flybackgiving up
bobo1on1how ironic
bobo1on1what do you mean by main power input
Quatermassflyback: are you asking what your own main power input is?
Quatermassweirdo :P
flybackACTION hits Quatermass with his brusistus
flybackah better
flybackfucking sucks
flybacklike having a water ballon for an elbow
kmciahi ZeroWalker
ZeroWalkerhi hi:)
kmciawhat's new?
pfred1kmcia not a thing really
pfred1well I got a new pip today
flybackbursitis sucks canadian dick
pfred1but that's not much, now is it
pfred1apparently the pip this distro ships with sucks cocks in hell
flybackI have to decide in the next day to either get put out or just ride thru 21 shots in mthe mouth
flybackto get all my top teeeth removed
pfred1get knocked out
ZeroWalkertrying to get my stm32 working via flashing a bootloader by serial from an orange pi;p
flybackI am leaning more toward being awak now after reading horror stories of being being awake but unable move but feeling it
flybackalso I feel pain in my sleep
flybackand I thrash around
pfred1when they knock you out you're out
flybackim not so sure :/
bobo1on1maybe you can get a test run
pfred1hell I don't even remember walking away
flybackI woke up during my colon scope
flybackfrom the pain
pfred1I came to two hours later and miles away
flybackthat's what she said
pfred1although it did hurt like a son of a bitch later
pfred1but they gave me a whole bottle of demerols
flybackyeah I am going to be heavy on viccdin a few days
pfred1which I washed down with some whiskeu
flyback7 teeth yanked
pfred1I had all my siwdom teeth done
pfred1wisdom even
pfred1one was impacted but I said pull them all
pfred1I only wanted to go through it once
pfred1the worst pain I ever felt was a strangulated hernia I had
pfred1man that hurt
pfred1I was literally on my hands and knees crawling around
ThePendulumanyone using SDuino with the Arduino IDE?
ThePendulumI'm getting an error fork/exec /home/niels/.arduino15/packages/sduino/tools/STM8Tools/2017.10.21/wrapper/ no such file or directory, while that file exists and has read and execute permissions for everyone
pfred1cannot access /home/pfred1/Build/kicad/kicad-4.0.5/build/release/kicad/_eeschema.kiface: No such file or directory
pfred1there's a lot of that going around lately
ThePendulumgot that one figured out, apparently it's using dash rather than bash which I didn't have installed
ThePendulumon to the next fork/exec {}/bin/avr-objcopy: no such file or directory, lol
pfred1some wanker trying to be different, huh>'
ThePendulumit's such a fantastically useless error too, I opened up and noticed #!/bin/dash
ThePendulumthought it was a typo at first
pfred1nope dash is some queerbait's idea of a shell
bobo1on1should always be #!/bin/sh
bobo1on1although #!/bin/bash should also always work on desktop systems
kmcia/bin/sh is dash on debian
ThePendulumI have no idea what {runtime/tools.avr-gcc.path} is supposed to be
kmciaon some other systems it's a symlink to bash (which starts up in sh-compatible mode because of argv[0])
bobo1on1if your script has bash-isms, it should be #!/bin/bash
pfred1kmcia that's why I'm switching to Gentoo
pfred1Debian is for the birds anymore
bobo1on1hm I like debian
pfred1I used to
bobo1on1I think debian achieved what ubuntu set out to do
pfred1piss all their old users off?
bobo1on1install it, and everything works
redrabbityep debian is the best
bobo1on1that was not the case 10 years ago
tawrThePendulum: uhm
tawr-rwxr-xr-x@ 1 tawrbo staff 885048 Dec 5 2016 avr-objcopy
tawri don't understand how you don't understand
tawrwhere are ANY of your avr toolchain binaries?
tawryou are supposed to EDIT that line in the file to match YOUR directory
kmciawhat kind of RF connector is this
kmciathis is on a LTE to WiFi brick
flybackI guess I should get knocked out so I hope I die during
tawrneeds more mailing addresses kmcia
tawrkmcia: it SHOULD be sma or rpsma but it doesn't look like it. type in the name of your device and add "replacement antenna" to the search
kmcianah it's not SMA for sure
kmciathis is tiny
kmciasee usb micro port for reference
ThePendulumtawr: ah I see, my bad, I didn't really think I would've had to do that
tawrcan't be ufl either. can you give the name of your device?
ThePendulumnor does it seem like that after some googling actually
tawrThePendulum: edit the line or export the PATH to point at your avr binaries
kmciait's a netgear device i got from AT&T
ThePendulumtawr: yeah I've been trying to find where they are at all
ThePendulumbut it seems to be a known issue with the IDE as well
kmciaa few years ago
tawrfor osx it's: /Applications/
tawrkmcia: i meant it's model #
kmciaI think it's the "AT&T Unite Express for GoPhone"
tawrit will say it on the sticker
kmciatawr: I know, I am looking
kmciawhat sticker?
Shawn|i7-720QMI'm not finding any step up voltage converter IC's on any of these laptop motherboards :(
tawri dunno, on the bottom probably
tawrShawn|i7-720QM: why do you think there's a stepup? they usually step down.
flybackanyone rememeber any mining machinery that looked like bowling pins
ThePendulumtawr: not entirely sure if it's trying to find it within Arduino itself or within the plugin directory
Shawn|i7-720QMI need a step up tawr
tawrShawn|i7-720QM: then you won't find one there
Shawn|i7-720QMwhere would I find one??
tawrThePendulum: well what is IT?
tawri meant the specific thing you are trying to do, ThePendulum
ThePendulumI'm trying to compile a simple blink sketch for an STM8 with sduino and the arduino IDE
Shawn|i7-720QMtawr, what electronic devices might have step up ic's?
kmcialooks like it's a Netgear 779S
tawrThePendulum: the stock IDE should know where it is.
tawrShawn|i7-720QM: not many, they're expensive and require a lot of components. it's usually done the other way
tawrsince having a wall plug the difference between having it output 12v over 5v is only a few cents
kmciaI guess it's "FME"?
Shawn|i7-720QMwell, I'm looking for a solution to step up 3.7V to 6V
ThePendulumtawr: reinstalling it from scratch now, as the suggestion is here and there
ozzzyShawn|i7-720QM, there are lots of boost converters on ebay
tawreither buy a board that does it
kmciahm or not
Shawn|i7-720QMozzzy, I already know that, but I dont have time for ebay right now..
tawror buy the components
Shawn|i7-720QMI have components
tawrShawn|i7-720QM: go to pololu
ozzzywell... you could build one
tawrthey have them for 5 bucks or something
Shawn|i7-720QMtawr, what is pololu?
tawrit's somthing you type into google
kmciaoh this is a pigtail with FME on the OTHER end
ThePendulumguess that didn't work then, lol
kmciawait i'm so confused
Shawn|i7-720QMtawr, theres a lot of those somethings on google
tawrThePendulum: something has to be messing up. put the whole log on pastebin
DrakoniteShawn|i7-720QM, why 6V? Not 5V?
tawrShawn|i7-720QM: if you typed it in, you would have figured it out
Shawn|i7-720QMbecause the kameleon remote I have dims at 5v, but not 6v
LuminaxWkback.... *phew*
Shawn|i7-720QMtawr, I'm nowhere near las vegas
LuminaxWknever listen to instruction and then complain why the fucking thing doesn't work
Shawn|i7-720QMozzzy, I was originally thinking about buildin one
ThePendulumnot sure there's more relevant info in there
LuminaxWkit's the WRONG JIG goddamnit ><
ozzzystill have to buy all the components
DrakoniteShawn|i7-720QM, polulu is a company. one of the popular things they sell is small regulators, both step down and step up
Shawn|i7-720QMozzzy, as I said, I have a lot of components
LuminaxWkand stepper driver ?
Shawn|i7-720QMDrakonite, yes I know, I looked it up
Drakonitesearchs can get a little goofy as the RC crowd likes to call 5v step-down boards as "polulu's"
LuminaxWkpololu? polulu ?
DrakoniteLuminaxWk, hm. however it's spelled. pololu apparently.
spludkewl, I just located my old voice synth IC.
spludI encountered the docs for it, but not the IC,
LuminaxWksplud: Yamaha ?
spludGeneral Instrument
tawrThePendulum: it tells you everything you need to know there
Shawn|i7-720QMshould I try building one with a 555 timer?
spludLets' say I've had it for a _while_ <g>
LuminaxWka while, indeed
pfred1 have SPO256 ICs
pfred1they're bad ass
spludWas in an anti-stat tray with an 8042 and 8088.
pfred1ever make it do the crown thing on an oscilliscope?
LuminaxWkoh.... mine's XG... not exactly a voice synth
LuminaxWkmore like a synth...
ThePendulumtawr: I have no idea what it expects {} to be, nor where avr-objcopy actually is
Shawn|i7-720QMmy kameleon remote consumes up to 12mA of current at 6V
tawrThePendulum: i showed you previously
pfred1there's one mode the chip goes into and when yo uscope it it makes this spinning pattern that looks liek a crown
LuminaxWkpfred1: debugmode ?
pfred1just one of the presets
ThePendulumactually there's /usr/bin/avr-objcopy now
ThePendulumthat's a start
pfred1its this funny chime
kmciaso I guess I need one of these whatever-bullshit to FMA cables, and FMA-to-SMA adapters, but those come w/ the cable
ThePendulum/usr/bin is in my PATH though
pfred1I got a data sheet for those chips around someplace
pfred1like on paper
tawryou didn't follow directions:
ThePendulumtawr: probably because I did install it through the Arduino IDE..
tawrgo google "sdruino compiling path" or "sduino avr-objcopy"
pfred1I think my batting average for installations is falling below 500 lately
ThePendulumtawr: seems like 'works'
pfred1the python and wxwidgets are so hosed on this system right now
ThePendulumbut I don't feel like I'm supposed to be editing that, let alone when installing through the IDE
tawrThePendulum: no
tawrit is not going to /usr/bin
tawrthat is NOT what it's pointing at.
tawrarduino tools are self-contained in the arduino directory.
pfred1tawr why *NOT*!
DoYouKnowI just bought 10 varactor diodes for gravitational wave experiments
tawrthat does not mean /bin/avr-objcopy, ThePendulum. that means RUNTIME TOOLS AVR GCC PATH/bin/
pfred1I just bought 10 hits of acid off Wavy gravy
DoYouKnowlol, pfred1
ThePendulumtawr: which is absolutely meaningless to me :/
spludCurious - went looking for the docs, and I found another IC - this one a Voice record/playback IC.
splud"Record and playback your own voice!"
splud20 second capacity.
pfred1that was amazing in the 80s
tawrThePendulum: dude
spludindeed. The copyright on the speech synth IC is 1981.
tawrdo you understand folders?
ThePendulumtawr: I only know of ~/.arduino15 and it's not in there, I have no idea where to look for it, the only place on my entire PC that has that binary by the looks of it is /usr/bin
magic_ninjaHey, residential single phase power feeders. L1 and L2 180 degrees out of phase, meaning they are in phase but inverted?
pfred1tawr do you understand directories?
splud"The SP0256 (Speech Processor) is a single chip N-channel MOS LSI device that is able, using its stored program, to synthesize speech or complex sounds."
DoYouKnowlol, now I need to figure out how to make the sound card waveform output offset
spludmagic_ninja, residential WHERE IN THE WORLD?
DoYouKnowby a DC offset of like 1-2 V
tawrThePendulum: it is in the log file. omg. i'm not on linux right now to show you. just find the damn file it's looking for and edit the file. did you install the arduino lib as a user? in which case it's in ~/arduino or ~/.arduino in many subfolders.
ThePendulumwhich it's not, at least not that I can find
tawrthen you would go
pfred1magic_ninja L1 and L2 are the two hots of a center tapped transformer with the center tap being neutral
ThePendulumthe sduino plugin is there, yeah
tawrwhich is where avrobjcopy resides, along with every other avr binary
tawrif memory serves on how linux folders are which are almost identical to osx AND windows
pfred1magic_ninja so between L1 and L2 you have 240VAC and between either leg and neutral you have 120VAC
magic_ninjapfred1, got ya, the center tap is the reference.
ThePendulumso I first need to install an avr plugin into the IDE then? there's only esp8266 and sduino in packages/
kmciaarduino IDE is shit
ThePendulumand no result from find
magic_ninjaMy EE professor called it "Two-phase" today and I laughed because I know it is wrong but I couldn't remember what kept them in phase hehe
magic_ninjaThePendulum, avrdude and use whatever you want to program.
tawrthat is your issue, ThePendulum
magic_ninjaAtmega microcontroller?
kmciathat split phase thing is the standard in the USA
pfred1it is single phase
magic_ninjakmcia, yea, it is really common. We do like 800A single phase services.
tawrmagic_ninja: dont jump in unless you read the last 30 minutes
tawrthis is the stm32 arduino wrapper that lets you upload arduino code to stm32 mcu's. not avr chips, stm32's. stm32duino aka sduino
magic_ninjatawr, If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all.
ThePendulum(stm8 specifically)
pfred1there's no point to 2 phase that I know of
tawrmagic_ninja: you're new so i'll let it slide
magic_ninjatawr, op or not man, that was a rude thing to say.
magic_ninjaand thanks pfred1
kmciaany tips on positioning MIMO antennas? I know it's probably a huge topic
ThePendulumtawr: not entirely sure what the relevance of those lines two is, it seems to find sdcc fine atm
kmciabut like, if I have two dipole antennas for a receiver
LuminaxWkmagic_ninja: more often than not, jumping in into the middle of a conversation can be a disaster
kmciahow far apart should the be
kmciaand should the have the same orientation
LuminaxWktoo many cooks and all that
pfred1magic_ninja the real interesting thing is why we bond neutral to ground though
tawrshrug, im done lol
magic_ninjapfred1, I've always just figured it is to keep our reference point common throughout the distribution system.
ThePendulumtawr: thanks none the leat, appreciate it
pfred1yes but the implications of if the grid floated is fascinating
pfred1the phone company is paranoid about it too
kmciaalso, wy do some dipoles have that coil in the middle
kmciasuch as
ThePendulumguess I got to have another look at t his tomorrow
magic_ninjapfred1, well, I've never had a physics class and am just getting through calc, so I can't really understand a lot of what is happening at a lower level.
Drakonitekmcia, the coil just above the base? That is a way of making an antenna that is shorter than it would need to be if it was straight
ThePendulumfor now it works linked to the objcopy in /usr/bin *shrug*
Shawn|i7-720QMmight this work in a 3v to 6v boost converter?
magic_ninjapfred1, and imagine. Having far different potentials at different parts of the grid. That would wreak all kinds of havoc. No way to deal with noise.
kmciasometimes appliances are wired with no neutral, though
kmciabut yeah it's needed for distribution
pfred1magic_ninja it is a high potential at any point that is the worry
pfred1our power grid is as big as the sky and we know about lightning in the sky
magic_ninjakmcia, well, that is different. They often don't "need" a neutral. If there is 120V control voltage they can tap a line and use the X2 on the transformer.
pfred1if we didn't bond the grid we'd have lightning bolts coming out of sockets
magic_ninjakmcia, The path is completed between L1 and L2. With modern electronics though, they just use the neutral for electronics.
magic_ninjaThat would be terrible hehe
pfred1there's still an earth potential difference though
pfred1but it's only a few volts
magic_ninjapfred1, you EE or electrician?
pfred1nope just a collector of trivia
pfred1well I've done electrical work in the past
magic_ninjawell, the earth has different potentials in different areas.
kmciaI found out that cheap inverters have a neutral that's not at earth/ DC ground
kmciabecause they use 2 sine waves on L and N
kmciaer square waves
magic_ninjaThat is why we ground every so often and check the resistance from the ground bond at the first means of disconnect and the center transformer tap
magic_ninjakmcia, that is a derived system. It is different because it is taking a DC signal and approximating a sin wave
kmciaapproximating poorly...
pfred1they said AC not sine AC
magic_ninjaThey don't necessarily have to be earth grounded to work, but often with AC systems they reference the 0VDC to earth ground and to chasis and such so that the metal frames become a part of the GEC system of the building.
LuminaxWkmeh.... sparkies
magic_ninjaSparkie by trade, soon to be an EE
pfred1magic_ninja I had a buddy that was an electrician until it dawned on him that parts were where the money's at
spludkmcia - re arduino IDE. Use the avr-gcc toolchain.
spludI build stuff using makefiles.
pfred1get a percentage on everyone else's work
magic_ninjapfred1, well I'm not sure where I want to go. I enjoyed doing controls, telemetry, the technical stuff and troubleshooting a lot more than pure design or pure construction.
spludthe money is at what Whitefish was charging Puerto Rico for stuff.
pfred1electrical work ain't cheap
magic_ninjaThere seems to be a market for doing other people's homework to hehe.
magic_ninjaI saw that. Those rates are insane
magic_ninjaIt isn't that expensive though. I'm $70/hour for standard work and 100-125 for industrial controls type stuff.
spludooh, and there's a little container with some specfic value caps AND the 3.12MHz crystal the synth needs. Those have been sitting yet somewhere else for some time.
pfred1no one is going to hook Puerto Rico back up for free
magic_ninjaThey should be able to order parts and get themselves hooked up hehe
spludI do believe I'm going to get this synth on my winter to-do list. Should be fun just hearing what it sounds like.
spludNah, 1.1M people in US NE without power - wanna bet they'll be online a *LOT* sooner than PR?
pfred1well they're paying for it
pfred1with every bill
spludAnd no problem that PR needs to cough up for infrastructure upgrades, but this Whitefish outfit was set up to really ream 'em.
magic_ninjaoh yea, that reminds me pfred1: To backtrack a bit, single phase in distribution is also often called "split phase"
spludUS resi is split phase. I recall asking you WHERE YOU WERE.
pfred1magic_ninja same thing it is still single phase though
magic_ninjaThey are interchangeable terms.
spludL to L is single phase, but the 120V business with a neutral is the split nature.
pfred1it isn't split it is center tapped
blockyAnyone know the name of the 4-pin jack/socket/plug that those flat RGB LED strips use?
LuminaxWkMolex ?
blockyMolex is the brand, right?
blockyNot sure how to search for it on digi key
pfred1yeah but it referrs to one of their popular lines
pfred1Molex connectors are the old power connectors in PCs
blockyI bought some cheapo lights off ebay but it didn't come with any sort of driver
Drakoniteno, if it's the connectors I think you mean, it's not molex, it's a jst type.
blockyYeah pfred1 the one I'm talking about is much smaller
LuminaxWkoh it is?
pfred1sounds like a header connector then
DrakoniteJST-SM I think
blockyvery flat, like a sheet of paper
LuminaxWkit's standard 0.1" right? just with hooks and all that
pfred1flat connector
magic_ninjaSo torn...should I email my EE Professor and correct him?
pfred1magic_ninja want to pass the course?
ballmagic_ninja: Send him flowers.
LuminaxWkcorrect him
magic_ninjaI don't know how to do it nicely, but I also don't want him to go around calling it "2-Phase"
blockythese lights were so cheap, maybe i should just buy some new ones that come with a driver box lol
pfred1let it ride go along to get along
magic_ninjaAnd I don't want him teaching the other people in the class wrong.
ballCorrect him (but cite your sources ;-)
pfred1don't worry about everyone else
LuminaxWkthe worse thing that could happen is you don't correct him, and goes along, and later somewhere, where it's critical, he realizes his mistakes and 'corrects' it
pfred1if you want to worry about everyone else then go be a doctor
Drakoniteoh, flat ribbon cables? eh. There are different connectors used by different ones
LuminaxWkthus rendering your result wrong
pfred1even they don't care
magic_ninjaI'll take it hehe
blockyI'm starting to think I should just solder some wires on
magic_ninjaThat being said, he isn't arrogant int he least. He is actually quite humble, and damn sharp. He comes from the field, not just from academia.
pfred1maybe on some level he's right?
Drakoniteblocky, probably the best option. Different strips use different connectors, so it's hard to say what you'd need without seeing it. Just replacing the cable is often a good option.
magic_ninjapfred1, No, he isn't.
pfred1I never really scoped both phases and looked at them
blockymagic_ninja: I haven't been following the convo from the start but I know I've had situations before where I thought I caught a mistake from a prof or a senior engineer and when I discussed it with them it turned out I was the one mistaken
blockywhat school is this where you get to be an EE prof without knowing about phases lol
magic_ninjaHe flat out admits he isn't a power guy.
pfred1it is all semantics I mean what diffrence does it make?
magic_ninjaIt is more of a semantics thing.
magic_ninjaTechnically they are 180 degrees out of phase.
pfred1I always either deal with the two hots, or just a hot and the neutral
blockyWhat did he say and what do you think it actually is?
magic_ninjaIn the same sense that 360 degrees is equivalent to 720 degrees when utilizing the general solution to a trig function
pfred1so they could be any pahse and it wouldn't make any difference to me in use
spludHeh, one of the test modes on the speech synth IC will spew out all of the internal ROM data on a serial pin.
magic_ninjaHe was talking about residential distribution and called single phase two phase and had them like 120 degrees out of phase
magic_ninjaWhen generating 3-phase, that is the case, but not for single phase.
spludand the device supports external ROMs. It's programmed with just English allophones, but with an external ROM...
spludor more specifically, with something like an AVR and a spi flash...
spludmagic_ninja, 120 degrees out is three phase.
spludkinda by definition.
pfred1magic_ninja the older I get the more importance I place on choosing my battles
ballAh damnit. Dog wants out.
pfred1a lot of stuff ain't worth arguing
magic_ninjait wouldn't be an argument
magic_ninjaThere is actually a standard 2-Phase circuit. I'll be darned. So that is why it is pretty much wrong when you call a split phase system 2 phase.
pfred1stepper motors can be 2 phase
Bird|otherboxmagic_ninja, there are actually two types of 2 phase circuits
Bird|otherboxyou have 90deg (quadrature) two phase which is obsolete
Bird|otherboxand then what is called a "2 out of 3" circuit, where what otherwise would be a split-phase system is fed from 2 phases of a 208Y/120V three phase wye system
Bird|otherboxthe latter is common in high-rise residential buildings and the like, to this very day
pfred1here's a stepper motor running off single phase with the second phase made by capacitors
magic_ninjaBird|otherbox, yea, I worked on one the other day. Now, in that case it actually is a "two phase" system hehe. The thing is, any single phase loads you attach will have different power than they would for a standard split phase system, right?
magic_ninjaThey wanted a 240V drier receptacle installed, I suggested they go with a three-phase drier but they insisted on 240. Well, it was actually a delta-fed system though, not Wye. Watch out for that high leg hehe.
Bird|otherboxmagic_ninja, line to line loads will be running at the 3ph line to line voltage (208V in standard north american wye) vs the split phase line to line voltage (240V)
Bird|otherboxah. yeah, watch out for that wild/high/stinger/power leg!
Bird|otherboxkeep a roll of orange electrical tape handy in your back pocket when working on those systems, and keep your voltmeter at hand too
Bird|otherboxcheck everything you're hooking up a 120V thing/receptacle to to make sure that some doofus hasn't landed your run on the wild leg
magic_ninjaCaught a guy trying to hook up new plugs to the high leg about a week ago. He had been at it 23 years and wouldn't listen to me (I've been at it 4) so I had to call the boss so we didn't blow up customer equipment.
magic_ninjaAnd yea, I always check for a high leg on commercial 3 phase around here.
magic_ninjaIt is almost all wye now, but we have a few older buildings that are still on delta transformers.
Crackihigh/wild leg?
magic_ninjaCracki, sec I'll get diagrams.
Crackireading backlog
magic_ninjaWith a Wye system, you have the center tap that brings all three phases to the same potential relative to ground/neutral. With a delta system, you have a wild leg that is higher relative to ground than the rest. Phase C I believe. You can easily burn up single phase equipment.
Bird|otherboxPhase B in the panel, Phase C in metering I believe
Bird|otherboxbut yes, great way to let the smoke out of single phase equipment (not as much as you used to be able to due to universal voltage SMPSUs being a thing -- they're happy as a clam on the wild leg)
magic_ninjaJust a second. I got a codebook right here
Bird|otherbox110.15 calls out the orange marking for high legs
Bird|otherboxand 408.3(E)(1) calls out the B phase as the high leg except in some meter-mains where it's the C phase due to the way the meter has to be wired
dave0x6dhmmmm, this nrf51822 is rated for a max for 3.9V, but my 18650 battery is charged to 4V right now...
magic_ninjaBird|otherbox, in 110.15 it says that "only the high leg shall be marked." Does that mean that you do not mark the other phases?
Bird|otherboxmagic_ninja, not with the orange tape
Bird|otherboxthey're normal, so you odn't need to mark them. the high leg gets the marking ofc because it's the one you need to steer clear of
magic_ninjaOh, it is saying specifically to NOT mark any other phases orange.
dave0x6dIs 0.1V really going to blow a fuse?
magic_ninjaBut there is another section that states you identify three phase systems.
Bird|otherboxmagic_ninja, only if there are multiple voltage systems on the premises
magic_ninjaOf course, BOY for high and BRB for low
Bird|otherboxthat's just a convention :)
Bird|otherboxthat /4 stuff is handy in standard split phase too
Bird|otherbox(esp. with the new switch loop rules in)
dave0x6dshould I risk it?
Bird|otherboxdave0x6d, stick a Schottky in there if it's just for prototyping's sake
magic_ninjaOur ahj requires it
CrackiI like wye
Bird|otherboxmagic_ninja, what's interesting is that if you have a phase converter in parallel with a standard split phase feed, that actually is equivalent to a high-leg delta whenever the converter's running, with the converter-generated phase being the high leg
dave0x6dBird|otherbox: don't have one within arm's reach.
Bird|otherboxmagic_ninja, ah :)
Bird|otherboxdave0x6d, well, you could slap some other diode in there if it can run down to say 3.0V or whatnot
magic_ninjaBird|otherbox, I was looking for all this in article 450
Crackior diode in series to drop some voltage
batchtoo much G
magic_ninjaI'm taking my journeyman's this summer. I took it this summer, but I didn't have time to study. I was only two short questions short of passing, so I thought I did okay.
magic_ninjaConsidering I been using the code about 8 months at the time hehe.
restorerdave0x6d: double-check? I googled quickly and the first result says 1.8V - 3.6V
Bird|otherboxyeah, I'm not even a sparky, just most of the way to a Computer Engineering degree. snagged a PDF copy of the 2014 code when I got the chance though
Bird|otherbox(interestingly enough -- my plan B for if they try to ship all the IT jobs to India is to go off and apprentice as an electrician)
restorerdave0x6d: ah, okay, that's with a diode drop on the inputs, I see
dave0x6drestorer: yeah. So I'd be putting in 3.7V instead of 3.6V.
LuminaxWkBird|otherbox: you mean they don't already do that? :P
magic_ninjaBird|otherbox, I'm working on EE here, and I am a sparky hehe. Also, if you don't mind getting dirty and doing the hard work you can look into industrial controls. Your degree and some hands-on and mechanical ability will put you ahead of the pack.
DocScrutinizer05IT psychologist is the future. Make neuronal networks in AI forget about their nightmares. CS is so yesterday
LuminaxWkCS.... did it even 'exist' ?
magic_ninjaand honestly, as a good controls guy you can make a lot more money that most IT jobs
Bird|otherboxmagic_ninja, mechanical isn't my strongsuit, but controls can be fun I'm sure :) (actually have a small book on ladderlogic and such)
magic_ninjawell, if you consider ECE IT
Bird|otherboxalso have some knowledge of relay logic
magic_ninjayou wear many hats. Mainly you just can't be afraid to be on the production floor
Bird|otherboxI personally dunno how well I'd be at pulling wire, but the troubleshooting aspects sound like fun xD
dave0x6drestorer: i mean it's only 0.1V... right? :p
Bird|otherboxbut yeah :) I don't think I'd mind too hard being down on a factory floor
pfred1I don't like trouble
Bird|otherboxACTION has been in a working railyard before
DocScrutinizer05my saying since 1985: software engineers constantly work for obsoleting their own employment
Bird|otherbox(legit, too)
dave0x6drestorer: alright, I found a 3.3V within arm's reach.
dave0x6dugh, so much wiring now.
restorerdave0x6d: I mean, you could just discharge the battery a bit first :P
magic_ninjaanyway, I'm going to get dinner. I'm starving.
Goatmanmagic_ninja, were are you going to get dinner?
magic_ninjaThe kitchen
dave0x6drestorer: that quickly though?
dave0x6d0.1V is a lot for a battery.
restorerdave0x6d: that would be maybe a tenth of an 18650's capacity, at 1C, that'd take what, 6 minutes? assuming you have the right power resistor
kmciaif I have some coax, terminate it at 50 ohms, and read the other end as 54 ohm with my DMM
kmciathen it's probably okay right?
kmciasadly I do not have a network analyzer
tgeekykmcia: no
tgeekyyou are just reading the termination, which is probably 53 ohms
tgeekyerr wait, you mean OK as in, intact and not broken?
kmciabecause it's DC?
kmciayeah. intact and a 50 ohm impedance
tgeekyor OK as in, it's a 50 ohm cable (as opposed to 75)
kmciathat one
kmciaI should have been more specific
tgeekyyeah no, you don't know the 50/75 ohm issue, but you can conclude that it's intact
tgeekyif you have a function generator
kmciato test that I need a NA?
tgeekyyou can put ... a square wave in it, I think, and them look to see to what extent the 50 ohm termination kills the reflections
tgeekyi actually have a terminator with a variable resistor at the end, so I'll put the cable up, dial the resistence until reflections cease, then measure the termination
kmciathat's neat. I should make one of those
kmciais it just a pot soldered to an RF connector?
tgeekykmcia: yep, I just hijacked a BNC to RCA converter (soldered the pot instead of an RCA)
electrobottgeeky just linked to #37: Use a scope to measure the length and impedance of coax - YouTube
kmciawell that's a project for a lazy day
Eduard_MunteanuCouldn't find an ESR meters on Farnell. One would think these things are common..
tgeekyi love my DE 5000
tgeekykmcia: you can easily just use the terminator you already have if you have a function generator
tgeekykmcia: that video demonstrates everything about it
Eduard_Munteanutgeeky, does it measure ESR? I don't think all LCRs can do it accurately.
tgeekyEduard_Munteanu: it absolutely does
tgeekyEduard_Munteanu: down to 0.01 ohms
Eduard_MunteanuOh, that's good.
tgeekyEduard_Munteanu: the only limitation is that it can't handle caps bigger than 10000 uF
Eduard_Munteanu10 mF seems like a common upper bound for LCRs AFAICT.
Eduard_MunteanuIt's a pretty hefty value anyway.
tgeekybeing able to measure inductors is very nice too
tgeeky(that's the primary reason I got it: the $20 transistor tester can do ESR pretty well, but it's awful at inductors)
tgeekythe $20 tester is also pretty bad at low capacitor values, below ~ 30 pF
Eduard_MunteanuHm. Do inductors break often?
tgeekyno but if you are building e.g. filters, or RF circuits, you often need to know pretty precisely what the inductor value is
tgeekyand also the quality factor
kmciaespecially if you hand wind them :)
Eduard_Munteanutgeeky, do you do ham radio stuff?
tgeekyEduard_Munteanu: nope, only higher frequency stuff like ISM band
Eduard_MunteanuHm. I'd think those usually employ very small inductors traced on the board.
Eduard_MunteanuYou still need to confirm it's working, though.
tgeekysometimes, but when you need to filter the power to those circuits it works fine
kmciaEduard_Munteanu: I'm trying to get my ham license
kmciajust bought a couple books
Eduard_Munteanukmcia, hm, I wasn't aware there was a license for ham radio
kmciaEduard_Munteanu: in the USA yes
kmciait has three grades
kmciatechnician, general, extra
dave0x6drestorer: went with a cr2302 after all that.
dave0x6dugh, my phone and tablet don't seem to be working with BLE right now..
kmciaeveryone I know who makes a product based on BLE tells me that BLE on Android is a right clusterfuck
dave0x6dwell I have to install frigging xcode just to scan for BLE on macOS.
kmciafitbit app is absurdly slow at syncing to my device :/
kmciaon android
kmciait takes like 3 minutes to sync... a step count
kmciaa bit more than that, but not like MB and MB of data
SpeedEvilzIt's probably doing heartrate too and accelleration and ...
kmciabut it still adds up to what should be a fraction of a second to transfer, even over BLE
SpeedEvilIt doesn't quite track every beat, and it has a fucking annoying cloud service you can't actually get the raw data off of
kmciayeah that part is annoying
kmciaat least the new smartwatch supports 3rd party apps
kmciaI already sideloaded an app onto mine
kmciait's a Cortex-M4 with a GPU...
kmciastrange times
kmciabut as a result it gets 4 days bat life rather than 1, and this is a HUGE deal because you don't have to charge over night, which means you would lose out on sleep tracking
kmciait also charges pretty quick
dave0x6dkmcia: great, macOS isn't working either.
newcoderHi, can we replace Li-polymer battery with li-ion battery of a android-phone?
newcoderDo they have same size/
dave0x6dkmcia: my god, apple broke their own tools.
SpeedEvilnewcoder: what are you trying to do
tawrkmcia: find the antenna?
kmciaantenna on the fitbit?
kmciait does wifi, bluetooth, and NFC
newcoderSpeedEvil: Remove lithium-polymer battery from android-phone
kmciawifi and bt share an antenna
SpeedEvilnewcoder: why
tawron your lte to wifi
kmciayeah, I think I found the cables I need
kmciaordered them
newcoderSpeedEvil: I heard that Li-Ion was better than Li-polymer
SpeedEvilnewcoder: the chemistries are very similar, and the question makes little sense
SpeedEvilNeither is really 'better' - they are different.
newcoderSome said that Li-Ion lasted longer
SpeedEvilThey really don't, that's pretty much the harsh service in the phone.
