restorerI really should read a bit more backlog context before responding :)
DocScrutinizer05Moose: when you want to avoid it activating automatically when water rises again, just plug the 12V power supply for the control circuit into the controlled mains outlets
MooseOh that's a good idea, haha
MooseWhy didn't I think of that :)
DocScrutinizer05you obviously need a 2nd power source then to 'kickstart' it
MooseYeah. That's a little annoying.
DocScrutinizer05might be a 9V block battery you attach parallel to the power supply output with a pushbutton
DocScrutinizer05or a 12V rechargeable battery with a silly stupid trickle charge circuit made from a resistor and a diode
DocScrutinizer05or even just a second 12V PSU, always powered
SolderBlobdoesnt need to be a second power supply, maybe just need to break a relay's positive feedback loop
DocScrutinizer05SolderBlob: this is Normaly-Open circuitry
DocScrutinizer05when the whole thing is off, there's nothing you can break
MooseI was kind of hoping there would be something that could break open if a signal was provided and then be manually reset by a lever, but that won't meet my safety requirements I don't think. Sensor failure has to open the circuit.
drac_boyhi
DocScrutinizer05Moose: there are 7N/70g operation force micro switches, and they also come with a like 30:1 lever so a 5g weighing piece of wood would operate and break the switch when hanging down from the switch lever into free air, while same switch stays NC-idle while that peice of wood swims in water
DocScrutinizer05those micro switches reliably break their NC contact when operated. their failure mode is to not close contacts anymore
MooseThe coolant can't have any possibility of contamination in it, since it runs through a pump and lots of strange flow sensors and weird things. Also the diameter of the coolant thing is like 4 inches, so it's not wide but very tall
MooseI'd be concerned that the weight would fall in or something, or be tripped by vibration
DocScrutinizer05so your sensor could fail fatally only when the string to the wood floater breaks or when the wood gets stuck somehow
DocScrutinizer05well, when you have such special requirements then you're on your own
MooseIt's not really a special requirement
MooseI just don't want a flow obstruction, that's pretty typical.
DocScrutinizer05your concerns seem special
kosslol cheap wifi endoscope http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B01M8IDD48/fpv-20/
Resilienceah, I am me again
DocScrutinizer05I don't see flow obstruction from a floating / swimming object
Resiliencehello, one off topic, I would like to chat about hardware for a DIY NAS system, is there any channel about that? thanks
MooseI guess if it floats forever, sure.
DocScrutinizer05Resilience: maybe #hardware
MooseThat should be fine, unless the coolant tank fails catastropically which means I'm replacing it anyway.
kcawperfect for colonscopies
Resilienceare you guys talking about aquariums?
kcawFish !
ResilienceDocScrutinizer05, thanks
DocScrutinizer05or ##hardware I forgot
DocScrutinizer05Resilience: talking about some coolant tank
Bga3https://adventofcode.com/
DocScrutinizer05sor whatever I didn't get
zigggggykcaw! caw!
hackkittennyaa~
DocScrutinizer05Moose: a slightly different approach would be to use the N-O contact of the microswitch and have the swimming object push up against the lever of the switch
DocScrutinizer05obviously for both solutions you place the switch outside of the tank
MooseResilience: it's a coolant system for a radioisotope generator of sorts
Resiliencesorts?
DocScrutinizer05ugh
theBearthere ya go... https://imgur.com/a/P3lMr the notes underneath explain the reason for all this, oh and err, there's bare torso-flesh and just a hint of man-nipple and man-hairs involved, if that isn't something you wanna see right now...
MooseDocScrutinizer05: Good thing I'm rigging this janky thing up right?
DocScrutinizer05so if that's about vuclear grade security, you should ask elsewhere :-D
DocScrutinizer05nuclear*
theBearMoose, so is my bath-towel ! at least on the occasions that kitchen-smoke makes the beepey annoying thing start being all beepey and annoying ;-)
MoosetheBear: what? lol
theBearassuming you consider the vents in the lid of the smoke-alarm as cooling vents ;-)
SolderBlobif flow obstruction is to be avoided at all costs, you could also consider a capacitive fluid level sensor
Kamilionjust remember, if the PAN code 00000000 is good enough for 'murican nuclear arms, it's probably good enough for an RTG too.
MooseDocScrutinizer05: It's really not as scary as it sounds. It's a very low specific activity configuration that I have a license to work with which was approved at a residence, so it's not that big of a deal.
theBearKamilion, of course it is ! i mean, someone MIGHT eventually guess just 4 or 6 0's in a row, but it'd take a thousand monkeys locked in a situation-room for 100 years to guess THAT many of 'em :)
KamilionMore likely they'd get the source code to windows 98 before eight zeros.
theBearhehe, that'd only take weeks or months at most... tho to get as effed up as win 8 or 10 would surely take a couple decades or more... need a lotta entropy to produce that kinda mess
KamilionThe other way to think about it is answering "y" eight times to "are you sure you want to quit this application?"
restorertheBear: is that stitched up or as-is? it's hard to tell at that stage of healing
theBearhehe, or "are you sure you want to do this ? you DID moments ago click on it without thinking very hard, but hey, you ain't reading this either are yer ? ooh, now you gonna click 'yes' and cause a total logic effing mess !" <grin>
KamilionNo name plastic drill, huh...
theBearit was only err, maybe 30 hours ago, and untouched... at the time i just lifted my shirt and couldn't see that far back, thought it was only the little mark and felt like a big sissy for feeling stingey afterwards while my buddy had a mark like that one on his front :-O !
restorerhm, must be the lighting vs camera then
theBearit probly had a name, but it was definately bright blue plastic, and the nylon-ish fan at the front end of the motor/windings part definately smashed the crap outta the blue ventey slots like they weren't even there... looks like the thing's been chopped thru the middle from most angles
KamilionWell, there's two courses of thought you can go from that... if you had a no name metal drill, it probably would have held together... or a named plastic drill... I suggest inscribing "elbereth" into it.
theBearmmm, i'm colour blind and bad at photo taking generally, plus it was first try with my 'new' fone so it probly go stupid settings
DocScrutinizer05"Abort to not delete all unselected objects? YES/NO"
KamilionOh, AutoCAD, how I'll never miss your chinglish dialogs
restorertheBear: I think most of the problem is flash against dark background, and the resulting washed-out colors and poor color balance
theBeari was thinking about it, if the idle/carb is set right you probly start it with almost no throttle and then it just runs within an average drills rpm range comfortably and you can just kinda coast the drill and yank the socket fitting off the crankshaft, but cos he just got it and it was all outta sorts before we started on it, i thinking the gentle vroom i gave it to stop it stalling in the first second or so was probly several times the max revs
theBeardrill expects to see
theBearrestorer, very possibly, but i ain't gonna open a curtain or turn on a lamp at this time of the week, not for a look at my own side
Kamilionprobably well past the 1200RPM a screwgun can spool at
theBearplus it's kinda nice having a fone with both a flash and actual focus mechanism after using the little cheapy one for a while
restoreroh no, I'm just critiquing the shot, not asking for a better one ;)
theBeari dunno what kinda speed go-kart engines usually run, but i been thinking that it goes from a small on the engine to a big cog on the driven-axle via chain, and other than that only centrifugal clutch, only one gear, so it probly goes a bit fast... from memory karts around that size and shape can get up close to 100km/h and they ain't big wheels on a kart
theBearheh, just as well, cos if yer were you would be getting disappointed :)
theBearsomewhere between slightly and mildly so, i'd guess
Kamilionlil twostroke buzzers can get to 11-12k without too much trouble
Kamilionno load
DocScrutinizer05theBear: use a nut on a screw, that would simply spin off when motor faster than drill
Kamilionprobably better to get a proper pullstart
Kamilionor just go electric start :D
DocScrutinizer05yeah sure
theBearmmmm, we weren't really in a mood to finish fiddling it after we both got whomped with exploded drill parts that day, but somewhere either side of 10k doesn't sound crazy, only one little teeny piston in the thing and HUGE motorbike engines happily go way past 15k before even hitting the red-zone these days, crazy effing modern rocket-bikes they are
drac_boythebear actually 15k isn't that crazy if its a sub-1L engine of any sort :)
theBearDocScrutinizer05, hmmm.... that's actually not a bad idea, i hadn't thought of anything simple so far, tho by the time i left for home my buddy was already looking up permanent mount starter-motors (car style) with matching rated heavy-duty disengagey mechs to suit heh
drac_boytbh most 2-3L 4-inline car engines have a 10-14krpm option either from the race track team and/or as an exotic sport engine option street-wise
Kamilionmy uncles's got a 2003 dodge SRT-4 that is rediculously overpowered where the rubber meets the road.
drac_boyactually as I think about it I know for sure that the corolla trueno (aka AE96) had 11Krpm as a race type engine
Kamilionthe datsuns used to be popular to crank up too.
theBeardrac_boy, it kinda is and it isn't... these days you can get a 175cc new cheapy road bike that goes past 20krpm on maybe 2 cylinders i spose, and has so much effing power that until you got a full grownup license (here the original rules were 250cc or under 800 maybe but VERY old and low-power the first few years of license) you aren't allowed to use 'em... they leave big old 3 cylinder/3carb 600-700cc 70s and 80s bikes like they standing still in
theBeardrag race
Kamilionreminds me of Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas's enduro bike race
theBearand of course with the modern ultralight alloy everythings they made of they're effing crazy little things... weigh nothing and got power you couldn't possibly get down onto the ground without smoking a tyre or flipping over backwards
cheaterhey guys
Kamilion"hold my beer"
cheateri found a snail in my kitchen herb planter. are snails good or bad?
theBearKamilion, heh indeed... it's great when he takes his hand off the top of his beer and pours it out like mud, really sums up the whole situation nicely i think
theBearcheater, hmm, in a kitchen, i think it depends how french your cooking style is
Kamilioni used to keep small snails in the fishtank, they tended to keep the glass cleaner than I did...
restorerhow big?
theBearsmall, obviously
DocScrutinizer05cheater: depends on preparation
theBearhmm... can snails go underwater then i spose ?
DocScrutinizer05ooh, theBear beat me to it
Kamilionthe snail should be harmless to your herbs.
Kamilionalso, snail shells are used as soil addatives
theBearit'll leave semi-transparent shiny trails all over yer nice clean surfaces tho, assuming your kitchen has those... mine hasn't for quite some years now, i suspect :)
Kamiliondepends on what your definition of clean is... Some people can get a bit too clinical; others a bit too lax
theBearfried snails swimming in 98% straight butter sauce can be kinda delicious, if the person that makes 'em knows however you do that kinda thing
drac_boythebear I dunno how widespread it used to be but I know a few certain older moped's (1970-1980's kind of era) used to come from factory with the engine artificially choked just as to rest at or very slightly below the maximum power output allowed for the license of the moped itself in question
restorerwhen I got CSA boxes a couple years ago, I could pretty much count on at least one small slug or snail in the greens
restorerand by small, for those I mean maybe 1/4"-1/2" long
Kamiliondrac_boy: my little gas scooter had such a restrictor plate
cheatertheBear: lol
drac_boyone of these basically had a small metal flap welded into the fuel intake hole .. and removing it actually gave you 3-4hp more ... for a small moped thats a noticeable difference
theBearKamilion, i think only a fool would try to call it clean here, but ya know, i got my reasons, i don't think it's fantastic and it'll get sorted sooner or later, and at least i'm aware of it and can compensate accordingly <grin>
Loshkirestorer: if there are no slugs and snails they get complaints the produce isn't 'organic' enough
restorerI'd just rinse them out, and if they stuck stubbornly on, depending on how I was going to cook the greens, sometimes I wouldn't care
drac_boykamilion yeah that too
jaggzw10 doesn't have the intel raid software that lets me manage my drives .. (intel rapid storage manager or whatever it's called)... and intel's versions don't think my platform is compatible :(
DocScrutinizer05drac_boy: my scooter does that electronically now
Kamilioni prefer thinking about it in terms of sanitary levels; If it's clean enough for the five second rule to be effective, it's clean enough.
jaggzI don't know what to do.. I have a drive that's died and I really don't want to rebuild the whole thing from the boot area all at once
tawrjaggz: pm
DocScrutinizer05drac_boy: weird how the thing speeds away when you cut that one wire
DocScrutinizer05;-P
theBeardrac_boy, ahh, now you mention it, i sure something similar was going on a few years back with all those 50 and 80cc near-identical pushbike 2stroke conversion kit engines that were all over the place
restorerLoshki: this place was beyond even organic, they were "biodynamic"
drac_boyelectronically sounds like 90's or newer docscrutinizer ;)
DocScrutinizer052 years old
LoshkiI can hardly talk. I ate huitlacoche once, on purpose.
theBearbut this is very much a proper 'racing/track gokart' kinda thing, you know, big fancy logo's saying stuff like "super-karts" or similar all over the place, and not even remotely street-legal anywhere in this country
DocScrutinizer05takes speed at rear wheel with an inductive sensor, throttles at 40km/h
Kamilionhuh.
drac_boy40? hmm where you from?
DocScrutinizer05Germany
restorereh, I'd prefer more than 2% other ingredients in the sauce, just to throw flavor over the snails more
restorer(i.e. cover up the snail flavor, if they have much at that point)
drac_boyhm interesting about germany since canada rates it at 50kph for a moped, to go over you have to go to a motorcycle plate instead
restoreror maybe just keep all the wine on the side to drown it out :D
drac_boy40 vs 50 .. some of a difference :)
DocScrutinizer05yep
DocScrutinizer05otherwise same
Kamilionah, reminds me of BAHfest '13, with the chicken
Johnsensuch germany
DocScrutinizer0525 and 40km/h are legacy limits
Kamilionthank you, google, there it is. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRPKOrTRE0w
Johnsenunlimited moped speed on the autobahn :p
DocScrutinizer05no, you mustn't use Autobahn with moped
DocScrutinizer05which sometimes really sucks
tawrit's not hard to uncap anything
Kamilionnon-euros have very strange misconceptions about how the autobahn works
tawryou can remove the limiter on most bikes in like 5 minutes or less
Johnseni am belgian
drac_boydocscrutinizer mind you there are a few companies that seem to sell like "showoff badass" escooters. what happens is that they do obey the 20kph (or close, I forgot exact number) limit but pack in a low-geared 1KW motor with a big battery pack. so you can claim to a 0-25kph as fast as your neck can hold on 0_0
Johnseni drove in germany before
KamilionAmericans have no sense of lane discipline
inexAmericans have no sense of anything
Johnsenneither do most europeans
inexneither do most humans
Johnsenright lane allergy
theBearmmmm, that might be interesting tho... replace the crappy semi dynaerr, you know, not points+coil thing OOOOLD cars used, shit-ignition it got on it with a nice huge-spark electric one running off a sensor somewhere, with the inherant ability to advance/retard and even rev-map such things if yer wanted i spose, squeeze every last bit of kick outta the little thing
LoshkiHave you not noticed, Americans are *crazy*
drac_boynormal escooter with small single motor and a modest battery pack actually are still quick to take off from 0 to 25 on slight uphill .. as long as you are not a couch-lazy big fat man tho
Kamilionnot crazy, simply just not sane at all times.
drac_boyso hm yeah go figure
Johnseni always heard germans go to right lane
theBearlol badass+escooter !! an oxymoron if ever i seen one
Johnsenbut my experience is different
Johnseneven on truck free weekends
theBearLoshki, some of em, but i suspect a lot are just plain dumb <grin>
drac_boythebear I know...these few companies put oversized (with low gear ratio) motor etc .. try to make it look like a racetrack motorcycle but with a 25kph limit :P
drac_boyI never understand them anyhow
Kamilionuneducated; or more aptly; refuses to learn when taught.
theBearand if yer ever met an american, you KNOW i don't mean they are mute in the mouth-dept. when i say 'dumb' there <cheeky grin>
DocScrutinizer05drac_boy: just to make sure, mine is a 50ccm 4stroke scooter
LoshkitheBear: I used to claim Brits were smarter, and I got away with it right until Brexit...
Kamilionit's absolutely incredible how many americans practice the habit of refusing to learn when taught.
Kamilionsomething to do with the broken education system
Johnsenpfft
LoshkiThe ingrained disdain/distrust of intellectualism goes back to before my childhood...
Johnsenyou have your info from movies & youtube i guess
joe_zKamilion, broken culture
theBeara buddy recently got himself a 1000w brushless/3phase pushbike hub/wheel to upgrade his electric bike (or more accurately for me to help upgrade it, he ain't much one for diagrams or wires or antyhing useful <grin>) .... the 250w ones i seen got as much power as a not-tiny body can hold the front wheel down in front of, that thing is gonna be ridiculous if he got the batteries to back it up
drac_boydocscrutinizer but anyway one interesting footnote is that several years ago scooters didn't "exist" but any 50cc users were basically M1 licensed riders .. which was difficult because M1 has to be renewed quite often (M1 is "learner motorcycle stage 1" which is then followed by M2 before you get an 'full' M stage license)
Kamilionjoe_z: *what* culture. Everything we have is borrowed from others.
joe_zKamilion, same as all the other cultures in the world
drac_boyapparently enough people got fed up that the federals finally introduced the new scooter-only licensing which was a big help
drac_boy:)
joe_zthey don't develop independently
joe_zexcept in rare cases of extreme isolation of a body of people
DocScrutinizer05drac_boy: M1 is for "unlimited" speed I guess
joe_zit's still a culture
theBearheh, as opposed to a body of animals or a body of a car perhaps ?
theBearACTION tries not to grin
KamilionSo, fireworks at the fourth of july is just as good as any japanese obon festival, in terms of culture?
joe_zACTION slaps theBear around with the body of a large trout
DocScrutinizer05those unlimited 50ccm bikes existed since... 1960?
Johnseni'm watching female skiing+shooting :p so many cuties in skiing :p
drac_boydocscrutinizer mind you a few people still have these old style true moped bicycles .. the kind where it looks like a beefed up bicycle with a small clutched gas motor "added to the chaindrive as afterthought"
theBearwtf were those things that made sparks and timing for ancient cars called ? you know, you spin the shaft and it spits out inductively generated sparks on maybe 4 seperate leads for the plugs in a 1920s kinda era engine
Kamilionyeah -- lot of that here in silicon valley, drac_boy
DocScrutinizer05Kleinhraftrad
drac_boythese for some funny reason don't have to be licensed unless they want to be able to use the street that are used by cars :)
joe_ztheBear, a distributor
Kamilionthere's at least two shops dedicated to doing those conversions.
theBearjoe_z, nah maaaaaan, there were no electric systems, no batteries in engines back then
theBearit's a word like dynamo, but ya know, not the same :)
joe_ztheBear, magneto
theBear*BAM* ! 1000points for my buddy joe over there !
joe_zyou can keep em
DocScrutinizer05Mofa (25) Moped (40) Kleinkraftrad (50ccm unlimited). Changed a maybe 15 years ago
drac_boykamilion I always liked these things, actually looked up local ads for them twice but so far haven't really want to buy one yet tho :) .. I mean could you imagine bicycle down a bike path with zero noise then as soon as it ends at curb into a street, kick the ignition switch on and smoke away with lazy legs :)
joe_zI have enough of those internet points
KamilionACTION dips the points in hot oil and eats them
joe_zturns out the exchange rate isn't worth the conversion fee
theBearsidenote: first maybe 20 years of my life my dad was slowly slowly re-building somewhere between 1 and 3 amilcars in his spare time/weekends
drac_boyamilcars?
DocScrutinizer05drac_boy: which location are you talking about?
theBearjoe_z, i don't want 'em, i just wanna remember the term as a way to casually insult the way that modern little 2stroke things kick their tiny potted coils enough to make a spark
drac_boydocscrutinizer ah sorry, canada .. especially east :)
theBearhttp://motoburg.com/images/amilcar-02.jpg like that
DocScrutinizer05aaah forgot
theBearbut his ones got big long full length mudguard/runnning-board? kinda things and no spares on the sides
theBearreal weird to drive compared to anything remotely newer too, things like little levers to control the advance/retard and ratcheted levers like combi/old-van handbrakes for clutch etc
theBearand tiny shitty engines that are kept going by magneto's <grin>
theBearmmmm, most of this one http://lezebre.eu/car/amilcar/photo%20amilcar/Amilcar%20G%20d.jpg is closer to how his looks
Kamilionoh, whoa.
drac_boyoh vintage cars..so thats what an amilcar was .. thought that was some misspell
Kamilioni saw something like one of those under a tarpwrap not too long ago
theBearsidenote, bare unfinished just-fabricated car-length mudguards have REAL sharp edges... when i was little i slashed a 11 stitch hole in the inside of my foot as i was CAREFULLY lifting up to step over it (upside down like a U on the ground) and JUST grazed the top edge of the thing.. that was a long day of buckets full of dettol and blood and getting all plastered and stiched at the kiddy hospimable
theBeardrac_boy, yeah, think they were racing cars back in the '20s or so, but very very old
theBearthe whole deal... lift up side-covers to get at the engine, only crank-startable, the spoked wheels etc etc
Kamilion... :/
theBearwas kinda boring watching them half-built my whole childhood and teens, but kinda cool once he got one all done up nice and finished
drac_boyACTION still would love a certain low-production citroen just for some driving fun tbh :)
theBeareven GIANT wingnuts to hold the wheels on :)
KamilionI'm just about to hit 35 and all I've managed to do was bruise (possibly fracture) my wrist while skateboarding... (more specifically, skitching off the back of a 68 chevelle)
theBeari spose they hadn't invented nuts and bolts yet
drac_boywant see a photo example of the wish-maybe car kamilion :P
Kamiliondrac_boy: pardon? "wish-maybe"?
drac_boywell..I could wish for one..just not sure about actually getting one :P
drac_boyheh
Kamilionah. Sure.
theBearKamilion, a life full of regular injuries ain't for everyone... and at almost exactly the same age i got shins that are literally just a patchwork of scars with no skin inbetween from all the skateboarding and biking and kicking pc cases across the room when i haven't had a spare hand to turn on a light etc etc
drac_boyhttps://i.pinimg.com/originals/8d/71/5c/8d715ce46b8d95a279a9e6cbc663947f.jpg have fun looking kamilion :)
theBeari even got axed in the face by someone who had just minutes earlier become a bona-fide axe-murdering maniac late last year !
theBearsure, gives you something to rant about when yer in a ranty mood, but chances are it ain't worth all the pain and downtime over the years :)
KamilionGee, you make canada sound so fun and light hearted, like a cartoon.
theBearwtf ? i'm not a canada-ian !
drac_boybtw kamilion only a few hundreds of these were built and so hence 20+ years later theres not exactly many left :-s
DocScrutinizer05ooh a Ente
theBeari mean, i like 'em, and they seem to be fairly close to here socially/culture/attitude-wise in a lotta places, but i'm almost opposite side of the globe from those dudes
theBeardare i guess it, that's a french mobile ? it just has that french car odd shaped look about it
Kamilionfrom the CTCP time response, i'd say either china or russia...
DocScrutinizer05it is
DocScrutinizer052CV
theBearKamilion, and i'm not somewhere that speaks japanese, can you extrapolate my location?
DocScrutinizer05aka deux chevaux
drac_boythebear its basically a 2cv but with factory alternations for second engine with its own gearbox/axle assembly end .. officially called '2cv sahara' in some adveristment papers
theBearalso no daylight saving here anymore, we on the wrong side of the hour, it just gets silly when we go another hour sideways in summer, it dusk after 9pm and pitch black when you wakeup not-that-early for work
drac_boyheres a somewhat decent outline that shows the twin engine "4x4" setup http://www.citroenet.org.uk/passenger-cars/michelin/2cv/sahara/saharaschema.jpg
theBeardrac_boy, 2nd engine ? front/rear wheels split ?
drac_boyits really FF+RR combined to one single gearstick ;)
KamiliontheBear: I think I answered your question just before you asked it... heh
theBearheh, that's just silly enough for me to think it's kinda cool
drac_boycan limp (if thats a word) on just one engine if you have to .. but less offroad ability by then tho
theBearKamilion, erm, sorry komrade (imagine that k is backwards <grin>) but yer WAAAAAY off
drac_boythebear..well it didn't have enough power to drive a conventional 4x4 drivetrain reliably .. so next step was a clever one, double it up! :)
theBeardrac_boy, heh, i thought you were about to say enough power to drive a conventional single-vehicle with one engine <grin> those old steel bodies weren't real light ya know
drac_boythebear if you look at the second link I pasted the very tiny size of the engine gives its performance away
theBearand limp IS a word, the judges upstairs have conferred and they gonna allow it
theBearooh, wireframe xray style ! how very futuristic that must have been
drac_boythebear I know 'limp' is a word .. I just meant more of that I don't think that running with one of the two engine offline is really "limping it" but what do I know :)
KamiliontheBear: I'm in california; it's 5:20PM on friday, and your IRC client responds with 9:20AM on saturday
theBearheh, even less boot (trunk, crazy foreigners !) space than a vw or a porsche in that sucker
Kamilionthat's about as much as I dare attempt to determine, since you've got a cloak
drac_boythebear well it was meant for the africa terrain which had very little paved roads back then. most of the buyer were the police, oil refinery owner, etca who had a need for a reliable low-cost offroad ability (a landrover was an expensive high-maintenance thing for some people at the time)
drac_boyvery few new '2cv sahara' were ever sold outside africa for no surprise afaik
Kamilionwhere else would you *need* two engines?
drac_boyand btw you did have a bit of luggage space on the roof or in a bag rack over the rear trunk door
Kamilioni mean, other than like, trying to race up pike's peak the fastest.
pepeeOK, so this thing: https://wiki.hackerspace.pl/projects:zsun-wifi-card-reader#ethernet_port is really too small to solder it... for me at least
drac_boykamilion as I was saying a single engine was too underpowered for a reliable 4x4 drivetrain so citroen's other choice was to simply run double independent engines :)
theBearerm, yep, my client responds right, and if yer were really on top of yer timezones (many years of os-installing has taught me the ones either side and parallel to me) you'd be thinking tokyo or ... i think an image can say it best, where's an appropriate one for this increasingly lengthy setup i wonder... heck, have two, i can afford it ! https://i.pinimg.com/236x/fd/6c/27/fd6c278f1ef3460caf7800bfcf96f47f.jpg and https://i.pinimg.com/236x/fd/6c/2
theBearc278f1ef3460caf7800bfcf96f47f.jpg ... and a one-naughty-word caption warning (albeit mis-spelled) on the first one there
drac_boykamilion fyi I dunno which engine options the Sahara version got .. but the normal FF citroen sold all over europe started with only 9hp at first :)
Kamiliondrac_boy: https://www.supercars.net/blog/1996-suzuki-escudo-pikes-peak/
winsoff_Two dissimilar metals touch. Does anything electrical happen?
Kamilionthis is the only other 'real' dual engine vehicle and it's intended quest.
theBearthe cloak is more about the olden-times when big channels on freenode were under constant and very excessive jackass/kiddy-attack almost constantly, and also kinda made sense once i had to make a login in order to be authoritized/deputized
pepeeI want to put an ethernet cable there. anyone got an (creative) idea on how to do this the easy way?
