bongofuryif you see the Antibuddha on the side of the road, help him.
AntibuddhaWhat material could work well as emp proof container for a small usb thumbdrive? I want to produce 1000 of them to bundle with some device i sell
OdinYggdNo such thing
OdinYggdThick walled metal containers will reduce EMP damage, but will not eliminate it
AntibuddhaWhy cant it be eliminated?
OdinYggdBecause its a nuclear EMP.
bongofuryyou dont have enough mass in a usb drive shell to do it without making it a brick
OdinYggdYou can shield against it and reduce the intensity, but you cannot eliminate it with any practical means
OdinYggdThis is why sensors looking for cosmic rays are built deep within the earth
OdinYggdThey use the mass of the earth itself to shield the sensor devices
AntibuddhaOh :(. So its not feasible even if its like a shoebox size box with just a little space for a usb drive?
Mikeeea shoebox of lead would absolutely shield any modern device from a nuclear explosion's emp/radiation
OdinYggdYou can greatly reduce the influence of an EMP, making your device have a higher survival rate
OdinYggdbut if the nuke explodes in close proximity, its fried no matter what you do
AntibuddhaHow thick would a lead box have to be to shield a small usb thumbdrive, no space for anything else
bongofuryfrom what bomb at what distance
Mikeeealso, why a thumbdrive?
AntibuddhaAh ok, then how thick for mild protection from nuclear emp?
OdinYggdAnswering that is impossible without knowing the radiation flux it must endure, how long it must endure it, and how much damage is allowed
AntibuddhaBecause device i want to shield is the same size
Mikeeethey're one of the worst things you can use for data storage.
Mikeeewhat media does it use?
OdinYggdRadiation hardened electronics are designed to fail predictably, because even with resistant designs and shielded casings they still degrade on exposure
MikeeeNAND flash?
bongofury"mild" means North Korea nukes NYC, and you live in Philadelphia. No lead case needed.
ali1234i bet its a bitcoin wallet
ali1234as if bitcoin will be useful in the nuclear wasteland
AntibuddhaAli1234 yes :)
OdinYggdmake a paper wallet.
OdinYggdand put that in a fireproof safe.
mluhmm... nuclear EMP: don't I just need a really good Faraday cage?
OdinYggdThis will survive a nuclear winter at a far higher rate than any usb device
mluperhaps one that's good enough for RF testing purposes?
Mikeeeflash is the real problem here, why not start with a media that isn't affected nearly as much by emp or radiation
AntibuddhaOdin, what i was hoping was, if a box could be made affordably for this purpose, it could incentive people to buy it, even though as you suggest paper wallet safest
OdinYggdYou will never beat the simple elegance of a properly constructed paper wallet
GoatmanQR code
GoatmanQR code paper wallet
Goatmanvinyl PWM wallet
OdinYggdNow most use cases you could indeed make a lead lined chest to keep a media device in and reduce the data corruption rate on exposure to nuclear EMP
OdinYggdBut you cannot eliminate it.
Mikeeeoptical media would do fine
OdinYggdIf this chest is close to ground zero, it will burn and die you cannot stop it
Mikeeejust protect it from light
OdinYggdIf its on the other side of the US, it'd be fine
OdinYggdNo, optical media isn't
OdinYggdThe aluminum layer corrodes and peels away from the polycarbonate
OdinYggdIve lost many movies to this happening
ali1234ever put a CD in a microwave?
AntibuddhaOk yes i get your point. But consider, if two people made paper wallets, but one had a decent emp box that manages to protect against an emp, then although both have their paper wallets still, one still has a hardware wallet while the other does not
OdinYggdThey must be stored in a climate controlled environment to prevent this degradation
Mikeeewe aren't talking about long term storage here are we?
Mikeeewe're just talking about a nuclear blast
OdinYggdGood news everybody!
OdinYggdA nuclear weapon was fired in anger!
mluI'd personally just buy a steel wastebasket :P
OdinYggdYour money is now worthless! Because we're all gonna die!
OdinYggdIs what would happen tbh
GoatmanI think you’re lying
OdinYggdEven if the nukes themselves don't end the world
mluif the wastebasket isn't enough, I'd have other things to worry about
OdinYggdPeople panicking thinking that the world is ending will destroy society as we know it
OdinYggdbecause they're a bunch of dumb animals
Mikeeeoptical would absolutely survive. Put it in tinfoil bag to protect it from the short term hot air, and assuming it isn't physically destroyed in the process it would be fine
Mikeeeor better yet, put it inside a microwave.
GoatmanHow about eating it
Mikeeeyour body would absolutely shield it from hot air
Mikeeefor quite a long time
OdinYggdYeah but why store bitcoin
Mikeeeso eating it or inserting it anally would work
OdinYggdIn a nuclear war its going to be porn that's worth the most
OdinYggdstockpile that if you're going to try to shield a digital storage device
mlupersonally, if I had some data I really needed to product, I'd just have an encrypted backup somewhere on the other side of the world
AntibuddhaHow harmful can lightning emp be? If very, what thickness should a box be to protect a bitcoin hardware wallet?
OdinYggdcharge people to view it once the violence settles enough to conduct business
OdinYggdLightning EMP is not a major concern for most electronics, barring a direct strike
OdinYggdIn a direct strike all bets are off, while a close proximity strike shielding can be achieved by just a tin box and some surge clamping
ali1234OdinYggd: that's actually genius
MikeeeIt's the year 2201. Nuclear war has taken out most of earth's resources. Money is a thing of the past. A person's worth is determined solely by the nuumber of funny pictures they have saved to their hard drive.
MikeeeI have been preparing for this day my entire life.
AntibuddhaWhat is surge clamping?
GoatmanMikeee, get a tattoo of the bitcoin wallet on your behind
OdinYggdAntibuddha, out of curiousity what price did you buy your bitcoins at
MikeeeAntibuddha as in electrically? Putting an active device across something that prevents it from exceeding a maximum voltage
mluremember: the only reason why bitcoin is worth something is because people say it's worth something
Mikeeelike a zener diode
AntibuddhaO, so a tin can with such a active device could protect against lightning close proximity emp?
OdinYggdNo, the protective devices needed to be included in the electrnics
Mikeeewhy would a tin can need clamping
OdinYggdIts not something you can just strap onto it
AntibuddhaAw ok
ali1234guys, how can i design a bitcoin wallet that would survive being thrown into a volcano?
mlugeneral idea: the EMP gets converted into current that flows around the shielding device
Viper-7mlu: remember: same goes for most "proper" currencies :P
Mikeeegive it to me, ill take care of it
mluwhich is why porn would be so valuable :)
Mikeeeif you want to save something from an emp, just tie every node together.
OdinYggdProvide overvoltage clamping for all nodes of the circuit
mluEMP goes in on one side of the shield, flows as electrical current around the shield, and comes out the other side, (assuming not much is dumped via grounding the device)
OdinYggdThat'll spare you from EMP induced overvoltage damage
OdinYggdHowever, you still are wide open to ionizing radiation damage if in proximity to the blast
Viper-7modern esd protection means thats basically the case for most hardware
OdinYggdbeta particles and neutrons will screw over your hardware
Viper-7an EMP shouldnt harm the phone in your pocket, or even your laptop that wasnt plugged in these days
AntibuddhaOk ty for advice. Im guessing a small emp resistant box not that easy to do for bitcoin wallet since i dont think i can ask manufacturer to add a zener diode
Mikeeemost radiation is stopped by things like walls and even modern glass
mluheh, this is where it's advantageous to have an actual basement :P
OdinYggdtinfoil stops beta, but only great masses of dense materials will stop the neutrons
Viper-7but the mains power network will be boned
ballEquipment may also be harder to operate if your fingers melt.
mluACTION thinks about his underground storage unit next to his parking space
mluthat reinforced concrete is very massive
Viper-7not massive enough :P
OdinYggdDepends on how close to the blast
OdinYggdAnd what kind of device was used- what the neutron and gamma flux is like
OdinYggdalpha and beta are stopped easily enough, but neutron and gamma will still kill you
mlulet's assume far enough that the immediate physical effects don't kill me
Viper-7if the bombs start droppin - im heading west.
Viper-7soo much of australia is just pointless to nuke, coz theres just nothing out there
Mikeeeatomospheric detonation would be different than if it was detonated mid-city too
Goatman OdinYggd, WRONG. Lighter hydrocarbons like parrafin do better at neutron shielding than lead
GoatmanGotta call you out on that one
mluhmm, I better practice my NBC suit procedures, thinking about it
OdinYggdGood to knwo Goatman. I was under the impression that great masses of water, lead, steel, and concrete were required.
OdinYggdThat is very interesting that neutrons can be stopped by candle wax
OdinYggdPlus that'd make the box waterproof
OdinYggdSo a steel case filled with molten wax with the USB stick encapsulated inside.
OdinYggdThat's about as good as you can possibly get
OdinYggdIf it destroys that it probably destroyed you too.
Mikeeeor just bury it
Mikeeedrill a 30 foot deep hole, drop a waterproof case with the drive in into the hole
Viper-7i think paraffin is about as effective as water
Viper-7you still need shitloads of it
Mikeeewater is more effective
mluwhat if my basement was actually 30-ft deep? :P
Mikeeeif you filled your basement in, sure!
mluthen I just need to get a barrel of lard and dunk the stick down
durrfim out of through hole soldering kits to assemble, only got some SMD ones left
mluspeaking of SMD kits: once you get the hang of it, do you prefer SMD passive components or through-hole passive components for prototyping?
ali1234i prefer SMD now
mluI'm still finding myself getting used to the smell of chipquik
Viper-7if i have a proper PCB with soldermask etc, then yeah SMD is fine, slightly faster & easier even, until you get to those silly chips where the pads are entirely under the package at least
durrfalso this last kit i assembled is made for 230v, its an adjustable DC power supply, i gotta find a 110v->12v transformer to power it off of my 110v power right? (it coems with a 230->12v transformer, what would happen if i put 110v into it?)
Viper-7but theres no good equivalent of stripboard/veroboard for SMD, so eh
Viper-7and fuck.dat @ home etching
Viper-7so yeah, most of my prototypes end up being SMD modules on a through-hole backplane
ali1234pcb prototyping is so cheap now there is no point to messing with strip board
grokkingStuffHi there! Is there a channel for electronics help?
Mikeeethis channel can do mid-level help
ali1234for breadboard you can get SMD adapter boards
Mikeeeextremely low level help should probably be done elsewhere
Viper-7its just a matter of time, for an initial prototype you usually want it working that day, not to send away for a pcb design that you'll receive boards for in a week or two
grokkingStuffMikeee: I'm a noob who wants to implement a reprogrammable switch using an fpga
grokkingStuffis that mid-level?
Viper-7the whole point of the prototype is to validate things before you go to that level
Viper-7after that its pre-production
ali1234true. if you are willing to pay more you can get it done quick and local though
ali1234but given the price, 2 weeks isn't really a big deal
Viper-7i'll still rather build such a prototype using stripboard and through hole components for the sake of speed & cost
grokkingStuffMikeee: Say like 20 switches (ON-OFF) that represent a password.
ali123420 bits of entropy is pretty weak
Viper-7and why you'd use an FPGA for that is beyond me
grokkingStuffali1234: it's a physical switch so humans would have to alter the switch
grokkingStuffViper-7: a friend suggested an fpga
grokkingStuffi'd go with something similar
Viper-7your friend is a masochist
grokkingStuffsomething simpler*
grokkingStuffViper-7: you're not wrong...
ali1234an arduino and a couple of shift registers would work fine
grokkingStuffali1234: an arduino is a bit too big for my application
ali1234its smaller than a fpga
Viper-7 would be my first choice
grokkingStuffokay, sweet
ali1234also you better not be making some weird bitcoin thing
grokkingStuffali1234: nah, it's a for a usb medallion to store passwords
Mikeeeif an arduino is too big, go with an atmel chip with the arduino bootloader
grokkingStuffnot for bitcoin mining or anything
Mikeeeor a pro mini
grokkingStuffMikeee: just use the microprocessor itself? huh
grokkingStuffwould i need memory with that?
Mikeeeyou can run an atmega IC bare, with no external components
ali1234no it is built in
Viper-7the micro has its own flash storage, ram, etc internally
grokkingStuffso the microprocessor alone, huh
Mikeeeyou could add external storage if you wanted, if thats what you mean
grokkingStuffMikeee: nah, i thing 40 bits should be enough
Viper-7but i'd not use an atmega, you'll need to go for a fairly large one for the pin count you need
grokkingStuffViper-7: anyway to reduce the number of pins i'd need
Flea86grokkingStuff: The atmega is not a microprocessor, but an embedded microcomputer
ali1234shift registers
grokkingStuffFlea86: thanks! TIL
Mikeeethe microcontroller is just that tiny fingernail sized IC. The arduino is just the rest of it, and all it does is regulate power and let you upload from USB
Viper-7if security is somehow important, shift regs dont sound ideal
Viper-7grokkingStuff: you can use one of a variety of multiplexing schemes sure
grokkingStuffViper-7: security is important but it's going to be shielded behind sheet metal
grokkingStuffcan't think of a magnetic disruption or anything that can throw it off
Viper-7eg shift regs would be very hackable via power line analysis - people could tell the position of the switches from watching the battery connection
Viper-7depends on the design of the device tho
ali1234or they could just look at the switches
grokkingStuffViper-7: huh.
grokkingStuffViper-7: the only input/output is a usb port and a couple of switches
Viper-7grokkingStuff: so you want hardware usb support too? :P
grokkingStuffno clue what a multiplexing scheme is. is that something someone else would know
ali1234memorizing 20 bits is really hard you know
grokkingStuffali1234: it's going to be based on some date or something.
ali1234much easier if you have a keypad. 20 bits is only 7 digits
grokkingStuffali1234: would be better if not a keypad. the switches are harder to get information from
ali1234even better to get rid of the pin code entirely and just have "yes/no" buttons
grokkingStuffyes/no buttons?
ali1234i suppose that means you need to protect it
ali1234forget that idea
grokkingStuffViper-7: not really. this circuit is just to open/close access to the usb
grokkingStuff^ answer to your question about usb support.
ali1234that's not secure at all...
ali1234i can just break it open and bridge the mosfets or whatever
grokkingStuffali1234: umm, trying to break into it breaks the usb
mluViper-7: is it just me, or is that STM-32 actually lower-cost than the ATMega328P-AU?
grokkingStuffyou can drill into the usb, lipo batteries or into a circuit that fries the usb
gurkimlu: thats because atmegas are expensive af
grokkingStuffso to recap - get an atmega switch and a multiplexing scheme to make my thing
mluhmm, a similarly-powered PIC seems to be just as expensive
grokkingStuffViper-7 & ali1234 & Mikeee: ^
ali1234grokkingStuff: you should just buy a password wallet rather than try to make your own. DIY security is never a good idea if you don't know what you are doing
gurkiif youre note familiar with any arch there is no reason to go pic/avr imho
gurkiid straight go arm
Mikeeewell not atmega specifically
Mikeeeyou could go with any microcontroller
grokkingStuffali1234: it's a project. not really useful.
grokkingStuffMikeee: that's true.
Mikeeethe idea is that if you're using a microcontroller IC itself, you can deadbug to safe space
Mikeeeand just pot it with epoxy or something
Mikeeeto make it super tiny
gurkiwhy dont you just fab a pcb/get it fabbed
Mikeeehe said an arduino was too big
gurkibesides its hard to beat a nucleo space-wise
gurkisome arduino micro / nucleo?
gurkiits really hard to beat that without some etched pcb
Mikeeei'd probably have went with the pro mini
mluone thing I've been wondering: is the STM32 worth playing with if I already have a MSP432?
Mikeeei have never messed with ARM
Mikeeei need to eventually
grokkingStuffMikeee: honestly a pro mini sounds pretty good
gurkioh i just mixed up msp432 with sth else. i didnt know mps432 is cortex m4
gurkiso u migh tjust stick with that
grokkingStuffi know how to work with an arduino, would that suffice for pro mini (with a bit of help?)
mluyou probably mixed it up with the MSP430 :P
gurkimlu: yap.
mluthat's one of my favorites, but only if being powered by a coin cell is a requirement
gurkidunno. i got myself comfortable with the possibilities of arm ucs
gurkii dont wanna go back
grokkingStuffMikeee: i know how to work with an arduino, would that suffice for pro mini (with a bit of help?)
mluI'm wondering how the PIC32MX (MIPS-based) will turn out
gurkii pretty much dont care about pic at this point unless sth big happens
Mikeeethe pro mini is an arduino
gurkithey were an alternative before arm got big
gurkibut now ... *shrugs*
Mikeeejust stripped down
mluI always wondered why Arduinos are so overengineered
Flea86Probably thumb2 mode is one reason over pic32..
gurkihuh? are they?
grokkingStuffMikeee: huh. sweet.
mluI mean, the USB to serial chip is more powerful than the target MCU
grokkingStuffright, i'm gonna try things out
Mikeeeyou can't program it with USB, it must be programmed using a programmer. So you can use an arduino AS a programmer (very easy) to program it
grokkingStuffthanks a lot, guys!
gurkimlu: thats nothing special
gurkimlu: thats the case for a lot of boards, including arm devboards
grokkingStuffMikeee: will keep that in mind, thanks
mluI wonder why they don't just have a CP2102 hooked up to AVR-ISP and call it a day
gurkithe chip is just cheaper than that ft232 :)
Flea86grokkingStuff: Good to see you living up to your nick :)
Mikeeeso are ARM boards easy to program like an arduino
gurkibecause nobody with a sane mind would use cp2102 in a bigger thing
Mikeeeor is there a big learning curve
grokkingStuffFlea86: :D
gurkiMikeee: depends, really
gurkiif you use mbed or keil its pretty much the same, esp for mbed
gurkiif youre one of this kinda nuts open source guys with makefile n shit it can be a pita
gurkibtw: there is arduino for some specific stm32 boards
Flea86pita bread
gurkiFlea86: i hope u do not have bread in there right nwo :P
mluMikeee: the MSP432 works nicely with Energia :)
mlumy eyes hurt because the interface is red instead of green though
Flea86gurki: Probably in fermeted form ;)
gurkiFlea86: point taken. ;)
mlualso, you do need a slightly funky toolchain
tawrACTION throws a dog at Flea86
gurkimlu: i fail to see the difference, really
gurkiACTION throws tawr at Flea86 
Flea86ACTION catches and pets said dog
Flea86ACTION catches tawr and handballs him back to gurki
mlugurki: hehehe: maybe I just like the rockeship icon a bit more :)
gurkioh. a tawr :)
gurkiACTION pets tawr
tawrat least he didn't gzip me like last time
intranickACTION gzips tawr
gurkii guess this was to be expected ^^
Bird|ghostedgurki, so what's the deal with the cp2102?
intranickholy shit your pube chin wont compress!
intranickwhat the fuck
Flea86haha you ended up with a larger file size than the original xD
tawri know you're unused to facial hair, considering you've never been able to grow more than fuzz anywhere intranick. i really hope your hormone therapy gets approved by your insurance
intranickonly because of the pubes on his chin
jaggzusing pvc glue to seal a "dap" caulk tube worked..
