akkSmidge204 (and anyone else interested): it looks like that block read thing might be something to do with the linux kernel smbus driver.
Smidge204Fucking linux...
akkBut it definitely does behave differently from just reading bytes. If I call read_byte() twice with the MCP9808, I get the same byte twice.
Jan-ACTION finds jeremy clarkson hilarious, despite it being jeremy clarkson
akkBut if I call read_i2c_block_data() I get the same first byte, but a different second byte.
jnewt_ozzzy, yeah, crystals. all 32.768kHz, 3 different models, i have several 5-50pF range values for the capacitors, and pots to adjust series and parallel resistance, but i can't get anything that is reliable
vegiiI've built and tested that snail zapper circuit on 5V instead of 12... I can already feel my eyebrows growing together
jnewt_mcu is pic24fj128gb108
ozzzywhat value caps does the crystal want
vegiiI sure did test it with touching and licking the electrodes
kcrowJan- : clarkson is annoying but he has his moments :)
jnewt_the one i have on there has a CL = 6pF. depending on stray assumption, probably about 7-10pF
johnjaythere was a nice guy in here before who had like an entire lincoln towncar manual before
johnjaydon't remember who it was
ozzzyjnewt_, does the datasheet call for 6pF or 13ish pF
johnjayIs there a way to slide the position of the seat without completely removing it?
johnjayI'm guessing not.
jnewt_i have two others, 12.5pF, i tried from 12-24pF, the other I just tried 18pF.
jnewt_ozzzy: let me get the DS on that one
johnjaysclltr: California liberals vote for taxes and ruin where they live
johnjaythen decide to move somewhere else and repeat the process. :D
jnewt_ABS07-120-32.768kHz-T, datasheet at http://www.mouser.com/ds/2/3/ABS07-120-32.768kHz-T-218607.pdf none of them "calls for" the capacitor values. they give CL and if we asume equal value capacitors, CL = Cstray + C/2. 6pF = 2pF(assumed) + C/2 => C = 8pF
kcrowask the people in central valley if they are liberals
MatCathot naked electrons!
ozzzywell... all the crystals I use want 18-22pF caps.... 8 sounds a bit low
jnewt_6pF CL is low, but it's also specified on the datasheet
ozzzyyep... can't argue with that
johnjayanybody in here know much about cars?
Hoolootwojohnjay, do you remember how long ago? it's possible I have logs and could tell you who it is
jnewt_i thought i'd try a low one since i'm just flailing about ozzy. I ordered 3 just to see if i could get something to work
johnjayhmm more than a month probably
johnjaywe were talking about a 2000s lincoln town car
Hoolootwoas long as it's less than around like a year then I'll have a grep around
johnjayand he offered me a data file on it but my inet at the time didn't work
ozzzywhat do they say is the load capacitance?
jnewt_thing is they all "work" at room temp with no humidity, but i can just sit it out in the sun and it will quit.
johnjayi hope it was the right channel and not like #arduino or something
jnewt_6pF on one, the two others are 12.5pF ozzzy
HoolootwoI don't see anything about a lincoln on this channel in my logs
johnjaytry grepping for "lincoln town car", "lincoln"
SpeedEviljnewt_: what sort of situation are they in
ozzzyok... so 12.5pF - 7pF... you want 5.5pF of external capacitance.... two caps in parallel equiv would be 2 x 11pF caps
jnewt_ozzzy: i didn't have 11, but i had 12, and did try that with the same results
ozzzydoes it work if you don't breath on it
jnewt_SpeedEvil, outdoor application, will see pretty wide range of temp / humidity
johnjayI'm thinking at this point I need to completely remove the seat to adjust it
johnjaywhich would suck
Hoolootwothere's some stuff about Nebraska, stuff about a lincoln electric welder but I don't see anything about a car
johnjaythe bolts look rusted on
SpeedEviljnewt_: could there be condensation
ozzzyare there any traces under the crystal?
jnewt_ozzzy, yeah, they all do with all capacitances
johnjayno it would be a town car being mentioned somewhere
johnjayit must have been another c hannel
johnjaybut i formatted that computer I was on so. crap
jnewt_ozzzy, no traces
johnjayi was using the same nick also
johnjayto be clear
jnewt_SpeedEvil, it will eventually get conformal coating (urethane), because yes, that is a possibility, although the box should be sealed (sometimes it doesn't get sealed very well due to poor installation
ozzzyjnewt_, you've got me beat, but it might work with a slow change in temp but not an instantaneous one
Hoolootwoon one of my weirder channels there's a guy doing stuff to his, but it's not related, and he's not around anymore
ozzzydoes the DS show a chart of frequency slew to T
jnewt_SpeedEvil, I had an older version, and that crystal / micro ran no matter what, i could probe it with a passive probe, touch it, drop it, we even ran one in a bucket of water (coated board of course).
Hoolootwooh, found it
johnjayHoolootwo: really?
johnjayi think I got the answer to my question though
johnjayIt seems I probably will have to remove the entire seat just to adjust it. -_-
jnewt_SpeedEvil, this one runs a pic24fj microcontroller, i don't know if that is the problem. lots of theory out there, lots of troubleshooting no-start conditions, not a lot for ones that die under non-ideal situations
SpeedEvilIs there a 'drive strenght' option
Hoolootwofor the record the log is at http://hooloovoo.blue/files/2017-03-16.log but I haven't picked through it
jnewt_SpeedEvil, I've been looking all through the datasheet for different modes or other settings, seems like it's only on or off
johnjayAlso I find it somewhat creepy that not only is there a log
johnjaybut it shows my public IP address and everything
johnjayah ok I found it
johnjayThe person who offered to help is in this very channel!
johnjaythanks Hoolootwo
Hoolootwoyou're welcome
HoolootwoI keep logs for reasons like this if I want to refer back to conversations
johnjayi think my client keeps logs automatically
Hoolootwoand the public IP thing is just how IRC works
johnjaybut i don't know if there's a size limitation
johnjayyeah well don't worry i'm not anita sarkeesian
HoolootwoI keep logs on my client and znc server
johnjayi won't get you fired or something after getting a bunch of twitter threats
hestonhey guys. Anyone know if you can wreck a laptop wifi adapter by only connecting 2 antennas when it expects or has room for 3?
Casperit may or may not like it
Casperdepend if it try to transmit or only receive on it
hestonim not sure which channels I should even use with the two antennas i do have
Casper1 and 2 I'ld say
hestonthere's Channel 0, 1 and 2
Casperthen 0 1
hestonon my other chip it's Main and Aux
hestonI know on ham radios for instance that you can fry the transmitter by operating without an antenna
hestonor even too much antenna reflection (i think that's the term)
Casperbut wifi is like 50mW to 250mW
hestonyeah, just who knows what the tolerances are
klyshi. I have been looking at a project from http://americanradiohistory.com/Archive-Radio-Electronics/90s/1993/EN-1993-08.pdf . The project calls for a 20Hz ringing generator. I searched digi-key for Ring Generator, and found the TI UCC3750. here it is: http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/ucc3750.pdf the "typical application circuit" has several unrated components diagrammed.
klysI have several questions about this product, it being the only ring generator on the market or available at a reasonable price.
JFK911ring ring ring ring BANANA PHONE
klysThe typical application circuit on page 6 of the data sheet lists eight connections: Vin, RTN, Vout, VDD 5V, REF, VB, REF, and VDD. Where are those connections supposed to go?
JFK911To those things
klysVin and RTN are the voltage in (5V?)
JFK911some of them are obvious, others are application specific (REF? ref what?)
JFK911not sure about rtn, if you have a theory try and verify it with context
klyspresumably it is a "reference" signal
Flea86klys: Vin is 48V it seems..
JFK911Flea86: stop reading the datasheet, thats cheating
klysflea86, also I could use some help at rating components such as T1
JFK91148v is some normal telephone voltage
JFK911klys: they probably don't matter as long as they work with your application
JFK911only the important details are specified
klysI explained my application and linked the pdf file
klys"Phone Line Simulator"
JFK911hey i remember when this was published
JFK911Today, I'd use asterisk and some fxo/fxs cards
klysso naturally it sould need a working ringer circuit. The ringer is supposed to operate at 20Hz and 85V out with 12V in at 500mA.
klysThis project is partially to understand the nature of the problem and partially to build something that deals with it.
JFK911what problem?
klys"Phone Line Simulator."
JFK911what purpose does this have
JFK911when i used professional telephone simulation boxes they were in furtherance of another goal
klysiow, I am not looking for a commercial solution to something that can be understood.
JFK911these circuits dont look to be very useful
klysyes - perhaps there is another circuit somewhere that I don't know how to look for.
JFK911so what do the clones of the digium 4 port cards cost now
JFK911the author doesnt really give much good rationale for this
klysI found an unlocked 2-FXS gadged for $21 on eBay.com
klysstill, that wouldn't be the idea, because the goal is to understand the problem.
JFK911this will definitely not explain you how to draw circuits that make tones and ringing voltages
JFK911but it will be more useful for the attempted use case arguments in the electronics now article
klysSINREF is the output of the sine-wave "reference" generator, from the data sheet
hestonanyways thanks for the input casper
vegiihmm... there seem to be some very cheap 0.5V solar panels on ali. How many would be necessary to cheaply charge a lipo in a reasonable fashion?
Caspervegii: first, find a solar capable charge controller
vegiiCasper: exactly...
Casperbut atleast 10
vegiithe circuits on instructables just use that tp-something... tp4056 afair, which is 5V stuff
Casperbut remember that not all controller will work proprelly or safelly on solar
vegiiyep... therefore I don't like this approach
vegiithere should be something that could make use of higher and lower solar panel voltages...
vegiioutside 5V
HoolootwoI think there is a way, with per-panel power things
HoolootwoI heard this in passing though, don't know much about it
vegiioh well, that tp4056 doesnt look all that bad actually, accepting 4-8Vin and auto- poweroff at lower voltages
VanUnamedah yeah
VanUnamedi did try my motor today
VanUnamedthe windings were all below 6 ohms, my multimeter was crazy
VanUnamedi dont know what the fuck did I do, i wired as I wanted to
VanUnamedand... it spun for a while
VanUnamedthen the plug litteraly exploded
Lord-KaminaI think after about 10 years, my compressor has finally kicked the bucket.
VanUnamedwither I have a faulty motor, or I have wired it wrong
CasperLord-Kamina: make a new one
joe_zCasper, sounds dangerous
theBearholy eff-balls batmans ! they sure stick them molded sata leads together with a lotta sticky stickin' stuffs, wowee did that take a lotta finesse and iso alky to get one of each (pwr+data) apart ready to make up this stupid rightangle adapter for this stupid lookin laptop here ! i got the other side of the connector off a long-ago dead lappy hd pcb with my little cigarette "jet lighter" in seconds lookin like a new one, barely even marks the pcb
theBearyou salvaging off with that little sucker, not like when yer use a big bbq bottle full of lpg and a old style fat bunsen-mixer style handle to get everything off a pc or lappy mobo for reusery.... sure you get ALL the parts of clean and nice with a couple sharp taps, but in the meantime you almost burn thru the stupid too-much-copper multilayer board just heating up things enuf :-P
Casperjoe_z: https://flic.kr/p/veeC85
Lord-KaminaCasper, don't think I really know how.
Lord-KaminaBTW... what could have gone wrong?
joe_zCasper, pretty sure fridge compressors aren't made to run that way
CasperLord-Kamina: what happend to it? it refuse to chooch?
Lord-KaminaI just replaced the PTC and the startup relay.
Casperjoe_z: 1.2cfm, quiet
Lord-KaminaJust won't start.
Lord-KaminaAssumed it was either of those things.
Lord-KaminaBut no.
CasperLord-Kamina: have you checked the winding continuity? what about the start cap?
Lord-KaminaI'm not reading any opens on any of th three posts either.
Lord-KaminaAll posts are in the tens of ohms range from each other.
theBearthis plug ain't gonner blow when i get it stuck together
joe_zCasper, I think there's normally a lubricant in the refrigerant
Casperjoe_z: yup, I added a pint of oil actually, that's too much, but it work, so it's not an issue :D
Lord-Kaminajoe_z, mine was like that only about ten times more gangsta.
Lord-KaminaAnd it lasted years.
Caspernow I'm hungry
Caspergoing get a poutine
theBeari'll give you a poutine
Lord-KaminaOnly thing is at some point I changed the relay and the PTC for slightly more powerful ones than I should have gotten.
theBeardominos here recently started listing poutine on the specials/short-term-testing dept of their menus
stairmast0ri have a really weird problem... one of the power seat functions in my car died, and when i checked it turned out that one of the four cables from the switch wasn't getting a full 12v
Lord-KaminaBecause the compressor was 1/8 HP and I'm not even sure they make those anymore.
VanUnamedputting the capacitor on the wrong wire would cause this?
theBearstairmast0r, the err, you know that likely only one or two wires should have any volts on em until you wiggle the wiggler that sposed to make it move
stairmast0ri've cleaned out the switch, and tested it all sorts of different ways. there's continuity between the relevant points with the switch in both (forward/back) positions
theBearVanUnamed, did it explode, or melt, or a bit of both, kinda turning itself into a lump of coal in the processs ?
stairmast0ryet when i plug it into the car, it's getting weird voltages between 2 and 10
stairmast0rand the motor still won't power on via that cable, but it works on all three of the others
VanUnamedno, it just banged a blue flash and then the automatic engaged
VanUnamedit was super hot
theBearstairmast0r, actually, unless it's some ANCIENT silly overkill american thing, way older than me, i'd say none of them are likely to have a voltage on them
theBearor at least not one you can read with a meter
VanUnamedbut the motor ran for a bit before that happend
theBearwhat automatic]
stairmast0rtheBear: the other 3 motors' wires read a constant 12v
VanUnamedthe safety switch
VanUnamedon the house panel
stairmast0rthere are literally no components in this entire switch and harness besides little metal strips, contacts, and wires. absolutely no semiconductors or the like
theBearVanUnamed, and on that note, sounds like MASSIVE overcurrent, kinda thing that might happen if the 2 wires were directly connected to each other and you didn't have a remotely sane breaker/fuse upstream (closest upstream safety such as fuses or breakers should always die before you can melt the wires coming out of it
VanUnamedbut why the 13 amps fuse did not blow?
theBearstairmast0r, motors ain't switches, and unless the wires go straight from the switch/control to the motors, rather than disappearing off into the loom to a place more "complicated" than you have imagined could possibly be in there somewhere, you looking at the whole thing wrong
stairmast0rtheBear: they _do_ go straight from the switch to the motors
theBearVanUnamed, erm, cos it's got more thickness/current carrying capability than the wire coming outta it
VanUnamedso basically if I did wire the capacitor on the wrong wire, it would not cause this
theBearstairmast0r, oh, well, good thing i covered my ass when i said all that eh :)
stairmast0ri have removed and personally witnessed every part of the circuit between the 2-wire 12v source and the motor
VanUnamedyeah I mean the wire was pretty thin for 1.1kw
theBearVanUnamed, mmmm, it might, big start caps look kinda heavy duty to mains freqs
VanUnamedwhat i want to know is just if the motor is OK that's it
VanUnameda faulty winding would mean the motor won't spin at all I think
theBearstairmast0r, hmm, so you saying 12v comes from elsewhere to the switch, then switching it sposed to do three different 12v outs when you wiggle it, but only 2 of them seeing 12v ? you waqnna polish the little black sparkey marks inside the switchey thing where it joins the contact for the one that ain't working, and has over time crusted up (little sparks every time it goes on/off) and is now more like a mid size resistor than two bits of copper
theBearor brass touching each other
theBearVanUnamed, mmmmm, depends, i been busy and not listening too hard generally, but there a lotta kinds of motors, maybe all kinds, that will at least do SOMETHING so long as there one something that still looks like more than a few turns/windings inside it somewhere
stairmast0rtheBear: already took the whole thing apart, soaked the little metal pin bits in alcohol, wiped them off, and 2000-grit sanded the entire plate they slide against
VanUnamedSO IT could still be damaged lolool
VanUnamedand thanks for your replies
stairmast0rtheBear: it measures 0.0 ohms between both 12v/ground and the two motor contacts
theBearstairmast0r, mmm, assuming the springey/tensioney whatever that makes those two touch is intact, well, measure resitance with a meter between those 2 with no 12v at all
N0ZYCnow that's what I call "low imedance"!
theBearstairmast0r, hmmmmmm.. you sayin that the motor on its own measures 0r across it's two wires ?
theBearN0ZYC, i had low tolerance when i was younger and more excitable <wink>
N0ZYCI don't think my test probes measure 0.0 ohms ;)
theBearin a minute, after i go to the kitchen, i gonna have coffee, cos ya know, being indefinately tolerant without punctuating it via such distractions is err, i dunno, can't be good
stairmast0rtheBear: 0 between the "input" plug and the motor plug
stairmast0rno power connected
N0ZYCooh stupid MS. stores "recent items" as full paths from the hard drive, instead of relative from the user folder.... d'oh
theBearN0ZYC, you wanna contact-cleaner yer na-na holes and give em a good wiggle, and likely the big dialey selector thinger too, at least in all but the most expensive meters i seen, makes the thing much more usable in general, specially at the low ohms dept, note that you probly don't wanna pull the pcb off the back of the big knob thinger, cos it'll have springey and ball bearingey bits that like to go all over the place
N0ZYCI'm glad SOMEONE understands what I'm talking about
theBearstairmast0r, what the motors measure across their 2 pins compared to each other, with no power/voltage of course
stairmast0rtheBear: you're like AvE reincarnate
theBearN0ZYC, i dunno if i'd go that far :)
N0ZYCoh, I've SEEN how far you'll go!
theBearstairmast0r, who ? what ? i'm surely more aloof and fond of the psychadelic mind abuse
theBearN0ZYC, that's only cos i never had to go further than that... least, not yet <gaze off at something far away that doesn't seem to exist>
theBearbut umm, coffee
stairmast0rtheBear: are you joking about the motor resistance
N0ZYChmmm this lil app is trying to *steam* clean my wallet
N0ZYC /me resists temptation
theBearthen i'll see how good i am at soldering up rightangle sata things without anything between the pins of the plugs either side, with my shitty backup iron, the one with the fat crappy tip, and the 20 or 25w of completely unregulated or controlled heat behind it
theBearstairmast0r, no
stairmast0ruhh.. 2.7 ohms
stairmast0rthe motor i'm testing with works on the other functional 12v lines
theBearstairmast0r, might have to wiggle/move the shaft a teeny bit to get a reading, probly not tho, also probly wanna go thru (with gaps of no movement/rotation while measuring) a half or full rotation too, cos they gonna be dc motors with brushes and commutatey thingers likely
stairmast0rhow is this relevant
theBearstairmast0r, but, you've already measured/covered everything else, something gotta be not right if something is not right <grin> you have checked the wires between everything work right
theBearstairmast0r, well, i didn't know you "tested everything" and it was "all o.k/fine" when i typed that
theBearbut it ain't fine, so something gotta be ya know, not ine
stairmast0rwell if the motor spins when plugged into one connection but not another then it's safe to rule out the motor, right..?
theBearstairmast0r, pretty much, but ya know, you running outta things that ain't ruled out.... maybe if yer can do it physiclly, hold the not working switch so it should be moving the motor, and wiggle any plugs or spades or general loomey bits
theBearooh, also look around see if there's some kinda limit switch involved, ya know, to stop the motors burning out if yer hold the adjuster when they already gone to the end/stop
theBearnow i make coffee
stairmast0rtheBear: no limit switch, and i've also read others talking about the same car say the same
theBearstairmast0r, but surely they didn't have your awesomeness, and that's why you gonna work it out instead of ruining the whole searchability of the wide worlds of web by wasting time telling other fools about how they didn't solve the same problem endlessly via forums and other such time-wasting avenues :)
Lord-KaminaHmm... considering an actual proper compressor costs like $100, I think I'll just buy one of those.
stairmast0rtheBear: the switch unit has one 'input' and 4 'outputs', there is nowhere that limit switches could possibly exist and be connected. there are also no other wires anywhere on the bottom of the seat, besides the occupancy sensor
stairmast0rwhich doesn't connect to this
theBearstairmast0r, well erm, you got a meter, you seem to know how things work, just ya know, find where the voltage drops (or there's a relatively high resistance, depending on how yer getting to that conclusion) and that's yer problem i spose, so ya know, if yer see no voltage coming outta the switch, i spose it gotta be the pressure or cleanliness of the contacts...
jnewtI think i need to take a step back. I have a pic24fj128gb108 microcontroller. i need a 32.768 crystal for the secondary oscillator for my RTCC. There are 1000's of options. What do i need to look for. (ps, i chose and tried 3 and they all start but are extremely touchy with temperature and probably humidity too (i can literally breathe on them and they will stop for a second or two and them restart).
theBearonly takes a tiny bend or deforming inside a switches bits and pieces to make it look fine but be useless for what it sposed to do, and if yer careful and know how to not strain and crapify metal parts, it's always a good idea to lightly tension any old contacts while yer close enough to access em (switches, plugs, sockets, any pressure based kinda contacts_)
theBearjnewt, you know you can get all in one little rtc modules (even bigger ones a bit like a relay package with batteries and everything in there ready 2 go) these days supercheap right ?
jnewttheBear: haven't looked into that, circuit is done, I just apparently don't know how to choose and implement my secondary oscillator.