Kamilion(that I'm aware of)
theBearwinsoff_, sure, that's a thermocouple right there, and also a peltier i pretty sure
drac_boykamilion heh...btw there was a very special citroen 2cv that ran a porsche engine .. want to know what it looks like? :)
Kamilion... Well, I'm definitely going to buy two of those, pepee; but you might want to use some magnet fly wire to bring those to a 0.100 header, and then just crimp on the female headers instead of an rj45.
theBearwinsoff_, then you got things like galvanized iron as used in various metal guttering and outdoor screw/bolt fixings, which is kinda cool... in the same way that a long-dead battery in some forgotten electronics thing will corrode all the way up one conductor, while the other end is shiny like new until ALL the first end has been corroded to nothing, galvanised iron sacrifices the (zinc?) coating until it's ALL gone away in order to protect the
theBeariron/steel underneath ! wowee !
pepeeKamilion, I bought like 6 or more :)
theBearthis is also why old landline/pots telephones run on weird (negative too from memory) voltages, so that the cables last as long as possible
Kamilionbut I'd suggest using one of the other AR9331 platforms
drac_boykamilion https://artofgears.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/346/files/2015/10/17.-Alfa.jpg and guess who is in the citroen driver seat? 007 :P (obviously the car had to be seriously up-powered as to keep up with the camera)
pepeeKamilion, fly wire is the hard, flexible one, right?
Kamilionyeah, also called wire wrap wire
Kamilionusually enamel coated
theBearpepee, these days it's soft and plastic a lot of the time, but basically fine mesh fly's can't fit thru, but wind and vision can get thru
theBearwait, what ?
theBearoh sorry, wrong flywire
Kamilion##electronics not ##fishing
Kamilionj/k
pepeehah
theBearawww, noone liked the locally-relevant images i linked, which also kinda explain why i may be more familiar with flywire than people from a lotta other places
Kamilionpepee: where can I get some?
theBearKamilion, your favourite electronics supplier/store i'd say
drac_boykamilion and thebear would either of you be happy using a scooter that had the gas tank right on top of the front tire? (in front of you yep!)
Kamilioni doubt fry's electronics carries zsun
Kamilionthey DO carry tplink
pepeegearbest.com , aliexpress.com , banggood.com
Kamilionso I wouldn't rule it out
Kamilioneh, I've got accounts with all three, but I guess I'll go look on ali first
pepeegearbest was the cheapest, last time I looked
theBeardrac_boy, pfft, i'm happy drunkenly pouring fuel into a little running generator without a funnel or even a tube while smoking to keep a little bush-rave going without a break on a sunday morning, i see no problems with what you describe :)
Kamilion$10? I was expecting less.
pepeeyeah, they aren't that cheap
pepeethere is https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/New-Orange-Pi-Zero-H2-Quad-Core-Open-source-512MB-development-board-beyond-Raspberry-Pi/1553371_32761500374.html
pepeebut the wifi sucks...
Kamilionthat's the shit one
Kamilionyou want the H5
Kamilionnot the H2
pepeewhy aren't there good alternatives for these things? I don't know
RJ45Kamilion: crimp my ass
Kamilionthere's plenty.
theBearlast time i rode a buddies little tiny motorbike ("pit bike" they call em apparently) first one i rode since my stupid spine killed my stupid foot/lower-leg, i was shifting one direction with the heel of my shoe and my toes brushing the front wheel if i wasn't going straight at the time... i kinda enjoy piloting far from practical things
winsoff_theBear, that's super interesting. Thank you.
pepeelots of cheap CPUs, apparently, yet none of them is too good
Kamilionthey don't sell the odroid pi anymore, but I have three of those.
Kamilionwell of course
pepeeKamilion, I mean, in terms of price/specs+support
theBearwinsoff_, that's aiiiight :) gotta do something useful to get away with ranting this much nonsense all the time
Kamilionit's nearly impossible to shrink a full amd64 down that far and still have acceptable performance
pepeeeh, intel compute sticks exist
drac_boythebear you might like this then https://c1.staticflickr.com/4/3625/3583554165_3fcfd88898_b.jpg fan-induced aircool engine in middle .. gravity fuel tank over front tire .. and the somewhat common optional matching cargo trailer :)
Kamilionthey've only gotten it down to about 15W so far on AMD's side, and the intel atoms that go down to 2W are next to worthless unless you only want to run excel on a TV.
Kamilionjust about the only thing they're good at is 2160p content decode
pepeetrue
Kamilionhttps://www.gearbest.com/tv-box/pp_676879.html?wid=21
theBeardrac_boy, oooh, quite nice.... like a squashed vespa <grin> and i very much like the matching tiny-trailer
Kamiliononly a few of them can do 4K acceptably
Kamilionbut most of these are just mobile CPUs
drac_boythebear.. vespa has fuel in middle so :P
Kamilionstraight out of cellphones.
KamilionYou may not even get a normal linux userspace with them
Kamilionsometimes they'll just hand you a kernel
Kamilion"WTF do I do with this?" "pick any of the arm7 userspaces, they'll all mostly work. Mostly."
theBeardrac_boy, i just mean style/visually .... same kinda lines and colours as a classic vespa, just kinda less-tall and longer, like it been squished :)
drac_boythebear heh fair enough ;)
pepeewait, weren't we talking about really small SoCs?
Kamilionwell, on the really small side, there's stull like the vocore
Kamilionbut on the REALLY small side, then you hit a performance block. Right now I'm messing around with Espressif's ESP32
Kamilionhttp://esp32.net/
tawryuck
Kamilion240Mhz, but too small to run linux.
tawrive held off the 32, it's sdk is so fucked
Kamilionhahaha
KamilionI love the SDK
drac_boypepee funny thing about that..I have one small project from early this year (I should recheck about maybe actually doing it) that relied on a russia-made soc .. specifically picked because both it natively came with a pci bus (I did NOT want to have to bother with a stupid pcie bridge chip taking up space and cost) and was less than 10W altogether
Kamilionit's so great
tawryou would
Kamilionmenuconfig.
tawr(lol i dont know you, it sounds good)
theBearon that note, anyone know if those new little $60ish dollar rpi somethings (hdmi, little header with some gpio and other stuff on it, erm, ethernet, ya know, usual modern stuff all there) got the guts to run mame reasonably ? cos a series of things just recently made me notice they could be a super small/lowpower/cheap almost-everything you need to make a little dedicated mame cabinet/system
Kamilionthe 8266's SDK was worthless
Kamilionthen the community built it up
Kamilionand there's like, 3 or 4 competing ones
Kamilionwhat do you find wrong with esp-idf?
tawrtheBear: they are 35
tawrand yes
drac_boytbh I still double theres even anyone else (beside this russia company I meant) that provides a general pci bus in-die ... but who knows, I may be wrong tho
tawrthere are entire os images built around using them as EMULATORS
tawror as HTPC's
pepeeKamilion, I mean, small and cheap :)
tawrso you dont even need to know linux
tawrthe entire os image is built around that one thing
theBearpfft, i used to build glibc and gcc on my dual-proc 40 and 50mhz sparc-32 pizzaboxes, course i did have a pair of fancy 4gb scsi one hd's all raid'd up, ya know, for that modern-grade raw speed heh
pepeedrac_boy, and how much $$?
tawrtheBear:
theBearit took just over a week if yer were wondering
KamiliontheBear: HEh, that's nothing compared to a two month long gentoo emerge world
theBeartawr, not at my local shop, in my local bucks'es, but sounds like the one, and you gave me a yes, that's kinda cool
Kamilionah, 2004 sucked.
KamilionBut not as bad as ipchains
drac_boypepee not sure don't have any cost notes (probably because it was a "well I guess my budget for first pre-production one is a few thousands" project and still is)
kmchaha
theBearKamilion, why you think i was building gcc and glibc on such an ancient machine this century ? i know how long it took for a stage1 -> usable desktop or even fairly minimal server emerge on the suckers :)
kmcI ran gentoo in 2004
kmcbecause debian amd64 support was not ready yet
kmcI had a dual socket Opteron board in high school... I thought I was such a baller
tawrtheBear: it's called "retropi" btw
KamiliontheBear: crappiest system I've built a full setup on was a 386DX2/66 with 16MB of DRAM, I think that was kernel 1.3.23 abouts...
Kamilionand it was not this century.
pepeeKamilion, >you might want to use some magnet fly wire to bring those to a 0.100 header, and then just crimp on the female headers instead of an rj45.
pepeetbh, I didn't understand much... could you help me with this?
drac_boypepee you know what I mean tho? it seem stupid to buy a soc with only pcie then spend $10+ plus a large chunk of pcb space (even plxtech wants nearly 50x50mm last I recall) to convert pcie into pci -_-
theBeari started running gentoo exclusively (well a couple jobs since i had to use windows desktop for various things that couldn't be avoided, but personally, which is where windows really gets aperson down <grin>) in '04... everything from production servers to little modem/routerey things, long obsolete dead sparc arch's, alpha machines, i just love it... don't advocate it for others, but for various things that i like personally, it's super-duper :)
pepeebtw, by help me I mean, give me some pointers on what those things mean
pepeelike, where to buy them and such
Kamilionpepee: get some header. https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Harwin/M20-9990246/
KamilionSolder the tiny wires to the bottom of the header
tawrbtw theBear pm
pepeesorry for being a noob
pepeealso, thanks
tawrTHERE IS NO EXCUSE
theBearKamilion, mmm, sounds about right for the time... i got my first proper install in the late 1.8's or so.. was shown a VERY early linux release way waaaay back in the first days, but at the time the entire kernel+basic userspace fit on 40 3.5" floppies from memory, and a full "install" was just 2 disks, a boot and root (boot/root disks, that brings back some dusty memories eh ?)
Kamilionpepee: that's also a terrible place to get header
KamiliontheBear: ... what
pepeeKamilion, ah, those things... and where do the magnet part enters?
KamiliontheBear: I don't recall kernel 1.8
drac_boyanyway I'm going off for now mind you :)
Kamilionpepee: ... magnet part?
tawrokay pepee what exactly are you trying to do?
tawrthere is a lot of confusing stuff. write exactly what you are trying to do ON ONE LINE
Cuby96hello does somebody know how to control a device using i2c with the mcp23017? i know how i can set the values using the smbus python library but i dont get it how i write to a specific GPA or GPB pin
tawrwhen you make your question span 20 lines of random text
Kamilionoh
Kamilionhttps://bulkwire.com/magnet-wire
pepeemagnet fly wire
Kamilionmagnet wire.
tawrno one is going to read pages of text to figure out what it is you want
tawrand so you won't get an answer.
tawrbecause you spread it so thin
theBearKamilion, i'm guestimating from ancient memory, tho i can go grab the little multi-distro maybe 2cd set with fancy printed card sleeve from the other room if yer really gotta know... suffice to say, it was a little bit before 2.x series
pepeealso, the guide itself mentions magnet Magjack
pepees/magnet//
tawrif you don't do it, don't get mad no one helps you
pepeebut I have no clue how to use these things
Kamilionyes, most RJ45 jacks contain integrated magnetics now.
Kamilionbut that's for decoupling.
pepeetawr, Kamilion is helping me, though
theBearand probly around 486 dx2/66 and dx4/100 (25mhz bus, 100 sounds better than 66, but jeez, it wasn't so much) era
pepeebut yeah, you are right
Kamilionand isolation of Power over Ethernet from blowing your shit up.
tawrbut even he has asked for clarification several times now
tawri'm just trying to show you the proper way to do it, so you get the most help in the least amount of time :)
pepeeKamilion, ahhh, thanks, now I know what magnet wire means, heh
tawrand avoid XY problems
pepeeI thought it meant something completely different, duh
Kamilionhttps://www.gct.co/images/products/cable-assembly/hirose_12_way_crimp_housing_assembly.jpg
theBearpepee, it called magnet wire cos it tends to be used for things like coils and transformers that are basically electromagnets
pepeeyeah
Kamilionyou can terminate the ethernet cable in an alternative connector
Kamiliondoesn't have to be RJ45
pepeeI was imagining a magnetic wire, lol!
Kamilionmost of that is all protections from power over ethernet spec
pepeeKamilion, oh, nice, I had never seen one of those things
Kamilionif you're just plugging into a home router or a PC, you don't have to dick around with all that
theBearany wire carrying a current is technically magnetic at the time, just not much until you wind it round and round and it all adds up a bit
Kamilionpepee: http://d2rormqr1qwzpz.cloudfront.net/photos/2012/03/16/55-27659-cable_anatomy_2.jpg
pepeetheBear, yeah, I actually know a tiny bit of theoretical electronics...
Kamilionthe plastic housing is more to make it easy for people to grip and to tolerate many disconnection cycles.
pepeeI really wish I had someone teach me the practical side of things :(
pepeeor introduce me at least
theBearpepee, heh, then we're about even on the theoretical side <grin>
pepeeKamilion, yeah, I get it now, thanks a lot
pepeetheBear, I mean, I have lots of disassembled stuff in bags :)
theBeargreen on the outside ? surely that's not a standards compliant wired rj45
Kamilionpepee: make sure you use some hot glue to tack the header down
theBearpepee, lol, anyone can have that, the trick is putting it back together, or at least putting bits back in some way that makes them become useful again :)
Kamilionmagnet wire is very thin so it's easy for it to just pull off of your soldering joints.
pepeealso, english is not my 1st language, so that makes things a bit more difficult
pepeetheBear, oh yeah, I mean, I can fix stuff.. either that or break it
kmcmmmmmm hot glue
pepeeI know my limits, though
Kamilionso make sure you anchor the header; which is also acting as your gender-changer and connector.
kmcpart of this balanced breakfast
Kamilionhot snot, double sided sticky tape, hell, even veclro if you're adventureous
SolderBlobmagnet wire is also more annoying to solder, need a higher temp to get that coating off
Kamilionblutac, sugaru
Kamiliontip: scrape the tip off with an xacto hobby knife first
SolderBlobI prefer kynar, or just pvc wire wrap wire
Kamilionyou just have to score it a little bit
Kamilionand then the enamel will flake away as the solder wicks in under it
theBearpepee, heh, when i first got a job 'apprenticing' as a repair-guy i had about the same kinda ratio fixed or not, you'll get better if yer don't lose interest
pepeetheBear, sadly, I'm a bit old already, and don't have much time anymore ;_;
Kamilionalso, try to treat everything electronic related as legos
Kamilionthey ARE all interchangable with a big enough hammer and a soldering gun. ;)
Kamilion(not literally, figuratively)
Kamilionthere's many times where you can sub in a cheap cheat for hobby work
Kamilionalso
Kamilionyou should only need four wires
Kamilionthat device is limited to 100mbit so it doesn't use all eight.
theBearpepee, don't worry, maybe you'll get cripple-retired like i been the last few years... then you got all the time in the world, between ya know, being a bit crippled up sometimes <sideways grin>
theBearACTION mentions that it's best to always keep smiling, cos if yer ever stop, there's always a chance you might start crying
KamilionI used to do this a lot with my ARM mBed LPC1768 board
Kamilionjust cut an ethernet cable in half and crimp on the little plastic pins that mate with normal header
Kamilionah, you probably want a really horrifying picture.
pepeeyeah, I've messed up with ethernet cables before
Kamilionhttps://photos.app.goo.gl/Q0JrohRSjgb1WIy73
pepeesome years ago I was so poor, I couldn't afford a cable... so I had to cut a shitty cable to extend it
pepeethe router didn't support GbE, so the other pairs were useless anyway :)
pepeetheBear, well, I actually want to do this stuff because I have some projects... that may or may not become commercial
theBearACTION has MANY times used one cat5 cable for the work of two, with a little split section either end going to dual rj crimps (naturally following twisting/length rules on either side) and in rare cases even used single connectors one or both ends and split them in some kinda 1-2 box or patchey cable
kmcyes
kmcI lived briefly in an oldish university dorm that did this to have two ethernet ports in each room with one wall jack
Kamilionyep, great for IP-phone+computer off one jack
kmcwe used external splitter devices
kmca commercial product not some jank
kmcdoesn't work with gigabit tho
pepeealso, long distance (~10m) power + ethernet :)
pepeepoor people's PoE
pepeeugly, but it works, heh
Kamilionpair injection
Kamilionyep.
Kamilionand oh-so-common with chinese IoT security cameras
Kamilion... wow. 5MP photos look terrible on a 4K samsung panel.
theBearand had surprisingly good results using even half a 100mbit cable for both dc power and pal composite video to a security camera while the other half did ethernet, with crappy little joiner double-socket boxes (for phone use i spose, whatever they made for, they sure don't bother twisting pairs or anything fancy like that inside) at weird intervals... tho for the video at least a half-assed attempt at some kinda balun thing one or both ends is kind
theBearessential, specially when you got a huge power gnd vs video gnd difference due to the teeny conductors and long cable doing the power supply and video side-by-side (naturally i run an unfused 12v off the pc supply up there for the camera, ya know, cos i can <grin>)
Kamilionin hindsight I probably should have taken those without flash
Kamilionbut eh, it was 2011, anyone got a time machine I can change the past with yet?
theBearoh and i talking more like 40-50meters end to end, pfft sif 10meters, sif you'd use a higher voltage on the cable like poe does, what am i, some kinda princess with delicate sensibilities ? i think not
Kamilion56 volts! AH AH AH! </tim_the_toolman_grunts>
Kamilionoh, I think I still have the video where I was diagnosing the 12V bus issue, sec
KamilionI'm pretty sure I zoom in on the ethernet ugliness in that
Kamilionhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZtHOYWqNYXE
KamilionACTION fastforwards through it looking for the wiring part
Kamilionwow, this video is a lot crappier than I remember.
Kamilionnevermind, wasn't that video...
pepeelol
Kamilionsorry, I've been goofing off with microcontrollers for so many years now it kind of all blurs together a little
Kamilionand that was a rather old project
KamilionStill powered by openwrt though, thanks to the buffalo router
theBearheh, i didn't even know you could route buffalo's, letalone that is was "a thing" enough that it created a market for such a device <grin>
Kamilionthat whole monstrosity was eventually replaced with a raspberry pi and a pair of decent USB to serial adapters. GPS went right into the GPIO header.
restorerdammit, I soldered this board in backwards ... after gluing it on backwards :-\
Kamilioni think buffalo's mostly shipping DD-WRT these days
theBearACTION now imagines a large cloven hooved animal being carted off to the scrap yard and a little criss-cross lid pi being flopped down where it had previously been
restorerAND that was the last of my superglue, and my hot glue gun won't get here until Sunday
Kamilionbut I go for the cheaper tplink hardware now. Anything atheros, really.
theBearoh, and of course a couple ??2232??? cables, i mean, it IS replacing a whole effing buffamalo
Kamilioni will support ath9k until it dies from it
Kamilionnope, not 2232s
Kamilionlong before 2232s
Kamilionheck, that was before CH340s
Kamilionpossibly even PL2102s
theBearhmmm, way waaaaaaay back you say
Kamilionthe raspberry pi came out a few years later.
restorerspeaking of routers (or really, smart wireless router-like devices), I need one that can bridge one existing 5GHz network to a new 5GHz network it's created
KamilionI'm pretty sure they were keyspan USB to RS-232 adapters.
KamilionUSB 1.1
restorereven my Orange Pi Zeros are useless for anything involving data here because the 2.4 GHz band is SO. CROWDED.
Kamilionbut they had full handshake lines.
theBearACTION will get himself a usb-serial chip or something cable one of these days... possibly even before he starts making up little igor-style ones with non-usb-capable avr's, cos they not only something he already got, and not only cos igor totally turned the world of cheap micro stuff upside down with his groundbreaking awesomeness all those years ago, but because a whole effing micro and a handful of bits and a scrap of vero or something to hold
theBearACTION all together, costs less than a basic ft2232 or similar bare chip ! what a crazy and amazing time we live in
Kamilioneh, don't bother
restorerand I might as well have gotten something without wireless if I was going to put a 5GHz-capable USB wireless adapter in there anyway
Kamiliondo what I did, pick up a box of black pills
theBear'sif i wouldn't.... i gotta use up all my old 90s series chips one of these days, and without such silliness to help me out, i'm only using them less and less often as the years go on :)
Kamilion$2 each, and they're some of the cheapest multiprotocol UARTs you can get, plus they're flashable with more intersting shite too
theBeardisco-biscuits are all well and good for a bit of a dance late at night, but i don't see how they help me with serial and usb issues :)
Kamilioni got a box of fourty about two months ago
theBearmeh, where's the fun in using something as it was intended to be used ? that's what i did before i was forced to retire.... now i break all the rules with everything i learned following them all those years :)
Kamilionsame
Kamilionthese are full on microcontrollers; the single sided bluepills.
inexmy parents told me many years ago that i shouldnt quickly turn a light on and off, does anything actually happen to it
Kamilioni like 'em cause they lack the arduino serial reset magic; so I can just plunk anything on the other side
birkoffhow much time do I need to wait before an unplugged microwave's retained charge gets discharged?
theBearheh, so were 90s2313's back when i bought this tube of dip's so very long ago :)
Kamilioninex: depends on the type of light, and yes, an incandesant bulb can snap if toggled.
theBearbirkoff, potentially many months, and even then there's no guarantees... they apparently killed more repair-techs than any other anything across the board and for all time
inexnice, mystery solved, ty
Kamilionbirkoff: Unknowable; depends on the mfg, the capacity of the caps, and the self discharge current, hopefully they left a resistor in there to drain them quickly.
inexs/y/i/
theBearand those are qualified/do-that-kinda-thing-everyday techs, not hobbiests
Kamilionbirkoff: if you suspect they're charged, you can discharge them yourself with an insulated handled screwdriver.
Kamilionor any old AC relay you don't mind blowin' up.
theBearheh, need to be a pretty insulatey kinda resistor at those kinda voltages methinks... probly just a little humidity and a inch or so of air does the job o.k until they get down to a remotely sensible voltage, i imagine, but that's not really helpful in these cases
Kamilionnah, they just need to increase the leakage current so it slowly discharges over an hour instead of months
birkofftheBear never heard anyone died from it.
Kamiliona little 1W resistor would be more than enough if properly rated for the voltage.
Kamilioni'd figure they'd use one of the 600v rated ones, maybe even a 1kv
birkoffKamilion how is it done with the insulated screwdriver?
theBearbe ready for the CRACK sound if yer do get em with a metal-something tho... yer never get used to that sound i found over the years... big tv crt's were always the worst i found.... that whole poking around like a blind-dude under that big floppy rubber suction-cup thingey till you found the right spot and it surprised yer 6" into the air with the noise (that naturally you were expecting at any moment)
Kamilionbirkoff: with a loud spark and bang
birkoffjust touch it ?
Kamilionmake sure it's an insulated handle screwdriver though
Kamilionyep
birkoffwhat do i need to touch?
Kamilionpreferablly the biggest frakin' screwdriver you can find
Kamilionthe positive and the negative of the capacitor pins
birkoffwhere is it normally located at?
Kamilionthe bigger the screwdriver is, the more it will absorb the heat generated
theBearbirkoff, back before the wide world of webs, when magazines were the way to satisfy electronics cravings, a well respected magazine was quite adamant about it, amongst a bunch of other related something article or other... back then wasn't like these days, you didn't tend to 'get away with' just making up crap and telling it to lots of people
KamilionDunno, again, depends from mfg to mfg
birkoffmfg?
Kamilionmanufacturer
theBearheh specially as the damned things crept up to $10 and more per issue
Kamilionthough, one thing I do know
Kamilionalmost every microwave I've seen besides the inverter models use a fat ass transformer inside
birkofftheBear yeah I agree but why do you say it ?
Kamilionyou can discharge the capacitors by touching a lamp's wallplug to the microwave's
birkoffyou mean Manufacturing :)
DuckleMan I just want all my parts here naow
birkoffthat would ruin the wallplug?
birkoffor the lamp?
Kamilionunlikely
Kamilionthe lamp filament should just glow dimly for a moment and slowly go dark.
theBearKamilion, traditionally, at least if yer working on something you don't wanna risk hurting/killing the cap in the process, you''d always have a series resistor somewhere between the screwdriver/pokin'-stick and however you clipped it to gnd/chassis before you went a-pokin with it, just so you didn't ya know, try to pull "infinite" current in that first moment (which can tend to just tiny-explode smaller solid caps, and can poke little holes thru th
theBeardialectric inside big expensive electros like yer constantly needing to get down when working on valve gear
Kamilionor nothing at all will happen if it's already discharged.
DuckleWouldn't there only be mains voltage on the plugs?
theBearkinda the same as how static-straps always got a meg or so in series with em
Kamilionno, just touch the two bare AC leads together
Duckleyea
Kamilionor plug them both into a power strip that's not plugged in
Kamilionthere's not gonna be enough charge left in those capacitors to backfeed that huge transformer for very long, and it's doubtful it'd even get past 40-50 volts
Kamilionif you want to use some throwaways, automobile bulbs will work
Kamilion12V rated; 40W
Kamilionmight burn the filament out in one.
Kamilionbut figuring out how to safely touch the contacts together is kind of a crapshoot there.
Kamilioneasier just to use a 60W/100W lightbulb
theBearin CE land, and also in this countries standards-code, any caps on mains pins (basically anything that you could get a tickle from touching the pins when you unplug the thing) MUST be well below 100 or maybe even 50v (ya know, below tickle-voltage) within something like 1/4 of a second after unplugging from the mains, to be legally sold here
Kamilionyep, modern murican devices are the same, but there's plenty of stuff that is direct drive from an outlet like fans and such
Kamilionthey would either have to brake the motor to reduce the back-EMF that quickly, or just exclude it from the standard.
intranick 🖕
Kamilionfridge motors, although those tend to have a bit more smarts than a thermocouple and a relay these days
Kamilionhonestly, I wish I knew some of the maths behind this stuff; most of it's all just intuited knowledge over many years of experimentation
theBearKamilion, usually in practice (at least the kidna stuff i traditionally get paid to work on all day every day) it's more those little anti-noise snubbey x2/y2 mains rated kinda caps across the back of iec sockets or maybe mains-side big power-switches that yer find tickle yer or generally break the rule they spsoed to be following... course 99% of that stuff doesn't have big heavy motors with anything like momentum
Kamilionanything big here tends to use variable frequency drive units anyway
Kamilionand those will bring the motor to a standstill before disengaging
theBearKamilion, a guy that taught me a lotta the finer points of repairs at a commercial kinda speed/level, liked reminding people that power is power... things like if yer touch the mains, aside from leakage/safety-switches, and maybe a couple fuses here and there, you're basically touching a MASSIVE many-many-tons turbine at the power station, and that's gonna effing hurt ! sure that one is kinda an exaggeration, but it a good one to get people thinki
theBearalong the right lines
Kamilionain't just gonna hurt, you're gonna find several things: 1: you won't be able to let go, 2: FUCK IT HURTS, 3: you better HOPE it's a big beefy supply and pops to send you flying away.
theBearand same applies to things like motors with momentum... if it took say, 1000w to get it spun up and coasting at that speed, then the moment you stop powering it, it's got that much (kinetic now) energy inside it that can potentially get turned back into electricity if it the right kinda motor and something is there to load/absorb/pull that energy back out
KamilionFriend of mine worked at spectraphysics and took the latter off a laser supply
Kamilionhe left his outline in the roll up door, cartoon-style.