Flea86Also o/
jaggzmaybe a year later and it was still fresh, even inside at the very tip
Bird|ghostedtawr: whereas over here, I sometimes wonder if I'm part hinfolk or something considering how much hair I grow
jaggzthe silicone caulk.. not so much.. that stuff has a shelf life and won't cure now -- even though it was completely unopened
tawrintranick has been waiting for his insurance to pay for his hormone replacement therapy. he's hoping for a boy-to-man transition
jaggzwhat the hell are you guys talking about
tawrjaggz: weird. squeeze some ou and mix in a few drops of water and see if it cures in ~10m
tawrjaggz: rofl. banter.
jaggztawr, really? okay.. cool
intranicktawr: i can grow thicker and less pube like hair than you
intranickyour fucking chin has short and curlies coming off of it
intranickits a fucking freak of nature
jaggztawr, 10 meters elevation won't make a difference
Bird|ghostedjaggz, minutes not meters man :)
tawri guess you'd be clean shaving with all those swords laying around, intranick
jaggzBird|ghosted, ;)
intranickfucking right
intranicktheres no better shave than a longsword shave
jaggzsounds sensual
intranickoh the girls all think its hot
jaggzwomen don't like the smell of men.. there's like, a 5 minute window of the month when women find men smell appealing
intranickbut the girls all run from tawr's face pubes
jaggztawr looks like a drummer or a backup guitarist
intranicknah he looks like a bad guitar technician
jaggzdoesn't strike me as a lead singer in a band though.. could be.
jaggzintranick, where's your photo?
jaggz(if you have one public)
intranickhe's been following the band for so long that he looks underfed from being underpaid
jaggzintranick looks like a groupie?
tawran overfed one, at that
jaggzall the hormones have made his mustache and nosehair into one piece
tawrlol i can't comment on that, i decided to grow a mustache
jaggz(I personally think it's neat that it works that way)
gurkithe fuq is happening ^^
intranickheres my selfie
jaggzI grew my facial hair out for some time.. when looking back I kinda just look.. dunno.. like a perv
jaggzgurki, that's "de lik is happening ^^"
jaggzek :(
jaggzI just caulked over a bunch of ants outside.. with that weird-assed DAP stuff
jaggzwhich reminds me of some mistake someone decided to market
jaggz"dries clear in 6-8 weeks"
jaggzweird stuff.. put it around our sink and the new faucet I put in .. for, like a year, water would make it white again
jaggzit shrinks up a lot as it dries .. which ends up being kinda a nice positive if you use it to your advantage
jaggzmakes a nice clean joint
jaggzforgives you of inaccuracies from not doing caulking much
jaggzand the edges become a very thin skin, so.. forgiveness there too
jaggzat night, where do our brown widows go..
jaggzand.. where are all the baby pigeons?
jaggzit's like, they stay in the nest until they're fully grown and then fly.
mluah, the Aoyue hot air station: good for hot air, but horrible pencil
Sonican relays be unreliable?
Sonior rather, when would a relay be unsuitable?
flyback-yeah I got a aoyue 968 non-A, sparkfun/ATTEN 50 watt iron and a aoyue 2930 iron
flyback-next iron will be a hakko, I am done
Sonican you use relays on devices which take a lot of vibration?
mlujust got mself a Weller WES51 -- very happy with it
mluas for the Aoyue iron: it's so bad that I prefer the $14 firestarter
gurkii can recommend the weller wxmp stuff. luckily, there are tons of diy soldering stations for them
zigggggyACTION ruffles gurki's hair
gurkizigggggy: ! :)
zigggggyACTION hugs gurki
mlufor me, I only bought Weller because I thought the Hakko looked silly and the reviews were very competitive between the WES51 and 888FX
gurkithere are tons of used wellers on ebay :)
gurkijust dont go for the "mainstream" ones
mluthat's what I had before: don't know how I lived with that PoS for so long
Viper-7Soni: relays are shit, only useful these days in applications where you need near zero on resistance and near infinite off resistance, at the expense of electrical noise while switching, contact bounce when switching, finite contact life, high power consumption to hold in the on state (or to change states for latching relays), etc
mluthen I notcied that I couldn't do SMD without boiling the PCB
gurkimlu: :D
Viper-7solid state mosfet or scr/triac based switches are preferable in most cases
gurkiViper-7: how about isulation? ;)
SoniViper-7: how do they compare in price to p-channel MOSFET?
Viper-7depends on the specs
Viper-7gurki: that'd be the 'near infinite off resistance' i mentioned :P
gurkiSoni: i think an apple doesnt compare well to a banana :(
Viper-7but yeah
Soniisolation is use an opto coupler?
Viper-7generally speaking you need to isolate the rest of your circuit from the relay coil anyway, so its a dubious advantage
mluthree tips later (they oxidized like no tomorrow on those firestarters), I decided to upgrade
mlumy conclusion: soldering irons are like bicycles: you pay too little on one, you'll hate to solder :P
gurkiSoni: its not always this easy. think of higher voltages
gurkiyou might have some trusty circuit control some not-so-trusty circuit
Sonigurki: my PC PSU has an opto coupler for voltage differences around 400V
gurkiSoni: ure having the wrong definition of "high voltage"
Sonifair enough
Viper-7the main advantage of a relay is that the switching side doesnt need to know or care about the switched side - both in terms of isolation, and signal integrity - a relay rated for 600V @ 10A can pass a 1mV @ 1uA signal too
Viper-7whereas you'd use different solid state parts for those applications
Viper-7(truth be told you'd normally use different relays there too, as there are other parasitic qualities of high power relays, but hey)
gurkiits just an overall "i dont want to care about this" solution :)
Viper-7if you can use solid state switching instead, its generally preferable
Soniguess I need to convince someone to use MOSFETs instead of relays simply because MOSFETs don't fail because of vibration
gurkiwhat makes you think solder joints dont fail because of vibration?
Soniat that point, you have bigger issues
ewongif I don't have any copper sheets to fix pads, can I use aluminium sheets?
OdinYggdYou can't solder aluminum for one thing
OdinYggdfor another, aluminum and copper do not mix nicely
Soniuh I'm pretty sure you can solder aluminium
Viper-7mosfets last essentially infinite switching cycles, are relatively immune to vibration, do not suffer from contact bounce, can switch much more rapidly, and take less power to drive - at the cost of some small amount of leakage while off, and lacking true isolation between the control and output sides
OdinYggdNo, you can't
Soniyes you can?
OdinYggdNot without a special solder and flux
Sonithat's true
OdinYggdNormal solder will not stick to it
Sonibut you can
Viper-7not applicable for ewong's case
SoniI have used normal solder with aluminium before
Viper-7ewong: tin yes, aluminium no
OdinYggdNormal solder won't wet aluminum.
Tutatoralum wont take silver solder or brazing .... it just melts
Sonior was it tin...
ewongfixing pads for a qfn is painful... I seriously should've just bought that hot air before attempting to fix this pcb...
OdinYggdYou can encapsulate an aluminum piece in a blob of solder, but the solder won't actualy stick
Soniit might've been tin
OdinYggdsolder sticks wonderfulyl to tin, as solder contains tin
teratomaEionRobb, tool of the globalist elitetlOBOBOBOB
ewongOdinYggd: thanks for the info..
Viper-7Soni: use cases for relays these days are where extremely low leakage is required (eg reed relays within an oscilloscope), and cheap timer/control modules (typically for mains), where they can work on any power grid, and dont need any fancy electronics on their control board - but they'll fail eventually, dont like vibration, etc
Viper-7(and some edge case uses in telecoms, medical and research applications)
TutatorI work in marine and vibration is our bane
Viper-7as for solder holding up to vibration, this is why god invented potting :P
Viper-7you cannot pot a relay to save it from vibration
linux_probesolid state time
mlusoldering to aluminum: hmm, a cold joint does well enough ;)
mluACTION recalls the number of failed shoddy joints...
Viper-7"a cold joint does well enough" o.O are you chinese?
Tutatormeh ... I had an acquaintance tell me a job was bodgy because the installer didnt use crimp connectors
TutatorSome people make it hard to keep a straight face
gurkiTutator: how do you properly install anything without crimp connectors?
TutatorJust twist the wires together and wrap it in pvc xD
mluViper-7: in spirit ;)
ewongduct tape. :P
gurkijust an overall great idea :P
gurkimlu: thats not exactly a good thing :P
gurkidid you prepare your copy of Viper-7 ?
gurkii guess its called Viper-14 or sth
darkdrgn2khi all
darkdrgn2kany one know what this chip is ?
Viper-7well there IS a Viper168 already :P
mluACTION orders a Viper328PB-MU
gurkibeware! im sure its a disguised pic!
darkdrgn2kwow how did you find it so early :)
Viper-7Cost-Effective 8-Bit OTP MCU
darkdrgn2kso its like a atmega?
gurkiit means ure screwed
Viper-7kinda sorta yeah, one time programmable tho
darkdrgn2kah i see
darkdrgn2kcan it be read though?
gurkiyou were just provided said datasheet :)
gurkibut id agree with Viper-7
Viper-7i searched HT48R and that was the top link :P
darkdrgn2khow do you find these things so quicky :/
gurkiby putting whats written on the chip into google?
darkdrgn2khm for some reason i was sarching ht4001
darkdrgn2kim so dum :P
darkdrgn2kbut this one isnt so easy
darkdrgn2ki tink its some wireless check set
gurkiwhats the thing u actually want to do? ^^
darkdrgn2kso its a peice of beer mug
darkdrgn2kthat supposed to flash lights and stuff and look all cool
darkdrgn2kbut i think it need to recieve a signal
darkdrgn2kof some sort
Viper-7well yeah thats wireless of some kind
darkdrgn2ksomething like this
Viper-7but now im out for a smoke :P
gurkismoking kills! :(
darkdrgn2klooks like a bluetooth maybe?
Tutatorit does
darkdrgn2kin the video the seem to use some sort of app th eactivate it..
darkdrgn2kwonder what app it is
darkdrgn2k(i got it at a concert.. just trying to reverse engeneer it)
Viper-7according to the state of california, so does air
gurki100% of terrorists breathed air! forbid air!
Tutatorclone it on linux and connect to the app.....record verbose output
darkdrgn2kyeh gatta find the app first..
Tutatorsearch budweiser in the app store
darkdrgn2ki have been
darkdrgn2kfound one that may be it
gurkii thought we were talking about beer?
_vinceanyone familiar with overload protectors/capacitors in refridgeration
_vinceany way to make the fridge work without replacing a broken one
darkdrgn2kso i dont thing they need to pair it with the device.. wonder if i can sniff some packtes :P
ScienceBumuh.. i don't know much about A/C , but generally speaking are resistance and impedence roughly the same?
homeokay guys
homeI need help with linear actuators
_vincei cannot find a replacement or even the part number anywhere
homeI have one of the garden sliding doors
_vincei too wonder if they are similar, i suppose not
homeand I want to use a linear actuator to close and open the sliding door
_vincebut a bunch of them are sold at ridiculously varied prices and the part itself looks identical
homeso that it can be used as a door
homeand have an app that can open and close the door (with delays of course)
_vincelooks exactly like,320_.jpg
homeI need to find a linear actuator with the right amount of clearance
Bird|ghosted_vince, yours isn't resettable?
Tutatorhome just measure the length and stroke you need from the actuator, the supplier can usually supply a load sensitive control circuit to stop the door from crushing someone to death and there are any number of ways to trigger it
Viper-7darkdrgn2k: it may be bluetooth, but my guess would be something more proprietary, likely based on the nRF24L01
Viper-7so 2.4GHz wireless, but not wifi or bluetooth
homeTutator, that is something I didn't consider
homeso if it detects tehre is a jam, the door stops? or retracts
homethe linear actuator in this case
homeor do I have to code that in
Tutatoryou can usually choose wether it will retract if just stop
homepeople will be going in and out of the door
Tutator*or just stop
homeI know it has a potentiometer
Tutatorthe control boxes are easy to use
homeanyone has ever done a project like tihs?
TutatorI do it all the time
homeI have programmed a linear actuator before for robotics stuff
homeso I know how to use the potentiometer and to control it so that it reaches a certain angle and then back
Viper-7ScienceBum: impedance is resistance to an AC frequency - when the frequency changes, so may the resistance
homeI have an arduino, rpi (for app), 12V power supplies, electronics stuff to make connections and the like
ScienceBumah. thanks Viper-7
homejust need the actual item (linear actuator)
OdinYggdACTION rehomes home
homeI am gonna take some picture sof the door and some measurements and put it on a Google doc
homeI have classess starting soon, so I want this going ASAP
homethanks for the help so far Tutator
Tutatorhome: You are probably better off doing a search on them ....there are a lot of different brands and types of control systems ... I work in marine, we use them for doors and retractable tv's and things on luxury yachts
homeI want to make it custom
hometo reduce costs, as I can program the subsystem
homeit's just making sure it's safe enough
Viper-7for a linear actuator with potentiometer output, you can compare your output to the motor (PWM Duty or such), to the rate of change of the potentiometer, to detect resistance - or better yet use current sensing to figure out that the motor is stalled
Viper-7for a linear actuator with builtin logic and servo control, this is all much harder
Tutatorsome of the logic ones just look at the rpm of the motor... you set a threshhold and if it drops below a point it triggers the fault
Viper-7ACTION haz bacon & eggs
_vinceBird|ghosted: are the ones like in the picture resetable
Bird|ghostednot sure
Bird|ghostedo/ OdinYggd
zigggggyACTION pets hoppy
intranickACTION lights zigggggy on fire
homeyou don't even need a linear actuator
homewhy can we use a window motor or something
homeand have a wooden block to stop the door from opening?
homeactually that would be controlled by a relay
homedoesn't seem that good of an option
Tutatorwindow motor? As in a car?
homedo you see the second picture
homesec gonna edit it with rectangular blocks
homeand the motion that I want to make it do
homeor possible motions
_vincei have a fridge overload cap that need replacement but the part number brings up nothing on google
_vincethey often have overlapping part #s how can i determine a replacement
tpw_rulesit should say the capacitance and voltage
tpw_rulesanything with the same should work
mad7ScientistViper-7, they use Holtek in the DC to AC power inverters that which are made in China
Viper-7mad7Scientist: yeah? they're a fairly common brand.. what about it
_vinceit does not, only has a part number on it, it looks like the thing on the right:
mad7ScientistViper-7, I assume it's the cheapest available then
Bird|ghostedo/ mad7Scientist
_vinceim wondering if i can find any clues if i break it open
mad7Scientistdo you program them?
Tutator_vince: Doubtful
Tutator_vince: is it a thermal switch?
mad7ScientistCompressors generally have an overload switch inside
mad7Scientistlocked rotor protection
mad7Scientistif not then on the outside
mad7ScientistBut with the big window AC units it must just blow the fuse
mad7Scientistif the power goes out for a few seconds
tpw_rulesyeah it's the thermal protect switch
tpw_rules_vince: it clips onto the compressor right?
_vinceyes along with the PTC relay thing on the left
_vincewhich seems to work fine
tpw_rulesi wonder if you've got the wrong number off it
tpw_rulesi've never seen a cap like that
tpw_rulesthose are the same thing, just rotated
mad7ScientistJPT, clever hostname
homethats the lock position
Viper-7home: these are great to replace relays for eg automotive motors,
Viper-7direction & speed control, current sense output, logic level drive
homeand unlock
_vinceoops, yeah that is the same thing
homewow I need those, heck I already havea bunch of motors lying around
_vincebut it attaches to another part called a PTC relay
homebut no speed controllers for them 12V motors atm
homecan a servo motor handle what I request?
homewell physical strain and etc and maybe not powerful eough servo
Viper-7regular servos only have like 200 degrees of rotation
homebut it should be more than good enough
hometo open and close the door right
Viper-7just for putting that lock bar in? yeah
homefor a sliding door? Instead of a linear acutator
homeokay cause I got me some servos to test on
Viper-7but it'll need to be beefy
homewe can use a stronger motor..but you guys understand the direction I want right?
homeinstead of getting an expensive linear actuator or doing all sort of safety measurements and testing etc
homeif a block just goes in and comes out
homeit should work
Tutatorhome you could use central locking solenoids and have pins that lock the door top and bottom
homenow we talking
homeany links
TutatorI would make a push button over-ride next to the door in the event of a fire
homenever seen this
Viper-7pin idea is nice, you could use a servo instead too, but you'll need brackets on the door for a servo and a guide for the pin, and a hole in the track top/bottom
Tutatoryou can get them for a couple of dollars from chinese sites
Viper-7slave would be fine, dont need a master unit here
Tutatoryup dont need the master
TutatorI just grabbed that one first
homeany videos on how it works?
