers.pdf the microchip one
gkwhchi, might anyone be familiar with USB-C/3 docking stations? do they charge your laptop via USB? can one use the laptop screen along with two other monitors connected?
gurkigkwhc: i think ##hardware might be more fit for that question
RoChessgkwhc, some do, others don't, check specs
HrdwrBoB^^ that
HrdwrBoBthe answer is that it CAN.
ZeroWalkerwell i can't even seem go be able to start the damn SPI on STM32, it's so confusing with all the commands and difference wrappers and whatnot
kmcZeroWalker: i know, right? :(
kmcbut Arduino or mbed should handle it for you
kmcpoking registers one by one is a pain.
kmcI'ma try to get mbed working on my blue pills
kmchave a project in mind -- LED decorations for my purse, with bluetooth control from my smart watch
ZeroWalkeri am using Arduino, and i actually find the abstraction a pain as i can't tell what it does, it just says something like "spi_begin", and there are 2 spi, which one, and begin what
kmcah
kmcyeah
ZeroWalkera cool
kmcArduino software is of course originally designed around AVR
kmcwhich is much simpler
kmcAVR for example doesn't have like 20 different clock / power domains
ZeroWalkerah
cheatergkwhc: generally charging via USB is one of the ideas behind USB C. how well that works depends on the device.
cheatergkwhc: all in all it's not yet a very well established technology.
cart_manCan someone please tell me what I am suppose to do with this question -> https://imgur.com/a/VhY8M
kmcso most STM32 peripherals don't work until you enable their clock/power domain
kmcarduino env should handle that for you
kmcbut, who knows
Peasant65Hey, I got a weird audio problem. I got 2 PC´s hooked up to an RCA switch whitch put´s the signal trough to an amp+speakers. Now when I have 1 pc hooked up everything´s fine, but when I have 2 pc´s hooked up i´m getting a distortion/noise when I move my mouse/open programs etc
ZeroWalkeryeah i have no clue, and the documentation is kinda vauge on most things, but it might just be me not seeing the obvious;p
Smidge204How are you connecting 2 PCs at the same time?
Smidge204And why
kmcdid you find http://www.stm32duino.com/viewtopic.php?t=278
Smidge204Just an A/B switch I hope?
kmcZeroWalker: ^
kmchttps://github.com/rogerclarkmelbourne/Arduino_STM32/wiki/SPI
ZeroWalkeryeah actually tried that one;s
Peasant65yes, only 1 channel can be active at a time
kmcyeah I think there are multiple implementations of the Arduino API for STM32, maybe?
kmcthat would confuse things
kmcI'd rather use mbed
kmcmy china brand st-link has arrived
Smidge204You're probably picking up noise on the ground, since the only ground is through the audio cables
Peasant65Smidge204, Not at the same time, it just switches audio between my PC and my tv box
ozzzydoes it switch both ground and signal?
ZeroWalkermaybe, i mean there's like a ton of SPI that seems to do the same things, and i have no clue which one to use, or if you are supposed to combine them;S
Peasant65ozzzy, I don´t know
ZeroWalkerthere's SPI1 which seems to be the register for, i guess SPI1? but then there's SPI which is a wrapper, but no clue for which SPI
ozzzyuse your DMM to make sure that the grounds aren't shared
Peasant65https://www.allekabels.nl/rca-kabel/5829/1039945/rca-schakelaar.html ozzzy
Peasant65This is the product i´m talking about
ozzzydoesn't help me at all
ZeroWalkerspi_slave_enable(SPI1, SPI_MODE_LOW_FALLING, SPI_RX_ONLY);
ZeroWalker SPI.beginSlave();
ZeroWalker spi_peripheral_enable(SPI1);
Voopquestion about nixie tubes
Voophi tawr
Peasant65:/ The whole issue is gone as soon as I disconnect 1 of the sources (so only 1 source is connected)
ZeroWalkerdamn new lines, sry.. but yeah to me this is very confusing, what does what do xd
Voopwhat do i need besides a dc power supply of the appropriate voltage to run it
Voopis an additional resistor all i need
kmcZeroWalker: I find Arduino related code is usually of poor quality
kmccheck out mbed, for real
kmcthere are other options as well
kmc"usually" might be harsh, but often.
ZeroWalkeri couldn't get that to work, probably cause i don't have SLINK2 yet and use USB
kmcohh
kmcso you need the bootloader
kmcright
ZeroWalkeryeah i got the bootloader
kmcwell, buy a knockoff st-link for $2 on ali
kmcif you can
kmcI know it might take a long time to ship to whatever weird country you live in ;)
tawrhi Voop
ZeroWalkeryeah ordered it a long time ago, no clue when i will get it;d
ZeroWalkerbut does mbed work with the bootloader?
ZeroWalkercause i fixed that via serial from my orange pi
Vooptawr, i converted a 20 page paper shredder into a aluminum can shredder today
Voopit works nicely
tawrnice, still have all your appendages?