Kamilionthrew him maybe 26-30 feet across a low warehouse, back to the roll-up.
theBearheh, i been working on live 240v many hundred v dc rail valve amps and 3phase 240/415vac 3200w dimmers and crap for many years, i know how it gonna feel when yer do it, but like i say, it's a good way to make idiots kinda understand why they should be a bit careful with electricity
rpifanwhats the use of having wattage, if u dont have amperage or voltage its useles
Kamilionyep.
theBearooh, old gas laser supply would have a good kick, those things were way into the 5 figure voltages
theBearrpifan, v = r * i and w = v * i... without both voltage and amperage (current) you literally cannot have wattage (power)
theBearit's the ohms law, and it's a hard and fast law, it ALWAYS applies to anything remotely electrical
Kamilionrpifan: in the absence of voltage figures; it generally is referring to kilowatt hours, I've found.
theBearALWAYS
intranicktheBear: 🖕
intranick:D
Kamilionbut that's only for specific sets of gear I work with, usually uninterruptable power supplies.
theBearas the years of electronics-ing go on, and you learn more and finer points of theory, you really start to see just how absolute and universal those 2 simple formulas are, they ALWAYS apply
Kamilionyeah, as they're what is governing the vacating of electron holes in the material itself
theBearintranick, sup g-man ? see my link ? https://imgur.com/a/P3lMr (again a warning to others, there IS some human skin AND an oblique nipple in this link)
Kamilionit's the holes moving along the material that lets you get a good solid imbalance going to conduct
ace4016(technically that's not Ohm's law, but close enough :P)
rpifancause a lot of stuff is given in watts and im like well if i dont know what voltage or amperage u have then i cant really use it in my head
rpifanthen again apparently biking power is given in watts
rpifanbut whats the really mean
rpifanits not like ur legs have voltage
Kamilionoh, there's a standard voltage range for those
Kamilionusually 24V, 36V or 48V
rpifanis there?
rpifanhow many volts do my legs have then
Kamilionconnect a voltmeter to a pedalbike with no load, and start pumping those legs
Kamilionthen clamp an ammeter around that
theBearpfft holes and electrons ! i always said, and maintain, that electronics is much easier and less confusing to deal with, even designing complex stuff, if you pretend none of that nonsense exists, and stick to yer simple ohms law and similar/related math that makes sense on a schematic/circuit kinda level, which is almost always what yer dealing with, outside of maybe the odd electron-tunelling microscope project, and i dunno, maybe designing fancy
theBearsemiconductors at a pre-fab kinda level
Kamilionthere's your leg wattage
rpifanis that really a thing
ace4016Watts is a unit of power
Kamilionwell, the voltmeter will tell you one of the two variables, and the ammeter will tell you the other.
ace4016which can be electrical, mechanical, etc. in nature
Kamilionbut since there's no load, the voltage will spike and the amperage should stay very low.
ace4016if it's electrical, there will be a voltage and current involved. if it's mechanical, you can think in terms of horsepower if it makes you more comfortable
rpifaninteresting so how does it calculate wattage is it always wit hte use of the amperage and voltage soem how
Kamilioneither way, the same formula will get you the current instant power of your legs.
Kamilionyes.
theBearrpifan, and electrical energy/power can be measured in joules too, like fat people measure what they eat, and i always kinda been suspicious about such things, but apparently the fanciest of scientists in their underground bunkers and such, are pretty convinced they proven the conversions one way and another (like electrons + holes, i find life much nicer if i just ignore such things)
Kamilionvolts times amps equals watts
rpifanyea i know that
rpifanbut it just seems weird for legs
Kamilionhttp://www.electronics-tutorials.ws/dccircuits/dcp_2.html
Kamilionwell, normally that should be recorded in newtons or joules
theBearwatts are a measure or instantaneous power, not just electrical power
kiki_lambokay, roommate accidentally bought a 220v outlet timer... power supply is just a small unlabeled transformer, bridge rectifier IC and a smoothing cap. What's gonna go wrong when we plug it into 110V?
Kamilionbut that can still be converted into watts, calories, or other power ratings.
theBearkiki_lamb, the voltage at the out side is gonna be roughly half what it should be
rpifanbtw the whole calorie thing is a debate im having on the fatter ppl chan
kiki_lambCircuitry behind the rectifier responds well to 24V, seems to be functioning properly when we hook it up to a Mean Well clone type 24V supply.
ace4016watts is power; calories is energy, which is not power :P
rpifanhmm
kiki_lambtheBear: due to the transformer chosen, or the cap?
rpifanhow do u measure horses then
kiki_lambAC stuff is def not my specialty
Kamilionforce
theBearkiki_lamb, which is likely low enough the little chip in the thing won't have enough volts to work... if yer look closer tho you can usually rewire the bridge or add a couple diodes and a cap maybe (cockroft-walton style, lookitup <grin> i said cockroft hehe) to roughyl double yer output
Kamilionnot energy or power
theBearac -> dc is kinda cool like that
Kamilionoutput force, I think.
ace4016watts can also be used for mechanical power
Kamilionhorsepower to watts conversion ratio plz
Kamilion</sarcasm>
ace4016lol
kiki_lambi recall looking at those once, lemme review
Kamilionuggh, i succcccccck at maths.
KamilionI remember one time I had to get a temperature sensor working on a CAN bus
Kamilioni had to ask three people for help to figure out how to get the maths right to convert it's output into something reasonable
theBearkiki_lamb, transformer ratio decides what in->out (ac volts) will be, regardless of the voltage(s) it is fed, then the diodes take a tiny .6-ish volt overhead off of that, you multply it by about 1.414 and the cap fills in the gaps (1.414 is the peak of a sinewave which is always notated in rms (avg per cycle, if you flipped the up and down halves all to ups) with electricity)
Kamilionthird guy just went and wrote the code for me in C; and I still don't understand it. :3
rpifanid like to ask a really broad question
ace4016mechanical power is usually force * velocity (instantaneous)
Kamilionwriting procedural code; I can do
theBearcap voltage ratings are literally the voltage at which the cap can't guarantee it won't break/stop working right, outside of that they are meaningless, only the value (pF/nF/uF etc) the cap is rated for capacitance matters within that voltage, regardless of situation
Kamiliondealing with math and conversion code;... *sob*
Kamilionyeah, that's a good point
Kamilionyou'll typically find 16v rated capacitors in stuff that should only be like 5-9, maybe 12 volts
Kamilionbut those capacitors will only be charged to the voltage the circuit can supply
KamilionI've got some nice 75VDC 1500uf
theBearKamilion, indeed, i just sidenoting that fact re: voltage ratings and caps
KamilionAeroM branded, made in mexico. I wouldn't really want to go past 48V with these
KamilionI mean, that's why I have them, they're smoothing capacitors for my scooter
kiki_lambtheBear: okay, so sounds like your solution idea is the right way, given that i've got plenty of spare caps but not many random transformers to swwap
ace4016going over can result in smelliness and possible blown goo
kiki_lambreviewing the CW multiplier thing to see how that would work
Kamilioniirc, the major difference that the 110/220v switch on computer supplies change is if the transformer is center tapped
theBearkiki_lamb, the umm, you shouldn't need to change the caps end of things, cos you are only gonna be charging them up to the same voltage they woulda been with a 220/240v input to the transformer...
BohemianHacksNow that most of my new stuff has come in im starting to look at these boards i got from the recycling center.
BohemianHackso/ theBear
KamilionAhh.. Wow. Been a while since I've actually been in a room full of other leccys
theBearcomputer psus don't have any mains transformer, that switch just shorts the middle of the resovoir caps with the middle of the bridge or something really basic like that to double/half what a given mains input voltage pumps into the caps
KamilionNot modern ATX switching power supplies, no.
KamilionOlder AT and XT styles, yes.
BohemianHacks2 of these boards are some kind of SMPS
Kamilionthe modern ATX switching supplies generally don't even have nor need the voltage selector switch
BohemianHacksthe most useful IC i think for rebuilding a boost/buck converter is a TL494
Bird|otherboxaye, the active PFC boost stage takes care of it all
Kamilionspeaking of power supplies
Kamilionin the middle of trying to replace my Atari ST's old transformer based supply with a modern switch mode +5V rail
Kamilionam I right in assuming it's probable I'll be knocking a lot of the noise out of the system at the same time?
kiki_lambtheBear: CW multiplier needs at least 2 caps though, right? This has one big filter cap, so I figured I'd need to add a second
theBearerm, nah maaan, not AT supplies (which is what even the earliest ibm pc-xt and all the clones ran off of) ... in those days all that ancient discrete 74/4000 series logic sucked so much damned power just to tick over, and as the years passed things like drives and comparitively HUGE cpu's, and eventually graphics cards and similar sucked up everything that the more modern low power/heat logic and integrated chipsets etc etc no longer needed
BohemianHacksthe existing board is just using an op amp, a mosfet, and a bunch of passives. so it shouldnt be TOO crazy to build a new SMPS from this board and some new parts.
KamilionThe mainboard wants +5V at 1.4A
KamilionSo I should be able to power this thirty year old computer off a modern cellphone charger...
Kamilionsupposedly it only wants -12V @ 30ma for the RS232 chip to do full voltage swing
theBearsure, we gone up a couple hundred watts for yer average desktop machine, give or take over the 20 or 30 years since back then, but even a 100w linear (non switchey) psu weighs a TON and barely fits in an old AT standard sized psu box, and even 8086/xt machines sucked more than that surely... it been a long time, but i remember the heat and the number of little hot dip logic suckers in there... original 74 series, and even the next couple generation
theBearused massive amounts of power with their nasty crowbar the rails for an isntant every transition outputs and crappy low gain internals etc etc
Kamilionbut I was thinking on desoldering the shifter chip and clipping right into the TTL level pins to go direct to something like an ESP8266 with the SLiP firmware
Kamilioni seriously doubt I'll ever use it as an RS232 host; it tops out at 57600 baud
theBearkiki_lamb, it does, but without drawing or thinking harder than i feel like today, i pretty sure there's at least a couple different ways to wire a bridge, certainly 2 or 4 discrete diodes, to a transformer, couple more if it got a centertap in there, and a single cap/set of + and - rails to get "half" or "double" volts out
Kamilionalso, anyone know a freenode channel where Atari ST and amiga owners still hang around?
Evidlo[m]how does leakage in supercaps compare to chemical cells with equivalent energy storage?
Evidlo[m]energy leakage I mean
Kamilioncapacitors tend to work on static discharge instead of a chemical change, don't they?
ace4016yea
theBearatari das tut weh ? maaaaan, yer a bit latearen't yer ? maybe somewhere with some die-hard cakewalk midi composers ?
Kamilionleakage... I'm not sure.
KamiliontheBear: Something along those lines, yes.
Evidlo[m]supercaps are somewhere in between. they work differently from regular caps
KamilionThat and it's the computer I grew up with
Kamilionbut yes, quite right, the one with the midi ports.
KamilionIn actuality, I'm trying to get my unit working again so I can take it to my uncles in two months and see if I can get a midimaze tourney set up
theBearmmm.. i "recently" got a nice matching 540st from memory, with the original branded monitor and all which was nice, but then i moved across the country on a budget and from a warehouse-upper-floor "apartment" to sharing a small 2 b/r one here, so it was passed on to some people i knew would make good use of it
Kamilionmost people think doom was the first multiplayer first person shooter; midimaze had 16 player deathmatches in 1987 :)
Kamilionyeah, this is an STM
Kamilionit took me a while to find; because most of what you'll find are the later STFMs
Kamilionwith the floppy
Kamilionand the internal power supply, and a larger case
tawryou're a floppy
KamilionI am, yes.
theBearyour face is floppy !
KamilionBeing made of meat tends to have that tradeoff.
tawrACTION flops his floppyface at the floppybear
Kamilion*jiggle*
KamilionInsert the required 8 inch shugart joke here
KamilionThe ST came around right when the sony 3.5" floppy started getting popular
KamilionI don't recall it ever having a 5.25" drive
theBearooh, that's a disk and a word i ain't thought about fer a fewq years
Kamilionbut I could be wrong.
Kamilionyep, the 8-inchers are what CP/M used to be commonly found on
KamilionA>
theBearACTION still has at least one functioning 5 1/4" drive in the cupboard, and for the first time ever, recently got a new in shrinkwrap 3 1/2" usb floppy drive ! only a couple decades after it was last useful !
tawrdon't be silly
tawrit's still useful! hook it up to an arduino and make music!
kiki_lambtheBear: okay, i'm sure i'll figute it out. thanks!
theBearpfft, i've got proper pcfloppy-interface 3.5's in piles i can use for things liek that... probly not even possible to get a reasonable range of clicks and whirr's with a usb-bridged one like this :)
KamiliontheBear: it's STILL useful, if it's the one win95/98/2000/xp support for the "f6" driver disk
KamilionACTION proudly holds his up
Kamilioni even have a five pack of once-blank media that holds a couple raid controller driver sets now
Kamilionor at least, so they pretend to be
KamilioniSCSI drivers :D
theBearKamilion, well maybe, if yer can find a floppy these days that'll hold data for even a single write/read cycle.... seems they forgot how to bond magnet-stuff to spinny round stuff sometime in the last 15 years or so, at least in all the new disks i bought or been exposed to
Kamilionhavn't found any new floppies
Kamilioneverything I have is from before sony stopped making them
Kamilionnew old stock
Kamilionbut i'm trying to get one of those gotek usb floppys
Kamilionthe reverse of the thing you've got
KamilionUSB host port to 34 pin floppy
Kamilioni have a set of relatively rare disks I got off ebay last year that I want to dump.
theBeardon't wait too long, or like all the old reel2reel tape sitting around out there, eventually the bonding between the stuff and the base it's on starts to break down, and it's a lot harder to bake a floppy in the over to rebond it than it is to do with a tape wound on a reel (which can be easily switched to a metal reel if it ain't already one) , and that's IF you can workout the right temp for that particular material
KamilionSundog: Frozen Legacy, and it's user-created Library disk.
KamilionThe copy out on the internet is a pirate version from Automation; and unfortunately, the 'make library disk' button is broked.
Kamilionso for the last 20 years, I've had to rely on emulator savestates instead of actually being able to load and save my different characters normally.
Kamilion(bawwww, first world problems)
Kamilionnow i have an original pair of disks, and I've even set the write protect notches, so no magnetic fields or speakers will be able to damage them
Kamilionthey are now immune to writing. IMMUNE I SAY. until I read them. IMMUNE!
Kamilionalso, I don't have any speakers to put them near, so there's that.
Kamilion(that's a joke by the way, I know the write protect won't actually do that.)
Kamilioni just got the ST the day before thanksgiving; no accessories, cables, or anything.
jaggztwhat's this about gallium and indium? http://solar-center.stanford.edu/SID/activities/images/solar_spectrum_composite.jpg
Kamilionand the guy in the uk that builds the specialty cables for this thing's wacko DIN ports is in poor health and only opening his ebay store once a month, apparently.
Kamilionjaggzt: LEDs?
jaggztit's about the sun's visible spectrum
Kamilionhuh, I could have sworn we make LEDs with some of those materials.
Kamilionsounded to me more like what mix of the two to use to reach some paticular band gap of color in the sun's spectrum
Kamilionbut without any other context, that's my best guess
jaggzthttp://solar-center.stanford.edu/SID/activities/GreenSun.html
jaggztfrom that page
tawrACTION pokes jaggzt
jaggztew
Kamilionwhat color do I think the sun is...
KamilionWell, I think the sun is sol colored.
jaggztorange comes from narenj, which meant fragrance, not the color orange.
jaggztoranges were usually green
theBearwhat wacko din's ? not the old 2 pin ? cos they even seemed excessively silly to me when i first saw them as a kid wiring up old speakers and stuff i would buy cheap at swap-meets and boot-sales cos it was the only thing i could afford on pocket/earned money then, silly lookin things, not only a tiny pin and a big flat blade, but both RIGHT next to each other in the middle of such a relatively huge body
Kamilionhttps://www.exxoshost.co.uk/atari/last/oldprojects/144front.jpg
Kamilion14 pin DIN.
Hooloovo0maybe ask in ##atari?
theBearoooh, that is impressively silly, even by old fullsize din-plug standards :)
KamilionHooloovo0: yay! Thanks
KamilionI thought I had checked #atari but it didn't occur to check ##
_abc__Every topic has a channel or more on freenode. Even if you create it while joining it.
Kamilion[19:36:40] NickServ [NickServ@services.]: Registered : Mar 27 21:10:57 2004 (13y 36w 0d ago) <--- Yeah. I'm well aware. Thank you for your attempt at informing me though.
Kamilionjust inversely intuitive that ##Atari exists and #atari doesn't, but I suppose a topic isn't an official project, so should avoid using the namespace. In hindsight, it makes sense, but I just didn't click because I'm only in four doublehash channels out of over a hundres.
Hooloovo0well, ##atari isn't the offical channel of atari
Hooloovo0I'm in a good number of doublehash ones, but I hardly ever look at them
Kamilionthat company has ceased to exist anyhow;
Hooloovo0true
Kamilionanother section of it that was broken off now belongs to infogrames and is used as a stamplogo for publishing some modern games; but the company that produced the product I have no longer exists.
KamilionEh, $62 off ebay and having to kitbash the rest myself is kind of part of the adventure.
KamilionI only vaguely remember 68000 assembly at this point, it's been 20, 22 years since I've last even thought about it
Kamilionoutside of booting up some of the games in someone else's emulator once in a while in between.
Hooloovo0what 68k thing did you have?
Hooloovo0I've messed around with my TI-92+
Hooloovo0oh, the atari, duh
Kamilionyep.
KamilionI had a 1040STF with a JRI 4MByte expander that my father and I soldered in
Kamilionthis unit's older than my original
Kamilionand it's untouched, a revision H board.
Kamilionhttps://photos.app.goo.gl/7i8zs5dJY27asrlp1
BohemianHacksKamilion: I have a random 68000 motherboard i got in the same batch from the recycling center
BohemianHacksi got two old school socketed PC boards with various logic and ram chips, 2 SMPS boards, and 4 laptop batteries
BohemianHacks$10
BohemianHacksmy new favorite place
Kamilionnice.
Kamilionthe big ass dip 68k, or the little PLCC square one?
BohemianHacksMy favorite part is on both boards ~90% of the chips are socketed, including the 68k
BohemianHacksall DIP
BohemianHacksso i should be able to build a bread board computer if i ever get around to it
BohemianHacksright now im playing with the SMPS boards though
Kamilionsec
KamilionBohemianHacks: https://hackaday.io/project/5-mc68000-computer
Kamilionsame pinout will work for the dip
Kamilionhttps://hackaday.io/project/5/gallery#1a36c93436298e288753e185aabb8d86
KamilionLED counter from the address lines ;)
Kamilionalways thought that was a cute trick.
BohemianHacksKamilion: seems like a good minimal test circuit too
BohemianHacksnot even sure if this thing works
KamilionCMOS parts are pretty robust if the power supply didn't go dead short
Kamilionso if it doesn't have a smoke musk about it, it's probably fine
password4oh , I'm not running today either it seems
kcawCAW !!
password4:O
Kamilionah, there it is. BohemianHacks: https://hackaday.io/project/5-mc68000-computer/log/1052-blinkenlights
Bird|otherboxo/ kcaw
kcaw\o Bird|otherbox
Bird|otherboxhow're things going?
kcawHappy FryDay Night
password4\o/ everyone
Bird|otherboxkcaw: finally ordered the parts for the test leads for my power supply (since stock test lead sets for power supplies do very little of what I want and lots of things I have no use for)
kcawI found most of my test leads packed away in a box but I didn;t find my favorite Fluke 87 in there :(
tawrkcaw: :(
password4ACTION dips some cheese in his coffee
intranickthats weird
ozzzy_I like to dip my zweibach in my bosco
kcawIt is history now, I still have my Simpson 260 and my Fluke 77
cheaterhi
password4hi cheater
restorergreetings
theBearhmm.... someone in the distro frame (pots for the block of flats) outside my front room, lunchtime on a sat when it's a few clicks past 30C out there.... why do i get the feeling maybe it's some jackass what shouldn't have his jackassed hands messing around near to the cables that connect me to y'all ?
theBearnot really a time or temp you see a lotta telco techs working hard
SpeedEvilOn an unrelated note.
SpeedEvil"Payload will be my midnight cherry Tesla Roadster playing Space Oddity. Destination is Mars orbit. Will be in deep space for a billion years or so if it doesn’t blow up on ascent.
theBearreallly ? i wasn't expecting that to come next !
theBearheh
SpeedEvilTodays game of "guess whos tweet"
theBearwhose ? /me isn't au fait with all this twatter and social networkery the kids are into these days
theBearwho's'es ? <grin>
SpeedEvilElon Musk.
SpeedEvilIf he's on ambien or not is questionable.
SpeedEvil(falcon 9 heavy is launching in Jan, and has no official payload as yet)
theBearhmm, i heard of that, must be something famous... tho in writing looks suspiciously like some kinda olde-timey cologne <grin>
theBear"what ? oh no, that's just my natural elon musk, i always smell like this :] "
theBeari also noticed while cleaning up a few 10's of megs on the old ooold oooooold server where the motion-detected videos land, that some fancy lookin feller with a shirt and tie and some kinda papers under his arm knocked on my door around 9am thismorning... i guessing not very hard... wonder what that was all about
SpeedEvilTrying to sell you timeshare?
theBearcertainly a lotta noises coming thru the ceiling from the axe-murder flat that been empty a little over a year now... wonder if it new people making it comfier for themselves or relatives trying harder to make it sell in a major market slump
theBearlol, that'd be a waste of time, heh, reminds me of when i was often a bit drunker than avg first thing in the morning a while back, and got into a habit of ranting at those poor bastard mormon fellers trying to share the good word with me.... you can imagine how it was, the poor fools didn't have a chance <grin> but on a serious note, naaaaah, the frontdoor cam sees solicitey types going to the other places upstairs and across from me sooner or la
theBearthis was straight in from the carpark direction (far from the streetfront) and back the same way
kcawACTION recommends v0dkaw
omegatLooking for help on Aperture Antennas
jlfreading sentence with no subject
theBear selection unrelated words side-by-side
kcaw"NO TESLA PARKING"' -- sign seen in Fremont, California
jlfomg somebody with an opinion made a sign and then somebody else saw it
kcawnope
kcawofficial sign right across from the Tesla (NUMMI) factory
password4what is 'tesla parking' now
SpeedEvilpassword4: Mars orbit
Bird|otherboxwell, this'll be interesting
SpeedEvilhttps://twitter.com/RocketJoy/status/936786839268032513 @beeberunner @nextspaceflight oh this is legit and of course there will be cameras!
SpeedEvil(spacex head of new product development)
kcawNext launch at KSC: Dragon SpaceX 13
intranicki guess spacex is sending a car to mars
kcawhttp://spacelaunchinfo.com/
kcaw20171208
kcawI will try to watch
SpeedEvilintranick: odd.
kcawcurrently 11 miles from the launch pad
BohemianHacksin this boost converter circuit, isnt the 5v line going to get voltage spikes coming off of the coil? https://cdn.instructables.com/F9O/XNUE/IO6DZTC5/F9OXNUEIO6DZTC5.MEDIUM.jpg
kcawit's right across the Indian River
SpeedEvilI would rather see a payload with a lot of stupid crap on it. For example, put up a dozen mostly unmodified robot arms and have them screw with meccano and lego and assembly of small things in space
SpeedEvilOr hobbyking reaction wheels
kcawI still have a Meccano set :)
BohemianHacksor is that handled by D1?
zigggggykcaw! caw!
kcawCaW !
zigggggylokl
gogohomehello where i can get bitcoin?
SpeedEvil#bitcoin
gogohomewhen i ask bitcoin in the #bitcoin i m banned :(
gogohomei just ask only $1
gogohomethis is justice?
gogohomeSpeedEvil: ?
bongofuryget bicoin on bicon
bongofurygo git it
gogohomebicon?
gogohomewhat is bicon?
bongofurysprinkled nuclear reactors in the middle east
bongofurystolen hillary clinton bitcons
bongofuryemail hash
gogohomebitcon?
bongofurygogohomecoin
gogohomei want coin
gogohomeinstead of con
SpeedEvilhttps://twitter.com/bitcoin_pizza
SpeedEvilThe #Bitcoin pizza is worth $109,505,907 today. (+11% from yesterday)
gogohomei heard that electronics member is very kind
SpeedEvilWe're not.
bongofuryi hear you're gonna get banned
gogohomeso can i get only $1 from this channel per person?
bongofuryyup, you're banned
gogohome:(
theBearthere's a pizza involved ? suddenly bitcoins sound a whole lot more interesting
bongofury/mode ##electronics +b *!*@*mitmf
gogohomebongofury: why?
gogohomefury ban? bongofury ?
gogohomebongofury: unban me plz
bongofurypicture this:
bongofuryI'm a bag of dicks
bongofuryput me to your lips
bongofuryI am sick
bongofuryI will punch your baby bear in his shit
theBearhow in the eff do you get the bright idea to go from a coin named after the silly things to one named after electronics to ask about 'em ?
bongofurybongcoins
gogohomethere is a guy who can give me only $1 bitcoin in this channel?
theBearhmm... you been coming here to talk nonsense fer almost 6 months now ? talk about dedimication
bongofurySpeedEvil
gogohomeSpeedEvil: can you give me only $1 bit coin?
gogohomebongofury: :)
gogohomebeggar channel?
restoreroh yeah, you're hte frequency guy
theBearmeh, i coulda sworn there was some tricky way to add a note/reason to the end of a ban/quiet/whatever mode in freenode land
theBearmaybe there was, once upon a time
intranickyou still havent banned me
intranickso thats a plus
restorerif I'm going for the lowest cost for low-weight, high-capacity batteries, does it make sense to find the cheapest-per-energy battery pack regardless of voltage, and use a buck or boost module to get my target voltage?
theBearACTION also mentions that it's never a good look when you been appearing in a channel regularly for several months but only created yer freenode acct/login/username a few short weeks ago... kinda points to a pattern of foolish behaviour, i feel :)
theBearheh, something very satisfying about answering a "why you do that" question with an answer that includes something about how this ain't a democracy.... rare thing these days
restorermy target voltage is ~12V, but the best deal I've found so far is 5000mAh at 18.5 nominal volts for ~$34
theBearaiight.. i'm out, you know i'll be back tho
spludI'm out too. Been sorting some config stuff on a router and tweaking a server for my son.
Casperrestorer: there is another thing to consider: you said you target 12V, but do you target 10-14V or 12.00?
restorerthe voltage doesn't need to be strictly regulated
restorerit's a purely resistive load, designed to be operated on car voltage, but it can operate on anything under that - and over that until it starts to melt, really
restorerit's a heating blanket
restorergranted, the more circuitry I add to it, the greater the chance for problematic malfunctions, and the more I'll have to invest in enclosure(s)
silv3r_m00nhi, here http://tinyurl.com/ydyxh4fl in the second circuit, what effect does the 1k resistor have ?