Tutatoryou could get fancy and hook up a fob for it
Viper-7home: slave units are just 2 wires, its basically just a simple linear actuator - dc motor + linear shaft
Viper-7but i wouldnt rely on the actuator itself to provide the strength for "locking" the door
Tutator that will connect directly to the servos
Viper-7hence i'd probably do it myself with servos
homesee I can't visualize it
homethats my problem
_vincewhat is the symbol on this cct labeled 'Overload'
Tutatorif you work a lever in to the design ... the pins could actuate the width of the door and marry with a socket
Tutatorthose solenoids only travel an inch(if that)
_vincewhat is the symbol on this cct labeled 'Overload'
Tutatorthermal switch _vince
_vinceok thanks
_vincewhen is it okay to short it?
Tutatorit is normally closed
Tutatorit should open in the event of overload
_vincedoes it conduct when broken?
Tutatorit should conduct when cold ....sometimes you can check them with hot(nearly boiling) water
homewhat do you guys
homethink of using a PVP pipe
homeinstead of a wooden block
homeas the stopper
homeif I do it my way?
Viper-7so the bracket gets mounted to the door, the pin sits in the hole on the bracket, the bar side of the pin connects to your servo horn, and you have a hole in the top/bottom of the track for the pin to slide into
_vincei have a thermal switch with part number DRB32P61A6 cannot find it anywhere
_vinceon the very component there is another number which is that of the compressor itself which leads to broken chinese links
homestill confused
homeI suck at reading XD
homei am gonna need more 3d models
_vincecompressor QD25H11
Viper-7thats as far as i go :P
Viper-7"i didn't have time to build it to scale, or to paint it"
tawrViper-7: side note
tawri got the other new dog on my bed today
Viper-7tawr: so you'll have fleas tomorrow? :P
tawrhe was scared but he snapped out of it and didn't want to get off. then he jumped off when I told him too, but i have a really tall bed and he ate it
tawrhell no. i take care of my doggoes. but it was hilarious to see him fall lol
tawrhe went straight down nstead of out a bit, so he went butt over head
tawrlike in a cartoon
Viper-7poor thing :P he'll probably never want to get back up there again :P
tawrlol nah he will. the other one is now a beddog, as soon as she comes in from outside and i get my drink to wake up in the morning, she hops on the bed and lays around. he'll do the same
CasperACTION wonders how good of an idea it is to use a triac for a motor...
ozzzyit was a great idea in the 50s
Tutatorthe 7.2v remote cars use silicon drivers
Tutatorthey burn out a lot too
CasperACTION hesitate between a relay and a triac for a fridge compressor...
Tutatorrelay is tried and true is limited of course
tawrTutator: not sure what that means, like gas station r/c's?
tawrbecause modern rc vehicles are all brushless 3 phase motors now, with custom firmwares available for the escs. it's crazy, so cheap now
Viper-7HV cap across the relay contacts would probably be advised
Tutator7.2v brushless motor remote controlled cars ( 100:1 or thereabouts)
Viper-7pfft 7.2V, ok grandpa
tgeekylatest The Signal path uses the 8-channel tek scope
TutatorViper-7: Get off the lawn you damn kids
TutatorACTION shakes a fist arthiritically 
Snert7.2v would be 4s, right?
Snertthat's what I see in the RC heli world.
Snertthat's right.
Viper-7or more commonly, 6s nicd/nimh
HighInBC4s turns a 7.2V system into a small fireplace
Viper-77.4V is 2S lipo
Snertmy 450 size 4s and 5s helis were powerful as hell and fun.
HaxxaI was thinking of adding led backlighting to my mech keyboard: currently it has no pcb traces for leds my plan was to simply glue it under the keycap and wire them together above the pcb. Would this be ok or would the leds short against the pcb traces?
Haxxai.e. do I need to isolate the pcb from the pcb or are pcbs top layers generally insulated from components?
HighInBCHaxxa: the solder mask is an insulator
HaxxaHighInBC, thanls
OdinYggdIf the solder mask is solid anyway
tgeekyif that board has solder mas
OdinYggdIt wouldn't take much to put a thin layer of polyethylene film in between
tgeekyand, assuming the wires don't interfere with the action of the keys in any way
OdinYggdyou can buy the stuff at a hardware store to make vapor barriers in wall construction
OdinYggdand its quite thin, but insulating enough to withstand a substantial voltage
tawrthe best for this, from experience
tawris gorilla glue 'clear repair tape'. it's very similar to helicopter/500mph tape
tawrit's great stuff. i normally dont like any gorilla glue products, but their clear repair tape is great stuff. so is their hot glue sticks
tgeekydamn they are turning gorillas into glue now too? I thought it was just for horse hooves.
tawrbtw, you can also use that clear repair tape as a cellphone screen protector. one of my nibblings dropped their phone and cracked the glass screen pretty bad. i put this tape over it to keep the screen together and glass out of his face. he dropped it another 10x and the tape kept the screen together
Haxxaalso anyway to chain hundreds of leds without hundreds of resistors?
tawruse a cc or pwm i2c chip
Haxxatawr, I want them all the same color so no need for independant control
tawrHaxxa: well, the 'work' is the same
tawrHaxxa: and it's less work for you. a lot of these driver chips can also take a voltage in to set the output
tawrnot just i2c
Viper-7Haxxa: connect them in series and use a high voltage
Viper-7eg LED backlighting on TVs is often 66 leds in series, 200V
HaxxaViper-7, yeah the keybaord is wireless I am debating if I should even do it - I was considering adding some high resistance resistors and having a dim backlight with a photocell regulating when its on
Haxxathe power source would only be 2xAA cells
Viper-72xAA cells driving hundreds of LEDs? :/
HaxxaViper-7, yep logitech eng team states they didn't include them because battery life would suck (40hrs est.) I think I could proably fit a lipo in there too though
Viper-7why hundreds of LEDs?
Viper-7LED backlit keyboards usually have like.. 6-10 LEDs
Viper-7and a diffuser / spreader
HaxxaViper-7, these are romer-g keys with a light bar in the centre so by design usally they have an led under each switch
Viper-7then resistor per LED :P
Viper-7or use a chip as suggested
Viper-7ws2811, tlc5940, etc
HaxxaViper-7, ok thanks will do
Viper-7tlc5940 gives you 16x outputs, with internal current limiting to each output, plus addressable control
Viper-7there is a 24x output version too, but i forget the part number
jsoftGoing to have a crack at writing a digital low pass filter this evening. Mostly because our lecturer said it would take a year of uni to be able to make any kind of digital filter.
jsoftAlso; why is my dac output not working? :)
Viper-7but yeah, 24x resistors would probably still be cheaper :P
Viper-7jsoft: case & point :P
SpeedEviljsoft: digital filters aren't that hard.
SpeedEvilunderstanding them deeply can be.
jsoftSpeedEvil, yeah well, I have never done them before.
jsoftSpeedEvil, they struck me as rather interesting.
SpeedEvilRC filter is trivial in software
jsoftI done about 300 calculations with pen and pencil today simulating a couple of sine waves with a FIR filter
Flea86Easiest digital LPF = shift+add routine :)
jsoftI am aiming for something with a very sharp knee
tgeekythere's a Skyrim joke in here somewhere
jsoftMeanwhile, I am dicking around wondering what register I have not tickled in order to get a DAC output
jsofttgeeky, hehe :D
jsofttgeeky, I only just got that :)
Viper-7tgeeky: you missed it earlier
Flea86jsoft: you'll get quicker results using something like Octave
tgeekyViper-7: wat?
jsoftFlea86, Octave?
Viper-7<Viper-7> "a cold joint does well enough" o.O are you chinese?
Flea86jsoft: open source alternative to mathcad iirc
tgeekyViper-7: days since racism reset? :O
jsoftFlea86, oh right, I am just going to get a basic thing working first before I mince around with matlab/octave
tgeekyViper-7: also, nobody is fucking denying that it works once you've done it. But does it work like even 6 months later? Or, after shipping even?
tgeekyjsoft: just so you'v seen it: -> circuits -> digital filters -> etc
Viper-7people were talking about soldering to aluminium
Flea86jsoft: pencil and paper is rather quaint, hence my comment :)
tgeekyjsoft: also:
tgeekyjsoft: lastly:
jsoftFlea86, oh right, yeah well I was without computar at school today :)
Flea86tgeeky: I wonder if that will run on a smartphone's browser :D
jsoftWahts this :o business Flea86 ?
Flea86jsoft: I don't follow, were you doing an exam?
jsoftFlea86, no
jsoftFlea86, I was bored and curious
Viper-7falstad *kinda* works on a phone
Viper-7you cant zoom in and out properly, so especially in the simulator, when you edit the value of something, the browser zooms right in on the textbox, then when you submit that, you're stuck zoomed in :P
tgeekyViper-7: also note that the analog and digital filters are seperate, I think older, and they work less well than usual
Spirit532The trick to soldering to aluminium is simple
Spirit532You use an ultrasonic soldering iron
tgeekySpirit532: weld instead?
Spirit532Ultrasonic soldering irons are fuckin magic
Spirit532You can solder to glass
Spirit532Literally anything
tgeekyPerhaps air is stretching it a little?
Spirit532It really is not
Spirit532If you take too much solder onto the tip it will just remain in the air and fall onto the adjacent surfaces
tgeekySpirit532: and in what sense is that soldering something to air?
Spirit532Solder won't stay on the tip
Spirit532Just flies off into the air
Spirit532I'm tempted to grab myself a JBC iron handle and a few heating tips
tgeekyI think we are missing something
Spirit532But I'm not sure if it's worth like $100-150
Spirit532(+ DIY control)
Snertwipe the tip on damp sponge..excess gone...back to soldering....*tst* *tst*
Snertget a grip. Be fast. be good.
Spirit532with JBC power levels you can just dump the tip in water and go back to soldering
Spirit532250W in a pencil
Spirit532but the stations themselves cost absurd amounts of money
Spirit532only the handles/solder cartridges(tips) are okayish
Hoolootwoyeah, same with the metcals
Hoolootwoprobably not good for the tip though
Spirit532metcals are RF voodoo though
Spirit532you can't DIY a driver easily for that
Spirit532unless you have a scrap FM station transmitter handy
jsoftAhh there we go. Ye old missing DAC_CR_EN1 register was missing
tgeekyclassic. even shakespeare did it.
tgeekysimpsons have done it twice.
tawrdamnit tgeeky stop highlighting me
jsoftGrrr this toggling scope trace is annoying
tawri have some metcal desoldering stations i've sold a few
tawrthe ones that are a solid machine block of anodized black aluminum that weighs like 20 fucking pounds
Viper-7whats the conversion rate of US pounds to fucking pounds? :D
Casperprobably 100:1
jsoftI bought a high quality optimum performance world changing blow the hot air out to solder things gun the other day
jsoft$50 off of ali :)
jsoftBound to be packed full of safe, quality features
HighInBCsuper useful
_vinceis that a thing? convection soldering iron?
mrdata_tgeeky, analysts estimate that the magnitude 6.3 quake is due to a 100 kiloton yield and its type is still undetermined
HighInBCI assume he meant a hot air blower
HighInBCfor SMT work
Snertam I given to think that this is Kim's actual hydrogen bomb?
Snerta real pic of his latest and greatest?
HighInBCI bet it is his beer keg
Snertlol! yea.
HighInBCthere is a sign that says "do not touch" and he is going to touch it
SpeedEvilThat seems ambitiously compact.
SnertCome on. How often do you show your neighbors YOUR hydrogen bomb?
Snertget real.
SpeedEvilI keep mine hidden.
Snertand so should Kim.
Snertor does, rather.
jsoftOperation things and stuff
Viper-7keeping it hidden would defeat their goals
jsoftWTF is going on Mr password32.dll ?
Viper-7they wanna play in the MAD arena, in that game you're far better off convincing people you have nukes when you really dont, than convincing people you dont have nukes when you do.
password32jsoft: :D
Viper-7great photo tho, they remind me of the gungans from star wars ep 1. "dissen da booma?" "yah, dissen IS da booma!"
password32the gungans where fun
ewongthe moment GL added Gungans to Star Wars... that's when things went south
password32star wars was always very experiemntal in its story line
password32I'm behind on the new star wars anyway
password32I watched the force awakens
Viper-7i enjoyed rogue one
Viper-7more than ep 1-3 at least
ewongnot saying much :)
ewongcoz ep 1-3 shouldn't have been made. i.e. Nooooooooooooooo
Viper-7also more than the force awakens i think, but thats a little unfair atm, because i like the way rogue one flows into ep 4 - cant say that for force awakens.. yet at least :P
Flea86Hello. Can anyone recommend a good PCB assembly house? Thanks :)
Viper-7Flea86: pcbway?
Viper-7and does this mean we haz fpgas soon? :D
SpeedEvilAnd hopefully richfpga86
Flea86Viper-7: Yes it does :)
tawrhow much does a Flea86-assembled unit with extra dna cost?
tawr...asking for a friend
Flea86SpeedEvil: loll dunno about that.. maybe ihazpizzamoney86 ;)
Flea86tawr: extra dna? :)
SpeedEvilAn unusual conformal coat.
Flea86collagen coat
Flea86I'll have to look into that one..
Flea86Viper-7: See
Hoolootwocool, FPGAs, how much will one cost?
Flea86Hoolootwo: Working on that right now, hence my question in the chan earlier
Hoolootwoah, okay, cool :)
Flea86Hoolootwo: I could hand-build these, but I think it might be a bit beyond my capability
Flea86in terms of repeatability
azonenbergOnly one problem, the list price is $3.9K :p
azonenbergI knew active differential probes are pricey but... that's more than i just paid for a new 350 MHz quad channel DSO
Flea86azonenberg: They can go even higher than that
Hoolootwohmm, what model is the FPGA? what kind of package is that?
Flea86Hoolootwo: ECP5 FPGA, 381-ball BGA package.
Flea86*Lattice ECP5
Hoolootwoactually a few hours ago I just broke a couple phone motherboards by (I think) heating them to too high temperature :(
azonenbergFlea86: yeah but this is only a 500 MHz model
Hoolootwoyeah, 3.9K isn't very high
azonenbergACTION is gonna stick with the stock probes on this new scope for a while, probably :p
Hoolootwowell, that's barely 1
Flea86Howlootwo: I understand your pain.. I had two of my Ohm boards delaminate due to incorrect profiles
azonenbergthat, plus the solder down probes I built a while ago
Hoolootwobarely twice as good as th 60s scope I have :/
azonenberg20x resistive probes made for dirt cheap on flex PCB
azonenbergHoolootwo: i just ordered, upgraded to 350 MHz by the factory
azonenberg(the dealer had a promo, buy a scope in this line and you get a free upgrade to the next bandwidth up)
azonenbergTo replace my aging rigol ds1102d
Hoolootwohow much?
Flea86Lecroy make some nice stuff, to be sure.
azonenbergi think i paid 4.5k including some software options for protocol decode
azonenbergthe scope is listed at 3.8k, i paid 3.6 for the scope plus a free bandwidth upgrade (normally you'd pay $2K to upgrade from 200 to 350 MHz)
Flea86Yeah. Neat :)
azonenbergWith that sale, it was the best scope around for the price by far
Flea86ooh lunch is ready bbiab
HoolootwoI got my tektronix 7633 (iirc, not home atm) for free
azonenbergi'm excited to see how these probes work with it
azonenberg(could probably have made the tip smaller... oh well, next time)
Hoolootwohow exactly does that work?
azonenberg here's a long shot of a test setup with one of the probes on it
azonenbergIt's a 1K ohm impedance (so fairly heavy load for analog, but fine for most digital stuff) passive probe with 20:1 attenuation
Hoolootwois the resistor on the probe or the board?
azonenbergThe resistor is on the probe
azonenberg950 ohms at the probe tip, 50 ohms to ground at the scope
azonenberg(use with external 50 ohm attenuator, or a scope with 50 ohm inputs)
azonenbergmuch lower capacitive loading than the standard cheap passive probes
azonenbergthen i just put a MMCX connector at the other end of some flex pcb
Hoolootwoah, okay
azonenbergwith 50 ohm line between them
azonenbergand run 50 ohm coax to the scope
azonenbergit's a really nice probe for fast digital, it just loads a bit much for sensitive analog use
azonenbergi saw some graphs that showed it was basically as accurate as a high-end active FET probe for probing digital signals up to a couple GHz
azonenberg this was a measurement i made with that probe using my homebrewed 10 Gsps sampling oscilloscope
HoolootwoI think the best scope I ever used was I think a 2Ghz agilent
azonenbergI'm going to try to make a 100 Gsps version of this same design
azonenbergthe lecroy will obviously be the way to go for real-time sampling (this scope needs ~10K passes over the waveform to digitize it)
azonenbergBut if you just want an eye diagram and don't mind waiting a while, i think this is a pretty nice acquisition for $50 of parts plus an FPGA devkit
azonenbergAnd i have a roadmap to make a next-gen design with 10-25x the timebase resolution, not yet sure how far i can push voltage (i'll probably want to put it under EMI cans and everything)
SpeedEvilTI (?) has a silly GHz ADC with 8kb ofRAM that you can read over I2C
azonenbergSpeedEvil: Yes i saw that thing
azonenbergBut i doubt it can do what i want
azonenbergI'm targeting 10 GHz analog B/W and 100 Gsps equivalent sampling rate
azonenbergi want something good enough to do eye diagrams on DDR3
SpeedEvilyes, it's expensive, and small Ram
SpeedEvilThough 8Ksamples might often be just fine for eye diagrams
azonenbergyes but not enough bandwidth / sample rate
azonenbergi looked at that one
zigggggyACTION slaps azonenberg around a bit with a large trout
azonenbergi think it was only 2 Gsps
SpeedEvilyeah - it's a few years old now
azonenbergACTION evades said trout and throws a tuna back
intranickACTION lights zigggggy on fire
azonenbergACTION drools
azonenbergi want plots like that, lol
azonenbergno way is that 40 Gsps
SpeedEvilis that just dot plotting, not accumulating sin(x)/x ?
azonenbergmaybe 40 Gsps realtime, but not equivalent
azonenbergI believe that is dot plotting, yes
azonenbergthat's how my render i linked above was done
azonenbergthe lecroy seems like it
azonenbergask zigggggy, he works there :p
azonenberg yeah 62 ps/div, the pixel locations look like fractions of a ps
azonenbergWhich is not 40 GS/s
azonenbergInterestingly enoguh lecroy is the only company who posts high res eye screenshots that look this nice... all of the other ones i see are "web resolution" images i can't read anything off :p
SpeedEvilACTION idly wonders when scopes will come with in-built image sharing with meme templates.