Lord-KaminaI can buy a 1.1HP compressor relatively cheap; it's 8bar 170 L/min but states it has no tank...
Lord-KaminaWould that be truly relevant?
jnewtYou're gonna want a tank
Lord-KaminaWhat's the difference?
theBearjnewt, as far as ppms and tolerances and temps and stuff, a lot of that is up to what you demand for the end result, which actually reminds me, REALLY fancy crystal/clock module kinda thingers even often got internal heaters/temp controley and/or compensation stuff going on, obviously at the cost of size and complexity and efficiency
theBearheh, yeah, if i had a tank, noone would dare tell me i wasn't truly relevant <grin>
theBearthat's what i need
klysjfk911, http://cds.linear.com/docs/en/design-note/dn134f.pdf
wireheadis there a channel centered around embedded programming
JFK911klys: clever opamp use yea?
Lord-KaminatheBear, heh.
theBearLord-Kamina, for example, if yer using a big nail gun, or even a teeny tiny stapler or air blowey handle perhaps, you wanna have a nice steady BIG "reserve" of air AND pressure between the pump and yer hose, cos you don't wanna be constantly waiting fer it to pressure up between bursts/uses/whatever, and if yer painting or doing something like that, you want a lotta buffer between the bumpy pump output and your airgun otherwise it's all crappy
theBearand annoying
jnewttheBear: I need it to work in an outdoor application, in pretty much any climate within reason (ie cold ass winters in canada and hot summers in phoenix. i need it to work in humid areas too. I am going to conformally coat the board (have been testing urethane and silicon.
klysjfk911, I suppose the TI UCC3750 uses op-amps that way also
Lord-KaminaFair enough.
JFK911it may
theBearwirehead, few i spose, more channels that discuss it, but 'cos they're about some subject/thing that is ya know, embeddedish, and needs lots of programming to be useful :)
JFK911these ways are all out of fashion now
Lord-KaminaMine was literally the bare motor so I actually occluded it with my finger for a couple seconds to build up a pressure.
Lord-KaminaIt's been years since I used it for anything more than dusting things off.
jnewttheBear: i've read a ton of stuff on troubleshooting oscillators, and i have zero issues with my primary 8Mhz. it's this damn low freq one driving me nuts.
theBearjnewt, that is a good start, specially fer durability, but it won't do much to help a crystal (which is already fairly sealed by nature, where the crystal bit is, which is where it really matters,) resist changing with temps... long term accurate timekeeping is tricky by any standards and any methods (including non-electronicey ones,) and generally has some kinda maintenance or regular reference clock checks invovled
theBearLord-Kamina, heh, i gotta admit, all the jobs/compressors i had on hand over the years, probly more often than not in % lifetime/days kinda terms, the thing i miss most is being able to power my little blower handle thing :-) so handy for so many things
theBearjnewt, you done maths on yer 8mhz over the same kinda time periods as yer trying to do at 32.25khz, whatever trad. rtc freq is, something like that, you done that ? cos if it really IS "zero issues", it would make sense to just divide that down and use THAT as yer rtc reference/clock
Lord-KaminaOriginally I got it for painting hobby model-kits
Lord-KaminaBut like I say... I think I haven't used it for that since... 2006?
jnewttheBear, I didn't do anything hardly on the 8Mhz. I picked a cheap one in stock at mouser, had some 18pF caps, threw them on this prototype and it just works. i can touch it, probe it, leave it out in the sun, heat it with a hair dryer, put it in the ice box. it works. if i look at the low freq ones in a disapproving manner, they stop working until I change my attitude.
theBearjnewt, and generally in a xtal/crystal style osc, yer switching and hitting the crystal pretty "hard", making minor parasitics and cap tolerances and values and everything else than the crystal itself, have very little influence on the resulting osc. freq, assuming they don't kill the thing completely (think yer classic 15-30pF xtal (i forget the name of that little digital/schmidttey kinda loop circuit that is kinda the reference for xtal
theBearcrystal oscs, but you know it) circuit, the caps tend to make it osc or not, but do very little inbetween those 2 points regardless of value or tolerance..)
theBearjnewt, mmmm, to be fair, it's unusual to be able to touch/probe anything near a crystal osc without it at least freaking out a bit, often completely killing it or throwing things WAY outta kilter, to the point where if yer not done that kinda thing before, yer can't workout wtf is going on cos all yer measurements and probing argue with reality and generally change the operation of the thing you wanna measure, at least enough to confuse yer ass
klysjfk911, it seems REF is the internal 7.5V reference voltage, as specified by the REF pin description (pin 25.)
jnewttheBear, I read that, and started using software interrupt clocked by the secondary to determine if it was running as suggested. I just don't understand what makes one so robust with nearly no effort (luck?) and the other seem impossible.
jnewti checked my psu, checked bypass caps, tried different crystals and caps and even processor. i feel like i'm not matching something to the micro properly but I don't know what
theBearhehe https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BV1eKphHFjY&index=15&list=RDU13xOvDa19U this vid been cracking me up regularly fer several days now, well, i assuming that the link, i got a copy in my private reserve naturally, and i ain't in the mood to be testing ffox/ut00b history at this time of day, no sir... warning: if yer not fond of silly people being silly, or that song about a so called "safety dance" (at least i think they removed all the
theBeardwarves and other really worrying stuff from the original for this one <grin>) then err, probly best not to do anything at all, certainly not click the link
theBearjnewt, heh, experience in all kinds of very varied situations over many years, makes me vote it was just lucky :) the umm, how you driving/interfacing the rtc/slow crystal ? or does that micro have a 2nd internal xtal/crystal osc thinger for these purposes ?
jnewt2nd internal osc thingamajiger just for this purpose
theBearwowee ! just imagine how my life woulda been different if i'd been embracing pic's for their differences instead of avoiding them, and generally holding a lifelong grudge against 'em cos of the whole basic-stamp thing, pricing and timing historically and all kinds of little things added up to cause that, even now i got a few pics in the other room i picked up somehow over the years, but i can't bear to look at the things :)
SnakesAndStufftheBear: You and Viper-7 are pretty much opposites on PICs
theBearjnewt, surely the datasheet/manual fer that chip/series gives yer all the info you should need to make it work pretty much as they designed ? maybe look fer some fineprint or masterclass blog comments somewhere re: the finer points of what crystal is expected to be used fer this... there a LOTTA specs attached to crystals that generally even if yer understand/know them all, you seldom need to care about, but in some cases (maybe this one,)
theBearthere's some aspect/spec that isn't made a big deal of in the docs, but that matters a lot
theBearSnakesAndStuff, heh, kinda, i learnt more than a few years back now that they got a bunch of kinda cool(+different-to-alternatives) features and such, intellectually that is... emotionally, i have trouble letting go of thigns, specially dislikes, and even moreso ones i formed when younger and more arrogant <grin>
theBearSnakesAndStuff, at the same time i ain't ever got to a point where i thought "damn, if only i could use a pic for this, everything would be so much better" <grin>
theBear"no fixed position.... NOOOO set MOVES !"
jnewtI've been looking around fro whatever I could find, lots of theory, some of the stuff about determining margin at high temp and low voltage is what i want to do , but i can't seem to even get into the ballpark that they're specing for temp and voltage ranges.
theBearanyone know off-hand what the ES (edison/screw) size is that is roughly half the size of a standard (err, E24 or E28 maybe?) mains/desklamp kinda one ?
jnewtweird thing is there's a whole lot of talk about start up and how it can be difficult to get right. I tried three different crystals and varied their capacitors and they worked as long as i don't breathe on them or touch them or probe them or otherwise disturb their perfect little existance
jnewtall started up every time
theBearwhile we at it, anyone know (to save either of us mathing it up, just cos it a lotta steps/things to think on a sat morning <grin>) how many amps yer want at about 13 or maybe 13.8v ('cos it's a common number here) to drive 2 pairs of bridged push-pull amp stages driving 4ohm loads (like say, a little all-in-one designed-for-cars subwoofer thing might have internally to make itself work, or err, i spose about the same as a 2channel/amp (vs
theBearstandard 4 these days) head unit sucks at ful power
theBearjnewt, mmmm, but that's generally no more than a few osc cycles at MOST, assuming the circuit starts at all, certainly not a long term or varying kinda thing
jnewtguess it's just a popular thing for app notes to talk about
jnewtthat part where you put in a series resistor...yeah, that causes it to not start, so i can't do that part either.
jnewtparallel resistance kills it too
theBearheh maybe, i do know it can be a damned tricky one, for example i've seen multiple commercial units (expensive things, 5figures kinda expensive, sold and used all over the world, and often from very different background/histories before i seen em,) that work fine for maybe 10 or 20 years, then from what i guessed is something like pcb/coating/similar breakdown or absorbtion of some kind never anticipated at design/sale time, within a very tight
theBeartime period, they ALL stop starting up, the main osc that is, that ya know, makes them do ANYTHING when you power em on, tho just touching or probing even nearby that area of the circuit during powerup makes em work perfectly again, and in several cases i got a bit carried away testing/trying to workout exactly what is going on, to the point where i replaced/messed with pretty much everything involved except the pcb itself, and still not been
theBearable to get the suckers starting, even with silly mods to try and kick start things a bit, and ended up doing things like just replacing the whole xtal/crystal side of them with those 4pin all in one crystal/osc thingers, and then seen them work perfectly for another 10+ years for reasons i'm pretty sure i haven't worked out much at all
theBearjnewt, mmm, like i say, they tricky, and when it comes to designing and learning to make all this stuff work yerself, iit even worse cos of how it's hard or impossible to probe/measure things as you learning
Evidlo[m]I'm trying to convert a filter to a balanced filter, but it doesn't seem to be right according to my simulator. Can anyone confirm if this is right? http://i.imgur.com/8qxNaAE.jpg
theBearbut ya know, if we didn't have stuff like that, electronics wouldn't be nearly as much fun, it'd be more of a one-weekend hobby, than a lifetime one
theBearerg, i can't anti-parallel up filter math in my head this time of the week
theBearEvidlo[m], you sure you wanna be symmetricalising the whole r-l-c ladder/filter, vs two independant ones that get summed/subtracted later weffectively cleaning up each others tolerances or i dunno, something along those lines
jnewttheBear, I could do without this. It is not fun and I can't find any practical appication stuff. lots of try different this or that and here's some theory, and it's compicated, etc.
theBearEvidlo[m], also remember that you wanna buffer either side of a passive filter or the source/load (in/out) impedances either side will throw things out radically when re-mathing for paralleley stuffs
Evidlo[m]theBear: i have some differential tranceivers on each end of this circuit
theBearjnewt, mmmm, but i'm jaded and crippled, i can afford to be fickle and unproductive these days :)
theBearEvidlo[m], you accounted that if you making the filter ladder(s) involve both sides of a balanced pair, that you effectively err, halving the impedance of both the driver and receiving buffers/stages ?
jnewttheBear, it's a fairly large circuit I'm working on on this project, and this is such a small portion of it that is taking a hugely disproportionate amount of my time now
theBearEvidlo[m], you got a convincing sounding kinda reason for even doing any of this to a balanced/symmetrical part of yer chain ? it's erm, certainly not something you see come up often
restoreronly now do I realize that my PWM board doesn't go full off
jnewtand the overwhelming amount of theory and lack of practical information makes it worse
restorerI don't have any suitable switches for switching this
restorer(after I've soldered everything)
theBearjnewt, mmm, that does get yer down, but you gotta blame that murphy feller, not electronics, for the way it happens :)
restorerand my fans are running on the same circuit :-\
theBearjnewt, heh sorry, bit rambley today, i should stop giving yer (vague at best <grin>) little bits and pieces of random theory/empirical evidence and let you or someone who is on top of the whole situation work it out in peace :)
theBearwhen yer crippled and got a walkin' stick, yer fans don't gotta run, they can just tail you at a very casual pace, generally <cheeky grin>
theBearhehe, that's not a halfassed threat btw, i'm ya know, crippled and got a walking stick, and well, obviously i got a lotta fans, i mean, i'm theBear <grin>
Evidlo[m]theBear: here's the context: http://i.imgur.com/blp0XIe.jpg
Evidlo[m]I'm trying to send data down a powered cable
Evidlo[m]oh and that second highpass filter should be connected to the transceiver
jnewtseems someone had better success with higher esr crystals and Mohm level pull up on the osco (out pin). maybe that would help
theBearEvidlo[m], err, i guessing it's your own balanced power "cable" and not just a standard mains cable/setup in an existing wall/whatever ?
theBearjnewt, ya never know, tho i gotta say that sounds suspiciously like what yer do to make a simulator not-be-broken with tricky to sim circuits and startup situations rather than something that someone really did
Evidlo[m]theBear: its not connected to mains, but its not a fancy cable. just 2 insulated wires in a jacket
Evidlo[m]and the whole system is floating
jnewttheBear, i am sure you have a good point in there somewhere, but I missed it.
theBearjnewt, remember what those who know say, something like 4/5ths of all the electronics (from circuit/schem fragments right thru to discussions/theory and outright claims of factual somethings) on the 'net are entirely fictional and/or untested and/or just plain wrong
theBearEvidlo[m], by fancy i meant more what you were sending up it in the power/non-injected-signal dept more than anything else
genewitchoutdoor ~14VDC supply?
theBearmmmm, treating non-ac/flipping kinda anything as a balanced/symmetrical kinda line is always a bad start, not that i accusing anyone
Evidlo[m]theBear: its a few hundred volts DC, but what does that have to do with the balancing?
Evidlo[m]floating high voltage DC
restorerdespite my other mistake of... leaving the plastic sleeve on the tip of the soldering iron when I plugged it in {facepalm} - I now have a decent nighttime light with a good range of dimming
Evidlo[m]theBear: don't different transceivers necessitate a balanced filter design?
theBearEvidlo[m], hmmmm, i spose if it completely floating and in no way related to the circuits you using to tranceiver over it, and all yer summing/differentialling is on the hipassed side of things, not much, but otherwise yer doing a lotta extra circuit/work for little if any advantage
theBearEvidlo[m], ummm, can't think why now you ask, specially if the filter is far outside of the desired freq range, as it will be if you just splitting dc and something ya know, far from dc
Evidlo[m]theBear: I wrote `noisy` in the schematic because the DC-source and DC-DC are spitting out high frequency noise
theBearEvidlo[m], tho i spose, hmmmm, if everything is all floatey and unrelated to each other, you only need a single ended filter, and even tx/rx circuit now i think about it, don't yer ? basically either end would "work like" a classic transformer coupled balanced line, ya know, like ethernet for example
theBearEvidlo[m], what are yer "LPF" blocks like ? basically just big inductors, maybe some caps "pi" filter style ?
Evidlo[m]the first picture I sent is a 3-port device. It contains the HPF, LPF and matching circuits
Evidlo[m]the LPF is the stuff on the top left
theBearEvidlo[m], oh yeah, that makes sense
theBearfor reference that is kinda the opposite of a "pi filter", which is par-cap -> series ind. -> par-cap , which ya know, looks like a PI symbol
Evidlo[m]I call it a T filter
theBearEvidlo[m], and you did mention/notice a whilel back that yer want yer lpf either side of yer tranceivers, not between em right ?
Evidlo[m]yes, the LPF is just for blocking noise from the DC source and DCDC
theBearmmm, of course, classic T filter, i used to make little analog drum synth circuits with em, following the example set by roland before i was born <grin> i forget these technical terms, never went to proper ee schol
Evidlo[m]the LPF's
klyssome of the parts mentioned in the diagram, page 6 of http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/ucc3750.pdf I found listed here: http://www.ti.com/lit/an/slua060/slua060.pdf (page 14.) note that this is an example of using the ring generator to do something different than it's intended application.
theBearEvidlo[m], consider, that IF EVERYTHING is floating/not-referenced to anything else, that yer 2nd line in a differential pair, is effectively exactly the same as the gnd in the top version of yer filter schem link... cos from any end (rx/tx or dc in/out) that block of the circuit doesn't see things any different to that... for example, arbitrarily call either line "0v/ref" at any point, then graph what you see on the other line at that point,
theBearit's the same regardless of differentialness or not, and assuming all that is like that cos everything really is floating in relation to each other, you don't need to actively cancel/subtract both lines from each other, the floating ref. does that inherantly
restorernow I'm nearly out of wire
theBear"remember, electronics is all about relative potentials... there are no absolutes when it comes to voltage"
restorerI'll have to clean these runs up and replace them with 2-conductor cabling eventually
restorerand better ways to connect them: I hear XT-60 and similar connectors are hard to connect/disconnect?
Evidlo[m]theBear: don't I still need to block the noise on my virtual ground?
theBeari suspect, of all the many many conncectors i do know, that i don't know what xt-60 are
Evidlo[m]used in RC planes and quads
theBearEvidlo[m], how would you do that ? think about the graph example i said, or if you prefer imagine it from the pov of a meter or a batt powered scope, or a classic transformer coupled approachj
restorerI have no idea what to look for in an interconnection plug for 12V/24V DC
theBearEvidlo[m], hmmm, something like a tiny umm, those red ones named after a dude, dean maybe ?
restorerI thought XT-60 was supposed to be "better than Dean", whatever that means
theBearrestorer, i think it means i remembered the dudes name right <grin> how often and many times you planning on plug/unplugging this whatgever thing ?
restorertheBear: I'm not sure - I'm looking for something fairly all-purpose, that can suit plugging/unplugging multiple times daily or once a month
restorerto use on any of my DC interconnects
theBearconnectors vary a lot often mostly for a combo of those 2 requirements.... durability is important if you expecting many thousands of plug/unplugs for example, but ease may be more important if you only expect a few hundred over a short period
theBearrestorer, dc barrel jacks are good in many ways, so long as you ain't got idiots likely to stick the wrong things in em, but they also not real err, lockey i spose.... various size/style molex and even phoenix kinda chunky connectors (anything from pc drive kinda ones thru to big green phoenix things you often see in commercial i dunno, led lighting controllers and pfft, some fancier security (often ptz fancy ones) cameras i spose
Evidlo[m]theBear: anyway, my transceivers are differential and since both lines are floating my DC modules are behaving differentially as well, which is why I think I need balanced filters
theBearbut they are a bit firm/stiff to plug/unplug
Evidlo[m]theBear: let me redraw my diagram
theBearEvidlo[m], but how do you change a filter from balanced to unbalanced if your "gnd" is an arbitrary point, aka the 2nd wire
restorertheBear: yeah, I might've gone 4-pin molex style if they hadn't already given me too much hassle unplugging and plugging
theBearEvidlo[m], ya know what i'm sayin ?
restoreryeah, looks like Deans connectors are "difficult to grip" when disconnecting, to the degree that one guy glued sandpaper to them to aid in grip
Evidlo[m]theBear: Is that a trick question? Aren't all balanced filters used in situations where there isn't a real ground?
theBearrestorer, recently for some in-my-house-only kinda stuff i been using cheap kinda-compact/easy-to-plug 4pin mini-din, ya know, svideo plugs, for a pair of power and one of various signals, just cos they cheap and easy to get locally and wire up, and in this case it's convenient to kinda standardise/normalise a bunch of things i regularly use in various different configs on matching/compat connecties
tawrtheBear: ! *poke* *poke*
theBearEvidlo[m], but there IS no "real gnd", it's just an arbitrary concept we use to make drawing and thinking about electronics easier, pretty much
theBeartawr, umm, *rawr* ? howzit :)
tawrgoing extremely well bud, thanks. how you doing man?