AllTunaHey
AllTunaI'm looking for soldering iron suggestions
AllTunaNever used one before, going to be rarely used, small electronics
tawrsilv3r_m00n:
tawrremove the scopes on the bottom, just right click - > remove scope
tawronce you remove all the scopes silv3r_m00n, click on the cap in circuit 1, and click view in scope
tawrthen do the same for the second circuit
tawrthen you'll see, on the oscope, the difference
tawrAllTuna: eh, price range?
tawrthat being said, any 15-20w iron will work for you. maybe even 25w plugin
AllTunaI wanted to go under 70 usd or so
tawrno reason for you to spend ~100 for something you aren't going to use very often (unless you want too)
AllTunaLiterally everyone is saying this Hakko FX888D.. but it's probably way overkill here
silv3r_m00ntawr: i can see that the first circuit has a higher amplitude while the second one has a much lower amplitude of oscillation. so the resistor reduces the amplitude ?
tawrAllTuna: the best all around high end hobbiest would be a hakko 888d
restoreryou can get quite a decent one for ~$35
tawryou can't go wrong with the 888, but from your description it sounds like it's way too much
tawrsilv3r_m00n: look at the voltage at the cap
tawralso
restorer^
AllTunaIs there something like the 888 with less power or somethin that'll be more suitable?
tawrAllTuna: i mean, do you want adjustable temp, or just a normal plugin 10 dollar iron?
CCFL_Manwelp, this lantronix uds-10 terminal server works
restorerI bought a 936A knockoff on eBay when I started to get serious earlier this year
AllTunaI'd lke it to have all the features, adjustable temp etc, so that my life is made easier
restorerI can highly recommend it at.., oh $20, vs. the $5 iron I tried to get by with for too long
tawri mean, yes it makes a difference, but don't be fooled. you can do great work with a non-temp control plugin AllTuna
CCFL_Manthe db25 to rj45 adapter i pinned is working
tawra decent quality 15-20 dollar plugin non-adjustable can do everything, it's just more user skill required
AllTunatawr, it's just that I know nothing, and I'm very new to soldering, so the smaller the learning curve the better
restorerAllTuna: go for anything like this https://www.ebay.com/itm/936A-SMD-110V-Electric-Soldering-Station-Solder-Iron-Welding-Tool-Kit-w-Stand/
AllTunaHmm
restorerthe only learning curve is that it's not very well calibrated, so you'll have to ignore the numbers on the knob and go for what eventually "feels" right
KamilionACTION had great luck with his radioshack digital soldering iron
AllTunaIsn't there a reasonable sparkfun kit?
restorerand it only comes with one tip (I found I like using a medium chisel tip much better)
restorerI assume the Weller they sell is about the same too, but I have no experience with it
Kamilionhttps://www.rcnitrotalk.com/forum/attachments/photobucket-5408-1330382455610-jpg.70424/
KamilionGreat unit for $40ish
restoreras long as replacement tips (in different shapes) are easy to get
Kamilionbut it's hell to find tips for
Kamiliontakes aoyue tips, I've found
AllTunaThat thing is massive
restorerAllTuna: how much do you want to minimize bulkiness?
AllTunaI guess its kind of important
silv3r_m00ntawr: would it be correct to say that the resistor controls the amplitude of the oscillation
AllTunaAll of these, am I able to use them in a room without airflow, or are they lead or something
restorerI'll also recommend trying out the brass type of tip-cleaning sponge instead of the kind you have to keep wet
restorerhttps://www.sparkfun.com/products/8964 this kind
restorerit's a lot more convenient for me
Kamilionthe solder is the part that's gonna be leaded, and sure, I did fine soldering in a bedroom without airflow, it just gets rather uncomfortable on the eyes after a bit.
AllTunaIsn't that super dangerous?
restorerAllTuna: heh, you should be using lead-tin solder, it's just much easier to work with, but the only risk is if you suck on your fingers after handling a bunch of solder
Kamilionhttps://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01FFPE0EG/ I've seen some of these 19V laptop supply soldering irons, but I've only got the little usb 8W one
restorerrisk from lead, anyway
restoreryou will get flux fumes from the flux core in the solder, which you should not breathe in directly
Kamilionand it makes your eyes sting too
restoreryou won't be doing enough soldering to need a fume extractor or even a charcoal-filtered fan
Kamilionyeah, I do soldering right here in front of the computer with my little 8W USB iron and a single cell lithium boost pack
restorerjust enough air movement around the room, hopefully so it can eventually get to a place that it can diffuse out of your living space
jaggztdarn.. I had some youtube videos in my chrome tabs which now say the account was removed.. I wonder what I kept those tabs up for.. what those videos were for
Kamilionhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-8D5t6TJYU
KamilionA little PC case fan is usually enough
restorerI'm happy enough if I can just get general airflow moving the fume plume away from my face
restorerI had some fun with superglue and basically built a USB powerbank onto a 140mm case fan
restorerso it runs on USB, or on batteries, or charges the batteries, or all at the same time
restorerand it can charge other devices, but I haven't done that yet
Kamilionlot of power banks won't buck and boost at the same time; commonly called 'pass through charging' on amazon
restoreryeah
restorerbut the batteries are connected directly to a separate boost up to 12V
Kamilionone of the car-starter types?
restorerwhich also makes the fan speed adjustable :D
restorerno, just a small adjustable 3A max boost module
Kamilionah
restorerhttps://www.aliexpress.com/item/Cool-XL6009-4A-DC-DC/32345682592.html
Kamilionah
Kamilionwonder if that screwpot could be replaced with one of my i2c pots
restorerright now I have another fan half-disassembled to slip in a buck-boost module, just so I can throttle the speed up and down
restorerKamilion: I have plans to do that for things in the future
restorerI don't know for sure if it'll work either, but I assume it could
Kamilionyeah, just match the i2c pot's range
Kamilionthis X9C103S is... 10k, I think?
restoreryeah, they're almost always 10k in everything I've looked at and wanted to change that way
Kamilionthey have others up to 100k
Kamilionbut I got the 10ks because exactly as you say
restorerer, I mean the pots in these modules
restorerI've seen the 10k and 100k digital pots too
Kamilioni havn't had a change to pull 'em out of the bags and solder the headers on yet though
Kamiliongot some ina current sensors in the same shipment too
KamilionLVDC
Kamiliongetting ready to make another order pretty soon
Kamilionprobably go for some ili9341 displays this time, havn't decided what else, I've already got the white 128x64 oleds to play with, but i've been itching for something a bit higher resolution... had one of the 4D 1.44" panels like 6-7 years ago and liked it, but it's too high of a premium now
AllTunaOk, I might just get the 888.. by the time it gets to australia, I might be paying what.. $70 more than an average iron
AllTunaAny suggestions for where to buy it on the cheap with international shipping?
restorerthat depends on whether you're willing to go for a knockoff
restorerif not, it's hard to also make sure the "Hakko" you're buying is genuine
AllTunaOooh, great
restorerif you're buying internationally, that is
AllTunaWhat are the knockoffs like?
restorerbut really, the knockoffs work fine, it's just not worth paying more than a knockoff price for them
bouncefor occasional repairs I'm getting by fine with this here 25W velleman plug-in. isn't there a local electronics store where you can get a decent thing for $20 or so?
KamilionAllTuna: I've been messing with this stuff for 20+ years and have not found myself needing anything more than about 40W unless I'm soldering RC battery cables with cable half as thick as my pinkie.
AllTunaIn Australia everything is 200% overprices
AllTunaIt's just hard to know what to buy cause there are so many options..
AllTunaand everyone points to the 888
KamilionI pay for quality, but so far I've not needed to go on the pro side -- however, having something that takes commonly available hakko tips is probably worth a lot more than the stress I have to go through looking for tips that fit.
Kamilionyeah, of course everyone's pointing you to the thing they'd buy if they could *chuckles*
restorerif you have the time and patience to watch videos about knockoff quality... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XrUjhFUm8OM&t=210s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIab66EgfHM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSweeoah-5s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OeILL08T08w https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-8D5t6TJYU
Kamilionhttps://photos.app.goo.gl/BiFiEhZLv0RhFIdq2
bounceI don't actually even have any tips but the one it came with. never needed any more so far.
KamilionThat's the three irons I work with
restoreranyway, I only chose this iron because of the recommendations and the availability of affordable (cheap even) tips
Kamilionhttps://photos.app.goo.gl/gt6VyrDILg35oLlS2
knapstackHi, Is it possible to create a 200 K resistor with 2 100 K resistor ?
KamilionI got that 852D++ clone for the same reason, was cheap to find tips for (and had hot air)
restorerI bought one of those USB irons (well, two...) but I have no idea when I'll ever get around to using it, with my main iron right here
restorerI haven't done any soldering out of the house yet
Kamilionrestorer: I've actually been using it in preference to the two in that picture.
Kamilioncause I've mostly been working on blackpill boards recently
Kamilionand it's a hassle to go over to the soldering stations and back here to the computer to test it with USB
restorerah
KamilionI almost always have my powerbank/flashlight on me
Kamilionso it's no sweat to just plug the iron into it and desolder a joint, mess about for a minute, and solder another two joints before unplugging it and spending another hour or two at the terminal
bouncebut usb gets you what, 2.5W? how's that going to get decent heat?
restorerACTION nods
Kamilionuh
Kamilion8-9 watts.
Kamilion2.1A from the battery.
bounceoh, a battery.
restorerthis iron claims 8W, USB can get in excess of 11W even on the older charging standard
Kamilionthat's why I wouldn't plug it into a computer's 500ma current limited USB2.0 port
Kamilionor even a 900ma USB3 port
restorerwall chargers too
Kamilionit really wants something north of 1.5A
Kamilionand it's a risk to plug it into a phone charger
Kamilionand I'm already carrying a single cell boostpack that does 2 amps
bouncethat sort-of defeats the idea of "universal", dunnit. "yeah you can plug it into any usb, but not this, and not that one, and don't even try those, and..."
knapstackLets say I have 2 100k ohms resistor , if i connect both in series and attach ends of multimeter on 2 ends .. would it show 200 kohms ???
Kamilionhttp://romoss.com.sg/product/solo-2/
MetalSuttonHey all I have a circuit that I am using to power RGB leds. I am controlling it via pwm arduino and using some big bulky expensive 60v 16A N-Mosfets to alter the voltage. I want to decrease the size of these fets. The circuit is a 12v and power supply is rated for 2.5a. Im just curious as to what specs on the data sheet should i be looking at for n
MetalSuttonew fets.
Kamilionsays it's 4AH but that's bullcrap.
restorerknapstack: yes
Kamilion3200mAh, tops
MetalSuttonsince its a fet per channel, do I just need a fet thats rated at 12v and 2.5a?
Kamilion... perhaps you should consider measuring what it's using and then using that as your basis?
knapstackrestorer : Thanks, What are some good options for Battery to purchase ?
bounceon another note, anyone tried gas-powered ("lighter gas") soldering? such a thing worth having around?
MetalSuttonIts a modular design, so i will add and subtract chains of led's
Kamilioni get addressable light strip by the 5 meter roll; it's kind of hard to work out exactly how much each strip I cut off the end will consume. I know the spec sheet says 21.7W/m
Kamilionbut the sheet also says vMax is 16.2V and vMin is 9.55V
tawrfor what the 2813's Kamilion ?
restorerbounce: I have a cheap butane soldering iron for backup, mostly for when the power goes out (before I had the USB iron)
knapstackI need a +5 V as Input to the circuit , particularly to IC LM324. What Battery should i use ??
Kamilionthe specific ones I'm looking at are APA102s
bouncei
tawrknapstack: read the ebook in topic. it explains basic electronics which your question is.
Kamilioni dunno about the 2812bs; I try to avoid them because their protocol is annoying
restorerbounce: I did use it several times when away from things, in my car
tawri like 6812 rgbw's but same protocol just another few bits per packet
Kamilionthe apa102 is pretty much SPI. Clock and data.
tawras 2812
knapstacktawr: Thanks, But any suggestion for the battery which I should purchase (amazon or any other site )
Kamilioneh? I thought the 2812 was clock recovery?
tawryou asked about resistors. that tells me you don't know electronics. no battery does 5v.
MetalSuttonHow do i measure how much load is on a mosfet? Which pin do i measure?
Kamilionwhich is why you need the whole screwy bitbang protocol on low end micros to speak it at 400/800khz
tawri mean yeah but it's not a big deal
Kamilionor abusing bit pairings to control timing a different way
bouncewhoops tyop
Kamilionknapstack: USB powerbank cellphone chargers output +5.0V
Kamilionthe cells themselves are likely 3.2V to 3.7V
knapstackI was kinda looking at this: https://cdn.instructables.com/FCR/V7DF/HSBWO2J3/FCRV7DFHSBWO2J3.MEDIUM.jpg .. What battery does this folk use?
Kamilionsome use two cells and a voltage boost, some use two cells and a voltage buck to drop down to 5V from 6.8-7.4V.
bouncerestorer: that work decently, as in not too much hassle getting heat where you need it and not where you don't need it?
Kamiliona 9 volt battery.
restorergah, I've been getting distracted all day
tawrthat is a 9v battery, knapstack
restorerI NEED to find some solder and get this order in
tawrknapstack: read the ebook in topic, go watch videos on youtube, you need to learn the basics before trying to do anything. seriously
restorerbounce: nah, the one I have gets lots of heat out the vents on the sides, tends to scorch the work surface if you don't hold it just right
knapstackTrue tawr, thanks. I assume this is the one you talked about: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0039NOKZQ/ref=s9_acsd_top_hd_bw_bQMcW3_c_x_3_w?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=merchandised-search-3&pf_rd_r=AYYTHWMSRCZAHBZFKH7B&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=9f18944a-1b06-5c0d-85d5-0bfe800068c1&pf_rd_i=389576011
restorerdefinitely not suitable for sensitive boards
Kamilionyep, that's a common 9V battery, allright.
KamilionAnd next time, can you trim the URL?
tawrsuch bad links. that is just a 9v battery you can get at literally ANY STORE
bounceright. so wire work and such then
Kamilionhttps://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0039NOKZQ/
Kamilion^ that's all you needed.
restorerpretty much
KamilionACTION uses the rest to break into your amazon account with your cookie keys and spend all your amazon primes on one eight hundred flowers deliveries
knapstackKamilion : Thanks
KamilionHey, just think.
KamilionIt could be worse. I could have bought you a dollhouse.
bouncebrand? there's the weller pyropen (spendy!) and a velleman thing, might be better.
tawrwait send a "Bag of Dicks" to someone when oyu're at it Kamilion
knapstackhaha
Kamilioni was actually on discord with a friend that had amazon alexa
Kamilionand I yelled 'alexa buy me a dollhouse' and it actually responded.
Kamilionshe was a bit pissed, lol
Kamilioni couldn't stop laughing for about five minutes straight
Kamilionhttps://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/01/07/tv_anchor_says_alexa_buy_me_a_dollhouse_and_she_does/
KamilionCause it was supposed to have been fixed in like febuary
knapstackMaybe due to an unintended skill-set
HighInBCya, that is a bug sure
bounceoh, might see if there's any electronics MOOCs besides the MIT one. I hated that shouty guy so much I quit the course. (also I was overworked, but let's not spoil a good gripe.)
HighInBCclearly by design
bounceperhaps bezos has puts in dollhouse companies
Kamilionyeah, like the microsoft titanfall commercial trying to start the game if you had an xbox, back in 2014...
Kamilionand now all the EA yelling about star wars
Kamilionhttps://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/200311791492792330/386378670316453889/unknown.png
Kamilionmaybe it was all just a trick to get titanfall to the top of the peak player count chart
password4maybe its hapy accident
jaggzthttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c97R5ko6LTA&feature=youtu.be
jaggztI made that
jaggztit's awful
silv3r_m00nhi, what should be done in the first circuit here http://tinyurl.com/y97x3ev7 to make it sustain oscillations ?
bongofuryI'm still shocked that people put those surveillance devices in their homes
bouncejust tell them "It's The Future" and they'll go "oh okay" and pay a premium for being all up there with the future, too.
Casperdoes anyone knows how long bestbuy take care of warranty in store?
CasperI have some broken earphones... again broken... that's what happend when you wear them every days...
Kamiliondepends on the warranty they pushed on you when you bought them
Kamilionotherwise, you'll have to deal with the manufacturer's warranty
bongofurysennheisers go back to them iirc
Casperbongofury: how did you know it was that brand? :(
Kamilionbongofury: nah, squaretrade policies almost never have the consumer RMA directly with the manufacturer
Flea86silv3r_m00n: Here's the result of my own tinkering with it http://tinyurl.com/y75ba8vv
Kamilionalso, when my friend's cats chewed through the cord of his AKGs; AKG told him to buy new ones.
KamilionStupid cats.
silv3r_m00nFlea86: yeah, L C in series does work, i checked that, but when having 1 c in parallel to L its not working
bongofuryi had sennheiser phones
bongofurythey broke
bongofuryi got factory replacement
bongofuryi got em at JandR
bongofurydiff animal I guess
silv3r_m00nFlea86: the first one here, http://tinyurl.com/y8z7ufts
bongofurySennheiser loves to make their cables friable
Kamiliondepends; my boss can usually talk his way into getting stuff replaced; that's why he wears the suit and I wear the jeans and tshirt.
Kamilioni know he's gone through several sets of sennheisers and bose
Kamilionso it probably depends on company to company
Kamilioni got some brainwavz beta iems from mp4nation a couple years back and havn't bothered switching since.
Kamilionerrybody's taste is a bit different.
Casperbongofury: this one have a connector issue for the mic
Flea86silv3r_m00n: It's been a long while since I've last tinkered with discrete oscillator circuits, but I'm not quite seeing how that one would work
silv3r_m00nFlea86: the first one seems to be a very popular bug oscillator, (http://talkingelectronics.com/projects/Spy%20Circuits/images/1TrBugTappedCoil.gif) and there are numerous youtube videos showing the practical
silv3r_m00nit does work indeed
silv3r_m00nand i cant understand how
silv3r_m00nthats why sketching the circuits to see what happens underneath
CasperI wish there was some good quality bluetooth earphones with a 12+ hours battery
Casperthat ain't expensive
Kamiliongood quality and bluetooth are mutually exclusive, sorry
knapstackWhere can you purchase a 0.01 uF (103 code) capacitor online ?
Kamilionmaybe bluetooth5's faster data rate, but without a new bluetooth profile beyond A2DP, we're still stuck with the same crummy 32khz stereo
Flea86silv3r_m00n: Sure, I'm referring to your unlabelled circuit #1
Kamilionor 8khz mono + 8khz mono telco audio from HSP
silv3r_m00nFlea86: check the 2nd one, its closer to the talkingcircuit example
Flea86Sure. I don't see any issue with that one, I've built that circuit a few times myself :D
Flea86in the past
Kamilionsilv3r_m00n: that looks simple enough to run through ltspice
Flea86silv3r_m00n: There's a good description of how that circuit is meant to work online, if only I can find it now
Kamilionoh, never mind
Kamiliondidn't notice Flea86's earlier link was to an online spice
kmcmmmmmmm currywurst
Flea86Kamilion: Yeah, Falstad sim is a pretty convenient thing to play with
kmcit's great fun
silv3r_m00nFlea86: and then ? why isnt the simulation working ?
kmcgood for learning concepts
kmcbut it's not accurate enough to choose component values and there are some tricky circuits it can't do at all
kmcdid you see that someone made a fork to add a bunch of insane "free energy" circuits and miscellaneous gibberish
kmcinternet's always good for a laugh
jsoftI could do with some free energy
Flea86silv3r_m00n: What about it isn't working? It's oscillating fine here for me...
kmcyeah I've always been disappointed by the quality of sennheiser cables, even though the headphones themselves are quite good
silv3r_m00nFlea86: the 2nd one ?
Flea86Yes
silv3r_m00nFlea86: how ? link ?
silv3r_m00nFlea86: the osc is damped
Flea86oh wait lol sorry wrong circuit.. I'm looking at my corrected one still :P
Flea86ACTION runs
knapstackwhy aren't there any 1 uf ceramic capacitor on amazon =/
password4whya re you buying caps on amazon?
jsoftYeah amazon is not the place for caps
bouncesure there are. you just have to buy some apparatus with them in it.
password4bounce their in test crcuits already XD
archivistfleas dont run they jump
bounce"their"? o_O
password4meh
Sculptordon't speak about fleas. my hair is itching
silv3r_m00nwhen doing simulations, how much resistance should i put with an L or C to make it more real ?
AllTunaOpinions on the Weller WLC100 for first time soldering?
password4silv3r_m00n, a dataheet will tell you
silv3r_m00npassword4: any quick values to use with falstad.com ? would 100 milliohm be fine ?
password4depends on what you are doing , but ye
password4thumbsuck a value ad test it
silv3r_m00nwhen doing oscillator simulations in falstad is there some neat way to determine whether the oscs are damped or not ? sometimes i feel that even though the oscs are looking good, they would damp away slowly after an hour
KamilionAllTuna: pretty much any weller or hakko is a good choice; they're both old brands with a long history of well reguarded products.
knapstackpassword4: So, from where should I get 1 uf (105 code) capacitor
AllTunaKamilion, considering I still have to buy solder and stuff, I think I'll just go with that one
AllTunaWhich solder should I buy
AllTunaand do I need anything else?
password4aliexpress , arrow , digkey , rs componets
password4mouser
Kamilioniron, solder, flux, desolder braid, replacement sponges or some brass sponge...
Flea86silv3r_m00n: I get the feeling you might want to try that circuit in ltspice
Kamilionand what solder depends on what kind of work
Flea86and use a transistor model with a known Ft
Kamilionfor big battery terminals, I use the heavy leaded pipe solder
silv3r_m00nFlea86: falstad.com cant simulae it ?
Kamilionfor delicate electronics, I tend to use delta solder
silv3r_m00ni am getting really comfortable with falstad, instead of command line ngspice
Flea86silv3r_m00n: I don't know what Ft they're assuming for the transistor model
silv3r_m00nby the way, in falstad is it possible to label the components differently ? other than their actual values ?
KamilionAllTuna: generally, for small electronics, you probably want something like sn60/pb40 0.032 ~3% flux rosin core solder
KamilionAllTuna: https://photos.app.goo.gl/C3ibqnkLvisfrlbG2
AllTunaOk, I guess I'll get that then
AllTunaIs that controversial in any way?
AllTunaor pretty standard
KamilionI got mine from fry's electronics for 1.79 a tube
Kamilioni've looked on amazon and it's way more expensive there
Kamilionalways keep your tip tinned with solder
Kamilionlast thing you should do before putting it away is get it nice and shiny and let it cool with enough solder to coat the tip of the iron.
Kamilionyou can see my irons have some discoloration -- that's totally normal where you see it on my irons. But my tips are shiny and tinned.
Kamilionalso, the part that's discolored gets very hot. That's not where you're supposed to hold it.
bouncecue infamous stock photo
AllTunaIf I was to get one thing of solder for small electronics work, could you link me the product you'd recommend
Kamilionhttps://static.boredpanda.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/stock-image-fail-soldering-iron-bob-byron-fb.png
Kamilion^ infamous stock photo
Kamilionif there's one thing about soldering that you should know
Kamilionit's, DON'T DO THAT.
AllTunaHaha ok, noted
bounceany random 60/40 rosin core. this here tube is from a hardware store. 1mm, wouldn't get bigger than that. smaller if you need to do smaller work.
Kamilionthat's 40% lead
Kamilionas was noted earlier, don't lick your fingers and you'll be fine
Kamilionoh -- and get some flux remover wash
KamilionI've been confounded time after time with a PCB only to wash off the flux and the next day it acted fine
AllTunaWhat is flux :\
Kamilionstuff mixed in the metal to make it flow better
Kamilionsorta
Kamilionthat's the easiest I can make it
bounce"the stuff you need or the soldering won't go"
AllTunaSo that's in the solder itself?
Kamilionthere's other ways around it, but that requires more skill
Kamilionit CAN be
Kamilionand usually is with electronics solder
Kamilionand usually is not with plumbing solder
AllTunaUuh boy I'm way over my head here
bouncedon't use the nasty flux from the big bottle. it's for plumbing and hobby soldering chunks of metal.
Kamilionk
Kamilionhttp://www.thomaspenrose.com/images_diy/solder_14.jpg
KamilionSee this?
Kamilionbig thick solder and a torch?
Kamilionplumbing solder.
silv3r_m00nFlea86: any tips ?
Kamilionhttps://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71LhjLySpfL._SY355_.jpg
Kamilionit's usually clearly labeled.
KamilionAvoid it.
Kamilion"ooh, lead free"
bounceACTION used to do that in middle school. large-tipped soldering irons, thick solid solder, nasty nasty flux. fun for kids aged... how old was I? great fun though. but your electronics won't thank you.
Kamilionyep, something I also learned the hard way
AllTunaKamilion, think you could link me a solder to add on to my cart in amazon?
Kamilionand left many burn marks on a card table
KamilionAllTuna: USA warehouse?
AllTunaI'm in Aust
AllTunaI could buy here I guess
AllTunaBut having a model to go by would make it easy
bounceoh that note, a cutting mat or something is good
KamilionI'd really suggest you go to a local shop and have a meatperson show you; I know you've got good shops down there
bounces/oh/oh on/
password4then get a fucking datasheet
AllTunaOk, I'll get the solder here
Kamilionit'll be a lot cheaper
AllTunaDoubt that
Kamilionwell, I buy my solder locally, those tubes for $1.79
bouncesee if you can't get a decent starter iron for a couple tenners down there while at it
AllTunaEverything is super expensive here
Kamilionthey sell on amazon for close to $7
AllTunaI expect they'l be $10 here
Kamilionplus another dollar in shipping
Kamilionthe amazon sellers are just gouging people that don't wanna order from multiple places
Kamilionit's common enough I suppose
AllTunaOk so, what was the other stuff again
AllTunaDesolder braid, sponges
bounceusing a (dedicated) kitchen sponge right now. works fine. if buying especially for electronics I'd probably go for that all-metal deal right away.
flybackgaro vanishing line has defintely continued to be a grade a+ anime
zap0anime.. lol. kiddie cartoons.
Kamilionzap0: nope
Kamilionthe one I'm watching now, a dude just got shot in the back of the head and had his chest split open by a short chick
Kamilionthen tossed into a river like he was trash.
password4i use my finger to clean the tip
zap0'a dude'.. i think you'll find it's just a cartoon character of a dude.
Kamilionyep.
bounceprosthetic hands don't count
Kamilionjust like any other actor
password4bounce, i use real hands
Kamilionor polygonal friend
AllTunaAlso looking for a LiPo battery to have on my wrist, smallest possible > 100 mah, any recommendations?
password4AllTuna, why?
AllTunaWristband electonics project
AllTunaHigh pulsed current output
password4dildo?
AllTunaDildo glove.
Kamilionhttps://www.adafruit.com/product/1578
AllTunaHmm, probably way too big
Kamilionhttps://www.adafruit.com/product/1570
AllTunaneeds to fit inside a wristband
Kamilionain't gonna run much on that.
Kamilionif I was gonna put a bulky wristband on, I'd want something that preferably would not incinerate through my wrist if punctured
AllTunaWhat are my other options
Kamilionso maybe arrays of 2.7V supercapacitor watch cells?
AllTunaThat shouldn'
AllTunaThat shouldn't cause much damage if punctured right? 100 mag
AllTunamah*
Kamilionno exploding risk there, but a discharge risk instead
AllTunaDischarge risk?
KamilionI'd take getting shocked over missing a hand any day
AllTunaI need ~3.7v, 80ma output 3 times an hour for 5 seconds
Kamilionyep, capacitors store as a static charge; and can discharge it pretty much instantly.