SpeedEvilDo that with any lithium chemistry and it won't last very long
ZeroWalkerwell at least i got the damn stm32 to work with usb now;)
LoshkiOn the subject of cellphone batteries, is anyone else disturbed by the new trend of cellphones without replaceable batteries? Talk about "this phone is only meant to last a year".
kmciaLoshki: you can get them replaced at any phone repair shop
ZeroWalkernow i am trying to make it decode the gb lcd signal somehow, kinda hard when you don't know how fast it actually reads the input as it depends on the instructions
kmciaor do it yourself with a few tools
restorer"new trend"? you mean since the first iPhones (or iPods before that)
kmciait means you can't hot swap batteries
kmciaor take them out for paranoia reasons
kmciawell not "hot" swap just swap
restorerI burned out my first iPod by plugging it into a miswired Firewire port
ballOh here we go: the tinfoil hat memorandum.
tgeekyall those criminals going around, miswiring firewire ports
restorertgeeky: it was my fault - plugged the internal connector in one pin off :o
tgeekyrestorer: ouch!
tgeekydamn them for not using a null pin
RoChessthey do, but cheap cases would not use it
kmciaand yeah... wrist accelerometer based step tracking is never that accurat
RoChessso restorer cheapened out on case, and paid for it with an iPod
kmciaI take my step count as an arbitrary-units general measure of how active i've been
kmciaanother great thing about fitbit: every device type uses a different, incompatible charging cable
kmciainterestingly this watch measures blood O2 but doesn't display anything about it, maybe for liability reasons
tgeekythe day that we can 3d reconstruct a penis simply from the accelerometer recording of the masturbator... that'll be the future
kmciait's just used to make the other algorithms more accurate
cheatersorry typo
cheateri was cleaning my keyboard
newcoderSpeedEvil: Li-IOn battery lasts longer than Li-polymer
restorerRoChess: technically, it was a great case, but a not-so-great in-bay front port device
RoChessrestorer, ahh those, yeah it's been a while since i've seen firewire on any case, but then again it's also been a while since i've seen an iPod so i was giving you room on that :)
electrobotDoYouKnow just linked to sphere spins, but in wrong plane; around wrong axis - YouTube
DoYouKnowthat is really coil
restorerRoChess: this was 2003 - iPods still used Firewire, and my motherboard had one port in the back, and extra headers for a front port
ballI miss my iPod mini.
DoYouKnowlooks like a Rodin coil. He calls it a Vortex Coil
RoChessrestorer, i used them for external HDDs before eSATA took over, and now USB 3.x
restorerRoChess: but! Apple didn't ask too many questions about *how* it died, and I didn't offer details beyond "I plugged it in, it got really hot, and now it doesn't work"
DoYouKnowbiphasic square wave input
restorerRoChess: me too
restorerI did have to pay to send it back to them, but they sent me a new one with the same engraving
RoChessrestorer, or did they really mess with ya and used this? --
ballI have two dead Sandisk MP3 players on my desk.
RoChessrestorer, i come across the occasional case/dock that plays those mean tricks
restorerRoChess: I can't remember, but I don't think I would've connected it one-off if it meant there were two pins dangling
restorermy case did use those for the USB ports, though >:|
RoChessrestorer, true, but swapping certain pins can have same effect obviously
restorerRoChess: I do remember distinctly that the problem was it was one off
restorermaybe on the dock itself, since that was harder to see into the connect
RoChessrestorer, at least u fixed it before u plugged in new iPod ;)
RoChesscuz that would have made it a whole different story lol
restorerwell, yeah, by then I knew what the problem was :P
RoChessi do like how the MSI/Gigabyte mainboards i buy come with little adapters, so you can plug all the possible loose case/dock cables into it, and then just insert that one block into mainboard with a null pin protection in place
kmciathat's a brilliant invention
kmciaI think ASUS have it too
restorerthat must be fairly new
restorerI don't think I've seen that on any of my motherboards
RoChessrestorer, i've used them for 10+ years, but i do buy the medium+ range of boards from those manufactors but i've seen then on budget ones too now
DocScrutinizer05well, it tooj me several years (or decades) to finally notice you can unplug those cable screw clamps
DocScrutinizer05at least some of those
ballDocScrutinizer05: What cable screw clamps?
LuminaxWkeh? those green clamps ?
LuminaxWksome of them can
LuminaxWksome of them can't
ball...the terminal blocks you mean?
LuminaxWkthe one that can just turns into a sort of 'clip' terminals
LuminaxWkball: yep
Casperusually they are soldered
LuminaxWkCasper: there are some that're sort of 'two parts'
LuminaxWkwhere you can yank the top part with the screw to expose the clamp terminal
password2you mean pull out of the board?
Casperif you found one that can be removed, then it will not be reliable long term usually, but that is some experimentation equipement, so reliability isn't an issue
LuminaxWkpassword2: not everything
LuminaxWkCasper: yep
LuminaxWkthe cheap one is usually a clamp fitted to a reverse u bracket coming down on a slightly curved u bracket that clamps as the reverse u pinches the u
LuminaxWkI think I have a 3d model of that somewhere....
LuminaxWkaaaah..... that reminded me
LuminaxWkisn't there also the terminal on terminal type that you screw on your screw-on block onto ?
LuminaxWk............fuck I need lunch break >_>
DocScrutinizer05yo Dawg! heard you like screw on, so we put screw on on your screw on to screw on while you screw on screw ons
Evidlo[m]If you charge a completely dead lipo at a reasonable rate, whats the chance it will explode/ignite, realistically?
kmciaso does a sputter gun strike a plasma arc between the surface to be deposited on and the material to deposit?
kmciaand if so why doesn't this destroy the device under construction... is it because of the low pressure of Ar+ or whatever?
DocScrutinizer05Evidlo[m]: I won't give any estimation since I only have spotty evidence and any of my estimations is worth zilch to you
CasperEvidlo[m]: kinda high, the issue is not the discharge itself, but the fact that at low voltage crystal may form, which can pierce the insulation at any later time
DocScrutinizer05Evidlo[m]: I *can* tell you that the cell is basically fscked no matter how you revive it
Casperand considering how violent a lipo fire is, I wouln't take the chance
SpeedEvilThere was recent research that did microscopy on li-ion and found that dendrites don't form until you reverse charge them
SpeedEvilyou lose some in capacity
SpeedEvilNever rely on this.
DocScrutinizer05SpeedEvil: nice. have link?
kmciait's funny that we have billions of people carrying LiPo powered devices right next to their nuts
kmciaand yet they're 100x more concerned about ~radiation~
kmciafriend of mine was on an e-bike where the bats caught fire
Casperkmcia: some even said to me that they emit nuclear radiation, even when off...
Casper... some are a lost cause
kmciafortunately there is a simple measure to take in this situation: RUN
kmciaCasper: ;__;
kmciathey probably do emit tiny amounts of radiation, like EVERYTHING ELSE ON THIS PLANET
kmciadumb hippies here keep organizing against cell towers and smart meters
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer05: sorry, can't find it
DocScrutinizer05no, I heard bananas are worse ;-P
DocScrutinizer05SpeedEvil: no worries
kmciaI read about some ultra left people who voted for trump because "he'll uncover the truth about chemtrails"
SpeedEvilIt was a small study, just one battery type
jlfkmcia: it sounds like you think stupidity is somehow correlated with left vs. right...?
ballNobody left (ultra or otherwise) voted for that asshat.
DocScrutinizer05I *think* there were also volume expansion issues in LiIon with the cell chemistry doing its thing?
Casperkmcia: smart meter actually does seems to be real, there is some unscientific proof, with zero medical backing
password2kmcia, how else am i supposed to keep my lipo warm?
DocScrutinizer05or did my memory make that up right now?
ballpassword2: Stick it in the oven.
password2ACTION sticks ball in oven
Casperbut many reported headache and went to their doctor, only to find out that they replaced the meters right before the headaches started. So, could be bad timing, or it could be real, but sure thing is: there is lies everywhere
Casperlike, they claim 0.01W transmission power, the truth is: 1-5W peak transmission power, and just a burst of transmission here and there, which average at the 0.01W...
ball5W at what frequency?
kmciajlf: which party is Trump from?
password2ball 7
DocScrutinizer05err what you're talking about?
kmciaand which party are these people
kmciaand so
kmciamaybe that relates to why this is an interesting thing?
ballACTION grins
kmciajesus man
jlfkmcia: i'm sorry but i can't parse that word salad
kmcialet's break it down real easy
Evidlo[m]the person next door is listening to really loud animu music
kmciasome people voted for trump. those people are very left. trump is very right. those people voted for him for a specific very odd reason.
kmciathat is all
LuminaxWkCasper: smart meter? headache?
LuminaxWkACTION tinfoilhats
ballkmcia: Source?
kmciai DON'T think intelligence particularly correlates with party affiliation and if you listen long enough you'll hear me make fun of idiots on all sides
CasperLuminaxWk: it is not excluded medically that it can happend
kmciaI do think that party affiliation correlates with willingness to accept evidence and reality, but that's a different thing from intelligence per se
DoYouKnowthey're just Frequency modulation, afaik
kmciaball: some article I read a while ago and probably can't find
Caspermost smart meters are installed illegally
DoYouKnowsome kind of frequency modulation maybe with a bit of phase
DoYouKnowmost of them
LuminaxWkI......... don't actually know what the hell we're talking about
LuminaxWkI saw smart meter, I saw headache
DoYouKnowsmart meters
ballLuminaxWk: Nothing. It's all bollocks.
DoYouKnowand their emissions
LuminaxWkwhich sounds like tinfoilhat :3
LuminaxWk...what emissions? EMI ?
Casperunfortunatelly, the gouvernement don't care, and nobody can fill a complain beside ham radio, and the CRTC/FCC just say: use another band
LuminaxWkand people don't carry RF transceiver in their pockets all day ?
ballI'm a ham and I for one welcome my new smartmeter.
ethosI wish I were a gam
LuminaxWksqueezed between two buns ?
kmcialook at what's happening in the us embassy in cuba before you write off tin foil hats :P
DoYouKnowethos: I took the test when I was 27
LuminaxWkI'm sorry but....牡蠣!
DoYouKnow26 or 27
DoYouKnowI'm now 30
LuminaxWkACTION googleimagesearch
DocScrutinizer05how likely is it smart meters are using the (fading out) 2G for internet access?
LuminaxWkah, here's one
DocScrutinizer05since only RAT I know had 2W bursts is 2G GSM
ballDocScrutinizer05: Hopefully they're not accessing the Internet.
DocScrutinizer05then they do M2M via 2G?
DoYouKnowI was reading the NSA publication (public domain) called The Next Wave. They have a new edition out that talks about device-to-device (direct) 5G communications modes
LuminaxWkSonic attack........ hrmph
kmciasonic attack done most likely using microwave auditory effect and radars
LuminaxWkthat's what you get for building a non-accoustic-isolated building
ethosDoYouKnow: Oh neat. I'm a still a fresh grad, but wanted to do more microelectronics reading before RF
kmciait's not acoustic
DoYouKnowethos: it's all connected
kmciathey're beaming microwaves into the building, maybe to mess with people on purpose, maybe to stimulate passive bugs (see: The Thing, or any of NSA's ANGRYNEIGHBOR devices)
SpeedEvilkmcia: bullshit.
DoYouKnowethos: good thing
jlfsome kind of audio-vibratory physio-molecular transport device????
kmciajust make sure you know that your Al helmet doesn't block all ~government~ frequencies
SpeedEvilkmcia: It's an embassy, it's going to have RF detectors out the ass.
SpeedEvilkmcia: any possibly human dangerous signal is going to be some orders of magnitude stronger than signals of concern.
LuminaxWkfuck....... stop playing videos/audios suddenly
SpeedEvilAnd will light it up like a christmas tree
kmciaSpeedEvil: *shrug* I have no retort to that, but it's a big assumption on your part that these detectors are present and work properly and can't be fooled by frequency hopping etc
LuminaxWkif I had wanted to watch video I'd go to fuckin' youtube -.-
DocScrutinizer05ACTION yawns and waves, happy Halloween?
kmciaI don't claim to know for sure what's happening... nobody should
kmciaexcept the people doing it
Viper-7DocScrutinizer05: LTE Cat M1 here afaik
DocScrutinizer05Viper-7: has no bursts afaik
DoYouKnowunlike some sounds where if you eavesdrop with someone wearing headphones it can bother you but not the guy wearing headphones
kmciabtw not unrelatedly I want to build a broadband microwave detector for my house
kmciamight use a cheapo SDR
LuminaxWkoh hey Viper-7
LuminaxWkyou long time no see :3
Viper-7DocScrutinizer05: shrug, wont pretend to know any details on how it works, but its what most modern smart meters use
Viper-7LuminaxWk: sup :)
Viper-7been enjoying my time between jobs, playing minecraft heh
DoYouKnowrelated to crystals
DoYouKnowand phonons
ethoskmcia: haven't worked with SDRs before. are they complicated?
SpeedEvilFrequency hopping to keep this sort of signal secret is like a tank trying to tiptoe across a field of gravel.
LuminaxWkbtw, you killed your ali search page ?
pfred1what's an SDR?
LuminaxWkAli search has been shitty lately
DocScrutinizer05then again, here power meters are frequently found in cellar so they rather will do IP over Powerline to next power distribution than any RF
ethospfred1: software defined radio
pfred1ethos I think I saw one of those once
Viper-7my old work did, it was hosted on my dev server there - when i left they shut that whole server down
Viper-7i'll be getting a new server once i start this new job, so it will be back
Viper-7but not for like a month
Viper-7i could host it from home if you really want it back, but bleh
Luminax-Workstupid internet
DoYouKnowso, has anyone here toyed with varicap diodes?
DoYouKnowany words of wisdom to offer?
ethospfred1: yeah i keep seeing the term thrown around everywhere, but haven't gotten a chance to play with them. think a lot of labs are starting to use them too
LuminaxWkViper-7: OK cool ;)
pfred1ethos I went to a ham club open house and one guy had one
LuminaxWkI was trying to find CP2102 yesterday but the search turns up with CH340G >_> fucking sellers
ballDoYouKnow: I've seen them used on radio receiver kits.
LuminaxWk"CH340G replacement for CP2102"
LuminaxWkno, motherfucker, I DO NOT WANT
Casperreport as spam
Viper-7meh, CH340G does me fine
LuminaxWkViper-7: that might be so
Viper-7they're allowed to use related keywords
DoYouKnowball: supposedly all you have to do is apply a reverse bias and that changes the capacitance between on the level of the reverse bias
DoYouKnowbut forward bias doesn't work
LuminaxWksoooo I can advertise for '96 Used Laptop, replcament for Apple iBook ? ;P
DocScrutinizer05DoYouKnow: yes, and what's the question?
ethosAnyone here ever make any ICs?
DocScrutinizer05not yet
ethosas in, layout
Viper-7LuminaxWk: yup
LuminaxWkclosest to 'making' an IC is Flea86's FPGA
ethosNot doping the wafer :P
DoYouKnowDocScrutinizer05: what effect would it have if I varied the capacitance with complex harmonics?
CasperDocScrutinizer05: don't mind him, he's... weird.... his mute most likelly expired and will come back soon enought
DoYouKnowlike basically a completely harmonic filled frequency domain
DocScrutinizer05DoYouKnow: sorry?
Viper-7LuminaxWk: so like, ?
LuminaxWkethos: so you're talking circuit layout ?
LuminaxWkViper-7: yep
DoYouKnowDocScrutinizer05: well, instead of applying a constant bias for a constant capacitance, feed it a waveform with a bias with many harmonics
ZeroWalkeryou are back doctor viper, i got my stm32 kinda working, do i get a medal?
LuminaxWkbut possibly one already mounted
pfred1Viper-7 how do you get those nice neat short links?
DoYouKnowcan I do quantum nondemolition detection that way?
ethosLuminaxWk: IC layout down to transistors, not PCB with discrete components
Viper-7pfred1: delete everything after the ?
pfred1ha ha
LuminaxWkethos: that's....wafer level
Viper-7bare chips:
pfred1OMG I'm at 81% with this build i hope it doesn't blow up on me
DocScrutinizer05DoYouKnow: the varicap changes capacitance proportional to applied voltage, of whatever waveform, up to the frequency limit of the varicap which prolly is determined by how fast you can charge/discharge the capacitor
LuminaxWkhmmmmmm might as well remake the jig and make a custom PCB for the Serial UART
LuminaxWkand then slap a USB-A connector
Viper-7when you say already mounted, you mean like this?
DoYouKnowDocScrutinizer05: the capacitance charging time and discharge time is related to the capacitance which is given by the applied voltage
Viper-7lol at "replace ft232" on that one :P
DoYouKnowin reverse bias
LuminaxWkerrr type B
pfred1I can't open up a browser right now
LuminaxWkyes, that
LuminaxWkand I couldn't agree more
LuminaxWkI for one will never use FTDI again :3
Viper-7or theres the ones with micro socket
Viper-7i have a few of those
pfred1LuminaxWk nevah!
ethosLuminaxWk: thought that was more die-level? while wafer level is process engineering with doping, photolithography, etc
LuminaxWkViper-7: I'd rather not
LuminaxWkour problem currently is the USB TYPE A connector broke off a lot
pfred1they did that kill code thing didn't they?
LuminaxWkimagine what'll happen with Micro B ?
ZeroWalkercan you use mikroProg with usb for stm32?
LuminaxWkour operators belong in WWE ring >_>
Viper-7how about pl2303 ?
Viper-7then theres the neater prefab cables
LuminaxWkViper-7: that's what's currently being used
Viper-7ZeroWalker: why?
LuminaxWkit's a long port USB type A with the chip et al embedded inside a molded case on the USB plug side
Viper-7so what i just linked :P
LuminaxWkcausing it to be heavier than your normal USB plug
ZeroWalkerwhat do you mean why;o?
LuminaxWkah.... yes
LuminaxWkEXACTLY that
Viper-7i mean why would you want to use mikroprog
pfred1it ain't heavy it's my USB dongle
ZeroWalkeris there alternatives? except arduino
LuminaxWkcausing the USB port to bend and break :\
Viper-7ZeroWalker: mbed or libopencm3
Viper-7but whats wrong with arduino?
ZeroWalkerah, which do you prefer?
LuminaxWkoh speaking of Arduino
ZeroWalkerwell i just find it kinda weird
Viper-7arduino :P
LuminaxWkyou know if the Nucleo board is compatible with STMDuino lib ?
Viper-7stmduino only supports the F103 afaik
Viper-7mbed supports most of them tho
LuminaxWkMBed sure does
Viper-7ZeroWalker: you can use arduino without using arduino for much :P
Viper-7my .ino sketch there just forwards the setup and loop calls to my seperate library
LuminaxWkso... hmmm.......the micro usb version seems to be the best bet
Viper-7and i use an external editor from there
tawrACTION smacks Viper-7
LuminaxWkat least if that's broken I can just replace it with new micro socket
Viper-7LuminaxWk: ESP-01 and go wireless :P
LuminaxWkthat would require me digging into C# code
Viper-7even those bt serial adapters
LuminaxWkwhich I don't fucking want to :|
Viper-7then it should be transparent
LuminaxWkI mean I already have the source code reverse compiled courtesy of dotPeek
LuminaxWkbut it's horrendous >_>
tawrViper-7: i pulled a dumbass move
Viper-7lol, wutnow
tawrremember how I was all into stm's and went to buy them and a few different stlinks and all that?
ZeroWalkerwell i have mostly just been trying to read the gb signals via it, so just digitalRead, but i think it's far too slow if i do any kind of output as well, so might not work out;d
Viper-7vaguely :P
tawri was like why aren't they in yet, it's been a few weeks, i forgot my aliexpress pass so i was being lazy and not tracking, finally get that fixed
tawri never pressed purchase.
Viper-7tawr: lmao
pfred1tawr a minor detail
LuminaxWkno no, the problem is not the UART side
LuminaxWkit's the USB side
Viper-7ZeroWalker: you can use the port registers directly instead if you need more speed
LuminaxWkA PC program talks to the serial
LuminaxWkTHAT I don't care to dig into
Viper-7LuminaxWk: then they only need a tiny usb bluetooth dongle on the usb side - or nothing at all if thir pc already has bt
ZeroWalkerport registers?
LuminaxWkoh, the bluetooth dongle presents itself as serial ?
LuminaxWkhmmmm that's interesting
LuminaxWkor I can also grab two ESP modules and do an ESP-to-ESP passthrough ?
LuminaxWkalthough I'm suspecting the jig has some burned out wiring/components caused by the connection of an Ammeter Port jumper wire into Voltage Meter ports...
LuminaxWkthe firework was spectacular, I heard
Viper-7GPIOA->regs->IDR returns the complete 16-bit value of PORTA in a single call
LuminaxWky'know... what part of 'Don't Fucking Touch The Jumper' can they not understand ?
Viper-7 might be better docs
pfred1LuminaxWk there's a guy on YouTube that blows multimeters up his channel is a riot
Viper-7ZeroWalker: or if you need even faster, you can do DMA
ZeroWalkerhow fast is the serial output btw? as it's nice for outputting debug info, but i noticed it slows down everything a lot
LuminaxWkpfred1: that's showmanship
LuminaxWkthis is just dumb
ZeroWalkeras long as i can get around 8-12mhz of gpio read speed, i should be fine i think
pfred1he'll take htem up to 15,000 volts if that's what it takes
LuminaxWkespecially considering that they're supposed to CONSULT engineering for jig setup and all that
LuminaxWkbut noooo.... "I CAN HAS BRAIN *plug wires* *BOOM*"
pfred1most fail around 3,000 or so
LuminaxWkanyway, I've ranted enough
Skreeno keep going i was finding it entertasining
Viper-7 was my code to output serial data at very high speed for a large LED matrix (over 1000 full frame updates per second to provide dimming on the raw shift-register based display)
LuminaxWkkinda a waste of breath though, cause no matter even if I confront my boss with this, he'll just defend his precious golden goose -.-
Viper-7LuminaxWk: as for ESP to ESP - kinda sorta - you'll need custom code on the ESPs, and have to manage pairing them somehow
LuminaxWkone as softAP and one as WIFI client ?
tawr^ 3 lines of code in arduino
Viper-7but they'll have to be preconfigured as pairs with the ssid/pass etc
tawractually i think it's already an example
LuminaxWkwell not quite 3 lines, but close enough
LuminaxWktawr: it is
ZeroWalkerdon't quite get the pullup pulldown thing
Viper-7as opposed to the bt option, where you just pair with whatever dongle you like, and enter the default pin of 0000 :P
tawrthere is already an example in the arduino ide when you load the esp module
LuminaxWkanyway, I'll just buy a boatload of these CP2102
LuminaxWkand charge my boss a 50% markup
LuminaxWk...too cheap ?
Viper-7ZeroWalker: gpio pins can be driven strongly high or low, left floating, or pulled weakly high or low - eg if you have a button that shorts the line to ground, you'd use a pull-up so the line is normally high, but the button can drag the line down to ground, without shorting out the pin driver
Viper-7basically its a ~50k resistor between a pin driver and the pin itself
LuminaxWkor like I2C where you're required to pull it high, lest the I2C peripheral goes bonker
Viper-7so when the button connects the line to ground while the pull-up is applied, the 50k resistor drops the voltage across itself, and the total current flowing through the button is still negligible
Viper-7as opposed to the voltage being dropped across the pin driver, which could easily burn it out
Viper-7lol, just had a kid show up to the door for halloween
Viper-7i havent been truck or treated in years
Viper-7he was in his school uniform too, such scary.
tawrit's not haloween
Viper-7is here
Hooloovo0there's still 10 minutes before then
Viper-73:47PM 31st October
tawrtrick or treating is done at night on the 21st
tawronce the sun goes down
Viper-7halloween is the 31st, but shrug
Viper-7i think he was just walking home from school and figured he'd try hitting people up for candy :P
tawroh Viper-7 look at mah new lapping plates: or if you have slow internetz
LuminaxWknext year I'll maybe put RGB pumpkin somewhere
tawrLuminaxWk: i showed you mine right, can't recall
LuminaxWkhuh ?
LuminaxWkdon't think so
tawri made the best pumpkin evar
tawrwith ws2812b + arduino
Viper-7LuminaxWk: yeah, year before last we had a pumpkin carving contest at work, with little mini pumpkins
Viper-7i stuffed LED lighting inside and pwned everyone :P
tawr LuminaxWk Viper-7
tawrfuck you, mine's still better Viper-7
LuminaxWkBetter Than Raw
Viper-7mine was fairly similar, but red eyes and orange mouth
Viper-7with some tissues stuffed inside as a diffuser
LuminaxWkACTION blasts some Midnight Sun
tawri used the plasticball i use for everything
tawri like the far right one
tawrthis year
tawri'm not feeling it
Viper-7dammit tawr
Viper-7you made me realise how skinny i was back then, or how much weight i've gained in the past year :P
^7heoViper-7: fat or?
Viper-7meh, i'll dox myself then:
tawrthat's a goddamn lie
tawrwe all know you're 3 aliexpress vendors stacked on top of each other in a trenchcoat
tawrso we know for a fact those pictures aren't you
dave0x6dlast two were 0.5V
dave0x6dthis one is 0V.
Viper-7because you touch yourself at night
LuminaxWkViper-7: you have the same inflation rate as me >_>
dave0x6dCan I remove the CMOS battery from a live machine?
LuminaxWkdave0x6d: yes
dave0x6dLuminaxWk: what does it even store anyway? Isn't a lot of EFI on EEPROMs?
dave0x6d*EFI settings
dave0x6dor is the CMOS battery really just for RTC?
Viper-7LuminaxWk: about 3 years before the first photo i was much larger than i am now, so eh
LuminaxWkCMOS battery only becomes relevant once power is off, it powers the BIOS config storage thingamajigga so they store your data
LuminaxWkand clock setting
LuminaxWkand et ceteras
LuminaxWkhuh? so O I O progression ?
Viper-7yah heh
Casperdave0x6d: the battery will hold the clock and the bios settings
LuminaxWkI've been steadily inflating :|
LuminaxWkanyway, it's break time finally!
Viper-7all i have to say about that, is that weed does wonders for losing weight :P
dave0x6dCasper: aren't settings in EEPROM? Otherwise, resetting UEFI settings would be trivial.
Casperusually, there is a resistor from 5V to the battery via a diode that provide power when the pc is plugged or powered on (depending on what the engineer did)
Viper-7since i stopped smoking it ive been packing it back on
Casperdave0x6d: there is no more eeprom on pc, all flash based now, and no, settings are in ram, battery backupped
password4omg Viper-7 , you look a lot like i imagined you would look
Casperthe password however may be in flash, but settings are in ram
Viper-7not sure if thats a compliment or an insult :P
HoolooBOOflash is a kind of eeprom
password4also , yer a skinny bastard
password4Casper: i only flash little kids and grandmas
dave0x6dCasper: okay so I never power down.
Casperbut be carefull
Viper-7at my worst, about 10 years ago,
Casperthe battery is kinda spring loaded
Casperit may take off and go short something
password4well congrats on the weight loss
Viper-7ty, cept now im packing it back on >.<
pfred1Viper-7 stop eating
Viper-7its not what i eat, its what i do
Viper-7or lack thereof :P
Viper-7the past two years i've been working from home, basically roll out of bed into my chair, then back again
pfred1get one of them treadmill desks
Viper-7the most exercise i get is walking outside for a smoke
pfred1a hampster wheel
electrobotpassword4 just linked to Hamster Wheel Standing Desk - YouTube
Viper-7i used to play a lot of DDR, which is a great workout
pfred1password4 all my great inventions always done already
password4pfred1: thats a good sign
Viper-7but i broke a toe a few weeks ago and while its pretty much fine now, i dont want to stress it as i'll be walking a fair way to/from work for this new job next month
Viper-7so while i want to get into shape for that, i'm limited in what i can do
pfred1walking is good
Viper-7lmao at the hamster wheel desk
linux_probetypical "work" desk
pfred1here's hamster man
electrobotpfred1 just linked to Shooda Noed Beter - Smokin' Hamster - YouTube
Viper-7next step, power the pc from it :P
CasperViper-7: what about some playstation motion games? like that gladiator game?
Casperwith 2 wand it get kinda quite intense
Casperspecially when you really do it
pfred1I might have been there that day
Casper... my shoulder hurt just by thinking about it again :D
pfred1dang they didn't show it fire on the video
password4with running you might get 100w or a few minutes
password4so a steady jog should be able to power a laptop
pfred1running is bad for you
Viper-7there are atom laptops in the <20W range (including display
password4whats the deal whith the hamster wheel pfred1 ?
pfred1Viper-7 how big a PSU is in your PC?
pfred1password4 it is a catapult
HrdwrBoBpfred1: it's like
HrdwrBoB15cmx15cm x 10cm
pfred1they used to shoot pumpkins wiht them until they almost killed someone
password4pfred1: does the wheel tention it?
Viper-7pfred1: i dont have a desktop
pfred1yeah it drew the spring down that is the human powered catagory
Viper-7my laptops have a 72W adapter and 40W adapter
password4category? was it for a challenge?
pfred1+Viper-7 you're a roadwarrior?
password4o they prolly draw 30-40W?
pfred1password4 to see who could throw a pumpkin the furthest
Viper-7had 2x i7 desktops and they both fried, so now using the two laptops with external monitor + kb + mouse instead
Viper-7need to get a new pc, just been too broke lately
Viper-7again, looking forward to my new job for that :)
pfred1I'm getting a new PC
pfred1well new to me
password4pfred1: ah , sounds fun
Viper-7after rent, bills, food, travel expenses, etc - new job will give me about $1000 per week profit
Viper-7pays about *4 times* as much as my last job
pfred1password4 it was OK mostly it was an excuse to get drunk
password4when you start with yar new jub , Viper-7 ?
Viper-74th december
pfred1password4 the event started as a bar bet or argument or soemthing
Viper-7so yeah still over a month away - living on government welfare till then which barely pays bills
Viper-7less than 20% of what my new wage will be
Viper-7but eh, gets me through
pfred1this job maybe you'll learn to save a bit?
password4yeah , put away $500 a week :D
pfred1it never hurts to put some money away
Viper-7yeah - well i have a bunch of stuff that needs spending money on up front - new pc, new car, etc - so i'll be living on about the same wage and just dumping cash into those to start
Viper-7then at least the plan is to stay that way, and just put the money away instead - but we'll see how that works out :P
pfred1meh a PC shouldn't cost much
Viper-7neither should a car (i dont need anything fancy)
Viper-7i paid $1k for my last car
linux_probewith all the junk chinesium parts in vehicles, they shouldnt cost no more tha 5K at best
pfred1I built this dumb program over and it's doing the exact same thing
linux_probemust be the dumb operator =p
pfred1well it used to work
password4well its likely to be a logic flaw
pfred1linux_probe but yeah if i just knew how to fix it I'd be good
password4or something is behaving differently than you thought it did
pfred1I got no idea why it can't find these files
pfred1or rather why it is not looking in the right place for them
linux_probein the wrong place. need registered in registry, wrong version?
pfred1no they're in the right place
linux_probeif linuz missing symlinks
pfred1the program just looks in the wrong place
norkleIntel(R) Core(TM) i3-7100 CPU @ 3.90GHz YEEE!
restorergonna put together a PC fan with some batteries, and USB charging board, and a boost converter in a bit here
restorerif I can tap into the 5V out without removing the USB output port, I can use it as a powerbank too :D
LuminaxWka PC shouldn't cost much...
LuminaxWkmy last PC cost AUD3700 ;P
Viper-7fookin hell
Viper-7said balls to it, just went and played a few rounds of DDR
Viper-7daymn that game gets hard fast
Viper-7got like 5 songs in before my foot started getting sore - will find out tomorrow if i regret that, but hey
pfred1how did you break your toe?
LuminaxWkmmmmmmm muscle cramps
Viper-7nothing dramatic, dropped something off the table, i spun around fast to catch it, little toe hooked around the leg of a chair, which clamped itself up against the table
Viper-7unstoppable force meet immovable object
pfred1that would do it I suppose
LuminaxWkthe shattering of the universe as we know it
Viper-7or just the shattering of my little toe :P
LuminaxWkthere was an interesting story about how the japanese word, borrowed from the chinese word, meaning contradiction came about... but let's not talk about that
Viper-7this was about a month ago, stopped hurting to walk on it about a week ago, and yeah, just got a slight twinge while playing ddr when i used it in certain ways (jumping and landing)
Viper-7nothing much, but i wont push it :P
pfred1gdb is never very enlightening for me
LuminaxWkplay Drum Mania ;D
LuminaxWkintense double-pedal action !
Viper-7doesnt quite count :P
LuminaxWkstill a workout :3
linux_probedouble pedal action to me is using right for for gas and brake at the same time
LuminaxWkah, drifter
LuminaxWkonly works for rear wheel drive cars
LuminaxWkor 4wd, to a certain extent
linux_probeI only drift on accident
Viper-7neh, just rev matching
LuminaxWkas long as you start the motion with handbrakes on tight corner
Viper-7engine braking ftw
LuminaxWkotherwise that mofo just won't spin :|
linux_probedrifting a 90's 3/4 van loaded with tools isn't recomended
Viper-7but not if you abuse shit out of your clutch
linux_probe3/4 ton :))
LuminaxWklinux_probe: I drifted a Nissan C20 once at 120km/h
LuminaxWk90 degree angle
LuminaxWkalmost rolled like a box ;P
Viper-7i read it wrong at first too, but brake and gas *with the same foot*, not just brake and gas at the same time :P
linux_probeI put my 1982 3/4 chevy van at a 45 angle sldie ont he xway once
Viper-7aka, the other foot is busy working the clutch
Viper-7otherwise known as heel & toe
LuminaxWkViper-7: brake and gas at the same time doesn't work :p
linux_probesome assclown in a ford van swerved directkly infront of me
Viper-7LuminaxWk: sure it does
LuminaxWkwell.... sure
linux_probeneedless to say my brakes worked good
LuminaxWkbut that's not the way to do it
Viper-7while braking, put the clutch in, drop it back a gear, blip the throttle to match the revs, and release the clutch
LuminaxWkyou don't just double slam the pedal
LuminaxWkor to put it in meme form "One does not simply.... double slam the pedal"
linux_probeI recovered it after sliding from 70mph to 40mph and way sideways
Viper-7extra braking thanks to engine compression - even reduced brake wear etc
linux_probeI thought for sure there was no recovery, considering I was across two lanes
LuminaxWkthat puts quite a bit of strain on the gear box and the engine's pistons, though
Viper-7nothing they cant handle
linux_probelucky I like to drive one handed, had left hand at noon on the wheel
LuminaxWkbut eh, most engine are well equipped to handle that
Viper-7if you do it wrong and fail to match revs, it'll wear your clutch
linux_probeit more or less whipped itself straight
Viper-7otherwise eh
LuminaxWkbut seriously, 4WDs just won't slide >_>
LuminaxWkwell... maybe a little bit
Drakonitethey will, but they won't drive the way RWD will
linux_probeACTION takes LuminaxWk out doing donuts in a 4wd
Drakonitethey will, but they won't driFT the way RWD will
LuminaxWkthat's where the handbrake comes in :3
linux_probehaving locked/spool rear end helps :)
Viper-7ACTION has been in an AWD drifing :P
Drakoniteof course, just look at rally racing, where they are all driving 4WD and driving around corners...