Flea86azonenberg: Well, when you're a market leader I suppose it is okay to boast :)
azonenbergFlea86: lol
azonenbergyeah, now if only i could afford more than their bottom-of-the-line model... :p
Flea86haha yeah.. I'll have to stick with my TDS5104 a bit longer here
azonenbergthis one scope i'm drooling over now has a *bandwidth limiter* at 8 GHz you can enable
azonenbergthe actual analog bandwidth of the scope is 13 GHz :p
azonenbergactually wait that wasnt even the highest end model
azonenbergthey go up to 30 GHz in the same family
SpeedEvilbw limit to improve knee performance?
azonenbergpresumably, or noise reduction etc
SpeedEvilaliasing I mean
azonenbergMaximum equivalent time sampling rate is 200 Gsps
azonenbergfor those scopes
Flea86azonenberg: huh? I think my TDS can do more than that.
azonenbergWant :p
azonenbergFlea86: this isnt the highest end model
synx508just thinking about how quickly you could fill up memory with those scopes, mind boggling numbers
azonenbergBut 30 GHz bandwidth? i want it :p
azonenbergWife would kill me if i put our house fund into a down payment for a 30 GHz scope though...
SpeedEvilThe higher end scopes, you can sell, and buy a house.
SpeedEvilAnd another house, and a boat, and a trophy wife.
azonenberg(that, and i don't think i can afford even the down payment on that scope :P)
Flea86My scope tapers off *very* sharply @ 1GHz input
azonenbergFlea86: i'm debugging a board with 100 MHz clocks on it right now
azonenbergwith a 100 MHz scope
azonenbergthey look like sine waves
Flea86Sorry, make that at any frequency above 1GHz
azonenbergi have barely enough sample resolution to tell there's a phase offset when i run the delay line all the way from min to max (500 ps phase shift)
azonenbergfeel like i'm shooting in the dark here
azonenbergcant wait for the new scope :p
azonenbergaaanyway i have to get some sleep, getting up early
Flea86azonenberg: No worries. Goodnight o/
twomixis this memistor thing a hoax
Viper-7dammit SpeedEvil
twomixne memristor skeptics ?
Viper-7now i want to make a usb mass storage driver for ESPUSB to make that scope meme image share thing :P
SpeedEviltwomix: it's over-hyped
SpeedEviltwomix: it's a component, largely unavailable
SpeedEvilViper-7: :)
twomixtoo bad that companies like HP keep hanging on
Viper-7people were talking about memristors as "coming soon" and "will redefine the industry" back in like 2000, its nearly two decades later and i still havent seen one
Viper-7EE's very own vapourware
Casperthey are that old?
SpeedEvilAnyone remember bubble memory?
CasperI tought that was like 5 years only
CasperSpeedEvil: intel's failed tam
Hoolootwowikipedia says 2008
SpeedEvilcould have been awesome if the silicon and compiler tech had been up to the design
Viper-7devised in 1971, rekindled in 2004, with experimental practical versions in 2007
jaggzACTION yawneth
SpeedEvilmultiprocessor 32 bit object oriented processor for the 1980s
SpeedEvilNever believe press releases until you can buy one and have it delivered.
CasperACTION pours some srirasha sauce in jaggz's mouth
jaggzACTION falls soundly asleep
twomixBeen watching this talk by the memristor guy Leon
twomixhe says it's the fourth component
SpeedEviltwomix: That is not really very meaningful.
twomixhe seems manic
Viper-7twomix: again, yeah thats what they were saying over a decade ago
SpeedEvilFor example, inductors are almost never used on digital ICs, because they are really hard to make.
Viper-7still not practical, so meh
SpeedEvilResistors, too, in many cases are sidelined in favour of transistors.
Viper-7reminds me of core memory, and
SpeedEvil This is an entirely unrelated link.
Viper-7like, sure, we can do digital logic using nothing but ferrites and coils, but we dont want to :P
SpeedEvilViper-7: I still can't quite get over the 400gb microsd
Viper-7theres 1TB now
Hoolootwoeh, that's pretty useless
Hoolootwoit's going to be really slow
SpeedEvilThe fastest microsds are not particularly slow
Hoolootwocompared to any other 400G SSD, that is
Flea86Hoolootwo: Apples and oranges mate
SpeedEvilbut ~25mbytes/s is common on some older ones.
SpeedEvili haven't looked at cutting edge
Hoolootwosure, I guess this is a proof-of-concept memory density thing
SpeedEvilIt's a 'you can buy them on amazon' type thing
Hoolootwolooks like it's not released yet, given that it's "Usually dispatched within 1 to 4 months"
Viper-7well i've seen 512GB and 1024GB micro-sd cards for sale, but they're probably bullshit fakes :P
cheapie"Usually ships within 2 to 4 weeks" on the US site.
Viper-7Hoolootwo: you speak like i have an SSD :P
Flea86SpeedEvil: They seem to push close to 100MB/sec now.
twomixAmazon will sell you bootleg copies
Viper-7mechanical spinners all round here still
HoolootwoI'm in the US, and that's what I see
Hoolootwoall I see when I google it is news articles
cheapieThis is the part where I hand Viper-7 a stack of "spinny drives", right? :P
SpeedEvilWait - dispatched within 1-4 months.
SpeedEvilI guess that means it's not quite there, oops
cheapie"Devices: Android smartphone & tablet" So does that mean I'm not supposed to use it with my computer? :P
Hoolootwoheh, cheapie you would
Hoolootwoyeah, it just won't work :P
twomixi ordered the Horowitz and hill book from 3rd party seller on amazon and it was a bootleg that shipped from india
Viper-7cheapie: i have a shelf full of spares already thanks :P
cheapieACTION tosses a random Cheetah at Viper-7
Viper-7literally more 200/250GB drives than i can jump over :P
Viper-7maybe a dozen 1/1.5TB ones
cheapieI don't have much of the bigger (>200GB or so) ones. Not interesting enough.
cheapiePlenty of 40GB drives, though :P
SpeedEvil'but it's a 40gb drive'
Viper-7my old server had 5TB of storage back when 200GB or 250GB were the biggest drives on the market
HoolootwoI may be buying a bunch of drives on craigslist
Viper-7my back hated me every time i took it to a LAN party :P
cheapieSpeedEvil: Here, have 240GB:
HoolootwoI think the person said 3.5TB, in mostly 74 and 150G drives
SpeedEvilHoolootwo: why?
cheapieHoolootwo: Ooh, that would be fun...
SpeedEvilconsider actual costs
Viper-7my old computer chair was held together with 8x platters from 200GB drives :D
Hoolootwoprobably going to throw them in old computers
SpeedEvilHoolootwo: power consumption alone means it's probably worth just getting one drive
Hoolootwoprobably going to get a good SGI box I can hook them up to
HoolootwoSpeedEvil, I already have an electric heater, so if I run these over the winter, it doesn't actually cut into the power bill
cheapieSpeedEvil: This sort of thing is usually *not* about trying to get the most storage for the cheapest price.
SpeedEvilheat pumps can be economic
SpeedEvilcheater: sure.
SpeedEvilcheater: some people forget to do the sums though.
Hoolootwoyeah, I agree, but I don't own the heater :( apartments kind of suck
cheapie"I'm trying to have fun here and acknowledge that it might cost a bit" is probably the best way to put it.
Hoolootwoyeah, I'm definitely not paying more than like $40 for the whole thing
Viper-7cheater != cheapie :P
Hoolootwothe guy's trying to get rid of them anywya
Viper-7i have a bunch of now pretty much entirely useless PCI SATA150 controllers
Viper-7tho my server ran a pretty sweet gigabyte motherboard that suited my ghetto setup well - 4x IDE ports (so 8 drives) and 12x SATA ports
cheapieMeh, I've always found SCSI (and, by extension, SAS) to be much more fun than anything ATA.
cheapie(although that hasn't stopped me from ending up with a ton of ATA drives as well)
HoolootwoI don't think I have any ATA drives laying around, except 2 laptop drives which are in laptops
Viper-7i've never owned a SCSI drive heh
cheapieHoolootwo: You're mostly on NVMe now or something?
Hoolootwomostly SATA, have a couple SAS
Hoolootwoso I guess if SATA is ATA then I have ATA
HoolootwoACTION thinks of ATA as PATA
cheapie...yeah, I was about to say that if two drives is "most of your drives"... :P
cheapieI don't normally make much distinction between PATA and SATA when talking about them, as they're almost the same from a software point of view.
Hoolootwoactually, by number alone, I may have more SCA+SAS than other drives
cheapieFor the same reason, I'll occasionally lump SAS and FC in with SCSI.
cheapieACTION looks at the numbers here
cheapie72 PATA, 38 SATA, 15 Parallel SCSI, 3 SAS, 3 MFM/RLL, 2 ESDI, and two PCIe SSDs (one AHCI and one NVMe). If I counted right, that is :P
cheapieThe "15 Parallel SCSI" includes 3 SCA.
Hoolootwoin terms of working drives, have 9 sata drives, but 2 aren't installed yet, 2 SAS, 6 SCA, and 2 PATA laptop drives
Hoolootwosame, "if I counted right"
cheapieThis is a slightly outdated list, but close:
Hoolootwowhat do you even do with them all
cheapieFor the most part, they sit on the shelf until I want to do something with them.
Hoolootwoheh, sounds like my calculators
password32is that your list of hdds?
cheapieIt's quite nice to be able to say "hmm, I need a drive with this capacity, this interface, etc." and usually have a drive that matches that.
cheapiepassword32: It is.
password32and no WD RED?
password32 I'm dissapointed
cheapieNope, I'm using Seagate ST2000DM001s for my NAS stuff, and no, I'm not worried about them :P
Hoolootworight now, my server has 2 WD blacks in it, but whenever one of those fails, I'm throwing in an HGST 4T drive that has a very low failure rate
Hoolootwowell, main storage server
cheapieThe ST2000DM001 is "meh at best" (the ST3000DM001 is the horrible one), but I figure that with 3 drives holding the same data, it's not a problem if one fails.
Hoolootwoyeah, as long as correlated failures aren't a problem, you're fine
Hoolootwoand you have monitoring in place
Hoolootwobut yeah, with 3 drives, even that isn't much of a problem
cheapieAbout the only way I'd lose data would be if 3 drives all failed at the same(ish) time, which is unlikely, or if something happened to both servers at the same time such as a fire or something.
cheapieThat said, if my house was to burn down, I would have *much* bigger problems than my data.
Hoolootwohmm, next time I go out of the city, I should bring with me a drive with a laptop and important server stuff backup on it
Hoolootwothanks for reminding me
cheapieHmm, I didn't even realize until now just how long I've had this setup for (2.5 years).
cheapie 9 Power_On_Hours -O--CK 075 075 000 - 22631
ScottKevillI predict cloud providers causing more natural disasters in order to get people using their services.
ScottKevillAnd that's even without the cloud - weather hint.
Auctusthis is like my 10th failed attempt to get these ws2812 LEDs working with my raspberry pi
jaggzwho draws with me
Hoolootwoidk I'm deer, not sure how to fix that
Hoolootwoin the game, it gives you a name
Hoolootwosince I'm a guest?
Viper-7jaggz: tried ?
jaggzI don't see a player "deer"
jaggzViper-7, not that I know of.. :)
jaggzI'm leading in this game.. very quickly
Sculptorthat was not snake. that was viper
jaggzViper-7, oh.. i've seen the dataset.. haven't played
Sculptordamned cat
wirts-legif i put a mug in the microwave for 10 minutes at 10% power is that the same as putting it in for 1 minute at 100% power?
jaggzno.. it's colder with the former
Viper-7for varying definitions of same
Sculptorwhy would you put a mug in the microwave
Viper-7same amount of power, so same amount of heat added to whatever, but it'll distribute much more evenly through the contents with the 10% for 10 minutes method
Sculptornot quite
Sculptor10 minute method has much higher losses
Viper-710% power just means 10% duty cycle
Viper-7so short pulses of 100% power, followed by long breaks of nothing
Sculptorfollowed by long breaks of cooling
jaggzyou possibly mess up your water structure and make unhealthy water
Viper-7well, its supposed to be 'spreading' but yeah
jaggzwhere do we see who's currently drawing?
Viper-7microwaves convert water to dihydrogen monoxide,
jaggzno they don't
Hoolootwowell so do macrowaves
password32Hoolootwo: wd gold then :P
jaggzokay I'm tired of drawing
Hoolootwoyeah, that's way to silly
ScottKevillDrawing to a close.
jaggzesp. with these dorks drawing dino's over and over
password32too be honest , I'm perfectly happy with my wd red
Viper-7jaggz: ok, sorry, they convert water to heated dihydrogen monoxide
jaggzat least it's not penises
ScottKevillSerious drawback.
Viper-7possibly even vapor
jaggzmicrowaves create dihydrogen monoxide vapor in your house
jaggzwhy's shell so stupid
jaggzcd should have an option to change to the dir of a path to a file
jaggzViper-7, oh you said what I said before I said it
jaggzcd -@ on systems that support it, present a file with extended attributes as a directory containing the file attributes
swenssonWhen calculating amp draw, and my esc / motor uses 30/each, should I write 4x30 as amp draw then (if I have 4 motors)? :O
ScottKevilljaggz: cd `dirname file-path`
jaggzswensson, esc?
jaggzScottKevill, yuck
ScottKevilldirname also appears to return the absolute path as well, which could be handy.
swenssonjaggz Electronic speed controller
jaggzswensson, write it where?
jaggzwhy are you writing it?
swenssonIm not sure about battery compsumption
ScottKevillNevermind, dirname doesn't do absolute paths. It was just a ~ expansion I saw.
jaggzScottKevill, cd -P can
wirts-legthat many amps will definitely consume a battery
ScottKevilljaggz: Err, nope. I wasn't meaning symbolic links. Just relative path to absolute path. Canonicalisation might be the term.
restorerBird|ghosted: re: outage, supposedly upgrades since out neighborhood has been using more power lately, according to them
restorerBird|ghosted: but this is also the neighboorhood (greater neighborhood, 90K+ people, that lost power entirely last month when a transformer blew and caught an oil vault on fire
restorerBird|ghosted: so it could as well be simultaneously repairs from that
restorerBird|ghosted: I'll have to look at the notice again, they say power will be out 9/15 from midnight to noon, but I can't remember if they specified the night of 9/15 or the noon of 9/15
restorerwhich makes a difference because it's a Friday/Saturday split
restorerno power until noon on a Saturday would be... annoying
Viper-7as would all friday night
Viper-7but saturday sounds likely, midnight is 12AM not 12PM
Viper-7aka midnight 9/15 is the first minute of 9/15
restorerwell, I paraphrased "9/15 from midnight to noon"
restorerall I remember at the moment is "9/15" and "midnight to noon"
stvnhello welcome
restorerwhatever, I'll check tomorrow, and then plan for it
stvnpulling cones
password32data density is insane these days
wirts-legyeah password32
password32one of these days we will have 1TB sd cards!
wirts-legi remember way back when kilobytes were king
password32I wonder how far away we are at the theorethical data density of matter?
password32probably several orders still
idonobMan, that could just about fit my music library on it now
wirts-legwell it's already getting to a point where physics at very small scale is getting in the way of maintaining data integrity
wirts-legindividual electrons are starting to actually count for something during measurement password32
Hoolootwoyeah, and error correction is also very very important
Hoolootwosince there /will/ be bad cells with any of the really really tiny stuff
jaggzACTION cosmic rays your equipment
jaggzACTION relates your decisions to the results of your random errors
jaggzthere.. you'z entangled
jaggzI think all macroscopic interactions are entanglement
wirts-legall interactions at any scale for that matter
jaggzand I think it affects all events
wirts-legdifferent presentations of the same thing. the way magnetism and electricity used to be thought of as separate.
password32wirts-leg: yeah
password32nice nick btw
jaggzwhat's it mean?
wirts-legwhat's who mean jaggz ?
wirts-legwell wirt was a man
wirts-legwho lost his leg
password32I've had a writes leg with a gem in it !
Viper-7diablo reference :P
wirts-legdid you ever put in a jewel?
password32i dont think so
password32just 180 poisen damage
wirts-legsome jewels can turn even the crappiest of weapons into something worth bashing with
password32i think for kicks I've had lifesteal too
wirts-legI remember I used to give my new characters the hellforge hammer and they'd run with that until about level 20 or so
password32thats smart
password32I lost my install though
password32or rather it got corrupt overtime
ewonghaven't touched diablo2 in eons...
password32my char was 1/3 way done one highest difficulty
ewongjust out of curiosity.. (hypothetically speaking) if one doesn't have the schematics for a pcb.. and there's a busted mlcc .. how would I fix it? since I ddon't even know the original cap's info
ewongand since all these mlcc look similar..
password32you figure out why they were using it
password32no code left on the cap?
ewongsay it's busted.. blown
wirts-legif i put a nine volt battery in series between a speaker and a wall socket will it play Thunderstruck?
ewongit'll probably blow?
ewongwow.. that sounds scary
wirts-legcause you know. that would be AC/DC.
ewongoh... groan..
bart416_wirts-leg, I think it'd play T.N.T.
bart416_Damn you Bose
bart416_Why do your headphones sound so good :|
bart416_I'm listening to this song for the first time with my new headphones, suddenly hear loads of background instruments I never heard before
bart416_What the fuck did they do to fit that good of a speaker in such a small shell :|
bart416_Withcraft I tell you!
Hoolootwoidk, I can barely hear back in black over the hum of the servers
Hoolootwostill sounds good enough
bart416_Hoolootwo, ah these are noise cancelling, lol
bart416_I can't even hear colleagues chatting in the office.