Evidlo[m]theBear: I understand that. So if both transmission lines are the same, I think I need filters on both
Evidlo[m]I dont' just have noise on my positive line
theBearEvidlo[m], consider you got a multimeter set to volts, and two batteries connected to each other in series/in the middle... think of all the places you can put the probes and/or call anything from 2*batt voltage to 0 and the same the other way i spose, and how nothing is really different however you measure/read/name things
theBearEvidlo[m], i always figured in cases like we seem to be discussing, that little battery/meter err, thinking-game/challenge pretty much proves/guarantees what i trying to say gere
theBeari mean, i'm happy to have someone explain how i always figured wrong on that one, but empirical kinda evidence over many occasions always seems to agree with the way my head sees it, so far :)
Evidlo[m]So what are you saying exactly? that I don't need a balanced design?
theBearwell, at erm, i think more like IF everything is REALLY 100% floatey in relation to each other, that you can't avoid effectively having a balanced design, or at least very close to (i spose you end up non-symmetrical impedances at the filters, but i'm not sure anything beyond theory would be capable of comprehending that
Evidlo[m]assuming that a balanced design is indeed necessary, do I need to transform my source when converting from unbalanced to balanced?
theBearwell, i mean, can you (in context) really define any difference between either term/concept ?
theBearcos i pretty sure i can't
Evidlo[m]I'm not sure what you mean
theBearhmmm, when t here a lotta cloudey kinda stuff on a weather "radar" image/data, and it starts to look a lot like a big circle made up of straight lines coming from a centerpoint, is that just the nature/limit of a radar approach to observing such things ?
theBearEvidlo[m], i mean, how is "balanced" and different to "unbalanced" in this example/context ?
intranicktheBear likes dildos in his arse
theBearintranick, there's no denying it ! but i don't really see how that applies to his circuit today :)
linux_probeexcept intranick hogs them all
theBearsup intranick, brah ? (hehe, surfer hippie jackasses talk funny)
intranicklol nm brah
theBearhehe, i quite enjoy the episode of that ben10 show/series of shows (ya know, like how dragonball and yugio get extra bits appended/prepended to their names every once in a while, to up the ante i assume,) where his sidekick dude "rook" somehow gets infected/similar by the bodybuilder extreme sports kinda evil guy, and they end up in a big underground fightclub kinda competition
theBearthere a lot of bring it's and brah's and such in that one
theBearanyway, enough talk, it's time for me to kill an actual human ! oh wait, no, i mean ninja the eff outta hand-making this rightangle sata thinger from salvaged parts off of dead cables/drives
Evidlo[m]you can buy right angle sata cables for pennies
linux_probeACTION thinks nack to paying out the wazoo for right angle sata's
linux_probeway back rather
theBearprobly, tho this one gotta be small enough that there ain't any room between the back of the socket/plug bits for any cable/wire, plus, i want it now
theBearand ya know, my time is worth less than nothing these days, cos i'm a ward of the state and such :)
theBearalso, i DEMAND satisfaction <grin> later taters
N0ZYCgot yourself committed huh? :)
theBearnah, i maintain my own private quarters/asylum <wink> this time for real reals <click>
kcrowbe nice to theBear please
intranickim never nice to theBear
intranickhe's punch on sight. lol j/k
tawrinb4 ban in 5..4..
wizardyesterday.wubdiw 3
klyshttp:// I need to replace something like an ecg49. could someone help find this part on digi-key.com?
klysthe schematic shows the part in working order as tr22.
Evidlo[m]what window manager is that?
klysI don't use a de
Casperecg is ooold
SpeedEvilkiki_lamb: what is this
Casperbut klys... just enter the stuff you know in the parametric table
klyshttps://www.digikey.com/products/en/discrete-semiconductor-products/transistors-bipolar-bjt-single/276?k=&pkeyword=&pv812=186&pv812=178&pv812=188&pv812=173&pv812=46&pv814=64&pv814=44&pv814=48&pv892=7&pv892=20&pv892=3&pv892=5&pv892=64&pv892=6&FV=ffe00114%2C1280001%2C9300014&mnonly=0&ColumnSort=0&page=1&quantity=0&ptm=0&fid=0&pageSize=25 is what I have so far
klysI'm unsure of the parameters
PlectoCan an aluminum electrolytic capacitor fail short?
Casperbasically select equal or higher
klysit seems transistors this beefy are no longer made
CasperPlecto: of course
PlectoCasper: But it's extremely unlikely I hope? :(
CasperPlecto: unlikelly, not extremelly
Caspera ceramic cap... that is extremelly unlikelly, but it still happend
SpeedEvilklys: why do you think that part is dead
_abc_http://www.edn.com/design/systems-design/4458182/65-538-IC-circuit-adds-64k-bits-to-RAM :) not published on 01.04 for some reason
SpeedEvilAlso, link to the full schem
klysspeedevil, http://minuszerodegrees.net/oa/OA%20-%20IBM%20Monochrome%20Display%20%285151%29.pdf
_abc_ACTION will not look for a 74S999999
Evidlo[m]klys: http://www.ebay.com/itm/ECG-Component-ECG-49-Power-Out-Driver-ECG49-AF-/370628706088
klysspeedevil, it was running hot and then not hot, and was rusty, and besides I took it out of the circuit
PlectoCasper: I'm planning on adding DC blocking capacitor in case of failure, but if failure does happen the DC voltage will be much higher than the cap rating which isn't an issue as long as the cap fails open, but I guess I can't rely on that solution then :(
Evidlo[m]I just googled ecg49
CasperPlecto: crowbar and fuse/resistor
SpeedEvilklys: are you syure it's TR22, not TR23?
klysspeedevil, andother guess is that tr23 went bad.
SpeedEvilTR23 would be a usual part to fail
klysthat would be ecg379
_abc_Note I had a Hercules/Mono green monitor fried in college days by someone who ran non standard video modes on the machine, pushing it to hsync frequencies where the HOT was cooked and eventually went bang
_abc_@ klys
_abc_So plan to limit costs until you see the HOT is good, that being an irreplaceable part
tigelleoverclocked monitor
_abc_BU408 is a relatively common horizontal output transistor you can use many replacements for it.
_abc_I think even a BUT11 modern SMPSU driver will do in it's place.
_abc_BUT11 is used in led and cfl lamp drivers and is widely available
_abc_If TR23 is fried ALSO replace D502 and C504 with them
_abc_Without checking
_abc_Well BUT11 may run hot in that position but it is much more powerful and easy to obtain
_abc_I have not seen a BU408 on sale anywhere in like 15 years
SpeedEvilAlso - importantly - was this working before the failure
_abc_Btw HOT above means * Transformer not Transistor
_abc_T502 in the schematic, the Horizontal output and HV transformer
_abc_ACTION likes the dynamic focus hack in that schematic
klys_abc_, speedevil,
klyswas pasting that
klysanyway, yes I did see dos on the screen for a brief few seconds.
_abc_klys: ok so when you start it up after replacement of parts be prepared to turn it off FAST. And, as I said, also replace the little cap and diode near T23
SpeedEvilSeems plausible that the heatsink grease just dried out
SpeedEvil(I don't know enouh about this)
SpeedEvil(the practical repair)
klyswell it wasn't attached to a heatsink when I took it out (tr22)
_abc_klys: ECG379 looks like a BU408 drop in replacement but it may cost 5 times as much as a BUT11
_abc_10 BUT11A on ebay are $3.5. Do not buy from ebay.
klysI was wondering about replacing tr22 off digi-key anyway
_abc_klys: do you actually know it is bad? Went open? Shorted?
klysI don't know for sure any of them are bad at this point. it was running hot (tr22) and then after it went (presumably that one) wasn't running hot anymore
klyswell, will talk about this project on a later occasion.
SpeedEvilI haven't looked at the circuit properly. I would expect TR22s power supply to be derived from the HOT
SpeedEvilwith only a small amount of power available when the line output is not running
SpeedEvilthis means that when TR23 dies, TR22 can't run, though it is not of itself dead
klysI took the transformer T501 out also, and it seems to be working fine with a headphone test.
klysin the circuit it seems to have less stringent requirements than are listed in the ECG catalogue, perhaps I can narrow it down a bit more.
klysI am just looking at the current-collector cutoff (max) now and it says I can pick one at 500 nA or
klys1?A (ICBO)
_abc_TR22 is the driver, without it there will be no HOT pulses, so no operation at all. It is powered by the regulated 15V input supply.
_abc_klys: you can ignore the ICBO
klysok thanks
_abc_klys: TR22 would work --- unrelated but interesting http://www.edn.com/design/power-management/4440534/8-alternative-ways-to-power-a-laptop
klysand... https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/sanken/2SC5071/2SC5071-ND/3661816
_abc_klys: BD139 should do as TR22. You do not need 100V there... 80V is enough.
klyshmm ok
_abc_Well I'm in uirop so I roll off European types when needed. Anyway 1-2A switching transistor 80V should do there
_abc_klys: did you actually check these parts are bummed or not?
_abc_klys: does your dvm have a diodes scale?
klyswell it has a transistor checker
klysand that transistor probably requires more power draw to turn it on than the tester supplies.
_abc_BU408 is normal like that, TR22 even more so
_abc_Test them
klyswell, then it's being replaced. :o)
_abc_I do not remember by heart if BU408 has a diffused BE resistor in it or not. I think not.
klys_abc_, https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/fairchild-on-semiconductor/2SC5242RTU/2SC5242RTU-ND/1866816 for tr23 ?
_abc_230V suggests too low voltage also the case is wron
_abc_klys: just type but11 into digikey?
klys_abc11_, is 6A enough
klys_abc_ i mean, is 6A enough
_abc_Probably :) Your psu is rated 2A ...
klysoh right
_abc_it will run warm but okay.
klys_abc_, this then. https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/fairchild-on-semiconductor/BUT11A/BUT11AFS-ND/975717
_abc_http://www.edn.com/design/systems-design/4458183/1-bit-PROM-programmer-shows-status what is it with edn 01.04 projects showing up all over the place
_abc_klys: that is one option yes
_abc_klys: FJA13009 may also be a good choice
_abc_I would add a 100R resistor between T23 B and E. Pretty sure now BU408 has a diffused base resistor inside. Can't find a reference.
_abc_klys: if you ohm T23 B-E do you see about 50 to 100 ohms?
_abc_MJE13007 is an even better match.
_abc_In all cases add the 100R between BE of TR23 replacement
_abc_klys: ^
j4ckcomwhat is purpose of grounding point?
HrdwrBoBstraight up murder
_abc_j4ckcom: grounding points prevent airplanes from flying. To make an airplane fly, you disconnect the grounding point. The electrics in the airplane continue working.
_abc_ACTION watches someone's neuron curl up and die
klys_abc_, https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/panasonic-electronic-components/ECQ-E4393KF/EF4393-ND/56552 and https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/diodes-incorporated/SB1100-T/SB1100DICT-ND/278748
_abc_klys: too much trouble. MJE13007 + BD139
j4ckcom_abc_: i can’t understand it
_abc_BD139 is the oem recommended (SGS) driver for BU408
_abc_(Italy SGS datasheet, 1970s)
j4ckcomwhat is purpose of grounding point? help me
_abc_klys: so order a 13007 (various prefixes exist), and a BD139
klysis the mj13007
_abc_that's the one
_abc_13007 has various prefixes by manufacturer
_abc_and suffixies by case. You want TO220 or TO220AB from any manufacturer
_abc_Do not forget the 100 ohm resistor!
_abc_You need to add it to the circuit at BE of T23 directly. Non inductive 1W resistor.
_abc_Metal film will be okay
klys_abc_, did you see the cap and diode I linked?
_abc_I can't see digikey links, my certs in the browser do not let me see them... too old browser.
klysNTLM ?
_abc_Viola :)
_abc_SB1100 is a Shottky. You want a normal diode, like maybe BY399
_abc_klys: ^
klysBY399 are obsolete
_abc_I can still get them here
_abc_klys: try BYV26 that is not obsolete.
klys800V looks good, 600V was suggested (not an exact match to 15J)
_abc_C through E suffix.
_abc_B through E even
_abc_500 to 1000V
_abc_Wait, no, that's a 1A diode :)
klys15J2 matched a 1A diode
klysthat's how I found it
_abc_Then do get the BYV
klyslinked here https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/vishay-semiconductor-diodes-division/SBYV26C-E3-54/SBYV26C-E3-54GICT-ND/2684796
_abc_http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4655732/Pensioner-installs-10ft-antenna-roof-CB-radio.html :)
_abc_Interesting the not being able to afford a mobile phone. A simple car mounted 5W CB unit is more than a relatively nice low end android phone here, and the phone sim / minutes / prepay plans start from about 5-6EUR/mo for full service hundreds of ...
_abc_... minutes and internet data.
j4ckcomwhat is purpose of grounding point? help me
_abc_I wonder if the current car cb rigs sold in supermarkets and the like here are hackable for 10m ham band. Way back when that used to be the case.
_abc_ACTION sees mr. Overton's antenna problem: it has no counterpoise worth mentioning...
j4ckcomwhy people use ground point?
j4ckcomi think that ground point make it more dangerous?
_abc_j4ckcom: you are right, here we have lots of grounded outlets with 3 prongs where the 3rd prong is not connected to anything, so it is less dangerous.
j4ckcomwhy people use ground point? then?
HrdwrBoBpopulation control mainly
_abc_+1 HrdwrBoB
j4ckcomfor killing person? HrdwrBoB ?
_abc_*above: 'a 5W CB is *less* than a low end android...'
j4ckcomi can’t understand it
_abc_Hmm electric chairs must have very good grounding points.
Jan-hihi :)
Jan-hey guys. anyone for coffee?
Jan-ACTION brings refreshing morning coffees for all
Hoolootwonot right now
HrdwrBoBj4ckcom: we could fill thousands of books with things you don't understand
zigggggyACTION drinks Hoolootwo's coffee
HrdwrBoBSat Jul 1 17:49:29 AEST 2017
Hoolootwoit's 02:00
HrdwrBoBit's dinner time!
zigggggyHI BOB!
compowdo you know some easy hackable hardware to learn about consumer products
Jan-it's 0850
zigggggyACTION pours bob a coffee
Jan-where is it 2 am?
j4ckcomi don’t know why ground point is needed?
j4ckcom:( HrdwrBoB
intranickACTION slaps Jan- 
intranickawake yet Jan- ?
zigggggyACTION slaps intranick around a bit with a large trout
intranickhmm Jan-?
HrdwrBoBgood news though
HrdwrBoBI got the head off my car
HrdwrBoBand found the bent valve
HoolootwoI'm in Illinois
Jan-Hello, this is Jan. Jan hasn't quite woken up yet and is operating largely on autopilot, so please leave a message after the beep and she'll get back to you in an hour or so.
Jan-ACTION beeps
zigggggyHoolootwo your state is bankrupt :O
Hoolootwozigggggy: I'm even technically a state employee
Hoolootwofortunately I'm paid with grant money
Jan-ooh, zigg!
intranickJan-: heres my message :P
Jan-ACTION hovers above zigggggy's Gs, using a Bell Rocket Belt
Jan-ACTION deploys fishing rod with large hook
Jan-ACTION runs out of fuel *plummet*
zigggggy:O :(
intranickACTION covers zigggggy's eyes
Jan-ACTION struggles out from under a pile of Gs
intranickACTION hides mrpointy
Jan-damn things
Jan-21 second fuel endurance
intranickACTION hands mrpointy to zigggggy 
Jan-what the hell people
Jan-intranick we've been through this, I have spares
intranickJan-: but you know mrpointy is my favorite!
Jan-that's not mr pointy
Jan-that's a cunningly disguised booby trap
Jan-ACTION presses a big, red button
intranickwait wait
intranickby booby trap.. do you meen bra?
_abc_HrdwrBoB: don't you find bent valves by following the line of holes in the engine, bonnet, garage roof, etc?
_abc_What's the green juice in the 1st pic top?
Jan-_abc_ it sounds like you've got some experience with this.
_abc_Also, why did you cut the coolant line? Hose lock would not open and come off?
_abc_ACTION wonders if such an engine project is justifiable in any way, after other things got damaged too, cue piston head where valve impacted, seats, valve, camshaft probably slightly dented etc
archivistsometimes you have to take an engine to bits because all the broken bits remain contained
HrdwrBoB_abc_: the valves bend, you replace them
HrdwrBoBpiston is find
_abc_archivist: I see it as a compact package for landfill disposal by weight
HrdwrBoBunless they SMASHHH
Jan-argh. My dad is staying with us as he has an early train trip to take (with me) and we live nearer the station. But he takes ages in the bathroom.
HrdwrBoBthis is a minor bend
HrdwrBoBreplace one valve, move on
_abc_HrdwrBoB: there's a bit missing from the valve. Where did it go?
HrdwrBoBno there isn't
archivistI had a piston skirt fall off and I managed to drive 60 miles home
HrdwrBoBthe carbon buildup that WAS on it has come off
_abc_Also when the valve is bent like that there will be other invisible damage, the guide will be oval, oil seal may leak etc
_abc_Ah, ok
HrdwrBoB_abc_: ....
HrdwrBoBnot from that
HrdwrBoBalso what oil seal
_abc_You realize the valve rotates when operating normally, to equalize wear.
_abc_The oil seal on the valve stem
HrdwrBoBthe valve stem seal
HrdwrBoBwhich I'll be replacing as a matter of course
_abc_So when it is not straight every cycles sends the bent stem through the guide, making it wider.
_abc_What did it sound like? Lots of smoke, lots of noise? Vibration?
j4ckcomcircuit without resistor can’t flow?
HrdwrBoBit ran for a total of a few minutes with the bent valve
HrdwrBoBso meh
_abc_ok. Interference engines. Meh. Missing a few teeth from the belt?
_abc_Or just the tensioner gave up
Jan-ACTION finds _abc_ and HrdwrBoB's conversation hard to follow
HrdwrBoBno, the tensionser bolt snapped
_abc_Ooh quality metal.
j4ckcomcircuit without resistor can’t flow? HrdwrBoB ?
_abc_Was it like overtightened maybe?
HrdwrBoBit was cross threaded
j4ckcomif i connect one wiere ends to battery + and -, then there is a current? HrdwrBoB
j4ckcomif i connect one wire ends to battery + and -, then there is a current? HrdwrBoB
HrdwrBoBj4ckcom: Connect one wire to neutral 120V
HrdwrBoBone to active
HrdwrBoBhold one to your chest
HrdwrBoBand one to your bak
archivistj4ckcom, you have been in here long enough to know simple circuit concepts
archivistgo google
j4ckcomone wire end to 1.5v battery + and the other end of wire to 1.5v batter -, then current flow without resistor?
tgeekybattery is resistor
j4ckcomthen current flow tgeeky
tgeekyi didn't say that, but if the setup is b -> [- 1.5V +] <- a and you connect a wire between a, and b, then yes, a current will flow
j4ckcomtgeeky: if battery don’t have resistor, then current don’t flow?
HrdwrBoBthink of a battery like a power source, that chemically creates electrical flow.