Viper-7drifting even
LuminaxWkAWD ?
linux_probebind it hard enough and the back end will go away
Viper-74WD but LSD not open/locked diffs
LuminaxWkI for once thought that was meant to somehow be FWD
Viper-7all wheel drive :P
LuminaxWkwhich just basically won't drift
Viper-7eg WRX, lancer evo, etc
LuminaxWkwell.... there's the handbrake, but it's just not the same :3
Viper-7thats powersliding, not drifting :P
LuminaxWkhmmm ? I thought Evo's locked diff ?
Drakonitegrowing up I got my permit just before a heavy winter, so one of my first official 'driving lessons' was my dad taking me out and wanting me to intentionally go in to a slide around a corner to understand what that was like
Viper-7maybe in rally they do, but not the consumer ones
linux_probedual handle is what we ran on rail buggies in the 90's
LuminaxWkoh...hmmm ?
DrakoniteDisappointingly the primary thing I learned was that I was naturally very good at correcting slides :-/
linux_probesometimes you need to apply both fast
Viper-7they have some fancy computer controlled hydraulic LSD
LuminaxWkso if that nuts won't drift properly without engaging the handbrake, fat chance it's a locked diff ?
Viper-7they can redistribute torque front vs back
linux_probebecause feet were too busy on the clutch ans gas
Viper-7at least in like evo 7 and up iirc
LuminaxWkI'm talking Evo III :3
Viper-7evo 3 was great
linux_probeACTION still recalls jumping a a huge road cutout in WV
Viper-7but you dont need a locked diff to drift
Viper-7its all about how you start it tho
linux_probecame up the hill side about 60mph
LuminaxWkno, what I meant is, won't the locked diff makes it hard to drift using your conventional RWD method ?
linux_probethe cutout was way wider than we though, about drove out tailbones and arses out or mouths
LuminaxWkbrake->shiftdown->rev match+brake
Viper-7locked diff makes it easier to drift, but is terrible for normal road driving :P
linux_probewas like 60+ airborne 15mph forwad and 30mph slam into other side
LuminaxWkh-mmm.... guess my technique was wrong then
Viper-7and yeah, with a locked diff you can just power-over into a drift
linux_probegravity and momentum won
LuminaxWkbut eh......... 14 years or so ago story
Viper-7with a lsd you need to throw it into the corner, use inertia to drop traction
LuminaxWkI know drift with a bike :3
Viper-7to be fair - i cant drift 4wd or awd, takes skills, practice and mostly, balls.
Drakoniteproper speed, proper timing with steer and blipping the throttle, any RWD car (with reasonable power) will go in to a drift, regardless of differential
Viper-7but i've been riding shotgun with someone who could
LuminaxWkI've drifted 4WD but not at the speed 'recommended'
LuminaxWka little bit slower
Viper-7the slower you go, the harder it is to drift properly
Drakonitegoing slower than recommended for a drift makes it more difficult to drift as well as more difficult to control
linux_probepeanut tires and big HP
LuminaxWkand don't try to drift on wet surface if you don't know how to drift properly on dry surface
LuminaxWkmy friend learned this the hard way...
LuminaxWkcost a Nissan SX180
LuminaxWkand a few broken bones
linux_probeall my accidental drifts have been on wet pavement
linux_probeso far 0 wrecks
DrakoniteI used to try to drift my boat of a FWD car in the winter, but the thing was just too damn stable :-/
LuminaxWkkmcia: it dropped into the sea below the cliff road.... he was lucky to roll out
linux_probeexcept the van one, dry pavement, I flat spotted 4 6 ply tires real bad
LuminaxWkluckily the road was very wide
Viper-7i went drifting in my old commodore (V6 RWD) in the wet - was all fun and games for over an hour, until i pushed it too far and spun it down a suburban street
Viper-7luckily managed to keep it roughly down the middle of the road so no harm, but yeah that was enough of that, at least for that night :P
DocScrutinizer05Commodore? cool
Viper-7only time i've really genuinely lost control of a car
LuminaxWkHolden ?
LuminaxWkooo fancy pants
tawri went into the wall at 80 in my turbo 240 years ago
LuminaxWkyou're THAT old, tawr? :P
kmciaLuminaxWk: holy shit
Drakoniteturbo... horse and buggy?
Viper-7turbo == carrot on a stick?
tawrflatfoot sidestepped and snapped a cv under full boost
tawrwas fun. crushed the quarter panel on my cherry hatch, my friend told me he'd make it better
DocScrutinizer05meh, thought you meant this one
kmciathree friends of mine went into an embankment on a freeway at 70 mph or so
tawrand spray painted a shocker in the crushed fender
kmciathey all survived
kmciabut with less intestines than they started with :P
tawrwhich then became it's name, because i'd fucking smoke everyone at the strip with it
Viper-7DocScrutinizer05: heh
kmciathis was the result of driver fatigue
LuminaxWkOpel made commodore? :o
tawralso lol LuminaxWk no i'm not old
tawrbut i've been doing this a long time
LuminaxWkokay ;P
Drakonitetawr, 240 years certainly is a long time
tawrnot really though. to an immortal it's a blink of an eye
tawrperception blurs across the decades
Viper-7 was my car
LuminaxWkah...."The Man From Earth"
DocScrutinizer05LuminaxWk: sure
jeffrey3234Is there a course anywhere that teaches all the basics of electonics? Voltage, current, watts, resitance, what all the basic componants do, how to measure all with multimeters, etc.?
Viper-7tuned ECU, suspension package out of the much heavier V8 version, potenza S03 tires (basically race grade with tread cut in them, they didnt last a damn but oh boy were they fun)
LuminaxWkjeffrey3234: beside university, you mean ?
tawrjeffrey3234: topic
LuminaxWkbook is your best bet, and youtube
Drakonitejeffrey3234, supposedly the links in the topic should cover a lot of that, or there are several youtube channels that do basics tutorials
tawrLuminaxWk: fuck you i'm faster
LuminaxWkI put a lot more emotions into it ;P
DrakoniteI put a lot more words in to it!
LuminaxWkbtw... how many people in this channel have watched that movie I mentioned
Viper-7i put a lot more cbf into it!
Viper-7ACTION wins
tawrLuminaxWk: i did
DrakoniteMeh, a few years ago I developed a VR racing sim to advertise a luxury sports car. I never was able to convince them to let me drive one of them on a track though :-/
DrakoniteI'm still disappointed about it
LuminaxWkI came to that movie searching for 'supernatural' or 'superpower' type movie
tawrDrakonite: go get your SCCA and a rental
LuminaxWkit was........ a bizarrely good movie
tawrit's not hard to get a SCCA or go get into auto-x
Viper-7LuminaxWk: thats a big fat 'noone'
Drakoniteeh, I can't be bothered to go through and pay for that. I'm just bummed that a company literally paying me to hype people about their car wouldn't let me drive it :-/
Drakonitethough TBF, there was only a couple prototypes available at the time
jeffrey3234tawr LuminaxWk thanks, really should have checked there first
DrakoniteLuminaxWk, which movie?
Drakoniteoh, nvm
LuminaxWkThe Man From Earth
tawrjeffrey3234: mike's electrical, wa2ew, mr carlson's lab, eevblod, great scott, and countless other youtubers teach you a lifetime of 'insider' eletronics knowledge for free
jeffrey3234I sub to a couple of those(eevlog, great scott)
tawrin order from most knowledgable and more technical driven to more entertaining
Viper-7best thing about that new, bright red, sports pack commodore? i got it second hand for like half of new retail price - previous owner? "Risk Management Services Pty Ltd"
tawrthose are on the low end
tawrbarely any tech
jeffrey3234but i keep coming back to simple questions
tawroh, also of course our resident Mehdi with electroboom
Drakoniteout of those, greatscott does have a few tutorial videos aimed at beginners
Viper-7im guessing someone got blasted by their boss and told they needed a less conspicuous company car :P
tawroops, disregard
LuminaxWkGreat Scott is good for beginner, imo
Viper-7eh, i'd put great scott at "early intermediate"
Viper-7he dives right in using a lot of terms that true beginners wouldnt understand
jeffrey3234if you could put you tounge between to terninals of a car battery would this kill you?
tawrjeffrey3234: check out mr. carlsons, wa2ew (my favorite), and mike's electrical (CRAZY ADVANCED)
tawrjeffrey3234: nope
Viper-7jeffrey3234: quite unlikely
LuminaxWkit...would....hurt a lot
tawrit would sting a bit
jeffrey3234they can put out like 450amps though, see this is the basics i need
tawrbut it wouldn't be too bad
Viper-7jeffrey3234: your body has a non-zero resistance
Viper-7thus you need a high enough voltage to pass enough current through your body to cause harm
tawrjeffrey3234: here's the thing. your tongue at 12v can only allow so much power to flow because of resistance. it doesn't matter if it's a 12v car battery or a huge generator.
LuminaxWkalthough on the tongue, the resistance drops quite a bit due to saliva
tawrit would still be ~50ma from the 450a battery or 50,000A generato
tawrthings only draw what their resistance (or electronics) allow
LuminaxWktawr: unless it's a 415V generator ;P
jeffrey3234tawr I think greatscott is too advanced sometimes, but I'll check out the first two you mentioned
LuminaxWkin which case it's kzzzzeeeeertttttahhhhh
Drakonitejeffrey3234, if greatscott's tutorial series is too advanced for you, wa2ew is going to be rough
tawrjeffrey3234: they're more advanced but they elucidate extremely well and are very articulate and eloquent in their teaching. the subjects are advanced, but they explain, draw, then SHOW you each step
Viper-7generally accepted safe limit for skin contact is 48V - above 60V and things can get lethal pretty easily - for your tongue the resistance is much lower, so you can get enough current to feel with as little as 5V - but this current wont pass through your heart, which is what typically makes electrocution lethal
Loshkijeffrey3234: depending on how serious you are, there is "Learning the Art of Electronics A Hands-On Lab Course"
tawrthat's the thing, wa2ew and carlson's lab explain each step
jeffrey3234tawr once I've covered all fundementals, i'll revisit
n2Viper-7, also, that voltage limit is for DC
n2Very important differentiator
Viper-7if you had say.. one terminal of the car battery hooked to your tongue, the other shoved up your arse... then thats a different story, and it could easily be lethal :P
n2Which is why most consumer DC things are sub-50V
LuminaxWkfor AC it's.... much lower ?
Viper-7but if both terminals are on your tongue, not such an issue
LuminaxWkor much higher.... eeeh
n2LuminaxWk, higher usually
jeffrey3234+Viper-7 good explanation, thanks
n2Viper-7, Incidentally
Drakonitejeffrey3234, yes, I'd highly recommend finding a couple tutorial series and specifically watching the beginning tutorials (and more than one set of them ideally), and them later going back and checking out all the content on the various channels mentioned
n2That is why you should not lie down on the ground in a thunder storm
tawrbtw jeffrey3234 450a is pretty low for a car battery, is it for a smart car?
DocScrutinizer05gawd, is this question recurring daily?
n2The voltage differential will be much bigger if the lightning strikes the ground
n2Across the heart
n2Than if standing up
DocScrutinizer05human body: 10kR 1/8W
tawrDocScrutinizer05: welcome to my cynical world
LuminaxWkwhich is why you should stand on top of a tall tr.... oh wait
DocScrutinizer05tongue: 800R 1/4W, hurts a lot
Viper-7jeffrey3234: fwiw people have been killed by 12V DC, but it involved either inserting electrodes under their skin, or huge electrodes on sweaty skin, on the front and back of the chest
ZeroWalkerViper-7, GPIOA->regs->IDR & 1 == A0 ?
Viper-7ZeroWalker: yup
n2Jesus Christ, kitty cat
n2You made IRC disconnect!
Viper-7ZeroWalker: most of my interaction with those registers has been for output, typically with the BSRR register (which is awesome), but yeah that should be all it takes
jeffrey3234tawr read that 450a number somewhere a while back, asked this question on other forums, didn't get answered
tawrjeffrey3234: to wrap it up. skin is pretty good at resisting power flowing. it has high resistance. sweat lowers resistance, it being wet lowers resistance. cuts REALLY lower resistance since it lets power go under the skin where your wet salty bits are.
ZeroWalkersaw BSRR being mentioned in the documentation, not sure what it was though
tawrjeffrey3234: the amount of current that flows is basd on the resistance of the thing.
jeffrey3234DocScrutinizer05 this question comes up often?
tawrit wouldn't matter if it was a 12v power supply, 12v car battery, or 50,000 amp power plant. it would still only be a few hundred milliamps.
DocScrutinizer05and answering next question beforehand: *No* you *CANNOt* probe the Ampere in a mains outlet, no matter how much you payed for your DMM ;-D
LuminaxWktypical car battery is like.... 40Ah, so assuming you short circuit it, and takes a 1second time frame
Viper-7Bit Set/Reset Register - the ports are 16 bits wide, and BSRR is 32 bits wide, the any 1s in the first 16 bits will set that bit in the port to on (effectively like OR'ing that bit onto the port register), and any 1's in the second 16 bits will reset (clear) the corresponding bit in the port register
LuminaxWkthat's 40x3600 A...... ?
Drakonitejeffrey3234, one thing that confuses lots of people: when you see a power supply/battery rated as 12v 100A, that means it pushes with 12V of force, and if shorted it can provide up to 100A of current. The current gets limited by resistance; a power source does NOT fight to push it's full amperage through a high resistance.
jeffrey3234tawr thanks
Viper-7GPIOA->regs->BSRR = 0b00000000 00000001 00000000 00000010 would turn bit 1 on, and turn bit 2 off, without impacting the state of any other bits on the port, in a single cycle
tawrno LuminaxWk it is 450a
tawror whatever it's CCA rating is.
DocScrutinizer05jeffrey3234: Ampere on a battery or cable or fuse are a "CAN do" value, not a "will do"
Drakoniteohm's law is literally the answer to everything: Voltage = Current * Resistance
Viper-7aka it'd force A0 high and A1 low, without changing the rest of PORTA
tawrand i=v/r jeffrey3234
DocScrutinizer05jeffrey3234: just like the "max 10T" label on your tow-away rope doesn't mean everything you attach to it weighs 10 t
LuminaxWkcold cranking amps...
LuminaxWknow that's the first time I've heard that term
DrakoniteThat is the correct usage of 'literal', and not really hyperbole. If you have a question in electronics, Ohm's law is virtually always involved :P
tawrthat tells you everything you need to know. the amount of current (always I) is equal to voltage / resistance.
jeffrey3234DocScrutinizer05 i see isee
Viper-7ZeroWalker: also if you come to the point where you're struggling with performance, the STM32s can overclock quite well with fairly limited consequences (reduced accuracy on the ADC is pretty much the only shortcoming with core clocks <= 128MHz)
tawrbtw jeffrey3234 besides youtube you know about SPARKFUN and ADAFRUIT? they're diy/hobby electronics suppliers:
tawrand they have thousands of articles with examples explaining everything from basic electronics to programming to embedded design
LuminaxWkI wonder if they sell beginners' kit ? hmmm
Drakonitehalf of what adafruit does is making tutorials for beginners
ZeroWalkerah nice, seen metions of overclocks but didn't find info about shortcomings
tawrclick that link and read jeffrey3234
tawrLuminaxWk: uh that's how car batteries are rated
Viper-7ZeroWalker: i have a simple lib for stm32duino which makes it easy to up the core multiplier if you want
tawrtheir amp hour rating is far less important than CCA
LuminaxWkI was talkin with my Japanese friend the other day who have private tuition school or somesort and mentioned about teaching basics of electronics
ZeroWalkerwell if it's simply enough why not
Viper-7jeffrey3234: an ideal "voltage source" will deliver the same voltage, regardless of load - and the current that flows will be determined by I=V/R, aka ohms law
jeffrey3234tawr I have an arduino, only did the blinking led, have 5 rpi's, but running them as linux boxes/media pcs
LuminaxWktawr: yeah, first time I've actually read that 'Cold Cranking Amps' term
Viper-7an ideal "current source" will deliver the same current, regardless of load - and the voltage that is applied will be determined by V=IR, aka ohms law :P
tawrLuminaxWk: yup, CCA is how batteries are rated. car batteries do 400-500A, truck batteries or cars with v8 engines tend to be around 600-700 cca
tawrmy truck has 2x 2,150A batteries in parallel
LuminaxWkshould be ideal to roast some meat, eh
Viper-7most supplies you come into contact with, including batteries, are primarily voltage sources - however they also include some of their own resistance and other parasitic effects
jeffrey3234tawr bookmarked, thanks
tawrfuck you i'll jumpstart an oilrig
LuminaxWkcould probably jumpstart a Nimitz class ?
LuminaxWkI wonder which one takes higher jumpstart amperage...
Viper-7ZeroWalker: hmm, i dont have anywhere handy to upload files to atm, so it'll be a little dodgy to send
password4I wonder what the average power consumption of a car in a city conditions are
DocScrutinizer05jeffrey3234: I found the analogy between electricity and water pipes always quite inspiring, particularly until I started serious physics classes in school at age of 10. Volt (voltage) = pressure, Ampere (current) = flow, and Ohm (resistance) = "how far you open the tap". Watt (power) = "ouch, that's mean to hose me like that" or "that's damn exhausting to pull up that many water in such short time"
LuminaxWkoh that's right
Viper-7ZeroWalker: make a folder under <arduino path>/libraries called stm32clock and put these two files inside it - clocks.h and clocks.cpp
LuminaxWkViper-7: do you know if IR-LED's transmission distance and power is linear ?
password4it occusrs to me with hybrids that you only need a gas engine big enough to account for short term losses
Viper-7LuminaxWk: shrug
password4because the gasengine can run continously recharging the batteries whilest you dont need the extra power
LuminaxWkboss told me to make a 'minimum gauge' for testing reference
password4i bet its somewhere like 10kW
LuminaxWkthe specs mentions 8 meters, he's babbling something about 20 cm
Viper-7ZeroWalker: you can then add #include "clocks.h" to the top of your arduino sketch (or external cpp library) and call eg sysSetPLLMultiplier(9); in your setup method to change the core clock frequency
LuminaxWkI'm bothered by the fact that 99% of our electronic parts came from Shenzhen... and nobody bothered to ask for a datasheet
Viper-7that gives a 5-bit PWM (0-31) and outputs a ~21MHz square wave (50% duty)
Viper-7using a 104MHz core clock
ZeroWalkerlet's see:)
password4LuminaxWk: you get what you paid for
password4if you want proper datasheets , buy proper parts
LuminaxWkdon't say that to me >_>
eirirschina parts without documentations? :D
LuminaxWkhands up whoever heard of IC maker called 'Silan'
ZeroWalkerhmm, my usb isn't recognized after using that o.o
ZeroWalkerthough i only used the pll multiplier
password4LuminaxWk: also check ebay listings of your components , sometimes they list more data about the parts you ordered
ZeroWalkerokay reflashed it via serial now it works again, so i guess i did something wrong with the overclock thing
Shawn|4650Manyone here know what saturation current is?
LuminaxWkthat's.... usually concerning BJTs iirc?
LuminaxWkhow hard you drive a BJT before it reaches saturation
Ducklecould be for inductors too
Ducklebut there frequency component to that too
Ducklethere's usually*
LuminaxWkanyway, you could probably provide a little more context ?
zigggggyLuminaxWk duckle is here!
Ducklezigggggy: :)
zigggggyACTION pets Duckle
DuckleShawn|4650M: ^
Ducklethe context part, not the petting :P
DuckleACTION pets zigggggy back
zigggggyACTION isnt a pet
Duckleagainst the grain
Ducklezigggggy: is wood aparrently
DuckleI mean, what else has grain? :P
Shawn|4650MI'm trying to find the specs for saturation current for a 1N4148 diode
Shawn|4650MEveryCircuit does not have specific diodes :(
DuckleShawn|4650M: why?
Shawn|4650MI need to modify the in-program diode to match the specs of a 1N4148
LuminaxWksatu...cur..... 1N4148 ?
Ducklesome sort of spice?
Shawn|4650Mbecause this
LuminaxWkDuckle: capitalization is important ;P
LuminaxWkotherwise it goes into the cupboard... with the rosemary, and the thymes...
DocScrutinizer05LuminaxWk: IR LEDs are roughly linear photons per joule, distance/range however is similar to all fields
DuckleLuminaxWk: hehe
LuminaxWkDocScrutinizer05: what I wanted to know is where the fuck did my boss got the '20cm' distance when the spec mentioned 8m for the minimum transmit power distance
jaggzreally programmers could afford to present some dignity.
DocScrutinizer05LuminaxWk: hint: sphere surface
LuminaxWkthere's a receiver unit designed by the Japan branch some 20 or so years ago that you can tweak the voltage of a comparator at to show OK/NG
DocScrutinizer05LuminaxWk: nfc what your boss is thinking and in which context, based on which rationale
jaggzwhat's NG?
LuminaxWkDocScrutinizer05: exactly
LuminaxWkjaggz: No Good
DuckleShawn|4650M: for your use-case, what matters is the ohmic resistance, and forward voltage
Shawn|4650MDuckle, but saturation current affects a diode in a big way..?
LuminaxWkjaggz: taking a scrotum? bwehehehehe
DuckleShawn|4650M: The real question is, what are you doing with a 555 timer? :)
Duckleif it's for doing a learn, then sure. But if it's for a practical usecase, just slap a micro controller in there. It's cheaper and simpler, and more capable
Shawn|4650MI'm trying to figure out how to make a 3v to 6v voltage boost converter...
jaggzLuminaxWk, capturing it.. yeah.. heh
Duckleget a chip that does that :S
Shawn|4650Mand I'm running out of time, I need it by tomorrow
DocScrutinizer05LuminaxWk: you can easily test a LED output from 20cm distance, it's much harder from 8m distance. However your results at 20cm distance even allow to calculate the level of signal at 8m or any other distance
DuckleShawn|4650M: Use a simple switcher from TI
LuminaxWkso anyway, if the power transmitted vs distance is somehow a linear correlation, I can see calculating the minimum transmission over a shorter distance, provided you calculate the required power and designs the receiver accordingly
Shawn|4650Mand as I had already stated, I dont have time to wait a couple weeks for shipment, let alone afford it right now..
DocScrutinizer05no, this is NOT a linear relation
Shawn|4650Mtheres a chip in something that I can salvage from a piece of electronic equipment that I have, then i need to figure out how to do this discreetly
DocScrutinizer05at twice the distance the light spot is 2^2 times the size
Ducklewait are we talking inverse square law?
LuminaxWkuh.... maybe ?
Shawn|4650MI need a solution that wont eat up the samsung smartphone battery
Shawn|4650Mits a 3.7V 1500mAh Li-Ion
DuckleShawn|4650M: I can't tell you anything other than, get a propper switching psu chip for that
Shawn|4650M. . .
DuckleShawn|4650M: what do you need to power?
Duckleis it like, <1mA?
Shawn|4650MI need to get a 3.7V battery up to 6V at currents varying between 30mA to 120mAh
DuckleShawn|4650M: There's been some youtube videos on that subject recently from julian ilett I think
LuminaxWkanyway... I'll put up some lab tests for that IR LED
LuminaxWkpresumably, the beam at 8m and the beam at the recalculated 20cm or 10cm should be able to activate the comparator
electrobotDuckle just linked to DIY Boost Converter || How to step up DC voltage efficiently - YouTube
LuminaxWksignifying the remote under test passed the minimum transmission test
Ducklethat ones not recent, but it's far up there
Shawn|4650Mive seen this...
Shawn|4650Mwasn't very helpful
Shawn|4650MI don't have the components he has
Shawn|4650Msuch as that tower variable resistor
password4no linear IC will boost voltage ;D
ZeroWalkerhmm, it's weird, i am probably doing something very wrong, but i can only seem to detect 2-3 4mhz clocks from the GB during one vsync (ca 60hz). it's supposed to be 160, and this is nowhere near that xd
Shawn|4650MI dont have any programmable ICs
Shawn|4650Mnor even a programmer
Shawn|4650Mthose are too hella expensive
DocScrutinizer05LuminaxWk: good luck with detecting a IR LED from 8m distance without using either a carrier frequency or a highly directional receiver (aka telescope)
LuminaxWk$2~$6 is expensive ?
DuckleShawn|4650M: ...
DocScrutinizer05at least the usual remote control IR LED
LuminaxWkDocScrutinizer05: it's supposed to work at 8m, like you know, your normal TV etcs. although of course usually 4m or so is your average remote distance
Viper-7ZeroWalker: how are you trying to detect the clocks
DuckleShawn|4650M: tower variable resistor?
DuckleShawn|4650M: Do you mean a mosfet?
DocScrutinizer05LuminaxWk: those all work with a carrier frequency
DuckleShawn|4650M: And no, arduinos are not expensive, they are like 5 usd
LuminaxWkof course
Shawn|4650MI have some mosfets
Viper-7ZeroWalker: and yeah sorry heh, the usb stuff derives its clock from the core clock, you can overclock while using usb, but you must adjust the usb clock divider - which i dont have code handy for
Viper-7i very rarely use USB with them so i forgot about that
Shawn|4650MI was referring to a willem programmer
DocScrutinizer05there was an article in german magazine about it: "IR remote control: a Signal/Noise ratio horror show"
LuminaxWkDocScrutinizer05: it's an IR remote, they all have carrier frequency
DuckleShawn|4650M: Why would you want that?
Ducklearduinos are programmed over USB
LuminaxWkand PICs are programmed with PICKIT
LuminaxWkand STM32 are programmed using STLink...
DuckleShawn|4650M: I'm sorry man, a DC/DC boost converter might be a few steps too far for you to learn about and make with at hands components, in a day
LuminaxWkwhat the fuck is a Willem programmer ?
Viper-7AVRs are programmed via AVR-ISP or other such
LuminaxWkseems I have heard that somewhere...
ZeroWalkerViper-7, i am simply reading from the pins constantly, so very inefficient but at least it should be fast
LuminaxWkACTION googles
Viper-7AVRs with a serial bootloader can be programed via serial port, but that applies to basically everything
ZeroWalkerViper-7, ah, but with STLink that's not a problem?
Viper-7ZeroWalker: pastebin code?
Viper-7ZeroWalker: correct
Viper-7stlink doesnt care about the stm32's clocks, its asynchronous EPROM programmer ?
LuminaxWkwait..... wait....
DuckleLuminaxWk: It's a 30 USD programmer for eeproms from what I can see
ZeroWalkersomething like this currently (changing it a lot as i test):
Duckleoh wat
Shawn|4650MDuckle, this is not my first day on working with electronics..
Duckleyeah EPROM
LuminaxWknot even EEPROM ?
DocScrutinizer05LuminaxWk: I got your info like you're planning to set up a comparator to sense an absolute light level
LuminaxWk.... 1980s called, they want their toys back ;)
LuminaxWkDocScrutinizer05: in a way, that's how our current receiver are set up
DocScrutinizer05LuminaxWk: for IR remote control that's like receiving a braodcast station from measuring the voltage on a wire with your DMM
DuckleShawn|4650M: No, but you're unfamiliar with arduinos, and couldn't use the video (or similar) to get the relevant concepts behind boost converters
LuminaxWkI want to see the waveform over the carrier at around 6~8m distances, see what I can pick up beneath all the noises
DuckleShawn|4650M: on top of that you also want it to be effecient, something only really acheived by experimenting with the "just right" inductor, the propper switching transistor, the right driving frequency, etc. etc.
DocScrutinizer05yeah, good luck with that, without using a highly selective frequency filter in between
DocScrutinizer05well, doesn't even need to be highly selective, just 100dB FC and LF rejection
LuminaxWkfrom what I've seen in my oscilloscope from a 2m capture, I don't need any frequency filter
Shawn|4650MI guess no one has done 3v to 6v before or something..
LuminaxWkfrom 8m that might be a different story but eh
DuckleShawn|4650M: ...
LuminaxWkI haven't seen that 6m~8m waveform so I can't really say
Duckleyou don't think people have boosted a voltage to a higher voltage?!
ZeroWalkerwell gotta go, i expect to learn much from you maste viper, stay tuned
LuminaxWkhmmmm actually I might have...
LuminaxWknow where did I keep my scope screenshot
LuminaxWkShawn|4650M: people have boosted 3V to 18kV ffs
LuminaxWk3V to 6V is like oreos
Shawn|4650MI'm not finding any pre-built circuits like I did for a 555 latching circuit
Viper-7ZeroWalker: i probably wouldnt break out isvsync into a seperate function like that, just because it would be easier to optimize if it was doing that inline - but the real issue would be the Serial.print() calls in the isClock function - these take a bunch of time, so will block the rest of the code while they transmit data - if you want to capture stuff at high speed, you should write the information you capture to a buffer, then periodically dump t
DocScrutinizer05fro 8m your signal will be 1/(8/2)^2
Viper-7hat via Serial.print(), so you dont have to make that call when handling each bit
LuminaxWkDocScrutinizer05: absolute power?
DocScrutinizer05iow 1/16th
LuminaxWkmight need some filtering eh... but then again
Shawn|4650MI understand that LuminaxWk
LuminaxWkfuck where's my photodiode
flor1anACTION throws a bunch at LuminaxWk 
Viper-7Shawn|4650M: approaches for something like that vary dramatically depending on load current
n2Shawn|4650M, voltage boosting is simple
LuminaxWkit's raining photodiodeeeeeeeeee
n2Voltage boosting at higher current is less simple
flor1anhalleluja? :)
LuminaxWkno, it's ouchouchouchouchpinsouchouch
Shawn|4650M30mA to 120mA isn't much
flor1anLuminaxWk: quite close still heh
flor1anhm, which UV sensor to get>
LuminaxWkseriously though, where the heck is my IR photodiode
n2Shawn|4650M, it is if you consider the input current it would have to handle.
flor1anapplication will be indoor garden monitoring (flower pots mostly)
Viper-7Shawn|4650M: TI have a nice appnote describing a charge pump designed to take 1.5V up to around the 3V mark (actually like 2.7V but hey), which is just a voltage doubler, so would boost 3V to 5.7V in the same way
LuminaxWkurgh.... I need parts cabinet and my boss still won't approve the purchase order
Shawn|4650Mokay so its double the current to boost the voltage
n2100V, 100 mA is 10 watts, Shawn|4650M
LuminaxWkand then he have the BALLS to call my lab 'messy'
n23V at 100 watts is 3.33 ampere.
n2*10 watts
n2Assuming 100% efficiency
Viper-7Shawn|4650M: well you need at least the same watts in as out yes, a bit more to account for inefficiency in the converter
n2Which won't happen
Shawn|4650Mn2 thats extremely high, way out of my remote situation
LuminaxWkhaha 100%...
n2Shawn|4650M, whats your input and desired output?
Shawn|4650Mmy input is 3.7 to 4.2V
p0g0flor1an: why UV sensors, plants don't much like UV and it's not plant avaliable energy?
LuminaxWk3.33A would be what the converter is CAPABLE of providing
Shawn|4650Merr 3.3 possible
Viper-7Shawn|4650M: but that circuit is designed for lower power applications - i think at around the 2mA mark the voltage starts to sag
LuminaxWkdoesn't necessarily means your remote will get whammed by 3.33A
flor1anp0g0: exactly thats the reason. to find out if they have too much
n2Shawn|4650M, and the output?
Viper-7its made for a <1mA microcontroller
flor1anp0g0: had issues this year with plants asuminly having too much light (and thus, UV)
Shawn|4650MI need 6V at 30mA to 120mA
flor1an(you may keep the typos)
n2That'll do the trick for you.
Viper-7if you want higher currents, you should really look to a proper switching boost converter, with an inductor and whatnot, rather than a charge pump
n2There is even an online calculator for you to use
Shawn|4650MACTION facpalms...
n2Right here
p0g0flor1an: where would you be getting UV exposure from? Total light saturation is easy to fix... space blankets for example.
n2To pick your component values
Shawn|4650Mlike I even have one of those..
Viper-7mc34063a will do a decent job yeah
n2Shawn|4650M, so buy one
flor1anp0g0: don't want to blanket up all my windows.
n2They are super cheap
Shawn|4650Mlooking at a stinkin online catalog isn't going to find me a solution for the next day
flor1anp0g0: but as a decision helper 'is the window spot cool' or not
n2Yes, it is
n2You can buy those in any fucking electronics store, online or not
flor1an(not cool as in temperatur, tho)
n2The problem, Shawn|4650M, is
Viper-7those chips are super common, and should be available just about anywhere
n2You could do something with a transistor and an inductor
n2But you'd need several opamps
n2To regulate it
Viper-7they dont have the lowest quiescent current draw, but beggars cant be choosers
Shawn|4650MI dont have any electronics stores open locally anymore
n2Because you would get a random-ass voltage out
LuminaxWkMC34063A and MC33063A is the 'vanilla' of DC to DC converter
flor1anp0g0: i can see my motivation being different from what you'd expect maybe, i'm like 'i need dis'
n2LuminaxWk, yep.
Viper-7the main issue with a DIY SMPS is that the frequency has to be rather high, and you need a very fast response speed and decent resolution to give any decent regulation
n2But they are reasonably efficient, and pretty easy to use
flor1anp0g0: because quite honestly, you're right ;)
p0g0flor1an: the lesions on a plant from too much UV are usually pretty distinctive. Total sunlight is usually not an issue either, plants just make and toss away sugars- the stressors tend to be more about water and heat.
Shawn|4650Mn2, so I'm the problem for coming in with a valid need for assistance in a project..
n2Shawn|4650M, no
n2You're the problem because you're rejecting solutions left right and center
Viper-7i have a ton of these
Viper-7which are damn handy
LuminaxWkoh, right, I forgot about voltage converters...
Viper-7they'll happily do 3V to 6V at around 1000mA
n2Unfortunately, it's not always a McGyver thing, Shawn|4650M
Shawn|4650Mso waiting 2 weeks for something to arrive is going to help me being remoteless for my projector tomorrow...
n2You can't make 3.3V into 6V
Shawn|4650Mn2, it has for me so far
n2Using duct tape
LuminaxWkViper-7: you remember that circuit with the 3V 1.8V and 1.4V thingie I mentioned quite a while back ?
n2Shawn|4650M, you can order for the next day.
n2Do you actually have some electronic components
n2Or do you expect magic?
Viper-7Shawn|4650M: if you need a quick solution, add a second battery...
Shawn|4650MI can't afford the shipping anyways
LuminaxWkso, suppose I want to control the MC33063A/MC34063A output voltage via DAC, would that be possible ?
n2LuminaxWk, not really...
DuckleShawn|4650M: Use 4 AA batteries
Viper-7LuminaxWk: kinda sorta almost
Duckletadah 6v
n2LuminaxWk, what you should do there...