Kamilionthen I'd suggest a bigger battery in your pocket with a Qi charger source, and a Qi charger antenna on your watch thing
Kamilionthen you can just put your hand in your pocket to charge it.
bouncecouple CR2032s?
AllTunainteresting, doesn't sound too pratical tho
jsoftSee this here: https://www.onsemi.com/pub/Collateral/MC34063A-D.PDF on page 5, do you reckon switching in and out the GND on that to disable it to save power ? ( ie when not required ) ?
AllTunaCR2032's wont work with that much current
bounceACTION moves that apostrophe a little to the right
Kamiliononly thing I could think of that would use a lot of current would be bright LEDs or motors.
AllTunaHehe
AllTunaKamilion, motors
Kamilionlensmotorsssssssss
Kamilionlike lensmen
Kamilionbut motors instead of men
AllTunaSo, https://www.adafruit.com/product/1570, will blow my hand off if punctured?
theBearvarta among others have a good cr2032 datasheet with real specs in it
Kamilionif you had a ring of them around the wristband, maybe
AllTunaI just need 1
Kamilionlithium does not react well with air
AllTunaBut It'll be on my arm 24/7
Kamilionburninate is the verb i'd use.
theBearwell at least it if blows your hand off it won't be on your arm anymore <grin>
theBearACTION prefers exploderize
AllTuna:(
zap0burninate the peasants
theBeardon't be sad ! that's a positive thing
theBearerr, i think
AllTunaWell, then I'm shit outa luck..
theBear"they raped the fields and pillaged the women ! evil men indeed ..."
Kamilionnah, you just require more vespene gas. Also skill points. Get more of those.
bounce.oO( nuclear launch, detected. )
KamilionThen you might be able to venture into a computerized wrist of the future.
AllTunaWhat's this Qi thing you were talking about
bouncelots of exploding lithium but at least it's got a built-in healing agent
Kamilion"chi"
Kamilionwireless charging through induction
Kamilionlike toothbrusges
AllTunaSo what would be on my wrist?
Kamilioncoil of antenna and a small battery.
AllTunaWould it handle the current output?
Kamilionhttps://www.amazon.com/Wireless-Charging-Receiver-Universal-Narrow-interface/dp/B00YGV76LK
bouncewhich reminds me, I noticed the specs said the toothbrush had NiCd batteries in it. sounds like the absolute worst choice for daily "brush a bit, stick it back on the charger"-action
Kamilionbounce: but actually is not unless your daily brush runs the nicads out
Kamilionnicads last a long long time if you just use 20% and charge them back to full; complete discharge cycles will reduce their life a lot, but are required every so often or they'll do the memory thing
AllTunaKamilion, don't I still need to figure out a battery source if I use the Qi thing?
Kamilionalso requires a decent microprocessor controlled charger, not just some crap $4 wall wart
bouncehuh, so the memory thing only kicks in after a couple cycles
theBearin my experience and what i observed here and similar places, unless you short the crap outta them or physically bash a big dent in em or something, it's pretty rare for modern/current lithium batts of any style to go kaboom .... the nightmare videos you used to see when they were a pretty new kinda product (at least mass-production wise) seemed to be just getting the whole assembly/manuf/design process bugs worked out afaict
Kamilionbounce: more like over the course of a hundred short cycles
AllTunatheBear, still though, I like my hand.
Kamilionwith each short cycle adding a bit to the overall effect
KamilionAllTuna: we're just trying to scare you with the worst case scenario because this is safety stuff we already know
bounceso "once a month" is about right, assuming using the thing twice a day
Kamilionyep
theBearlithium ain't got any noticable mem-effect, or even measurable when you trying to encourage them to do it... main thing is just not to run them too flat and if you wanna have a lotta extra life you cutoff the charge somewhere in the 80-90% region and they loves it
Kamilionlithium loves short cycles even more
bounceright, that hadn't come through at all somehow. yay "common sense"
theBearalso excessively high numbers of charges (by regular charging in small chunks vs fairly large single charges) seems to wear em a bit quicker, from what the numbers and very anecdotal kinda observations have shown me
KamilionI've got a laptop that has never discharged past 60% and it's got about 1500 'charge's on it
Kamiliona little asus netbook from 2010.
bounceACTION instead just ran the thing down from full, though it took weeks each time
theBearKamilion, that ain't so much about the short cycles as the not getting close to full, from what i observed/got outta data
KamilionStill going strong on it's original battery
Kamilionthat's also true
bouncehaven't used it in a goodly while now though. might be dead from disuse.
Kamilionit only charges to 11.1v
AllTunaSurely there are products on the market that require high output on someones wrist. How are they powered?
bounce2010 laptop shipping with NiCd? o_O
theBearmty multimeter still going good on the first charge of the ANCIENT old nokia (pre 'smartfone' era) batteries i squeezed in wwhere the 9v used to go probly 18 months or longer ago ;-)
KamilionAllTuna: by careful software engineering to clock the cpu down wherever they can, and special LCDs with their own framebuffer that will hold the screen state while the CPU's asleep.
theBearand yeah, my 2010-ish eee tiny lappy still has many hours of solid battery life
bouncehey, I still use those nokias, and I need new batteries
Kamilioni'm following along sprite_tm's last footsteps with the itty bitty mac
theBearthere's a bunch of stuff in the dp (maybe just the eDP sub-spec, been a while since i looked too hard) about ways to both implement and work with that semi-update style stuff, both from the lcd end of things, and the thing driving the video from the other end
Kamilionhttps://hackaday.com/2017/11/27/jeroen-domburg-miniaturizes-a-mac/
Kamilionit uses a smartwatch LCD, and a gaming mouse SPI sensor
theBearbounce, throw me the batt p/n's in a /msg and i have alook later on... over the years of being cripple-retired and fixing all kinds of tiny (aka light and easy to deal with) thing like mobiles and lappies for friends and their friends, i collected a crazy number of ex-fones and batts and stuff for the spares pile
Kamilionhttps://hackaday.com/2016/11/28/tiniest-game-boy-hides-in-your-pocket/
Kamilionlast time he made this tiny almost too tiny to play gameboy color
theBearit does ? /me checks his pockets
KamilionAllTuna: the battery life on either one of these is only a few hours
Kamiliondespite the same CPU being able to last weeks on a cr2032 if set up to deep sleep correctly
Kamilionand some of the little nordic tags can last year and/or harvest ambient RF energy to power themselves
Snizzryo
Kamilionradio waves vibrate the antenna which slowly accumulates charge in a capacitor until a voltage threshold, then it's all consumed in a wireless burst.
Kamilionsuper-neat stuff.
KamilionAllTuna: the biggest problem with all the smartwatches today is terrible terrible terrible battery life of less than 24 hours, outside of a few like the old pebbles
password4Kamilion, well why do you think is that?
Kamilionso the problem to solve is a better way to keep them charging during the day
KamilionI think is that because that is.
KamilionWhy? My neurons tell me so.
KamilionReason, I lack. Knowledge, Spaaaaaaaaaades.
bounceon another note, I have one of those hated touch-screen phone deals here too, and it seems to lose charge even while off. as in, half a week to go from 50% to naught while off. anything obvious to look at?
password4well its one thing to point out an issue , its another to solve it
Kamilionquite.
Kamilionremind me to tell you about my shit powere spacecraft sometime.
password4for just keepin time , meh , you'll go decades , for linking to a gs satelite , a hone and monitoring acelrometr , that takes juices
password4gps
SnizzrHi everyone :P
password4Hi everyyou
Snizzrhey man
Kamilionif you just wanna keep accurate time; get one of those 1981 casios everyone loved so much. Only off by a second a year (versus a second a month of most of the other quartz)
bounceyou'll be labereld terrist if you do
bounces/rel/le/
Kamilionwell, i mean, terrorists want to keep accurate time too...
Kamilionit's not as if we could spoof every terrorist's iphone with january first ninteen seventy
Kamilionotherwise the evil bit would have totally worked.
bouncejust you watch the new generation of gps satellites. instead of "selective availability", etc.
Kamilionhttps://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc3514.txt
Kamilionnobody even bothers following the existing RFCs, so they just write more.
bouncewhat, did they do a second evil bit rfc? how... good I stopped following those ages ago
KamilionCorrect functioning of security mechanisms depend critically on the evil bit being set properly. If faulty components do not set the evil bit to 1 when appropriate, firewalls will not be able to do their jobs properly.
bounceah, no, that's just "best current industry practice" for the computer security industry, has been that way since foreverity
bounceso that's a bit like how dilbert originated as nature studies (and nature still regularly outdoes it, too)
Kamilion*sigh*... I've met far too many pointy haired bosses for my own good.
KamilionNot suprising given that I'm in silicon valley, though.
bounce"overcaffeinated bullshit" is pretty much their entire reason for being
Kamilionhttps://tweakers.net/geek/132461/tweaker-maakt-minuscule-macintosh-plus-met-smartwatchscherm.html
Kamilionthere we go, some nice pictures there.
Kamilionthe very latest in smartwatch techrorogy
password4this actuallyblows my mind https://youtu.be/-Hpg214Kk_U
darsieAre there I2C IO expanders with fully configurable address?
immibisACTION is pointing a laser at an LED to use it as a photodiode because his photodiodes didn't arrive. amusingly the LED looks like it's lit up even though it's not connected to power
Kamiliondarsie: yes, they're called microcontrollers (half-joking, half serious)
darsieimmibis: You can also use a glass diodes.
darsieKamilion: yeah
KamilionI use blackpill boards
kmc== Kamilion
immibisgood idea Kamilion
kmcsome mcu can do really low power I2C where it only wakes up when it sees the right address
darsieKamilion: I read attinies are difficult as I2C slaves.
immibisACTION wishes he had an oscilloscope to see what this is actually doing instead of using an arduino to record data
Kamilionthey're about $2 each, make good USB to uart/spi/i2c, or i2c or spi expanders (i'm working on an SPI slave to PATA master thing)
Kamiliondarsie: dunno, I don't use atmel stuff, they generally don't have enough RAM. I really hate being constrained anywhere below a commodore 64's capabilities.
Kamilionand most of the ATMega32U4s are too small, so the attinys are way too small
KamilionI don't have time to manually reorder instructions
immibisyou can also use a 74HC595 for a SPI output expander, or a 74HC165 for a SPI input expander, unfortunately each chip is hardwired to only work in one direction
darsieHow too small? Too few pins?
KamilionI'll just get maple mini clones at 72Mhz instead.
immibisthose are even cheaper
immibis(and not I2C)
darsieimmibis: How many can I connect to one SPI bus?
Kamiliondarsie: 20-32kb of ram is not my idea of a fun time.
immibisdarsie: as many as you want basically, they daisy-chain
immibisof course if you daisy-chain them, then the more pins you use, the longer it takes to read/write them all
immibistechnically they're shift register chips, they were designed before SPI was a thing
Kamilion128kb is my minimum preferred, a half meg is good, more than about 16 meg is overkill for a microcontroller
Kamilionversus a system on a chip
Drakonite"more than about 16 meg is overkill for a microcontroller" ... that's an understatement
Kamilionyeah, then you're starting to get into system on a chip territory once you hit about 32MB
Kamilionand a linux kernel and all the trappings of libc choice and initramfs
Kamilionunder sixteen megs, linux is really kind of a pain to make worthwhile.
DrakoniteI'd say you're leaving the realm of MCUs waaay before 32MB :P
immibisyou're definitely leaving the realm of MCUs when you start thinking about linux
KamilionEh, the ESP32 I'm working with right now has 4MB of PSRAM plus about half a meg of internal DRAM.
Kamiliontoo small for linux, and it's mmu is too baby
Kamilionsomeone COULD spend the time porting it; but for what? And to run what?
Kamilionhttps://github.com/loboris/MicroPython_ESP32_psRAM_LoBo
KamilionSo, instead of running /usr/bin/python, I just run micropython.
Kamilionwhich calls mostly C functions.
Drakoniteif you're trying to run an OS on it, it's not an MCU, and you're not MCUing properly :P
Kamilioncause python's really good at scripting fast glue functions.
Kamilionwhat do you mean by OS?
Kamiliondoes FreeRTOS qualify?
Kamilionwhat bout l4? or mach?
kmcor NuttX
KamilionQNX? Vxworks?
KamilionI can get a single .bin out of about half those
DrakoniteI'm so very not interested in arguing about technicalities tonight
kmcyou're just interested in making blanket statements :P
Kamilionyeah, it runs FreeRTOS. But it's not like it gives me a full posix environment
KamilionI don't get a shell, just a repl
kmcfortunately and thank the heavens, POSIX is not the be all end all of operating systems :D
Kamilionit's not even an operating system, merely an ABI specification.
Kamilionthat's my point
Kamilionwhere do you draw the line
Kamilionwhere the GNU userspace begins?
Kamilionit's stupid and blurry, and I know why he doesn't want to play
KamilionDrakonite: does this amount of SDK functions provided make enough of an OS? http://esp-idf.readthedocs.io/en/latest/api-reference/index.html
Kamilionboolean return, please.
immibisi wouldn't call the ESP a MCU
immibisdunno what I *would* call it, besides "ESP"
OdinYggdhttps://arstechnica.com/science/2017/12/after-37-years-voyager-has-fired-up-its-trajectory-thrusters/
OdinYggdApparently we still have working thrusters on it
Kamilionimmibis: it's more on the MCU side than the SoC side, I'd say.
Kamilioncan't run LEDE/OpenWRT on it. a mite too wee for that.
immibisKamilion: sure, doesn't necessarily mean it's a MCU
Kamilionbut it does microcontrollery things like pin control very well compared to trying to do userspace to gpio in linux
immibis4MB is the amount of RAM required by windows 95
immibis(IIRC)
Kamilionyeah, and I had windows 95 running in qemu on my android many years ago. so?
immibisso your android isn't an MCU
kmcnext let's argue about which languages are "functional"
kmc:P
KamilionAnd because it's got enough power to emulate an 8Mhz 68000 and the rest of the mac plus logic, you suggest it's outside of the microcontroller classification?
Kamilionby the math term or the not math term, kmc?
kmcas in "functional programming"
Kamilionso the math term.
kmcit's not really math but okay.
Kamilionnot the "my python program works better than your php program" kind?
kmcanyway it was a joke / troll because I think semantic arguments about which languages are "functional" are at least as useless as this "operating system" argument
Kamilionwhat about if I substitute nodejs for PHP?
KamilionACTION winks
Cuby96ACTION winks back
KamilionACTION winks out ...---...
DrakoniteCuby96, n.. no. run. just run away.
Cuby96:D
KamilionACTION winks out --.. .- .-.. --. --- / .. ... / -.-. --- -- .. -. --. .-.-.- / -... . .-- .- .-. . / - .... . / --. .-. ..- . .-.-.- / .- .-.. ... --- --..-- / .--. ..- .-. .--. .-.. . / -- --- -. -.- . -.-- / -.. .. ... .... .-- .- ... .... . .-. .-.-.-
darsieThere is no / in morse code.
jsoftmakes it easy to seperate words in there though
darsieUse spaces.
jsoftstill harder to see :P
darsieJust type characters, then :P
jsoftGood point :D
Kamilionmorse decoders will take a / or | as a pause
kmcKamilion: when I do GPIO access on Raspberry Pi, I bypass the kernel entirely :D
Kamilionsure you do, and I'm the queen of ring -1land.
Cuby96Hi, does someone know how to Control a mcp23017 via python on a raspberry pi? I don't know which register i need to access
KamilionI'm half joking
kmcI don't understand, are you doubting this is possible? it's easy.
Kamilionwell, certainly it's possible. Just mmap the registers that deal with the GPIO.
kmcprecisely, I mmap this from /dev/mem
Kamilioncan I have your IP?
kmcI got this from some example C code and even though it's kind of nuts, it works very well
KamilionI've got a few things I'd like to mmap in your /dev/kmem too :3
kmchttps://elinux.org/RPi_GPIO_Code_Samples#Direct_register_access
kmchaha
kmcwell uh thanks I guess lol
kmcbetween this and SCHED_FIFO you can use rpi for some quasi real time stuff
kmcI made a RAII wrapper for the realtime scheduler priority :3
hetiiHi :)
kmcso it's hard to forget to switch back to normal prio
kmchi hetii
Kamilionhttps://github.com/kidoman/embd also works pretty well.
kmcugh, go
Kamilionyes, of course.
KamilionHow else would I get static binary?
Kamiliondicking around forever with gcc and it's linker?
kmcC, C++, Rust
KamilionI'd rather pull my teeth out
Kamilionpfft, manage my own memory
Kamilionwhat do you think this is, the 20th century?
kmcI prefer RAII / smart pointers to garbage collection in many cases
kmcand embedded is usually such a case
veverakKamilion: what the hell as century to do with memory management
veverakACTION was never able to understand that
kmcit's just a way of saying "we have better solutions now" except I don't agree
veverak*has century
kmcGC can be convenient but it has major drawbacks as well
jsoftWhen referring to Ipk ( switched ) on a SMPS IC, that would pretty much be roughly twice the max desired current right?
Cuby96(Cuby96) Well i need something for python using a i2c Connection
veverakkmc: exactly
Kamilionveverak: I use python these days, I don't need to allocate memory explicitly in my python code -- that's done in the C stuff I'm usually calling via ctypes.
veverakthere is no better solution
kmcespecially on embedded or realtime things
veverakthere is just solution with different properties
veverakKamilion: I am very well avare of that
Kamilionyou're aware of my python habits?
veverakpython has good memory model, because it fits it's usecase
veverakso does C++
veverakKamilion: it is easy to guess that you don't malloc memory in python
veverak:)
Cuby96Is there a documentation for the mcp23017 addresses to how i access them?
veverakand that if you don't like managing memory you like GC
veverakanyway, there are still cases when memory management is crucial and usage of GC is pain in the ass
KamilionGC generally won't touch stuff in ctypes, veverak
veverakyeh, which makes sense
Kamilionhttps://github.com/loboris/MicroPython_ESP32_psRAM_LoBo/blob/master/MicroPython_BUILD/components/micropython/esp32/modssh.c
KamilionLike, micropython will never GC any of the SSH stuff
kmcmhm
veverakP.S: I have to say that I have problem saying that C has good memory model, but hey, kernel shows us that it can be good
Kamilionit may GC my object that is making the SSH call
Mangy_DogACTION osolates on a tight frequincy.... So cold
kmcand smart pointers make "manual" memory management pretty convenient
kmcand rust makes "manual" memory management memory-safe as well
veverakKamilion: yeah, that makes sense
kmcbasically you hit the wall when you need to represent arbitrary graphs rather than say trees
kmcbecause memory management for arbitrary graphs is what GC were defined to do
Kamilionmost of the time I'm not doing anything nearly that complex.
Kamiliongenerally just a couple procedural things
kmcyou can't do it nicely with reference counting, if you don't know the shape of the graph ahead of time
kmceven when possible I don't consider weak references a very good solution at all
veverakkmc: I prefer to use C++ memory management because I tend to have big graphs
Kamilionbut the timing needs to be correct; like, say, bitbanging ws2812b (which I don't DO, but it's supported by code I already have as part of the SDK)
veveraklike size of 80% of memory that the hardware has
Kamilionso I'd use python to open the file from spiffs, and load the pattern, then ask the C code to repeat it till I say stop.
veverakI am calm when the memory management is deterministic and it is clear when the memory is freed
kmcyes
Kamilionthe ESP32's got nearly half a meg of internal DRAM, I don't want to worry about memory management
kmcI like that a lot
KamilionI had to do that dealing with ardinos and mBed; and I hate it.
kmcand RAII manages other resources (e.g. lock aquisition, files, sockets, or scheduler priority changes) the same way
veverakdepends
kmcGC can only really managem memory.
veverakfor simple usage, you are correct
hetiiI build psu based on this idea, https://obrazki.elektroda.pl/2835114600_1349335812.jpg, without load it show proper values so for eg when I set 5v@100mA I got 5.07 output, but as soon as I put load for eg 1.5A then on the output I have 5.5V
veverakhowever if you want to get the max out of your CPU
Kamilionplus I'm not spending $34 on a LPC1768 again when I can get an ESP32 for $3
veverakyou have to most of the times
veverakit all depends on the use case
hetiiany clue what can be reason of such behavior?
hetiibtw, from AVR side It still report that I have 5v.
veverakKamilion: and with C++ the memory management is not a pain, really
Kamilionit's actually better for me to overbuild and light sleep/deep sleep/idle than it is to undersize and work the MCU for every single clock cycle
veverakyou do not have to use malloc/free or new/delete
veverak:)
Kamilionand I don't mind FreeRTOS's event loop
Kamilionrather
immibiswhere's the output? half the arrows aren't labelled
KamilionI mind freeRTOS's event loop less than I mind arduino's loop()
immibisis the output the top right?
kmcmodern C++ is a very interesting language
kmcit's truly a hot mess
Kamilionat least there's a string class.
veverakkmc: I like to consider it swiss knife
kmcso many good ideas, but nearly every default is wrong due to backwards compatibility
KamilionACTION glares at BOOST
veverakthere is dozens of mechanisms
veverakyou can choose the way it works based on your needs
veverak-> high degree of flexibility
veverakhowever
veverakdoes not mean you should use every possible mechanism
Kamilionyeah, I like that approach too.
kmcthe most essential parts of boost have got into the stdlib by now
veverakand my eyes cried blood more than once...
veveraklast time was the cgal library
kmcveverak: it's true, however the features are not as orthogonal as I'd like -- for example, there's no good way to handle failure in constructors without exceptions
Kamilionmechanism and policy should be separate if possible; I prefer systems that go for that approach.
Kamilionthat's pretty much what I'm doing with micropython
Kamilionall the mechanism is in C, all the policy is in bytecode.
Kamiliontotally different than say, php, where once upon a time, strlen was used to determine which function was being called from the number of characters in it...
veverakkmc: true, but I personally do not have problems with that
kmcin early PHP they did the laziest possible thing in the implementation and screw the users
Kamilionoh, I should also point out -- I used to do way too much in bash
kmcalso plenty of just not knowing what you're doing
kmclike... using floats for pointer maths???
kmcI've also written some fancy stuff in bash
Kamilionhttps://github.com/kamilion/filetasker/blob/master/ft_common/ft_file_core.sh
KamilionI've done terrifying things in bash that have no right to be written in bash or ash or sh
Kamilionthings that should have used try: catch
Kamilionthings that could have benefitted from exceptions
KamilionI have looked into the recursive eye of madness and returned.
veverakkmc: anyway, I prefer to avoid exceptions whenever possible
Kamilionwitness walk_dirtree() in all it's terrifying glory
Kamilionthe scourge of bash recursion!
veverakkmc: which is doable for stuff that does not intercat with environment
immibisi added a decoupling capacitor to my arduino photodiode circuit and my settling time seems to have been cut by a factor of 3... at only 300 Hz
immibisACTION gets the feeling this is the kind of circuit that shouldn't be built on a solderless breadboard
Kamilionoh, that reminds me, I should get some stripboard.
Kamilionthanks!
n2kmc, they kind of do that still
immibisKamilion: get some stripboard
n2ACTION knew a Zend core developer not that long ago
immibisveverak: all depends on the project. at my workplace we have a lot of C code that would be greatly improved by the use of exceptions
n2Kamilion, stripboard <3
immibisbecause it would greatly minimize the amount of error checking code
n2immibis, no exceptions in C
kmcerror handling in C is such a shitshow
Kamilionand yeah, they do
n2and you know what
Kamilionphp -r 'var_dump("61529519452809720693702583126814" == "61529519452809720000000000000000");'
immibis(not microcontroller related)
Kamilionbool(true)
kmcand is responsible for so many vulnerabilities
n2I prefer that to the Java situation
immibisn2: we have the ability to compile C++
n2where exceptions is used as control flow
kmcthere are like 8 different conventions for signalling errors in C
immibisn2: exceptions are a kind of control flow by definition
n2There is a sane middle ground, of course
n2immibis, yes, but they should be used for, well, exceptions
kmcmost of them can't prevent you from silently ignoring the erro
n2not regular ol' return stuff
Kamilionjust throw sigwinch and redraw everything
Kamilionit'll be allright
immibisn2: such as?
n2PHP has the funniest way to ignore/silence errors
n2@
Kamilion</sarcasm>
Kamilionn2: @ECHO OFF
n2immibis, plenty of places in the EE API
n2as well as Android
immibisn2: no, the funnest way is when your free shared web host disables error reporting and doesn't tell you
kmcKamilion: my thought too
veverakimmibis: I have problem that I have some knowledge of exception handlings means
Kamilionn2: command.com and cmd.exe also use @ to supress
veverakimmibis: in the code generated
veverakimmibis: and I don't like it for performance critical stuff
veverakwhich is only thing I do in C++
immibisveverak: generally it's faster in the case where the exception is not thrown
immibisat least for the exception itself.
veverakI have the luck that I am working in a mechanism, where entire system is made of applications that communicate with each other over network
veverakit is easy to isolate performance critical stuff into separate C++ codebase
veverakand use python for everything else
immibisveverak: nah, do everything in python and use more cloud servers
n2Kamilion, yeah, in PHP you can do it on a call-by-call basis
immibisscale horizontally
immibisit's the new fad
n2@somethinghorrible();
veverakimmibis: well
veverakhard to do with robot
veverak:)
n2ACTION is happy to never do any PHP anymore
veverakand Rpi3 has the property, that a lot of starts to be "performance critical"
immibisyour robot is communicating with itself over a network? i guess that's how CANbus etc work. (is that the correct way to capitalize CANbus or am I mis-remembering things?)
Kamilionwhat is it about Arduino's wiring libraries that allows me to write code without worrying a whole lot about malloc?
Kamilionis it just C++ classes behind the scenes?
kmcyes
kmcArduino is C++
immibiswhich "wiring libraries"?
kmcand also most arduino style code doesn't need dynamic allocation at all?
Kamilionwiring.h, the core library of arduino.
veverakimmibis: the software in the robot is collection of programs communicating over network
immibiswell none of that actually needs dynamic allocation
kmcwhen you create C++ objects in locals or globals/statics, there is no malloc involved
veverakimmibis: and yeah, I sometimes use it in a way, that some parts of it are running on my laptop over network
n2Kamilion, malloc exists
immibisdoes arduino even have malloc?
Kamilionpart of the generated executable image?
n2but most things are actually just... yknow
n2statically allocated, global variables
kmcI don't think I've ever actually used malloc or new in arduino
n2immibis, yes.