HrdwrBoB... because that's what it is.
tgeekyj4ckcom: it's not possible for a battery to not behave like a resistor to some extent; but in that case the problem is not a lack of current flow, it's that current flow would be infinite
tgeekyin reality both the resistance of the battery and that of the wire add up
j4ckcomoh tgeeky thanks and battery of cuircuit on book means that they don’t have resistor?
j4ckcomin circuit of tutorial, battery don’t have resistor? tgeeky ?
tgeekyj4ckcom: oh, yes. In the most basic tutorials, they don't show the internal resistence of a battery
tgeekybut it is there
j4ckcomthanks :) tgeeky
archivistbasic battery tutorials DO mention the internal resistance
_abc_archivist: and Chinese torches RELY on it. No resistor to LED.
jammibatteries have evolved a lot since my childhood. the first rechargeables I got were some AA-sized NiCd for my rc car. would run maybe 5-10 minutes off them, I think the capacity might've been 600mAh per cell
specingjammi: I have some old nicd aa's rated for 600 mAh that are still 600 mAh after 20 years
phillidI have some that are like 60 mAh after 15
specingsure, some of them are like that
_abc_http://www.microchip.com/design-centers/32-bit-mpus microchip got into linux running ARMs?
archivistthe rest rotted destroying the pcb
jammispecing: these were from late 1980's or so, cost a lot but were much more economic than alkalines
jammilasted maybe a year or two
jammiafter that, they'd just drain too fast to be usable for anything
specingjammi: you probably didn't cycle them to restore capacity
jammidunno, I probably didn't have knowledge of such things back then
jammijust put them in the charger, waited, ran them again, repeat
_abc_Oh that mchip arm line is actually the Atmel one.
jammiond NiMH's lasted a lot longer than new ones as well, but then again, I don't use much of them anymore
jammiI've just converted most batterydriven things to use li-ion
_abc_I don't have any memory of "good" long lasting NiMH
jammi_abc_: late 90's one didn't have huge capacities, maybe 1200mAh or so, but they lasted for years
jammiwhereas now it seems they spoil just in the shelf
Snertplanned obsolescence
jammiyeah, or prioritizing max capacity over durability
jammisince 3200mAh sells better than 1800mAh, even if the the former are almost disposable quality
jammipeople just look at the numbers and go for the biggest number. marketing 101
jammiunless the number is price, then they go for the lowest
jammior some do some big number vs price number valuation and go for what they think is good bang/buck
_abc_Express the capacity in uAh
jammianyway, I think 18350's, 18650's and such should just replace the AA stuff
jammieasy enough to use chargers are good and cheap enough to be common household things, devices would just need to start shipping with them (in holders rather than embedded with soldered-on wires) and stores start stocking them
jammie-cigs have also done a lot about making them more common to people
jammiwhich it's in my case as well, the ones I recycle in other devices are ones that no longer hold the amount of capacity or provide the amount of current I want in my e-cigs
ZuuDoes anyone know what the process of welding solder flaps onto batteries is called?
jammiZuu: spot welding
_abc_spot welding
archivistspot/resistance welding
Zuuright, i imagined it was called something special when it was on batteries
Zuui want to know how to do it
jammiZuu: buy a spot welder
_abc_it is called §$%&!!!*% when you do it yourself
Zuuspot welders usually need access to both sides of the plate material to spot wled
Zuuthats not possible with batteris
_abc_There are several ads for spot welders for battery tabs on youtube. Go see @
jammiyou could do it yourself from some high-current source like supercaps and so forth, but it's going to be a pita to tweak them so that they don't just burn through the metal
_abc_Also they sell the special tabs which have a 'cut' in them and are made of Nickel metal.
specingjammi: 3200mAh ncr18650b has 300 cycles to 70%, something I'll never reach with my use
specingI charge them once a month at most
Zuuwhich is really why i asked the question in the first place, ebcause spot wleding is simple, welding battery terminals, dont seem so
specingand 3200 is not the biggest number
jammispecing: once or twice a day here
kremlin3200 is the highest number
specingjammi: what are you doing with them?
Hoolootwowonder if you could just tig it
specingkremlin: no, 3500 is
jammilike, flip open the e-cig battery compartment, plop out the drained 18650, put it into the charger, put the charged one on top of the stack holder of charged ones, take the one lowest in the stack and insert into the e-cig
jammispecing: vaping
_abc_I can sell you a 10,000 one.
jammialso, 2x00mAh variety, high-current ones is what I use
jammili-mn is the chemistry, I think
_abc_Was looking at rc flight LiPo's I don't understand why people bother with these 18650 toys. 20C is easy to get now.
tgeekywlithium manganese?
_abc_Smaller than 18650 too
_abc_For the same capacity.
jammisony vtc5a's are the ones I have in active circulation now
_abc_Also I saw some real men vapes in the shops yesterday, cue size like that of a 3 D cell flashlight.
jammi2600mAh, 25A
jammi≈60..70W settings, depending on the coil
jammi_abc_: I prefer the active ones, with means to regulate the power
jammiwhich means I don't have to go with wasteful use of batteries in so-called "mechanical mods"
jammiand they work just as well from fully charged until drained at the level the controller cuts the power
jammithat is, until the batteries old enough to no longer supply enough power
jammibut then they still have a good afterlife in devices that were designed for AA's
j4ckcomGrand Total Incl. Tax <— this means that tax included or not?
j4ckcomthis means tax included or not?
_abc_A couple of days ago I wanted to lower the room fan's rpm on the lowest setting. Too much noise. Now it's so hot I want to overspeed the highest speed setting instead...
_abc_Also 2 weeks ago hw stores were chock full of fans, yesterday the shelves were empty...
HrdwrBoBj4ckcom: it's possible you are the dumbest human alive
j4ckcomHrdwrBoB: what you mean?
phillidFucking lol
j4ckcommy IQ 158 i m not dumb
phillidok lid
potatoeyour IQ is definitely 158
potatoebased on past conversation
phillidThis coming from the guy mis-spelling his name intentionally
tgeekyi love it when people lie about their IQ going up into savantism territory
potatoehe's probs intentionally trolling
norklemy iq rises everyday.
_abc_People lie about their iq to get free food from the Mensa canteens
j4ckcombut i m beginner of electriciy only
phillidI should think so
ZuuMy IQ wrapped around, and is now negative :(
acetolineZuu: well, now you can be president of the united states
jammiiq is 8 bits, right, and obviously signed because old stuff
jammiso after 127 it wraps around
jammiwhich is also why those online mensa tests say they're only accurate up to about that
j4ckcomi will log out for a while
jammiand you need a paper and pencil evaluation to go higher
j4ckcomi must eat food not to die
j4ckcomi will log in again
jammieat nonpoisoned food, thath's the way to eat and not die
acetolinereading about global warming
acetolinesh-t's crazy man
acetolinewe are all doomed
jammiplenty of other species to go before us, though
jammiwe're to most animals like some killer cockroaches would be to us
HrdwrBoBpeople generally regard me as a smart guy
HrdwrBoBbut I can't compare to j4ck
archivisthe claims he has an IQ of 158
HrdwrBoBI know right
archivistI think he missed a decimal point
acetolinejammi: A destruction of the social order would be hell on Earth
acetolineit wouldn't take much, really
Inari-archivist: 158.00?
jammior entered his age after the comma
jammiand then it's corrected for a ≈0.2 year old
Inari-I wonder whats the lowest you can even get on IQ tests
acetolinejammi: the Earth can't sustain a billion hunter-gatherers; if agriculture broke down, there would be mass starvation, war, cannibalism, all of that nasty stuff that humans have been doing for 100k years and only just recently stopped doing
jammior confused birth year with current year
jammiacetoline: the earth can't sustain the current population as-is either, at least at the living standard almost everyone on the planet wants
jammia billion or so would however be sustainable with western living standards
jammibut not the 7-8 billion we have now, there's just no way around it
jamminevertheless the >10 billion it's projected to be within a couple of decade
acetolinea billion might be sustainable with modern agriculture
acetolinebut not if the agricultural system breaks down
jammiacetoline: yes, and general western upper middle class living standards
acetolinethere's basically no way to avoid 2 degrees of warming at this point
Inari-So you're saying we need to colonize space
jammino, decolonize the earth
acetolineI know you're joking but there are people who actually believe colonizing space is the answer
Inari-Same thing really
jammianyway, there's always a way nature works around the overpopulation situation
acetolineto which I say: brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrt
Inari-acetoline: Well its either that, killing al ot of people or dropping living standards a lot
Inari-Anyway, i like the idea of colonizing space, more arguments for it;)
acetolineeven if Elon Musk achieves his insane dream of sending a million people to Mars in 50 years, that's just like 0.1% of the world's population
Inari-Noone cares about Mars
jammiso inevitably we'll have something like a zombie apocalypse (probably not with actual zombies, but still), since there's no political will to get the population down in a controlled fashion, plus it's getting a bit late for that
Inari-Space habitats is where its at
Inari-You need an infrastructure
Inari-And mining
acetolinefrom the standpoint of getting people off Earth, makes little difference whether you set up a space habitat or go to mars
jammiwe can't get people off earth at the rate the population increases
Inari-Space habitats are better
Inari-Plus you build infrastructure to ease stuff
acetolineeither of those options would only ever succeed in getting a small, small fraction of people off the planet
acetoline99.9% of us are going to live and die here no matter what happens
jammialso, even if we found new inhabitable planets all the time and had the means to transport people to them, we'll run out of them
jammifaster than we could find new ones
Inari-Thats why you build sapce habitats
jammibecause of the matter of exponential growth
Inari-Cause panets suck
acetolineInari-: physics works against you.
Inari-How so?
jammiwe've basically doubled the population since my childhood in the 1980's
acetolineyou can only expand your civilization volume at a rate of t^3
acetolinewhereas your population grows as exp(t)
tgeekyanyone here have a proper, two channel, isolated power supply?
Inari-Have less population growth
acetolineexactly. Then you don't even need space habitats.
Inari-Also why t^3
archivisttgeeky, lots of us, ask a better question
Inari-Sure, but space habitats are kinda good to have either way
acetolineInari-: because of the speed of light limit
Inari-in case our planet dies or gets heavily damaged
HrdwrBoBwhoa wha
HrdwrBoBphysics has limits?
Zuuwe just need to remove the speed limits for cars
tgeekymeasure with an oscilloscope from the positive of one channel, to the negative of another channel; what do you see
Inari-Wait, how does speed of light relate now :P
tgeeky(without joining the other two plugs)
acetolineInari-: you can only expand into space at a maximum of c
acetolinetherefore the maximum volume you can expand into grows as (t*c)^3
jammiand most of that space is void of matter to expand with
tgeekyi see a positive half-wave
Inari-It'd take a while till you filled up the solar system
archivisttgeeky, to much effort for me, liable to be capacitive coupled, almost anything
jammiInari-: a century maybe, at the current rate of exponential population growth
acetolineanyway most of the matter in the solar system is useless for building habitats
acetolineunless you are thinking about disassembling the sun or something
Inari-acetoline: possible
Inari-Lots of asteroids and some moons with weak gravity too
jammistill not enough matter
acetolinethe total mass of all easily usable asteroids, moons, etc. is a negligible fraction
Inari-Well you can always extract stuff from the sun as said :P
acetolineand what can you do with hydrogen gas
jamminevertheless even enough matter to make more humans out of even if the solar system was consumed, for a population growth rate for a few centuries to a millennia or so
acetolinelast time I checked it's hard to live in a cloud of hydrogen
jammi(exponential such, at current rate)
Inari-The sun has more than just hydrogen gas
acetolineit's mostly hydrogen and helium
Inari-Yes, but its also huge
acetolinethe two major bodies in the solar system - the sun and jupiter - are hydrogen and helium
tgeekynearly all*
jammiInari-: exponential growth rate is huger than anything given enough time
tgeekysince when did I join #physicsnonsense
Inari-I still feel growth is somewhat better to regulate on space habitats instead of on earth, buts ure
jammiInari-: we'll have no chance to build space habitats in the first place unless we get population growth under control first
jamminot for a meaningful population size at least
acetolineI wouldn't worry about space habitats at this point
acetolineI'd worry about mass migration, starvation, and cannibalism
jammiand sheer survival once the societies collapse
Inari-The sun seems to have something like 10^23 tons of iron?
jammiInari-: you're still missing the point or not understanding the nature of exponentialism
Inari-Lets start by requiring licenses for people to have kids.
jammior just wait for a while and let nature take care of it in one way or another
tgeekyInari-: the heavier and heavier elements inside the sun are farther and farther inside; they are essentially inaccessable
Inari-tgeeky: Well I'm told htere are ways to get them out
Inari-https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pzuHxL5FD5U mostly that, or other sites about starlifting
jsoftI think I need some pet pigs
acetolineWe can't even change from fossil fuels to solar, you really think we can do 'starlifting'?
HrdwrBoBacetoline: it is inevitable
HrdwrBoBif we survive
acetolineA little bit of techno-optimism is cool once in a while but this kind of techie futurism delusion is part of the reason we are all doomed
specingacetoline: we can change, but it probably wont be to solar
Inari-acetoline: I mean, we're always crying about needing new jobs
acetolinespecing: then what
acetolinefusion? don't get me started on fusion.
specingacetoline: I'm already enjoying 0.028 eur/kWh price of nuclear
Inari-Also solar would be much better in space than down on earth \o/
j4ckcomwhen i can do electricity specialist? :(
acetolinespecing: nuclear is a great concept but we'd need to build 100x more nuclear plants than we are building now
specingacetoline: not really
acetolineoh yes, really
specingone single nuclear plant block covers 1/3 of the electricity needs of my country
acetolineI'm happy for your country but this is about the planet
specingstill not 100x more
acetolinethat's probably an underestimate actually
specingit would be enough if you started the ones that were stopped after fukushima
acetolinelet me dig up some figures
specingI think germany shut down like 10? of them
specingand austria has one that was cancelled before being finished
j4ckcomwhen i can do electricity specialist? :(
acetolineso apparently we'd need to build 115 nuclear reactors per year for 30 years to combat climate change
acetolineright now the rate is like ~5, and slowing down
acetolinebecause nuclear power is really really expensive
acetolineand it gets more expensive over time, mainly because in the past people ignored things like waste handling and decommisioning costs, which turn out to be really high
Smidge204So where does that number come from?
specingwaste hadnling will get cheaper
specingiirc russia already has a waste reactor
acetolineI'm not aware of any actual economic method of dealing with waste
p0g0_serial transumtation doesn't clean anything
acetolinethe most economic is to just let waste sit in used fuel pools
p0g0_"waste reactor" is like clean coal...
acetolinereprocessing, which is done in Europe, is a negative economic drain
p0g0_well, the storage pools are terrifying if you know much.
Smidge204But so pretty~
specingyou can swim in the storage pools if the rods are intact
p0g0_drain one...
p0g0_That was the real risk at Fukusshima, c. 400T of SNF
specingalso the local nuclear powerplant emits less radiation than the coal fired one
p0g0_self ignites when fresh
acetolinethere's no question that coal is terrible
acetolinenuclear >> coal
p0g0_NORMs are an issue, but their radiance is actually pretty small, the nucliides are well out their decay curves
specingacetoline: But without nuclear there is nothing to replace coal
p0g0_neither of those are a working solution.
specingacetoline: there just isn't
p0g0_use reduction?
specingavailable hydro is finite, solar doesen't work during the winter, wind is intermittent,...
specingthere is nothing stable
SnertWhy did mankind put 53 nuclear powerplants on mountain tops in the ocean?
specingbut coal
Flea86acetoline: There was an article published ~100 years ago warning about the downsides of using coal
p0g0_that has been a working method for decades, the base loads on power plants here has dropped.
Smidge204specing been drinking the koolaid
Flea86acetoline: Which is interesting, at a time when nobody cared about the environment back then
p0g0_Flea86: yes, in an NZ newspaper iirc,
Flea86Cannot recall if it was a NZ or AU paper
Flea86bit before my time :p
acetoline'baseload' power is mostly a myth
acetolineon the wholesale power market, electricity use is negotiated and planned days, even weeks or months in advance
acetolinebasically, you know exactly how much power is going to be required, and when.
jsoftp0g0_, whats this NZ stuff?
Smidge204Wind is not as variable as people think it is
p0g0_The US right now is about to game the numbers again, Perry has called for a study to look at federal subsidies to all power sources except coal and nuclear... that's cheating. The Kemper IGCC plant just quit using coal, and that white elephant cost us 7B$+ to fail.
acetolinethe variable, unpredictable component is mostly around domestic power, which is a small percentage of total power
jsoftOh, hydro.. yeah most of NZ is run off of hydro. Also power factor is tits, like ~0.7, and so we could correct that to get more bonus powers.
acetolineyou can simply plan for electricity use when wind and solar are available. It's simple as that.
Smidge204acetoline: Distributed storage solves basically all fo the domestic variability problem
p0g0_jsoft: one of the first published reports on CO2 and energy capture in the aptmosphere.
acetolineSmidge204: also smart grids.
p0g0_maybe the first, it is the oldest one I know of.
jsoftp0g0_, energy capture in the atmosphere??
Smidge204I'm less sold on smart grids TBH
acetolinewell I'm not well-researched on smart grids, so I don't want to say too much
p0g0_jsoft: what is a greenhouse gas? How does it work?
acetolinebut it seems like a promising avenue anyhow
jsoftI dunno. Somehow some gas which supposedly breaks up O_3
Smidge204Specificallky there's the idea that electric car owners could have their car's battery contribute back to the grid. That seems so dumb to me.
p0g0_jsoft: nah, you have the physics all wrong.
acetolineSmidge204: why
jsoftp0g0_, erm ok
j4ckcomtera milli micro nano pico
Smidge204acetoline: What if my car gives back 10% of its charge on the one day I actually need a full battery to get through the day?
p0g0_The thing that is bugging me now is the utilities lobbying for penalties to charge the solar folks to offer energy to the grid.
Snertit's about industry protectionism, that's why. It's not about energy.
acetolineSmidge204: well I guess the idea is that you set how much you want to give back to the grid
j4ckcomtera milli micro nano pico
p0g0_If someone has electricity they want to sell the grid, that ought to get base or spot price, like they big boys, not a surcharge.
jsoftp0g0_, what do you mean charging people for using energy from the sun?
jsoftp0g0_, that is outright outrageous
acetolineand that the incentives would be such that having it connected to the grid would be more cost-effective to you than sitting in the garage at 100% all day
acetolinebut I don't know, haven't done much research on that
Smidge204acetoline: Sure, but something unexpected comes up but I don't have enough charge 'cause I was feeling generous that day... so out of caution I'd not share any of it.
acetolineyeah I hear you
p0g0_It si becoming common in the US, some states, like mine, have laws that require the utility to permit the power once it meets grid standards, but the coal etc industries want to penalize that.
jsoftp0g0_, what do you mean 'permit' the power
p0g0_jsoft: why does your car get so hot in the sun?
Smidge204However, home storage would be fine since in practice I'd ahve the grid as backup
p0g0_jsoft: electricity has to meet phase and voltage to work
gde33I suppose such creativity is the main advantage of privatized utilities
jsoftp0g0_, I thought you said off the grid stuff
acetolineIf the world got together and embargoed Saudi oil, we'd fix terrorism overnight, and go a long way towards solving climate change
acetolinebut we continue sucking the Saudi c_ck
jsoftp0g0_, you talking about greenhouse stuff again?
gde33acetoline: the economy would collapse, and with the economy I mean the arms trade
p0g0_jsoft I certainly did, the point is that your grid runs at some voltage and phase, you need to match that with your solar to make things work.
jsoftp0g0_, lies
jsoftp0g0_, off the grid implies off the grid, who gives about what the grid's phase is up to
p0g0_jsoft: if you want to add your current to the grid, you must match those.
jsoftSo thats _not_ off the grid then.
jsoftI understand what you are getting at now though
p0g0_you are missing my point about selling the extra power to the grid
p0g0_now, back to the physics of greenhouse gases
gde33we should change it into a lease buy contract
gde33so that you end up owning a coal plant
p0g0_jsoft: have you never experienced getting into a car that has been out in the sun?
p0g0_How hot that car is?
jsoftp0g0_, sure
gde33there is a youtube of someone baking cookies in a car
p0g0_jsoft: so why so hot?
p0g0_the seat is way hotter that the stuff outside, and so is the air inside.
jsoftWell the air just keeps getting hotter and hotter.
p0g0_the energy came in the window, why not just leave the same way?
gde33newtonian mechanics
jsoftWell the air has nowhere else to go in a great hurry
p0g0_and no
jsoftWell its like a thermus isnt it ?
p0g0_what is the optical property of CO2 that is like glass?
jsoftI do not know much about CO2.
p0g0_visible light passes the windsheild glass without much reflection
p0g0_but does infra-red?
acetolinethe light coming from the sun is mostly visible and short-wavelength IR, the radiation leaving is mostly long-wavelength IR, CO2 absorbs the latter much better than the former.
acetolinethat's what p0g0_ is trying to say
p0g0_so, the energy enters the car as visible light
jsoftHmm ok
p0g0_and heats the seat
p0g0_the seat re-emits as IR
jsoftOhr ight
p0g0_and that is trapped by the window reflecting IR
jsoftOk and the CO2 in the air absorbs the IR ?
p0g0_CO2 does the same thing
jsoftOh the glass?
jsoftAhh ok
jsoftWell I was not aware of how that worked
acetolinethat's just one of the mechanisms though
acetolinethere are a bunch of other interactions and feedback loops
acetolinefor example, water vapor
p0g0_so, if you want to help folks understant global warming, and I am very serious about this, make them sit in your hot car while you explain it to them
acetolineatmospheric water vapor actually traps more heat than CO2, but water vapor is in a constant equilibrium with the surface
p0g0_acetoline: yes, I am looking for a very simple and practical explanation to convey the notion to folks without much science background, usually my neighbors.
p0g0_the car thing works
acetolinebut with more CO2 in the air, temperatures rise and shift this equilibrium, with air becoming more moist, and trapping even more heat
gde33ask them to turn around then slap them over the head and say "you didn't see that comming now did ya?"
p0g0_it also works becuase people are far more receptive to the thinking when they are hot. Put them in an air conditioned room, and they opt for denial more.
jsoftWell understanding wavelengths and stuff might be a bit odd for non sciency people
acetolineclimate change denialists try to turn this around and say "why aren't we worried about water vapor then? huh?"
acetolinebut we _are_ worried about water vapor; that's the point
p0g0_jsoft: yep, and that is OK, it is our job to make this understandable.
acetolinealso there are a bunch of other long-term, complex interactions
p0g0_it mostly works because almost everyone that has a dog in the fight has been in a hot car.
acetolinelike hotter temperatures melting arctic sea ice, which reflects light, to water which absorbs light
jsoftI dunno, Ill leave that kind of stuff up to you.