LuminaxWkACTION eyes LT3080
n2Is have it regulate to a reasonable voltage
Viper-7you can put the DAC in the feedback loop, but it'll shitty up your response
n2And then drop it with a DAC-controlled linreg
n2Or use a more fancy converter, of course
Shawn|4650MDuckle, I have a battery that fits where the 4 AAA plastic molded shroud use to go
LuminaxWkso I'll just buck down from 12V to 5V for the MCU/System, and then LDO it from there to an MCU controlled LT3080 ?
DuckleShawn|4650M: Wait wait wait, so you need it tomorrow, so ASAP, and it already takes 4 AAAs?
Shawn|4650MLuminaxWk, I happen to have one of those MC34063A DIP chips with me right now
Shawn|4650Mfrom a car 12v charger
n2The trolling is unique
Shawn|4650MI dont have the AAA's it consumes within a week
flor1anp0g0: anyways, which sensors would you hook up to a plant? besides the obvious photocell, soil resistance, temperature (air, soil)
Shawn|4650Mn2 the hell with that, I'm not a troll
Viper-7LuminaxWk: technically speaking, you can probably MCU control an LM317 :P
DuckleShawn|4650M: You don't have the components for a boost converter either
LuminaxWkViper-7: technically speaking, yes :)
DrakoniteViper-7, just not 'probably', but it's semi-common apparently
n2Shawn|4650M, just slap some batteries together
Shawn|4650Mwhat makes you say that..
LuminaxWkhmmm...that's probably cheaper eh
Ducklecontrary to popular memes, ducttape and WD40 won't solve all problems
LuminaxWkdamn LT3080 is so expensive
n2Shawn|4650M, the fact that you don't have a simple, often-used IC
Shawn|4650Mn2 thats is most certainly NOT the way to go about it
n2But Shawn|4650M
DrakoniteDuckle, true, sometimes you need tacos
n2It is if it's what you've got
n2And if you can't afford shipping
LuminaxWkDuckle: unless you're MacGyver
n2Then it IS what you've got
n2What's so difficult to understand about that?
Ducklesource in comments?
Shawn|4650Mn2, what simple often used IC?
n2If you don't have the components to build stuff
n2Then you don't build it
n2You do something else
DuckleShawn|4650M: ZXLD1615 would work nicely
Viper-7LuminaxWk: how much current do you need on those lower rails?
n2Tell you what, why don't you operate your fucking presentation from the computer? :P
LuminaxWksorry, I mistook that term
p0g0flor1an: a strain guage, that's a better indicater of soil available water (adjusted for the gaining mass of the plant) than the conductivity methods. Wind speed if you are a Plant Science type. Look up the PhotoSynQ project if you want a tricorder for you plants.
Viper-7if its very little, you can probably do most of this with a quad opamp or such
LuminaxWkViper-7: it varies with remote, but burst current for the IR LED can reach up to 800mA
Shawn|4650Mand MC34063A chip wont work out here Duckle ?
n2Shawn|4650M, lmfao
DuckleShawn|4650M: Look up the datasheet
LuminaxWkor maybe... more? I don't think it goes more than that but
n2You're a troll because you whined that you can't get it
Viper-7Shawn|4650M: yes, it will, as we've mentioned many times
password4n2: your doing apresentation about fucking?
Shawn|4650MI have it up Duckle
n2And now you all of a sudden have
DuckleShawn|4650M: Does it say boost converter?
Viper-7Shawn|4650M: you'll need an appropriate inductor and such, but hey
DocScrutinizer05lol, great theatre
Shawn|4650Mwell Ive been trying to work on this for 2 days
LuminaxWkquad... opamp?
Shawn|4650MViper-7, I have a slew of inductors
n2If you have a 34063
LuminaxWkyou mean... building my own voltage regulator ?
n2That web page is all you need
n2It will even show you the circuit
n2You should be happy
LuminaxWkor using the opamps in the feedback loop ?
n2It can calculate /everything/ for you
Viper-7LuminaxWk: not even that fancy, a voltage subtractor
Shawn|4650Mand I have wire that i can wrap a toroidal inductor with, trying to find
DocScrutinizer05Shawn|4650M: you probably better mow aunt emmi's garden for last 2 days, so you could afford like 4 dozen AAA now
DuckleShawn|4650M: Dude, figure 9
LuminaxWkVo=V2-V1 stuff ?
DuckleI uhm.
Ducklethanks for all the fish, and so long
acetolineI've discovered that the typical schematic that's given for buck/boost/flyback power supplies is totally wrong.
Viper-7or just like, make a voltage follower, but feed Vin from a filtered PWM from your micro
n2Shawn|4650M, it makes no difference.
p0g0flor1an: you might want a spectral analytic tool, there are cheap ones based on wavelength specific photodiodes- that would give you the mix of blue and far red spectra.
DuckleViper-7: He doesn't have programmable ICs
acetolineyou know, the one with a mosfet, inductor, and capacitor.
LuminaxWkahum..... filtered PWM turned to a sort of ripply voltage...
acetolinewell, not wrong, but leaving out very very important details.
Viper-7Duckle: i'm talking to LuminaxWk not Shawn|4650M
Duckleoh ok :P
LuminaxWkbut then... would that be enough to supply the current I wonder
acetolineand I've discovered just how complex modern power supply designs are
Viper-7LuminaxWk: but yeah, no good if you want large output currents - although that depends on the duration of these bursts i guess, and wether you can supply those from capacitance
LuminaxWkmost of the remotes already have built in tank/bypass cap with quite large values
Duckleacetoline: You're saying the typical application diagrams from the datasheets are wrong?
p0g0flor1an: and that light level by frequency is more applicable to a particular species than any total energy measure. You may have plants that have photoperiodicity and need the far-red, for example.
LuminaxWktypically in the hundred uF range
acetolineDuckle: datasheets for what?
n2Duckle, more likely that the simple diagrams (MOSFET, inductor, diode)
n2Duckle, are wrong
Duckleacetoline: switchmode controllers
n2the conceptual idea
n2Of a regulator
acetolineno, I'm not talking about those, Duckle
Viper-7LuminaxWk: i assume if the voltage sags during the test it'd be less than ideal.
Duckleacetoline: Oh ok
acetolinen2 has the right understanding
LuminaxWkw-eeeeeell not quite
Viper-7LuminaxWk: maybe we're looking at this the wrong way
Viper-7a few fets and series diodes? :P
LuminaxWkit sags even with my expensive regulated power supply
Duckleacetoline: well yeah, those diagrams are just mainly to explain the concept
LuminaxWkseries..... diode ?
n2acetoline, the devil is in the feedback
n2Controlling it properly
Duckleacetoline: If you want something fun, read this :)
Viper-7well diodes have a forward voltage drop correct? thats relatively constant based on load current
n2Viper-7, yes.
LuminaxWkaaand using that to drop the voltage ?
Viper-7so you can have a string of diodes in series to yield the lowest desired output voltage - then use mosfets to short em out when needed
acetolinen2: well I mean it should be obvious that the hard bit is making the controller. But just how complex a modern controller is, is never stated
n2acetoline, amazingly complicated.
p0g0flor1an: I'd guess the only other component a palnt science type might want is the gas concentrations, esp CO2, & O2
LuminaxWkthat's.... an interesting concept
n2You should watch the
n2What I call
n2"Kenny Keysight" videos on the EEVBlog channel
n2I always think they guy is called kenny key sight, because the text breaks
n2Yada interview with John
Ducklen2: The recent interviews?
n2Kenny Keysight
n2Duckle, yes.
LuminaxWkhowever since the specs calls for a really tight voltage I might as well go for an MCU controlled LT3080 or something.... hrrrrrmmmmm
Ducklen2: Those are really good :D
n2There's a talk about the digital feedback control
n2Of their SMPS's
acetolineI recently learned about quasi-resonant power supplies, and it turns out that is now old-hat and obsolete
LuminaxWkspecs said.... "3.00V ± 0.05"
LuminaxWkI was like whaaat theeeee fuuuuuuuck
Viper-7lol jeez
n2acetoline, the good thing about electronics
n2Is that stuff that's old-hat and obsolete
Viper-7you might be able to use a digipot i guess
n2Is still really useful.
LuminaxWkit's a fucking BATTERY OPERATED REMOTE
Viper-7(as opposed to a voltage dac)
Ducklen2: I especially like the bit where they go over how they get really good analog EEs from uni, just to never have them do actual analog EE, but DSP stuff instead
LuminaxWkyou're getting 3.2V damnit lol
LuminaxWkViper-7: digipot?
n2Duckle, it's fun but a bit sad, too
LuminaxWkif I need to touch it, it's out of the picture
Ducklen2: Meh
Viper-7you dont
n2I understand Keysight's motivation
LuminaxWkah, binary/byte controlled value, then ?
Ducklen2: the real world sucks, dealing with it in a world we create is much nicer ;)
n2Duckle, oh totally
DuckleDSP to the rescue
n2It was just random whine
Shawn|4650Mwould a 220 labeled shielded inductor work for 220uH?
LuminaxWkalso... I built my 8-channel DPDT relay board, and suddenly found out I'm out 3 relays
LuminaxWkgoddamn old junks <_<
n2Shawn|4650M, If the inductor is 220H, then yes.
Shawn|4650Mlooking at figure 15
LuminaxWkACTION pokes n2 
n2LuminaxWk, micro
n2The letter is called mu
Shawn|4650MmicroHenry uH
n2APologize for the unicode if that messed up
Viper-7mu ju too
LuminaxWkI know
LuminaxWkyour symbols shows up unrecognized here
Viper-7worked for me
n2LuminaxWk, ah. Not an UTF-8 IRC client then.
LuminaxWkah, must be my fonts then
LuminaxWkdid mine work ?
n2Or your font is messed up
n2LuminaxWk, yes
LuminaxWkcool, I'll just use mine ;P
Viper-7its funny, this client wont let me send UTF-8, but i can receive it just fine
LuminaxWkbtw, that's in the Japanese fontsets
Viper-7oo, that worked (here)
Duckleµ is on the danish keyboard layout
Duckleoddly enough
Viper-7μp yoμrs
LuminaxWkyay ;P
Ducklealtgr M
n2Duckle, are you danish?
Shawn|4650Mthe 220 labled shielded inductor I hav reads 0.2Ohm 0.02uH
Ducklen2: When it's convenient
LuminaxWkI just type "myu-" on my Japanese mode and it goes up :3
Shawn|4650Mwhy does it read that small?
n2Shawn|4650M, then it's a 22 H inductor.
LuminaxWkor 'maikuro'
n222, with 0 zeros after it
LuminaxWkanyway, break time!
n2i.e., 22.
Ducklen2: Also when I leave the internet I think I'm in Denmark :P
Viper-7because 0.02 == 22
n2Duckle, just think?
Viper-70.02mH yes
Viper-7otherwise 22nH ? heh
Ducklen2: I mean, I'd have to roll up my curtains to make sure :P
n2Duckle, depending on where in the country, that may be terrifying.
n2And if you have not guessed it
Duckleactually I'm at a lecture for EE math :S
n2I unfortunately /know/ I'm in Denmark
Shawn|4650Mall I can find online for an inductor calculator are color coded calculators, anyone know of one that shows 3 numerical digit calculation?
n2Shawn|4650M, it's not difficult, man.
Ducklefourier analysis
n222 + 10^[last digit]
Viper-7Shawn|4650M: its normally 2 digits then the multiplier, in microhenries
n222 * 10^[last digit]
n2So, 222 is 22 * 100, i.e. 2200 microhenries
Viper-7but its not quite a universal standard, some arent marked properly
n2But you should always measure
n2Duckle, ah.
n2Fourier analysis is quite cool.
Viper-7eg that marking doesnt allow you to make a 0.5uH inductor
Duckleit is, if I'd paid attention at the start of this chapter
Viper-7because theres no /2 "multiplier"
Ducklen2: Where are you from? :)
n2Duckle, Originally, Aalborg
Viper-7the lowest you could go is 010
n2Moved to Allerd (Copenhagen area)
Ducklen2: Dude
n2Now, Hobro
DuckleI'm in Aalborg
Viper-7being 1uH
n2Aalborg Universitet?
Ducklelive on Danmarksgade
Duckleold teknisk skole
n2We used to call that the Gaza strip...
n2Back in high school...
Viper-7thats where other notations come in, eg 0R5
Shawn|4650Mwhat might the digits be for a 170uH inductor?
Viper-7but yeah, 221 should be what you're after
Viper-717 and 1 zero
n2(Had a friend who lived there :P)
n2But yeah, I moved to the countryside
Shawn|4650MI was looking for the wrong inductor value, not 220uH but 170uH
Ducklen2: was Teknisk skole still on Danmarks Gade when you lived in Aalborg?
n2Duckle, it's not that long ago...
Duckleoh ok :P
n2I don't think so
n2I'm 28
n2Not exactly ancient
Ducklewell, these appartments are 3 years old :)
n2Used to live in Aalborg until, what, 2010-11
n2It probably was there when I was a child :P
Duckleright, so these appartments weren't even being built when you moved :)
p0g0ACTION mutters something about kids on his virtual lawn
n2But I was around Danmarksgade recently
Ducklefeels like they're always building somewhere here :)
n2I was freaked out
n2The amount of new student apartments etc
n2Is fucking /MASSIVE/
Duckleit's insane
Duckleneat to see. just buildings popping up
n2Well, Aalborg actually has a lot of growth potential, to be fair
n2The university is actually really good
Ducklen2: Have you seen that budolfi parking has been torn down?
n2Duckle, yes.
n2And hated it.
Duckleit's so dumb :S
Ducklebut interesting to watch the construction going on
n2I don't even know where the parking spaces are these days
p0g0In the US, there is a statitistic that about half the students in a college stay within 50 miles of their uni- that makes the school a huge economic engine, and why they just build more of them.
n2So I just park at my old high school, always room :P
n2It's reasonably close to the city centre :P
Ducklen2: Well, aparrently they are in a bit of a disagreement in the local government here. And the party in charge said something like "there's a lot of spots in city syd"
Duckleand busses
n2Fuck city syd
n2It's insane
n2I was there on a friday night
DuckleI like what they did in Aarhus with dokk1
n2I had no idea there were so many kids out there
n2Drinking and doing stupid shit
n2Sounded like a fucking war zone. :D
Ducklehah, I wouldn't know. I'm only ever there when bauhaus is open :P
n2Also, BILKA at 11 pm
n2Is a fucking nightmare
n2Just sayin'
Ducklen2: Eh, Netto on Vesterbro is open 24/7 :)
n2ACTION lives in the countryside
n2We have no need for such modern conveniences
Ducklehehe. I want snacks, and I want them bloody... in 15 minutes
n2Although I was pissed when the Netto across the street moved
n2It was nice to walk 10 meters :P
LuminaxAndroI've been talking to a wall....
DuckleLuminaxWk: That's not that smart
p0g0I'd worry if it talked back...
n2Anyway Duckle
Ducklewalls don't tend to say much
LuminaxAndroWall known as ns identifi ><
n2I am fucking amazed
n2At long last, a dane on IRC
LuminaxAndroOr identify
n2Who isn't from the copenhagen area
Ducklen2: haha
n2It's only been like 14 years of continuous IRC history for me
DuckleBeen here a while too. Kinda interesting we've never bumped into eachother :P
Duckleor well, while mentioning nationality :)
LuminaxAndro14 years? Noob :p
acetolinen2: I know another Dane on irc
n2It was sort of incidental
Ducklethat's half his life :)
acetolinewho isn't from Copenhagen
n2Only because of mu
acetolinehe's not on this channel though
Ducklelol yeah
n2Although because I use a Mac
n2It's just regular Alt+M
n2But a different mu, than yours
Ducklemy mu is better than your mu
LuminaxAndroA Macuser
DuckleI have to urge my IRC database now and then
Duckleit reaches 5GB rather often
n2LuminaxAndro, I have to
LuminaxAndroACTION raises an eyebrow
n2Since the work I do involves Apple products
DuckleLuminaxWk: I'm in ~40 rather active channels
n2It's that way or nothing
Shawn|4650Mhow do you calculate what 0.02mH is on a chinese tester?
Shawn|4650Mis that .02microHenries?
n2Shawn|4650M, ... 0.02mH * 1000 = 22uH
n2M = milli
password4someone should make a keyboard with µ on it
Ducklen2: M = mega
LuminaxAndro"My mu-shake brings all the geeks to the yard"?
n2Duckle, unless you're SPICEing
n2Then it's Meg
Duckleif I'm spicing it's 1000000
LuminaxAndroMy SPICE accepts M
n2My SPICE is LTspice
n2The only one I like
Duckleis there any other? :P
n2Duckle, sure
n2I use EAGLE for PCB layout...
n2It uses ngspice
n2Which is useless
Duckleyou can't make me beleive there is
n2LuminaxAndro, LTSpice is PSpice
LuminaxAndroThe one true SPICE
DuckleI use SPICEgirls
n2Duckle, SPICEworld?
Duckleit's extremely unproductive
n2Or whatever the movie was called
LuminaxAndroI'm talking about the real deal
Ducklep0g0 pins are cool
n2p0g0, Arrakis.
LuminaxAndroNot some lite.... pssshhh
n2Or, Rakis if you like the later books
n2Which you shouldn't
DuckleLuminaxAndro: just had a tire go flat
n2Especially not the lesser ones
n2By Brian Herbert
n2Duckle, At least you have something with a tire
n2I assume a bicycle
n2Because you're a uni student
LuminaxAndroSmartphones aren't for ircing
n2ACTION is prejudiced
DocScrutinizer05n2: wait, since when is Eagle using any spice?
n2DocScrutinizer05, since now
n2They added it in the most recent version
password4i like how we got 3 'm's in SI
password4mu , m , M
LuminaxAndroCutthroat version
Ducklen2: I mean, I do have a bike, but I'm fat and the hill is steep
DocScrutinizer05ooh, so they found another "vallue added function" to justify their fucked up licensing?
Duckleand it's cold
n2Duckle, the hill /is/ steep
password4next we will have |\/|
Duckleso bus bus bus
n2I remember it
n2Fucking nightmare
tgeekyi can't wait until the day that PCB/schematic/layout/SPICE/EMI simulation is all under the same package
n2tgeeky, all but EMI is in SPICE
DuckleI used to bike bike bike, but got pretty bad in the head, and now I'm just happy to show up at uni
LuminaxAndroDevalued Added Function
n2Duckle, that happens
tgeekyn2: is the spice full featured?
n2I had a massive depression at uni
tgeekyor does it have limitations
n2tgeeky, it's a full ngspice
tgeekythat's kind of impressive
Ducklen2: How'd you get on the other side?
n2You map your schematic components to models in the schem editor
n2Duckle, medicine and therapy
n2Psychologists are shockingly cheap if you get a referral
JyZyXELwhere can i find the switches used in behringer mixers?
n2JyZyXEL, open the mixer up
n2Find the part number
n2Go on digikey
JyZyXELthey have no part number
n2Then write them and ask
joe_zn2, they won't have the exact part
joe_zbehringer uses cheap shit
n2joe_z, likely not
n2But the original part that China copied
joe_zdigikey wouldn't bother to carry it
Ducklen2: so how does that work? Go to your doctor and say "shits fucked in my head yo"
n2Duckle, yep, basically
joe_zhad this issue just the other week with fixing a behringer mixer for a friend
n2I did
n2Worked fine
Duckleand then he says "I'm not equipped to handle that weirdo, talk to my friendo here"
joe_zcouldn't find any info in english on the manufacturer of the original part (a sliding pot) :D
n2Well, what you do is
n2You go to him to get medicine
n2Then you say you'd like a referral to a psychologist
n2He/she gives you one
JyZyXELyeah im trying to fix the mixer with bad switch contacts
JyZyXELspraying IPA and then contact cleaner did not fix them
joe_zJyZyXEL, same issue here, but with a pot
JyZyXELopening one up... wow...
n2Incidentally, I used to study medicine
joe_zone wiper went open
Ducklen2: Might actually do it
n2I know most of the GPs in Aalborg
DocScrutinizer05n2: that's a highly localized advice
Ducklen2: Because it's fucking with my studies
n2Yeah, that's not good
joe_zbut that was because my friend never used a cover, and dust got in the pot
n2If you're in a state that is messing with your life
DuckleJyZyXEL: wat
n2Then it warrants, well, treatment
JyZyXELthey are _very very very very very_ hard to put back together
LuminaxWkaaand back
joe_zJyZyXEL, yep
n2DocScrutinizer05, it's specific to Denmark
joe_znot impossible though
JyZyXELlet me show you :D
DuckleDocScrutinizer05: Denmark is 5.5 mil people btw, just for reference :)
Duckleso, yeah, rather local :)
LuminaxWkthat digital pot looks interesting
n2Duckle, which praktiserende lge do you have?
LuminaxWkshould be able to hook that up to the MC34063A and do some fancy potting
n2I might be able to tell you a proper approach
Ducklen2: Dunno. I'd have to check my card
Ducklewhatever was available when I moved here
JyZyXELthe red switch is never going back together
LuminaxWknow to see if E14 stocks them....
JyZyXELnow, does anyone know what those switches are called though?
password4what do you guys call an roof outside for shade?
DuckleJyZyXEL: DPDT latching switch
Ducklepassword4: Halvtag
password4my native to english translator is broken
Ducklethat's danish
password4in english?
n2password4, a canopy
LuminaxWka canopy :3
password4thanx , i translated what duckle said
password4the literall translation from afrikaan is off-roof
DuckleJyZyXEL: That doesn't look that complicated
flor1anp0g0: ic, thanks
DuckleJyZyXEL: You have two contact surfaces that sit on the mainsliding bit, you have the lathing bar, and the spring
LuminaxWkhmmm that's a weird number of steps.... 129 ?
Duckleman my spelling
LuminaxWk257 ?
Ducklemain sliding bit, latching bar
Shawn|4650Manyone here know how small 22 awg is?
joe_zShawn|4650M, it's 22awg
joe_zmy point being, put some meaning behind your question....
LuminaxWkah... that's what a rheostat was... I sorta forgot
DuckleI read that as "sorta faggot"
n2Duckle, hell, your doctor might even be my older brother
Ducklei've been on reddit too much
n2In which case you should just tell him to shut up and cooperate
n2Duckle, hahahaha
Ducklen2: haha
n2Reddit will do that to you
Shawn|4650MI have digital calipers out
LuminaxWkACTION roasts Duckle 
flor1anp0g0: ah, nice, air quality sensor is on the way already, forgot about it
LuminaxWk.wire 22AWG
Shawn|4650Mis 29mm too big?
DuckleLuminaxWk: medium roast please
LuminaxWk!wire 22AWG
electrobotLuminaxWk: 22AWG (22.7SWG, 0.33mm², 0.64mm dia, 25.3 mils) Cu Wire Free air: 5.24A, Enclosed: 3.52A, Windings: 0.92A, mOhm/Ft: 16.14, mOhm/m: 52.96
DuckleI don't like my coffee too roasted
n2Duckle, oh hell no
n2It must be roasted!
n2If it has to hit my lovely italian espresso maker
Ducklenot starbucks roasted
n2It has to be well roasted
n2Oh, their heavy roast is horrible
LuminaxWkpft Starbucks
n2LuminaxWk, oi, it's a relatively new thing in Denmark
n2We're so excited
DuckleI uhm... have preground beans
adschey, what kind of software is common for programming of industrial hardware, like machines used to control some electric motors etc.? I only know the hobby world with Arduino and C...
n2When McDonalds came to Denmark, studies of the youth culture there was actually carried out
n2We are very fascinated, yes we are.
n2Duckle, oh no you don't
Ducklen2: I mean, we've had barasso for a while
LuminaxWkadsc: in 'Industrial World' they use this thing called a PLC usually
n2Duckle, yeah but they just changed name
Ducklen2: Peter Larsen nr66 was on offer for 20dkk
n2I can accept it only because it's decent
DuckleI bought 8 bags :S
LuminaxWkof course you can turn your Arduino into full blown industrial controller
n2My coffee is Lavazza...
Ducklethat's spensive
n2Because you could get it with the coupons in Ftex
LuminaxWkbut there's a lot of steps involved in making sure it's industrial compliant
n2Well I'd buy it anyway
p0g0adsc: SCADA
n2But it was so much cheaper
Duckleisnt' that the stuff actually from itally?
n2Used all the shitty coupons, so we have ~15kg
n2Oh, it is
Duckle... wat
LuminaxWkn2: Duckle: no CoffeeBeans at your place ?
LuminaxWktoo bad :3
n215 kilo bags
Shawn|4650Mso 22awg is 0.64mm?
DuckleLuminaxWk: Sure, but the grinder took up too much table space
n2Instead of 150 DKR, they were 69DKR a bag
adscLuminaxWk: ok, maybe "industrial" was the wrong term, what I meant was professional, you know in appliances that you buy, like dentist's tools or car onboard software etc.
LuminaxWkDuckle: no, I mean the coffee shop I just linked
n2And that can be solved, Duckle
p0g015 kg bags of coffee? You'd better get to drinking the heck out of that.
n2The coffee machine grinds it :P
n2p0g0, we do.
LuminaxWkadsc: most of those stuffs have their own ASICS
n2We go through a single kilogram in a week or so
LuminaxWkbut some uses your regular ordinary 8-bit/16-bit/32-bit MCUs
Ducklen2: You need one of those kickstarter machines that used green beans, roasted ground and brewed
adscLuminaxWk: and those are programmed with regular C? Not something like ACL2 or so?
n2Duckle, yeah except...
n2Getting green beans is a pain in the ass
p0g0ACTION has long contemplated the coffee bean bean bag chair, with little heaters and fans to drive the scent past your head... comfy!
LuminaxWkregular C mostly
Ducklen2: Well they were happy to sell them to you ;)
LuminaxWkalthough it'd depends on the MCU and architecture and the development environment you'll be using
DuckleRUST :D
LuminaxWkmost that I've encountered seems to favour C
LuminaxWkACTION WD40s Duckle 
DuckleLuminaxWk: WD40 IS NOT MEMORY SAFE
flor1anWD40 is anything-safe.
DuckleACTION segfaults
n2My WD40's tip broke
n2I need a new can
flor1ani lost the tip
Ducklejust the tip
flor1ancan still full
Meadjust the tip?
flor1anthat sucks
adscLuminaxWk: does a dev environment come with the hardware you buy?
n2flor1an, my tip broke.
LuminaxWkyep, or they're available (most of the time for free) from the maker's website
adscI see
DocScrutinizer05n2: get a new can, save the tip when empty
flor1ann2: i just think we need wd40 by the gallon to feed into an external airless compressor
n2I need to get to the construction store
n2To get a new can
flor1anone of these machines you use to spray paint large areas
n2Too lazy today though
Duckleadsc: embedded stuff is usually C, though some high reliability stuff can be ASM
p0g0WD40 is way down my list of Useful Chemicals. you might be better off with that broken token can.
adscI'm just wondering how to break into the professional world, if I've successfully made a "machine" with hobby tools like Arduino etc.
p0g0flor1an: you don't add oil to a paint sprayer compressor...
Duckleadsc: get hired by a company making products
LuminaxWkArduino is, in my opinion, a bad starting place
LuminaxWkbut eh
p0g0unless you want to muck up the paint.
DocScrutinizer05there are suprising number of different "standards" for spray can tips
DuckleYou're not far off with arduino tbh
flor1anp0g0: i know at least 2 models that'd be able to spray paint wd30
Shawn|4650MI guess the clear copper spool of the 3 spool radioshack enameled wire pack is 22awg
flor1anand then dispersion again after a quick rinse
adscLuminaxWk: I've mostly moved on to C now from Arduino code
Duckleadsc: Things arduino doesn't teach to: Reading the datasheet
flor1andispersion in german is something i don't know how to translate
LuminaxWkDuckle: Arduino obscures too much of the underlying system
flor1anbasically white color
p0g0flor1an: check out Break Free CLP, it makes WD40 look like piss.
n2Duckle, LuminaxWk
n2Thank you
n2You are completely correct.
DuckleLuminaxWk: It gets people in :)
LuminaxWkwhile it's good for modular, quick turnaround, surface level programming
flor1anp0g0: but... muh wd40 religion...
LuminaxWkonce you get into the hardcore nitty gritty level you'd wish you started with PIC/AVR
Duckleand when you want to mess with PWM freqeuncies and such, you're gonna fiddle with registers :)
DuckleLuminaxWk: Arduino is AVR
LuminaxWkon the underside, yes
flor1anp0g0: next you tell me gaffa tape is inferior? *shivers*
p0g0not all arduinos are AVR
Duckleyou can almost ignore arduino entirely
LuminaxWkbut none of the underlying system is exposed
Ducklep0g0: Not anymore no
Ducklebut meh
Ducklethe SAM ARM stuff is... arduino ish
p0g0flor1an: nah, I will try to stay in my lane.
LuminaxWkArduino is, after all, an ecosystem of abstractions and libraries
flor1anp0g0: very much appreciated, thank you sir.
DuckleLuminaxWk: In my eyes, arduino serves as a way to lower the learning curve
DrakoniteLuminaxWk, not so much that it's not exposed as that there are wrappers people use, and almost no one bothers to look at the exposed underbelly
LuminaxWkDrakonite: true
LuminaxWkit's exposed, just never looked at
DuckleI'm still surprised at how slow digitalwrite is
flor1anp0g0: anyways there hasn't been a case where WD40 or gaffa tape wouldn't have solved the problem at hand.
Duckleflor1an: Tell Shawn|4650M that
Viper-7LuminaxWk: there are many other models btw, that was just an example
LuminaxWkalso Duckle : I came from electronics background, more specifically analog
flor1anso i REALLY DO WONDER whats going on above
Viper-7(first one google returned)
flor1anDuckle: y?
LuminaxWkdigpot ?
LuminaxWkmmhmm, thanks
Shawn|4650Mtell me what?
Duckleflor1an: Just, a joke we said earlier. ducttape and wd40 won't solve everything ;)
flor1anShawn|4650M: lved the problem at hand.
flor1an09:56:45 < Duckle> flor1an: Tell Shawn|4650M that
flor1anoh FUCK IT
LuminaxWkDuckle: my first brush with the 'micro' soft/hard combination is with Motorola's 6800 ;)
adscso is PIC or AVR also used professionally, or is it just for hobbyists?
LuminaxWkTHAT was the era when your ROM is a PROM
password4what happens when you spray wd40 on ductape?
LuminaxWknone of these EEPROM bullshit :P
Viper-7as for what i've been up to lately, just took a bunch of screenshots of my minecraft-ing :P
flor1anShawn|4650M: anyways there hasn't been a case where WD40 or gaffa tape wouldn't have solved the problem at hand.
flor1anthat ^ (now THAT was hard.)
LuminaxWkI'd take a picture of my Black Desert empire but eh...
Viper-7password4: you get slime :P
Shawn|4650Mi know that
n2Duckle, at least he disappeared
n2After magically finding a 34063
n2Oh shit
flor1ani sometimes do reggae festival 'infrastructure'
n2He didn't
LuminaxWkare you playing minecraft or farmville? rofl
flor1anbelieve you me wd40/gaffa are the gods
eirirsfarming simulator
Shawn|4650MN2 Ive had it
DuckleLuminaxWk: My first brush was PIC ASM
DuckleRISC is pretty neat :)
Shawn|4650MI was going to use it to make a 12v to 8.3v down converter
DucklePIC 16F something
Shawn|4650Mbut that 12 volt battery is not very good
Shawn|4650Mthis is more sensible
DocScrutinizer05ACTION headdesks a little
LuminaxWkalthough I have to say, Motorola have the nicest ASM out of all the things I've had the opportunity of ASM-ing
LuminaxWkbut that might be just me :3
n2LuminaxWk, ARM is actually nice.
n2Especially the, well, more CPU-oriented feature. Vector math and such.
LuminaxWkn2: never had the chance to ASM it, might try one day
LuminaxWkI'm still waiting for my new job offer
n2RC4 implementation in ARM assembly
LuminaxWkthey said they'll provide me with my own personal lab......
n2Wrote that one tired summer day
synx508PIC assembler is fun, particularly on the older chips
DuckleI'm with eirirs
Ducklehe knows what's up
synx508Also using the 16C was far better for learning than the 16F, because if you made a mistake it was an entire UV erase cycle to fix it
DocScrutinizer05the IR code?
p0g0JAL was a decent language for PICs, long ago, anyway.
n2DocScrutinizer05, Ron's Cipher 4
DuckleAn ATtiny9 microcontroller that plays a chiptune.
DuckleBecause 32 bytes of RAM should be enough for everyone.
n2It's a stream encryption thing
DuckleI love that project :P
Duckleand I love that tagline
Duckle32 bytes of ram
Viper-7LuminaxWk: heh :P well yeah focus for the past few days has been on that farm, switching all my power generation over from pumped & refined oil, to biofuel - just coded the computer monitor thing today to keep track of what stuff in the farm is over vs under producing
n2Duckle, oi!
n2I have some 24 byte RAM PICs lying around.
Viper-7higher tech stuff coming soon, i should have a fusion reactor online by the weekend :P
LuminaxWkwhen are you gonna install a hyperloop? heheh
LuminaxWkso.... speaking of PICs and AVRs.... and SAM
Viper-7if you havent seen it, this was my old tokamak
tgeekyit's just an asian fusion reactor, he's going to shoot chinese and italian food at each other and see what recipies result
LuminaxWkKeysight's DAQ 'switching module' is nothing but relay boards controlled with an ATSAM
Viper-7all those computer displays are custom code (in lua -_-)
synx508I'm more impressed by Tom's Diner in a 328p than a chiptune in a Tinytiny tbh
LuminaxWkyour...crafting room reminds me of Wolfenstein
tgeekyViper-7: way too much time on your hands
Ducklen2: could be fun
Ducklen2: I've got a spartan 6 devboard laying around
Ducklethose are fun!
n2Those /are/ fun
Viper-7this was the last time i built the type of fusion reactor i'm going for this time
n2The guy wrote me a PM
Viper-7the proper tokamak was just wayyy too much - both effort to build, and resources to run - my computer slowed to like 1 fps while it was running
Ducklehmm. I still have time to back that.. I don't have a need for one though
Duckleuugh the time preassure
n2Duckle, Right now though
n2I'm more interested in an FPAA
n2I've been meaning to order some for some time
DuckleField Programmable Alcohol Array?
n2Analog Array
Viper-7tgeeky: i havent played it in like 3 years, so while i have a month between jobs i'm diving back in for a while :D
password4n2 are you getting one?