Hoolootwoah, I'm probably annoying my roommate :P
bart416_Hoolootwo, and YouTube autoplay just selected a funny song considering this weekend's events:
HoolootwoI don't use youtube anymore
bart416_Yes, that's the one used as background music track to all the nuking in the documentary Trinity and Beyond xD
Hoolootwothey got all annoying
p0g0_ACTION cues up Country Joe and the Fish "Please Don't Drop That H Bomb On Me" (1966)
bart416_p0g0_, you're doing it all wrong
bart416_Tom Lehrer - So Long, Mom
p0g0_yes, I'm off to drop the bomb so don't wait up for me....
wirts-legbaby woke up
p0g0_His MLF is also germane
wirts-leglater gater
p0g0_bart416_: and his Verner Von Braun too.
bart416_lol, that one was brilliant
bart416_My favourite of his is still Poisoning Pigeons in the Park
p0g0_It's not my department...
bart416_That one is so random, and so absurd
p0g0_I'm fond of the Masochism Tango and Pollution.
bart416_ah yes
bart416_If you visit american city
bart416_you will find it very pretty
bart416_Just two things of which you must be ware
bart416_don't drink the water or breath the air :P
p0g0_just don't drink the water
bart416_Know them all by heart
p0g0_He ended up teaching comic opera at UC Santa Cruz, iirc
bart416_Uhm, didn't he teach math?
p0g0_at Harvard, yes
p0g0_But he retired from that
bart416_You can find recordings of him playing piano during math lectures
bart416_Ah this one is also brilliant:
bart416_LOL some guys from Samsung borrowed the mould design I proposed in an article :')
bart416_Wooohooo, something I published gets used ^ _ ^
p0g0_send them a bill?
bart416_Uhm no :|
bart416_If you publish it its free game, that's how it works.
p0g0_not neccesarily, "all rights reserved" & "copyright"...
bart416_Nope, that ain't how you do it in academia
p0g0_ah, yes the publish/perish game.
bart416_I don't really play that one, heh
SpeedEvilMy sole 'proper' publication is a cite of a usenet article i wrote in a patent
bart416_p0g0_, I'm paid by the department, no external funding.
bart416_I have 0 commercial interests
SpeedEvilActually, arguably comments on medical journals apply, though I have not yet gone through peer review onany
password32bart416_: link to your mould design?
bart416_password32, I'd have to find the article again, it's mentioned as a paragraph in some conference paper I presented at IMAPS2015
bart416_It was simply a method to get a large variety of strains on a single mould when you're working on stretchable electronics.
bart416_You essentially make something elliptical
bart416_You don't start using this type of mould design by accident, since it's a nightmare to machine
password32mould as in something that gives form or something that grows?
p0g0_could be both...
password32self forming cheese?
ThePendulumI like when I want to order a thing from ali, and I end up ordering 18 things, and then the one thing I actually wanted doesn't ship
ChinesiumThePendulum: That's how they get you
ChinesiumGuys, what's a reasonable price for a ThinkPad X230T in pristine condition, i5-3320M, Seagate ST500LM020 SSD, Win7 + 10 licenses incl. 8GB RAM, IPS Touch, nearly new 67+ extended battery, dock, and brand new power slice? [UK]
ThePendulumzenguy, had an epiphany? :P
zenguyyah that and some of their customers were having sex in the alley behind my house in a car
zenguynot really crack though this is the northwest it's meth here
SpeedEvilChinesium: ebay
SpeedEvilChinesium: 'completed listings'
ChinesiumSpeedEvil: There are barely any
ChinesiumAnd none in comparable condition
ChinesiumThese things are rare as hell around these parts
SpeedEvilI'll give you 3.50.
ChinesiumI was thinking £325
ChinesiumBecause that's around what it would cost me to get all the shit together individually
ChinesiumThat's not got an SSD and only half the RAM, screen's in shite condition, and there's heavy signs of use
SpeedEvilIME great condition often doesn't boostprice hugely
ChinesiumIt boosts value to me
ChinesiumI'll happily pay 25-30 extra just for the box
SpeedEviloh - you mean buying
bart416_"The display has a slight white spots, but not disrupting or are striking." <-- Someone sat on top of it
bart416_I had this happen to my thinkpad
bart416_A stupid lady went and sat on top of my backpack on the bus :S
Sculptordamage is proportional to the stupid lady weight
bart416_Nah, more to me shoving her away before she could rest her whole weight on it
bart416_That being said, the higher end thinkpads still have fairly strong displays
ChinesiumIt's gotta last me at least four years of uni
p0g0_Chinesium: fwiw, often has refurb laptops at a very reasonable price.
p0g0_Tho the selection varies from day to day
Chinesiumnewegg stopped doing the X230T a while back, and they always shaft you if you're in the UK
p0g0_why the shaft?
Chinesiumpricing, they seem to go with dollar=pound
p0g0_And, in my experience, they may reoffer that model, maybe. So they charge you a dollar # in pounds? That seems crazy.
ChinesiumYeah, so if it's $300, it'll be £300+shipping
ChinesiumWelcome to the UK, where everyone and their dog fucks you
ChinesiumPlus I'd possibly have to pay import fees depending on where they ship it from
p0g0_OK OK, my mistake. Condolences too.
password32prices are bad here too
password32electronics is ok
bart416_Chinesium, checked amazon already?
bart416_I know it sounds cliche but they're ok for most computer hardware, they screw over the seller instead :D
password32but lots of the more obscure things , like I can only get shitspensive medling clay thats like $8/500g , but in america you can get like 25lb for $40 , shipped
ChinesiumAmazon is £350+
bart416_350 GBP won't get you much laptop to be frank about it.
bart416_At least not if you want a touch screen with it
ChinesiumThis laptop that I'm using right now cost the best part of a grand, and I bloody hate it
p0g0_Chinesium: I just looked, newegg has a couple of x230s, one @ 389, the other at 159...
bart416_My mid range - high end thinkpad set me back roughly 800 bucks.
password32I'm gonna do a ryzen build soon , desktop , and I'm hard pressed if i can do it under $700
Chinesiump0g0_: I need the T, not the standard
password32well , sure i could trim on some specs , but yeah
bart416_But it has survived a rough 3 years out in the field (factory halls etc.)
p0g0_the $389 is a tablet, is that what the T is?
ChinesiumViper-7: No keyboard though
ChinesiumI don't want a damn convertible
ChinesiumI want a pen, and a screen
password32a tablet?
password32sounds like you want a windows tablet?
p0g0_actually both offers are the T
Viper-7heck, the newer model
Viper-7Chinesium: docking keyboard
password32does the asus transformer line still exist?
password32those were amazeballs , i had the tf300 prime , back when it was still android based
ChinesiumViper-7: Does it support TRUE pen input?
ChinesiumIt does but it's extra
ChinesiumAnd it doesn't dock
password323:2 is an odd aspect ratio
password32a bit more square than 16:9
jan64Apparently pretty nice for working on.
ChinesiumI like 16:9
ChinesiumEveryone hates on me for it
ChinesiumBut my favourite show is in 16:9
password32i would like a huge 48:9 screen :D
password32or 16:3
ChinesiumThat's ridiculous
password32for setups like this , without bevels :D
Viper-7both have a docking keyboard option.
Viper-7pen is active (pressure sensitive) but not a wacom digitizer or such
Viper-7they're by far the best new device in that price range i know of - for something with similar features and with digitizer from eg samsung, you're looking at more like $800
password32i think you want an active pen
password32tis is not an ugly setup actually
password32unlimited 2 in 1 fun , :D
password32got to go
Viper-7my 12" samsung tablet has a smaller screen, docking keyboard that isnt as nice to use, larger 14Ah battery, wacom digitizer and is an i5, not a celeron - but its years old and is still worth like $1400
Viper-7the hi13 has a bigger, higher res screen, is almost as fast, lasts much longer on its smaller battery, and is under $400 - the only real downside is the lack of the proper digitizer
Viper-7but the digitizer isnt worth $1000 :P
bart416_ <-- I'll take one of these :P
Viper-7also its worth noting you can buy the chuwi docking keyboard for under $50 separately
Viper-7if i damage the keyboard on mine its like $350 to replace :S
ChinesiumYes please bart416_
ChinesiumViper-7: Yeah, but there's import duty on that shit
bart416_ACTION drooooools
bart416_That's an even smaller form factor than those Agilent Field Foxes
tomeaton17If address ack is 1 then the device acknowledged what I sent it?
bart416_Usually acknowledgment is pulling the line low in most protocols
bart416_Easier to detect that :)
tomeaton17bart416_ so the last bit on the red line would be an ack?
bart416_tomeaton17, that looks an awful lot like I2C
tomeaton17It is
bart416_That's a stop
ChinesiumIt disturbs me that you recognise I2C bart416_
bart416_ tomeaton17 :)
bart416_That explains it fairly well
bart416_Chinesium, how is that disturbing?
bart416_I find it far more disturbing that I was able to recognise QAM encoding at glance on a scope screenshot, lol
bart416_*QAM modulation
Chinesiumbart416_: You recognised a protocol on a photo of two scope traces
bart416_I2C is incredibly common :S
ChinesiumI still wouldn't have a clue what it looks like
rfsharki can connected gpio with sma connector?
bart416_rfshark, why not?
bart416_Just make sure you fall within the voltage and current spec
ChinesiumIt's GP, of course yo can :D
rfsharkgpio pin <——> sma antenna : this is possible?
rfsharkChinesium: how can i do it?
ChinesiumIt's a general purpose pin, and a surface mount antenna
rfsharkthere is a connector?
Chinesiumrfshark: I'm sure a dupont to SMA exists
bart416_Just grab a SMA connector and solder two wires to it :S
ChinesiumEverything exists
ketastabletop rf design?
ketasunshielded :P
rfsharkthere is a connector?
Chinesiumrfshark: An SMA connector, yes
bart416_I'm still looking for a flux capacitor to flux inductor connector
rfsharkthere is a connector to connect gpio pin and sma male.
Chinesiumbart416_: Ah, you need a flux link
ketaswhat was the 3-ended tube in bttf anyway
Chinesium"GPIO pin" isn't a thing
ChinesiumIt's a concept
ketasi once read something about it
Chinesiumketas: A flux capacitor
ketasmore like where did they get the idea
rfsharki find gpio female and SMA female connector
bart416_ketas, it's fun to transmit at 10 MHz directly with MCU pins
bart416_I mean you can kind a do it xD
ketasbart416_: bitbanging directly to antenna?
bart416_We tried it in an anechoic chamber back in college, if you pump enough power into it you can get it sort of to work, lol
bart416_Even more fun I found was making a rotary spark gap transmitter though :D
ketaswtf chamber
ChinesiumYou mean a distributor cap?
Chinesiumketas: anechoic
ChinesiumNot sure why they'd use an anecho, when you should be using an RF tank
bart416_Chinesium, the anechoic chambers are usually pretty good faraday cages
ketasoh that room
ketasi didn't know they can be built for rf
ketasnot just sound
bart416_They impregnate the cones with carbon powder to make them conductive
ketasso it would affect rf as well?
ChinesiumMy uni has an RF tank
ketasthere would be no reflections there then?
ketasand no signal pass
ChinesiumWhole thing is built out of metal, has ground connections, only two input holes, which are ~30mm dia
ChinesiumI think they said it'll sink 7500W or something
ketasafter which it will burn down?
ChinesiumAfter which it starts to leak
ChinesiumThey use it for radar testing
ketasit turns rf into heat, right?
ketasenergy has to go somewhere
ChinesiumIt turns it into electricity, which it sinks
ketasoh indeed
ChinesiumBut it's pretty sweet
ChinesiumIt's hiding in the back of the RF lab
rfsharki can connect to raspberry pi gpio pin?
Chinesiumrfshark: You can connect anything to anything else
ChinesiumBut yeah, they're easy to connect
rfsharkwhat you mean about You can connect anything to anything else?
ketasi had to search for it
ketassince i heard it was used
ketasegg cartons to make echos go away
ketasapparently it has some bad effect
ketasworks, but is crappy
Chinesiumrfshark: It's just metal
rfsharkChinesium: metal
rfsharkok thanks
CtrlCWould a microphone work if it is connected via 50 meters wire to a PC?:/
Bird|ghostedCtrlC, what kind of mic?
SpeedEvilCtrlC: to some degree, likely
CtrlCAny kind. idk yet. Something like a headset mic maybe.
HrdwrBoBalso what kindof wire
CtrlCBird|ghosted, ^
Bird|ghostednot sure about headset mics
HrdwrBoBshielded decent quality wire, sure
CtrlCany kind of wire.
listemics have longer wires that that in stage use
Bird|ghostedbut an actual pro-audio mic + a decent cable + proper phantom power will do that no-sweat
CtrlCThe power will only be supplied by the PC.
HrdwrBoB ta-da
Bird|ghostedCtrlC, they make pro-audio interface boxes for PCs
ChinesiumCtrlC: You can't do it with an unbalanced 3.5mm jack, but balanced XLR or USB will work fine
Bird|ghostedyeah -- I suspect the voltage drop on the +5V on a PC mic line would become quite excessive at that distance
CtrlCHow much such thing will cost?:/
ChinesiumA USB DAC is $2, a length of Cat6 is $10, connectors are a couple bucks
Bird|ghostedChinesium, wrong way around
Bird|ghostedyou need an ADC not a DAC
Bird|ghostedand Cat6 is the wrong stuff for mic cabling
ChinesiumDigital Audio Chip
ChinesiumIt's got an A/DC and a D/AC in it
Chinesiumand Cat6 is fine for USB
Bird|ghostedCtrlC, also, what the heck sort of audio quality are you expecting?
CtrlCBird|ghosted, Enough to know what people are saying.
Bird|ghostedok, comms grade audio
Bird|ghostedthat makes things somewhat easier
Bird|ghostedare you trying to make some sort of intercom or something?
CtrlCidk what that is.
python476anybody saw this video ?
CtrlCI'm a noob on electronic/hardware area.
EuroTrashPrivate eye, ey?
python476fixing hdd controller broken pins with 0.1mm wire, so cute
CtrlCPrivate ear. :P
CtrlCBird|ghosted, assuming that I need a mic that can record the range of 10 meters, what should I exactly do?
Bird|ghostedCtrlC, dunno man. long range mics are not my specialty
dukeHm, I have a bit older stereo audio amplifier I use, from time to time one of the channels either gets really quiet or muffled, any clue what could cause that?
dukeIts not a tube amp.
Bird|ghostedduke, have you tried tracing the signals through? and is it consistently the same channel, or does the problem switch between channels?
SpeedEvilduke: unplug and replyg all the connections, spray contact cleaner everywher
dukeIt's a Audion A-25.
dukeBird|ghosted: It switches, sometimes left, sometimes right.
dukeSpeedEvil: I guess thats one thing I'll try, open up the casing and clean it up.
Bird|ghostedduke, can you get schematics for it?
dukeNah, transistor
dukeBird|ghosted: I'm not sure actually, need to do some googling
acid3both channels?
dukeyea, not always the same
dukeAnyways. have to go for now, doctors appointment, I'll be back in some hours, will open it up then and report
duke < really, 15€ for an owners manual? :D
CtrlCChinesium, Can you please tell me step by step what to do?:/
acid3you need a service manual, there will be no schematics in user manual
ChinesiumCtrlC: Buy a mic, and an audio card, build a USB cable of the length you need
CtrlCJust that? Chinesium Does it need any specific audio card?
ChinesiumNope, any USB audio card will work
ChinesiumYou'll want STP cable, and depending on how many pairs you've got, will probably want the shield as ground, half the pairs as a +5V/GND pair, and the other half as D-/GND and D+/GND
acid3there is a limit of only couple meters for usb cable
CtrlCChinesium, I understood nothing from your last message.
Chinesiumacid3: is there?
ChinesiumAh shit, five metres
ChinesiumYou'll need active extenders then, I forgot about that
ChinesiumYou can use five*five metre cables apparently
ChinesiumAbove that
ChinesiumSend it over the network
OdinYggdMoo is good.
OdinYggdHis name was Big Mac, and we had a wonderful summer together. But when the weather turned colder, we said our goodbyes- for he would soon be in my freezer and sizzling on the stove all winter
bart416_OdinYggd, I just zapped a multimeter in an impressive way
OdinYggdPics or it didnt happen
python476gif tolerated
drac_boyany of you know if z80 is probably the best "make the circuits yourself and run homebrews off it" or theres rather other alternatives?
drac_boyACTION is just a bit curious for now
python476who loves AvE videos ?
python476this guy is nuts in the best way possible (although he doesn't make sense 100% of the time)
TutatorACTION is hoping this multimeter was nuked by a flux capacitor or some manner of Japanese animatron. Is bart416_ making a power point?
Flea86drac_boy: I would've thought z80 got squeezed out by 8051 and/or AVR?
python476what's the fastest low tech way to craft n metal pins with a certain pitch for a SMD ?
Tutatorpython476: copper staples??
Flea86drac_boy: And then both of those are now being squeezed out by ARM :P
bart416_OdinYggd, I'll try to remember tomorrow.
python476I meant a series of pins nicely parallel
bart416_We hooked it up to a 380V 3 phase VFD xD
python476but thanks for the idea, I didnt even think about this Tutator
bart416_DT830 vs. power grid
python476Tutator: and google is having fun on me too
bart416_Those Fluke videos of DT830s exploding seem very accurate.
drac_boyflea86 hm...any idea on a site that would have any 8051 schematics and homebrews? (including basic graphic output)
drac_boyif not just had to ask :)
Tutatorpython476: if you ever need to find them ... try a marine supplier
bart416_drac_boy, 8051 schematics in which sense?
bart416_There are a couple of nice books on the 8051 architecture and possible extensions to it
Flea86drac_boy: Well, there's a few sites around.. has a discontinued design, as do I
ScottKevillACTION casts a fleating glance.