HrdwrBoBthe real problem is
HrdwrBoBmost people are idiots
p0g0_the phase change "ices" are a huge issue, metabolic rates, etc
jsoftEveryone is an idiot in some way or another
p0g0_HrdwrBoB: I'd go for "a few really greedy bastards" more than idiots,
acetolineHrdwrBoB: I think if most people understood the depth and breadth of the problem, they'd be horrified enough to act.
p0g0_We have had the science sorted for decades, it is the pushback, the willful muddying of the facts that has been so dangerous to us all.
acetolinebut there are powerful interests that spend billions of dollars to keep people from understanding the problem
HrdwrBoBacetoline: most people struggle to make it through life
jsoftacetoline, depth and breadth of global warming you say ?
HrdwrBoBunderstanding how to fill in forms
jsoftForms are a pain in the ass though.
acetolineI struggle to fill in forms, and I have a PhD
acetolineit's not that they are hard, it's that they are tedious
HrdwrBoByeah but you get my point
acetolineI do
HrdwrBoBI mean, the greedy crazy people are the problem
p0g0_acetoline: there is good research to validate that "Too much knowledge" notion, folks get to despair too soon.
HrdwrBoBbut the majority of people are 'in the middle' so to speak
corecodePhD is no certificate on being smart tho
Snertpromulgation of the status quo is what it is.
HrdwrBoBcorecode: haha true
jsoftYeah and being happy about filling out a form isn't either
acetolinecorecode: well 'smart' is a loosely defined term
corecodeit's a certificate on being tenacious
acetolinebut I'd say if you have a PhD, you are at least good at something.
corecodeyea, at spending a lot of time on a subject
p0g0_Snert: stopping progress makes the current winners happy, but it is taking more effort than usual to arrest this progress.
corecodeare we talking about climate change?
corecodeand what are our conclusions?
p0g0_no no, just happy stuff
corecodeis it happening?
acetolinecorecode: we are doomed.
p0g0_beyond doomed
corecodemaybe you are
corecodei'm fine
acetolinethere's basically no way to avoid 2 degrees of warming at this point
corecodei have an AC
corecodewell are those 2 degrees bad?
corecodeexcept for coastal regions ofc
corecodei mean, globally
p0g0_hell in a bucket doomed. We're going to exceed the T regime where most biotics can operate, our very proteins will denature.
acetolinecorecode: yes. very much so. Read this http://globalwarming.berrens.nl/globalwarming.htm
p0g0_we're already in the 6th largest extinction event
gde33my conclusion is that if we want to travel deep into space we will have to invent the free energy machine. Its fine of course if you want to regligiously subscribe to knowing the unknown but you wont have space travel and you will have global warming.
corecodeacetoline: so would it be better if the earth was 2 degrees colder than it is right now?
p0g0_corecode: why do mammals thermoregulate?
p0g0_what happens to you when you have a high fever?
corecodep0g0_: because then they can be in many different places
p0g0_some animals, some places, so far
corecodefalse analogy
p0g0_corecode: there is no evolutionary mechanism that can accomodate the rate of T change
acetolinecorecode: 2 degrees means Amazon rainforest gone, the eastern US constantly battered by super-hurricanes, australia uninhabitable, billions starving
jsoftWhat is T change
p0g0_Temperature change
jsoftOh right
jsoftHah :D
corecodeacetoline: so would it be better if earth was 2 degrees colder than it is right now?
jsoftaustralia is uninhabitable ? Only because its got auzzies in it.
acetolinewell, if it was 2 degrees colder it would be a massive ice age
acetolineso i'm not sure what you're getting at
ZuuI have trouble figuring out how all the "li-ion battery charger protection modules" are supposed to work.
p0g0_If you can face an ugly bit of math, the Hardy-Weinberg equations map the success of a given allele in a population, Try to find the heterozygosity to "evolve" that fast and see if you can make the numbers work. They don't
gde33maybe a convincing argument would be to remind people how hot it is underground.
corecodeacetoline: okay
acetolinep0g0_: :(
gde33we have this thin shell of solid rock to live on
Zuutake this for instance: https://tinyurl.com/ybrlatef
corecodeso we have been basically in the optimal temperature point (until industrialization)
ZuuI cant figure out if i can use that thing for actually controlled charging of li-ion cells
gde33how does heat radiate away from earth into a vacuum?
ZuuIts the same for all modules, i find. they dont explain anything. so if anyone have any hints, that'd be great :)
gde33doesn't sound very efficient
corecodeZuu: no, that's a protection board
acetolinecorecode: optimal is hard to define, but we've been in a pretty constant climate up to ~150 years ago
corecodehow do we know that?
acetolinethe holocene was remarkably stable until industry happened
gde33bioengineering is the key
acetolinecorecode: ice cores and other methods
p0g0_corecode: we had a few billion years to learn to love the T and CO2 regime we've existed in. Earth has had some big changes tho, pre chlorophyll, for example.
corecodei mean, how do we determine global temperatures to fractions of a degree?
corecodep0g0_: yea poor plants starved themselves of food
p0g0_satellites and thermometers
gde33corecode: they do do that for gravity and the speed of light
corecodep0g0_: how does that tell us temperatures of the past?
acetolinecorecode: with lots and lots of accurate measurements and cross-checking
paulrsjust ask trump how hot it is over 3 concesutive years
corecodeyea but what do they measure
gde33trees give a good clue
acetolinewell, ice cores give a lot of info
p0g0_corecode: records of some kind, some written by humans, some as ratios of isotopes and chemical mixtures
corecodeyea but i don't know about what is measured with ice cores
gde33humans are unreliable
acetolineO2 isotope ratios, water composition, trapped air bubbles
jsoftdiddnt they find the speed of light changing?
jsoftSame with big G ?
p0g0_in a vacuum?
gde33jsoft: they make an average
corecodeoh, o2 isotope ratio is influenced by temperature?
gde33jsoft: Ruppert Sheldrake is into questioning this calculated constante (that goes up)
p0g0_iirc, some wee bit of gravitaional lensing has been recently reported, I am not sure I'd go long on that notion yet tho.
MrFahrenheitI'm trying to measure the offset voltage of an opamp (lm358, should be 2mV), so I made a 101 gain feedback loop and tied the non-inverting input to ground, so the output should be in the 200mV range, right? but it's only around 100uV
corecodeheat it to 85 degrees
corecodeor cool it to -45
jsoftMrFahrenheit, At what frequency ?
acetolinecorecode: if you want a light intro to ice core science, read http://www.antarcticglaciers.org/glaciers-and-climate/ice-cores/ice-core-basics/
corecodejsoft: offset is dc
acetolinethere are also some great links there
jsoftwell thats odd then isnt it! :)
acetolineover shorter timescales (<10000 years), you can also correlate ice core data with tree rings and so on
acetolinethe data matches pretty well
Mangy_Doganyone here do 3d printing? Im considdering building a hypercube based 3d printer from scratch. As it seems to be the best... and cheapest option for me. But I need to know a few bits if i could poke some brains
corecodewhat is a hypercube
corecodethere is #reprap
Mangy_Dogdidnt know that
crtThe dog and his equations
p0g0_re all the "hell in a bucket" climate stuff, there are things to be done and humans are remarkably creative. The dunce cap governance recent to the US will help by perversity, pretty much anything they appear ready to advocate is the thing to _not_ do.
p0g0_(That would be Pruitt and Perry)
jsoftMan, still going on about the climate
jsoftIt's almost as if you think you live in it or something
p0g0_jsoft: it seemed worth a closing note, but I was done...
p0g0_we started with nuclear, my folks were in the industry.
p0g0_it just went on from there.
p0g0_sorry to offend
jsoftIm not offended you hippie :P
georgioshow would a resistors'plus one coil wire, braid work as am entropy collector?
archivistjust use a mah bukket for that
acetolineentropy collector?
archivistpeople are taken in by pseudo technical terms on the internet
HrdwrBoBI collect entropy in my bank account
p0g0_I am entropy in action...
phillidI collect it in my armpits when I don't wash
HrdwrBoBphillid: as are we all
phillidGood to hear
HrdwrBoBp0g0_: even
phillidThat works too
HrdwrBoByeah :)
MrFahrenheitwell I think I have the answer to my lm358 riddle: seems like the one I tried was damaged, despite it looking like it worked most of the time
jsoftMrFahrenheit, ahh good news
jsoftI accidentally blew one up the other night
ChrisauWho do you all use for low qty PCB manufacture and assembly - ~5-10 pcs
_abc_HrdwrBoB: do you consider your Astra engine a lemon, or is it worth fixing in despite of visible and possibly hidden damage?
_abc_Chrisau: everyone uses something else
ChrisauWho do you use
_abc_Interesting, I am monitoring cpu temp in real time, with fans and stuff on, since it's 33 degC in the room, and it reacts almost instantly to load changes.
_abc_Way more than 10degC/sec slope
_abc_Chrisau: I use a cnc mill I programmed to engrave pcbs for small runs
_abc_With the weather so hot, I'll go back to college days strategy. Sleep all day, work/study all night...
Flea86_abc_: Sounds like a plan
Flea86Chrisau: I am in the process of shopping around for a good pcb house too, don't know who I will jump with next for my pcb needs
Flea86as for assembly, I can only recommend myself :P
ChrisauWho have you used in the past Flea86
Flea86Chrisau: I've used allpcb but results have been mixed
Flea86also crt \o
ChrisauYeh ok
crtWelcome flea
ChrisauFor your own assembly do you do SMT or through-hole
Flea86Chrisau: Both, I used to work in assembly as one of my first ever jobs 20 years ago :D
crtChilling after 6 days on
FalseAscensionCurrently stuck in the waiting lobby for the hackerspace because apparently my name was removed from the members list..
Flea86crt: Cool
Flea86FalseAscension: Bummer
ChrisauFlea86, awesome! Do you do paid work?
FalseAscensionI'll go see if they can double check, maybe they misheard my name
jsoftSo whats it like getting blokes to assemble the things for you?
Flea86Chrisau: Nah, I'm reluctant to even do my own work :/
jsoftIs it a pain in the ass? I've only made PCBs and shoved things on them myself, what is the process and extra work required?
Flea86Chrisau: Where you at?
mr_boowhich is most effective to make an air core inductor with as few turns as possible? 1) short coil with many layers or 2) long coil with fewer layers
jsoftWhats the formula... L = (N^2 * u * A) / l ?
jsoftIt seems the smaller the l better
Flea86Chrisau: Ah, I used to work up there for six months back in 2008-09.. :D
ChrisauOh nice
mr_booso the most effective air-core inductor is a disc?
ChrisauYoure in NSW/VIC?
jsoftChrisau, well it kinda seems like that.
Flea86Chrisau: vic
mr_booi must say this is a surprise
jsoftmr_boo, well tesla was dicking with pan cake coils for some time
_abc_pancake coils are nice if you also want them to be antennas. Oherwise, not.
_abc_And no it is not a disc it is more like a set of thin donuts with larger diameters and *fewer* turns each
_abc_With some distance between them
HrdwrBoB_abc_: er, I clearly said I was fixing it
HrdwrBoBalso any 'hidden' damage
_abc_HrdwrBoB: sure but that may be a personal preferrence issue :)
HrdwrBoBif I can't see it, isn't there or doesn't matter
HrdwrBoBhow can it be hidden
crtThe roof tiles are in desperate need of replacement
_abc_I mean the car is probably worth 1000-3000EUR, you are going to put how much money into it now?
HrdwrBoB... $200
HrdwrBoBless, actually
HrdwrBoBone valve, and a headgasket kit
HrdwrBoBpaying someone to do this? yeah, crazy
_abc_The head gasket is not glued on that engine, right?
HrdwrBoBwhat engines are the head gasket glued on?
HrdwrBoBthat seems like a terrible idea
archivistgasket compound is not really a glue
_abc_http://avherald.com/h?article=4aaf9a3a&opt=0 read the comments
_abc_archivist: all French engines since the 1990s
archivistbut does set and fill in spaces
_abc_it's not gasket compound, it's a weird shit which requires complete cleanliness before application
_abc_Also seals the oil pan underneath.
g0zI hate cars
_abc_crt either more bong or less. The current leven is disturbing.
g0znever know if you are making the right decision w/ repairing them once they are old enough
g0zcause then 3 more things could fail right after it
g0zor it could last another 100k miles
_abc_archivist: actually later 1980s. You should know, I think Citroen was one culprit.
_abc_*the current level even
HrdwrBoBheadgaskets should NEVER have any sort of goo on them
_abc_HrdwrBoB: you never fixed a French car, then
HrdwrBoBwell no
HrdwrBoBbecause I have never owned, and likely never will own, a french car
crtI seem to have misplaced my sewing kit!!!
computer-noobdoes anyone know where i can buy 24-bit color RGB "reflective" LCD modules?
computer-noobfor example, the screen used in the Gameboy Advance is a 15-bit color RGB reflective LCD module
_abc_crt: you can close the bleeding hole with superglue.
Flea86shameless hobby promotion :p
_abc_Whoa Flea86 why stop at 1 bga, have 5 at once already
_abc_Flea86: what do you use for pcb design? altium?
Flea86_abc_: Nope. Kicad.
specingI don't see what the ohm board offers that the big ones don't
specingthey all have retro ports
_abc_later guys
specingand the PCI-e, DP, ... port boards are overpriced as hell
Flea86specing: I figured that I could cook up something better than a retro port hat :)
Flea86but hey I gotta start somewhere
specingyou slapped wifi on it when rpi already has wifi
Flea86specing: My board has a few other things going for it.. like Giga Ethernet
specingnah wait, thats something else
computer-noobdoes anyone know where i can buy 24-bit color RGB "reflective" LCD modules?
specingthat board below is not rpi
specingI thought it was rpi
Flea86specing: Nope, it's my board :)
FalseAscensionWhat's a good alternative to the 28C16 EEPROM? Would like to make https://eater.net/bbcpu8-output-register/ , however cant find any 28C16 specifically
Flea86*it's also
specingBut then I looked up and saw its yours
specingbut you mentioned rpi and the layout is similar
Flea86specing: Also much smaller
Flea86just not zero small :p
FalseAscensionoh my gawd that is awesome i just found a couple chips coated in clear resin
FalseAscensionYou can see the dye!
Flea86FalseAscension: you can also do that with windowed EPROMs too :)
FalseAscensionWell, yeah, this one is completely clear though
FalseAscensionNo part number, no idea what it is
Flea86Perhaps it's some kind of optoelectronic sensor?
FalseAscensionfound part number
FalseAscensionTLS220 "light to frequency converter", but online shows themall with black resin
Flea86Thought so :)
FalseAscensioni cant find any EEPROMs
FalseAscensiononly EPROMs
FalseAscensionsad days
archivisteeproms also known as flash
FalseAscensionyeah ik
FalseAscensionany common EEPROMs i should look for? Not really sure what i'm looking for, just need any old EEPROM
FalseAscensionThat's what i wa slooking for
Flea862864 etc.
FalseAscensionooh i think i saw one of those
FalseAscensionI found an 82HS181
computer-noobdoes anyone know where i can buy 24-bit color RGB "reflective" LCD modules?
paulrs24bit ?
FalseAscensionHow can I really not find a single EEPROM? Whole ton of EPROMs, no EEPROMs...
computer-noob8 bits per channel (r, g, b)
paulrsyeah sry i was confused
paulrsnone on aliexpress ?
computer-noobnot that i could find
computer-noobi ended up sending emails to a bunch of different cmopanies
Smidge204FalseAscension: Looking in all the wrong places?
FalseAscensionSmidge204: Perhaps. Just dug through a hole box of ICs though, at least a million EPROMs
Smidge204Stock-on-hand only
FalseAscensionAnd how the heck are there no 555s?
crt555 hehe
maidOr are the fluke probe extenders only compatible with fluke multimeters
maidNobody knows ?
HrdwrBoBer, it's a probe...
stationdose anyone have experience with these China UPS? https://de.aliexpress.com/item/single-output-Waterproof-switching-switch-power-supply-dc12v-33A-400W-ac-dc-converter-for-Led-strip/32560178854.html?s=p
HrdwrBoBthat's not a UPS
HrdwrBoBthat's a power supply
tpw_rulesmaid: what "probe extenders"?
tpw_rulesi have a fluke probe kit and it just ends in 4mm banana jacks
tpw_rulesi don't see why it wouldn't fit anything that accepts them. they are shrouded though
stationor thisone https://www.aliexpress.com/item/35W-12V-3A-universal-AC-UPS-Charge-function-monitor-switching-mode-power-supply-SC35W-12/32356603021.html?spm=a2g0s.8937460.0.0.EcuLr0
tpw_rulesmaid: oh those. they'll fit any probe with ".080 in (2 mm) O.D. Tips"
tpw_rulesthey probably fit best on fluke probes
tpw_rulesbut for the record i do have those and they work pretty excellently with my fluke probes. haven't tried them on any others
tpw_rulesbut they're super nice for probing
maidSo they can be put on extech ex330
maidSomebody know ?
ChrisauFlea86, do you know what it costs roughly to have a PCB board made and pick/place assembled? Im looking at potentially combining an Arduino Uno and a single shield into one board, with only the parts I need. Ballpark idea of what I can expect roughly for say 5-10pcs? As in, $>200?, >$500?, >$1000?
wrwill a device like this http://www.mixtronica.com/3931-thickbox_default/pinca-amperimetrica-1000a-dcm266.jpg make multimeter function too?
JFK911Chrisau: sounds like something you could do by hand, but price depends on everything
JFK911does your EDA generate control files for the pick and place machine
ChrisauYeh, bit of a vague question
JFK911and do your footprints support that
ChrisauNot sure, am new to PCB manufacture. Using Eagle PCB
robopalwill you provide the parts to the fab house?
tpw_rulesmaid: does the extech have 2mm tips?
tpw_rulesChrisau: non-paid ad: i've been using macrofab
tpw_rulesthey're super simple. just upload your eagle pcb and gerbers and they'll instantly give you a quote
ChrisauWhere are they based
ChrisauYeh ok
tpw_rulesthey take a few weeks
tpw_rulesbut you just upload your files, select your parts, and it tells you how much
ChrisauOk ill give it a go cheers
ChrisauNeed an account to get quotes tpw_rules?
tpw_rulesyou do but all you need is an email and they don't seem to spam it
ChrisauIm off for now, thanks for the help
promachFor http://i.imgur.com/kHUPUIp.png , which IO pins would be suitable for testing 5V UART softcore ?
archivistpromach, are we supposed to guess what is in that fpga
gurkithats an intresting question for somebody using sdram with his fpga^^
oleoa gold shitting donkey mebbeh
MyCuriosityare the free series "Lessons In Electric Circuits" pointed out in the channel's topic the best place to start in your opinion ?