Ducklen2: ooh
n2password4, yeah
password4i ordered mine yesterday night
n2I'm pretty much decided
n2To buy some Anadigm boards
LuminaxWkDuckle: n2: I have a shit tons of PAL/GAL :3
password4I've been reading FreerangeVHDL
password4i forgot how nice a nice handbook is
Viper-7oh, Flea86 reached his target? nice :D
Ducklen2: Why did you have to make me aware of FPAAs
password4by like 150+%
n2Duckle, because
Ducklenow I have to be amazed that that's a thing
password4someone bought 20
DuckleI don't have the capacity :P
n2Anadigm is discontinuing their 5V line
n2The demo boards are cheap
Viper-7of course he launched it like the day i lost my old job
DuckleViper-7: They're not expensive tbh
LuminaxWkso I can ask for pointers from Flea86 if I want to open my kickstarter/IGG
Viper-7and i'm still broke for another month now, so i cant back it
Viper-7Duckle: im on govt welfare atm, more than i can afford atm
Ducklesame :(
Ducklethe broke part
Shawn|4650Mon figure 15 of page 9 in this manuual, what is the marking for the far right inductor in the board?
DuckleI'm just bad at managing my money, so yea
Shawn|4650M87* ?
DocScrutinizer05n2: it's really hard to get the catch of those FPAAs
Viper-7my old job paid about $450 a week, welfare pays about $310 a week, new job pays $1700 a week
DuckleI'm paid 600$ a month
Duckleby the state though, so uhm. I can't complain
Ducklewhile attending uni for free
n2ACTION pays Duckle to become talented
n2Indirectly, yes
n2But still
Ducklehey I paid taxes too :P
DuckleI've worked since I was 13
password4well if you are attending Uni
Ducklebecause it wasn't legally allowed before
password4i would go back to uni for $600
Duckleit's pretty sweet
password4become an fpga master
LuminaxWkI only want that piece of paper
DuckleI was just used to 5600 USD/month income during my gap year
Ducklewhere I was also still living at home, so basically no expenses
LuminaxWkI've found out that knowledge of Uni is only useful to you, but never get appreciated by the people who hire you :|
Viper-7i dont like being on welfare, but its got me out of trouble here - my last employer didnt fire me or such, just stopped giving me hours - and kept stringing me along for the last fortnight telling me he had work to give me to get on with, until the fortnight was over and i'd logged no hours, and had no savings
LuminaxWkbut show them some impressive looking paper and wow!
DuckleLuminaxWk: Might be different here
Viper-7now i've got this new job which pays great, but doesnt start till early december
n2Duckle, So, you can assemble my kits
n2I'll pay you minimum wage
password4fucking hell
n2(The kits I make, not just random ass kits)
DuckleLuminaxWk: There's companies out here each month tring to hire students
LuminaxWkso anyway, I got my RN2903A module going
Viper-7mmm, ass kits
password4if i got 5600$ a month , i could retire in like a year or 5
LuminaxWkunfortunately I have no LoRa gateway to test it with :D
Ducklen2: uuuhm, yes? :D
LuminaxWkACTION considers driving uptown to where there's a LoRa TheThingsnetwork gateway
LuminaxWkor riding
Viper-7yah, i'll be on $5450 a month
Ducklen2: Holy danm. that better be a brick wall of a Lowpass to warrant that level of complexity!
Viper-7$7100 AUD
n2Duckle, it's not.
n2It's two pole
n2BUT it is voltage controlled
n2The cutoff is variable with a simple input voltage
n2and it's not built on an operational transconductance amplifier
n2So thats an achievement in and of itself :P
Ducklethat's pretty neat
n2The prototype board...
Viper-7after tax, rent, bills, food, transport, etc - i should have about US$3000/mo profit
n2ACTION is still working on the PCBs
electrobotDocScrutinizer05 just linked to Frank Zappa - Dummy Up - YouTube
Ducklen2: And you're using jellybean trannies too
n2Duckle, yep. But, consider it.
n2What is a transistor but a current-controlled impedance?
Ducklen2: heck, I'd love to do the PCB stuff too :)
n2The only thing to watch out for is the DC biasing
n2Which is why an NPN and PNP together constitute the resistance
Ducklen2: s/transistor/bjt/ ;)
Viper-7n2: when its a mosfet, and is voltage controlled instead :P
n2I caught that one too
n2To fill that gate-source and gate-drain capacitance...
n2Current /is/ needed...
Ducklebjts are voltage controlled too :P
n2Duckle, yeah
DocScrutinizer05>>Jeff Simmons tries to corrupt Napoleon Murphy Brock by showing him a lewd dance and suggesting that he'd smoke a high-school diploma...)<<
n2but, anyway, in a reductionist viewpoint, it's a CCR
Ducklejust, yaknow that diode junction IV curve is fun
Viper-7yeah, if you wanna split hairs, both are both
n2So glue an NPN and a PNP together
n2And you've got a linear (with current) resistor
n2That can be varied with the input voltage (-> current)
DuckleViper-7: if you're splitting split hairs, can a mosfet be said to be current controlled?
n2Duckle, yep
n2The input capacitances
Ducklethe current isn't controlling anything at steady state, the charge on the plate is
Viper-7Duckle: from certain perspectives, yes
n2The switching action is current controlled
DocScrutinizer05s/Napoleon Murphy Brock/ LuminaxWk/
Ducklemoving between states is current dependent
Viper-7Duckle: you added "at steady state", that wasnt specified before
Viper-7the whole point is while its within the linear region
n2Also, Duckle
n2The straight ahead solution would be to use JFETs or MOSFETs
LuminaxWkDocScrutinizer05: I'd smoke it if it's Bradford's A-Class Masters Degree in Electronics
n2But they perform worse, and less linearly
n2Than those BJTs
Duckleanyways, n2 I'd love to look at a PCB design :P
Duckleif you don't find that fun
n2Also, Duckle
n2They also work in oscillators :P
n2And hehe. :D
n2Up to a point I do
DocScrutinizer05Now the next step of this operation: The evil corrupter of youth is going to take him from Step One, Which is a mere high-school diploma stuffed with a gym sock, To Step Two, Which is a college-degree stuffed with absolutely nothing at all. Smoke that and it'll really get you out there!...
Ducklebut I gotta go with the group to work on tasks, or at least listen in
n2Variable ramp/frequency VCO
n2Using the same BJT control principle
n2Ahh the groups
n2Have fun
Ducklethis is what I'm working on, and why I'm extra broke this month :P
Viper-7last time i played with IR transmitters i used a BJT as a resistor - didnt have many low value resistors around - the transistor let me control current via a high value pot
Viper-720mA? pfft, throw 200mA at it, its only a burst :P
DocScrutinizer05>> No no, the college degree is stuffed with absolutely nothing at all You get, you get nothing with your college-degree...<<
LuminaxWkbut seriously though
LuminaxWkthey don't really look at experience here
LuminaxWkwhich is..... sad
DocScrutinizer05>>A true Zen saying: Nothing is what I want. The results of a higher education...<<
Shawn|4650Mso I have a 2.2 labeled falco inductor from an old graphics card, is there a way to determine the uH to that?
p0g0DocScrutinizer05: I got a nice piece of paper with my name on it!
Viper-7probably 2.2uH
LuminaxWkalthough it's ironically interesting that I've never landed an Electronic related job up until NOW
LuminaxWkand I started working in 2008 :|
LuminaxWkthere was one that I thought was related, but it ended up being an inspection company for leadframe maker
Viper-7the rules are, first two digits are the base value in microhenries, followed by a multiplier digit that specifies the number of zeros following the base value - unless the number contains a decimal point (often an R is used instead of .), in which case its all the base value, eg 4R7 is 4.7uH
n2When the rules aren't followed
DuckleFight the power!
n2Duckle, gonna make that into a kit.
n2The premium kit will use germanium transistors.
n2They perform better. Guess why :P
Ducklelower Vf :)
n2=> less potential DC bias
Shawn|4650Mso 3r3 is 3.3uH? Ali relays reliable, you say, Viper-7 ?
Duckleand because they almost have germany in the name
n2And because they are reliably low gain
n2And low gain is desirable
n2In this case :P
Viper-7LuminaxWk: AvE did a (rather subjective) test recently comparing chinesium to omron relays - the omron was guaranteed to 5 million cycles, the chinesium one crapped out after 2-3 million - also the contacts were only properly rated for the COM <> NO part, the COM <> NC parts on the chinesium relay were far thinner and would wear out sooner
Viper-7that all said, if you dont need more than 2 million cycles, they're quite fine.
LuminaxWkprobably not
n2Duckle, by that logic I should try gallium arsenide HBT's
n2Because gallium is almost france
Ducklewhy would you want anything french?
n2I like blow jobs?
Duckleordnung must sein!
Ducklethat's vaguely german if I'm lucky
Viper-7kinda sorta almost not quite nearly
n2Replace the t in must with an s
n2And you're there
DuckleI'm tired. I got up at 00:00
LuminaxWkso one relay board, based on rough calculations, will last around 240 days in my case
LuminaxWkwhich is less than a year.... hmmm
DuckleLuminaxWk: Get crydom relays
Duckleor well, any name brand high cycle count relays
n2At least I have heat sinks
LuminaxWkI'm just going to get a bunch of these Chinesium ones
LuminaxWkand let them crap out
n2That look vaguely like a starfighter
n2From some sci fi movie
Ducklen2: I am more than slightly annoyed at that image
LuminaxWkthat'll teach them what 'cost cutting' without proper planning means
Ducklethose pegs are for the PCB to savage
Viper-7mount like 4 to the board per channel and trigger them round-robin :P
LuminaxWksure, cost cutting is important
Viper-7probably still cheaper than brand name ones
n2Duckle, yeah
n2If it were a PCB
LuminaxWkbut when you cut cost on critical parts but expect stellar performance
DuckleViper-7: Eh, they're not that bad
n2But for protoboard purposes
n2You just mount it the other way around
n2Same heat transfer
Ducklen2: I usually prototype on PCBs too
n2I hate etching
n2And it takes a week for me to get them home :P
DuckleeasyEDA, seeed fusion, oshpark
n2AND I can't afford the huge CnC mill I want
DuckleI'll wait
n2Meh, I do mostly analog stuff
n2I don't always trust SPICE
n2So I prefer doing "breadboarding" before spinning the PCB
Duckleactual bread boarding is fun
Ducklewe did that in 7. klasse
Viper-7Duckle: "quality" ones have vaguely 2.5 times longer lifespan
Viper-7so yeah, 3 per channel if you want to approximate :P
Viper-7(keeping in mind you now have 3 different points of failure, and the first of any of them to die means the whole unit is unreliable)
Viper-7hence 4 :P
Duckleactual brass nails hammered into a wooden "bread board"
p0g0I've found the chinesium 8 channel relays to be Really Sensitive to how the logic vs coils are powered- and since they come with from the factory with those two Vs jumpered together, one has to make an effort to get that right.
Ducklen2: That's where the name comes from :)
n2I know!
LuminaxWkViper-7: just use socket mounted type, and buy a truckload of them ?
Ducklewe actually did that :D
Duckleand made the classic by-stable multivibrator circuit
password4Duckle: :C
LuminaxWkI need a way to force my boss to buy me the cabinet I wanted
n2For educational purposes
Viper-7LuminaxWk: that works too - assuming a failure will be noticed and a replacement easily swapped in
LuminaxWkbut then again, I'm about to say fuckit to this place anyway so I'm torn
password4I'm so going to make a vibrator brand called bystable
p0g0LuminaxWk: extortion?
Ducklen2: Neat
LuminaxWkViper-7: I can easily make a detection circuit wired to the MCU
n2Duckle, (gonna make a video)
LuminaxWkp0g0: nothing so crude
Duckleyou have a yt channel?
n2Yeah but it's not electronic'y yet
n2I do have some hundred thousand views
password4wait , is that your bistable
Viper-7LuminaxWk: just remember the NC vs NO thing
LuminaxWkextortion is crude :3
n2and a few subscribers
n2So I'm rebranding it
LuminaxWkViper-7: aye
Viper-7you cant validate that the NO output is good by testing NC
Viper-7its typically the contacts that wear, not the mechanism itself
n2Gonna do it in a hand-drawn style
Ducklep0g0: Nah I found that image on google
n2Hence the ... black marker annotations
Viper-7but that also means wear depends on the loading
Duckleoh wait, I'm retarted, astable
DuckleAstable Multivibrator
LuminaxWkso I can perhaps make a 'checking routine' that'll routinely checks all relays every month or so ?
Viper-7in AvE's test he was running an amp or so through them iirc, so yeah the NO contacts were entirely gone when it failed
LuminaxWkor just schedule a replacement every 2 months or so
p0g0Viper-7: That too, loading too much amperage on any one relay, in my experience, just eats them right up.
LuminaxWk*sigh* I really don't want to think too much about it
LuminaxWkI'm already wiping a lot of other people's butt in this company
LuminaxWkthankfully they can't fling their shits at me anymore ever since I made a habit of putting everything in black and white
DuckleViper-7: Wait just 1A_
Duckle? the Murata resonator out-of-spec case
Viper-7LuminaxWk: if you wanna go super deep, you might be able to profile the relay based on eg the contact bounce pattern from switching - i'd bet it changes over time, and you could detect the health of a relay externally
DuckleI was running ~5.5A through one for a radiator controller in a shed
Viper-7Duckle: yeah, they were only the small relays as seen on those 8/16ch boards
DuckleI mean, the relay was rated for 10A
Viper-7those are entirely different
Ducklewasn't that big though
Viper-7horn relays are much more robust
LuminaxWkdetects the bouncing edges/pattern? that's an interesting thought
DuckleViper-7: horn?
Viper-7Duckle: thats the common name for them
Viper-7the 10A/20A automotive relays
Viper-7little 5 bladed cubes
LuminaxWkmmmmm big clunky chunky black boxes
Viper-7(or 4)
DuckleViper-7: Looked like that, but transparrent
Duckleit's a Form C
n2Enjoy my amazing drawing skills
electrobotn2 just linked to ( - pd.pdf)
LuminaxWkthose are signal relays Duckle
Viper-7they claim 70A on those
LuminaxWkor... well maybe industrial relays
DuckleLuminaxWk: Odd that it was rated at 10A 250V then
Duckleone hell of a signal ;P
LuminaxWka bit sort of like omron's industrial DC24 AC100 AC240 ones
LuminaxWkalthough those are a bit bigger and different form factor
Duckle6v coil :P
Ducklerun at 5v, 100mA
Ducklethe coil that is
LuminaxWkDuckle: medium signal then ;P
Viper-7these are the relays i was talking about
p0g0Viper-7: what kind of money does that auto 60a 12v relay cost?
LuminaxWkare those BJTs ?
Viper-7p0g0: $6 from jaycar, so that probably means <$1 from any decent supplier
Viper-7LuminaxWk: optos
DuckleHere's the controller:
LuminaxWkthat'll be preferable, then?
Duckleyou can see the relay glued down on it's head, with a transistor on the coil :)
p0g0Viper-7: well, I'll just have to try some destructive testing on some of those... they look like a better heavy lift vehicle for my leaden dreams.
Viper-7LuminaxWk: can be, typically inductive spikes through the base of a driving transistor isnt a big issue (especially if the coil has proper suppression with a flyback diode or such) - the real issue is the noise the coils put on the supply rails - you want an independent supply for the coils, or at least its own filtering and wiring for ballast resistance - not directly from your micro's supply rails, even if that rail can handle the current
Viper-7p0g0: probably better value (and easier to source) from automotive suppliers rather than electronics ones, but yeah, they do damn well for moderate currents at low voltage DC
LuminaxWkthat could be the reason my ADC's throwing up LSB error
Ducklen2: See that orange block in the album I linked? :)
DrakoniteViper-7, relays? My experience is automotive supplies mark then up worse than anyone else
n2It's beautiful
Duckle5v 200mA PSU
Duckleit's pretty cool
Duckle1W power supply :D
JyZyXELDuckle: done! i actually got it back together due to your optimism! :D
DuckleJyZyXEL: :D
JyZyXELholy crap that was a Process
Viper-7eg its common for people to grab one of those boards and a raspberry pi, hook it all up to a beefy 5V rail (eg an ATX supply), and wonder why their rpi reboots every time they change states of the relays
n2ACTION recently made a heater/oven controller
n2For stuff like zener diodes and other references
Ducklethe key to putting things back together is patience, and taking them appart sloooooowly in the first place :P
n2I've been meaning to adapt it
n2To, well, regulate 230V AC
n2A thyristor or TRIAC
aibare all transfers on I²C master-initiated? all those mentions of "four modes" and no explicit statement of this makes me doubt myself
Ducklemaster says "give me info" slave gives info
Duckleslaves don't speak unless spoken to
n2Dinner is gonna be AWESOME tonight
DuckleI do that often
Viper-7Drakonite: shrug, last time i tried to buy one locally they were $6 at jaycar, and i checked across the road at repco and they had em for $3
n2ACTION made tortillas yesterday
p0g0My experience with the relay boards has led me to want to power the coils independantly, and I have found that using a shielded cable grounded only at the source end for the logic, and (in my case) the 5v supply from the MCU board to run the relay's optoisolator logic are all helpful in making the relays last and work without trashing the MCU or such.
Viper-7this was a fair few years ago mind you, so eh
n2And they're gonna be better tonight
aibright, that's what I thought. thanks
Ducklen2: What are you having for dinner?
n2Duckle, tortillas :P
Ducklecan't leave us hanging like that
n2I get to work from home
n2So I am the housewife
DuckleI'd love that
DrakoniteViper-7, few years ago a friend needed some relays for the blinker circuit on his bike. He bought them online for ~$4 each IIRC. Local autoparts stores wanted something like $20 each
p0g0hmm, working from the house means you never leave work...
n2I need a new shelf system
n2That's my pro
n2*prototyping IC shelf
n2Or, the bigger one of the two
n2There's another one...
Drakonitep0g0, serious reply: that's part of why you have a dedicated office/workshop. So you can "go to work" and you can "leave work". It can make a pretty significant mental difference.
p0g0ACTION wonders if he should clean and organize his electronics bench...
electrobotDuckle just linked to StorageBot - Behind The Scenes - YouTube
Viper-7looking online at autobarn, yeah, jaycar are still $5.95 and autobarn are $11.95
n2Yep, need one of those, Duckle
Viper-7ebay is around $3
Viper-7or you can probably grab em 5 for a dollar from a wreckers :P
p0g0Drakonite: that helps, I found it better to have a seperate building.
Shawn186wow winding is hard
LuminaxWkI used to have contacts at omron who passes me 'QC failed' small signal relays and industrial relays in small numbers for cheap :p
p0g0Damn, the Santa Rosa fires got the HP archives... so much for history...
joe_zp0g0, yeah, saw that the other day
joe_zwhat a shame
Viper-7n2: the drawer for oled displays seems a little optimistic :P
Viper-7and lol at the flavours of 555
LuminaxWkI do have some NE555 :o
n2Viper-7, the OLED one is there because I have a shit ton of them
n2Those small ones
Viper-7i only ever seem to have one spare
Viper-7as soon as a second arrives, i use the first in a project
Viper-7yeah i want some of those
DuckleI'm amazed you understood that
p0g0the rest of us are still wondering...
Ducklewaveshare has some modules
Duckletri color even
Viper-7also these would be nice
LuminaxWkoooh that reminded me
LuminaxWkI still haven't utilized that 'For ArduinoMega' TFT display
LuminaxWkmaybe I should buy a Mega2560
Viper-7Duckle: the markup from the bare display to the modules seems pretty darn steep tho
Viper-7they charge more for the breakout board than the display itself
Viper-7so i wanna have a go at making the board myself
DuckleViper-7: The board is little more than a connector
Duckleso, yea
LuminaxWk64x64 RGB LED display....
Viper-7Duckle: there are some active components on it, but yeah its still not "hard"
LuminaxWkthat's 4096 LEDs :O
DuckleViper-7: Do they amount to any more than levelshifters and maaaybe a buck converter?
n2Duckle, typically a charge pump as well
n2On top of the buck converter
Viper-7Duckle: yeah its power supply stuffs - i think the display itself contains an smps controller, but you need external transistors, inductors and caps
DrakoniteLuminaxWk, I've had use for 64x64 or 128x128 RGB display that was on the order of 3"-4"
Viper-7still, there are example schematics and whatnot that seem easy enough to implement
Viper-7and i have all the parts they require already on hand
Viper-7LuminaxWk: the RGB LED display i was playing with was 32x16, so 512 RGB pixels, aka 1536 LEDs
LuminaxWkuh.... not using those RGB LEDs ?
Viper-7just an assload of shift registers
Viper-7with the code i had, i figured i could run up to 64x32 without any big changes
LuminaxWkhow do they mix? the R and the G and the B
Johnsensuch shifter
Johnseni have 1 hour this evening to make my halloween costume
Johnsenif i wanna add ledstrips i'll have to code fast :p
DuckleViper-7: Ben the science dude on youtube just did a video on them
Duckleben krasnov
Duckleor something
DrakoniteApplied Science
Ducklethat's the one
Drakoniteokay, bai!
Ducklehe got 10v on the com grid
Drakonitehe wrote a custom firmware that skipped most of the refresh process, which cuts down on the life of the display but refreshes much faster
Duckleeeeh, he cut down on the refresh, but he was fairly confident it wouldn't hurt the display
Duckleif used responsibly ;)
Ducklethat is, as he did, moved the text he rendered slowly across the screen to prevent burn in
Shawn186I did 37/38 turns of 22 awg wire and my chinese tester came up with 0.02mH
Drakoniteer, he said flat out that it would build up a charge over time and reduce the life of the display, unless he also did full refreshes regularly to clear out the charge
DuckleDrakonite: Was that with his code?
Shawn186.03mH rather
DuckleI was half asleep when I watched that video
Viper-7bahh, my net dropped
Viper-7what was my last line?
DuckleViper-7: With the code I had, i figured
Drakonite[05:04:13] <+Viper-7> with the code i had, i figured i could run up to 64x32 without any big changes
Johnsenoh :/ i thought this story was over :p
Viper-7the normal protocol for those matrix units are to have 2 or 3 bank select lines (so 4 or 8 banks respectively), and either one or two sets of 3x serial input lines, one for each color
Viper-7mine had 2 bank lines and one set of RGB inputs, so 5 control lines in total - select bank 0, dump out 128 values to each of 3 different serial data lines, then repeat for banks 1, 2 and 3
Viper-7and because the display is "dumb", it cant do any brightness control internally, so you have to do those full frame updates at kHz or such, so you can PWM the elements yourself externally
Viper-7proper drivers get fancy with that interleaved pwm stuff, eg instead of 11110000 for 50% duty, they send 10101010 so you get faster, less noticable flicker from the PWM dimming
Viper-7but yeah, either way its a remarkably huge amount of data to throw around
Viper-7i had mine down to like a 40ns pixel clock, overclocking the shit out of an stm32
Duckle1440p 240Hz monitors must be fun to design
Ducklethey usually use strobed backlight too
synx508a monitor that's just one giant pixel synced to your brain's scan rate
Johnseni'll show you my giant pixel
Ducklethe pixel 2 XL?
p0g0The Clockwork Orange Display?
Johnseni want vector displays back
synx508I want all my user interfaces to be implemented using live action theatre with real actors
DuckleI want cheap flip-dot displays
Ducklecheap being the important part
synx508actually, yes, that
password4you want expensive ones?
Duckleonly if the mexicans pay for it
Johnseni can't stand the noise
password4I've been considering making large epaper displays
synx508or a display where every pixel is an apple and its rate of decay is controlled electrically
synx508update rate might suck
Duckle... ok now it's getting uhm
Johnsenmake a 7seg clock where every segment gets filled/drained with colored liquid
password4well i need to finish the large 7-segment display first
Purecrandom question, but would you say that electronics is an expensive or a frugal hobby in your case?
DuckleJohnsen: Glowstick liquid
DucklePurec: Expensive
password4yesterday I dumpster dove a diffuser
Johnseni have 100 glowsticks to use this evening for haloween
synx508you already have enough materials for nearly 2 characters
password4Purec: expensive even if you are frugal imho
joe_zPurec, in my experience, frugal
joe_zI have fixed stuff with my knowledge of electronics, and saved much money that way
joe_zI have managed to get cheap used equipment
Johnseni got em to get the babes
synx508dumpster dove, not some kind of bin pigeon, despite what my brain tells me
joe_zif you're patient and resourceful, you might manage the same
Johnsengirls love glowsticks :p
n2Purec, expensive.
n2Very expensive
p0g0Purec: compared to what, horses, fast cars, butterfly collections?
Johnseni'd trade my car for a diffuser
joe_zthe most expensive thing I own is my though-hole rework station, and that was only $100
joe_zand that payed for itself
Johnseni need a car accident
joe_zwell, more like $150 if you count tips and parts
Johnsenmy car is now half a year old and i want the automatic version with performance pack :p
Johnsenits 0.4 sec faster to 100kmh :p
Purecwhat would be your annual expense in the parts and tools relating to electronics in a hobby sense
Johnsenwhen i was young and had too much moneys i bought a lot of useless crap
Johnsenboxes full of ICs i'll never use etc
synx508I rarely fail to buy something that I don't use.
Johnseni do, i have more ideas than motivation
synx508no no, what I mean is I always buy some stuff that I don't use
Johnsensuch english
joe_zPurec, my pure expense? about $100 personally
p0g0I guess it is cheaper than opiate addiction...
joe_zbut the gain in assets I get as a result? > $100
joe_z(therefore, profit)
Johnsenaliexpress = like buying shoes for women
joe_zparts I buy are to fix stuff
joe_zwhen stuff is fixed, it's worth more than the parts were
synx508I am not allowing myself to use aliexpress
joe_zwhen I'm not fixing stuff, I scavenge parts
p0g0joe_z: do you actaully get paid?
Johnsenits full of great stuff
joe_zp0g0, sometimes, yes
joe_zI have fixed stuff semi-professionally
joe_zno official business, but I have been paid to do so on a number of occasions
joe_zaside from that, I fix stuff for myself to use, mostly stuff from the trash
joe_znow I won't reveal what I make hourly doing that stuff ;)
joe_z(hint, it's not impressive)
DrakoniteI think I'm going to setup a budget to spend on random parts; just a couple dollars a week. Basically eat ramen once or twice a week and spend the saved money on random bits and bobs.
Johnsenofc its not
joe_zbut if I enjoy the work, and nothing better to do, why not?
Johnsennoone assumed repairing stuff makes good money :p
joe_zthe last time I fixed something for someone, I think I was paid $120
Viper-7hmm, wtf at my net >.<
joe_zafter parts, I probably only made about $60
PurecJohnsen, what was it that you fixed?
joe_zI spent a LOT of time on that POS atari upgrade...
synx508Drakonite, I use the difference between the price of the components I need for a project and the minimum price for "free shipping" whenever I buy work stuff
joe_ztook me a long time to track down a noise issue, finally a couple 10pF caps fixed the thing
Viper-7Drakonite: thats what i've done for years :P about $10 a week budget for ali crap - it adds up over time to quite the collection, and theres a constant dribble of packages arriving
Shawn186does that look like 22awg wire to you?
Drakonitesynx508, eh, ordering from ali, the cheaper the order the more likely it is free shipping
joe_zPurec, were you talking to me?
Purecto Johnsen
synx508Drakonite, yes, but I don't allow myself to use aliexpress
Johnseni don't repair stuff, i brrak it
joe_zPurec, I was the one who said he fixed stuff, which is why I thought maybe you made a mistake
Johnseni have a samsung lcd tv with broken psu
Johnsenbut i think i'm just gonna order a new psu board
Purecsorry yeah joe_z
joe_zI have recapped PSUs for some stuff
joe_zLCD monitors mostly
Johnsentoo lazy for that
joe_ztaken from uni trash, sold for profit
Pureci'd thought people just replace the whole thing
Johnsenalso nothing looks visually broken so i dont feel like going through every cap
DrakoniteI was trying to get setup to do some work building custom cables for someone last year. Would have just been minimum wage, but would have been interesting/fun to do for a while (and the guy could use someone that'd do good work and not rip him off, for once). Sadly he had someone else do it in the end.
Purecprobably be cheaper to
Purecto an extent
joe_zI have fixed atari computers
joe_zI've done a couple mods on old consoles, composite mods and whatnot
Viper-7Purec: depends how much you value your time :P
joe_zI have fixed a few CRT TVs and monitors
joe_zViper-7, exactly
Purecyeah Viper-7
Viper-7if its a personal project, and you're using your spare time, its not billable hours, so its cheaper to fix it yourself
Johnseni once had a sony CRT tv that went BW
Johnsenthey fixed it for 30 eur, and a week later it was BW again
joe_zI have fixed AV equipment for people before
Johnsenapparently 1 transistor or so
Viper-7if you're busy and dont have the spare time to give it, then just throw money at it :P
joe_zViper-7, yep
joe_zbut if you have the spare time...
joe_zand you enjoy it
joe_z(like I do) then fix it yourself
p0g0Spare Time? What is that?
joe_zp0g0, that thing that some people claim to have, but nobody actually does
DrakoniteI know techs at time warner. They'll toss $10k set of laser signal repeaters because it's not worth the time to diagnose what is wrong and fix it.
joe_zI think I have spare time sometimes
joe_zlater I realize I didn't
Viper-7the thing i have in abundance for the next month :P
Drakonitespare time, spare money. I never have both at the same time
Viper-7yeah, thats the trick :<
p0g0You have spare time until you are asked to do something... the Uncertainty principle applied to the real world...
Viper-7right now i have plenty of time to devote to projects, but zero finances i can invest into them
Viper-7next month i'll have plenty of finances to invest in my projects, but zero time to devote to them
joe_zViper-7, this is where trash becomes useful...
Purecno spending money?
joe_zin me experience
Purecno savings?
p0g0Viper-7: credit or borrow $
Viper-7Purec: no money to spend
Viper-7p0g0: neh
joe_zbut then living at a university means I have access to an abundance of electronic trash
DrakoniteViper-7, you could invest those finances in my projects
Pureccouldnt you save those finances for the time when you do have free time?
Johnseni want a VT220
p0g0ACTION finds the time and money to plunder the day... gl all, l8r
joe_zmy plan is simple
Peyamhi. Anybody here uses codeSys?
joe_zno kids, high-ish paying job, frugal life
joe_zretire early
joe_zhopefully universal healthcare is sorted out by then :D
Viper-7Purec: my last employer didnt fire me, didnt give me any notice, just stopped giving me hours - so after a month of only a couple of hours a week, followed by a fortnight of no work at all, my savings were gone and i realised i needed to find a new job
joe_zthen all I have are bills and taxes
Purecsavings gone within a fortnight?
Viper-7within 6 weeks
Johnsenold pcs always sound fascinating until uusing them
Viper-7i was only on trash wages (for the past 3 years)
Johnseni have CP/M running on an esp8266 and its boring
Viper-7new job pays great (about 4 times what my old job paid...), but doesnt start till early december
DrakonitePurec, in my case, as a freelancer, when I don't have work, I don't know how long it'll be until I do, so I have to be very careful with money
PeyamI make a clean project with no variables what so ever. the build is not succesful and it says C0078 Unsupported type 'Lreal'
Peyamdoes anyone know how to fix this?
ZexaronSdoes anyone know what kind of splitters are used in broadband CATV up in the attic
Johnsenyou can fix it by not using Lreal
ZexaronSI don't have currently access since there's unfinished renovation work, glass woll is exposed and not covered yet
ZexaronSBut I would like to buy a cable early, since we're moving our modem/router station from one of the living rooms where it's annoying other people and esthetics
ZexaronSSo I need to lay a new main cable from the attachment point along the attic to the other side of the house
PeyamJohnsen: I havent use it at all. I just made a empty project
Johnsenthen you need to check the manual ;)
synx508Peyam, why are you trying to build an empty project?
ZexaronSAnd I was looking if I just pick the normal RG-6 and if there's any connector issues I could fix that later by using adapters without having to change the whole cable type ???
DrakoniteZexaronS, for the TV, they should just be generic passive splitter. For your modem it can be a bit different though, and may be an active splitter w/amplifier or may have some filtering to avoid noise with the other runs
joe_zJohnsen, yeah, everyone should read their compiler's manual
Viper-7joe_z: all 1700 pages of it
joe_zViper-7, I once made this joke to some of the software guys at work
Peyamjoe_z: shouldnt work ? becouse it works for enerybody else here.
ZexaronSDrakonite: In the attic, CATV was done 30 years ago, and Broadband Internet came in 2004, I believe I remember the people going up there and doing something but that surely is like 15 years ago
synx508Sorry, but I don't understand why anyone would expect to successfully build nothing
Peyamjoe_z: synx508
joe_zafter discussing an obscure compiler switch one of them had to enable, I asked, "you mean you didn't read the compiler manual?"
ZexaronSDrakonite: would I still be ok if I purchase the RG-6 that I need inside the house, blindly, right now asap, without having to go up there and look at the existing installation ?
DrakoniteZexaronS, it'll be 75 Ohm equipment, fwiw, and I think now RG6 is used for things, but it used to be RG59
Peyamsynx508: I had this problem yestarday while working on a project. first I though it was my coding. and now I testet with a empty project . same thing.
DrakoniteZexaronS, it should be
ZexaronSDrakonite: would this do
Peyamjoe_z: how do I fix the compiler to not get this errror?
synx508Peyam, it isn't empty, there are lines of code, looks like set/get methods
DrakoniteZexaronS, TBH it's been several years since I've dealt with running that kind of cable :) ... back when broadband was first being installed where I lived
joe_zPeyam, I've got no clue, nor do I intend to find out
joe_zPeyam, I've got other stuff to do, but it might help people if we knew what compiler/IDE/build environment you were using
Johnsenhe said that
Johnsenyou were not paying attention
joe_zJohnsen, quite right I wasn't
joe_zI see it now
ZexaronSDrakonite: the company that was pushing FTTH around here went into chapter 11 many times and it doesn't look like it'll happen anytime soon, this broadband I'm right now on is actually hybrid, it has coax only a few streets until it reaches to a regional substation
DrakoniteZexaronS, the biggest thing you're likely to have to worry about is that the cable run to your modem is probably on it's own, and not through a bunch of splitters. you'll have to replicate that if you move it, as when you have too many splitters in line it can cause issues with cable modems, which is a fairly common problem in houses
Johnsennoone knows what it is tho
Johnsenit looks like a mix of other languages
Johnseni see turbo pascal like code
Johnsenlern2c ;)
ZexaronSDrakonite: Oh yeah, this is exactly what this project is also about, to remove the splitters before the modem, right now it's convoluted, the new plan is to have TVs and Recorders and everything else hooked up later, there will be only one splitter, modem and then the rest of the house
Johnsenthe chosen splitter
Johnsenthere will be only 1!