Kamilionkmc: same here, that's what I meant.
veverakmalloc should not be used in arduino
kmcwonder what allocator they use
veverakever
veverak:)
veverakbut it may happen, true
kmcavr-libc I guess
Kamilionbut why is that?
n2But the proper way is to statically allocate a buffer size, and such
immibisACTION wishes he had an actual oscilloscope to measure things like impulse response
immibisKamilion: low amount of available memory
n2Kamilion, it has no memory protection; it has very limited memory
veverakimmibis: ros.org is the project
n2and...
n2malloc can't guarantee allocations properly
n2because of the resource constrained environment
veverakalso
n2malloc works on platforms where you have a lot of heap
veverakwhy to malloc
veverakwhen you dont need to?
veverak:)
KamilionThat seems like a copout answer
kmconce you introduce dynamic allocation it's very hard to prove your system will never run out of RAM
Kamilionah
n2Kamilion, you can do it. It's just slow.
n2Also, no mem protection - malloc may give you an adress that'll overflow
Kamilionso they just statically allocate everything in the linker or executable code image?
n2and start to overwrite other stuff
n2Kamilion, yes.
n2Look in the class files - lots of stuff is just static allocations
Kamilioninstead of doing it during runtime. Okay, that makes a lot more sense.
kmcin C++ heap allocation is not the default and it's made explicit
n2that's why the "variables" sections inflate that much when you include OLED or LCD stuff
kmcthough Rust takes this further
KamilionI've been avoiding AVRs for a while
KamilionSTM32s and xtensa, most recently.
n2AVR, PIC, it's all the same
KamilionARM cortex M0, thumb.
kmclots of choice of good software for ARM :)
Kamilionand some whacko GCC+newlib for xtensa
Kamilionbut it works
kmcwthich xtensa chip do you have? esp?
Kamilionseveral.
n2ACTION is a big fan of the ESP-32
KamilionAtheros AR6302s, ESP32s, broadcom BCM92070s
Kamilionit's all over if you look hard enough
Kamilionespressif's gcc+newlib for xtensa seems to work for most of the variants out there
Kamilionnewlib's the only chunk of code they don't have open though, and it bugs me to some small degree
n2ESP-IDF is a beautiful set of code
Kamilionmenuconfig <3
n2with excellent peripheral support
Kamilionsuprised you're not in #esp32
n2I seldom go to such product specific channels
n2i'm not a fanboy
n2:P
Kamilionoh, so you were not aware that three or four of the espressif team are there?
n2Obviously not
lembronhi, by chance anyone know what sorta reliable sample rate i can pull on the AnalogIn of a esp8266?
Kamilionit's actually really nice being able to talk to the designers of the chip I'm using.
KamilionI don't know of any other vendor I can do that with, honestly
n2lembron, 20KHz at the very most
n2usually around 2.5KHz
n2depends on the interface code used in your libraries
Kamilionlembron: the ADCs are one of the worst features of the ESPs... they're good enough to check battery voltage, but I wouldn't trust them with anything more than that
n2Even a simple ADC0802 would do much much better
Kamilionthey do very good digital IO at up to and past 80Mhz though.
Johnsenbesides clock speed and wifi esp is a crap mcu :p
Kamilionso as n2 suggest, mating it with a proper ADC isn't too terrible.
n2Even a super cheap old ADC
n2can be interfaced beautifully and give good results
n2That applies the other way too - DACs
KamilionJohnsen: what else does i2s over 50Mhz?
Kamilionmost of the STM32 line in the same price range can't exceed 36Mhz
n2i2s at that speed is a bit of a niche thing though
lembronhm then i guess im using the wrong methodic or something... im using just a analogRead(IN_ANALOG) in a loop, delay(10) seems okay, but any lower starts to give me "strange numbers"
lembroni just need to "listen for something on the wire" - dont care about the actual data or values
Kamilionn2: the i2s peripheral can do a lot more than just specification i2s; it's also what you use to bitbang ws2812 via DMA, for instance.
Johnsenthat doesnt make much sense, i thought analogread was blocking
lembronis there better? -- im tapping into a speaker output of a doorbell...
Kamilionit can be used to do up to 8 independant high speed serial links when the pinmux is set to map all of them out
Johnsenare you an esp salesperson?
Kamilionif I could sell extra sensory perception, do you think I'd be sitting around chatting on IRC all day?
Kamilionor do you mean espressif? No, but I'd love to work for them.
Kamilioni don't want to live in china though.
KamilionI will, however say, I am way too big of a sprite_tm fanboy.
Kamilionever since http://spritesmods.com/?art=hddhack&page=5
Johnsenand annoying
KamilionDid you just call me annoying to my face?
Johnseni did it to help you p:
Kamilion... Help.. me?
KamilionDude, I've been on IRC for twenty years, I'm a lost cause
Johnsenyou know, like when someone stinks and noone tells them, they'll never know :p
enyc=)
Kamilionhey, I stink.
KamilionI also know.
KamilionI don't care either.
KamilionAlso -- thanks for having a set of balls big enough to tell someone what you thought. It's rare; and I think people should be more honest.
KamilionAs such; I shall now be not-annoying.
Johnsennah :p i just dont like esp too much :p and i hate ppl having a different opinion from me ;)
Johnsenio hate when ppl have, i dont hate the ppl
Johnseni'm trying to use esp with nosdk8266 but i dont want all the mess coming with it
Johnsenor the guessing because its so undocumented
Kamilionhonestly, I skipped the 8266, there's never going to be solid documentation for it.
Kamilionit's a legacy design anyway
Johnsenall i want to do is run 6502 emulation on it without wifi and tcp taking all my ram away sincez i dont need wifi or tcp
Kamilionhuh, odd. that works pretty well on the ESP32.
Johnsennosdk does that, but its completely unclear how to use the esps peripherals with it
Kamilionyou actually have to explicitly reach out and start the wifi
Kamilionthen maybe look at something other than nosdk, like, something WITH and sdk?
Kamilion*an
JohnsenCuby96_:
Johnsenhas a question but he's scared to ask it publmicly
Cuby96_i asked already :D
Johnsenbecause he is not experienced yet
Johnsenah ok
Cuby96_xD
Kamilionoh, but 96kb of ram is probably gonna be cramped.
Kamilionlike, one of the reasons I don't use the 8266 is because it can't really do TLS.
Johnsennosdk8266 is a bit of an sdk :p
Kamilionit has enough memory to download the certificate and verify it; but it has to fall back to plaintext beyond that -- no AES.
Johnsenits just a weird name
Cuby96_its about a mcp23017 idk what the ports are to communicate with it nor i found a reasonable tutorial how i can set the register to a specific value
Johnsenthat sounds unlikely
Kamilionesp32's esp-idf on the other hand, includes mbedtls and nghttp2
Johnsenthe datasheet should have alml those details
Kamilionand cjson as well.
Cuby96_i use python and a raspberry but somehow idk how to communicate with the chip
Cuby96_it shows up on 0x20 so the chips "online" but idk how the heck to communicate with that thing :D
Johnsenme neither tbh i dont use python and rpi, but i'm sure the datyasheet has all the info for the SPI information and registers etc
Johnsenso basically its up to you to turn the spi info into pything code that sends spi data
Johnsenor up to google
KamilionCuby96_: hold on, I found a decent video on shift registers not too long ago.
Cuby96_ok thx would be nice at least a tutorial how i can use that thing cause the code i make by myself
JohnsenKamilion: ye, the thing is that i dont need all these things, or esp32, my idea was using the esp for nonconnected stuff, just for the fact that it has enough ram and can do up to 320 or a bit more Mhz, and that i already have them so i dont have to buy other stuff
Johnsensome guy got z80 with cp/m 2.2 running on an esp, having a whole 64k free ram because he skipped wifi
KamilionJohnsen: I just use mine as a faster arduino/maple clone.
Johnseni wanna do the same with 6502 core :p
Kamilionah.
Cuby96_Kamilion: just write it here if you got it cause i head to lunch ttyl
Johnsenanyway i'll find out i can just steal his z80 code
Johnsenmcp is not a shift register afaik, its a spi or i2c I/O expander
KamilionCuby96_: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1SzTGZ2l1c
Johnsen:p
Johnsensuch julian!
Kamilionit should be visual enough to get him to understand HOW a shift register is doing it's thing though
Johnseni think the coding is the issue
Johnsenyesterday he was saying he can't get it to work with a max7219 either
Johnsenwhich is not a complicated ic
Kamilionlooking through my history trying to find the other video I had been watching a few days ago, but youtube's not showing my whole history again
Kamilionhttps://learn.adafruit.com/adafruit-arduino-lesson-4-eight-leds/the-74hc595-shift-register
Johnsenafaik he's trying multiple methods to get his 7seg display working, while personally i would just have stuck to the max7219 and actually troubleshooted why it's not working
Kamilionoh.
Johnsenbut i dont use raspberry pies and python to control its outputs, so i wouldn't know
Kamilionwhat about odroids, chipclips and SPI roms?
KamilionSPI flashroms are my nemesis, it seems
Kamilionoh, right, I was supposed to shut up and stop being annoying.
Johnsenno idea
Johnseni used 8MB spi flash before without much issues
KamilionACTION tells ZNC to detach
Johnsenanyway whatever works on your arduino ;)
Cuby96_Kamilion: so i watched the link u sent so the mcp23017 works the same as that 74HC595?
immibisno it does not
Cuby96_immibis: do u know how to work with a mcp23017 using i2c?
immibisno, but the datasheet probably tells you
immibisdo you have a more specific question or is it just "i have no clue, tell me everything"?
Cuby96_more specific, i know how i can use python to write data on specific ports but i am not sure what ports i need to use to control the GPA0-7 and GPB0-7 pins
Cuby96_i want to check if i can turn my leds on for testing purposes and to get to know the i2c library from python so i can write codes
Cuby96_and all the tutorials i found use examples but didnt show exactly or explain which port is for those 16 I/0 pinks
immibiswhat's a port?
Cuby96_well the pins from my mcp23017 the i/o pins
Cuby96_idk how to address them properly cause i dont find a proper doc which tells me what the specific address does
Cuby96_concerning the docs of the mcp23017
immibiswhat's an address?
immibis(there are different kinds of addresses and i'm not sure which one you're talking about)
Cuby96_both data address and the pin address
immibisi don't know what those are
immibisthe mcp23017 datasheet tells me that if the BANK setting is set to 0 (which is the default) then you're probably interested in the MCP23017 register addresses 0x00 (IODIRA), 0x01 (IODIRB), 0x12 (GPIOA) and 0x13 (GPIOB)
immibisthere's one set of registers for each port; the IODIR registers have one bit for each pin in that port that says whether it's an input or output; the GPIO registers have the actual values
damorgueanyone in here consider themself good with amplifers and hifi circuits?
password4i consider it good if I avoid them
password4damorgue, what do you want to know?
archivistdefine good, suitable for RR or an audiophool
damorguenah, just enough to help me fix a problem
damorgueI bought a broken arcam amplifier about a year ago that I managed to fix back then
damorguereplaced mosfets and some fusible resistors basically
damorgueIt has worked since then, and still do
damorguehowever, I have noticed an issue that the amplifier fails when the input gets to high
password4cool
password4fails?
archivistdistortion or what
damorgueso lets say I feed it with a source that is at low volyme, aka lower voltage, and crank the amp up
damorguethen i works fine
damorguebut the higher the source, the more distortion, and if it reaches line-level in, then it cuts out completely
password4well how does it fail , what is the symptoms
password4ah
password4hmmm
joe_zdamorgue, I saw this issue with an amp that had JFET input stages
archivistcuts out, both channels of stereo?
damorgueso, I have for the past year driven it with the source at a lower level without thinking about it, and the arcam amp at like 70% volume
damorguemostly left channel
joe_zone of the voltage rails for the preamp was gone, causing the JFETs in the input stages to forward bias
password4did you replace caps on the powersupply?
joe_zthen the protection would kick in
damorguenope, If I remember correctly, when I bought it one channel was dead, and had likely been shorted out
password4maybe measure your voltage rails?
damorgueso I replaced two mosfets for that channel, and also switched the other to match, along with 2 fusible resistors
joe_zverifying power rails is a good place to start
damorgueall caps looked fine
damorgueso assuming same volume out to speakers: high in and low amplification= distortion and eventually cuts out; low level in and high amplification= works fine
damorgueJFETs should be some solid state components, right?
joe_zdamorgue, yeah
joe_zJFETs aren't too common though
damorgueI think the only packages that fit that description inside are the mosfets
joe_zdoes it seem like the amp is entering some sort of protection mode?
damorgueI just opened it up this morning, resoldered and checked for bad joints, and it is currently hooked up and palying without the top cover
damorguemaybe, I guess it can detect the distortion and irregularity
joe_zdo schematics exist?
damorgueyes, at least a year ago I managed to find them
damorguehang on
password4hah , would be funny if you had a dry joint
damorgueI wouldn't rule out a crack somewhere
damorgueit is very old, so the pcb isn't the best either
password4meh , am i a cheapass for not wanting to pay $4 for a 3mm drillbit
damorguethe reason for palying with lid open atm was to blast some cooling spray at different places and see what happens
damorguepassword4, ebay and wait a bit longer?
password4eh
password4i guess
password4but i do't want to wait that long
password4shipping here is really slow
password4realllllllly slow
password4reaaaaaaalllllly slooooww
password4like I'm wondering if my packages from uly will still arrive
bounceyes, yes you are a cheapass. go buy from your local non-chain hardware store already, you impatient cheapass.
damorguehttps://www.docdroid.net/wwY2rQH/cambridge-arcam-alpha-9-service-manual.pdf
damorgueuploaded the service manual I still had saved
damorgueOnly reason I was able to fix it originally was because of it, it has schematics and specs for every component
joe_zdamorgue, regardless of the symptoms though, checking voltage rails as a start is never a bad idea
password4bounce i visited two stores today
joe_zthere can be lots of rails in amps, and they all need to be in proper range
password4only bought 50mmx5mmx3000mm flat bar
password4gonna make a bigger versionof this : http://41.146.61.152/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=44&sid=376a06cc7a73d3b3a15e6435545a010d
damorgueI just think that the symptoms are so unique that I should be able to figure out what is wrong based on it
password4youd be surprised
joe_zdamorgue, troubleshooting this kind of thing does rely on certain assumptions...
joe_znamely that voltages are correct :D
damorgueamp has trouble amplifying a source at a bit higher voltage, so I think the issues hould be somewhere in the preamp stage
password4the more things you verify and test the closer you will get to solving
damorgueIf I think about it, the response of the symptoms is instant when input level changes, so It shouldn't be temperature related
password4i just saw yesterday where a guy measured an obviously broken circuit , got like 10k resistance at output
password4turned it on for a few seconds and the resistance suddenly became 47R
damorgueit has an old mechanical relay, so when it is turned on it takes like 5 seconds until it clicks, the led becomes green instead of red and it starts outputting
damorgueI would have imagined a protextion circuit to give the same click
damorgueit just distorts and cuts out without a protecting relay of some sort clicking
damorguebut yeah, I'll check voltages
joe_zdamorgue, bypass the tone control section, rule it out
joe_zlooks like there's a switch to do it
joe_zpast that, there is a TL072 - JFET op amp
damorgueyes, already have
joe_zif you have bad +/-15V rail to the TL072, you're going to have forward biased JFETs in that TL072
joe_zsmall enough signal, and things might just barely work
joe_zJFET inputs tend to act a bit weird if you exceed Vcc
joe_zthe output can go full Vcc or full Vss depending on which input
damorgueso measure between TP6 to ground
damorgueand TP7 to ground?
joe_zI can't verify those test points because I can't find them, but you should be measuring the rails relative to ground
damorguewhile unit is on, but it doesn't have to play or have speakers connected, since those are constant driving voltages and not related to signal at that point, correct?
damorgueI just read TP6 and 7 from the manual
damorgue2nd page
joe_zyeah, it just has to be on
joe_zno input signal is fine
joe_zthey should be roughly +/-15V
kcawCAW !
joe_zif they're close, they're probably not the issue
joe_z(but if they're outside any listed specs in the manual, then it's still something to look into)
password4yo kcaw
password4scope the rails too
kcawIt is a good day to cut up some oak
password4sometimes the voltage looks stable but is jumping up and down
password4wathca doing with oak?
damorgueso all the voltages list one the second page of the manual is relative to chassis ground?
damorgueI don't have a oscilloscope or anything, just a regular multimeter unfortunately
password4oh well
joe_zdamorgue, yeah, relative to ground
damorguejust curious, I am not that good with electronics
damorgueis there a difference between 0 and ground in this case?
damorguechassis ground should be fine, right?
password4verify
password4:D
password4in most cases it wold be the same , but sometimes the chassis ground is isolated
password4or the signal ground is floaitng
damorgueI remember a friend once tried to explain the difference between floating 0 and ground and whatever and how they might differ
password4YESSS
password4ACTION being a cheapass turned out good
password4i had a backup 3mm drillbit
intranickyoura bitch
password4:D
password4i just wish i had a drill press
password4or atleast another battery pack for drill
password4driling 40 10mm holes through 5mm of material takes a lot of power
password4well energy
password4if i had a drill press it would just be 4 10mm holes through 50mm of material
password4but now i have to drill through each plate one at a time
password4else my holes are not parallel
traumapassword4: be thankful it's not NiCd.
damorguejoe_z, I was hoping to find some exposed pads on the pcb with printed labels
damorgueI can't find TP6 and TP7, but there is a connector called sk201N
damorgueon the fifth to last page of the document, it is on the left
damorgueI should be able to measure on it, right?
joe_zthat should work
damorgueand since it is symmetrical, I dont have to figure out which pin is 1 and 8
damorgueIf i meassure from the outer-most one to the second outer most one, I should get either +15 or -15
damorguepin 2 and 7 are grund
joe_zyeah
damorguemkay, brb
damorgue14,7 and 14,8 ish, but I didn't want to accidentally slip with the probe and short them, so I didn't let the readin stabilise
joe_zOK, looks like you're screwed
damorgueonly a quick glance, but it seemed to not be far off at least
joe_znow you need a scope
damorgueto check for temporary fluctuations?
joe_zyou need to trace the signal path through the amp
damorgueso by your theory, thos should have been higher than 15?
joe_zfind out where it turns to shit
joe_zby my theory, they would have been lower than 15
damorguemuch lower?
joe_zyes
joe_zI had a sansui with JFET inputs in the preamp stage
damorgueokay, what if I measure them when playing with a higher level in?
joe_z+/-25V supply rails were like 0 and 17
joe_z0 and -17
damorguewhen I get the distortion, maybe the load makes the 15v drop?
joe_zdamorgue, it wouldn't match with my theory, but if something happened at least it's more information
damorguehmm, I didn't really check polarity just now
damorguebut I guess if that was wrong it would cause bigger problems
DocScrutinizer05damorgue: no, joe_z meant 14.7 is OK and thus you are screwed since error is elsewhere
damorguenono, I got that
damorgueI just don't have an oscilloscope or the knowledge to use one for this
damorgueIf only all the testing points that are numbered in the manual would be easy to find
damorgueat least I could check all of those
joe_zdamorgue, are there preamp outputs on the amp?
damorguesurely, they have designed the service manual to cover all common problems
damorgueyes
DocScrutinizer05then check preamp and power amp separately
damorgueah, I could test running those to another amp and see if they cut out to rule the power amp stage
damorguesmart
joe_zyeah, run the preamp out to another device to check the signal
DocScrutinizer05and feed a signal to poweramp input
DocScrutinizer05a known good
joe_zkeeping in mind the signal might be a bit hot for your typical consumer audio device
joe_zand yes, also signal to power amp in
joe_zit seems that maybe you have a switch to disable the internal preamp on the back, to put your own in?
DocScrutinizer05there are mysterious "10mm bridge"#
damorguethe amp can be used as a power amp only by switching that yes, but it also has a preamp out
DocScrutinizer05lots of them
damorgueI happen to have boththe arcam alpha 9 and 9p, where the 9p is the power amp only version
DocScrutinizer05I thought they may be "jumpers" across two RCA/cinch
DocScrutinizer05ACTION glares at mute circuitry
n2ahhh
n2I like when data sheets are conservative
n2this 34063 operates with a Vin from 3V and up
DocScrutinizer05Q12,13,14,121
n2it's currently going happily with a Vin of 2.02
n2ACTION is building a flashlight ;-P
DocScrutinizer05n2: impact is on other specs usually
n2DocScrutinizer05, certainly.
DocScrutinizer05e.g. temperature range et al
n2The output voltage is drooping
n2but it's reached steady state
damorguen2, probably needs 3V to ensure functionality in its entire temp range and with maximum tolerances on all other specs?
n2maintaining the output current correctly
phinxyAre there native desktop programs like falstrad circuitjs
joe_zn2, probably your definition of 'working' differs from the datasheet :)
DocScrutinizer05yeaj output voltage/swing for sure
n2yup
joe_zphinxy, just douwnload the falstad one?
n2My point is, the data sheet specifies " operation from 3.0 to 40V input"
n2not "correct opeation"
damorgueDocScrutinizer05, what did you mean by Q12, 13 etc?
DocScrutinizer05yes, also the Q1xx twins
n2Anyway, it's regulating fine.
n2Not at the desired voltage, but it's not rippling etc.
n2It's managing to extract about a watt from two near-discharged AA batteries, and put it into a power LED module
DocScrutinizer05damorgue: sorry, I meant the transistors of mute / click-prot that are Q12 Q112, Q13 Q113 etc
n2I'd expect that with that low input voltage, the efficiency would be really low
n2but it's actually >85%
n2That's what's surprising
damorgueQ1, Q2 and A101 and A102 were the one s that replaced about a year ago for the record
damorgueQ101 and Q102*
n2meh, might want to upgrade to 3 cells...
V7There are 11 kinds of people: Those who know binary, those who don't, and those who know Gray code.
n2Peh
n2heh
n2there are 2 kinds of people. Those who know binary, those who don't, and those who know ternary
V7n1 ;)
n2V7, i had to
n2:D
joe_zthere are 0 kinds of people actually
joe_zI don't believe in people
joe_zI think the rest of you are also just AIs
V7I'm not AI
intranicki am
damorgueSo if I am a figment of your imagination joe_z, you must be truly weird
joe_zyep, you're all just AI's doomed to sit around on IRC all day long, and pretend you do stuff in 'the real world'
joe_zwhatever that is
damorguebots that google random spec sheets and pretends to have problems with them
joe_zI've never seen it, so it can't exist, right?
p0g0try the denialists... I see it plainly, but it does not exist.
V7yup joe_z, but you're getting our signals which we're sending to you through our cables
joe_z</sarcasm>
joe_zACTION should do this homework...
python476I am organic stupiditance, don't insult me
V7These signals physically exist
damorgueimagine that you are pressing a buton that leads to a tiny little current-spike, and through a long chain of reactions ends up as a few tiny voltage spikes on my screen across the world
V7here you go
damorgueI am controlling voltage everywhere in the world right now
V7We're ^
damorguesee, I just made your display change
damorgueboom, did it again
damorgueI AM GOD
V7^^
damorgue:)
joe_zI can alter the electric field on the far end of the galaxy if I wanted to
joe_zwell, assuming there aren't any black holes in the way
joe_zhmm, I suppose even then, because I could curve the light around it
V7I heard somewhere that our mass ( each object ) affect ANY other object even 1000000KM round, cause of infinite gravity law
kcawAs an American, I deny that denial of reality effects reality.
p0g0vote much?
V7So you're controlling mass everywhere too
joe_zV7, but how does that factor into the earth being flat?
kcawI have run superprecincts and vote
V7hmm ^^ interesting
damorguehow the hell do I find the TPX points
DocScrutinizer05damorgue: forget my comment above, the stuff around Q12, Q13 etc is bias control, not anti-click
damorguewhy would they number and list them
p0g0controlling the masses suggests that they don't get to vote.
DocScrutinizer05damorgue: is the error on both R and L channel?
p0g0ACTION is a bit cranky...l8r all
damorgueis it really c"ontrolling" the masses if you can't affect the effect you have on them?
kcawI did my best to ensure that all votes were done correctly and counted
damorgueI noticed it only on left
kcawbut I have no visibity into what happens above my level
damorguepretty much only left
damorgueIt might be on right to but that it cuts out later
WsxHey i have a c40a breaker that keeps tripping even tho there are a 25a and 20a breakers in line with it. I'm wondering what c in front of 40a means.
damorgueWhich is why i tried inspecting and resoldering a bunch of joints along the left signal path
kcawBTW, everyone knows the earth can't be flat when it is hollow
WsxI should be able to Google it but Google just doesn't tell me.
damorgueDocScrutinizer05, so that should rule out the power supply, since it powers both channels, right?
damorgueDocScrutinizer05, assuming right channel works perfectly (I haven't tested whether it too cuts out but is just more resistant than the left channelö)
damorgueI try switching channels on input source and speakers and see if the right speaker is the one that cuts out then
DocScrutinizer05damorgue: right, it rules out all PSU stuff
WsxOk i got it there are usually b c d breakers with c to have medium sensitivity
joe_zWsx, could be related to 'slow blow' and whatnot
joe_zah, you found it
joe_zhttps://thegrid.rexel.com/en-us/product_faqs/f/forum/757/what-is-the-difference-between-type-b-c-and-d-miniature-circuit-breakers
joe_zso basically your 40A breaker is faster than the other two
WsxYeah the damn thing it's in the electrical company 's meter otherwise i would had got rid of it
joe_z40A service?
joe_zthat sucks
WsxWhat no it should be slower
joe_zWsx, faster would make it trip first, and that's what happens, right?
WsxYeah electricity is expensive here i rarely use more than 20a
joe_zgas service at least?
joe_zheating/fuel oil?
WsxYeah but should be slower since the other 2 is half it's current (20a)
WsxNope what I'm gonna do with it
WsxI have an electric blanket
joe_zis it small at least?
WsxTho a gf would produce more heat than that
joe_zif we had 40A here, you might accidentally blow the breaker if you run a vacuum while the furnace is going
damorgueargh, now I can't even trigger the issue and don't know whether to be mad or happy
joe_zdamorgue, twiddle the switches and knobs
joe_zput tone control back in. All working fine?
DocScrutinizer05Wsx: either you got a consumer with large inrush current in which case you may xonsider fixing that e.g. by inrush limiter PTC. Or your breaker also detects residual current and trips because some minor leakage to earth
damorgueI am gonna hook it up properly again, currently running it from cheapo mp3 to not risk damaging more expensive stuff
WsxSo yeah I'm thinking it must be defective and i wanna replace it thing is it has to be exactly the same i don't want the electric company to think I'm tampering with their meter and the second problem is i have no way to shut off the current so i have to do it live
DocScrutinizer05Wsx: OR.... your breaker gone defect, not unheard of
joe_zdamorgue, now that I think about it, your symptom doesn't seem possible even
joe_zyou said if you feed it high signal, and turn down the amp you have issues
joe_zfeed low signal, turn up the amp, no issues
joe_zwell the volume control is the first thing the signal comes in to
blighthi guys
DocScrutinizer05Wsx: DO NOT DO LIVE MESSING!!!!