JFK911thats like asking whats your favorite color i think
archivistACTION points at brown which is not in the spectrum
EuroTrashYeah, and whether you're going to use that color to paint your house or pick flowers.
archivistor become an expert in frequency
JFK911i'll pay ten dollars for a brown led!
archivisthmm rgb led and some resistors...profit!
SopaXorzTakerin falstad circuit one capacitor has suddenly canged its value
SopaXorzTakerdid cosmic rays flip a bit in my memory?
synx508One of the buttons on the IR remote for the RGB LED controller that I used recently was brown, but I refused to call it brown in the API (it was controlled over the internet using google home voice commands)
j4ckcomin parallel why voltages are same?
synx508so it was terracotta
archivistbut terracotta has a lot of red in it
synx508so did the actual LED light, the printing didn't though
synx508on the remote
j4ckcomn parallel why voltages are same?
j4ckcomhelp me
EuroTrashStay stupid, stay lazy.
archivistgets stuck on the simplest of concepts for days/weeks
j4ckcomarchivist: i read book by myself without any help that process is too late 😰
j4ckcomNo one help me
j4ckcomso i m too tired
SopaXorzTakerIt's pretty scary, as I've been reading some post about somebody's relative dying today
Rob235what can I use to connect two stepper motors into a robot arm
archivistRob235, are you asking a mechanical or electronic question
archivistdepends how accurate and powerful you want
Drakoniteduck tape.
archivistharmonic drive for best
Rob235Ive been looking at aluminum rods and nema 17 mounts but cant find anything that works together
archivistyou generally have to make something
Rob235maybe I should use wood then, I dont have the tools for that
Rob235what about plexiglass, can you cut and file that down or will it just crack without good tools
archivistyou can make spacers
Drakonitethe last time I played with robotics and tried to make something that wasn't a kit, I came to the conclusion I wouldn't be able to do that until I had a machine shop
Rob235I have a dremel so wood is still looking like my best bet
archivistlathe and pillar drill as a minimum
SpeedEvilAlso a phased plasma rifle in the 40W range.
_abc_Flea86: I see a single problem with https://hackaday.io/project/13048-flea-ohm-fpga-project/log/62405-pre-production-fun-and-more : your ESP8266 location places it's antenna under parts on the other side. It should 'hang out' into the breeze, beyond ...
_abc_... the board edge.
SpeedEvilTo infinity and beyond!
_abc_Or is that on the mezzanine board and empty of traces. Even if, the dielectric added will detune the antenna
_abc_SpeedEvil: let's call it hanging over the edge 'a foot in the door' relatively to infinity :)
SpeedEvilHigh K dielectric antennas have limited effect from PCB dielectric constant
N0ZYChigh K ?
SpeedEvilCeramic antennas
SpeedEvilhigh dielectric constant.
_abc_SpeedEvil: that is a FR4 meander antenna.
SpeedEvilah, nvm then
_abc_Doubling the amount of FR4 under it will have some measurable effect.
_abc_Also I need to FINALLY get myself together and mount the gps ceramic antenna I got weeks ago.
computer-noobhello i am looking for 24-bit RGB (8 bits per channel) ~REFLECTIVE~ LCD screens
SpeedEvilACTION puts on the 70s antenna-mounting music.
redrabbitACTION thinks about all the stuff he got "weeks ago"
SpeedEvilcomputer-noob: I'm fairly sure there aren't any.
computer-noobnone of any size?
redrabbituse a mirror
SpeedEvilThere may be transflexive displays, but they do not have good colour reproduction, and are very limited.
SpeedEvilAnd not very available.
_abc_Btw are there embedded IPS displays you can buy and use now?
_abc_They have much better display visbility angles than TFT.
_abc_http://avherald.com/h?article=4aaf9a3a&opt=0 Ctrl-Alt-Del on non Microsoft products. Scary!
_abc_Fortunately in aviation they omit the "let's get out of the car and get back in" part seen in the engineers @car failure joke.
redrabbitmy phone from 2012 have an IPS display
SpeedEvilPixelQI was I think the only commercial attempt at a colour transflective mass market display.
_abc_redrabbit: everyone has an IPS display excepting high end AMOLED and low end TFT ones.
SpeedEvilI note that pixelqi.com is now domain squatted.
SpeedEvilSo I don't think that went very well.
redrabbitdomain squatting is sad
computer-noobis this legit? https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/5-inch-24-bit-RGB-800_1956224233.html
_abc_I wonder if epaper or simple transparent/black tft lcd's will finally come out with the ability to 'see through' them, meaning, bezel allows them to have a hole in the pcb behind so they can be used as a hud or similar
_abc_Your average 1602 lcd can be interesting when used with sun derived backlight for example, or as a hud part.
redrabbitcomputer-noob: the company looks legit
SpeedEvilcomputer-noob: you should in general always assume that most listins on alibaba will have significant numbers of significant errors in the listing.
redrabbithttps://is.alicdn.com/img/pb/356/254/891/891254356_528.jpg lol
JFK911_abc_: http://www.vincentwlee.com/uploads/6/1/5/2/615286/9805668_orig.jpg
_abc_JFK911: yeah that is one aplication :)
JFK911we had this commercially in the 90s
SpeedEvilcomputer-noob: for example, I would be astounded if that would work well in the sunlight.
_abc_JFK911: much smaller projectors too
JFK911i cant find a modern one
computer-noobi have seen transflective color displays a lot on youtube
_abc_JFK911: in theory, if you peel off all the plastic layers on a modern laptop lcd you can do as above.
JFK911there was even a laptop that had a removable display back so it could sit on such a projector
SpeedEvilcomputer-noob: It would need to say 'sunlight readable' in massive, massive letters, and be more expensive than the typical display, probably.
computer-noobi just want one that is 24-bit
SpeedEvilcomputer-noob: seen where.
computer-noobjust youtube search for color transflective
JFK911who can see 24 bits of color?
JFK911space jews and mantis shrimp?
SpeedEvilcomputer-noob: Do you mean actual displays, or do you mean prototypes that never got to market.
SpeedEvilcomputer-noob: there are _lots_ of the former.
SpeedEvilerr - latter.
computer-noob24-bit sunlight readable
tgeekyfalstad circuit simulator also has an analog filter simulator (though he doesn't seem to link from it on his site): http://www.falstad.com/afilter/
redrabbit"Transflective displays are more efficient than their transmissive cousins, but the power savings is offset by a loss of contrast. If they’re not viewed under direct sunlight or bright ambient light, transflective displays have a tendency to look washed out."
computer-noobyeah i'm aware
_abc_transflective is not 'transparent'.
_abc_Most small digital lcds are already transflective. So is my watche's lcd.
SpeedEvilThe fact that it's got 24 bit input does _NOT_ imply anything meaningful about the colour reproduction
_abc_just use the msb for bw :)
SpeedEvilcomputer-noob: the above listin is also typical of many - it's not one product
SpeedEvilcomputer-noob: It's that they can do transflexive, sunlight readable, and colour LCDs
SopaXorzTakerall of my RF oscillator experiments in a nutshell: https://xkcd.com/730/
SpeedEvilThere is no specific product they are advertising that does all of them.
redrabbitits called a chimera
redrabbitbe pragmatic dawg
SpeedEvilA hint in this case is that the price range is ridiculously wide, implying it's not a single product, and the lack of meaningful data, but the presence of lots of sort-of-related products on the page
SpeedEvilcomputer-noob: what are you actually trying to do
computer-noobbuy a 24-bit rgb transflective or reflective lcd module
computer-noobso i can use a computer without killing my eyes
SpeedEvilI think it's fair to say they don't exist.
redrabbitget a quality screen and lower brightness when necessary
tgeekyshit, with the rate I use a computer, my eyes must already be dead
SpeedEvilIf you want all of those.
SpeedEvilWhat is important is 'DC backlight' or whatever the term is - a non-flickering backlight.
redrabbittgeeky: same.. plus i use 27 & 32"
redrabbitlots of radiations lol
SpeedEvilPWMd backlight at lower frequencies causes eyestrain in some.
redrabbitmust be with shitty screens :x
JFK911just pwm the backlight in sync witih your refresh
SpeedEvilJFK911: _no_
JFK911tv's do it
SpeedEvilIt needs to be >>1khz to be 'smooth' from the perspective of the eye
SpeedEvilAlso, playing with ambient lighting may help
computer-noobwell there are 18-bit reflective displays
tgeekyi think my habit of masturbating with my head turned 60 degrees is probably worse for my eyes than regualr computer usage
computer-nooband the gameboy advance is a 15-bit reflective
redrabbitcomputer-noob: install F.lux
redrabbitthat will help with the eyes
computer-noobi like being able to see the pixels with natural light
computer-noobi actually like the "washed out" look
redrabbitand always adjust brightness & constrast
tgeekyi absolutely hate f.lux
synx508just print everything
SpeedEvilcomputer-noob: 'bit' means nothing. The GBA is not close to actual decent 15 bit reproduction even.
redrabbitf.lux will give you that low contrast look computer-noob
computer-noobyeah im awre
computer-noob@ speed
redrabbiti use chicken lights as well
redrabbit(red color)
redrabbitat night
_abc_synx508: can you get wikipedia on ream fanfold paper?
redrabbitthey help keeping your pupils not too dilated
computer-noobhow fundamentally different is reflective versus transmissive lcd tech
redrabbitand dont blind you
redrabbitso a red light helps with eye strain
redrabbittons better than regular lights
_abc_I find red lights very annoying at night. Blue is fine.
tgeeky* in an already dark environment
redrabbit_abc_: blue keeps you awake
_abc_Also you can still see the reds with eyelids down, blue disappears.
_abc_redrabbit: depends how strong it is.
_abc_redrabbit: 1 3mm led lights a room just fine, blue.
computer-nooblink redrabbit ?
_abc_Need to dim it even
computer-noobi'm assuming white light with red plastic wouldn't work
redrabbitcomputer-noob: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Philips-Infrared-Heat-Light-Lamp-E27-Bulb-100W-150W-250W-220V-230V-physiotherapy-/252900444635?var=&epid=1603044392&hash=item3ae20a89db:m:mdhZp4yneBaUyCJVPix0ydA
ThePendulumwhat would you recommend for a 12V 100A (2.4W) relay diode, a 1N4148 which is fast or a 1N4007 which is slower but beefier
redrabbiti use theses bulbs
redrabbitjust found this link
redrabbitusually they cost more like 10$
redrabbitthis link is a rip off
_abc_redrabbit: our older train carriages had a blue painted small bulb in the light fixture, at night, you'd turn off the light and the blue would stay on to not bump into people. Absolutely invisible eyes closed.
redrabbitand i put them in chicken lights fittings
tgeeky_abc_: all current ships use red lights in the cabins at night
redrabbit_abc_: well. i shut down the red light at night
_abc_Ships may be different, I do not know.
redrabbiti cant sleep if there is any light
redrabbitwhat i mean is, when you are awake on front the pc it helps with the eyes
redrabbita lot
redrabbitcomputer-noob: http://www.ebay.com/itm/INFRA-RED-HEAT-LAMP-Poultry-Chicks-Pigs-Lambs-Light-Bulb-5m-Cable-with-Cover-/171651121799?hash=item27f7344287:g:5cEAAOSwa39Uv8vN
redrabbiti use theses
redrabbitthe pricing sucks on my links tho, just for illustration
redrabbityou can find them cheaper
tgeekythey make little red glasses for chickens
redrabbitalso, i use them daytime
redrabbitwhen i feel cold
redrabbitthey are awesome
computer-noobwhat is the red plastic or glass for
redrabbiti have one dimmed, pointed at the ceiling
redrabbitso i dont feel the heat
redrabbitand another one on top of me
redrabbitone for light, one for light and heat
computer-noobSpeedEvil: do you know of a high-Bits/Channel reflective screen with good color repro?
redrabbitprobably the best way to keep your ass warm in winter times as well. it doesnt dry the air
SpeedEvilcomputer-noob: as I said above, I do not believe they exist.
SpeedEvilcomputer-noob: the only attempt at something for the general computing market was pixelqi, and they died.
redrabbitanybody knows if there is a way to wake up an ESP on contact lost
redrabbitand not on contact done
redrabbitbasically so i can use a wire for a door sensor that would wake up the esp when open
redrabbitatm im using a reed switch and its great. but its working when the contact is done between D0 and RST, so can't replace that with a wire
redrabbitalso its confusing, i can only tell if there was door movement. not if open/closed
computer-noobwhat's the barrier from going to 15-bit bad-color reflective to 24-bit decent-color reflective SpeedEvil ?
computer-noobit just bugs me that i have an okay reflective screen in front of me, and i can't purchase a bigger one with more colors
redrabbitone thing is sure, the manufacturers know
redrabbitmaybe ask them :p
computer-noobapparently lots of companies produce them
tgeekyjesus are we still talking about this
bongofurywonder if any androids have that
jaggzI'm really tired of batteries that die
^7heoI'm really tired of reality.
^7heothings break, they suck, etc.
jaggzmany devices don't need the power nor duration between charges that we'd need, say, for a cellphone, and would work perfectly fine with some type of solid electrical advanced capacitive (not classical film/whatever-based capacitors) device
jaggz^7heo, don't forget dealing with people
CCFL_Manis there any cheap way to calibrate a thermocouple amplifier?
GottanameCCFL_Man, ice + boiling
jaggzI haven't used my computer drawing tablet in a year so it's dead and has to stay plugged in to use
Gottanamethe same way you calibrate a damn thermometer
Rob235if you use a belt/pulley to rotate an arm will it be tight or will it wobble easily
Gottanamejaggz, what kind
Gottanamewacoms don't die
jaggzuse the water around the ice probably
jaggzGottaname, why the hell are you saying that.. it's a lithium battery
Gottanamejaggz, wait wut
CCFL_Mani guess i need to refrigerate the water and put ice in it
_unreal_arg.... https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?1754154-RC-EYE-One-from-RC-Logger/page115
Gottaname> I haven't used my computer drawing table
Gottaname> not wacom
_unreal_wish I could figure this video thing out
CCFL_Manso the ice won't mekt too quickly
GottanameACTION is triggered
jaggzCCFL_Man, well, the problem is, ice can be colder than 0, so..
jaggzbut the melting ice is right at 0
_unreal_all I want to do is take the video out signal from the camera side and pass it to a HUD then back to the VTX side
_unreal_but I cant figure out what wire is VIDEO out?
jaggz(or close enough.. impurities, y'know)
_unreal_never been able
Gottanamejaggz, what tablet do you have
GottanameACTION frowns at jaggz 
jaggzCCFL_Man, I've not dealt with calibrating things, just thinking about the rules :)
jaggzGottaname, some intuos one
CCFL_Mani suppose that is why you pay $$$ FOR CALIVRATION
Gottanamejaggz, wat
Gottanameintuos don't die
Gottanamejaggz, I got a graphire 2 from 98 that still powers on
jaggzCCFL_Man, people pay for good quality, and they also pay for their lack of knowledge
jaggzGottaname, the lion battery is dead; I said it still works when plugged in.
jaggzbut I'm using it on my lap while sitting cross-legged
kuribashi, my new keyboard is interfering with my speaker, I get a whine through the speaker when I enable the led lights on the keyboard.
Gottanamejaggz, replace it then ya autist
kuribasThey both go through a KVM switch.
jaggzGottaname, I'm not asking for your advice -- do you always lead your life giving out dumb obvious advice to people who are discussing a different topic?
jaggzokay, so what types of capacitive systems exist where they can store abundant charge but, in the mechanism itself, it has constraints on output current?
kuribasWould a powered usb hub fix this problem?
Gottanamejaggz, ask stupid questions, get stupid answers
jaggzkuribas, speaker is powered by usb?
kuribasjaggz: no, but the keyboard is
jaggzkuribas, never experienced that.. hrm.. what kind of system is it?
kuribasjaggz: a gaming keyboard with illuminated leds.
kuribasI am guessing it uses PWM for the led intensity.
jaggzkuribas, no the computer
kuribasSomething I build myself
kuribasA PC
jaggzhmm.. why would its usb interfere with the audio.. that seems really bad..
jaggzwhat mb is it?
kuribasAlso I have only one hole in my desk for all the cables
kuribasjaggz: what does the MB have to do with it?
jaggzyou have an actual physical separate soundcard?
kuribasno, sound goes from the computer to the KVM switch as well
jaggzbecause I haven't bothered with separate soundcards for like 18 years :)
kuribasit's probably coupling in the switch, or otherwise in the hole where all the cables are bunched together.
jaggztest it?
jaggzoh.. no ability.. hmm
jaggzmaybe the audio cable you could run separately and see if, even bypassing the kvm, ..
jaggzjust to test
jaggzand audio cables normally use ground as the shield right.. so that can pick up noise too no?
kuribasyes, it can come from the grounding
kuribasWhy don't these keyboard have proper filtering...
gurkiwhy would they
kuribasso that people don't have these problems?
jaggzGottaname, being a smart-ass isn't actually necessarily wise. Practice being more perceptive so your "wit" can be developed and, even if you can't get it to some useful point, at least it might be entertaining. :P
gurkilul. the whole point of leds in "gaming keyboards" is to be able to sell a 50 cent feature for 50 bucks
jaggzyou're sure it's the kb?
gurkibesides its not so unlikely, that pwm is gonna have some thousandish hz
jaggzmaybe the kvm is lame, assuming the kb doesn't have such strong signal
gurkiid kinda blame the keyboard, id suppose that it lacks sufficient caps at the power input
gurkibut thats guesstimating
gurkii dont know
blighthiiiiiiiiii guys
jaggzeven on one of my desktops I got to, apparently, hear the video changes in the speakers
jaggzwas kinda interesting .. like hearing what was on the screen
kuribasThe problem is much less when I bypass the KVM switch, but it is still there.
blighthow do you mean hearing whats on the screen? like a different sound when you move the cursor?
jaggzblight, if something different were on the screen -- if something changed color or a new window would be there..
blightjaggz: that can be normal i believe, or too much LSD or something :D
jaggzit was difficult to differentiate between it being a "processing" thing, or strictly what was on the screen at the time, but being that it would change and then stay stable (mostly), it seemed directly related to what was on the screen.
kuribasif I use a powered hub, would the noise currents go through the hub instead?
jaggzblight, or not enough!
jaggzdepends on the quality of the hub.. if you have one, definitely try it
jaggza good one should isolate the power but, again, you might be dealing with all these antennas.... :)
jaggz(that's plural for "antenna" >:(
jaggzneurons are antennae
idonobSome computers just seem to have poor shielding or audio circuit designs and aren't well suited to high quality audio so much as being able to make sounds to claim they cover a basic featureset
synx508multiple Rebeccas, Rebeccae
idonobI wouldn't expect home stereo quality audio to pass through a KVM as much as I'd expect to get away with telephone quality audio through the same KVM
kuribasI am not after stereo quality sound
kuribasAnd the problem is gone when I turn the leds of
idonobThe volume level the speakers are set to can sometimes play into how much you hear random interference noises as much as anything else too, nevermind the quality of the speaker system you have
idonobI have a set of some kind of overhype logitech "gamers" speakers on my desktop workstation
synx508get a sound card and amp with balanced connections, no more problems
idonobit sounds nice enough at low to mid-high volume, but past about 75% it has it's own inherent noise I can hear from it
synx508don't, have problems that vary in proportion to the quality of stuff that you have around
kuribasI'd need an amp before the KVM switch then.
idonobwhich just makes other buzzing like noise on a line in cable from another PC even worse
kuribasActually two, one for my PC, one for the mac mini.
synx508you could use network streaming audio
idonobThe desktop itself has a Z97 Pro motherboard in it which brags about focus on audio quality in the board design, and does okay at it
synx508and forget the kvm
idonobokay enough that I gave up on my old PCI auzentech prelude anyhow
synx508that way you have no sound cards to mess up the sound
kuribassynx508: I tried that before with pulseaudio, to my HIFI installation, but it didn't work so well..
kuribassynx508: also it would need to be compatible with linux, windows and mac
idonobMeanwhile my home stereo is a hodge podge of repurposed stereo speakers from an old panasonic cassette unit, a woofer/class-D amp unit from altec-lansing, and a second yamaha subwoofer all fed through a graphic EQ
idonobI only hear buzzy noises in otherwise silence from that when I turn things up past 90%
synx508apparently symless.com (synergy) will have a nice product that does all that one day
synx508as it is, they have a nice product
idonobthe PC feeding it audio is a boring jetway mini ITX T7600 system
synx508I used to run synergy years ago, multiple monitors, each connected to its own computer, but one keyboard and mouse
idonobit's *horrid* for noise isolation but makes less noise inherently than the logitech speakers themselves - nevermind all the other crap stacked in
synx508idonob, if you had some audio transformers you could probably solve the problem with them
synx508you could break the ground loops and stuff that generally cause the noise
idonobsynx508: It's mostly that the amp in the logitech speakers is a load of cheaped out crap
idonobI could probably help it with a recap but it works mostly well enough for something from the curbside
idonobI think there's a thing about input impedances on the amplifier side of things that plays in, but I can't really remember all this stuff properly
idonobtoo much crammed into my attic
kuribasputting a capacitor between the keyboard and hub wouldn't help right?
kuribasCouldn't I just make a filtered 5V supply, and connect that to the keyboard 5V and GND, then connect GND, Data1 and DATA2 to the KVM switch?
jaggzI think so
jaggza big cap with a resistor on the computer side of things would also work though no?
tlvbassuming that the charging/discharging circuit handles over/under-voltage protection, is this a reasonable protective setup for two in-parallel li-ion cells?: http://imgur.com/a/6Wq7R
tlvbie one fuse in series with each cell, and a balancing resistor between the cells, before the fuses
SpeedEvilWhat is the 'balancing' resistor there for
SpeedEvilIt does nuffink!