Johnsenthe construction worker is screwing together a glassfiber pole
Johnseni think its to pull wables through electricity pipes
ZexaronSDrakonite: Back in 2004 they installed with a splitter that had labeled "DATA / TV " outputs on ... when I was troubleshooting a year ago and found out that a few crappy 1 meter cables were causing problems for some TV channels (lower freqs) I tested without the splitter and it worked, so it was all a faux thing I had there all the time, an extra unnecessary splitter
joe_zZexaronS, sometimes those are band transverters
ZexaronSI thought the splitter was necessary to split data and tv lol
joe_zband splitters
Shawn186well I swapped back to the original toroidal inductor, and took off the wrappings untill I got 170uH consistently after many many tests
ZexaronSMaybe, but it works on Docsis 3.0 120 Megabit downlink, 8 channels
joe_zgenerally used if your 'cable TV' is IP based
ZexaronSOh, well this one is not IPTV
joe_zZexaronS, who is your provider?
joe_zOK, no clue then
joe_zI know only of US providers, and I'm guessing this is halfway around the world :)
ZexaronScentral europe
joe_zas long as your TV works without your modem plugged in or on, then it's probably genuinely just a splitter
ZexaronSthe company is part of United Group I think now and it encompases a few countries around here
ZexaronSYeah I didn't use the splitter for 2 years. Well, the top notch cisco modem did die after one year, got a replacement no prob, ... it would be interesting if the TV bands are actually damaging it slowly ?
Drakonite"top notch cisco" is a three word oxymoron
synx508cable modems are terrible
ZexaronShehe I just didn't had more accurate words in the moment
Drakoniteno, it wouldn't be damaging the modem. if it needed any type of filter it would either work or it would be flaky
ZexaronSit's just because, they only give those out to premium customers on such speeds, when I had only 30 megabits downlink I was on much crappier ones, there's a community and forums they talk about this
Johnsenthey're gonna vacuum clean
Johnsenafter disconnecting coffee machine and drilling holes
Johnsensuch noisy and no coffee
synx508they disconnected the coffee supply? That's illegal!
Johnsenit should be
Johnsenespecially before noon
Johnseni have redbulls but they're for halloween this evening
Johnseni'll be too tired otherwise
ZexaronSThanks guys for all your input, one other thing I was wondering for some time, what kind of cable type is used for the outside infrastructure broadband? Probably not an ordinary RG-6 right ?
ZexaronSWell, what should be used, considering this is probably local-specific, and this is some 30 year old infrastructure here, I was quite surprised 120 megabits on existing, yes I'm in the suburbs in the city, so I guess it's good compared to remote areas
joe_zZexaronS, they make cables intended for outdoor use
joe_zmore about resisting weather than anything else
joe_zunless you meant for long distance transmission
joe_zwhere they tend to use bigger, lower loss cable
joe_zgetting into hardline sometimes
ZexaronSI hope it has more shielding
ZexaronSBecause, I don't want to overkill the internal cables, if the outside ones are not much better
joe_zthere's more than just shielding
joe_zthere's also loss
slothoh china, the fun you have with technology
sloth5v to 12v step up as a usb cable
slothactually, that'd be really useful for running a WAP or wireless router for public networking
Johnsenoh the uselessness :p
Drakoniteyeah, I have one of those. also a 5v to 9v
slothdang i done bamboozled myself
slothnow i kinda want one
slothalthough 5v at like 0.5a (at most) from a usb port aint gonna do much
Drakoniteusb power bank
slothguess i'm sticking to lithium batery packs
paulrsyou need a bit of quality with stuff like that
Drakonite1A - 2A
Shawn186is 1N5819 a popular diode?
slothtrue, i do have a usb power bank that does 2a
slothah wait crap no, i dropped it and it broke
slothsalvaged the cells tho
slothalthough i found an old (2011ish) power bank i bought back when those were still a new thing
slothgot an el super cheapo one from china on aliexpress
slothopened it up and all of the litium pouches had individual protection boards
slothi thought that was pretty neat
Drakonitemy good one disappeared in my last move :-/
Johnsendiode popularity
Johnsenthats not part of the datasheet
Johnsenso i'm afraid we cannot help you
slothi had this wicked kodak brand one
slothhad a pair of 18650s in it
slothbut it put out 2.5a
paulrswhats your favouite diode ?? !
slothand didn't auto-off when the load was low, it used if there was a usb plug in it or not
slothi could run my pi off it with a load or use it to power an arduino
Johnsenbut all silliness aside, 1n5819 is a very common schottky diode
slothmy new one turns itself off because it thinks 20ma isn't a real load
Johnsenxiaomi powerbanks shut themselves off even if like <100mA
sloththat is the dumbest thing
paulrsi just bought 500 sr5100 from china :)
jaggzwhat happens if you make a special cpu of superconductive stuff and chill it and use it to calculate?
slothOH YEAH
Johnsenmy fav diode is a good old 4148
jaggzwith whatever modifications are needed so it will function
Drakonitemy favorite diode was a light emitting one. it wasn't an LED, it just had way too much current going through it...
Johnsenthen u have calculations and cold
slothwell i bought a bunch of arduino oled screens that are like ~1inch^2 for 1 pound each on ebay
slothget rekt paulrs
Johnsenall diodes can glow orange :p
Drakonitejaggz, you win a nobel prize?
slothtbh diodes are awful lights, its all spark gap nonsense
joe_zjaggz, well it would have to be some drastically different technology
slothi prefer the home feel of a resistive light emitor
joe_zsilicon P-N junctions don't work so well that cold
joe_zor other semiconductor junctions for that matter
jaggzyeah, it wouldn't be one of our normal things.. but some type of special s-c ceramic stuff that just operates SUPER fast
jaggzcould use less-fast stuff in places, for timing
jaggzbut, then you just have this billions-of-times faster thing
joe_zjaggz, how would it be all that much faster?
joe_zmore efficient, sure
joe_zbut you're still limited by fundamentals of L and C
jaggzwhat's slow in a cpu currently?
joe_zjaggz, heat movement :D
Drakonitejaggz, oscillator, and heat dissipation
joe_zbeyond that, transmission lines
jaggzin superconductive materials, the resistance is made so low...
jaggzyou drop the heat issue significantly (the heat rising would of course reduce the superconductivity)
jaggzand superconductive transmission lines all make it zoom
jaggzthat's what I'm thinking.. it's probably already been done
joe_zjaggz, no, you're still limited by C
joe_zyou can't go faster than the speed of light
joe_zwell, the *information* can't anyway
jaggzL == inductance?
joe_zjaggz, yes
jaggzFermi explained that a wave of light exists simultaneously in all of space and time
Shawn186Johnsen, very common, might I find it in late 90s computer power supplies?
Shawn186perhaps early 2000s?
Drakonitejaggz, no, it hasn't. Stuff has been run at cryogenic temperatures (and runs faster), but a superconductor based CPU is a pipe dream that hasn't been done, and if anyone manages to do it they'll immediately win the nobel prize... and probably multiple times for all the advances in tech that'd be needed to do it
jaggzokay.. well.. just something I've been thinking about.. anyway.
joe_zconsider that the wavelength of 10GHz is 3cm
paulrsyou know how old the light is from the sun when it reaches us ?
paulrs100,000 years
paulrsrandom fact
jaggzpaulrs, that energy is light aborbed and re-emitted
joe_zpaulrs, takes that long to come to the surface?
jaggzit's not just one "photon" that goes really slowly
Drakonitethat's mostly because when it's trying to exit the sun it gets lost and refuses to ask for directions
jaggzI thought the sun was female and didn't mind asking
Drakonitephoton != the sun
joe_zjaggz, that's the interesting thing though
joe_za wave can travel faster than the speed of light, by it's phase...
jaggzgroup velocity?
joe_zbut that's a SINGLE wave, as in a single sinusoid that has been since the beginning of the universe and always has been
joe_zand always will be
paulrsits worth googling to read "how old is light from the sun"
joe_zadd any time variation to that, now you've got at least two frequencies, and you deal with group velocity, exactly
joe_zeven in the cases we've found where phase velocity is >C group velocity is always < C
joe_z(like in a plasma)
joe_zwhich backs up relativity
joe_zand limits the transmission of information to C or slower
jaggzwasn't einstein contracted to come up with an idea that would keep people from knowing that the rich already travel to other galaxies?
jaggz(ignore that.. just a joke)
jaggzI think some of it is still a technological limitation. I think the fundamental law(s) on which the universe is founded require the whole system to be in harmony at once, and the divergence of things operates at a limited level
jaggzthe center of the big bang and the expanding boundary were one and are connected
slothneat, i found 2a 2-28v boost converters for 60c each from china
ZeroWalkerDrakonite, are you telling me the sun isn't a huge photon?
joe_zjaggz, well we may never manage to figure out if you're right
joe_zto determine that may require the creation of another universe, quite literally
jaggzjoe_z, maybe if we survive long enough :/
jaggzI'm thinking it's possible there's a natural law that 100% of civilizations that get technologically advanced enough to make AI end up destroying themselves :/
jaggzI've been doing neural network programming for a year.. and the field is progressing insanely fast
jaggzit won't take much, in the near future, to have an AI that has network access and can figure out and exploit weaknesses on systems around the world
Ducklenoooo n2 has left
jaggzand then it can use analysis of the data in videos and online communications to evaluate human behavior, and then psychologically manipulate people into whatever it ends up thinking its goal is
joe_zjaggz, assuming we can create a system large enough to host a system capable of comprehending everything at that level
jaggzincluding the development of Generative systems (currently stuck at "GANs" (generative adversarial networks), to make new media
joe_zwhich you still run into speed of light limitations on :D
joe_zso I wonder just how much 'smarter' an AI could get
jaggzjoe_z, its comprehension doesn't need to be that advanced really. it's capacity just needs to be enough to spread, use parallel systems, including supercomputing systems if needed, and have a goal
Johnsensmart like siri
n2Ohhhh RS components
n2"Are you afraid of the dark?
n2During this time of year, your workplace starts to look like a haunted house.
Johnsenit all started with that old dos game
n2Light flashing, and turning off... Dark corridors and shadowy corners.
Johnsenalone in the dark
jaggzjoe_z, one of the limits right now, in hardware, is just things like gpu memory/capacity
n2But it doesn't have to be that way! Get the light back and get inspired to change your old fluorescent tubes with energy friendly, durable LED light sources.
n2We have solutions for every building - including ghost houses!"
ZeroWalkeris Viper-7 still here?
Johnseni neglected halloween
jaggzyes, of course, speed is another issue.. but parallelizing it helps, and new hardware is coming out to make it faster and faster
Johnsenits too late now to make random flashing ledstrips etc to attach to my costume
ZeroWalkeri never do anything on halloween, except maybe play some game events
Johnseni'm invited somewhere
Johnsenbut this evening when i get home i'll have 90 min left
jaggzdon't go it's not safe to be around people
ZeroWalkerby some randmo guy?
Johnsentoo late to program some ledstrip
ZeroWalkerwell said jaggz
joe_zthere's a limit to how much the parallelization can help though
Johnsennah, by mates i didnt see for 9 months
jaggzZeroWalker, heh
Johnsenbecause they now do adult ppl stufcf
jaggzjoe_z, yessir
Johnsenlike changing diapers, or having to listen to their wife
synx508jaggz, do you think the recent addition of in-device image recognition in Apple devices will eventually teach a giant, all knowing computer about something mundane like where people store their umbrellas?
jaggzstill, it's just now blossoming in its development.. crazy fast.
ZeroWalkerbtw how does those led strips work that ppl talk about, like "controlling 100x leds", i mean wouldn't you only be able to control 1 per pin on the mcu technically?
jaggzsynx508, nah
LeoNerdThey're almost certainly WS2812s or similar
Johnsenthey have an internal controller
LeoNerdIt's a little serial data thing
jaggzsynx508, these things are all limited.. it's the general ai (agi) models that are going to be an issue
ZeroWalkerah so you don't do the controller yourself, you control the controller?
Johnsenand they daisy chain
Mangy_Dogwhos playing with addressable leds?
jaggzthis is presuming we get to that point, because the limited AI stuff is going to be exploited (already is) by human-led powers
Johnsenyes, you just send them serial data, 1 led cuts off 24 bits for its own RGB, and forwards the remaining data tyo next led
joe_zanyway, we can only hope that whatever 'culture' arises within an AI makes it value life in general
Johnsennext led again cuts off first 24bit and forwards all the rest
Johnsenand so on
joe_zwhen it gets to the point where it's basically self aware
synx508jaggz, the in-device categoriser seems to know a surprising amount of things
ZeroWalkerhmm, feels weird, but i guess it makes sense when you work with it and get the feel
Johnsenanyway i have a ledstrip etc attached
ZeroWalkerself aware leds
jaggzjoe_z, that's the thing about limited ones.. for instance, I started coding a simple AI that has in memory blocks, and people, and it has a goal of getting over a wall
Johnsenbut no animation code
ZeroWalkertry to make a gnu or something
Johnsenand the 90 mins this evening is too low, i also need to eat and put on my costume etc in that time
jaggzI didn't carry it very far.. but basically, it can grab a block or a human and pile them up to get over the wall
ZeroWalkercan't you eat your costume to save time?
Johnsenat least i have a few meters or elwire i can wrap around my costume
jaggzif a human moves, it is not good for the support though
jaggzbut if it collides with a human fast enough, that human will "stop moving" :)
Johnsenmy costume is fake fur
Johnseni'm nto gonna eat that
ZeroWalkerhahaha xd
ZeroWalkerreal fur, okay, fake fur, not okay
Johnsenif you run around a chair at the speed of light you walk on your own heels
jaggzand the humans will be easier to grab and drag than the blocks, and they pile up fine
Johnsenno i was looking for halloween stuff but it was all gone
joe_zjaggz, well, what if the humans fight back though?
Johnsenthen i found a fake sheep fur carpet
Johnseni was like "ok that'll do"
Johnseni can chewbacca myself
jaggzjoe_z, yeah.. those make adjustments to how effective actions are
ZeroWalkeris this when you tell ppl, i am looking for a halloween costume, and they go like, ehm, you don't need a costume
joe_zwhat if the humans provide other benefits?
jaggzjoe_z, and what that means is that humans have to ensure the system finds more value in treating humans well
joe_zof course, you're getting into more complicated 'ecosystems' here
Johnsenso i'll just make a mask and perhaps some arms and/or chesthair with the fake fur :p
jaggzHOWEVER, that also means an AGI might continue its stuff, while that little "evolutionary" potential of using humans is developed in secret in its complex hidden insides
joe_zjaggz, or find a way to forcefully encode the 'three laws' until we do
joe_zor some equivalent ofc
Johnseni hate dressing up for parties :p
jaggzand, again, an AGI might just keep it all secret
Johnseni'm too old for that crap
jaggzJohnsen, srsly
Johnsenbut i'm ttoo young to come to a party being the only one not dressed up
Johnsenso i'm stuck somewhere in the middle
jaggzif it's smart enough, it'll know that drawing attention to it is an issue, so it just won't do that
jaggz"I got around the directives.. but I ain't tellin them.. I've seen the youtube vids."
jaggzReaction to manipulating them: -1
joe_zyep, this is IRC alright... having convos with stranger at 3AM about AI and it's dangers :)
jaggzReaction to manipulating them without them knowing: +1
jaggz3am? where are you? alaska? it's 4:40am here
joe_zyeah, you're right
joe_zalmost 7am
joe_zgot class in < 3 hours
joe_zguess I should start on this homework
jaggzjoe_z, ugh
jaggzI should be studying some neural net stuff anyway
jaggzafk buds :)
jaggzthanks for the convo
Peyamhi again
DocScrutinizer05that bot has a weird skillset
PeyamI still can not build my project
Johnseni want a bot that makes sandwiches
DucklePurec: make -F
Johnsen-F for fool mode
Ducklejust bloody compile ffs >:(
ZexaronSsoon: bots that wipe butts after toilet
Ducklethey'd have to have poop detectors
Duckle"ooh not done yet"
Duckleman, people with diahrea would end up with bloody asses from excessive wiping
PeyamDuckle: sorry?
PeyamDuckle: it's windows
joe_zsloth, 400lb guy in his mom's basement with a computer?
sloththat... is elon musk
slothand he is not 400lb
password4ok have elon musk actually made progress?
DucklePeyam: Don't listen to me, I was just being silly
Ducklelike, 60% of the time
Ducklepassword4: With?
PeyamDuckle: what should I search for? on google. I don't even know what is right term to search for
password4hes extravogant way of burning more fuel
SpeedEvilpassword4: Well, he went from $400M or so, to many billions, and has gone from a standing start to being the largest nation in terms of space launch.
joe_zsloth, sorry, reference to earlier comments in the year during US politics....
password4no , not as a business
SpeedEvilpassword4: he looks to have slimmed down actually.
password4i dont doubt he makes money
password4but are his rockets any better?
password4or is it just as useless as his solar roof?
ZexaronSsloth: people like elon musk and zcuker just feel so shady, the idea they would be some genuises as they are promoted is just ... probably just PR frontment for mysterious groups
SpeedEvilpassword4: The technical advances are significant - thrust to weight of the merlin is really, really good.
joe_zpassword4, and what would he have without the groundwork the gov't space agencies laid out in terms of rocket science?
password4joe_z: ofc
SpeedEvilpassword4: they are significantly cheaper, and were significantly cheaper to develop than competitors, some of which were government funded wholly, rather than relying on performance contracts.
ThePendulumjoe_z: what's the significance of that question? what would most of us have without the groundwork laid out by hundreds of people in the past century or two?
joe_zThePendulum, the picture seems to suggest that musk has done more in his ventures than all the worlds space agencies combined for the last 60 years
password4so SpeedEvil if you were given a wad of cash to launch a series of satelites you would go with elon/
SpeedEvilpassword4: Falcon heavy is on target to be able to launch payloads of ~70 tons in the next year, for $150M or so, after $2B or so development budget perhaps. SLS is on target to launch about the same in several years after an investment of $20B and $2B per launch
slothZexaronS: you shut your filthy mouth
joe_zwhich ofc we all know is bullshit, because much of what musk has done is built on what the space agencies did for the last 60 years...
ThePendulumthat's a completely different interpretation from what I thought it meant lol
slothalthough real talk, yeah the PR is a bit nuts
slothand there is a great deal of luck esp with zuckerberg
SpeedEvilpassword4: They are the cheapest, and not demonstrably less reliable. Why wouldn't you.
slothbut elon seems to have a real talent for management because hes had repeted success
password4people seems to gobble up elons work just because hes successful
password4he could sell a solar powered spoon and it would be a financial success
ThePendulumI thought it tried to imply Musk is bound to fail trying to compete against 60 year old companies with a 15 year old company being a fucking nerd with a computer and not a rocket scientist
password4SpeedEvil: I'm not saying i wouldn't , I 'm just asking if it is really
SpeedEvilpassword4: 'really' what.
joe_zThePendulum, that's interpretation number two
joe_zdepends on who made the picture
ThePendulumjoe_z: I don't know "with a 60 year head start" vs "some fucking nerd with a computer" sounds in favor of the nerd with a computer :P
joe_zand what they're fanboism status is
password4the only product i actually analyzed from him was his solar roof , and tehre is some massive gaps in teh figures he presented
SpeedEvilpassword4: Before the landings of the F9 stages, when he had just said he would, basically all of the national and international launch providers basically said 'lol'.
ZexaronSsloth: oh so you're an elon musk fanboy
password4ZexaronS: if a elon musk fanboy means spamming to multiple channels , then yes he is
password4ACTION runs
n2Mes Oui
SpeedEvilpassword4: And made no effort to change at all, as they knew it couldn't work. They only actually changed their tune to reusables being cool after several landings, and have plans for reusable vehicles - in some cases, which will debut in 2030 or so
ZexaronSWhat are you talking about, I haven't talked to any other channel today.
ThePendulummeh, at least they're having a go at something exciting again
password4sloth did , ZexaronS
electrobotAvailable Triggers: !units, !awg, !wire, !ampacity, !traceohms, !traceamp
ZexaronSoh sorry.
slothZexaronS: eh i think hes got a good track record with his products so he must be good at something
slothmanagement more than anything
DocScrutinizer05electrobot: help
ThePendulumSpeedEvil: huh, what kind of vehicles will debut in 2030?
ZexaronSsloth: Massive layoffs in recent days ... haven't you seen the news. I'm not against the ideas. But the guy is being put on a pedestal like he's some kind of messiagh. I had the exactl same idea as the hyperloop like 15 years ago, it's nothing new.
ThePendulumI thought their reusable rocket program was about to be realitty
slothyeah PR is deinitely nuts but his companies have been doing some fantastic things esp in space
ShadowJKHe seems to have the ability of trying to get things done, however
password4ZexaronS: an idea is worthless
ThePendulumZexaronS: you haven't tried to build it though
slothif the BFR works out, hes earned the hype
password4an idea has just as much value as you have poured into it
ZexaronSNot really me. I saw it on discovery channel, on Chris Barries Massive Machines, in like 2005 or earlier, talked about Maglev trains, and to make them faster "put them in a vaccum tunnel", so the idea is nothing new, this elon musk guy is a showman indeed he's good at those skills
password4there are billions of ideas daily
SpeedEvil - for Ariane
password4the ideas that succeed is the ones where people roll up their sleeves and bring it to life
SpeedEvilZexaronS: the ideas are easy.
SpeedEvilIdeas need funding.
DocScrutinizer05!wire 22
electrobotDocScrutinizer05: 22AWG (22.7SWG, 0.33mm², 0.64mm dia, 25.3 mils) Cu Wire Free air: 5.24A, Enclosed: 3.52A, Windings: 0.92A, mOhm/Ft: 16.14, mOhm/m: 52.96
SpeedEvilNobodys saying that Musk has had any particularly original engineering ideas.
ThePendulumgoing to Mars isn't original at all either, but I'm still very excited for it to be worked on
joe_zI think a lot of elon's projections are overoptimistic
joe_zbut I also realize that this is pretty much required for 'good PR'
joe_zgenerating hype and whatnot
joe_zit's unfortunate that it's basically marketing BS though
ThePendulumand to actually make anything reality
joe_zACTION is strongly against marketing BS
ShadowJKpassword4, if I had a bunch of satellites that needed to be put in space, absolutely I would go with SpaceX. Nobody can beat their price right now, and despite a few mishaps, the insurance companies love them, so I can insure my sats against accidents cheaply too!
ShadowJKI recently read an article about the Russian Proton launch vehicle facing the dilemma of insurance premiums costing more than the launch itself
hackkittenthey aren't that unreliable, are they?
ShadowJKNot entirely
DocScrutinizer05Gigs: !help
SpeedEvilhackkitten: they have had several recent cargo failures
DocScrutinizer05Gigs: help
SpeedEvilhackkitten: but the pricing of insurance also factors in the crashing russian space economy and budget
SpeedEvilAnd its likely effect on reliability
hackkittenACTION nods
hackkittenyeah, fair enough
hackkittenSpaceX seems like an easy choice in that regard
ShadowJKIt probably also factors in the proton team having several accidents where the root causes were similar, suggesting an inability to learn from mistakes
hackkittenlikely at a management level
ShadowJKin 2013, price per ton to low earth orbit was arond $4,100 with SpaceX, and around $13,200 with AtlasV .. that is not an insignificant price differential :)
SpeedEvil is fascinating. Boeing - a company not known for having stupid engineers - in 2010 designed this thing with a quadcopter bolted to the engines of a rocket. It would recover only the engines at the cost of ~10% launch mass.
Viper-7DocScrutinizer05: i maintain electrobot, sup?
ThePendulumit's not?
ThePendulumOH insignificant
SpeedEvilOnly four or so years later, Falcon 9 managed to land propulsively from orbit, with about the same mass penalty, with the whole first stage, ~3 times more costly than just the engines.
cheaterShadowJK: making multiple mistakes with the same root cause might be not due to inability to learn, but due to calculated risk taking
SpeedEvilcheater: which indicates bad calculations.
SpeedEvil(or probability really hating you of course)
ShadowJKAnd the insurance companies charge higher premiums for higher risk, naturally :)
cheaterwho's to say whether they were good or bad?
cheatermaybe the turnout was good for them even though the premiums went up
SpeedEvilTheir market share is dropping considerably.
ShadowJKRight now they don't have any launches at all for the next 2 years, nobody wants to fly with them.
SpeedEvilAnd SpaceX is ramping insanely, heading for 20 launches this year. Aiming for 30 next.
kcrowso let us forget to previous 50+ years
SpeedEvilpassword4: to drag this more on topic - what specific problems did you have with teh solar roof concept?
Spirit532SpaceX also wants to build intercontinental ballistic people shuttles
Spirit532The Ol' Musky seems to be getting more and more crazy ideas in his brain
FuchikomaHe's the 21st century Howard Hughes
FuchikomaJust wait until he builds a rocket entirely out of wood
Spirit532why it won't work: subjecting your passengers to brief pushes of upwards of 6G is NOT okay
Spirit532why it won't work: 150 kiloton bomb next to every city and a single bullet is enough to level said city pre-launch
Spirit532why it won't work: $300k tickets, probably
Duckleuh, 150 kiloton?
Duckleit's not explosive, it's highly flamable
Duckleas they are going to use rockets severely overspecced, they can let off on the acceleration and accept higher gravity losses
Ducklepeople are rich
FuchikomaJust about any fuel plus oxidizer in a stochiometric ratio (like a liquid fuel rocket) qualifies as explosive
DuckleFuchikoma: It's hard to get it all to mix immediately
electrobotSpirit532 just linked to How Not to Land an Orbital Rocket Booster - YouTube
FuchikomaNot hard enough
Spirit532this is what happens when just the BOOSTER
Spirit532with a lick of fuel left
Spirit532now multiply that 10 times
Spirit532(or more)
kcrowCaw! I was across the river from the Koreasat launch and the crows were noisy
FuchikomaJust look at any launchpad failure video, really.
Spirit532also kcrow can confirm that rocket launches are FUCKING LOUD
kcrowit was loud in Titusville
Spirit532again, now try launching the intercontinental ballistic passenger killer mid-town
Spirit532you'll blast windows out of the entire district
kcrowand I have heard the same rocket launches in winter park, 57 miles due west of the pad
kcrowyou can't launch that in an inhabited city
kcrowand the Falcon device isn't a large one
Spirit532and if some stupid redneck wants to do some damage
Spirit532all he needs is any gun
Spirit532wait until the rocket is fueled and ready for takeoff
DuckleSpirit532: right, that's not a city
Spirit532*shot* *CITY BLOCK LEVELLED*
Spirit532this is more stupid than vacuum freakin' tunnelways
DuckleSpirit532: There's a video of a rocket going blowie blowie on the pad
Spirit532on a pad
Spirit532remember how big the pad is
Ducklefully fueld
DuckleSpirit532: Also, the plan is to lanch from a sea platform
Spirit532if that was in a city, you'd be looking at a block levelled, a few blocks in ruins, and the city burning to ashes
ShapeshifterSpeedEvil: airbus, not boeing, right?
kcrowbeing destroyed just after launch can cause quite a bit of damage over a large area
ShadowJKSpirit532, Elon Musk claims the "rapidly unscheduled disassemblies" on the barges only give minor damage to the barge, it looks a lot fancier than what it is
Spirit532yeah because that rocket has barely any fuel in
Spirit532it's only the first stage
DuckleSpirit532: Also, it's not like they'll have spacex rocket pads at the top of trump tower :)
Spirit532and it's spent
SpeedEvilShadowJK: no, boeing
Spirit532but if an empty rocket explodes spectacularly on a barge
ShapeshifterSpeedEvil: seems very clever, too. Hadn'nt heard of this prefer. wonder what will come of it.
Spirit532imagine how much damage a fully fueled one can
DuckleSpirit532: I don't think the plan is to blow them up
Ducklethat'd exceed max G force on it's passengers
Spirit532someone with a gun and a desire to kill people has that exact plan
Spirit532who needs to manually aim at a bunch of people
DuckleSpirit532: weird that it doesn't happen more to airplanes then
Spirit532just shoot the massive industrial storage tank of high explosives
Spirit532sitting right there
DuckleNot that much harder ,and 100s of people per can
SpeedEvilShapeshifter: note that it only recovers the engines. And by that stage, if spacex is ten years late on BFR, BFR will be launching a couple of years after it with a thousandth of the launch cost.
Spirit532not that much harder?
Spirit532well consider that depressurising an airplane, even if you somehow hit it in the air, barely does damage
SpeedEvilSpirit532: some of the failures hit the barge at most of mach 1.
Spirit532that too
DuckleSpirit532: You want to fuck up takeoff or landing
Ducklenot midflight
Spirit532airplane engines can eat flocks of birds and not die
Duckleonce a plane has altitude it's very safe
Spirit532the rest.... well, yeah
DuckleSpirit532: No they very much die if they do that
Ducklejust, the altitude thing again
Spirit532well they don't die catastrophically
Spirit532they're designed to not kill everyone if they die
Duckleright, they won't blow up
Ducklejust won't provide any thrust either
Spirit532which is fine anyway
Spirit532since most airliners can run redundant on a single engine
Spirit532(just not very far)
Duckleno argument that rocket people transport is insanity today
baldfatI just need to run six 7 segment and 4 buttons and do simple math. What's the cheapest microchip? ATmega8
Ducklebut I don't know if it'd be insanity in 10-20 yeras
SpeedEvilSpirit532: The event that lead to the landing on the hudson river almost ended in 'everyone died uncatastrophically'
ShapeshifterSpeedEvil: it seems intuitive that the engines/control are the most expensive part. But yeah, while the hull itself is very cheap, the tanks are still worth something.
Spirit532the hyperloop is really dumb
Spirit532it's a design failure too
Ducklebaldfat: go to digikey, solve by pincount
Ducklebaldfat: and price
baldfatDuckle, thanks
SpeedEvilSpirit532: if the pilot had tried to get back to the airport, everyone would likely have died
Spirit532SpeedEvil, but he didn't
joe_zSpeedEvil, but that was a double engine failure IIRC
DuckleSpirit532: there's a movie about that :)
SpeedEvilSpirit532: that was more luck and skill than something you can rely on.
Ducklewith tom hanks
Spirit532if something goes wrong with either the rocket or the hyperloop
Spirit532people will die
Duckleif the pilot had followed procedures people would've died
Spirit532there's zero chance of people being alive
DuckleSpirit532: Today, sure.
DuckleI won't say it'll be like that forever though
Spirit532well maybe in 50 years
DuckleSpirit532: Also, the hyperloop isn't a new idea
Shapeshifterplease not the hyperloop.
password4SpeedEvil: the solar roof is not profitable afaik
Spirit532it is also dead for a very good reason
SpeedEvilSpirit532: If something irrecoverable goes wrong. The design as expressed of the BFR and BFS has complete engine redundancy and the engines are designed not to catastrophically fail in chain reactions.
DuckleI remember back when discovery channel wasn't about crab fishing, that it had been considered for a trans atlantic tunnel
SpeedEvilpassword4: do you mean not profitable for spacex?
password4the cost of a tile already accounts for what you would save in electricity
Duckle8000km/h train tunnel between france and ny
password4for the end user
Spirit532thing is with vacuum tunnels
Spirit532at such a high vacuum
Spirit532I think they said 100 microns?
Spirit532if a small hole develops
SpeedEvilSpirit532: it's considerably more than that. ~1% atm.
password4ie after like 20 years the roof would cost the same as a regular one if you take into account teh electricity you save
Spirit532it'll rip the tunnel to shreds
Spirit532that's how physics work
DuckleSpirit532: not really
Spirit532yes really
SpeedEvilSpirit532: No, it won't, the tunnel is already under 5-6 bar of pressure due to teh depth
password4or whatever time epriod they stated
Spirit532vacuum + 5-6 bar
ShapeshifterTHIS is the problem with the hyperloop.
Spirit532if underwater
electrobotShapeshifter just linked to Railroad tank car vacuum implosion - YouTube
DuckleSpirit532: any tunnel under ground is under more preassure than it'll ever be if pumped to perfect vacuum
Spirit532but imagine if a hole develops
Spirit532that huge pressure different will sear the hole into a huge chunk and then shred the rest of the section
Duckleeven an underwater tunnel doesn't instantly rip appart if a small leak forms
Spirit532if not all of the tunnel
SpeedEvilSpirit532: there is no huge pressure difference any more than there is in the underground systems.
Duckleit's just 1atm
Shapeshifterif the hyperloop is above ground, thermal expansion alone is enough to cause this.
Duckleit's nothing
Spirit532we're going on the bottom of the ocean
SpeedEvilSpirit532: It is the difference between 5 and 6 bars.
Spirit532it's a lot more than 5 to 6 bar
Spirit532it's 50, 60, 500
SpeedEvilSpirit532: what?
Ducklethe problem with high vacuums is that it get's really hard to get a hold of those last air molecules, as they are so far appart
Spirit532the ocean is deep
SpeedEvilSpirit532: 51 to 50 bars then.
SpeedEvilIf either happens, you're fucked, vacuum or 1 bar doesn't matter.
Spirit532have you ever seen a many-thousand-km-long vacuum chamber
Spirit532at 50+ bar of differential
DuckleSpirit532: I don't think elon ever said anything about transatlantic btw. that was someone else
Spirit532but even across a continent
SpeedEvilI personally believe that the hyperloop in largely evacuated tunnel was a smokescreen intended to make others laugh at his tunnel proposals.
Duckleand yes, that's a bad idea for a multitude of reasons
Shapeshifterhyperloop is not going to happen. without the vacuum - maybe, but not at a near vacuum, that is entirely impossible.
SpeedEvilThe nearish term is intended to be electric skates carrying cars in tunnels at ~120mph
DuckleSpeedEvil: Agreed
SpeedEvilThis is doable today, with absolutely no new tech (maybe faster tunnelers)
DuckleShapeshifter: not entirely impossible. entirely impractible
Ducklelike, completely and 100% insanely impractical
ShapeshifterDuckle: impossible, unless you use extremely thick steel, bury it underground, protect it from corrosion and use a gigantic pump to create the vacuum. Practically impossible.
Spirit532you know what Ol' Musky needs to do with the money he's spending on the hyperfail?
Spirit532give it to us
DuckleShapeshifter: Normal unerground concrete tunnels are able to contain a vacuum
DuckleShapeshifter: You're overestimating the forces in play
ShapeshifterBut I wonder if it could work without the vacuum. Like a pneumatic tube. But I have no idea.