Flea86I'm sure there are others around.. I've not really looked lately
drac_boybart..well..sdram interface..some sort of expansion bus (even if proprietary for itself rather than eg isa)..making a lo-color terminal output..these sort of circuits?
Flea86too busy playing with FPGAs :P
ChinesiumFlea I actually need a custom FPGA for something but I forget what
Flea86I've interfaced an 8051 to sdram and VGA, but that was a loong time ago now..
bart416_drac_boy, you have 8051s (mostly very old though) where the internal bus was brought out through a few pins.
bart416_On those you could slap a lot of extensions.
Flea86Dallas and Silabs have modern equivalents of those bart416
ChinesiumI think I wanted to take the video signal from a BBC Micro-B and pump it to HDMI
ChinesiumBut I can do that with an RPI and an ADC
ScottKevillYou could, but it'd lag.
Flea86Chinesium: Or an Ohm board ;)
ChinesiumA what
ChinesiumThat's a pi0
Chinesiumbut it's not
drac_boyflea86 yeah I suspected you didn't want to play with actual 7400's etc when you had a fpga instead :P
ChinesiumI found it flea
Flea86Ok :)
bart416_<Flea86> Dallas and Silabs have modern equivalents of those bart416 <-- really? :D
bart416_<3 SiLabs MCUs
bart416_8051s running at 100 MHz with single clock cycle / instruction get interesting :D
drac_boyACTION still would love it if someone would reintroduce one of the long-missing beagleboard cape...or at least finally offer a ready-to-use monitor card for any rpi generation -_-
Flea86drac_boy: When I was younger, I had fun building embedded systems on breadboard, but for some reason I find breadboards terribly messy now
ChinesiumI want this new laptop already
drac_boyflea86 heh fair enough :)
ChinesiumFlea86: Oh, I'll send you pics throughout my course, I have to breadboard everything, and no, I'm not neat
password32drac_boy: a gpu for the rpi?
bart416_Flea86, where's the love for 6 solderless breadboards + a mess of logic analyser cables? :(
Flea86bart416_: Indeed. You should see what I did with a 150MHz single-cycle 8051..
bart416_Actually you could use an FPGA to make a GPU for a RaspberryPi
bart416_It wouldn't be that difficult.
drac_boypassword no..more of better output support..unless the only way to do that is to literally bypass the entire onboard gpu which in that case then I dunno if I ever want the rpi at all anyhow :-/
password32bart416_: how wil rpi talk to gpu?
bart416_password32, that's the bigger issue
Drakonitepassword32, maybe some of those pins sticking out of it?
bart416_Drakonite, you need fairly high memory bandwidth
Drakonitedon't newer raspi's have a GPU though?
bart416_The GPIO sucks too much for that
Chinesiumdrac_boy: wdym by a monitor card?
Flea86I thought all raspi SoC chips had a GPU?
Drakonitereally? ... don't people regularly drive TFT displays off of those?
drac_boydrakonite they've always had a gpu..the problem is many rpi's have very poor physical outputs at all
ChinesiumYes, you can drive a display, from the GPU
drac_boyflea86 likewise
password32the GPU already on there is quite capable
password32it does full hd no problem
ChinesiumAnd HMDI-to-X adapters are dirt cheap
bart416_password32, meh :P
drac_boychinesium except they both 1. never function as well as the native port and 2. can't be used without needing to find a second wall outlet
Chinesiumdrac_boy: Yes they can
ChinesiumWhat do you wanna convert to?
EuroTrashWhat the hell are you guys wanting to hook up anyhow?
Flea86bart416_: Yeah, no jtag, no connectivity options (you need to add those) but apart from that it's pretty cool..
ScottKevillI feel like there should be some kind of battle between Chinesium and EuroTrash.
bart416_I've ordered two of them
ChinesiumI'm not chinese!
Flea86bart416_: I didn't say they wouldn't work ;)
bart416_Heheh I know
ScottKevillThere's also an "asdofindia" in the room.
bart416_+ already have a xilinx jtag adapter
EuroTrashAnd I probably own about 100x as much chinesium stuff as I do Euro-made stuff
EuroTrashKinda hard to get European-made stuff nowadays
Flea86bart416_: and if I can get shenzhen-local pricing I bet I can do something similar with my board..
ScottKevillThat seems to be all.
ScottKevillYes, I did just read through 800+ names.
password32this NAS had a nice 1 week vacation
password32but now it has to work
password32its been online an hour and 200GB have been copied to it
drac_boychinesium well in that case heres the long answer: care to find a wallwart-free one that would somehow turn hdmi into standard dp (including use of 5.1-sending spdif and aux non-video data pins altogether) .. and that it wouldn't complain about the use of a self-powered dp-vga cable (which pretty much works via any laptop/pcie sources anyway)
drac_boyflea86 remind me again as I seem to forget now..whats your project nowaday?
SpeedEvildrac_boy: hdcp is a bitch
password32dp is anything but standard
ScottKevillNice to see different FPGA dev boards becoming more common on AliExpress.
ScottKevillNot so nice for Flea86.
ScottKevillBut his looks a lot more useful.
password32depends , it could liven up the market
DrakoniteScottKevill, any actually worth using though?
drac_boyscottkevill :P I'm still unsure about dev boards as they always have a weird featurelist (including too many onboard buttons and no option to detach the low-res lcd panel in some cases)
ScottKevillDrakonite: Sometimes all you want are lots of IOs. :)
drac_boybut to our own nitpicks ;)
DrakoniteScottKevill, yes, this is true for me
ScottKevillThis is one I bought years ago:
teratoma@peterdaou i cant even plug the # into verrit and find the card or source url, that would be nice
DrakoniteI've heard people say plenty of bad things about the cheap FPGAs on ebay/ali, and not sure about them though... been wanting to play with FPGAs at some point
teratomaack wrong window
ScottKevillWas fairly soon after the Spartan 6 was released, I think.
ScottKevillTons of features.
Flea86ScottKevill: Yeah. Also note the quantity of boards available...
OdinYggdFor some reason I read digimon in ScottKevill's link and went wait what
Flea86I'll be honest with you - those kind of quantities allow very good component prices in general
ScottKevillFlea86: I assumed AliExpress sellers were always lying about their quantities available.
drac_boydrakonite the funny thing is if you wanted do a bit of high-speed fpga and didn't want to worry about using 'existing' pc chips as well you could always ask xilinx .. they have some interesting fpga+pcie combo things (dunno if you would call it half-fpga/half-hardwired or something else tho)
ScottKevillI seem to recall a rather cheap Lattice FPGA PCIe board.
Drakonitedrac_boy, would would I care about PC/PCIe to play with FPGAs?
Drakonite*why would
ScottKevillDrakonite: If you wanted fast data between PC and FPGA.
drac_boydrakonite by doing whatever you want to on the fpga side but reuse a pcie-to-gige chip if you didn't want to deal with all the stack/mac/etc trouble
DrakoniteI don't care about PC or gige or any of that
ScottKevillOh, drac_boy is referring to hosting PCIe cards.
Flea86ScottKevill: That pricing doesn't really add up.. Digikey's price for that FPGA costs more than your entire linked board!
drac_boyin my case my slowly-ongoing design is actually fpga & pci altogether .. as I'll prefer to use some basic av related chips without having to try find custom interfaces and everything
ScottKevillI was talking about FPGA being a PCIe card.
ScottKevillFlea86: I didn't link any AliExpress boards. Are you talking about the Enterpoint one?
drac_boyscottkevill ah .. you probably want to check with Analog .. they still sell things like eg "4x TigerSHARC to PCIe" .. sorta like an user-customizable massive dsp card
Flea86scottKevill: Sorry about that, I meant bart416_'s link
ScottKevillFlea86: Could the chips be legit?
Flea86scottKevill: If you're referring to Lattice's Versa board, yeah Lattice had a big sale on those
ScottKevillOr could they be lower end models rebadged?
bart416_<Flea86> scottKevill: Sorry about that, I meant bart416_'s link <-- Yeah that's my point
bart416_It's dirty cheap :S
bart416_They must have made those in massive volumes
Flea86bart416_: Let me know if they work? If you haven't tried them already.
Flea86I agree
bart416_Waiting for them
ScottKevillI see the Spartan 7 was only released recently.
Flea86iirc Spartan6 is no longer supported by Vivado?
ScottKevillbart416_: Oh, you ordered some, sweet.
Flea86only ISE?
ScottKevillYeah, never supported by Vivado, sadly.
ScottKevillI would have liked to play with SystemVerilog.
drac_boyACTION will admit that I would had loved a well-supported bus that was a bit slower and much simplified than pci itself but just mehs and simply looks forward to trying to wire a few pci chips when that day comes :->
Flea86Might be the fact those chips were rendered obselete that could be why
drac_boy(thankfully I don't want to bother with pcie heh)
Flea86even though they really aren't..
ScottKevillHow realistic is interfacing with USB-C now?
Flea86and so dirt-cheap surplus city
tomeaton17Anyone have experience with the ADS1015? I am trying to read from the config register and my LSB is always 0xFF. This seems wrong can anyone confirm?
Johnsenhelp mr flea :p
Johnsenand hello
Johnsenin vhdl can you ignore bits in an if statement, like if input(7 downto 0) = '1101xxx1' ?
Johnsenmaking it valid no matter what the 3 x'es are
Flea86Johnsen: iirc, yeah that's a 'dont care' symbol
Johnsenso no AND and mask needed?
Johnsenits been ages ago i fpga's
Flea86It's been a while since I've used that directive, but I would say no it should work as-is
JyZyXELwhats the simplest way to make a 5V 350mA LED-strip light only when it's dark?
bobo1on1get one of those sensors that do it for you
JyZyXELwhat are they called
acid3you can make it yourself
bobo1on1not sure
JyZyXELim sure there are some genius ideas how to convert light into a switch
bart416_I have 4 installations of Matlab on this computer it seems :')
acid3if you have any to-3 package transistor
JyZyXELor the lack of sunlight into a switch
Sculptoracid3, that sounds like a great idea
JyZyXELacid3: sure i do have a bunch of those
jpa-JyZyXEL: etc.
JyZyXELheh, maybe i'll find a photoresistor if i look hard enough in my parts bin :p
acid3if you have any to-3 transistor, it can act as a photoresistor if you will remove metal cover from it
HaxxaHas there ever been a case where an amateur radio user has been arrested for outputting higher than the spectrum regulation limits?
Johnsenif u file too much its broken tho
Johnsenno idea, but i thought hams are regulation suckers :p
Johnsenthey are for other ppl, but not for themselves
acid3Haxxa: I have got two GU-5B in my linear ) and never had any problems )
Haxxasay If I just started outputting 100w over a large part of the spectrum what would likely happen - does the givt even monitor these things
Johnsenother hams would track you down :p
Johnsenif you just transmit following rulew (correct width, correct behavior and modulation) but more power noone would care
Johnsenif you start messing around doing wider signals and transmitting stuff thats not proper mode and with callsigns, then i think you're in trouble
Inari-How do I build a lamp that emits darkness
Johnsenuse a blacklight :p
drac_boylnari by building a lamp but not insert any bulb!
Inari-It emits nothing then :D
Johnsenmake your own black hole
Inari-I wonder if you could actually emit something invisible though, that somehow cancels the effect of light. Either by somehow deflecting light, or something else
Johnsentoo much physics (the complicated kind) and voodoo, i have no answers
ScottKevillJyZyXEL: But when it's dark, it lights up, so it's no longer dark...
JyZyXELnaw, the detector doesn't need to be that close to the source, which is only couple watts anyways
azonenbergcheapie: lol you have a lot of drives
azonenbergI ran a pretty large fleet for a while, back in 2011 or so i adminned a server for my department that had 19 1TB hdds
tpw_rulesInari-: there are interference systems
ScottKevillazonenberg: I think you can have petabytes in 1 or 2U now. :)
tpw_rulesHaxxa: yes, they do get angry
tpw_rulesthey don't arrest you, but they fine you
Inari-tpw_rules: What do those use?
tpw_rulesInari-: well since light is waves, you can create a phase-shifted signal and cancel it out
Inari-Hm, interesting
ScottKevillIf the device can throw out a blanket, that might work pretty well.
tpw_rulesyeah that would work a lot better than this
Inari-Blankets aren't invisible :D
ScottKevillThey are in the dark.
tpw_rulesnow i expect a light canceling lightbulb is a lot more difficult to manufacture than noice canceling headphones, but in _theory_, it could be done
tpw_rulesyou'd probably have to assume the room was only being illuminated by one laser of a known wavelength though
azonenbergScottKevill: this was 4U of 3.5" drives, and just front panel (not top loading like the backblaze monsters)
azonenbergit was supposed to be 20 drives but one was DOA and we didnt have time to wait for a spare
ScottKevillazonenberg: nod, I saw a recent announcement about SSDs.
azonenbergso we left the extra slot as a hot spare from then on
azonenbergThese days my primary storage system at home is a raid1 of two 4T drives that are only about half full
azonenbergthen my desktop and the wife's both have fairly small raid1 drives for the OS and configuration but the bulk of large stuff is on the NAS
azonenbergACTION needs to upgrade that box to 10gbe
ScottKevill20 3.5" drives must be nice and heavy.
tpw_rulesinsert zfs shill
azonenbergScottKevill: yes, it was heavy lol
Inari-tpw_rules: I wonder if you'd have any success by cancelling random wavelenghts :P Maybe not inducing pure darkness, but an interesting effect perhaps
azonenbergi had to carry a cardboard box full of them from the secretary's office to the basement server room
tpw_rulesi think light goes so fast it wouldn't be noticeable
azonenbergthat was kinda terrifying, knowing i had something like $5K of drives in my hand
ScottKevillHaha, and sensitive to vibration.
tpw_rulesunless you're perfectly coherent with it, it's gonna cancel like 3 waves which are like 1um
Inari-I'd have assumed you'd at least get a dimming effect
Johnsensensitive pfft
tpw_rulesbut it's not like as easy as accidentally doing it with sound
Johnsenwhen i was a teenager i transported HDDs on the baggage carrier of my bicycle
Johnseni did wrap them in a soft towel :p
ScottKevillJohnsen: Did you have a cowbell?
Johnseni had a bicycle bell
azonenbergMy plan in the next few months, maybe give myself for xmas? is to build a new workstation with a 10gbit NIC, dual socket xeons, and probably 128 GB of RAM
ScottKevillThere goes my red-riding hood visual.
azonenbergI run so many VMs that i routinely OOM with 32GB
azonenbergand two or three copies of FPGA dev environments for different projects are not exactly light either
tpw_rulesdual socket?
tpw_ruleshell yea numa life
azonenbergvivado probably uses 1GB per instance even when idle
ScottKevillazonenberg: Using an E3 at the moment?
azonenbergtpw_rules: i don't think there's any single socket mobos that can do >64GB of RAM
azonenbergScottKevill: right now? i5 lol
ScottKevillAhh okay. ECC all the way.
azonenbergwith 32GB of non-ECC DDR3
tpw_rulesunless you're not using a real os, like macos
azonenbergI need an upgrade :p
azonenbergtpw_rules: debian
ScottKevillBut E3 until recently, topped out at 32GB.
sdlnvI need to power two 5V 5mW laser modules from 12V, can I just treat them like LEDs? (Put 2 in series and add a resistor) Is there something special I should know about lasers?
azonenbergsdlnv: they're super sensitive to overcurrent and ESD iirc
tpw_rulesdoes linux properly do zram yet
tpw_ruleslike the best os
azonenbergi think they act like normal LEDs within the rated range but die easily when beyond
azonenbergBut don't quote me on that :p
HaxxaCan I use my tv antenna outlet to plug other radio gear like an arduino rf module or would the impedance be to high?
sdlnvMaybe I'll oversize a little bit the resistor then
HaxxaAlso Can I send usinging my tv antenna?
azonenbergsdlnv: i'd do some research into proper driving of laser diodes, and also look up what kind of PSU if any the module has in it
azonenbergif it has an integrated driver oyu handle it very differently
azonenbergScottKevill: yeah i was looking at dual e5-1650 v4 last time i priced it out
ScottKevillazonenberg: Things are looking interesting now with AMD, with lots of ECC slot support, and lots of PCIe lanes.
azonenbergbut idk if thats the best option now
azonenbergI need enough pcie for a GPU that can do CAD work on dual 4K displays (I have one 4K plus dual 1080p right now but when one of the 1080s dies i'll replace both with a second 4K) plus a dual 10gbit NIC and ideally room for expansion on top of that
tpw_rules this does
tpw_rulesif you want to spend too much money
azonenbergLike an FPGA card or something
tpw_rulesalthough it's sucky on pcie
ScottKevillI was more thinking PCIe for NVME drives.
azonenbergScottKevill: So, i'm actually a bit on the fence there
azonenbergOne option is to try and put a nice big pcie ssd internally
ScottKevillOr lots of small ones. :)
azonenbergThe other option is to throw in a 40gbit NIC and run fiber to my NAS, then put a pcie ssd there :p
Johnseneat more fibers
azonenbergheck even 10gbit would be faster than sata
tpw_rulesazonenberg: have you tried zswap?
azonenbergtpw_rules: i dont use swap, at all
azonenbergi prefer to have enough ram everything is resident
tpw_rulesthat's what zswap is lol
azonenbergif i had the budget, i'd omit the hard drive too
ScottKevillazonenberg: I run most of my VMs on my NAS, and either ssh or VNC to them.
tpw_rulesit keeps it resident but compressed
tpw_rulesalso i did that once. it was fun
azonenbergScottKevill: i am looking at building a dedicated VM box in the not too distant future
azonenbergBut short term i need a workstation that can do what i need with everything local
ScottKevillThen the storage is local to them (and hence the IOPS).
azonenbergScottKevill: my VMs are using local storage
azonenbergthe NAS is for basically everything else
ScottKevillI have had trouble getting things like clipboard working with KVM and VNC though.
azonenbergTypical use case: stitching a 500 Mpix panorama in Hugin while running formal verification on one FPGA design and place-and-route on another
azonenbergWhile you have six VMs running in the background
tpw_rulesthere's also x2go
ScottKevillIf I VNC directly to KVM's output, the graphics is fast, but no clipboard. If I run a VNC server in the Windows VM guest, I get clipboard but painfully slow graphics.
azonenbergACTION currently runs vmware locally
ScottKevillTried using Spice rather than VNC, but that was also slow.