SpeedEvil(polyfuses will have a resistance of several tens of ohms in the 'tripped' state.
tlvbI pretty much have no prior knowledge of polyfuses
cesardvFuchikoma: Viper-7 hi guys, like promised yesterday, here's the pics of that LED solar light http://imgur.com/a/QRSIx
tlvbonly tens of ohms though?
SpeedEvilRead and understand the datasheet
SpeedEvil100 ohm would surprise me.
tlvbit seems I had a wrong view of what a polyfuse would do
j4ckcomwhat is frequency aircon remote control is?
j4ckcomwhat is frequency aircon of remote control ?
SpeedEvilWhatever the maker has chosen.
SpeedEvilFrom IR, to 2.4G, to more.
j4ckcomi want to hack remote control of school, because they don’t turn on it. :(
tlvbI wonder if I would be better of with regular fuses
SpeedEvilj4ckcom: Find legal requirements for temperature in schools, and write a formal complaint, escalating to the highest level.
j4ckcomSpeedEvil: but i want to go through h4ck3r’s way
j4ckcomit is my way 8)
specingSpeedEvil: you think there are any?
SpeedEvilspecing: I would be surprised if there are no limits at all.
specingI would be surprised if there are limits
specingmost likely it just says that they have to provide a suitable environment
specingor not even that
specingthe vast majority of schools here are gov funded
j4ckcomSpeedEvil: my way is good?
spludj4ckcom - goy your HackRFOne yet?
j4ckcomsplud: lol who are you?
j4ckcomwhere you are instead of ##electronics?
j4ckcomsplud: ?
spludYou were here weeks ago wanting to hack the car remote because your father had misplaced his fob, right?
j4ckcombut i never talk about hackrf 😱 to you.
weyland|yutanihttps://youtu.be/EzedMdx6QG4 telephone scammers getting it payback
spludweyland|yutani - don't know if related, but some guy who ran a bunch of robodialing here in the states got busted and levied with a massive fine.
spludAs if it'll ever get paid.
weyland|yutanisplud, nah its a guy hacking into the telephone system of those scammers
spludI personally have taken to answering the phone and playing a spazztic disc jockey on KSPZ radio 120.7 on your FM Dial!
spludAnd telling them they're caller number 10...
splud"Are you a regular listener?" "yea!"
splud"Okay, what's the word of the hour" "uhmmmm"
splud"Nope, that's not it! Sorry, you don't win. <click>"
spludSo, I received some of those RCWL-0516 doppler modules in the Post yesterday.
j4ckcomfrequency is made by electron? splud ?
spludSoldered headers to one and tinkered a bit. Can't seem to get it to give me much more than about 10 feet of range (versus 5m, or circa 15 feet).
spludHas terminal labelled 3V3, which apparently is 3V3 output from the one IC (no separate regulator) because it is internally regulated. However, I find it works better if I actually apply 3V3 there (from in my case, a switchmode), because it's only managing 3.05V or so regardless of the voltage that comes in on VIN (which sparse online docs say can take 4-28VDC).
spludIt's pretty spiffy in that it can pick up motion several feet on the other side of say a closed door (even a solid hardwood door, not just hollow core).
spludSadly, it's just a high/low output signal, not something representing range or approaching vs receeding.
spludI was rather thinking it'd be a more efficient way to run an electric fence (around a small enough area) - only power the fence energizer when there's something nearby.
R3GT1CWhy do you want an electric fence?
spludI have electric fence around my garden. To keep out deer, wild turkeys, and some other pests.
R3GT1CWhat kind of voltage and stuff does that have?
R3GT1Cis it dangerous for people or it’s just a zap?
R3GT1CHow do you know if it’s safe and won’t be deadly ever?
spludMine is circa 800V. They're available up to like 6KV for livestock.
R3GT1Choly shit man
R3GT1Cthat’s insane
spludWhen I first installed several years ago, test #1 was grab the wire.
spludit's a short pulse low current. Very unpleasant - enough so that you know that you don't want to grab it.
R3GT1Cshort pulse? Do you have something in place that will recognize if the resistance increases or something and shuts off the power?
spludIt's a commercial unit, not homebrew. They have protection circuits.
splud(and the little pilot light on the energizer flashes as the fence is energized).
R3GT1Cokay I’ve never done anything with high power so I wouldn’t know. That just sounds so crazy to me haha. It makes sense though
spludor rather, discharged.
spludFence will erode plants touching it.
spludBut I still keep things around it cut back.
R3GT1C800v though wow
R3GT1Cwhat kind of circuit prevents you from instantly dying when you touch something like that I wonder
spludEver shuffle your feet around on a carpet in dry weather?
R3GT1Cso like that kind of shock?
synx508R3GT1C, a resistor?
spludWell, static electricity is multiple KV.
R3GT1Csynx508: but if you touch it, and your resistance is much lower than the fence, then you will be receiving most of the current, regardless of the resistor you put
spludbut very low current (in the case of shuffle, not so much in the case of lightning strikes)
synx508R3GT1C, no.
spludNote that the fence is pulsing. It is not a constant current.
R3GT1Csynx508: do you have an elaboration or do you just reject current dividers in general?
synx508No and no.
R3GT1Cso it’s pulsing to create static electricity
R3GT1Cit’s not actually the current flowing from the 800v that zaps you
synx508It's not static, it's pulses, they're limited by a series resistor
R3GT1Cit’s whatever it builds up on the fence
spludI have a few of those cheap electric flyswatters. Opened up the things and wired in a connector to plug in an 18650 LiIon cell instead of 2x D batteries (so 3.7-4.2V instead of 3.2V max with super-fresh D cells)
spludKinda supercharges the things. And is also lighter as well as rechargeable. Anwyay, I have one out in the barn to zap wasps and such here and there. Was out there a couple of weeks ago and heard some rustling in a box.
spludBrought over a large plastic trashcan and quickly grabbed the box and dumped it upside down.
spludMomma roof rat and her brood.
R3GT1Csynx508: what’s the point of using 800v if you’re going to limit the current by a series resistor to lower the current? Could you elaborate? I think the circuit is probably more complex than a single resistor on the output.
spludNow what to do? Grabbed the zapper, as they're all jumping around inside the trash can trying to get out. A couple of landings on that thing, and they're stunned.
synx508the resistor is mostly you
synx508and the soil
synx508I suppose you could be unlucky and be close to the point where the thing is grounded
spludHigher voltage enables getting through fur or feathers.
spludWell, would certainly improve things to run a ground wire along the ground and multiple stakes...
R3GT1CI would just pour gasoline on the barn and let things take their course. fucking hate rats
spludWell, some of these have had easy entrance through openings at the base of sliding doors. I'm working to rectify that.
R3GT1Csynx508: people’s resistances change depending on how wet they are, what clothes they’re wearing etc. It can vary immensely. I doubt the line between life and death when people build electric fences would rely on your resistance.
spludI don't like them either. Momma made decent bait in a cage trap which a couple of days later had a skunk in it.
R3GT1Cwhere do you live btw splud?
spludNorth of San Francisco
splud"Wine Country"
restorerthis LED tape really isn't very sticky
spludWe're outside of a town, unincorporated area. People on one side have a horse barn, I have an intact barn (technically a chicken coop - all 2200 square feet of it), there's several other agricultrural structures visible from our property.
R3GT1CIs that like a hobby or are you a farmer?
spludrestorer - I just recently put in some LED strip lighting outside under the front of our house - stuff has adhesive on the back, but yea, isn't going to do the job for long -- I ziptied the ends and middle of each length.
spludR3GT1C - it is our home. Hobby - I'm an embedded software engineer, my wife works for a little internet startup called Google.
tawrsplud: just came across this, I thought you'd might find it interesting. how expanded metal is made: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHoI2leMOGA
spludExpanded, or extruded?
tawralso in related is how preforated metal is made
restorersplud: yeah, this is as bare as it gets, exposed LEDs and resistors, in a 5M spool, with pretty bad adhesive on the back
R3GT1Cinteresting hobby splud.
restorerat least it's very light, so when it fell off the wall last night, the electrical tape temporarily securing the connections held the bottom end up
restorer(just playing with a foot last night)
restorerthe strip itself is a bit wavy between 3-LED sections, and even on the spool it had separated from the waxy backing in many places
CCFL_Mananyone know of any ready made pic code that can sample the output of a thermocouple amplifier, linearize it, and display it on an LCD?
spludrestorer - you might consider mounting LED strip on top of a "picture hanger" trim - much like crown moulding, but it doesn't bridge clear from the wall to the ceiling.
spludthat little pocket at the top allows the tape to be mounted facing upwards.
restorersplud: most of it will go above the trim of a window (and maybe below, or on the sill itself)
restorerit just doesn't like mounting vertically, I guess, without something securing it at the top and bottom
spludMight find it secures okay to a strip of something more smooth. A strip of acrylic, or even aluminium/tin sheet, and you could screw that piece into the frame.
spludmost walls are pretty porous.
restorerI'll have to look into the rental contract here, I don't know what they stipulate about screwing things into the wall
restorersplud: these walls are painted a fairly shiny, but textured, apartment-type paint
spludUsually falls under "normal wear and tear". People hang pictures. So long as you're not perforating the wall like birdshot...
spludBut yea, good to check with your lease and local regs.
restorerit's a brand new apartment building
restorerI can patch any holes I make, but they'll be obvious against the darker color of the paint
spludDon't use large screws of course.
restorermaybe I'll find a stud-finder kit to put together :D
spludThe texture tends to be the drywall underneath. I like "eggshell" paint finish - it is between flat and semi gloss.
restorerthis is practically full gloss :-\
restorerseems really common in apartments renovated or built in the last 10 years
weyland|yutaniso its probably a latex based paint
spludfull gloss is more for trim, and semi gloss is appropriate to bathrooms and kitchens (wet areas).
spludI just spend time in the past couple of weeks doing paint work, <g>
restorersplud: okay, feeling the wall behind me, it's not full gloss, maybe semi, certainly the bathrooms and trim are full gloss
spludNeed to go and check the post today. Later.
restorerI've painted some rooms in my childhood :)
restorermostly after having the job of scrubbing them with TSP...
restorerbut all the apartments I live in up in Sacramento, and this new one down here in LA, all have surprisingly glossy walls
restorerI lived in*, over the last 6 years
restorerI don't know if it's a new thing
flybackACTION runs over splud 
restorerboth my childhood homes had eggshell or less glossy
restorerhah, I could get a Walabot radar camera to find studs in my walls :D
heller__anyone know how to connect a solar charge controller on a boat parallel to alternator
heller__what if solar charge controller AND the engine alternator both charge the same battery?
restorerheller__: I have no experience with that (yet), but I'd suspect it'd work out of the box, wired to the battery
restorerthe charge controller should have its own reverse polarity protection
heller__i mean if i connect the battery to the charge controller AND to the engine alternator
restorerheller__: yeah, I understood :)
heller__but there should be no reverse polarity. only two devices charging the same battery :)
restorerthe charge controller should prevent the alternator from backfeeding into the solar system
restorerthat's the only major concern I can think of
restorerjust charge controller, battery, and alternator, all in parallel
heller__so basically its no issue if current comes from two ways? :)
restorerright - that's the reverse polarity protection I was referencing
restorerif it's cloudy and the alternator's pushing 14V+, it won't feed into the solar charge system
heller__dont believe it does
restorerthat would be... backwards polarity, pushing current up the + connection of the charge controller
heller__its not a cheap charger
restorereven if it somehow didn't have that protection (inconceivable!) all it'd take is a diode
sclltrok i bought a legit hakko this time since everyone said i need temp control yesterday
restorersclltr: I'm just starting to learn where to set my bad knock-off :D
sclltri heard the counterfeits arent that bad
sclltri got one
sclltrbut i returned it because i paid hakko price for it
restorersclltr: yeah, that's what I heard, just that the calibration is usually way off
restorerI paid just under $20 on eBay
restorerfor a 936A clone
weyland|yutanithat walabot thing is awesome
sclltrwhat i dont get it
sclltris how come selling a counterfeit item is not prosecuted like using counterfeit money
sclltrits technically the same thing
restorerweyland|yutani: I *just* saw this the other day, too https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fJEm7X_ZuQ
curlyearsheigh hough
restorersclltr: it's not actually branded as Hakko - mine is, uh... "KKMoon" or something
sclltryeah the one i had was hakko branded
sclltralmost completely identical to the regular one
restoreryeah, that's no good
curlyearsI hear Hakkos are REALLY nice
sclltrthe main difference was that it was using an atmel chip
restorerusually it takes a certain bulk of sales to attract law attention
sclltrand hakkos do not use atmel chip
sclltralso the iron didnt seat properly
sclltrlike i have a bit of disposable income so its no big deal, but i was just thinking like some hobbyist who saved up for one, getting screwed like that, shits fucked up
heller__restorer: what do you think, should i connect load to LOAD output or straight to the battery?
restorerheller__: I don't know how your boat's wired or what would be safest
restorerif I were doing it to my car, I'd probably attach (+) to battery (+), and (-) to the groundwork of the car somewhere convenient
heller__restorer: well, at this moment the engine's alternator is charging the battery
restorerheller__: I mean, I have no idea what the LOAD output is on your boat - my only experience is in cars, and not enough that I know of an equivalent there :)
heller__restorer: the LOAD output is at the charge controller
heller__charge controller has 3 terminals
heller__Panel, battery, and LOAD
heller__i guess the LOAD works so that it disconnects the load if battery is low
restorerah, right
heller__but i wonder, if no solar is available, and i use the engine to charge the battery
heller__will the charge controller enable LOAD even if its not the one charging
curlyearsI beleive the LOAD terminal is a load resistor, high power, to allow you to testy the elctrical condition of the battery under a heavy load.
synx508load only gets disconnected if the battery voltage drops to the point the battery could be damaged
sclltrare there any learning electronics sources you guys really like? like video series? trying to learn more
synx508so if you're charging it from non-solar, it should stay connected
synx508charge controllers are often programmable for different battery types, the one I used recently needed a TTL serial connection cable to set it up
restorersclltr: I've had fun over the last couple of years watching https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtM5z2gkrGRuWd0JQMx76qA and other channels like it
synx508it worked out the capacity of the battery automatically but you had to tell it whether it was a SLA or vented wet cells etc
restorerew, youtube, why use channel URLs like that when a username works just as well?
guru123I have the following Samsung Monitor: http://www.samsung.com/us/computer/monitors/LS27EMNKUY/ZA-specs which uses a 42W 14V 3A AC Adapter Charger | I have a HIPOWER A0205-325 19V (3.2A LPS) INPUT 100-240V 1.5A 47-63HZ which works with the monitor since I lost my power supply, but will 19V do damage to it or is there a voltage regulator? Sorry for the 101 question.
sclltrthanks restorer ill check those out, ive been watching afrotechmods lately
heller__synx508: so the LOAD is enabled whatever charges the battery, if just the voltage is enough on the battery?
guru123man I feel bad for the stupid question I know nothing about this topic
restorersclltr: I haven't even gotten around to many of those
restorerbigclive is just entertaining :)
synx508heller__, yes, that is usually how it works.
restorerguru123: it *probably* has an internal regulator if the monitor is working fine on 19V, the only likely damage might be overheating of the input board
restorerbut don't take my word for it
synx50819v is a fair amount more, I wouldn't do that on something that is expecting 14v
curlyearsguru123: the monitor may have an internal voltage regulator on it, but even so, running it at 5V higher than rated input is causing things to get hattor than they were designed to get, and it will most likely cause slow, long term damage, and lead to premature failure of the monitor
restorerACTION nods
guru123sounds like i should spend the $5 and get the right power supply thanks
curlyearsabsitively and posilutly, guru123
heller__synx508: this one http://www.epsolarpv.com/en/index.php/Product/pro_content/id/573/am_id/136
guru123thanks for the help :)
synx508heller__, with that one you get cool stuff, so you can use a timer to switch the load.
synx508in addition to what they call "battery over discharge protection"
curlyearsOK....one terminal goes to the Photocell array, one terminal gos to the battery, and one termail provides current for the equipment on your botad to operated, probably xprotected (fused) by the charger circuit
synx508that is a beefier version of the charge controller I used recently at Glastonbury - solar powered fans in a tent in my case, with a SLA to keep them running at night
heller__synx508: green room or something?
synx508heller__, kind of
restorerI bought a "Surprise Box" from Goldmine a while ago
restorerthe small components are still only half sorted through
restorerSO MANY SMD DIP resistor networks
sclltris that like one of those mail order loot box things
restorersclltr: http://www.goldmine-elec-products.com/prodinfo.asp?number=G2200
restoreralso http://www.goldmine-elec-products.com/prodinfo.asp?number=G9321
sclltrwow that seems like a lot of components
restorerbasically scoops out of their 50-gallon drums of unsorted surplus components
sclltrim gonna buy one
restorerI did score a nice 8x10(?) LED dot matrix and a sealed DC-DC converter
restorerlots of mylar caps, random diodes, tiny switches, etc.
screwsss_can i electrocute a cat
bart416screwsss_, physically yes, but it is most likely illegal.
restorerthey have a decent sale going on now too
bart416Bah, they don't ship to Belgium :|
blightrestorer, bart416: lol why would you get such a box?
restorerblight: I like sorting things :)
bart416blight, I like random goodies :)
bart416Gives me nice ideas sometimes.
restorerI used to do it with big lots of Magic cards too
blighti see, you guys must have quite some spare time then :-p
restoreralright, what strange keywords should I be using to find "zip wire" on ali?
JPTzip tie?
sclltrtechnically most of my time is spare time, but i just fill it with stuff so it seems like im busy
sclltrbut i dont really have to be doing any of it
bart416restorer, zip line?
restorerno, 2-conductor wire, separable by pulling apart at the ends
bart416lol that's not zip wire
bart416Just look for flat cable
restorerthat's the keyword that gets me listing on eBay :P
bart416Or audio cable
bart416speaker cable might also work
Sculptorwho knows what are PP-R pipes
darsieCan a smartphone take damage from vacuum (to evaporate water)? Like the lidquid in the LCD boiling away? Or electrolytics (if there are any)? Battery won't get evacuated.
bart416How deep vacuum are we talking?
darsieAspirator. 10 torr.
restorerphones in high-altitude balloons tend to freeze and stop working, but are at least recoverable when they land
abcabcpolypropylene reticulated?
darsieI'd rather warm it a little.
bart416restorer, wouldn't that be the battery's thermal cut out?
bart416But yeah, I'd imagine the battery wouldn't like it.
restorerbart416: probably, or the battery just freezing up
darsieI'm not evacuating the battery.
restorerI don't know how well-sealed those packages are
bart416But yeah, many displays are made using vacuum lamination processes, so those should be able to survive it.
darsieI'll try it.
bart416And oled displays should be able to handle it as well I'd imagine.
darsiebe back before applying the vacuum. Must make a chamber first ...
darsieplease tag me if you have important info.
restorerI don't really know what the difference between consumer-grade and spaceworthy components is, other than temperature range
abcabctesting and qa
darsierestorer: testing, so you know how much radiatio they can take.
restorerI can't think of anything solid-state in a newer-model phone that would problematically outgas or break in a vacuum
darsiethere's a video of the eevblog on it.
restorerdarsie: good point
restorerapparently there's at least one company to dry your water-filled phone with a vaccuum...
bart416The failures you see from radiation are usually quite interesting
bart416But if you really want to know what they test them on, both ESA and NASA have a lot of documentation available to the public.
bart416So you mean my child slavery program is illegal?
zigggggyACTION follows bongofury into the jungle
abcabcbangs and g's!
abcabcwhy does nasa even answer such trolls?
bart416The politicians gave htem a huge administrative department with nothing to do but such things?
bongofuryits possible they were inundated with Trump people after the trolling
bongofurymaybe we should perpetuate this
bongofuryit could lead to a bunch of lone gunmen going to NASA to free the kids
bart416Why would you want that?
bongofuryproblem solves itself.