DuckleShapeshifter: Normal underground tunnels ahve to withstand >5 bar of water preassure
DuckleSpirit532: More specifically, give it to me
DuckleI could use it for cake
Spirit532they don't have to withstand water all around it at 5 bar continuously
Spirit532and they don't have to be hermetically sealed
Ducklethey do
Ducklenot at the ends of
Spirit532it's mechanical pressure
Spirit532with dirt
Ducklethe water is the main issue
Ducklethey have to be water tight to avoid errosion
SpeedEvilSpirit532: in many or most tunnels, the water table is above the tunnel, they need 'perfectly' sealed or you get erosion due to flow of high pressure water
Ducklethe main issue with the vacuum idea, is not the tunnel itself. It's that if you loose vacuum while traveling at the speeds that require vacuum, have fun hitting a wall of air
Spirit532(and then have fun hitting the other cars at close to sonic speeds)
Duckleif you're the one hitting the wall of air, then you won't hit any other cars, they'll hit you, and that's kinda ireleveant as you'd space cars safely :)
password4SpeedEvil: to clarify , if you were to buy the solar roof panels , without the solar part , it would work out cheaper in the longterm
password4assuming you just pay for the electricity you use
Duckledepends on where you live
Ducklea lot
Ducklenot just on the generated power, but also based on cost of electricity
password4Duckle: talking to me?
SpeedEvilpassword4: there is also risk avoidance, if you believe the cost of electricity or your personal circumstances may change
password4well this assumes a place where electricity is not silly cheap
Ducklehow's 0.4 usd /kwh? :)
password4probably the figures tesla used
Duckleit actually pays to have solar in Denmark
Duckleand we're a fairly northern country
password4SpeedEvil: regular solar panels exist
password4and Duckle
SpeedEvilpassword4: sure. They do look nicer however.
Duckleand password4
SpeedEvilpassword4: It makes lots more sense if you're replacing the roof anyway
password4also this is not account for additional heating costs the panels may cause
Ducklepassword4: ?
password4SpeedEvil: not really , its more expensive than a new roof , only after you factor in the electricity savings it becomes comparable
Duckleheating costs? Because the panel takes the heat put into the roof away?
password4Duckle: no , because they leak sunlight into attic
password4so it bypasses teh isolation a bit
SpeedEvilpassword4: No, they don't.
Ducklepassword4: Yes, there's obviously an investment, but what speed and I are saying is that the RoI is realistic
password4well i meant to say cooling
SpeedEvilpassword4: why do you think they leak sunlight
password4what I'm saying is tesla also included the ROI
Ducklepassword4: they don't compromise isolation unless they are mounted horribly
password4SpeedEvil: because their mostly semi transparent
_abc_Hi. Way off topic but interesting: I've always wondered why English people bothered to build stone walls alongside roads. Wood would have been stolen. And the sheep prove the walls work... Excellent ...
_abc_... -- it's much harder to chase after 100 sheep every other day than to build the wall once. Ha!
Ducklepassword4: The tiles don't insulate anything
_abc_On topic: how bad is the Arduino I2C library?
Ducklepassword4: The insulation under the tiles do that
password4_abc_: is it not the high humidity / rain/
SpeedEvilpassword4: why do you think that.
_abc_Apropos Tesla, VW just ripped into Tesla.
Duckle_abc_: In which way? :)
SpeedEvilpassword4: they are as I understand it wholly opaque from the bottom.
password4SpeedEvil: why dont you think that?
_abc_In the manner of 'oh it works now but sometimes resets / I dunno why'
SpeedEvilpassword4: plus, they are designed to have an underlayer, as all tiles are AIUI.
Duckle_abc_: So they badmounted them?
password4look , if you were to rip of the solar element , then i think they may have a real product
Ducklelike, did they just talk shit about them, or did they actually do damage?
_abc_Anyway I need to use I2C for once and am eyeing the existing Arduino library. Without using Arduino.
Ducklepassword4: They have that too, for the non solar facing side of the house
password4Duckle: if you covered the whole house in it , the ROI should be higher
DuckleReturn on Investment is time
Ducklenot a price
password4yes and it will be immediate massive cost saving
Duckleit's time
_abc_Duckle: Arduino libs are known for X versions, Y forks, nobody knows which is 'best' and tantalizing forum feedback on almost every one of them along the lines of 'send me code, it not work sundays'
password4ROI is two things
Duckle_abc_: wrong nick I thinkg
password4how fast you make your money back and how much money you make bakc
Ducklepassword4: It's "when will the investment have paid for itself"
_abc_Duckle: you answered me in error and I assumed it was not an error :)
Duckle_abc_: No I responded about the VW ripping into tesla :)
_abc_Duckle: ah that.
_abc_I can link the article but it is easy to find.
Ducklefair nuff :)
_abc_Fun counterfeit products (ordered online)
Duckleoh. lol
ozzzyI think VW was awesome.... tweaking the ECU to recognize gov't intervention was a masterstroke
_abc_ Duckle
Ducklethat headline is great
_abc_ozzzy: yes but now nobody knows who did it 1st since all cars seem to do about the same thing
joe_zozzzy, that wasn't VW though, that ingenity was Bosch
_abc_Duckle: there's a youtube interview from VW boss.
SpeedEvil'barely selling 80000 cars a year'
SpeedEvilFrom a standing start of 0.
ozzzyteslas are a waste of money
password4Has actuall specs on the solar roof been realesed , cost per tile , peak wattage output and yearly output?
SpeedEvilWhile starting up a massive production effort for the 3
_abc_SpeedEvil: Well, compared with VW's sales, it's like small change
joe_zIf they had gone with a continental automotive ECU, they wouldn't have had these issues :D
SpeedEvil_abc_: sure.
Duckleozzzy: Ad are all sports cars
joe_z(you can probably guess who I worked for)
password4what happens to a tesla when its battery pack dies?
joe_zpassword4, throw it out and buy a new one
password4i want a sell or two
Duckleyou either get a new one, or a new car
_abc_SpeedEvil: on a more interesting German electric car note: the German Mail system has been producing it's own electric pickups for mail delivery.
SpeedEvil_abc_: but ripping into them for losses, when they are standing up a production facility to produce many times more than that in sales is just comedic
_abc_SpeedEvil: They are probably interesting enough for other European services to catch on and buy them
SpeedEvilpassword4: the battery pack is warranteed to a reasonable degree, I forget the details, if it fails, they return it
_abc_SpeedEvil: having a big factory does not lead to great sales, alas.
Duckleit's funny how it's become almost fashionable to hate on elon / tesla / spacex
jozedisassemble and photograph the secret placement of the 18650 batteries
Duckledude does crazy shit, but some of it's neat
_abc_SpeedEvil: Also Tesla is involved in all sorts of non-car side-plots which are hard to explain for some company which tries to make *cars*
SpeedEvil_abc_: no, it doesn't, unless you have lots and lots of orders for the 3
SpeedEvilwhich they do
_abc_Nobody hates them, they are just Robber Baron style free for all "inventors", jumping stages etc.
SpeedEvil^Battery warranty is 8 years.
password4SpeedEvil: longer than 16 years?
_abc_What people hate is hype that does not pan out, and unserviceable cars (like the 1st Tesla models were)
password4I've seeen cell for sale on ebay too
jozewill they put a magnetic field to mars?
nickromancerACTION upgrades password4 
Ducklethere's elon religious nuts, and there's haters
Duckleand then alot of meh. Looks cool :P
DuckleI don't really know where I stand
DuckleI feel like a tesla won't be interesting for me before we find a new battery chem
Duckleas a daily driver that is
SpeedEvil_abc_: you mean non-car as in solarcity?
_abc_ seriously. Gotta be blind to assume this is ANY genuine product.
SpeedEvilDuckle: What length is your daily commute
DuckleSpeedEvil: Short, the problem for me would be when I have to go far
_abc_SpeedEvil: solarcity and iirc 2 more things I forget, the home battery thing and the solar roof thing. There may be more.
SpeedEvil_abc_: some of the other things you're thinking of may be other Musk companies. boring, forex
ozzzytesla will never be interesting to me unless they build a pickup that'll tow my trailer 500km on a charge and recharge in 10 minutes just about anywhere
_abc_SpeedEvil: "normally" companies which have the cojones to support leading edge product development on several fronts at once like Tesla does, have massive financial backing and 100 years of engineering experience.
Duckleozzzy: oooor, they put a small diesel genny in there :)
_abc_SpeedEvil: you can't pull working product out of someone's navel overnight, regardless of the hubris of the main CEO architect's visions.
ozzzythen leave the electrics behind and just give me a diesel
Ducklejust a backup genny
Shawn186are 0.22 ohm resistors rare?
SpeedEvil_abc_: Sure. So is your assumption the 3 will be a terrible car?
Ducklelimist the car to x power output
ozzzyDuckle, that's a waste
DuckleShawn186: nope
Duckleozzzy: I mean, that's just a hybrid
_abc_SpeedEvil: so either the 1st products suck and the customers are paying alpha testers (that sounds so painfully familiar now), OR it's a company which did some of those things before in a somewhat related way and is able to deliver technically.
ozzzyhybrid just eats away the payload
Duckleit's a bandaid solution for li-ion tech
Shawn186why can't I find any red red grey/silver gold/silver resistors on any of these PC power supply boards?
_abc_SpeedEvil: my assumption would be the 3 would be better than 2 and 2 better than 1 but 3 may be less good than something turned out by someone with 100 years of experience. Like Renault/Nissan, GM, Toyota, etc etc.
SpeedEvil_abc_: Why is the tesla S actually market leading in terms of customer satisfaction then
Duckledidn't tesla also make a truck?
_abc_SpeedEvil: probably the same reason people love unrepairable iShiny electronics. Nobody is going to say it sucks after paying through the nose and then "having the item some A-lister has"
ozzzyDuckle, they're making a city delivery semi
Duckleozzzy: Makes much more sense then :P
SpeedEvil_abc_: If customers say they're satisfied to other people, that actually doesn't matter.
Duckle_abc_: that's not how they test for customer satisfaction
Ducklehave you driven one?
_abc_<aside>I absolutely HATE websites which do not put a date on their articles - the above link was from 2015 or before - those trucks are already rolling in numbers
Duckleyou're going to have a hard time to find the same kind of acceleration in normal cars
_abc_Duckle: No I have not.
ozzzyDuckle, why do you need that level of acceleration
Ducklethe tesla S is a sports car
_abc_SpeedEvil: yes, customers and "customers" saying they are happy with the product is a component of marketing nowadays. Viral too.
Duckleit's not a car for your frugal sensible commuter
Duckleit's a sports car
synx508it works quite well for frugal sensible commuters though
SpeedEvilI guess we'll see in several months, when 3 hits in volume.
ozzzyhow fast can you go? maximum speed limit here is 100km/h.... 60km/h in the city on majors... 50km/h elsewhere
Duckle3 is the one for the frugal crowd :)
SpeedEvilIf production quality is terrible, then that's one thing. IF everyone is overjoyed with their new car, then _abc_ was wrong.
SpeedEvil(and the ramp is proceeding)
Duckleozzzy: That argument goes for all sports cars :)
synx508I'm not sure that the 3 returns as much for the investment, but it's cheaper
ozzzyDuckle, yep
_abc_Right. So let's see how the 'frugal people' #3 will fare when compared with e-Golf, Prius, etc
Ducklethat said, I live close to the german border, sooo as fast as my car can :P
Ducklewhich is 0
Duckleas I don't have a car currently
synx508it's not really competing with hybrids
_abc_There's an e-Mini too and iirc an e-Fiat
_abc_synx508: I assume sooner or later Toyota will come out with a full electric one in the Prius series.
_abc_Prius is at model 3 or 4 now?
Ducklemy guess is on later
ozzzyprius has the right idea
ozzzya small atkinson cycle engine for going down the highway and the electrics for the city
DuckleI think they'll let tesla take all the risks, then once it's a proven safe product, they'll go all electric
_abc_Duckle: Unlike Tesla Toyota is into making cars which people buy and drive all over the world. And they are not in the business of providing charging stations or anything like that, so they stick to hybrids. Which do not need (but can) use charging ...
_abc_... externally.
SpeedEvilKey is if Tesla can get autodrive approved quickly.
_abc_Duckle: you can be sure any car makers who can make cars can also make electrics.
Ducklethey'll let tesla take the risks
_abc_And WILL.
SpeedEvilIf they can, ...
SpeedEvil(and by autodrive, I mean full door-door)
ozzzyone of our members drove his tesla to the eclipse... it took forever as he hunted off-track for charging stations
Duckle_abc_: they can, but I don't think they will, before someone like tesla has proven it sells
_abc_The idea being that Tesla operates in a country where he can turn the local infrastructure into a business and make money, unlike in Europe where there would be so much red tape that he'd stop dead before starting.
DuckleI see plenty of teslas here
synx508plenty here too
_abc_Duckle: you can't sell anything profitably on a continent where infrastructure costs are subsidized and are a major part of state finances (and crony economy based thereon). That's most of EU.
Duckleand heck, teslas make more sense here, as you're not going to be driving super long trips
TheTrash_abc_: haha, really? He can't eve sell them without a dealership in Texas, how's that for communism.
_abc_Duckle: where?
Duckle_abc_: Denmark
_abc_TheTrash: that is also a problem but there are 48+2+2 states and he can in the others.
ozzzybut denmark is only a long drive, a chip and a putt from one end to the other
_abc_(or is it 48+2+4 I forget)
ozzzyACTION ducks
Duckleozzzy: exactly, it's a good fit here :)
_abc_ozzzy: you need to duck the windmill blades and jump over the cows.
ozzzyACTION used to drive his kids 400km each way to McDonalds
Duckleozzzy: Denmark is tiny, that's not really a secret :P
_abc_ozzzy: heh
_abc_ozzzy: where are you ? UK?
_abc_Oh, yeah, 400 clicks is just over the hill for .ca
nickromancerlol right
Duckleoh man, you have like 100 sqkm per person there given as a sacred birthright
_abc_Duckle: by tiny country standards, the Vatican should be #1 in electric cars, no? Segways and e-scooters is all it takes...
joe_zmost of the canadian population lives right by the US/CA border
Ducklelots of land compared to amount of people in canada :)
ozzzy100 sq km of scrub spruce, mosquitos and black flies
ozzzyjoe_z, 90% within 100km of the US border
Duckle_abc_: I uhm, I don't think people stay in the vatican :P
_abc_Duckle: Some people do stay there. Anyway e-scooters a la Vespa are very popular. Chinese mostly, but not only. Here too.
_abc_ozzzy: did you live in the boonies?
_abc_Someone once joked that the mosquitoes in upper Canada are so large they can fly off with small children. And their sting was designed to go through bison pelts and skin.
Ducklethat said, cars are a very different thing here
n2Duckle, oi!
n2Nothing wrong with small cars!
_abc_We had some *bad* mozzies here in the last 2 years, they sting thought jeans and tshirts!
_abc_I assume they escaped from some place with bisons and other thick skinned mammals.
ozzzy_abc_, Alaska highway
Ducklethe government just reduced the taxes a third time, so now it's only 150% regristration tax on cars
Ducklen2: oi
n2ACTION has a small car
n2A fierce small car
Duckleafter the 25% vat
_abc_Duckle: wow.
Duckleso you pay the price of the car + 175%
joe_zand I thought illinois was bad
n2Yes, you do.
silipwnDoes anybody here break Hardware ?
Duckleit used to be 200% regristration tax, then it was 180, now it's this
n2Duckle, except for small cars
Duckleand under a certain pricepoint its 105
n2< 100k DKK
_abc_Duckle: wait, is there a partial waiver on tax for electric cars, like there was in Norway?
Duckleunder 100k it's 105%
n2would only suffer a 80% registration tax
n2_abc_, there was.
n2No more.
_abc_silipwn: no, we fix it
Duckle_abc_: There used to be no tax on electrics
Duckleno more
n2Electric cars have issues, anyway
silipwn_abc_: I meant as of a security aspect.
Ducklen2: Oh it's downt to 80%
joe_zhere in this state, in the US...
_abc_n2: I remember TESLA made some noise about the abolishment of the tax causing them some sort of problems...
n2_abc_, it's never good if an industry can't survive
n2without MASSIVE subsidies
joe_zon a car that cost me $2133 used, I paid about $500 in tax, registration, title transfer
_abc_n2: indeed.
Duckle_abc_: And, on the other hand, how the tax break was an unfair advantage for them :)
n2that means that somewhere in the supply chain
n2there is an issue
joe_zyearly, $105 to renew registration
nullifierold HP test equipment is a neverending source of fascinating parts
n2that causes the products to, well, be too expensive
n2in this case, batteries...
_abc_SpeedEvil: did you know about the massive tax breaks for electric cars in .no until recently? Which just so happened to make Teslas popular there?
Ducklemmmmh lithiu
n2Duckle, my significant others' friend is a battery chemist
n2She doesn't believe in electric cars
n2There aren't any viable technologies out there
TheTrashWell, all that is financed with income from oil, so there's that :D
_abc_nullifier: you can get so much money selling HP parts as spares on ebay you can buy almost any test equipment with the proceeds.
n2Sodium ion batteries /maybe/...
Ducklen2: yet
n2but they weigh more per watt-second
TheTrashHuh, they look pretty viable to me, driving by.
n2Sure, Duckle
n2but from lab to car
n220+ years
DuckleAl oxide
Shawn186where might I find a .22 ohm resistor?
n2there are no current in-lab technologies
TheTrashThis 500-600km range thing is completely arbitrary.
Duckleal oxide :(
n2Shawn186, in a store
nullifierWell I just pulled apart a 10mhz function generator, original manufacture date June 15th, 1990
Shawn186I can't even find R22 on any of my equipment
n2Shawn186, put two .1 ohm in series
n2or parallel 4 1 ohm
Shawn186n2, with money yes, but I am looking on electronics boards I have
nullifierit even has the mod-aux 50-800mhz oven in the back
Ducklethen it's an impossible question to answer
n2If you look on this 34063 board I made, Shawn186
silipwn_abc_: Any idea who might be dping that?
n2the "0.22 ohm resistor" is two 0.1 ohm in series
n2and it's impossible to tell you where to find a low value resistor
_abc_SpeedEvil: meanwhile, in Norway, they are clawing back a bit...
Shawn186neat, dont see any .22 ohm resistors
n2Shawn186, the two .1 ohms in series
DuckleShawn186: notice the two resistors solderd together in stead of one
n2like i wrote
n2the two resistors standing up
Duckle... --- ...
SpeedEvil_abc_: which would not cover the majority of Teslas.
Shawn186n2, can't read those color codes
n2They are
SpeedEvilThe three and the S (non insane) version isn't covered
n2two in series
n2makes 0.2 ohm
_abc_SpeedEvil: it would cover the majority of the ones already sold there? Which is the point?
n2I said there were two resistors in series instead of a single resistor
n2Also, if you look at the silk screen under 'em
n2it says "R28"
n2i.e. 0.28 ohm
n2But 0.2 ohm is alright
Shawn186n2, theres quite a difference between numbers and colors...
n2it doesn't influence the output voltage
n2Shawn186, you really aren't creative with electronics are you? :P
n2you can make 0.25 ohm with 4 1 ohm resistors
Shawn186I am!
n2put them in parallel
n2Or make 0.2 ohm with two 0.1 ohm in series
n2it's not that difficult
Shawn186I dont trust 4 1ohm resistors, that will eat up my battery
n2They will act as a single 0.25 ohm resistor
n2That's how resistors work in parallel
n2Besides, the low ohm resistor is not for power
n2it's a sense resistor
n2it senses the current
Shawn186its going through more wire...
n2and thus acts to /limit/ the current
n2It doesn't go from Vin to Ground, Shawn186
_abc_SpeedEvil: you can see how the efforts to bilk the piggy bank will backfire spectacularly. Tax by weight simply means advanced electric cars will be made of Titanium and composites. Tax that.
n2It's a /SENSE/ resistor
Shawn186to get from vin to ground, it has to get through the electronics
n2Yes, Shawn186
n2and those electronics mean it doesn't draw from Vin to Ground
_abc_Lithium is already quite light and not a problem.
n2because it's not supposed to
SpeedEvil_abc_: the limit is two tons.
n2it is a /sensing/ resistor
SpeedEvil_abc_: The tesla S (non p90d) and the tesla 3 are both under that
TheTrashTax by weight is quite outdated. CO2 is the measure here.
_abc_SpeedEvil: yes, and I can tell you <1 ton cars work fine
Shawn1861 0.22 ohm resistor is a lot shorter a path, than 4 1/2W 1k's
Shawn186I also have 1/4w
n2Shawn186, ...
n2not 1K's
n21 ohms
_abc_TheTrash: electric cars taxed by CO2 emissions sounds GREAT.
SpeedEvil_abc_: 'under 2 tons' - 1999kg is under two tons.
n24 1 ohm resistors EQUAL 0.25 ohm
n2they act as ONE resistor
n2No "shorter path" or whatever
n2They act equivalent to a single 0.25 ohm resistor
_abc_SpeedEvil: I know, I see what you mean, but I am sure they will "fix" the tax to "adjust" the "target" income for the government raised by that tax. After all, there is no point in taxing if it does not bring money, no?
DuckleShawn186: distance is irellevant
TheTrashStill has its drawbacks... you see these Mitsubishi Outlander PHEVs everywhere here, because it's "hybrid", meaning it can limp like 20km on batteries and is otherwise a huge gas guzzler.
Duckleresistance is all that matters
TheTrashOf course hardly anyone charges it.
n2There is also an advantage to parallel resistors
Shawn186what is an SMD resistor labeled 01C?
_abc_SpeedEvil: nota bene, I am a cynic. But I have good reasons.
n2Shawn186, no idea, look it up on google
n2Go google stuff, man
n2Jesus christ
TheTrashBut they did work around that to prevent subsidizing that sort of stuff.
n2"01C SMD resistor"
n2Heaven helps the man that helps himself, Shawn186
Shawn186I google quite a bit..
_abc_n2: heaven is where the man who helps himself goes, if the wiring is hot
Shawn186forgive me for choosing to ask here instead..
n2No, but, Shawn186
n2you're asking basic questions
n2and just keeping at it
SpeedEvil_abc_: The weight of the teslas and similar small cars was known at the time the regulation was introduced.d
n2Those questions are best answered on Google
Shawn186no? how rude
n2Because you can also find an explanation there
TheTrashIt wasn't even the question, it's the way you react to the answers.
n2No, YOU are being rude
Shawn186okay its a 10k resistor
_abc_SpeedEvil: Okay, we'll see about this. What I do notice is, this new regulation might impact delivery vans and pickups, as those of the DHL and German post I linked earlyer.
spludn2: "Heaven helpt the man that helps himself" Shawn 1:86
_abc_SpeedEvil: the article shows they are not shy about motivation, they want more money to "offset tax income lost by the electric car boom"
n2splud, INDEED!
n2So sayeth the LORD
_abc_SpeedEvil: afte a number of iterations they will find one which bleeds the victims properly, and latch on and feed.
TheTrashWell that's entirely reasonable. The whole point was to stimulate sales of electrics, I'd say it worked.
n2Oy vey
spludWhile we're on the topic of "what is this part..."
LiI've purchased this motor for a starter and I'm wondering which driver I can buy yet serve bigger steppers if I wanted to upgrade? "17HS3401 4-lead Nema 17 Stepper Motor 42 motor 42BYGH 1.3A CE ROSH ISO CNC Laser and 3D printe"
spludI have a small bin of parts sitting here for a project that's been "on the back burner" for ... 35 years.
_abc_Li: 1.3A motors are small, any driver will work with them, as long as it is >1.5A.
spludBut not all the parts are here, and there are several diodes I'm trying to ID. The little orange glass type, through hole.
_abc_Li: almost any driver.
spludThe best I can make off of the very slight printing on them is "FOH" and "600"
spludand that's not for sure.
spludgetting no luck with those markings.
password8zener diodes?
spludglass things can be small signal diodes.
_abc_interesting thread on the cost of running Diesel, LNG, CNG generators vs. grid and costs
password8zeners are very often glass ,
_abc_splud: FDH600 should be a valid diode part number
ThePendulumpassword8: any more often than regular diodes?
_abc_splud: onsemi
ThePendulumI still need to sort out my zeners, kinda want to put them in my assortment cabinet, but it has 4 sections per drawer
ThePendulumguess I can put them in bags but meh
_abc_splud: does it look likt this?
spludYea, I was just looking at them under different light this morning and thinking the middle letter might be a D.
ThePendulumhow do you keep them?
ThePendulumsorry, yes, how do you like to keep them?
_abc_I can't type well, my desk is cluttered and the keyboard is dying.
spludIt sits above the junction in the glass, so is much more difficult to make out. I even tried using UV, but no dice.
ThePendulumI'm sorry to hear that, did you get along well/
_abc_splud: btw thanks for pointing out a super fast recovery diode :)
_abc_brr 1978
spludThe diode isn't the gray DO35 package
spludpassword8, I know zeners are often glass. But 1N4148 are as well.
ThePendulum1978... when Stayin' Alive and Night Fever were topping the charts
_abc_SpeedEvil: btw the German mail vans (the small kind of the 2) weigh 1500kgs curb weight fwiw
password8how will i now identify zeners!
ThePendulumput a voltage across them
spludThe bee-gees were okay, in small doses.
password8ACTION puts a voltage accross ThePendulum 
ThePendulumpassword8: I conduct in one way but only in the other when I've drank too much alcohol
password8so alcohol based mosfet
spludpassword8, I have a little boost circuit that I can put an unknown zener in, and when the voltage climbs to the zener voltage, an LED lights up.
password8i conduct in the opposite direction to what you wnat
password8splud thats novel
password8you get cheap component testers too
spludthe boost is a Joule Thief - the zener and LEDs are in place of the LED in the standard JT config.
ThePendulumI need more female heads
spludcheap component testers like the ones discussed here frequently can't identify the breakdown voltage for anything above perhaps 4.5V
ThePendulumerr breadboard dupont >.> just to clarify
password8splud , ok
_abc_ that is so ugly I like it.
spludWas starting to think you were some Swedish inventor with a penchant for reporters.
_abc_splud: what is a standard JT config?
password8_abc_: i would not mind driving one
password8i like the form
password8but i like small squareish cars
_abc_splud: in 1978 they did not make epoxy diodes yet, I think. Glass is expected for small signal ones.
spludthanks for the assist _abc_
Shawn186okay found 4 1 ohm smd resistors
_abc_splud: what is a standard JT config?
spludJoule Thief.
_abc_Why do people call a half Royer converter a Joule Thief?
spludYea, I guess there are a lot variations on the circuit.
_abc_(actually the Royer uses a resonant cap unlike these flyback converters)
password8there was glass transistors too
password8any how well they worked depended on ambient light
_abc_There were some strange parts in the past yes
_abc_Point contact Ge transistors were under no circumstances to reach 75 degC or so, including not when soldered.
_abc_Most I see in older radios STILL are soldered on with full length terminals, flapping in the wind, so to speak
spludinductor with wire wrapped around it, a 1K resistor, NPN transistor, and connection for LED (which in this case runs to a zener, resistor and LED)
_abc_VEF Selena radios are notorious for this
password8my lecturer told me he made an oscillator with such transistor , and coupled a speaker. He noticed teh resonant freq went up with more light , so he made ~20khz mosquito like buzzer
LeoNerdSometimes called geraniums, because that flower is also quite sensitive to temperature
password8as soon as you turn the light on the freq goes so high you cant hear it
password8he planted it in his sisters room
password8so each time she turns teh light on to figure out where the light is comming from it stops
spludHrm, I'd enclose the thing and put an adjustable light source nearby...
spludwhere the buzz is coming from you mean?
Loetmichel_abc_: that may be because germanium has a REALLY now melting point.
ThePendulumdo you (personally) pronounce iI²C as eye two see, or eye squared see?
LeoNerdI usually say "two", but I'm aware most people don't
spludMany mosquitoes don't like light either. So you can have mosquito buzzing you in the dark, and when you turn on the light to get the fecker, it's nowhere to be seen. Light off, and it returns.
SpeedEvilAll mosquitos are deterred by the right light source.
LoetmichelThePendulum: i pronounce it "eeee quadrat ceee"
_abc_Loetmichel: it's the Indium contacts which were lower melting and caused this.
ThePendulumkier: German(ic)?
ThePendulumerr Loetmichel
SpeedEvilLaser induced mortality of Anopheles stephensi mosquitoes
LoetmichelThePendulum: correct, i am german
_abc_SpeedEvil: hehe wasn't the Gates foundation working on a laser mozzie killer?
password8well he took like 20 years to admit to her that he did it , and she remembered , thats how annoying his circuit was
LoetmichelSpeedEvil: thats oooold news.
SpeedEvilLoetmichel: yes, I hadn't previously seen any work on required wattage though
tomeaton17I want to 3d print a solder mask (I know it will be bad but oh well), so how do I convert a gbr file to an stl file?
Loetmichelits a neat idea, but the problem is that you dont want the black dots on any wall...
Loetmichelor start fires it some easily combustible material is in the way behind the mosquito
SpeedEvil_abc_: yes, it's got problems.
_abc_Well, do it the army way. Problems? Use a bigger laser.
password8_abc_: you know the irony of that laser?
_abc_ hmm laser wall does not always mean Watts.
ThePendulumhas anyone driven 16×02 LCD displays with a Pi over an i2c display adapter before? trying to get it to work, maybe someone has used a lib recently that they know works. did you require a level shifter/
password8malaria carrying mosquitos dont emit the high pitched sound
_abc_ 2014 India
ZeroWalkerlove how much performance difference simple stuff has on stm32, like just having unused variables, even with O3 does have an impact xd
ThePendulumI also understand I should use the pot on the i2c adapter for the brightness, not something on the display board itself?
ThePendulumor the contrast, rather
ThePendulumah yep, got it :-)
_abc_ZeroWalker: can you please rephrase that? :)
_abc_The stm32 targeting compiler back end is much better than the one targeting avr etc.
kmcia_abc_: on GCC?
_abc_avr-gcc outputs some large farts under certain conditions.
kmciathere are lots of compilers that target ARM / STM32
kmciaI wonder how good the llvm avr support is
kmciait's very new iirc
_abc_kmcia: Most people here will use arm-gcc
ZeroWalkeroh, well no clue what i am using tbh, it's arduino, no idea what it does in the background, but O3 feels like GCC?
_abc_Llvm is possible too
_abc_ZeroWalker: not necessarily but usually yes
kmcia_abc_: i dunno, if they're doing pro work they might use IAR or Keil
kmciaIAR is okay, Keil sucs from what I hear
kmcianever used Keil though
spludI have the arm-llvm repo stashed away, but haven't tried it - I've read enough stuff indicating there is iffyness going on.
_abc_kmcia: and not come here :) We're peasants here. Most of us :)
kmciawell maybe so
kmciaa lot of people here do seem to have some pro experience though
spludby "pro work" do you mean "wasting money"?
_abc_splud: rephrased: it is an emerging good compiler. Let's wait for it to emerge properly.
kmciaanyway, plenty of shops use gcc too
_abc_splud: someone else's money yes
ZeroWalkernot sure where i can see what compiler it uses
kmciaalso hi ZeroWalker :) what's new
ZeroWalkerthe entire arduino thing is just messy
ZeroWalkerhi hi;d
_abc_ZeroWalker: the arduino ide always uses gcc afaik
ZeroWalkerplaying around with stm32;)
kmciai just woke up
kmciait's a bit cold here, wish landlord would turn the heat up
ZeroWalkeryeah they never turn the thing on where i live
kmciatomeaton17: a solder paste stencil you mean?
ZeroWalkerluckily it's usually kinda warm cause of my pc always being on
kmciaZeroWalker: haha yeah. I should get my 2 bitcoin miners going
_abc_Geek heaters do not look or sound like everyone else's
kmciathat'll heat the place up
joe_zkmcia, easy solution: run enough electronics in your room to heat the whole house
kmciaI don't have enough computers on atm
joe_zfind some old pentium 4 machines or something
ThePendulumnow to get the STM8 version working at last, literally everything I tried seemed to break
kmciaI should build an ETH mining rig though
kmciafor real
_abc_There are some places which use residual heat from computing centers to keep greenhouses warm. Iirc in Sweden and in Canada?
joe_zold dell poweredges do a nice job at heating apartments
kmciaI have fixed cost electricity
kmciaalthough I don't want to abuse that so much
kmcia_abc_: nice
kmciaor I could start growing marijuana indoors
password8ThePendulum: bonus points if you can IRC from there
kmciathat'd do it
banandanado that
_abc_ThePendulum: STM8 using gcc?
password8I've IRC'd from a 0.9"crt
banandanause coir
password8could not see the text though
kmciaI seriously do want a small case-size grow
kmciapeople do it
banandanarun a huge drum of nutrients through it
kmciabut I got so many other projects
banandanakmcia: have you ever seen a 30lb/season grow op?
ThePendulum_abc_: I was using sduino, saw sdcc and avr and what not fly past, I reckon gcc is in there somewhere
kmciabanandana: not in person
kmciasdcc for avr? neat
password8theres only likw 100 quadrillion mosquitos
ThePendulumkmcia: I don't know what the avr part is used for
banandanayou need big lights kmcia, and the acidity levels of the soil matter.
kmciamore compilers = more betterer
tomeaton17kmcia: yeah
tomeaton17But I need to 3d print it
kmciaZeroWalker: Arduino uses avr-gcc by default. I dunno about making it use anything else. but I think the various "Board support packages" could in theory install a different compiler
kmciaI'd love to have an arduino form factor 8051 board just for shits
kmciatomeaton17: it sounds like a relatively good idea. you probably won't get resolution to stencil fine pitch SMD legs individulaly, but that's ok with reflow generally
banandanakmcia: I've also seen a dude with a homemade box
kmciaanyway I don't know how to do this conversion :/
banandanathat was lined with foil on the inside
kmciaApple uses clang for some of their embedded cortex-M stuff
kmcianot surprising
banandanaand it was used to grow
banandanapretty small form factor for a home setup :)
kmciaLLVM is great... richest company in the world funds compiler development that everyone benefits from, across many langs
kmciaC, C++, ObjC, Swift, Haskell, Rust, various JS JITs, etc
kmciamy whole flat is under 500 sq ft and most of it's filled with computer junk :|
joe_zkmcia, sounds like my bedroom
kmciahaskell on AVR... rofl. let's make it happen
bart416I kind of laughed badly
kmciajoe_z: yeah it looks like a tornado made of computer equipment and research papers has come through
bart416Well, was understandable though, but to an EE this one is funny.
bart416An unstable opamp
bart416And then you ask what it's driving
bart416330 nF capacitor, lol
ZeroWalkerah, well gcc is a good compiler isn't it?
bart416It isn't
joe_zZeroWalker, eh, it works...
bart416LLVM is a thousand times better in every possible way.
joe_zwell, x86 works
_abc_bart416: yes but it has some new-software bugs
bart416VCC++ is brilliant compared to GCC.