ScottKevillErr, not the simulator Spice.. heh.
acid3JyZyXEL: done?
ScottKevillHaven't tried PCI-passthrough yet, which supposedly gives fast graphics with full accelerated Direct3D / OpenGL support.
ScottKevillRequires a dedicated graphics card for the VM.
MikeeePCI-passthrough is a wonderful thing
Johnseni have something funny
Sculptorprom photo/
Johnsenwhen i'm in an OS and then i reboot to another OS, and in that OS i start a virtualbox, i can see fragments of gfx i had in the other OS from before reboot
Johnseni think video memory doesn't get cleared during reboot and virtualbox shows parts of the noncleared videomemory
Sculptorjust like C64. when you press reset, you see weird stuff on the screen
ScottKevillOr when you're loading turbo'd games.
SculptorScottKevill, that's different. that's unpacker
Sculptorit unpacks your data, and then runs it
Sculptorduring unpacking it writes over selected video page
Tutatorturbo ran the tape drive faster when loading a basic game
ScottKevillI didn't have a C64, but I remember it at my friend's place.
Sculptoranimated border and audio is to make it more interesting
Tutatorturbo stuffed up a lot
LoetmichelACTION noticed today that simple workshop paper towels are nearly as good as Vilmill vacuum felt to hold sheet metal in place on the Vacuum table on the gantry router. for a very small part of the vilmill price ;)
MikeeeI always found it funny how expensive the vacuum systems are
Mikeeethey're selling them to people who have cnc's.
flyback-you know cheater
flyback-the wires on the aoyue 2930 handle suck
flyback-looks amateur or i soldered it
acid3JyZyXEL: done?
JyZyXELacid3: like 20%
_abc_ Xperia boom
tomeaton17Please can somebody confirm that this trace is not acking in the correct place according to the datasheet I think the error is the circled parts
_abc_Mikeee: actually the real cnc vacuums are pretty fancy.
_abc_Mikeee: there's fire hazard and liability involved on top of making them work well
Mikeee_abc_ yes they are, but the build plates are so expensive, that's whats funny
Mikeeewhen a shop can just make them
Mikeeethe channeled plates
Mikeeefor the vacuum clamps
_abc_Not sure if they can be made easily to the required precision
_abc_I frequently mill pcb's which means engraving at 50-100um depth
_abc_By the time you have something larger than A5 sheet size to mill getting the height uniform all over the board becomes hard
Mikeeewell you'd start with precision stock, nothing you mill would ever touch the future parts
_abc_For a number of reasons, one is board material, another is double sided adhesive on the bottom, a third the table's straightness (sacrificial layer) etc
_abc_So precise anything is going to be money and or time.
_abc_0.05mm out of 105mm (A5 long side) is already 500ppm
_abc_It's easy to say I can do it but it comes out rather different. Now when you do a full table size 800x600cm or so pcb things get very bad indeed and a lot of jigging and tweaking is needed.
_abc_Note that 0.05mm cutting depth actually requires the table to be straight to 0.025
LoetmichelMikeee: my CNC vacuum is anything but fancy. its a piece of PVC with another pice of PVC on top... and the shopvac as the vacuum source
_abc_Usually cut is made at -0.1 or -0.2 just to avoid the extra work
MikeeeLoetmichel yeah thats what mine uses, a simple shopvac
Loetmichel_abc_: thats why you usually face off the vaccum plate before doing precision work
Mikeeeif it works and you have it anyways, it's smart.
_abc_Loetmichel: that does not help, there is a sacrificial layer between the pcb and the table which is faced off periodically
_abc_Mikeee: does it have a leak on the vacuum to avoid melting the motor?
Loetmichel_abc_: yes, in my case the afromentoined blue shop paper ;)
_abc_Loetmichel: heh you have a China mill too :)
Loetmichel_abc_: you usually use shopvacs which have a seperate motor cooling fan
Loetmichelnot cooled by the vaccum stream
Loetmicheland i do mostly 1,5mm Aluminium sheet and 1mm / 0.3mm brass sheet
Loetmichelthe latter is a bit tricky and rewuires loads of vacuum AND some tape at the corners to prevent it from lifting off there
Bird|ghostedhrm. how can you get a small Phillips-head machine? screw out of a plastic box after several failed attempts with a screwdriver have basically chewed the head up?
Bird|ghostedI'd rather not destroy the box completely, and I can't seem to get it to go with a probe (being pressed into punch duty) and a hammer
Bird|ghostedand when I say "small" I mean M2-M3 ish small
Smidge204First find a screwdriver of the correct size
Smidge204Then try a dab of superglue on it
Loetmichel <- and thats what happens if it lifts off (lower half, right upper corner)
Smidge204Give it plenty of time to set
ScottKevillI think we had this question a day ago.
Bird|ghostedScottKevill, yeah -- I tried the punch and hammer approach since then, to no avail as well
Smidge204If that gets the screw out, use a cig lighter or something to heat it up and release the glue
ScottKevillAhh, it was you, okay. :)
Smidge204If THAT doesn't work, you're drilling it out
LoetmichelBird|ghosted: try a torx that would fit inside the cone thats left of the phillips head
ScottKevillI like the superglue idea. Hadn't heard that one before.
Loetmicheland some firm taps to get it lodged in there
ScottKevillHmm, and the torx one, too.
Bird|ghostedLoetmichel, will try that
Smidge204Loctite 603 is the "real" way to do that trick, but superglue can often work as a substitute
Loetmichelloctite 603 IS superglue
Smidge204It's not
_abc_Bird|ghosted: on trick is to heat the screw head for a short time with a soldering iron then let it cool. Plastic will release the screw after this so you can usually turn it with a normal driver even if 'worn'.
Loetmichelah, just checked
Loetmichelits close, bit no cyan acrylate
_abc_Bird|ghosted: minor plastic lip deformation is expected and normal
Loetmichelits a methyl accylate
Smidge204It's an oxygen inhibited urethane
Loetmichelthats not what the loctite site says
Smidge204Just find something that fits snug and glue it on
Bird|ghosted_abc_, it's beyond 'worn' to the point where there's basically just a round indent left, so I'll try the glue trick :P
LoetmichelBird|ghosted: if you happen to have a "left spiral" drill bit that fits the head: these work better than screw removers on those chinese "lead" screws
_abc_Bird|ghosted: try the glue trick after heat if it does not work 1st time
_abc_Plastic shrinks after manufacture and has a tendency to grip screws fiercely
_abc_Bluetooth mouse question: Any bluetooth mouse should be standard HID right? No drivers needed? I see Logitech etc bluetooth gaming mice with like 3 wheels and 4-6 buttons. Where do these map without a special driver? Are they ignored?
_abc_ interesting. Looks like infrared imaging of a point source?
Inari-Short links are amusing
Inari-"We developed a camera that sees (a) body"
Inari-Sounds cool though
ScottKevillIt sees dead people.
Snertit has that endoscope word in it.
Bird|ghostedLoetmichel, sadly, no, all my drill bits are standard
Bird|ghostedSmidge204, trying the superglue trick now. how long should I wait for it to set up?
ScottKevillNeedless to say, try to avoid any superglue touching the plastic. ;)
Bird|ghostedScottKevill, minor superglue-on-plastic damage is OK
_abc_Bird|ghosted: depends how dry air is where you are and what glue kind
ScottKevillNot for damage, but for it working against your attempts. :P
Bird|ghostedScottKevill, ah.
Bird|ghosted_abc_, cyanoacrylate -- and the A/C is running, so I suppose it'll take a bit no?
_abc_Bird|ghosted: try to 'blow' air (exhale) on the work. It helps.
ScottKevill_abc_: Isn't that going to be high humidity?
flyback-god dammit
_abc_That is what you want. CA sets from H2O vapor
flyback-I can't tell where the blue wire was
flyback-on this solder iron
_abc_flyback-: if you reverse blue and red wires the iron will freeze, right?
curlyearshiegh hough
_abc_ very cool.
_abc_I wonder if the hornets get chopped a bit by drone props
flyback-i think I got it
flyback-took 2 hrs going over the pins and wire with a magnifier
flyback-but I think I foound matching teeth marks
curlyearsteech marks?
curlyearsteeth, too
password2teach marks!
password2dont leave me senpai
fbntsHi, I'm looking to measure current in the mA range with an arduino. I'm pretty new to shut resistors and opamps but how do I select the size of the shunt resistor?
password2fbnts, you thumb suck
password2and then you thumb suck again ,
password2and test both , and see which as better
password2ho low mA are you willing to go?
fbntsI'm needing to measure 0-30mA
password2100mA , 10mA , 1mA?
curlyearsfbnts: you need to size it such that the maximum expected current will cause a 3.3(5)VDC drop across the resistor. Which Voltage to plan for depends on whether the arduino is 5V or 3.3V
fbntsin steps of either 1mA or 0.5mA
password20-30mA? is this an industrial sensor?
password2or similar?
fbntsits for a 5v arduino. It's to measure the current on a laser engraver
Bird|ghostedcurlyears, that's way too much burden, I'd use about 1/50 to 1/100 of that and a current sense amp with a gain of 50 or 100
curlyearspassword2: he JUST stated that he is nt resistor, so he obviously is not using a commercial or industrial sensopr
password2curlyears, ?
curlyearsBird|ghosted: true, but he did not indicate that he had the chops to lay out a workable current sense amp
password2nt resistor , where?
fbntsnot using a sensor, I was going to use a hall effect sensor but was advised that they are not good at such a low current
password2fbnts, and what is the maximum voltage you can drop over the shunt?
curlyearsfbnts: that is true, they are not highly accurate for small readings
password2soo a laser engraver , you shouldbe damn carefull of the voltages involved
password2it ould fry your circuit in an instant
fbntspassword2: yeah, its on the negative side. Most come with an analogue ammeter but mine didn't
kurtIf the amp's input is shunted by a low resistance, it's not really a transimpedance amp.
curlyearsworst case, the Voltage drop acrosss the sense resistor would be excessive, yielding a failure of the laser to operate
kurtThen it's just a regular voltage amp.
kurt(which is fine)
password2curlyears, i think you can drop like 10V without the laser noticing
curlyearsa series sense resistor is NOT going to cause an increqase in available Voltage under ANY ciscumstance (unless it has a negative resistance)
password2lets say we can drop 1 V
LeoNerdAre we still on this problem/
LeoNerdIt's a 5 minute solution
kurtCO2 laser, yes?
LeoNerdGet a tiny shunt resistor. Stick a current sense amp across it. Done
password2then your shunt would be 1V/30mA = 33.33R
fbntsThe laser fires at 22kV and working voltage is 15kV
LeoNerdThere's about 50-billion current sense amp chips around
fbntskurt: yes 40w CO2
password2so i ould suggest a 36 Ohm shunt
curlyears40W CO2? oh. you said for an engrave, right?
password2on what voltage does the input of your arduino work?
fbntsoh sorry, yeah 40w engraver/cutter - one of the cheap chinese K40 type
fbntsit's an uno so 5v
password2do you kno the specs of its ADC?
fbntspassword2: only that it's 10bit
password210bit is plenty
password2you said you want in steps of 0.5mA?
_abc_Bird|ghosted: how's the screw?
fbntsyeah that would be fine
password2so , actually . If you want to , you can skip the opamp. but in most cases you wont
Bird|ghosted_abc_ gave up for now. may not have gotten the precision I want on the superglue, and it may not be in the greatest of shape either
password2so for our shunt thats full voltage at 1V , and your arduino , hich i assume the ADC is referenced at 5V , you want to step up your shunt reading with an op amp by a factor of 5
password2you can either use an inverting or non inverting setup , does not matter really
LeoNerdOr just switch the ADC to the internal 1.1V reference
password2you can just compensate in software
curlyearsit is SORT OF "10 bits" in point of fact, if you use it in "10 bit mode" you lose the two least significant bits, so it's really an 8 bit ADC functionally (AVR ADCs are odd that way)
LeoNerdWhich closer matches the input signal and gives you independence from VCC fluctuations
password2LeoNerd, yeah , that would work a treat too
fbntspassword2: so would the 36ohm shunt interfere with the laser?
password2fbnts, i doubt it
password2you ould always test
password2but i have a suspicion even a 300R shunt ont interfere much
password2if you find it interfereing , you can always use a smaller shunt
password2ut the smaller the shunt , the more you need to amplify and the more noise affects you
password2at 10bit you get 1024 increments , but you might lose some of them due to noise
LeoNerdThe AVR ADC is pretty good for averaging multiple measurements to get rid of noise, also
password2neverless ,even a poor design would let you have 0.1mA resolution
LeoNerdIt's fast enough you can still maintain multiple kS/sec rates while averaging
_abc_ excellent lesson to 'tax grabbers'
password2i dont know arduino specifics
LeoNerdOh I've no idea about /Ardunino/ specifically. But I know the ATmega328P particularly well
LeoNerdIt's been my primary MCU of choice for the past ~3 years.
LeoNerdWell, up until the 328PB came out :)
fbntsI have crudely plotted it in a sim, (I have used a pot to alter the current) - so if I switch to the internal 1.1v reference, I directly connect to the shunt?
password2personally i think you couldamthc the shunt to the ref of your arduino , like someone already said , and you ould get very low noise
LeoNerdYou -probably- want some element of protection circuitry in there
fbntsI would plan to sample over 500ms and average to counter for noise
password2maybe a clamping zener
LeoNerdVarious fault conditions in the load might present the entire supply rail across the current shunt
LeoNerdWhat's the full supply?
password2a few kV
Smidge204_abc_: So people who make a living off tax money are upset they have to pay taxes?
LeoNerdHeh... ouch indeed
password2but a zener should be able to pull it low
LeoNerdYah; you'll be wanting a big resistive element off the shunt and a dissipation zenner
LeoNerdYou need a resistor inbetween, otherwise the zenner has to short a full supply current
password2well its limited to like 30mA
password2a beefy zenere should be able to do that
kurtI'd let the laser current pass through an LED. And I'd make an optoisolated bridge.
curlyearsyou'd be MUCH better off using an analog optical isolator, and never giving that 22kV any possible route to the arduino.
kurtI'd drive the measurement side of the bridge with the PWM output of the uC.
password2kurt, linearity may become an issue\
kurtAll you need is match.
LeoNerdkurt: optos are *terrible* for that
LeoNerdHonestly, these days I don't think of an optoisolator as anything other than a faster version of a relay, with slightly odd switching properties
kurtDIY opto.
kurtNot a chip.
LeoNerdIt's not really useable as an analog component
kurtI have done this with success.
kurtI speak from personal experience.
kurtI mess around with old oscilloscopes a lot.
kurtI wanted to measure beam current.
LeoNerdI imagine you'd need a *lot* of characterisation and software to compensate for all kinds of nonlinearity
kurtIt is a bridge.
kurtI learned it from HP manuals from ancient equipment.
kurtHP was smart.
LeoNerd"a bridge"?
dukedamn, this amplifier has two 6800 uF Caps in it. :D
fbntsSo I would put the zener between the shunt and the arduino pin like
aphex999hi there! I'm searching for an amplifier designer software "HEPA-Plus"
LeoNerdYes; as long as that zenner can sink enough power
LeoNerd30mA at "a few kV" is a /lot/ of power
LeoNerdI'd still be tempted to put a big series resistor on that sense line, after the shunt to limit that
jacekowskiLeoNerd: not if you are using my definition of a lot
fbntsah yeah I see, however, if I manage to get the HV line onto the cathode, I would probably have bigger problems than frying the arduino
aphex999did you heard about that? this time HEPA stands for "High Efficiency Power Amplifier"
aphex999so, i'm searching for it since hours, i hope you can help me
LeoNerdI've only heard of HEPA in relation to air-handling filters
LeoNerdIt's of course possible the same acronym has multiple expansions
aphex999yes, many publications, books refers to it, as the "ultimate tool" for designing amps, but i have no more idea where to find it
fbntsLeoNerd: When you say hefty, do you mean high value or high wattage?
fbntssorry big series resistor on the sense line do you mean big value as in 100k or big in wattage resistor?
LeoNerdWell, both in a sense
LeoNerdHigh enough resistance value without being too much to get in the way of the ADC's S&H circuitry (or else buffer it), and then high enough power handling to cope with the worst failure case
fbntsah I see thanks
_abc_Also see ACS724 from Allegro :)
fbnts_abc_ someone said last night that the hall effect sensors probably wouldn't be that good when measuring low current
_abc_So ESD deniers are worse than climate change deniers?
_abc_fbnts: true, 0.1mA is asking a lot from ACS724
_abc_but you get galvanic isolation and high reliability
_abc_ACTION thinks the gate oxide thickness in power mosfets can be much thinner than 1um
restorerhah, paper title,
restorer"The relentless march of the MOSFET gate oxide thickness to
fbnts_abc_ I don't need .1mA, I can cope with 1mA if that's the best they will do. I do like the idea of them being isolated
fbntsnot that the isolation would stand up to much at 22kV anyhow
_abc_oh sending data across a 22kV potential barrier is tricky
_abc_Normally one suspends a 'measuring' circuit on the 22kV and sends data by other means 'down'. Like fiber optics or rf link.
restorerI suggest a long air gap and flag semaphores
fbntswell hopefully it will never see anywhere near the supply rail!
_abc_There are also other issues with 22kV like corona which will make you want to use a metal case shield for the entire circuit
_abc_ACTION assumes from experience with other mcu's and cmos that arduinos do not like corona at all
fbnts_abc_ ah sorry, no it's not measuring on the 22k side, that's just worst case if the laser tube implodes and somehow shorts
_abc_Well in that case the expense for a new arduino will be minor
_abc_Compared to the price of the new tube
fbntsyeah, < £4 campared to £150ish
_abc_ interesting circuit. I wonder if it has any flaws other than isolating the 'ringing' in the self resonant stand alone inductor...