DocScrutinizer05Wsx: when you do an accidental short there, short current will be SEVERAL 100s of Ampere
DocScrutinizer05it will fry you
WsxYeah gonna be a hell of a bang
joe_zso in both cases, you get the same signal into all the active components of the amp damorgue
DocScrutinizer05Wsx: cal your energy provider to fix their shit
DocScrutinizer05or a savvy electrician at least
DocScrutinizer05with the latter, odds are lower to have you receive a note that you need to redo all your wiring
damorguejoe_z, well, it cuts out no matter the amplification level I think and it only depends on the level of the input
DocScrutinizer05that points to preamp very much
damorgueI just happen to decrease amplification of the amp when I increase level in
damorguebut as I said, right now I can't seem to trigger it
damorgueThe different inputs are identical, right?
damorgueCD, AUX and AV are all just switched between with the source selector, but their signal path is the same, right?
joe_zdamorgue, well the signal doesn't reach an active component until *after* the volume control
joe_zso by the time it makes it anywhere it matters, the signal level is all the same
damorguehmm, mkay, I see your point
joe_zwhether it's high input, low gain, or low input, high gain
damorgueI am currently contemplating input selector and cable and conenctor issues
damorgueI will try switching the different inputs
DocScrutinizer05oops actually joe_z is right, volume is the very first passive regulation
damorgueA friend was here yesterday, and he can vouch that we were able to trigger it like clockwork then
joe_zso there's some kinda problem
blightjoe_z: do you have a schematic? because that is not a 100% generic statement imho
damorguelow level input was fine, mid caused distortion and high cut out completly
DocScrutinizer05joe_z: switches going "active"? seen that more than once already
damorguehttps://www.docdroid.net/wwY2rQH/cambridge-arcam-alpha-9-service-manual.pdf#page=15
damorgueI hate it when it is inconsistant
DocScrutinizer05damorgue: ((contemplating input selector and cable and conenctor issues)) yes, exactly. Operate them all and see if you find erratic behavior
damorguefreaking worse than completely broken
_abc_1st electric black cabbie in Londonensis http://www.dailymail.co.uk/money/cars/article-5138921/All-hail-eco-taxi-driven-RAY-MASSEY.html
joe_zDocScrutinizer05, short of creating a point contact transistor, I don't think the switches and pots could be doing something *that* weird
DocScrutinizer05particularly when only pressing them half or slightly, just gently hitting them etc
blightdamorgue: exchange input channels, then speakers, like you were told, and wait until you get some more information from that
_abc_Actually ev taxis make a lot of sense, they can recharge between fares.
joe_zbut a scratchy pot or switch could cause excessive noise on the input, triggering protection circuits
DocScrutinizer05joe_z: actually that's exactly what they do, create nonlinear junctions
joe_zDocScrutinizer05, nonlinear is not active, though
DocScrutinizer05think MOX VDR
_abc_hehe
blightdamorgue: some amps have outputs and inputs for an external equalizer which are usually bridged by pieces of wire or with a normal chinch cable, if that is the case, you can inject a signal there which means that you bypass the preamp of your amp, or you can also exchange the channels there to check if its the preamp or amp
blightbut be careful because those signals are _after_ the volume control, so very sensitive inputs there
blightat least usually they are after volume
blightor am i wrong? somehow that seems stupid
blightwould make more sense to put the equalizer i/o before the volume control in terms of SNR
_abc_http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-5137755/NASA-fires-Voyager-thrusters-dormant-37-years.html respect, push a button after 40 years and the gas cooker fires right up. Perfect.
DocScrutinizer05blight: there's schematics
DocScrutinizer05https://www.docdroid.net/wwY2rQH/cambridge-arcam-alpha-9-service-manual.pdf#page=15
damorgueblight, there is a jumper on the back panel to turn it into a power amp only
blightah ok
damorgueand yes, there is also a preamp out
blighton my yamaha amp also sometimes a channel drops volume and starts distoring which is due to a bad rotary switch on the input selector, but you were also told this i think
damorguefuture plan if I can just trigger the problem again is to separate preamp stage from power amp and test them individually
DocScrutinizer05damorgue: unless you can reproduce, you fight a heissenbug and are doomed. When you can reproduce, connect headphones or another audio line-in to PRE-OUT and check
joe_zdirty pots and switches can still cause all sorts of weird issues
DocScrutinizer05yes, dirt or oxidation on selector swirches is *very* common
DocScrutinizer05often cured by a 50 full operation cycles
joe_zthough *mostly* they just cause signal dropouts/crackling
phinxyWhy is the LED lighting up when voltage sinewave is in the middle and off when it is at top / bottom? http://tinyurl.com/ybjltvh7
DocScrutinizer05same with switches and pots
_abc_http://www.astronautix.com/m/mr-103.html this type of thruster was used. /me studies
joe_zDocScrutinizer05, some contact cleaner can work wonders
DocScrutinizer05though pots usually don't "fix" from operation
DocScrutinizer05contact cleaner often does more harm than good
blightDocScrutinizer05: wow the power amp seems quite sophisticated
DocScrutinizer05it is
damorguejoe_z, I have been advised not to use modern contact cleaners on these ase it might dissolve the carbon print if the pots are old enough
damorgueit was a very high end amp once upon a time
DocScrutinizer05with very nifty quiescent current feedback
joe_zdamorgue, if any contact cleaner disolves the carbon coating, then it was useless contact cleaner
blightone could also check the output transistors on both channels, if one is excessively hot
damorgueI like how when you change the volume on the remote it has a little motor that rotates the physical volume knob too
joe_zbecause that 50% of the use case of contact cleaner
blightbut i would exchange input channels, then speakers, and listen for a while if it stays on the same channel or not
joe_z(the other 50 being switches)
blightthen you don't need to trigger the fault yourself, you just need to listen for some time and it will happen again and you gain some information
damorgueIf I remember correctly from yesterday, we tried switching speakers and input channels around and it seemed to be the amplifiers left channel that cut out always, but I can't confirm right now
blighta thermal camera can sometimes help to identify problems but i guess you dont have one at hand
damorguenope, but I am running it with the case open now
DocScrutinizer05cleaning pots with contact cleaner ususally is a big failwale since you spread ointment across the carbon/cermet path
blightand you can buy some kind of gas in a bottle which comes out cool so you can cool individual components/solder joints to see if one reacts on reduced heat
damorgueIT WAS THE CASE ALL ALONG :)
damorgueI have such cans at home
DocScrutinizer05and a motor pot in a top notch amp I'd not even touch
blightbut you need a lot of luck for this stuff to help damorgue
damorgueI swear to god, if it starts failing again once I screw the lid back on I will get mad
blightyeah it sucks when your amp fails
joe_zI fixed an amp that was broke from the factory once
joe_zthat sansui I was talking about
DocScrutinizer05ACTION feels sad for damorgue for sure going mad soon
joe_zthe cause of the failure was that someone put 39ohm resistors in place of some 3.9 ohm ones
joe_zit was in a voltage regulator, where they basically took constant current either way
joe_zmeaning they burned out after several minutes, probably
DocScrutinizer05damorgue: gently wiggle all input selectors, mute switches and all other mech switch stuff, see if anything causes noise
joe_zlong enough to pass factory QC, but not much more
DocScrutinizer05LOL joe_z
joe_zamp was broken for 40 years until it came to me
joe_zwhy the original owner didn't try to get it replaced under warranty is beyond me
DocScrutinizer05indeed
joe_zthis was the one with JFET inputs
DocScrutinizer05hah
joe_zif you put too big of an input into the thing, with a missing rail like that, you'd make the output go full swing
damorgueso maybe, maybe this is really simple
DocScrutinizer05I know I check *everything* on a defect device --- *except* for incorrect components already mounted
joe_zand this was a pretty sturdy amp
damorguewhen I turn up the input level of some sources enough, I run the volyme pot really low, where the tracks are more worn
joe_zI wonder how many speaker it destroyed before they quit using it, lol
damorgueSince it was completely broken a year ago when I fixed it, I am assuming the worst
joe_zwith any luck, that amp I fixed is nice and low hours
damorguethe lower end of the volume pot is just in terrible shape, that could explain a lot
password4ACTION *yaawwwwnnnnnnnsssss*
DocScrutinizer05yes, that's your problem, get a new pot, nothing else will help
joe_zthe problem is often that you can't find a new pot so easily
damorguethe only thing that would contradict that theory is that I clearly remember yesterday that we could let the pot sit in one position, and turning up the source triggered the issue
DocScrutinizer05yep
joe_zin which case, you either work around the problem, or try to fix the pot
DocScrutinizer05damorgue: that's heissenbug in poor contacts
DocScrutinizer05damorgue: you look at it and it starts or stops failing
DocScrutinizer05moon phase changes and you can't reproduce that issue
joe_z^yep
damorguehmm, so I could add a resistor in series or parallel with the pot to move the range in which I usually oeprate and be fine
damorgue#classy workarounds
archivistover drive causes blocking in some circuits
DocScrutinizer05damn, nifty notch fix
joe_zdamorgue, you said you have the version that is just a power amp?
DocScrutinizer05botch
joe_zdoes that have the volume control?
damorguenope, it has no controls
joe_zOK, no part swapping then
damorgueI have never heard of a scratcy pot causing that type of distortion
damorguejust scratches and pops
joe_zdamorgue, it can happen
damorgueand leaving the pot in one place, but increasing the input
joe_zmy dad's old realistic stereo had dirty pots, and it sounded bad when you turned it up
damorguecould that then increase distortion and eventually cut out
damorgue?
joe_zand stayed bad, even without moving it
joe_zwe thought it was caps, but the rails were smooth as a baby's butt
joe_z(well, within reasonable ripple anyway)
joe_zcleaning the pots with some old color TV tuner cleaner did wonders
joe_znot only did it fix all the issues with crackling and dropouts, but it sounded good at higher volumes again
joe_zbad contacts are a noise source, plain and simple
joe_zand they can be nonlinear as well
DocScrutinizer05damorgue: what you *could* do is completely redesign the thing to make the volume pot a DC voltage divider with variable output voltage that controls a voltage controlled attenuator
DocScrutinizer05that way you can connect L and R pot in parallel to eliminate noise form either
damorguedid I hear overkill?
damorgue:) nah, but I'll consider it I guess
DocScrutinizer05it's less overkill after you found out about cost and effort to get a spare pot
joe_zDocScrutinizer05, and you can filter the output too
DocScrutinizer05joe_z: that's the idea
joe_zthe concern with cheaper voltage controlled attenuation techniques is that they can be pretty nonlinear
joe_zbut it's just a volume control
damorgueIt was a good amp once upon a time, but I bought it broken for $10 along with the working power amp for $50 or something, and probably only worth $100 together today
joe_zso it doesn't need to be perfect
joe_zjust close enough to maintain reasonable control
damorgueI am aiming for a new amp at some point in the near future
DocScrutinizer05ask n2 about voltage controlled attenuators for audio signals ;-)
damorgueJust want to be honest when I sell it and not sell with not knowing what caused the temporary issue at this popint
damorguegot new speakers last week, yaaay
DocScrutinizer05is the volume a slider or rotary pot?
damorguewell, used and not new, but still
damorguerotary
damorguewith motor
theBeardamorgue, yer cutting out fault was almost definately excessive dc offset made-obvious when driven with bigger signal, up the the point where the output/speaker protection circuit would cutout to protect yer speakers from smoking, and i ain't reading everything else between there and here, but hopefully you got closer to where/what causes that to happen when you drive too much into the poor little thing
DocScrutinizer05sealed?
DocScrutinizer05or cheap?
DocScrutinizer05theBear: hardly
damorgueI would rate it fairly sealed
damorguenot expert
DocScrutinizer05theBear: protection cuts out via relay
damorgueit has some felt on the back of the knob on the faceplate to avoid dirt getting in too
phinxyIs the bottom 100Ohm resistor there for a good reason? http://tinyurl.com/yaeo7juv
DocScrutinizer05theBear: and according to service manual you need to power cycle it to reset
phinxywithout it, the amperage doubles, but why not just adjust the base voltage?
DocScrutinizer05because base voltafe doesn'T determine the LED current at all, except "off" or "100% on"
joe_zphinxy, increases linearity, prevents excessive base current
DocScrutinizer05phinxy: you *always* need a series R for LED. Here it's in collector forming a convenient high quality constant current source with the transistor
joe_z^that too
DocScrutinizer05s/collector/emitter/
damorguemkay, additional theory supporting pot issue:
DocScrutinizer05phinxy: check emitter resistor constant current design
damorgueI can't trigger it as easily as we did, and I have turned the pot a lot back and forth over the past day, which might improved the oxide in the pot
damorgueI am gonna pretend like me resoldering a few joints is what fixed it so that I didn't do that in vain
DocScrutinizer05phinxy: the transistor pulls as much current trhough collector (and LEd) until emitter voltage (via R) = base voltage - 0.7V (for Si BJT)
DocScrutinizer05phinxy: plus you don't need a series R in base to avoid excessive base current
phinxyah ok
DocScrutinizer05damorgue: yes, movinf the pot may fix the issue, simply by cleaning away dust on the carbon trace
blightDocScrutinizer05: so long as there is negative feedback
DocScrutinizer05damorgue: move pot another 100 times up and down full range
blight:p
DocScrutinizer05blight: sorry?
phinxyIs it hard to balance the base current to get the transistor to operate as a current limiter?
DocScrutinizer05no
phinxyshoudl be possible with a feedback loop?
DocScrutinizer05you don't even do that, you adjust the base *voltage*
blightthrough the 100 ohm emitter resistor you get a negative feedback on the BE voltage
damorgueany suggestion of contact cleaner in EU?
DocScrutinizer05plain alcohol
damorgueCRC contact cleaner states that it dissolves carbon residues which seems scary to use on old carbon print pots
DocScrutinizer05for pots
DocScrutinizer05but again, cleaning pots makes no sense
DocScrutinizer05unless you disassemble and wipe them clean with a cloth
joe_zDocScrutinizer05, have you ever cleaned a pot?
DocScrutinizer05yes
joe_zit works
damorgueoxide or contaminatns on tracks?
joe_znot always though
DocScrutinizer05cantaminants
damorgueI ahve cleaned plenty of pots in newer equipment with contact cleaner
joe_zthey can be worn, or they can be dirty
n2hmm...
n2drive 150mA directly from an SE-555
damorguesome of them even have a small hole meant to insert cleaning agent into
joe_zif they're worn, you're just screwed
n2it should work
DocScrutinizer05and cleaners of all kind dissolve ointment also in every pot and spread it across the carbon trace
n2ACTION is curious
damorgueit is just that these are so old
joe_zdamorgue, pots haven't changed much in the last 100 years
n2ACTION likes cermet pots
n2unfortunately
n2they are indecently expensive
damorguejoe_z, as far as I know they stopped using old carbon track ones for more modern metal tracks
joe_zdamorgue, nah, they still use carbon
blightpots can hardly be repaired, like rotary switches, one should replace them
n2damorgue, Regular potentiometers use carbon
n2The alternative is cermet (ceramic metal)
n2but cermet potentiometers are clearly labeled as such
joe_zblight, if you can find a suitable replacement, I agree
n2and are really expensive
joe_zoften you can't
DocScrutinizer05plus a lot of so called contact cleaners have protective substances in them that stay on the cleaned object and form a sticky residue that attracts further dirt to stick there - after 6 months the pot is totally defect
joe_zpots aren't exactly standard
blightjoe_z: yeah
blightjust saying
linux_probepots are to cook in
blightyou can put contact cleaner and whatever it will fail sooner rather than later
linux_probeACTION bows
blighti mean sooner or later it will fail again but rather sooner :p
blightlinux_probe: i thought pot was to smoke
joe_zACTION hits linux_probe with a pot
joe_zbet you're wishing you just let them be electronic pots now
blighta big variac is also a kind of pot :p
joe_zthat wouldn't be so bad, but a saucepan to the face...
blightACTION gives joe_z a 10kg variac :D
joe_zblight, I've got one already, thank you
joe_z(probably smaller)
blighti dont have any
joe_zmine got rained on though
joe_zseems OK
blighti always used a lightbulb when powering up old devices :D
linux_probeyeah, but they said pots
linux_probenot 'pot"
joe_zI should have followed that precaution a few times blight
blighti think if you put it into a warm place like 30-70°C for like 1-3 days it should be fine, no, joe_z?
DocScrutinizer05damorgue: your only 3 options (in sequence of trying them) are: give the potentiometer a 100 start2end cycles to brush away dirt. Get a replacement poti. Disassemble the poti and wipe the carbon trace and contact clean or even replace the carbon trace by a new one from a similar poti
joe_zblight, yeah, it was fine when it dried out
joe_zI have pulled lots of wet electronics from the trash
blighthehe
joe_zyou might be surprised by what works afterward
blightonly "saved" a TFT once after it was rained on
blightall other trash i got was dry
joe_zI have the habit of seeing trash, then deciding later to pick it up...
joe_zafter it got rained on
blighthave like 3 x 1GHz Marconis/IFR, a portable 2.7GHz spectrum analyzer, 2 scopes, a few TFTs by now
damorgueor opt4, run souce lower and run amp higher in the pot's range, or opt5, add resistor to permanently move the pots range and decrease the maximum gain until the extra resistor is removed
blight2 digital scopes and 6 analog ones
joe_zat first, I think, nah I don't have space
blight:D
blightbut not everything repaired
joe_zthen I'll think about it, and decide to grab it 'tomorrow' or something
joe_zthen it rains...
blighthehe
damorgueI could drill an extra switch on the rear that just connects an extra resistor as a sort of "negative gain switch"
joe_zthe digital scopes I have seen in the trash here were too big and old for me to justify grabbing
joe_zthere was some 400MHz HP scope out there I think, but it was only 25Msps or something like that
joe_zone of those undersampled ones
joe_zdamorgue, 'negative gain switch' = attenuator
DocScrutinizer05damorgue: yes, or opt #6: make that a voltage controlled electronic attenuator
joe_zgood news is that I have a tek TDS220 anyway, so I have a little digital scope that has enough bandwidth and samples for me
joe_zthen I have the tek 4053 for when I want something with a CRT, like my vector project I did for a class
DocScrutinizer05damorgue: I could provide a circuit for a DIY solution with that, made of an opamp, a LED and three LDRs
joe_zhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xmffm6FP4M0
joe_zhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjyVcyqG0as
joe_zbah, 4053...
joe_zit's a 5103N
damorgueAHA!
joe_zACTION has too many part and model numbers rattling in his head
damorgueright channel is currently out
damorguewoop woop
damorguehate my life
joe_zdamorgue, have you tried different speakers?
Cuby96Hi, _9
DocScrutinizer05damorgue: now gently tap the volume knob!!
damorguedoesn't fix it
DocScrutinizer05turn it a 0.1°
joe_ztry the switches too
damorgueturned it all across its range, no change, exept the left changes volume
joe_zincluding the ones on the back
damorgueactually, I restarted it and the right one didn't come back
DocScrutinizer05yes
DocScrutinizer05try all switches
damorgueso now I will lower input and see what happens
joe_zdamorgue, I have *also* seen weird stuff happen with faulty cables
Cuby96Does someone know how a mcp23017 with python work?
damorgueI have activated the switch that bypasses the tone controlls etc
joe_zhave you tried different cables?
damorgueyes, I tried moving the input channels around, and the left working amp channel then started playing the right channel material ofc, and right channel remained off
damorguejoe_z nope, not yet
DocScrutinizer05that rules out cables
DocScrutinizer05now short/bridge the two pre-out jacks with a cable
DocScrutinizer05to make the signal mono
damorguehang on, still testing a few things
DocScrutinizer05do that *now* before testing other stuff
damorgueIf I turn off source, and increase amp to max I hear the static noise, same in both speakers
Cuby96Or can someone explain me cause i dont get how i can Control the outputs of it
damorgueso power amp stage seems to work the same for both
damorguethe problem is not the same as it was, since now it is the right channel, and I can't reset it
DocScrutinizer05did you check the balance pot? operate it
DocScrutinizer05though in "direct" mode the balance pot is also disabled
Cuby96@doc: do u Know how to control a mcp23017 with python?
DocScrutinizer05Cuby96: sorry, no. since I never looked into it
Cuby96And maybe do u Know how i2c works?
DocScrutinizer05yes
DocScrutinizer05you need to toggle 2 GPIO pins in right sequence
DocScrutinizer05damorgue: short the "power in" jacks with the cable
Cuby96Hm i see, cause idk how to handle that mcp23017 and i dont find a proper Tutorial explaining how it works :/
damorguenew info:
damorgueI was unable to get the right channel working again by changing volume of amp or source, or even turing it off and leaving it off for a minute and turning it back on
damorgueI then tried moving the cables of the source from AV to AUX, and rotating the input selector, and it worked
damorgueI then switches back to AV, move the input selector to av, and now av works too
damorgueAHA!
damorguemore info
damorgueI am now 99% certain the input selector pot is the one that causes most of the problems
damorgueI will try moving it back and forth a bunch of cycles
joe_zthat one is a switch
joe_zcontact cleaner should hopefully fix it
joe_zif it comes to taht
joe_zif working the switch a bunch fixes it, then no need to use contact cleaner
DocScrutinizer05yeah, for switches use a contact cleaner that is meant to CLEAN stuff, not to protect and lunricate it
DocScrutinizer05lubricate even
DocScrutinizer05spray it on a paper and check there are no residues after drying
DocScrutinizer05actually proper contact cleaning involves multiple different types of cleaner spray in sequence
damorgueit is a rotary encoder of some sorts, also motorised
damorguethere is some play on each "source dimple" so to say
DocScrutinizer05first type solves oxides etc, second one cleans out first one
damorgueand wiggling it within that dimble causes crackling
DocScrutinizer05you found it
damorgueIs that the entire issue though?
DocScrutinizer05yes, likely
damorguecould increasing the source or volyme cause it to trigger?
DocScrutinizer05I told ya to wiggle all input selector and other switches, a while back already ;-)
damorguehmm, mayble a cracling could trigger a safety circuit I guess
DocScrutinizer05yes
DocScrutinizer05the oxide on contacts acts like a non-linear component
DocScrutinizer05very random
DocScrutinizer05canging signal level already may change the properties of such oxidized contact
damorguehmm, I am unlikely to do my source switching at the analogue amp side
damorgueconsidering bypassing the source selector
DocScrutinizer05you can bypass that by using AV-OUT LOOP jacks as input
damorgue?
DocScrutinizer05WTF is a A1210?
damorguehall effect switch?
joe_zDocScrutinizer05, switch of some sort
DocScrutinizer05yeah, sw202 - onscure
DocScrutinizer05obscure*
DocScrutinizer05aaah rec selector
DocScrutinizer05for LOOP1-OUT
joe_zdamorgue, like DocScrutinizer05 said, switch the PROC/TAPE2 switch to PROC, and use AV LOOP IN as your input
DocScrutinizer05or use AV LOOP OUT as input
joe_zthat works too
rawtazif you put a TVS/diode in parallell with e.g. a 24V DC solenoid, to handle flyback voltage which afaik can be several hundred volts (or in theory unlimited voltage initially), is it a problem to have e.g. 0.5mm2 cables for e.g. 1 m between the solenoid and the TVS/diode? or will the kickback be handled so quickly that it's not a problem with the current and temperature in the cables?
joe_zrawtaz, that extra inductance can be problematic
joe_zstraight wire inductance I mean
archivistdiode should be close/on the coil
joe_zwhen you shut off the solenoid, it's acting inductive, meaning it will produce a voltage spike to continue the current (at least instantaneously)
joe_zfor the diode to work, you have to allow the current in the diode to ramp up very quickly, ideally infinitely fast
rawtazjoe_z: exactly, and thats why one should use e.g. a diode to shunt it back to the + side
rawtazmakes sense
joe_zthat 1m of wire slows down the ramp in the diode
joe_zbut the current from the solenoid has to go SOMEWHERE
joe_zbefore the diode current has ramped
rawtazjoe_z: but since everything else in the circuit would be many more metres away, dont you think it will be fine anyway
rawtaz?
joe_zthat ends up probably going into your sensitive electronics
solrizeso what's happening in esp32-land over the past couple months? last i heard everything was buggy. is it still?
joe_zor arcing over the solenoid, in that case
password4solrize, for what it is , it wont ever be non bggy
password4but its not that buggy
rawtazjoe_z: but the solenoid would be the only thing connected to the 1 m wire, then behind that (i mean on the other side of the 1m wire, as seen from the solenoid), there would be other things but that's many more metres away
solrizehmm ok
paulrscan you buy good quality tools from ali ? wire cutters
password4you can be up an running in no time
password4paulrs, you can buy decent tools
joe_zrawtaz, actually, you have to count the wires as part of the solenoid
rawtazjoe_z: okay, so you think the impedance in the wire will still be high enough to cause the overvoltage to go elsewhere, e.g. within the coil or something
password4but the utra quality is not there
joe_zI change my mind, put the diode as close to the driver as you can
rawtazjoe_z: yeah, the closest is 1m
paulrshow do you identify good chinese tools ?
joe_zthat will protect you against solenoid and long wires, which can also be bad
rawtazjoe_z: oh, by driver do you mean e.g. the power source?
joe_zyes
password4like you can't buy a yukiwa chuck from aliexpress
joe_zwell, the switching device rawtaz
joe_zyou can throw another on the solenoid too, for good measure
joe_zbut the long wires act as inductors too, so you need protection from them as well
rawtazjoe_z: yeah. i guess i could put a diode both in the 1m-from-the-solenoid AND one on the PSU , for example. better one more than one less than needed :>
joe_zand diodes are pretty cheap, so it's not a big deal
rawtazthey are. im considering a bipolar TVS though because i might need to give the solenoid power as +/- and -/+ depending on some other things
solrizepassword2, do nodemcu and micropython work on the esp32 these days?
DocScrutinizer05rawtaz: what you can do is place the diode next to the switch controlling the solenoid
rawtazDocScrutinizer05: right, and not adding the for good measure one
DocScrutinizer05when you switch high side of solenoid, place a diode from low side to high side next to switch, so the current simply zapers down when switch opens
DocScrutinizer05the whole wiring will not see rapid changes in current flowing through it
solrizethere's some nice boards showing up
solrizehttps://www.banggood.com/Wemos-D1-Esp-Wroom-02-Motherboard-ESP8266-Mini-WiFi-NodeMCU-Module-p-1224577.html has built-in OLED display, li-ion charger, and holder for 18650 li ion cell
DocScrutinizer05the voltage swing on wiring is Vcc + diode_Vfwd
phinxyI have a component that outputs from 0 to VIn voltage depending on lighting level. How can that be correlated to a LED current? One problematic variable is there is only 3.3V when the device requires at least 2.2V.
password4resistors are good at making a voltage into a current generally
phinxyThe issue with a transistor is that I'd like to inverse the function. Ie. when bright, turn LED off.
phinxyThat can be done with a NPN+PNP but then the amplification is making the LED either on or OFF, no in between
phinxypassword4• the voltage from the light sensor cant supply any useful current im afraid
Casperphinxy: opamp, with a reference to a current sense resistor
Casperneed a rail to rail input opamp, and possibly an external transistor to boost the current capability
phinxyI dont have any opamps. I got TL431. I bet they can do the same job as a regular opamp.
phinxyThe TL431 current supply circuit uses a resistor to set current. But that resistor is in line with the current itself
password4phinxy, I'm sure you can amplify it
password4an npn will invert the voltage for you
password4ok , i now need to drill a pattern of 4 holes 10 times , and those holes should match up closely
password4ny suggestions on how i should do this? Ideally I'd use a hole transfer punch or a drill press , i have neither
SpeedEvilHow closely, adn what diameters
SpeedEvila template made from pretty much anything will work quite well
password4SpeedEvil, ideally less than 0.5mm
password410mm diameter on final hole
SpeedEvilA bit of wood ~10-20mm thick willl work fine for that.
password4last time i drilled the first one and used it to transfer the holes
password4or maybe i buy a drill press XD
password4theres possible a second hand one near me for $44
SpeedEvilyou can also drill smaller holes, and carefully enlarge them in the right direction
jaakkosphinxy: what is the output impedance of the component that outputs the lighting level voltage? I have a feeling it might be too high to drive any simple bipolar circuit
password4well what i did last time was drilla 3mm hole and hammer in a pin i had , then i drilled through 5 at a time
password4so the staggered 3mm holes sorta keeps the bit on the right track
password4it worked decently
phinxyjaakkos• I have no clue, the datasheet does not tell. Can you make a guess? http://www.yc-dz.com/productimages/200881715162789623.pdf
phinxyThe test circuit shows 1KOhm between 5V and GND
phinxyThats a low impedance isnt it?
jaakkosseems to be around 1K if .. .yeah
jaakkoswell it's not particularly low :D
password4speedevil what do you think for a drill drill for 45 bucks? No name brand ofc
SpeedEvilA drill drill?
password4drill press , lol
SpeedEvilIt will likely make 10mm holes more accurately than is easy by hand
SpeedEvilCheck the chuck goes up that far though
password4its got a 13mm chuck says the guy
jaakkosphinxy: anyway, this component passes current based on the illum. level
jaakkosphinxy: did you check the "typical application circuit"s
jaakkosbecause the first one appears to be doing pretty much what you want?
phinxyyes and the left one is suited except with 3.3V supply voltage it would shut itself down..
jaakkoswhy is that?
phinxyit sinks current until voltage is under its own required 2.2V
phinxyI have not tested the circuit
jaakkosright
password4meh :(
password4the imgur app is still broken on my phone
jaakkosphinxy: well wouldn't it be possible to come up with Rv and R such that VDD > 2.2V at all times?
jaakkos(and still supply enough led current)
jaakkosbut how to guarantee led shutdown when VDD = 2.2V?
jaakkosmeh, shouldn't have used VDD, it's used in the app. circuit... I mean the voltage over the light sensor device
phinxyI have a battery voltage varying between 9V and 5V, The LED current would vary between 10mA and 20mA for full on brightness.
password4SpeedEvil, this is the drill in question https://i.imgur.com/2XIDC3F.jpg
BohemianHacksmy oscilloscope came!