Voopmost
kmcZeroWalker: it may work with the bootloader
kmci don't know
kmcbut you can also avoid having a bootloader entirely
Voopall my burns are healed i havent used the forge in a while
kmcand save a little flash space
kmcif you're programming with the st-link
kmcyou can also use a SEGGER J-Link
kmcor lots of other devices
kmcthose are expen$$$ive though
ZeroWalkerah neat, well it does seem to be all better, i just use USB as i am force to until the st-link arrives;p
kmcanything that supports ARM SWD protocol should work
kmcok
porfaHi
jcjordyn120Heyo
porfai made this simple webinterface to control my GPIO and Relays, but now i have made a second system on another part of the house, with another raspberi pi and new relays on it’s own GPIO.
porfahow can i call theese “gpio” from the local server?
porfaif i mount as a share it would run the script, but localy i think
Vooptawr, do you know how i would go about powering nixie tubes
Voopi can figure out controlling them but the power situation is confusing me
OdinYggdporfa, run a script on the remote that accepts input by a convenient network protocol such as https and manipulates the GPIOs there according to the recieved commands
OdinYggdthis isn't terribly difficult
user3209_https://www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=103&cp_id=10303&cs_id=1030307&p_id=13924&seq=1&format=2
user3209_why do the cheaper cables have thicker gauge conductors?
user3209_am I taking crazy pills?
SpeedEviluser3209_: because they lie on the description?
SpeedEvilBecause they're actually aluminium?
SpeedEvilBecause the copper is radioactive?
user3209_I've been lead to be believe that monoprice is on the level
user3209_*led
SpeedEvilBecause the amount of copper in teh wires is a negligible part of the price?
SpeedEvilAlso, thicker wire means less flexy
user3209_sure I guess, but if that's the case why would they gimp their premium cables?
user3209_USB cables are driving me crazy
ozzzywhy
user3209_some cables charge at higher current than others, but I can't figure out why
user3209_it doesn't correlate with conductor gauge like I thought it would
user3209_and my confirmation bias is telling me that certain chargers like certain cables more than other chargers, even though I'm 90% sure that's not the case
user3209_even cable length doesn't seem to correlate properly
porfaOdinYggd: ca’t i combine two different html pages in one?
OdinYggdMake one page call URLs leading to the other
porfaeach server has its own html to ccontrol the gpio, so i just make one html with elements from both servers, would this be possible?
OdinYggdSo one page passes commands over to the other page
porfanice thanks
bongofurydefcon 25 had x86 breaking
bongofurytil
magic_ninja_workwhen I'm figuring impedance in a circuit, do I need to specify between the imaginary and real part?
magic_ninja_workI'm finding equivalent impedance
Hecatethe bong which belongs to someone named ury?
spludbongo is a type of drum.
spludBut yes, it could be a D&D magic item: Bong 'o Fury +2
Hecateoh I see I was putting the word breaks differently
spludNot to be confused with the cursed item, Bong 'o Furry
OwenBarfieldWhat's the best way to clean a dirty debit card or credit card?
OwenBarfieldToothpaste?
user3209say it's damaged and order a free replacement card\
spludRequest a replacement one/
spludWhich, if you have a chip, may mean a new number.
OwenBarfieldI figure I can use a toothbrush with some kind of cleaner like toothpaste or just water?
user3209they want you to spend money on your credit card, and no, it will have the same number
spludThis the front side, or magstripe, or chip contacts?
magic_ninja_worki know a guy that knows a guy
OwenBarfieldBoth sides are dirty, but it's still working
magic_ninja_workrubbing alcohol
OwenBarfieldthere's some sticky black stuff on both sides
spludI know a guy that knows a GIRL. So there, I'm on IRC and am one person removed from a girl. Woo.
user3209what's it dirty with? dirt? grease?
OwenBarfieldProbably residue from my wallet
user3209plastic wallet?
OwenBarfieldfrom the black leather or vinyl
OwenBarfieldI think it's leather
spludRemove your wallet from your swim trunks before swimming in the Gulf.
spludOr just don't swim in the Gulf.
user3209probably fake leather in some parts
OwenBarfieldit's not that dirty, but the black stuff makes the numbers hard to read
spludRead 'em to us.
OwenBarfieldI got most of it off already with a toothbrush
spludI'll check that the number is valid for ya.
OwenBarfield666
OwenBarfieldcheck that biatch
spludthe Luhn checkdigit is wrong, and not enough digits.
spludThe Ember card, don't leave hell without it.