Sculptorcan someone explain this pcb layout
g0zhey sculptor
g0zthat looks like a water irrigation system not a pcb to me
g0zprobably some kind of interconnect/adaptor board or something doesn't make sense without context
cheapieLooks like some kind of plumbing thing, judging by the water heater in the top right...
Sculptorg0z, yes, sanitary water system
piglitanyone here ever build there own spectrum analyser ?
zigggggyACTION hugs piglit
piglithey zigggggy !!!
zigggggyhi pig!!!!
piglitI wish i had a spectrum analyzer
zigggggyyou can just take the FFT
tawri wish i was taller
tawri wish i was a baller
blightpiglit: you can buy mixers, filters, and a vco to make a "cheapo" spectrum analyzer, or try to find some old one and repair it
restorerI wonder if "CHANZON LED Store" is counterfeit, compared to "CHANZON Official Store"
JPTStamping "Official" onto a name sure makes it the official thing, right? :D
restorerthey seem to sell exclusive sets of LEDs
JPTBoth of them or just the "official" one?
restorer"Official" sells 3mm, 5mm, small SMD, etc.; "LED" sells 1-100W modules
restorerACTION shrugs
Hoolootwomaybe different divisions of the same company or something?
Hoolootwoor it's possible that they're using the same name for some other reason or somethign
restorerjust slightly annoying they can't go together in the same order, since I just want one 10W orange phosphor module from the latter
restorerand hundreds of smaller LEDs
ShadowJKIs chanzon perhaps a town name
restorereither way, I just made a big AliExpress purchase
Dago^there is a chanzon it is and a chanzon it is not
restorerin a month or two I should have enough components to actually make some things
restorer(kidding: I'll have way too much on my hands then - I just need a couple protoboards and switches right now for some things I have in mind)
darsieOk, I'm ready to vacuum dry the smart phone. Any new ideas why that might harm it?
darsieACTION evacuates the phone ...
blightmicrophone could explode
blightdepending on what you mean with "vacuum"
jonascjAnyone familiar with the ESP32 dev boards? I'm looking for a solution to monitor a flashing LED in my electricity meter to log consumption, preferably via network. ESP32 seems to fit the bill with its wifi capabilities and GPIO pins and ADC which could be used to sample a photodiode...
jonascjDoes this sound like a sane path to take?
p0g0_the esp8266 is cheaper and might do well.
blightif you stick the photodiode directly onto the LED and shield it from surrounding lights a simple schmitt trigger or some other kind of debouncing will give you a ttl signal if thats what you want
blightno adc needed i guess
p0g0_darsie: how hard and fast a vacuum?
blight10^-18 bar
Sculptorjonascj, what's the target application of power metering
Sculptorjonascj, also, singlethree phase and your location
jonascjSculptor: personal interest in my household power consumption, having just installed an heatpump to heat water and house.
bongofuryand you're interested in how much power a blinking LED indicator uses?
p0g0_the LED signals rate of usage
jonascjSculptor: three phase, Europe, the power meter (which is what I'm billed by) says: "LED: 1000 imp/kWh", so I think 1 blink is 1Wh consumed.
p0g0_counting it tells you usage on some scale
Sculptorjonascj, you can get a single phase meter with digital output 1000/2000 impulses per kwh for 20eur
bongofurywhoa, your power meter doesn't actually show usage?
jonascjI'm not sure I'm allowed to hook that into my mains supply.
Sculptorifyour heatpump is using single phase you can dedicate it for it
bongofurythat's fucking criminal!
jonascjbongofury: sure it does, in whole kWh, but who wants to read that manually every day when you could spend time on such a little photodiode project?
p0g0_bongofury: even if it does, is there a digital readout for an MCU?
SculptorI'm not sure I'm allowed to hook that into my mains supply.
Sculptorcan you hook up a hair dryer
jonascjSome of these meters have an IR output as well communicating consumption in some protocol, but thats just as much work
p0g0_Here, one can only connect on the house side of the meter base.
Sculptorthey are called control power meter
Sculptoractually energy meters
bongofuryp0g0_ re digital readout... probably just get an ammeter
jonascjyes, kWh is a unit of energy, not power
restorerwell, it's *technically* power if you're checking kWh/day or /week or whatever ;P
p0g0_some meters also have a wifi like thing, at a lower band (at least here in the US), or they do an ethernet over powerline thing.
Sculptorjonascj, is your heat pump single phase
bongofuryethernet over powerline? wow
p0g0_^ I'd just hook up a dedicated meter
p0g0_bongofury: not too much wow to it, it is a slow tech in most places. Has distance and noise issues too.
Sculptorjonascj, https://www.banggood.com/DDS238-1-230V-Rail-Type-Electronic-Type-Mini-Electricity-Meter-LCD-Display-p-1050470.html
Sculptorjonascj, these are rather good. i had one opened. can send you a pic or two
Sculptori have
jonascjp0g0_: I've always wondered how my electriciy company do remote reads of the meters (which they do in Denmark). I was thinking this ethernet over AC-wiring, like you can also purchase for your home. It sounds a bit weird, but I suppose it can work.
jonascjSculptor: does htat have any digital out for easy logging? A meter like that sits in front of the heat pupmp to measure the energy usage of that alone, but it just has a blinking led (1000 imp/kWh).
p0g0_jonascj: it is actually an old tech, you can read up on it. It was once a notion for last mile internet, but basically wouldn't serve much data.
Sculptorit has 1000/2000imp/kwh output
jonascjoutput as blinking led?
Sculptoroptocoupler collector output
Sculptorhere's one pic https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5GLa4CNz_U_V05OOE9vVWxZSWM/view?usp=sharing
jonascjokay, basically it still boils down to mount some small board in front of it with an optocoupler or just an diode for couting blinks. A pin with ttl out would be nice. Regardless I'm using th meters already in place (one detailing total consompition, one detailing the heap pump alone).
Sculptorit uses ADE7755
jonascjDo you use it for something internal in your electricity installation? Surly you can't open the one you are billed by?
Sculptori got this meter to open it and play around with it
Sculptori will got 3 more, slightly better ones
Sculptorand i will log power usage per phase
Sculptorin my flat
Sculptoryou should look into newer models - they have all the EU certs
Sculptorjonascj, well, i'm working on energy efficiency
Sculptorin that pic, U2 is the o/c
jonascjA photodiode mounted directly on the LED (and shielded from the surroundings) is exactly what I'll do. A schmitt trigger might do nicely with that setup, good suggestion.
jonascjSculptor: Its a good thing to keep energy consumption at a reasonable level. In Denmark the goal is 1000kWh/year/person for households with more than 1 person.
jonascjA recommended goal by our energy ministry
jonascjnot counting heating by electricity (like a heat pump)
Sculptorjonascj, here's the OEM's webpage http://www.ineprometering.com/smart/single-phase
Sculptormany companies rebrand their products and release as their own
Sculptorsome of those have IR comm channel, as you said
Hoolootwothat is a ridiculous set of units right there
Hoolootwoyeah, would be much simplified if it were just in terms of watts/person
p0g0_expressed as your weight in coal...
p0g0_try to keep it under 20 tonnes per year...
Sculptorjonascj, we have 2 electric power prices. night kwh is 4 times cheaper than day kwh
jonascjHoolootwo: will that be somethin glike 1000kWh/(365*24h)=115W
Hoolootwothat looks right
jonascjSculptor: we have similar schemes, depending on which company you choose to sell you electricity. Some even have a zero cost at night scheme.
Hoolootwoand also a very small amount of electricity, wow
Sculptorrunning appliances that can accumulate energy, like electric water heaters, during night, is a good practice
Sculptoreven if you spend more kwh
bongofuryp0g0_ what is it, like DC offset?
p0g0_bongofury: what is what like?
bongofuryi was picturing ethernet over mains from the utility
bongofuryand how that would function
bongofuryi see now that isn't what you meant
p0g0_bongofury: no, that was what I meant, and it has been implemented in some places. It never took off well, xDSL and the like were faster.
ShadowJK100W is like ... TV standby, laptop and phone charger, wifi and modem?
bongofuryhow is that done?
ShadowJKand you've exceeded
bongofuryHow do you convert power INTO signal, and make it bi-directional???
bongofuryI can only imagine XMIT
bongofuryand that, with a DC offset
jonascjShadowJK: my dell 24" monitors use 25W when in use, so I'm consuming 50W on those alone right now
bongofuryand a real slow clock
ShadowJKYou impress a signal onto mains line
p0g0_bongofury: you can read about it, iirc, it is a bit like DSL, a higher frequency signal muxed onto the mains.
bongofurydoesn't that cause phase cancellations?
bongofuryok ill read
Drakonitewhat's a good general purpose op-amp? The kind to have in a parts bin for when you are playing with something and say "gee, this circuit could use an op-amp!"
darsiep0g0_: 10 torr, aspirator vacuum. Vapor pressure of water at 10 C.
darsieBuilds up over a few min.
jonascjAnyone worked with the esp32? Just wanted to hear a quick: "yeah, stay the hell away, its a nightmare to program on linux" or similar (hopefully opposite)
Loshkijonascj: I would be shocked if #esp8266 weren't all over the esp32
darsie10 tor is 1333 Pa.
jonascjLoshki: right, thanks
Smidge204Drakonite: Looking in my own bin I see a bunch of LM358
Hoolootwothat sounds like the thing I've used, I don't remember the exact number and I'm not near my parts bin
Hoolootwoit's definitely an LM3xx
Smidge204And a few MC3403m one of which I have as part fo a sine wave generator I built
DrakoniteI've certainly seen LM358 around
Smidge204I got these many years ago when I bought a bag of random ICs
darsieThe vacuum phone drying setup: http://www.bksys.at/bernhard/temp/IMG_0318.JPG
Smidge204vacuum... phone drying?
HoolootwoI would think that if you put a wet phone in a bell jar and suck all the air out, the water boils
Hoolootwois that what that's for?
Smidge204The proper way to fix a phone that's been water damaged is to put it in a bag with some rice.
Smidge204The rice attracts asians who fix the phone for you
Smidge204It's like the tooth fairy, but much more racist.
darsieHoolootwo: yes
Hoolootwowhat kind of vacuum is that? it looks like it's driven by a faucet or something?
darsie10 torr, 1333 Pa
SpeedEvilAspirator air pumps do not have vacuum suitable for vacuum drying, for obvious reasons.
restorerheh, and I just watched a video on a Venturi-based atomizer, too
SpeedEvilPlace in an oven at 60C, dissasembled as much as you can for a couple days
darsieSpeedEvil: But the water in the LCD is already gone.
darsieIt is in a pot with warm water.
Hoolootwoit could certainly accelerate the drying process
darsieI sholud have put in some silica gel.
SpeedEvilAir is fine.
SpeedEvilAnd probably better than silica gel.
SpeedEvilElevated temperature and some air exchange is the key
bart416I'm contemplating blowing up cheap China multimeters just for fun.
JPTWill probing the mains be enough to blow them up?
Hoolootwoprobaly only in the wrong mode
bart416I was thinking of discharging my coilgun driver through them, lol
restorerhow much energy, bart416?
JPTIf you want to do this for science anyways, please start by measuring the mains the right way. If they blow up right then, more people should know about it.
bart416restorer, about 1 kJ theoretically
bart416It's fairly high voltage xD
bart416I used 10000 uF 100V caps
restoreraww, by "fairly high voltage" I was assuming 400+ ;)
restorermy last iteration (long ago) was 340V
gurkiif its not arcing ure not doing hv right
bart416Compared to what most people do on the internet this is high, lol
restorer3000 uF, IIRC
bart416gurki, lol I was mostly motivated by cost reasons
restorerone big capacitor
bart416restorer, ah I built my driver in such a way that it can switch individual caps to different coils.
restorerstill under 200J in that setup
restorerI did have a nice array of 2000uF 400V caps
gurkibart416: im kinda trolling i just found out that i have no idea how esd protection works and its rather frustrating to read up on it ^^
restorerbart416: yeah, I never got around to that
restorerbart416: just one big pulse through a sturdy SCR and one coil :)
bart416Mine keeps blowing up IGBTs :(
restorerif I decide to build another, it'll be an induction type, I think
darsieThe LCD shows some interference patters (like oil on water) under vacuum which disappear when exposed to abient pressure. Maybe I should have repressurised it slowly.
bart416darsie, keep in mind if you use a vacuum pump things will bend if they have some pressure differential in them somewhere
bart416actually I got a fun idea
gurkimake tubes explode?
bart416You know how all those DT-830 multimeters say 10A for 10 sec max
bart416I think it might be time to test that rating, lol
p0g0_darsie: you want to change pressure fairly slowly, but as others have said, hi temp and wind with low RH will safely dry that phone.
bart416convection oven drying is pretty much the standard method for drying things in industry.
bart416You only use vacuum ovens if you got metal layers that are at serious risk of oxidation within a few hours.
bart416And even then nitrogen atmosphere is often a better choice.
N0ZYCvacuum ovens suck
N0ZYCsorry it had to be said
bart416jaggz, they do :P
jaggzdo they cause damage?
bart416They suck so much they suck all the air out.
N0ZYCACTION gets the ClueBat
jaggzhow is that bad?
jaggzif repressurized slowly too
bart416ACTION facedesks
jaggzis that, "vacuum ovens suck [for drying electronics]"
jaggzI need nutrition I think.. :) a bit slow. afk.
bart416Most electronics don't give a f* about operating in vacuum ;)
N0ZYCACTION patpats jaggz "it's okay we still love ya"
bart416I've been sticking circuits in a vacuum press for the past years. And that's at 200C or more oven.
ozzzysome electrolytic caps don't like vacuums
Smidge204I'd say "most"
bart416Smidge204, actually a fair bit didn't seem to mind :)
bart416Though it were SMD ones
Smidge204How hard a vacuum?
Smidge204"mkvmerge" -o "E:\\Anime\\_Outgoing\\Gabriel DropOut (3.77)\\Output\\Gabriel DropOut - 01.mkv" "--language" "3:eng" "--default-track" "3:yes" "--forced-track" "3:no" "-s" "3" "--track-tags" "1,2,3" "--attachments" "1" "-D" "-A" "--no-global-tags" "--no-chapters" "E:\\Anime\\_Outgoing\\Gabriel DropOut (3.77)\\Gabriel DropOut - 01.mkv" "--forced-track" "1:no" "-a" "1" "-D" "-S" "-T" "--no-global-tags" "--no-chapters" "E:\\A
N0ZYCsealed cans yeah
bart416sensor only goes down to 2 mbar.
sclltrizzat rite Smidge204
N0ZYCwell smidge that is very interesting
Smidge204Clipboard vomit :D
bart416But given the vacuum pump, sub 0.5 mbar seems realistic.
bongofurylet him fap to cartoons, its ok
N0ZYClooks like someone's remastering some Anime
N0ZYCthe HARD way
spludargh. Have a few rolls of specific value SMD caps, and then some smaller count variety packs (like 25 each of 52 values).
Smidge204Not very hard at all :p
sclltrUpon passing a school in heaven, graduating angels are sent down to Earth, where they must learn about humans and guide them towards the correct path in order to become true angels. However, Gabriel White Tenma, the top angel in her class, becomes addicted to video games upon arriving on Earth and turns into a complete slob as a result. The story follows Gabriel, along with other angels and demons who have descended to
sclltrEarth, as they attend high school.
N0ZYCthose are cheap nuff on ebay, good way to make sure you have what you need since they're so cheap
spludGo to root around for some 472's, locate the strip, and find that the cello on the one face isn't there - there's no caps in the strip.
N0ZYCso I suppose it will end up that every student in the school is a demon/angel
Smidge204sclltr: Oh yeah, it's pretty shit. Still, there's particular jobs to be done
p0g0_ACTION suggests Twain's "Letters From the Earth"
darsieThe phone boots, but the touchscreen doesn't feel.
Smidge204Just out of curiosity, did you remove the battery before putting it in a vacuum?
wizardyesterdayeomfpe 4
darsieI disconnected cause the aspirator leaked and sent a jet of water across the room, flooded a leather couch with a mains distributor, tripping the fault switch.
darsieSmidge204: yes.
darsieDidn't want to boil the organic electrolytes/solvents.
bart416Could have unseated the connector as well
Hoolootwoyeah, hard to say what the problem is then
bart416Could be anything from some water still stuck inside to ITO/PEDOT layer cracking
Viper-7well that was altogether much more complex than it needed to be
Viper-7esp8266 + 18650 to db9 rs232
Viper-7tp4056+dw01 for the battery, boost module to source 5.2V for a MAX232, buck module to drop 5.2V down to 3.3V for the esp8266, MAX232 with its 8 caps, ESP-01, and a DB9 port
Viper-7err, 5 caps :P
Viper-7and i bet when its done the esp-01 will still want better decoupling
Viper-7i didnt expect RS232 to WiFi bridge would take like 6 square inches of board space
Mikeeeat that space you could just run a full processor
Viper-7well most of it is to handle the 'proper' serial IO, at like +/- 9V
Viper-7it'd be tighter if i was actually spinning a pcb, but this is just lego'ing module together
Viper-7china needs to make a widget with lithium battery charging + load switching + battery protection + 5V boost + 3V3 reg heh
bart416On a real board you could use a capacitive charge pump that you can fit in a few square mm for that job :)
Viper-7well the max232 is basically just that
Viper-7a charge pump doubler and charge pump inverter
Viper-7but it specs a min vin of 4.5V
bart416Yeah, but in its defence it was made when many chips still ran of 10V rails :p
Viper-7from my 4.2V max battery, so i have to boost for that, and the esp wants <= 3.7V, so i have to buck or linreg for that
Viper-7the max vin being 5.5V on the max232 was kinda rude
Viper-7before i saw that i was all ready to go with 2x lithium cells
Jan-hihi all :)
intranicka wild Jan- has appeared!
corecodeJan-: u y no sleep
Jan-just got home.
Viper-7ACTION uses caffeinate
Jan-there should be something like a Quad Damage in Quake, only for caffiene
corecodethat would be terrible
corecodeand then you pass out in a coma
Viper-7i used to put 2x double shot short blacks in a mug every morning at work
Viper-7<3 expresso machine
Jan-I had an espresso machine
Jan-but only for making coffee milkshakes.
Jan-and it broke :/
corecodewith vanilla ice cream?
sandeepkrim trying to use code generated by STM32 cube.When ever i compile the code with GCC (version 7) it gets compiled but the microcontroller does not work.
sandeepkrbut if i download the copiled code from ST's compiled code it works.
sandeepkrany insight into what might be the problem in case of GCC?
corecodelinker script
sandeepkrcorecode, please describe a bit more
corecodeif you don't use the right linker script, your vector table and flash location will be wrong
sandeepkrcorecode, the code gets flashed.The code is generated by STM32cubemx.
sandeepkrcorecode,but the peripherial(usb in this case) does not work accordingly.
Shawn|i7-720QMis there an older datasheet for this chip? SP34063A
Shawn|i7-720QMall I can find is a datasheet from 2014 by EXAR
Viper-7clone / variant of the MC34063A ?
Bird|otherboxyeah, likely a MC34063A clone
Bird|otherboxExar acquired Sipex a while back