FauxACTION jealousies at BohemianHacks.
password4hai BohemianHacks
password4thats nice
CasperBohemianHacks: TMI?
BohemianHacksCasper: dont be jelly, all the newest scopes have reproductive organs
archivistpassword4, chinese about £65-70 new here
Casperand usually they are all female...
Casper... actually, both
password4about $80-90 new here
Casperno all female
phinxypassword4• Is this it? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9fyzZ7NGap8
Casperpress drill, a must!
archivistI have one, it has done hundreds of hours work with a wire brush worn a belt out
Caspereven usefull for tapping holes
BohemianHacksCasper: its 2017, quit reinforcing the gender binary. its clearly hexadecimal
password4lol phinxy
Casperremove belt, turn the pulley by hand
Casperthis make so you will most likelly never break those fragile tap...
archivistchuck on mine is not the best
password4what are things to look for when i go inspect?
password4runout , vibratons , chuck movement
archivistdoes it work
Caspertry to do 100x of #4-40 without breaking the fricking tap
password4aparently
password4I'm waiting on the guy to respond
password4what is $4-40?
password4what is #4-40?*
archivistthat one looks older or kept in damper conditions than my garage
archivistamerican thread size
SpeedEvilpassword4: should be fine
SpeedEvilpassword4: tehre is almost nothing that can go wrong on those that will make them worse than hand drilling
SpeedEvilHow much better it is will vary of course
password4well its upto the guy to respnd now
password4well SpeedEvil thanx for the advice , its nice to get a second opinion
bobo1on1hm, I still need a drill press
password4i might have one tomorrow , hoepfully
bobo1on1or maybe I'll buy a cnc machine from aliexpress instead
password4for $40?
password4does magnetic base drills have special chucks?
bobo1on1a drill press here is a lot more expensive
bobo1on1like $100
password4this be a second hand one I might buy
DocScrutinizer05((<phinxy> it sinks current until voltage is under its own required 2.2V)) based on that assumption figure11 left wouldn't work at all, since with Vbe >0.7V the transistor always conducts
gkwhchey guys, is it safe to discharge a motor starter cap with a screw driver touching both leads?
password4it will take a bite out your screw driver
password4but why do you want to do that?
password4those caps don't normally hold chargefor any length of time
gkwhceh i got tingled a bit earlier haha
password4always doublecheck
password4your dmm is your eyes
gkwhcneeds to be discharged first though
gkwhcright?
password4if it has charge
gkwhcyes
DocScrutinizer05use steel wool or alu foil ball
DocScrutinizer05or black antistatic PU foam if you have any
Hooloovo0steel wool is a bad idea since it can light on fire
DocScrutinizer05shorting with screwdriver etc will not only bite a dent into the screwdriver but also may damage the capacitor
Hooloovo0maybe just a big (1K ish? 10K?) resistor across the leads and leave it
jsoftWhen is a typical AA cell useless, at around 1.1V or such ?
password4incandescent light bulbs are ideal to discharge caps
Hooloovo0ah, that's a good idea
DocScrutinizer05yes
password4the regulate their power draw a lot , so as the cap voltage drops its resistance drops too
DocScrutinizer05actually a damp sponge may work fine too
DocScrutinizer05or a LED Duspol
password4or short it to the motor :D
gkwhcis there a way to find out the capacity of a possibly dead capacitor?
DocScrutinizer05no
gkwhchmm
DocScrutinizer05unless you look at the label
gkwhcit holds charge tho, but the single phase motor doesnt start
gkwhcand there arent any labels
DocScrutinizer05those starter caps are pretty much all of one kind
DocScrutinizer05look for any arbitrary similar power device
DocScrutinizer05with a capacitor of same volume
gkwhcDocScrutinizer05: ah like a similar motor size/speed etc?
DocScrutinizer05yes
DocScrutinizer05those devices and their components are all similar, so when you find one with same Watt and Volt, it will likely have a very similar capacitor
gkwhcgotchya
DocScrutinizer05also the capacitor value isn't _that_ critical, as long as it has sufficent voltage rating.
DocScrutinizer05iirc for fridges and the like those caps are 500V~ 50 to 150uF
DocScrutinizer05I might be completely off though, it's like 40 years ago I checked last time
DocScrutinizer05sorry, German, but may be worth a google translate: https://info.elektro-kahlhorn.de/betriebskondensator-vs-anlaufkondensator/
DocScrutinizer05https://www.elektro-kahlhorn.de/anlaufkondensatoren:::25.html https://www.elektro-kahlhorn.de/betriebskondensatoren:::22.html
gkwhccool thanks!
jsoftCant beat some inductor and C SMPS calculations in the morning
jsoftLet's see if all this shit actuallys works though
gkwhcDocScrutinizer05: is nameplate RPMs usually the higher rpm or the lower/min rpm?
DocScrutinizer05of a motor? nominal
gkwhcah
DocScrutinizer05so usually highest
gkwhcDocScrutinizer05: would you happen to be familiar with single phase motors and their connections? on this one i see 2 white lines and 1 blue line going into the capacitor. 1white and 1 blue goto one lead, while the other white goes to the other lead
tpw_rulesis there a way to change the serial number on a clone ftdi chip
tpw_rulesi bought some cheap ones from china and they all show up as 00000000
Casperhmmmm this laptop is fried...
Casperit caught fire...
DocScrutinizer05gkwhc: sorry, that's probably very variable
gkwhci see
jaggztCasper, !!
jaggztthat's the last time i bring my laptop to you
Casperjaggzt: told you to not trust me with laptop
jaggztheh
Casperjaggzt: I show you that before: https://i.imgur.com/vOuhTd5.jpg
jaggztCasper, any child could do that
spludLook at all the different sized screws...
Caspersplud: that one wasn't bad
CasperI opened a sony with 17 different sizes!
Casper... you had to remove the motherboard to replace the hard disk... I'm serious, they put it under the motherboard...
Casperwith no back panel
phinxyIs it possible to remove wire insulation at some point in the middle of the wire? 30awg. Removing insulation, keeping the wire intact
bongofurysure
Bga3Burn insulation
bongofuryget an xacto knife and roll the wire under it
bongofurythen do a lengthwise slit
bongofurythats how I strip all my small wires
spludphinxy, razor around the wire at two point, and cut a lateral between the,
spludA question might be, "why do you need to do this?"
spludIf to take a measurement, a pin works wonders (or any of a number of specialty test clips that have an integral pin or bed)
phinxybodging stuff to a PCB and the less solderjoints, the less accidents
phinxyjoining three things is difficult
phinxysplud• what are thoose test pins with a hook called?
jaggztI usually bend the wire, slice away at one side carefully (I don't like damaging the lead inside), then get a loop of wire exposed so it pokes out the slit, and snip away the insulation safely
jaggztbut it ends up not having "clean" end points (they still have the long slit a bit)
jaggzt(the insulation, I mean)
spludpins with a hook? I'm not picturing what you're referring to.
jaggztthe springy grabby test hook clips
gkwhcanyone familiar with single phase motors? http://efcaviation.com/design/run-capacitor-wiring-diagram.php what happens if the red lines are shorted to the blue lines?
spludtest hooks and mini grabbers are what I see them referred to as.
cheapiegkwhc: Red shorted to blue? As in you're shorting out the capacitor?
cheapie(the run cap, anyway)
gkwhccheapie: yes
cheapieIf I understand how those potential relays work correctly, that'll have the effect of shorting out the start cap too, and it'll just buzz and not start.
gkwhccheapie: hmm my motor runs fine when cap is shorted out
tpw_rulesanybody used the other pins of an FTDI chip for stuff? I'm trying to use an rs input as a button and it's latching on for some reason
gkwhccheapie: but buzzes when one red line is connected to blue line.
Bga3tpw_rules: original ftdi or clone? Clones mimics only for basic functionality
tpw_rulesBga3: it's surely a clone. but on every single input line, i get that it latches on when pressed until the port is re-opened. i don't see how they could get away with that
Bga3If you got ftdi with zerroed id - it's clone
Bga3Ok
Bga3tpw_rules: clones works out of spec and can be used as simple USB uart only
JFK911lol
JFK911if you didn't pay ftdi price i think you got what you paid for
JFK911if you did pay full price, you got robbed :(
tpw_rulesnah i knew they were clones
tpw_rulesit's just weird that only that functionality doesn't work
tpw_rulesand i kind of think it's more my mac getting pissy than the clone being wrong
jsoftWell this MC3406A thing seems to be doing the bizzo
tpw_rulesyeah it works fine on windows. sigh
tpw_rulesi wonder if it's still the clone's fault
Bga3No it's drivers
tpw_rulesit was drivers
tpw_rulesinstalled the latest mac ftdi driver and it works. i bet the default apple one is bad
spludjsoft, buck-boost?
jsoftsplud, boost
splud"doing the bizzo" = working?
jsoftyeah
jsoftNever used them before.
spludEr, actually, I mussed up - I was thinking MC34063
DocScrutinizer05gwthat diagram is totally fuzzy (in any regard), please use other more ppropriate diagrams like the http://www.replicasuper.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/single-phase-hermetic-motors-at-approximately-two-thirds-rated-speed-the-starting-capacitor-part-of-the-circuit-is-disconnected-by-a-start-relay-device-motor-capacitor-wiring-diagram.jpg
DocScrutinizer05or http://www.capacitorguide.com/wp-content/uploads/motor-diagram.png
spludthe MC34063 is a pretty spiffy device, can be used to make a buck, boost, or inverting.
spludDunno how similar your MC3406 is to those.
DocScrutinizer05gkwhc: https://inspectapedia.com/aircond/Capacitor_Starting640-DFs.jpg http://www.burhansresearch.com/general_images/cpstrtrn.gif https://i2.wp.com/www.myhvacperformance.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/AC-BASIC-WIRING-927x1024.jpg
jsoftsplud, pretty much the same thing as far as I can tell
DocScrutinizer05gkwhc: nice one ;-) https://inspectapedia.com/aircond/Capacitor_Starting647-DFs.jpg
DocScrutinizer05gkwhc: now a honestly good one http://www.replicasuper.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/ac-capacitor-wiring-diagram-hard-start-capacitor-wiring-diagram-24-volt-from-thermostat-baldor-motor-capacitor-wiring-diagram-945x728.jpg
spludjsoft, I was thinking of using one in inverter form for creating a split rail for an instrumentation amplifier.
DocScrutinizer05gkwhc: and shorting the run capacitor will probably make the motor overheat and break
bounceanybody up for a game of chip identification? context: laptop that works when charged, but won't charge when on, and only charges very slowly when off. http://oi65.tinypic.com/2mhyjx2.jpg
Bga3splud: isn't it will be too noisy for precision opamp?
jsoftsplud, yeah that would be a goodun eh
jsoftsplud, I am half thinking about putting a linear regulator after the output of this thing
tpw_rulesi remember now why i didn't have the official ftdi driver installed.
jsoftsplud, as I am feeding some.. what are they called
jsoftsplud, some.. load cells.
jsoftsplud, and those output shit which gets amplified lots, and then read with a 24 bit ADC, so I cant be having noise and shit over that.
jsoftsplud, I am thinking a linear reg will smooth it out and eliminate the need for larger filter caps, which means power current used charging them ( this thing is a battery powered gizmo ).
jsoftThats the latest brain fart thought of this morning, anyway.
Bga3bounce: usually it's mosfet. Especially when neighbor pins are shorted. And likely it's same mosfet as bottom one
Bga3Pa38a
bouncewhy that one and not the 4496? as in, why do you think that?
Bga3Or 4496
Bga3Grab schematic
Bga3It's power circuit. R020 here
bouncebeen looking through the maintenance manual but my computer is slow
bounceit's a compaq cq61-430sd we082ea#abh and the pcb says http://oi66.tinypic.com/1gk9xu.jpg
Bga3bounce: try any ne-mos with same pins mapping
Bga3Or deadbugged ne-mos
bounceI wonder if this CQ61-310ED (amd, instead of the intel celery 900 in the other) would have the same power chip on the board.
bouncedeadbugged?
Bga3On wires
Bga3Soldered to pcb pads
bounceah, right. easier to swap?
Bga3Of course
bouncethis'd be my first smd repair job, so. :-)
bouncehow do I figure out the pin mapping on a broken chip? try and trace wires?
Bga3bounce: but you goal is not just replace but find why it fried
bouncegot the thing (was free pickup) with a replacement psu, so I could guess the old psu took that chip with it when it died
Bga3bounce: source and drain are certainly shorted
Bga3But gate can be shorted too
bounce(as in generic hp replacement psu fresh in box complete with the usual papers)
gazelleIs it possible to specify the application of conformal coating on a PCB except on certain contact pads?
Bga3bounce: install tvs diode to power jack to prevent this accident in future
Bga3Tvs and fuse
Bga3Stop. You said that laptop is charging slowly. Source and gate can be opened instead
tawrgazelle: yes
tawrit can be applied with a stencil but it will depend on board house
bounceACTION takes notes. first, see what the pins of the other two are, then guess what this might be. then check which pins are short with each other. (need to dig up the dmm for that)
gazelletawr: what do you mean board house?
tawrwhere you're having the boards made, gazelle ?
tawrthe boardhouse (board mfg) oshpark dirtypcbs etc
gazelletawr: ah okay. Yes, one like those
tawrgazelle: different mfgs have different capabilities :)
bounceACTION looks up tvs. hey, can't that chip be a tvs itself?
tawrif you go to their website, it will tell you what they can do
tawrbtw, most have cnc router capability as well (that's how they route around the board to make panels)
gazelleOkay, I'll ask them. Just wanted to make sure it's a reasonable requirement
Bga3bounce: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transient-voltage-suppression_diode
kmcI saw just now a guy riding a bikeshare bike on the subway platform right by the platform edge
kmcsome people are dummmmmmmmmmmmmmb
tawrgazelle: it depends, it may not be usual
tawrbut they can surely do it
bounceyeah, looking at that "tvs diode as array" picture
tawryou will just have to pay extra more likely
tawrwhat company are you using
tawrill show you their website and what they say about it
gazelletawr: thanks but it's not defined yet
tawrnp gazelle just remember most board houses also can make laser cut SS stencils for solderpaste application
tawrthey have cnc routers for cutting the boards out of the panel and can do milled features on pcbs also, and they can usually do some conformal coating adn stenciling along with solderMASK
bouncebga3: so the AO4496 has three sources, one gate, four drains. the f?a38a I can't readily find a datasheet for, but has the same layout. can't really see what the blown chip has for a layout, though
tawrdamnit shoogz fix your connection
Bga3I see same 1+3 and 4 in shadow
kmcfreenode let's you ban someone with a redirect to another channel
Bga3bounce:
kmcsuch as #fix-your-connection
bounceso that's another mos then, or are there other 8-leggers with that layout?
Bga3Most likely mosfet
bouncethe pa38a could be a fairchild, from the logo, but still no datasheet :/
Bga3bounce: try any mosfet
Bga3V Max 55v
bouncehow do you figure that?
Bga3Typical value
tawrkmc: yeah
bounceokay. input for the thing is 19V, at least that's what the brick is rated for.
tawrlol kmc check out how many bans i've put
Bga3Ao4496 is 30v
Bga3Hm v threshold is quite low
DocScrutinizer05kmc: chanserv eveb allows sheduled bans
DocScrutinizer05though... seems nonsense
bouncebga3: alright. no idea where to source the things, so we'll have to see. think I'm going to open up the other laptop tomorrow for comparison first. anyway, thanks for the help.
filadomei received a lithium 9v that has a micro USB port for charging
bqNeat
JyZyXELfiladome: but i wonder if the ripple from the DC/DC conversion makes in unsuitable for DMM
DocScrutinizer05ok, checked, chanserv akick !T works for autoremoving a ban after expiry
DocScrutinizer05so for "fix your conection" chanserv akick seems the right tool
DocScrutinizer05JyZyXEL: sure it has a boost? 2S would yield an almost 8V which seems within specs for a 9V block
DocScrutinizer05then there are 3.0V(?) LiFePo, ideal for 3S
DocScrutinizer05hmm 3.2V
DocScrutinizer05Working voltage = 3.0 ~ 3.3 V
DocScrutinizer053S 9.0 ~ 9.9V -- ideal
DocScrutinizer05https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nine-volt_battery#Technical_specifications
bobo1on1JyZyXEL: it probably has two cells in series
adicarlook this is kinda a stupid question, but does anyone understand the CTIA style electrical protocol?
adicarlothere are basically 3 switches: vol+, vol-, and "pause" -- the latter will ground the connection between MIC (sleeve) and ground (ring2)
adicarloall well and good, but I don't see any resistance drop when vol+ or vol- are depressed, so I'm a bit confused!
adicarloreading https://source.android.com/devices/accessories/headset/plug-headset-spec I would expect the high impedence of the microphone to drop to < 500 ohm on either vol+ or -
adicarlobut it also stipulates that I positively bias the mic ring to 2.2V through 2.2Kohm -- perhaps that's my issue -- not turning on a diode or something?
bobo1on1maybe it uses a capacitor?
adicarlobobo1on1: explain, what are you thinking?
adicarloso the circuitry to detect vol+/- is looking at the rate of the a cap discharge curve?
adicarloseems like a complicated way to go
adicarloseems to me that there must a voltage divider effect between the bias circuit and the different switch states
adicarlothus, the recieving circuitry could use a couple comparators to determine buttonpush
bobo1on1yes it could be using a fet
bobo1on1or a transistor
adicarlobobo1on1: right, with the correct biasing
bobo1on1yes
adicarloeven simpler
bobo1on1although, when the button is pressed, the bias voltage is gone
bobo1on1so that can't really be it
adicarlowell, no, vol+/- are not just shorts to ground when depressed
adicarlothey are going through 240 ohm and 470 ohm resp
bobo1on1ah
bobo1on1but there's not that much voltage left
adicarlothus I might expect one-tenth or one-fifth of my source voltage -- yes, quite low
bobo1on1not enough to turn on a transistor
adicarlohmm
adicarlowell, enough for my DMMs to detect anyhow, which is all I really need to care about at the momento
adicarlomeh burned my hand with my soldering iron, yet again... !
adicarlostill, for some reason I've been finding a lot of 60s japanese stuff (hifi, test equipment) in the trash, and the raw components they are using are just beautiful
adicarlowhich is good b/c I needed to stock up on chunky resistors and small caps, all fully functional and within spec, crazy
Bga3adicarlo: I always use rubber gloves for soldering. Esd safe, no burns, no direct contact with nasty stuff
Bga3Want to buy Kevlar gloves. Iirc it's more heat resistive and protects from cuts
Drakoniteadicarlo, the trick is, don't hold the iron the way they do in those university promo photos
adicarloDrakonite: heh always a good idea
DrakoniteI didn't think kevlar was that heat resistant ?
adicarloI lose too much tactility when I wear gloves
Flea86asbestos gloves may work better for heat :)
adicarloluckily, it wasn't a bad burn, nor in a bad place
adicarlothe one actiivty I always wear gloves for is gluing!
adicarlogenerally cheap vinyl ones
Flea86nah, new skin growths take care of glue
rawtazBga3: sounds overkill. like wanking off with gloves
rawtazor is it wacking. i dunno.
rawtazBga3: isnt it extremely clumsy to wear gloves when soldering? or do you mean really thin ones?
Bga3Drakonite: " Civilian applications include: high heat resistance uniforms worn by firefighters," https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevlar
adicarloFlea86: it does but it might take a week or so
DrakoniteBga3, I thought that was for the cut/tear resistance, and it was different layers that insulated the heat
DrakoniteACTION shrugs
Flea86gloves for soldering? we're not holding the barrel right? :D
adicarloI have a PES51 soldering iron, which seems like its getting loose between the metal part and the handle... i have to keep shoving it in
Flea86sometimes I wished I had gloves for changing tips on an already hot barrel, but that's about it
adicarloi wonder if there's a decent way to mitigate that or if I just need to get another iron
adicarloFlea86: in that case I use a little cup of water
Flea86to do what?
adicarlocool the tip and the barrel so I can replace tip
Bga3Omg
Flea86nah, I'd rather not crack my gear :)
adicarlosadly a very common chore now that're in the lead-free era
DocScrutinizer05adicarlo: http://neo900.org/stuff/joerg/ECI/
Flea86I find pointy nose pliers with knurled grippers work great for hot tip changes
adicarloFlea86: isn't that what she said?
Flea86adicarlo: Unlikely :/
Drakonitewell, fuck. just managed to stab two of my fingers with this damn connector
adicarlopunctures are painful!
Bga3rawtaz: quite think. Double latex on nylon
Drakoniteadicarlo, especially on my fingers. dunno the root cause but I have high pain sensitivity in my fingers >_<
DocScrutinizer05ooh, CTIA actually does "stupid" R-matrix
Bga3I also wear lab suit
Flea86Drakonite: Don't worry, that will reduce with age
Bga3And bandana
adicarloDocScrutinizer05: that URL isn't coming up btw...
DocScrutinizer05what do you mean "doesn't come up"?
DrakoniteFlea86, I'm in my mid-30s, and so far the opposite has been true. I've been losing feeling in my fingers, except for pain, which is getting worse
Flea86Drakonite: Nowadays, I either just see blood or smell burning ham.. :P
adicarloDocScrutinizer05: HTTP GET ==> wait wait wait
adicarlooof there we go, only took 5m or so
DocScrutinizer05works fine here, load on server is also no issue
Drakonitethis time, it hurt a lot, and I tried to ignore it for a few minutes, but the pain wasn't reducing, so looked down and saw small bits of blood
adicarlomaybe US is now at cyberwar with FR
DocScrutinizer05top - 00:38:11 up 30 days, 13:04, 1 user, load average: 0.02, 0.02, 0.00
DrakoniteI touched the tip of my soldering iron a couple weeks ago. didn't feel much, but left a black spot
DocScrutinizer05FR?
DocScrutinizer05my server is in Germany
adicarloDocScrutinizer05: lol your web admin diagnostic toolkit is kinda limited
adicarlo'uptime' is not generally going to tell you much about how your webserver is performing
DocScrutinizer05I don't see any need for in-depth diagnostics since it loads within 0.05s here
DrakoniteDocScrutinizer05, loads quick here too
adicarloDocScrutinizer05: anyhow you cited that to me, given that's a directory and each click is a 5m proposition, was there something specific you were meaning to show me here?
DocScrutinizer05however Hetzner is known to sometimes have a shitty interconnect to USA
DocScrutinizer05yes, ECI is a wired headset multiputton protocol using a single-wire serial approach, with init
DocScrutinizer05*button*
DocScrutinizer05you don't see any reaction except for the generic "hold" button unless you initialized the headset
adicarloDocScrutinizer05: oh interesting -- is that common in headphone, e.g., apple headphones w/ mic and vol control?
DocScrutinizer05Nokia
adicarloah... pretty sure this is CTIA not ECI
DocScrutinizer05then (assuming it's a AHS/CMTI pinout, not OMTP), you simply connect + of your DMM in resistance probe mode to the base of the 4-pin 3.5 plug of headset, - to the 3rd contact from tip, and then read out the resisitances as seen in https://source.android.com/devices/accessories/headset/plug-headset-spec while pressing buttons
DocScrutinizer05make sure you're not using a $3.86 meter which has 9V test voltage in resistance range
Drakonitehm. horrible freight is giving away free DMMs again. I should come up with an excuse to go get one
ullbekingdoes anybody have a recommendation for where i can get good quality usb cables? i'm in the uk, btw.
adicarloDocScrutinizer05: i find it a little odd to be reading resistance across a biased line though
ullbekingi recently decided on one pragmatic motto, that life is too short for messing about with cheap cables
ullbekingthey just cause more trouble than they are worth
ullbekingpower supplies too, ime
rawtazwhat a joke. Seeeed states that their Grove PIR Motion Sensor has adjustable distance and hold time (under the "Features" section. but if you keep reading, it turns out that to be able to adjust that, you have to solder a couple of pots onto the board.
DocScrutinizer05err you shall not bias that line when probing resistance with a DMM
adicarloullbeking: i guess I'm the opposite, I just dip my toe in the waste stream to find USB cables, folks throw out so many working cables
DocScrutinizer05adicarlo: when you want to probe in-circuit, use voltage range on same two pins
ullbekingadicarlo: sure, but i guess it depends on how much time and space you have. actually, what would solve a lot of issues would be a cable tester.
adicarloright right, yah
adicarloullbeking: pretty much any USB device can act as a cable tester
ullbekingadicarlo: i disagree
Drakoniteullbeking, as much as I hate recommending them, the amazon basics USB cable I have is good quality
adicarlowell it depends on what you're doing of course, but if a device in, I can see it enumerate, the cable is fine
DocScrutinizer05you might see somezhing pretty funny during plugin, like http://neo900.org/stuff/joerg/ECI/scopeshots/ECI_NOT__N900_plugin_for_reference.jpg
adicarloto check for intermittant issues, plug something in, watch it enumerate, and while tailing your syslog (OS details may vary), bend the cable around and see if you can get the device to disconnect
adicarloits really hard to see a commercial testing doing much better than that
adicarlobut, of course, there are different speeds depending on what version of USB you're using, and problems might only manifest at high speeds, although I find that rare in practice
adicarloDocScrutinizer05: hmm, that looks like a clock overlaid on a cap charging curve
DocScrutinizer05it's what a phone does on mic bias during plug in
jsoftMost load cells should work fine with 5v right ?
DocScrutinizer05and yes, there will also be "clock" of the ECI init