OwenBarfield666 8008135
user3209there isn't much you can clean it with besides soap and water that won't damage it
OwenBarfieldAlcohol won't cause any damage?
user3209not sure, it won't damage the contacts for the chip, but it might damage the paint
user3209might not
user3209never tried it
OwenBarfieldok, I'll just keep using the dry toothbrush
OwenBarfieldI"ll put some isopropyl alcohol on the magnetic strip
user3209you won't get a new card number with a replacement card, it's exatly the same as when you get an extra card for an extra card holder
user3209they can program the chip with whatever number they need
gurkidear god. whenever somebody of you guys is asked to do mixed signal stuff. run. as fast as you can.
pfred1what's mixed signal stuff?
gurkidoing analog and digital simulation inside of one big simulation environment
gurkias in combining fpga simulation with simulation of analog circuitry
pfred1oh i never simulate
gurkiwell it can be handy. the devices i simulate do not exist yet. its still not exactly fun. :(
pfred1I don't do anything I can't make
gurkiwell i _can_ get that asic fabbed
OwenBarfieldthe alcohol worked
gurkibut i prefer doing my failures in software over having a non-working asic producd :P
gurkiOwenBarfield: nice!
OwenBarfieldI cleaned the entire card with isopropyl alcohol, except the part with my signature on it
OwenBarfieldthen I used a paper towel to wipe off any remaining residue and my card looks new
user3209cool
OwenBarfieldIt worked on the barcode, too
OwenBarfieldand now it's easier to read the numbers
python476who likes Eugene https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mq-PF1vo9QA&t=69s ?
electrobotpython476 just linked to Resonance Circuits: LC Inductor-Capacitor Resonating Circuits - YouTube
Mad7Scientistgurki, are you paid by the hour?
pfred1he's paid by the electron
python476mems pr0n http://www.famatechnology.com/cms/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/VibrationControl_Presentation.pdf
birkoffis it true that nearly every speaker can serve also as a microphone ?
python476birkoff: never tested personally but everybody say so
python476it's logical, current -> em wave -> acoustic wave. <= reversible
user3209not a good microphone though
user3209and the mic amp you need is more expensive than the microhphone itself generally
python476who needs resolution
user3209what you need is SNR
python476If you scream at your datacenter
python476you can convert the hard disk latency shift into sound
user3209laser mics are cool
user3209read vibrations off a distant window
python476neat indeed
python476what kind of sensor do you need
user3209from what I understand the components are very simple, but the implementation is very difficult
python476some youtuber made a laser audio link with a stupid hack
python476worked surprisingly well
python476I'd love to make a few of these and give it to neighbors to see how they'd have fun with it
user3209it's a laser and a Light sensitive diode - it's setting up the focus/targeting thed interpreting the output that's hard
python476and if you bend regulations, with a powerful laser you'd have free link on a 4miles radius (line of sighted)
python476yeah the targeting is indeed an issue
python476free DJ cuts
python476imagine having precise gps, and hovering drones with mirrors :D
bongofuryrsm
pfred1python476 I imagine a mirror on a drone would vibrate pretty badly
user3209you could probably use extra lasers for targeting
bongofurymov cr0, eax
python476or eax, eax
user3209it would have to have a crazy stabilised mount and potentially also digital noise reduction in the signal processing
python476pfred1: damn, my project dream is dead
python476user3209: or adaptive optics
pfred1well you might be able to compensate for it somehow
pfred1like they do with telescopes and atmospheric distortions
user3209well if the SNR isn't too bad you could remove it by recording the vibration and subtracting it
user3209digitally
python476Id love to find a geometric symetry that would cancel the noise
pfred1just do what Google does and use balloons
python476loom projecT ?
pfred1it is balloon!
user3209super precice vibration motors outputing 180degree phase shifted playback of the vibration from the motors
pfred1what's a drone going to stay up for 15 minutes?
user3209power it by shooting microwaves at it
user3209what could go wrong?
python476stabilize it through ultrasound knots
pfred1I have to get some ultrafood knots into my stomach over here
bongofuryim suddenly a HUGE fan of Defcon gfx
gurkiMad7Scientist: ya
gurkiMad7Scientist: why? :)
bongofurythe logo for Defcon 25 has in the text negative space: analog phone, lockpicks, ethernet jack, soldering iron, platter/optical, and a mic.
python476noice
Hecatehuffity puffity ringstone round
user3209Defcon is dope
user3209I spend two hours learning about how elevators fit into building security
bongofuryhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajccZ7LdvoQ
electrobotbongofury just linked to DEF CON 25 - Christopher Domas - Breaking the x86 Instruction Set - YouTube
bongofurythis guy's a hyper-genius
gurki(sorry kind of been excited as i got $things to run :-) )
DoYouKnow bongofury wow, that's really cool
DoYouKnowfor a long time I've been thinking about microcode and similar things
DoYouKnowthat's perfect. thanks
wasutton3is there a way to output the value of a 'signed' to the stdout using "report" in VHDL?
kmcyay lockpicks
kmcI'm wearing my lockpick earrings to a party tonifght
kmcv. elegant
kmcand functional
VanUnamedI want my jack o lantern back :(
python476i still have to lockpick my car lock
kmcrofl
kmcoh shit I actually need to start getting ready for said party
kmcttyl
Bird|otherboxkmc: haha xD