_abc_Sometimes having less noise in the output is more important than efficiency
SpeedEvilneon flasher
jollygood2should camera sensors' crop factor be multiplied with just the focal length or both focal length and fstop?
ozzzyI don't do anything with them
ozzzythe whole 'equivalent focal length' sounds like silliness to me
jollygood2why? you know what 6mm is on phone without converting?
jollygood2or on a PS
ozzzywhy do you need to convert?
jollygood2point and shooter
_abc_ozzzy: it helps older people who 'eyeballed' with 35mm standard film cameras
ozzzydoes it matter
_abc_Like me
_abc_Yes, it matters to me.
jollygood2how about argument that both should be multiplied with crop factor, both focal length and fstop
_abc_5mm focal length is bullshit for me until I calculate and see that it is normal for a webcam with about 70 degree field and equivalent with a 35mm or so 'standard' lens
_abc_jollygood2: fstop is related to light smount and not size
ozzzyI don't even know the fl of my phones camera.... I just look at the image
_abc_ozzzy: indeed.
jollygood2_abc_, i'm watching a video, and it says if you multiply one you multiply the other.
_abc_I'd prefer if the makers would tell you simply the fov in degrees or something like 'covers 1 meter wide object at 1 meter distance'
_abc_jollygood2: you do but for different reasons
ozzzyif I use a crop on the Nikon I don't convert the focal length etc... a 300mm lens is still a 300mm lens and f/4 is still f/4
jollygood2_abc_ for what reasons?
_abc_one for size and the other for light sensitivity
ozzzyif you shoot an image and then crop it in PS do you do wierd math to put in the metadata or is it just the fl and aperture you shot it at
_abc_ozzzy: one assumes a good camera will report 'equivalent 35mm' fl in the metadata
jollygood2size = size of the lens? light sensitivity =?
_abc_ and it's 63degrees FOV for 35mm fl
_abc_(71deg for 30)
ozzzyI don't think my D810A does... it just reports the focal length the lens tells it (unless the lens doesn't report)
_abc_ozzzy: then you have to do funny math when evaluating the metadata later.
ozzzyno... I just put '300mm' and 'f/4'
ozzzywhatever the lens was set at
_abc_ozzzy: if it also says camera type in the metadata and or lens type and imagers size then it can be worked out
ozzzywhat if I've cropped the image
_abc_ nice graph
jollygood2_abc_ in particular, the video argues that 50mm f/1.8 on camera with 1.6 crop factor acts like 80mm f/2.88 lens on full frame, not like 80mm f/1.8
_abc_ozzzy: then things change again
ozzzyand I still put 300mm and f/4
ozzzyif I cropped an image in the darkroom I didn't do silly math... the image was shot with a 300mm Ektar at f/2 (or whatever)
_abc_jollygood2: of course. Why would you expect there to be more light than there is? There is one wrinkle though: You can 'equivalate' the F-number any way you like after the fact, but the depth of field will be that of the original F/f setup
_abc_So your f/2.88 would expect a lot more dof than there is in the image
jollygood2it says 50mm f/1.8 on crop has same dof as 80mm f/2.88 on ff
_abc_disagree strongly
ozzzya 50mm on a crop will be wider on ff... like 30mm
marvin3_abc_, you disagree? on same note, do you think f/1.8 on phone has same DOF as f/1.8 on dslr, with lens that has same angle of view?
acid3dslr is shit
_abc_the dof is cast in stone the moment you take the pic. Afte that you can 'equivalate' it but the dof is dictated by the lens construction and settings and you can't really.
_abc_marvin3: no
marvin3why not?
marvin3how is it differnet
_abc_marvin3: because it's a different lens and imager
_abc_dof is a result of lens errors among other things.
_abc_real dof not calculated numbers.
kmcthere are some crazy image sensors that record phase of incoming light and can be reconfigured after the fact
marvin350mm and 80mm are also different lenses
Bird|ghostedacid3, what's the issue with it?
_abc_Per calculated numbers dof is a simple function of average light wavelength and lens F/f
acid3mirror is no more needed
_abc_In reality it depends on too many things to calculate.
_abc_It is tested to get the real dof numbers
Bird|ghostedin other words: you'd rather a digital display than an analog viewfinder?
Bird|ghostedor are you OK with mirrorless cameras?
Spirit532digital viewfinders are superior to mirror systems
acid3yes, mirrorless are the best
_abc_Bird|ghosted: depending on how old one is and how bad one's eyes are, a digital vf with zoom and stabilizer and adjustable brightness is a boon
marvin3_abc_ so 50mm f1.8 1.6x crop has same dof, fov, as 80mm and what f-stop on ff?
_abc_marvin3: I am saying it is not as simple as the tables show
marvin3but it is
_abc_it is not
Bird|ghostedSpirit532 and _abc_: yeah, I think I see where you're going :)
marvin3angle of view is the same, distance to subject is assumed to be the same
marvin3the answer is ~f/2.8
_abc_marvin3: yes but lens resolution (effective), real dof, and imager are all different. You are just setting some benchmarks, this is not a real comparison.
Spirit532also this
Spirit532the graphic is kinda shit
Spirit532but the numbers are ok
ozzzyacid3, my dslr is great
marvin3_abc how are images different?
_abc_IMAGERS. The ccd's
acid3dslr can be great only if it uses film )
ozzzydepends on the film
ozzzythe Kodak 103a series were very good
ozzzyfor what I do/did
ozzzythe rest bit green monkey nuts
acid3but if it has matrix inside, mirror is no more needed
ozzzythere are no mirrorless astrocameras
_abc_ any discussion on the technology these people may have used?
marvin3_abc_, sensors are different. so what?
_abc_ACTION has persistent toothache like problems in a specific location, i.e. room and position
_abc_marvin3: okay, you figure it out.
SpeedEvil_abc_: seems bullshit.
marvin3i think you need to figure it out. you can start with link pasted by Spirit532. then google about equivalence
_abc_ACTION has noticed before some sensitivity to modulated rf at higher levels in the past
SpeedEvil_abc_: sound is trivially detectable
Spirit532no mirrorless astrocameras?
_abc_SpeedEvil: indeed. But some recent experiments showed sound perceived by test subjects when certain modulated microwave fields were present
Spirit532how does an "astrocamera" differ from a "camera"
Spirit532wait no it doesn't
_abc_SpeedEvil: and the people who got problems got them mostly indoors. Making an ultrasound beam go undisturbed through walls is unheard of (pun)
ozzzySpirit532, different UV/IR cut filters, different firmware
Spirit532... no
Spirit532that doesn't change anything
Spirit532you can put whatever filters in front of any kind of camera
SpeedEvil_abc_: I would somewhat wonder about reallyhigh power attempts to read window-noise
ozzzyno... the filter built into the sensor
Spirit532and any good camera system will let you tweak the exposure the way you want
_abc_ SpeedEvil
ozzzynot the ones you add
Spirit532filters are not built into sensors
Spirit532(almost ever)
Spirit532they're almost always an optical addition in the path
ozzzySpirit532, they all have a UV/IR cut filter in front of them
Spirit532not built into the sensor
mad7ScientistWhere can you get carbon zinc cells in the US? I need AA and AAA cells that don't leak. Walmart and Menards have Rayovac / Energizer / Duracell alkaline. Walgreens doesn't have the cheap carbon zinc cells anymore except for a 6V lantern battery on clearance. I don't know what to do!
Spirit532it's removeable on almost every device ever
Spirit532trust me on this, I know my thing.
_abc_SpeedEvil: it does not need really high power, it appears that something akin to nearby cell towers can serve. Maybe cranked up a bit. No more than 40W rf at a few tens of meters at most.
ozzzyobviously not
_abc_SpeedEvil: from what I read.
Spirit532I have 5 cameras around me right now
Spirit532several of them cost more than your car
ozzzyACTION looks around.... only 5?
ozzzyread up on the Canon 60Da and the Nikon D810A
_abc_SpeedEvil: and it appears to work better if one has something like tooth filings/crowns which can resonate a bit mechanically at a useful frequency.
_abc_SpeedEvil: probably more so with implants.
ozzzyand the companies that do modifications on normal DSLRs to change the filters
Spirit532there is a difference between sensor glass
Spirit532and optical path filters
Spirit532there is also a difference between sensors with CFAs
ozzzyyou obviously have no clue
Spirit532and bare monnochrome sensors
Spirit532there are also sensors with and without microlenses
ozzzynothing to do with the microlenses or the bayer matrices
_abc_ SpeedEvil
Spirit532sensor glass lids are usually transparent to IR
Spirit532NIR, anyway
Spirit532not >NIR
ozzzythey don't extend to 650nm
Spirit532that's red.
Spirit532barely red.
ozzzythat is indeed red
Spirit532which even CFAs let through
ozzzyit's the wavelength of hydrogen alpha
Spirit532656nm, actually
acid3dslr is shit
Spirit532and that's only the Ha line
ozzzyyep... it's the line that astrophotographers generally want
Spirit532which is easily captured by literally any camera
ozzzyagain... you obviously don't have a clue
Spirit532filters in connsumer cameras make the image visually appealing
Spirit532not necessarily true to life
_abc_Spirit532: 'interpolating the sh*t out of them'
Spirit532basically that
_abc_2MPx real made into 5MPx pmpo
_abc_ACTION has such a phone
Spirit532not even that
Spirit532I have a camera on my desk that can give me basically raw sensor output
Spirit532even bypassing FPN correction
Spirit532and boy, let me tell you, that image is complete shit without processing, regardless of how well it is lit
ozzzydoesn't mean a thing
Spirit532but this camera, with a 2/3" sensor and a CFA, will produce better images than an APS-C-sized DSLR sensor under proper conditions
Spirit532but then again, it costs $1500 and doesn't come with pretty buttons.
kurtDoes anyone remove the CFA an do black and white photography?
ozzzyhehe.... 1500... so about 1/3 the price of my astronomy camera body
mad7ScientistSpirit532, do the cameras require factory pixel calibration?
Spirit532mad7Scientist, every single one in the world
Spirit532no yield is perfect
kurtCan it be removed?
_abc_kurt: removing the cfa is not possible
Spirit532ozzzy, oh boy, you've been ripped off
Spirit532_abc_, it is possible.
_abc_kurt: removing the UV crystal filter is possible
mad7Scientistis there a ROM in there that stores the pixel corrections?
ozzzykurt, some folk do scrape off the bayer filter
Spirit532usually in the firmware of the image processor
_abc_Spirit532: it's built into the ic, how do you remove it
Spirit532_abc_, not built into
Spirit532built onto
_abc_Well mated pixel to filter strip.
ozzzythe standard D810 has about 25% efficiency at 656nm.... the D810A is over 95%
_abc_Sub micron things. How do you remove that.
Spirit532literally scraping it off
Spirit532it's not pretty but it works
_abc_okay that is... daring
mad7ScientistSo a 10MP camera needs a 500Gb correction table
_abc_I removed the CF from several imagers to better see IR leds and various sensors I had to work with
Spirit532500 Gb?
_abc_It works fine but image is less sharp as expected.
Spirit532not really
mad7Scientisthow much correction data does each pixel need?
Spirit532it's usually done in post
Spirit532by the processor of sorts
Spirit532I do it for some of my cameras by subtracting a dark image
Spirit532of which I have a set, for different gain settings
Spirit532all you really care about is the fixed pattern noise and dead pixels
mad7ScientistDon't they have to set the dark value, the bright value, and then the gain?
mad7Scientiston each pixel
Spirit532it's a lot more complex in silicon
acid3If there were no cameras invented yet and you will give a modern sensor to an engineer and tell him that he need to invent a digital camera, he will never invent DSLR because it is simple not necessary )
ozzzyI shoot darks and flats as needed
kurtI've been contemplating digitizing microfiche by direct contact with the sensor of a camera.
_abc_kurt: how direct? You can't really touch the Si top
Spirit532you can
Spirit532but not with a regular sensor
kurtCan I get close enough to make a sharp "contact print"?
_abc_kurt: also the microlenses on current imagers probably do not like direct contact but focus some distance away?
Spirit532you need a FOP bonded onto the sensor
_abc_oh that is cheating
Spirit532and microlenses act as the focal plane
Spirit532the sensor's focal distance is calculated from them, rather than the Si a few microns underneath
_abc_kurt: most sensors are ic's with bonding wires. If you attach a film piece to it you squish the bonding wires. A FOP can fix that
acid3and couple words about video on dslr. It is always made with open mirror )
Spirit532FOP sensors are blooooooody expensive though
Spirit532I know, I have a FF sensor with a scintillator on top of it
Spirit532never againn
_abc_One with 1um fibers will certainly be very expensive
Spirit532the pixels are usually huge
Spirit532and use weird tech for manufacture
Spirit532my sensor is TFT
_abc_Pixels were already ~<3x3um in 1998 or so
_abc_For optical purposes, not science
_abc_iirc the smallest pixels (also crappiest) in use then were >2x2um which is ~2.5 red wavelengths, to satisfy mr. Shannon and Fano and Nyquist
_abc_I think they were really 2.4x2.4 but I really do not rememer that accurately
Spirit532modern phone sensors are around that nowadays
Spirit53220 megapixels on a fingernail
kurt_abc_: Yeah squishing bond wires wouldn't be good.
_abc_It's the physics. Without IQ sampling you need ~3 lambda sized sensors to avoid diffraction related problems
Spirit532BSI sensors have no bond wires on the top
_abc_ACTION wonders if IQ sampling will come to camera imagers some day. Probably.
Spirit532the fill factor would be terrible without stacked silicon though
Spirit532and we're only starting out on that
_abc_2D IQ sampling is cool, you get a directional camera that can 'look' left right up down etc
kurtSpirit532: Yeah.
Spirit532Eric Fossum's Jot sensors are cool
Spirit532take a look at this, _abc_
_abc_Oh quantum dot sensors...
Spirit532200nm pitch pixels
_abc_Yeah that is cheating again. Going beyond IQ sampling too :)
Bird|ghostedmad7Scientist, still struggling with that screw btw :/ tried supergluing a bit to it, but the only superglue bottle I have doesn't really have a very good tip, so glue got places it shouldn't. will have to try again with a toothpick. btw; what was the "chew up the plastic" approach you were going to suggest?
ozzzyACTION 's next camera will probably be an unfiltered OSC CCD
Spirit532As an example, in a gigajot, 1000 fps QIS with 16:9 aspect ratio, with cluster size of 32 (m) ˆ 32 (n),
Spirit532there are 42,000 columns (N) and 24,000 (M) rows of jots and 984,750 clusters as 750 row and
Spirit5321313 column
Spirit532look at this
_abc_For IQ sampling one simply ("simply") needs a double density array with quarter wave plates in front of every second pixel
_abc_Then there's the fun discussion about quarter wavelength at WHICH wavelength in visible.
_abc_Green presumably, to achieve maximum eye-equivalent sensitivity in some dimension
_abc_Also I think that such an IQ sampling imager would be able to take holographic images.
Spirit532Honestly, we don't need extreme resolutions
mad7ScientistBird|ghosted, if you use a punch in the side you can get it out, but there is plastic in the way
Spirit532I'd rather see high light sensitivity, ultra low noise, and ultra high speed sensors
_abc_Has anyone made a LCD with 'IQ' phase capable modulation of each pixel? That should also be holographic...
Spirit532isn't that what RED is doing?
_abc_I don't know.
mad7Scientistso you would have to probably drill out a little area by the side to make room for the punch
kmcwhy are collector and emitter distinguished in a BJT, given that pnp and npn are both symmetric configurations
Spirit532with their holo display phone
_abc_Spirit532: I know nothing about that.
Spirit532barely anybody does
Spirit532marketing hype
Spirit532but they say their display is holographic
_abc_For now. Give it some time.
Bird|ghostedmad7Scientist, I tried wailing on it with a straight-pick (closest thing to a punch I have handy) and a hammer for a while
mad7ScientistBird|ghosted, you could also use a small wheel on a dremel and make it in to a flat blade screw, along with part of the plastic.
mad7ScientistBird|ghosted, did you get a notch started on the side?
Bird|ghostedbut it's a four-handed job and I do not have a bench vise of any sort. nor a dremel
_abc_I bought some dirt cheap VR goggles, the kind where you put the phone in a cradle in it, they are crap. But they make me see each pixel in the phone screen... go back and buy a phone with much higher resolution I guess. 3x higher probably. Do they make ...
_abc_... >300dpi phones...
Bird|ghostedI was kind of going at it with the best angle I can, but I can work on it some more with the punch
kmc_abc_: yeah, Samsung just announced a 4k phone I believe
Spirit532I have a FHD 5.5" phone
Spirit532it's already stupid
mad7ScientistBird|ghosted, there is probably some kind of acid that will remove the metal
Spirit532why would you want a 4K phone
_abc_Spirit532: because vr goggles magnify the hell out of each pixel
kmcSpirit532: that, or if you have too much money
Spirit532VR phone stuff is a gimmick
LooCfuryeah, I got a 4k phone for VR
Spirit532your phone doesn't have
_abc_No it is realistic to invest 10EUR or so and get a pair of goggles you can play vr with before investing in something more serious
Spirit532all phone VR sutff you get looks like a joke
kmcVR porn is pretty good
_abc_It has a Mali gpu which seems okay for what it does
_abc_kmc: lol
LooCfurmy phone is pretty powerful, actually. And yeah, it's best for VR videos (li
LooCfurI haven't been using VR though :P I did a lot more when I had google cardboard, but then I got a more fancy headset, and it sucks. It gives me a headache
LoshkiI suppose phone porn is better than no porn, but everything looks so small...
LooCfurit's gigantic with VR
Cheatermanowiii :D
Cheatermanwhy is 100nF such a common decoupler value?
LoshkiIn that case, I've been misuing my phone :-(
LooCfurLoshki, VR porn with a good VR headset on a 4k phone is surprisingly close to the real deal
kmcCheaterman: probably just has to do with the usual frequency of power spikes