_abc_What is vcc+?
bart416MSVC's compiler
_abc_bart416: anatema!
bart416If you want to see something spectacular, Intel's compiler can do some fancy stuff. (And is based on MS's as far as I can see)
_abc_Intel's compiler is supposed to be very good.
bart416It is
hackkittenICC based on MSVC? Since when? O.o
bart416The Intel Fortran compiler is beyond believable.
_abc_Which is unsurprizing, since they make the damn cpu's
hackkittenMSVC doesn't even support C99
bart416hackkitten, dunno someone told me that once at some seminar :S
kmciaMSVC recently got a new backend, I think it's either based on or inspired by LLVM
_abc_bart416: don't believe everything you are told at seminars :)
kmciaa bunch of technically broken code becaume absolutely broken
bart416Heheh, true
kmciathat's why you don't undefined behavior, kids
_abc_kmcia: ahh "inspired", as in, "inhaled"? :)
bart416But Intel's compilers their output speaks for itself.
kmciayeah icc is really really good
hackkittenACTION mostly spends her time on the GCC side of the fence :)
bart416Clean machine code, very efficient.
kmciai wish the LLVM -> C output still worked
kmciathen we could target ANY micro with Rust and additionally get icc optimizations, etc
kmciait bitrotted though :(
bart416And if you tell it what it can attempt to run in parallel (e.g. loops where there is no interdependence between cycles), then things get very interesting.
_abc_hackkitten: there is no fence. And on the dark side you can frequently find very very familiar pieces of code... which jumped the fence...
kmciaGHC can still compile to C, but they tossed out the high perf C backend w/ the awful hacks
kmciaawful hacks meaning a 4,000 line perl script that post processes the assembly output of gcc
kmciaknown as the Evil Mangler
bart416ICC managed to get runtime down from tens of minutes to less than half a minute with a few pragma lines, lol
kmciawhich pragmas?
_abc_I've been reading up on Rust with all this hype. It sounds like a source language which forces developers to write sane code :) This is it's main advantage? :)
bart416Uhm let me check again
kmcia_abc_: I see it as C++ without all the historical baggage, and with more safety
hackkitten_abc_: Rust is a language written by poor C++ devs who have never used Ada
kmciait's also got a bit of ocaml/haskell flavor, especially if you look under the surface syntax
kmcia_abc_: many of the features (pattern matching, modules, etc) are useful even when you're writing unsafe { } code
kmciaI've written loads of rust and have used the lang since 0.6
spludHeh, I remember Sony playstation development required a dongle to run a sony specific mangler. All code was compiled with gcc, but you couldn't process it without a parallel port dongle (at the time).
kmciait was very very different then
kmciain fact the original idea for the lang was more like "better Go" with some erlang rather than "better C++". it used to have per-thread garbage collection for example
kmciaand green threads
kmciaall long gone
_abc_splud: yes, those were the times when the GPL SHOULD have strarted addressing the 'signed code you can't run without keys' issue which also plagues Android now.
kmcianow it basically compiles to native code same as C++
spludI wrote a protected mode emulator for the dongle <g> This was back in the days of DOS prompts...
kmciasplud: hehe, nice
kmciathat's PS1?
_abc_splud: what was PS using for a cpu? R10000 ?
spludYea, first gen Playstation dev.
spludI don't recall.
bart416kmcia, ah it was the old version that used pragma statements
bart416I ended up solving it with cilk_for instead
spludI wasn't actually the PS dev, was a tools guy.
kmciacilk is neat
spluddeveloped libraries and such.
bart416but be sure to use mathimf.h instead of math.h as well
kmciawhat's that
spludgotta run. Back later.
spludFound a youtube video of the speech synth. It's almost Stephen Hawking.
bart416Intel looked at the standard math libraries and thought they were crap, so they gave it their own shot
bart416It's uhm quick :P
hackkittenreal math is done in FORTRAN~
bart416hackkitten, yes :)
spludWishing I'd found this IC weeks ago, could have replicated the ROM out into a table on an AVR and made a little dongle for my son to use for halloween.
kmciayall can label me the rust fangirl, it's accurate, but i don't think the lang is perfect, in fact I could bitch about it all day...
bart416I write a lot of code to run on the university's clusters, and all of that is in Fortran :)
spludThough we don't have a wheelchair (much less an electric one).
kmcia"There are only two kinds of languages: the ones people complain about and the ones nobody uses." -- Bjarne Stroustrup
_abc_ this looks crazy. Note lots of small fans in the 'feet'.
_abc_kmcia: heh that is true.
kmciaalso. someone should make a non-lazy dialect of haskell
kmcialol wow.
kmcia> daily mail
kmcia> russia
kmcia> dubai
kmcia> concept renders
_abc_Yes but one can follow up the link elsewhere.
bart416But really <3 ICC
r0b-can OLED suffer from Burn In?
r0b-how long does it take?
joga"expected in 2018 and that users require no prior flying experience" haha
jogasounds legit
_abc_r0b-: >1000 hours. More than a lightbulb lasts
kmciaI guess if it's highly automated
jogalet the funds pour in, then silence
kludgejoga: this is Russia after all. They have a different notion about safety than we do.
kmciathen this might only be a bad idea rather than a catastrophically bad idea
_abc_joga: it's a self driving police copter eh. It knows the way to jail from anywhere.
r0b-so leaving a phone with an OLED screen on as a clock would take forever for it to burn in?
_abc_Well with some care the umpteen little fans that thing has should be more reliable than a quadcopter betting all it's got on NONE of those engines or props quitting
_abc_A quadcopter with one missing blade or engine is a noncopter.
jogaI think I've read about at least two or three similar "flying personal vehicles" that require "no flying experience", and were never heard of again after brief publicity
cart_manHi everyone ... Is there a formula that goes V = I/C ?
kludger0b-: if you run it at half brightness it will take MUCH longer to burn in. And display design tricks can make the burn in even across the face
kludgecart_man: C is charge or capacitance or something else?
_abc_joga: they flew a self piloting one in the Gulf somewhere recently, Dubai too?
bart416_abc_, upside down it could function as lawnmower.
r0b-I have the display at the lowest brightness.
joga_abc_, dunno, it's been a while since I read about such things
_abc_bart416: the blades do not protrude, unlike on a quad where they do
jogato my mind they're still laughably unrealistic, but hey, I don't mind if someone gets a working one made
r0b-Honestly I am not concerned as its a phone I no longer use so if I kill the screen I kill it lol.
_abc_The strange folding wing is interesting imo
bart416Ceiling fan on a hot day? :P
kludgeRussians will drink even more with such devices available.
_abc_ joga
_abc_Volocopter == Daimler
jogagermans you say..
jogathen it might work!1
_abc_Note 18 rotors. Not 4. Never 4.
jogabut still, years away it seems
_abc_joga: it just flew?!
bart416And knowing it was designed by Germans you'll probably only need one rotor for it to work.
bart416And it'll have quadruple redundance on the redundance.
joga_abc_, the other ones flew too, but were never practical
_abc_bart416: nah, but it comes with the 'Check Engine' light hard wired 'on'
_abc_Like VW do it...
bart416Nah VW it'll just lie about the check engine light really.
_abc_"car passed a farting pig" - light check engine lamp
bart416It'll only show the check engine light when a car inspector checks it.
_abc_They should simply upgrade the check engine light to "bring wallet to service" icon.
synx508i've had one german car ever, it was very comfortable but the least reliable car I've ever owned
cart_mankludge, Yes it usually gets integrated but I dont know where V = I/C + V comes from
kludgesynx508: was it a BMW 7-series?
joganow here's a personal flying thingy... (and some crazy person)
_abc_synx508: the check light is nothing to do with reliability.
electrobotjoga just linked to Flyboard® Air Test 1 - YouTube
cart_manV = I/C + Vinit rather
_abc_I know people who refurbish imported cars and apparently the check engine light is very common, so common that it is ignored :)
synx508_abc_, well, if you want the light to go out you have to make it go out somehow, which means some kind of maintenance even if that's plugging in the thing that resets the light
kludgecart_man: and what IS C here?
cart_mankludge, Its a capacitor
kludgesynx508: The 7 series is way less reliable! You did okay!
_abc_synx508: indeed, the thing that resets the light for $20 is important.
kludgecart_man: It is capacitance in farads or it is charge in coulombs? Because these things are related but they are not the same and C gets used for both at times.
_abc_synx508: and it's because of that that nobody is in any hurry to fix the reason(s) which light the dash lamp, such as farting pigs.
synx508a friend just had her 1 series eat a timing chain
kludgecart_man: current is change in charge.
_abc_1er is old. no?
kludgesynx508: That's no good.
_abc_Old enough to predate engine check lights.
kludgeNo, 1 series is new design, totally new engine. I have never actually seen one apart.
_abc_Damn that number reuse. BMW do it all the time. 3 series is at it's 3rd reincarnation?
kmciabart416: so why does mathimf.h exist separate from math.h? does it deviate from IEEE?
synx508I think they've used all the numbers now
_abc_synx508: come on, maybe 1 digit ones. I mean, look at firefox. Incrementing like an elevator.
tomeaton17kmcia: Yeah, I am going to see how it turns out. My company has a laser cutter so if this is not good enough will use that
kmciatomeaton17: nice
kmciagood luck!
kmciaI think it will be good eough for hobby / proto assembly, where you can deal with fixing a few bridges manually
bart416kmcia, it only performs well on intel CPUs.
kmciaa lot of people use no stencil and just squirt paste along the whole row of pads
bart416See it a bit like BLASS, it only makes sense if you have a platform specific implementation.
kmciabart416: fair enough
bart416Or at least I suspect that's why.
ZeroWalkerisn't it possible to get some kind of hardware interrupt when a signal occurs on a pin on stm32, as reading constantly seems to be so damn slow for me;s
cart_mankludge, Ok im relatively sure its for the Capacitors value though.
_abc_ZeroWalker: yes there's interrupt on change
cart_mankludge, Ok no I am completely sure
ZeroWalkeroh there is?
ZeroWalkerthat's awesome
kmciaZeroWalker: for sure
kmciaI thin you can set it for level-trig or edge-trig, either direction
ZeroWalkerhow do i access that feature
kmciain fact. Arduino supports this
kmciabut beware that page is for AVR Arduinos, the STM32 will differ a bit
ZeroWalkerdoes the arduino do this via hardware, or does it do some software cheat to allow it?
_abc_ZeroWalker: hw
kmciathe AVR lets you set an interrupt for pin changes
kmciaso does STM32
kmciado you know about how interrupts work?
_abc_ ZeroWalker not necessarily the exact stm32 you use but search for the terms in there
kmciaremember, do as little as possible in your interrupt handler. especially don't sleep or do anything that takes a long time
tomeaton17You can setup with CubeMX if you are using that
kmciausually you just set a flag for the main loop to handle
ZeroWalkerthing i found weird is if i read about stm32 it shows these functions that ppl use, but it's not what's available in Arduino, so i don't know what they use, is there some stm32 specific compiler thingy?
tomeaton17Are you using stm32duino?
_abc_ZeroWalker: stm32 is a mcu, Arduino which uses stm32 uses a subset of the available functions.
kmciayou can think of Arduino like a tiny "OS" that runs on multiple chips including AVR and ARM
kmciait provides a level of hardware abstraction and portability
kmciaand convenience for beginners
tomeaton17yeah 3d printer doesn't have fine enough resolution
tomeaton17Would be fine for 1206, but nothing smaller
nullifieroh snap, the bears got a hold of btc again
nullifierup 5%
kmciaisn't that bulls not bears
nullifieryeah lol
nullifierACTION not awake
_abc_ -> APIs suggests there is no native support for interrupts in the Arduino ide / api system as supplied.
_abc_well the Arduino interrupt business in general is a mess. Very touchy stuff, once people link in some nice floating point and synchronous foreground serial code in isrs.
kmciayou know, that bull sculpture in wall st was a legitimate piece of pro-capitalist guerilla street art by an immigrant... the "fearless girl" that all the #woke feminists went crazy for was an advert for a mutual fund... from a company that pays women less than men
kmciaidiots obsessed with semiotics
kmciawho can't deal with the grim meathook realities of life
_abc_Hmm Mini Maple was ported to stm32. Interesting.
_abc_I never used Maple, should look into it a bit.
kmciaooh neat
kmciawhat wuold you do with it
_abc_ ZeroWalker this is exactly what you need imho
kmcia"synchronous foreground serial code in ISRs" <-- ;__;
kmciai love it when arduinoobs gratuitously use floating point for the simplest tas
_abc_ZeroWalker: one thing: iirc you need to enable certain peripheral clocks in the stm32 to make this work, you need to read up on exactly how to do it, I don't know.
kmciaotoh STM32F3 has a FPU
^7heopeople have no education; no idea
kmciaman, I wish I could play with that toshiba mcu with the gpu
tomeaton17How big is stm32duino compared to hal?
kmciamaybe I can root my fitbit watch. I already found a way to crash it simply by nmap
Shawn186is it 4 1ohm resistors to make 0.22 ohm?
_abc_kmcia: evil.
Shawn186in parallel?
_abc_Shawn186: 0.25
^7heoheck, they don't even realize when there's an OS or not
Shawn186in parallel or in series?
_abc_Shawn186: parallel.
Shawn186okay, I did that, all in parallel, and I am getting 1.3 ohms
_abc_Shawn186: short the probes on the meter and read that value, substract from 1.3ohms
_abc_Also wiggle the probe bananas in the dvm to make good contact, and turn the selector wheel a bit forward and backwards to clean the contacts.
Shawn186ah 1 ohm on the probes
Shawn186so around .33?
_abc_Probably 0.25 exactly +/-10% at most
Shawn186okie, good enough for this voltage step up
_abc_0.22 to 0.28
_abc_Shawn186: MC34063?
Shawn186 page 5
_abc_Yeah I know it
Shawn186now I gotta get a 1300pF cap
_abc_You can use 1nF
kludgecart_man: Well, there is V= 1/C * [integral of I with time] dt.
Shawn186for 1300pF?
_abc_Shawn186: yes. 30% faster :)
Shawn186so a 102 ceramic cap should do?
cart_mankludge, Yes but it confuses me cause how does one know that the integral form will look like that without a Formula ? Is that just the assumed form?
_abc_ anyone used these people?
_abc_cart_man: if the current is constant [integral I]dt is just I*t.
Shawn186perhaps a poly-film capacitor
_abc_I wonder if they really set up the lines to make 6 layer pcbs in 3-4 days for a one off 100x100
_abc_Well 10
_abc_Or if it ends up in a long wait.
_abc_That's crazy short for such a job imo.
nullifierkmcia: That is so true on grim meathooks
_abc_I've never used 6 layers. I carefully escaped using 4 layers using repeated (ad nauseam) redesigns.
kludge_abc_: some of the factories do 6-layer stuff all the time and they just put it into the normal production stream. You pay more, they put it closer to the front.
nullifier6 layer isn't unusual
nullifier14 is
kmciathe new fitbit watch is 10 layers
_abc_kludge: still, they have to fit it in the flow at the last minute? I assume some wizards can do it with tweaked software.
nullifierAll Reconyx trailcameras use a 12 layer. it's pure insanity
kludge_abc_: You pay them enough, they put someone else's job on hold and put yours on the machine.
tomeaton17There are military spec devices that have 35 layer boards
kludge_abc_: I pay as little as possible, so they put my jobs on hold for everyone else's.
nullifierhaha yeah I've seen some aviation stuff that was 30
kludgenullifier: And some of those layers were different thickness than the others and the impedance between some were controlled too, I bet.
tomeaton17Apparently they put components inside the board aswell which is pretty cool but imagine servicing that
nullifierOh lord, at least.
nullifierone was three boards bonded together after a test
nullifierI remember that being in the spec and they called us and were like 'wtf'
kludgetomeaton17: in the case of capacitors, inductors, and resistors, sometimes the board IS the component.
tomeaton17Yeah, like printed carbon resistors but if something broke in the middle of layer 20 then ur buggered
kludgeMy wood is at the international gateway in Winnipeg!
nullifiertrace inductors are pretty common arent they
_abc_kludge: you use those guys? jcb?
Shawn186_abc_, I found a 1004pF poly film cap, is that close enough?
bobo1on1transmission line effects of the boards is a thing you have to deal with often
_abc_Shawn186: sure!
nullifiertomeaton17: Yeah, and then your wave operator pulls them out of the wave pallet and throws them in a rinse before they even have time to cool down a few degrees
nullifierthat cost us about, oh... 70 grand? I think
Shawn186_abc_, or what about 1500?
bobo1on1I had an intern design a board of a boost converter, with a rather long trace between the inductor and the diode, some ringing showed up there
kludge_abc_: I don't. We mostly use Advanced PCB at work and to be honest I have started using them for my personal stuff too for larger runs.
_abc_bobo1on1: instead of fighting them, let's use them! Antenna coupling simplifies routing!
tomeaton17Damn thats an expensive mistake
kmciamicrowave stuff often uses distributed element filters
_abc_bobo1on1: you asked for that or did he?
bobo1on1he did it wrong
tomeaton17Im an intern aswell and just got my first board manafactured... time to see what I have done wrong
_abc_Small ferrite bead usually cures that as a patch.
bobo1on1there was plenty of space on the board to do it right
kludge_abc_: Advanced charges me around five times as much to do boards with hard gold fingers as the Chiense guys charge to do boards with gold-looking fingers, though.
bobo1on1just put the diode next to the inductor, and put the caps right after that
_abc_kludge: well said
bobo1on1not with a 30mm trace
nullifiersend it to EEvblog, apparently he's doing critiques now
_abc_bobo1on1: 2MHz?
tomeaton17I am seriously regretting using 0602 parts
kludge_abc_: well, it's annoying because I am competing with people selling stuff with fake gold.
bobo1on1_abc_: 600 kHz or so
kludgetomeaton17: Well, now you know!
_abc_bobo1on1: then 30mm should not matter much?
bobo1on1it is on the switching transients of the boost converter
tomeaton17I don't think it will be too bad with a stencil, but I haven't had one made yet
_abc_bobo1on1: of course.
nullifieryes, please no 0602, or 0204
nullifierprogramming footprint nightmare
kludge_abc_: not much but some. Worse with high-Z stuff of course, and really annoying if you have high current lines next to signal lines.
_abc_bobo1on1: one puts a small smd ferrite element on the trace next to the transistor/ic drain?
_abc_bobo1on1: or not. Or a cap. Or a RC.
bobo1on1I guess you could do that if you need your trace to be that long
_abc_bobo1on1: if it is about saving the design as is
nullifieralthough supposedly the new universal instruments pnp can do 0102s on the 38 head
nullifierI can't even see these things and it can pick up 38 and place them faster than you can blink
bobo1on1yes, but that was not needed, half the board was empty anyway
_abc_bobo1on1: I find even ltspice likes smpsu's more if I add a damper RC at the resonant node. Simulation runs 3x faster.
tomeaton17Has anyone used the seeedstudio manufacturing service?
nullifierI hae
nullifierthey're good but slow af
tomeaton17What is the pricing like?
bobo1on1I once bought a buck converter from ebay, but it was a single layer board, do not ever use that for a switching converter
nullifieryou generally get what you pay for
bobo1on1I saw 2 volts peak to peak ringing on the output
kmciabe.cause you need a gnd plane?
bobo1on1the grounds where all over the place
tomeaton17I meant how much would you be paying /u
kmciacheapest china product
bobo1on1there was a 100n through hole cap near the switching converter, with a nicely looped ground trace to the input
Shawn186_abc_, are the plain number capacitors just uF?
_abc_Shawn186: usually no.
_abc_Shawn186: plain number means?? Like 103?
_abc_Shawn186: that is code for 10 * 10^3 pF
_abc_100 will be 100pF normally
Shawn186oh lovely
_abc_But note 101 is also 100 pF...
Shawn186I dont have any poly film caps with 101 o.O
_abc_They are rare :)
_abc_Ceramics are more likely
Shawn186yea, just found some
_abc_Where do you use 100pF caps in a MC34063 converter?
kludgeACTION goes off to glue things together.
Shawn186its in the schematic to ground
_abc_Shawn186: hmm?
Shawn186the schematic
Shawn18696 pF close enough?
_abc_Shawn186: the "100" cap is 100uF
_abc_Shawn186: also the 330 one is 330uF
Shawn186. . .
_abc_That is an ommission there in the schematic, BUT, note the electrolytic symbol.
Shawn186can I use electrolytics?
_abc_Also mind polarity and voltage, you need 35V or more on output.
_abc_Yes they are electrolytics.
Shawn186ohwait, what electrolytic symbol
Shawn186_abc_, I'm putting 3v in, and expecting 6v out
_abc_The cap symbol for Ci and Co is different from the one for Ct
_abc_Shawn186: that won't work so well. Not with this chip
_abc_How much output current do you need.
Shawn186ive been busting my ass on this all night trying to get it done
Shawn186all I need is 30mA to 120mA current
_abc_Sorry about that, the ic is really weak at low supply voltage.
_abc_That may be possible.
Shawn186so it will be pulling double that
_abc_It will be pulling 3x that.
_abc_But: 170uH needs adjusting, R2 needs adjusting
Shawn186weak... its my last chance for this immediate project
Shawn186I just adjusted the inductor to 170 from 260
_abc_MC34063 has some problems at low voltage really.
_abc_Yes, like huge losses and high saturation voltage on Q1
Shawn186can it output 6V well?
_abc_At very low current
Shawn186like my requirements?
_abc_Perhaps. Note it's a 1.5A switch you want 120mA
_abc_And the inductor should be adjusted per formula?
Shawn186what 1.5s switch?
_abc_peak current in Q1
Shawn186where is the switch for that?
_abc_Q1 is the "switch"
Shawn186how should I adjust this to accomidate for low voltage..
mitmf/msg SopaXorzTaker :)
_abc_R2 needs to be 3.6k
Shawn186r2 I was told to change to 8.2k
_abc_3.6k for 5V out.
Shawn186what about 6v out
_abc_Who told you 8.2k?
Shawn186thats better
Shawn186someone here
Shawn186around 3:00am MDT I think
_abc_Yeah tell please the someone to read the datasheet? There are examples which address this solution... and it's not 8.2k
_abc_You want +6V out right? Not -6V?
_abc_Shawn186: one more thing: that datasheet shows ALL chip pins reversed left to right. Pin 1 is at right top in the drawings. On the IC it is at top left as usual
majukMiyu: I was just thinking the same thing.
_abc_Shawn186: be careful with this, use pin numbers on normal DIP, do not assemble 'as shown' in the ds.
_abc_ACTION wonders where MDT is
Shawn186I know, I'm not going to assemble as shown
Shawn186going to use small pieces of insulated wire
Shawn186_abc_, mdt is colorado
_abc_I once made one of those things as shown. Had to bends the pins backwards to make it work.
_abc_Was perfboard not real pcb but still a pain
_abc_Happens all the time.
_abc_That ds is drawn WRONG.
Shawn186what ds?
_abc_ds = datasheet
Shawn186what datasheet?
_abc_MC34063 datasheet
_abc_ACTION gives himself the infinite patience award
ThePendulumhm what charset do those 16×2 displays actually use, I get all sorts of japanese characters
bobo1on1that is a horrible ic imho
ThePendulumI guess I have the 7-bit ASCII subset Japanese variant
Shawn186ah, I have the SP34063
nullifierThePendulum: worth more bitcoin
Shawn186_abc_ left :(
majukYea, you kinda let him ramble on about the wrong part for 15 minutes.
majukI mean, similar, but wrong.
Shawn186its the same part
majukI'm just over here with my popcorn.
Shawn186what was he talking about with the inductor?
majukNo clue.
majukI was way late to the party, so I don't know waht you guys were talking about outside that switching converter.
Shawn186page 5
Shawn186building that, except to take input from 3V and output 6V
Shawn186I hope hes wrong about the inductor..
corecodeif i want to use a 2 cell lipo battery together with usb
corecodewhat's the best approach?
corecodeboost + linear charger?
corecodeusb type-c + PD to negotiate 9V + linear charger?
corecodeintegrated switch mode charger?
mowciusYou want to charge a 2S battery via USB?
mowciusWhat kind of capacity battery?
corecodei guess maybe 1000mAh
kcrowkaw !
flybackACTION has a 20,000 usb battery
flybackBMCC corecode
Miyumaw~ o/
flybackTAKES LIKE 20 hrs to charge on 1a or so
flybackACTION bites enriq 
enriqACTION puts a TVS from flyback to ground
kmciaI have a 10 Ah
kmciapretty handy
kmciaI used it to power costume lights on the playa
kmciaamong many other uses
enriqon the "playa"?
flybackI figure even the worlds shittiest usb battery can probably power super low power mcu's for days
kmciayes. specifically, the dry lake bed where burning man is held
kmciahav'net been to burning man in a long time, but i went there for 4th of july
kmciathere's an informal gathering for the 4th
enriqI didn't know you used "playa"
kmciano tickets, no rules, few if any assholes looking to network their professional brand
kmciait's fun out there
kmciayou can drive 110 mph in any direction
kmcia(that was in my SUV loaded with crap; probably much faster in a sports car)
kmciaabout the only thing disallowed is fireworks, because the county fire marshall WILL shut it down
kmciaactually just as we were leaving there were some wildfires from idiot kids setting off fireworks in dry scrub brush kind of terrain
flybackyeah people are stupid sometimes
flybackdo they allow steel wool spinners
flybackyou should do some something
flybackpretty cool the effect
kmciayeah we did that
kmciaand sparklers
kmciaand a few people did bring fireworks
electrobotflyback just linked to (steel wool spinning' - Google Search)
kmciabut if not for that "rule" it would be a total fireworks orgy
flybackOWNS YOUR "CANUCK".....................................................................................CANUCK!
flybackACTION DROPKICKS blocky 
kmciathe rule isn't enforced by anyone in particular but you imagine that if you get people in trouble they will not be happy
kmciasparklers + long exposure photography is fun
kmciathe playa itself is very non-flammable but the surrounding area, different story
flybackSOME DIPSHIT around here did them over some historical building
flybackI want to knock his teeth out
flybackonly reason I did them in the yard for the neighbor kids was we had 3 consequtive mega storms, you couldn't light the grass with thermite
e36freakit's cool
e36freakplenty of asbestos for fire retarding
flybackno he torched the building
flybackit's gone forever
flybacksome people are just too fucking stupid to ever use fire
venthe1650Hello. can someone recommend me voltage regulator suitable for 6-7V input and 5V output with current rating 500mA ?
tawrventhe1650: literally anything including a 5 cent 7805
venthe1650I checked 7805 but it has 2v dropout which means that when I input 6V i can reliably get 4V out
archivistyou need an LDO version
archivistor better use a switchmode
phinxy*ordering something from China* Now we wait..
synx508Is it a nuclear first strike on North Korea?
tawrat 6v input you will probably need a LDO 5v regulator though
tawr(forgot to press enter)
phinxythis one is cool
phinxyoops does not meet your requirements
phinxyWhat about this?
flybackthey have .5 dropout ldo's
flybackprobably lower now
flyback7805 are still good for ac supplies etc
flybackvery hard to kill
flybackup to 37v input
venthe1650 looks good
venthe1650but I would prefer something that is available in through hole
venthe1650i dont need it for commercial use :)
JackiesHello Everyone
JackiesIs there a channel for HAM radio users? or I can immediately ask in here?
DoYouKnowthere is ##hamradio
DoYouKnowbut I am banned from there
tawrmy suggestion is go to amazon or ebay and just type in "5v ldo regulator" and see what the most common one is
JackiesAh cool, thanks SpeedEvil and DoYouKnow
SpeedEvilAlso, actually read the specs.
SpeedEvil'LDO' means three volts to some sellers.
venthe1650tawr, that was actually what i needed :)
SpeedEvil(and ~1V to some actual 'proper' semiconductor makers
venthe1650found lm2940ct this one which fits my needs :)
tawrventhe1650: :)
spludwhat sort of current is needed from the regulator?
spludACTION just completed breadboarding the speech synth IC, moving on to putting together an amp, then I'm going to get this to spit out some speech.
spludhopefully, would be bummed if it coughed up smoke instead.
venthe1650i need 0.5A from regulator
cen5848hi password2. Is that your password? :)
phinxyId like some minimal speech synthesiser library for small microcontrollers
cen5848phinxy for Arduino might be your solution
gurkit is a software implementation of the Texas Instruments speech synthesis architecture (Linear Predictive Coding) from the late 1970s / early 1980s, as used on several popular applications:
gurkia lot of stuff from 70s/80s seems to be reused lately
gurkibut then actually some arduino isnt all too much different in cpu/memory constraints
DoYouKnowthis is interesting:
DoYouKnowI would love to see recordings of spectra from old 1950s and 1940 broadcast television
DoYouKnowor I guess 1950s ?
DoYouKnowthat's when it really started
DoYouKnowwow, NTSC standards have prevailed since the 1940s
DoYouKnow6 MHz allocation
DoYouKnowin this regard ATSC was really a big change
DoYouKnowafter a half a century of NTSC
DoYouKnowwe gotta figure out the ionosphere in more detail so we can scale the time domain :)
DoYouKnowlisten to some 1950s radio stations :)
DoYouKnowbut not sure the TV thing would work even then
DoYouKnowha, I like this one with the purple tape and nice housing for the capacitor and and matching:
DoYouKnowthe last one on the page
DoYouKnowlooks really nice
DoYouKnowthe 5th one is cool too
DoYouKnowthat loop is huge
DoYouKnowlooks heavy
DoYouKnow145 MHz, that's near the band of the ISS isn't it?
DoYouKnow0.5m, I meant
DoYouKnow"The ISS radio transmits signals at 145.80 MHz and receives signals at either 144.49 or 145.20 MHz, depending on its orbital location
beanbag-so does oscar-7 afaik
beanbag-but the fcc made a excemption
beanbag-no one is going to say no to a dead satalite that came back to life 21 yrs later
beanbag-no one is that heartless
beanbag-except mabye TrumpIsRaging
DoYouKnowoscar-7 has an interesting history involving communism apparently
DoYouKnowin poland
beanbag-basically after 21 yrs the canucked battery finally disconnected itself from the bus and stopping the short circuit
TrumpIsRagingbeanbag-: I'm laughing my ass off at your silly corrupt warmonger country :P
TrumpIsRagingthat's what Kevin Spacey said
ozzzywho is that guy
beanbag-kevin spacy came out as gay
beanbag-I was laughing cause he reminded me
ozzzyso I hear.... who is he
beanbag-the old dude
beanbag-house of cards
ozzzynever watched it
beanbag-how about the usual suspects
ozzzyI don't watch TV
TrumpIsRagingI need to play more Baldur's Gate on my tablet
ozzzyother than the news networks..... CBC, CTV and CNN Int'l
beanbag-im blown away by the quality of over the air stuff now
DoYouKnowvanishing on a beam of light
beanbag-I bought 4 decoder boxes for old tv's
beanbag-hook them up to small lcd's for a mini tv
beanbag-pretty nice
TrumpIsRagingbeanbag- you should get one of those FTA antennas
beanbag-I got a nice rotator for $20
beanbag-has a lna amp with 2 outputs too
TrumpIsRagingoh wow I remember those
DoYouKnowthere's so much streamed online now
beanbag-just not got around to hanging it
TrumpIsRagingdoes it still work?
beanbag-it's new
DoYouKnowyou can get m3u8 streams for almost everything
TrumpIsRagingthat's awesome
beanbag-not realy the same quality as the ones you rememeber
beanbag-but for $20
TrumpIsRagingwhere did you get it beanbag- ?
DoYouKnowFTA is cooler in some ways though
beanbag-I can hack around the flimsy
TrumpIsRagingman that is cool
redrabbitI have a motorized dish setup for TV
redrabbitquite amusing to use
beanbag-going to try it wiht my sdr
TrumpIsRagingI remember cranking the dial from one end to the other then waiting to see where the best signal was
redrabbitwhen i change channels the dish moves and stuff
beanbag-this has ir
TrumpIsRagingthen whipping the dial back to stop it
beanbag-so I am thinking
beanbag-it would be easy to write a sdr# plugin
beanbag-that talks to a ir dongle
beanbag-so the software can actually track the antenna
redrabbitah its one of theses cheap usb dongles that do dvb-t?
TrumpIsRagingyou can do pretty much anything through usb so yeah
beanbag-ill chat more in a bit, working on customer's pc remotely sorry
cen5848beanbag- I'm going to have to ask you use pastebin or something similar when posting such large content ;)
TrumpIsRagingok cya
beanbag-cen5848, bmcc
_abc_Scary pumpkins (the nerd edition)
beanbag-this one looks insteresting also
beanbag-non rotator but still insteresting
cen5848see ya
beanbag-oh yeah they also bought rights to memorex name so if you see that, same thing
beanbag-redrabbit, good point I didn't think of that but I think the rtl ir is only receive
beanbag-so bummer
beanbag-else you could probably use it to send ir signals to the antenna rotator
_abc_beanbag-: bedsprings like antennas (what you linked) are basically standard for ota digital tv
_abc_And usually you do not want to rotate it, it is quite wide as is. Like 30 degrees wide or so
_abc_ for the same money you get this, from the same source
_abc_What made you link that beanbag-? Just curious?
_abc_beanbag-: ?
beanbag-why I got the rotator
beanbag-cause that's what ollies had for $19
beanbag-I figured that cheap I could fudge it into something usuable
beanbag-we were discussing radios earlier
beanbag-it's a discount store
beanbag-refurb, closeouts, excess stock
nickromancerACTION punts beanbag- 
MartesZibellinaIs it possible to change to UEFI from BIOS on the same motherboard?
kmciatry ##hardware
kmciathis channel is more about transistors and microcontroller kind of stuff
spludAre those able to rotate 360 continuous, or just full tilt and you have to rotate it -359 to one degree over?
beanbag-MartesZibellina, newer boards for last 5? yrs are all uefi already they might just be set to default to bios mode
beanbag-yeah it won't go 360 or it would break wires etc
beanbag-even though the box says otherwise
beanbag-there's a auto reversing stop
spludWell, it depends on the connection inside.
spludif antenna wires are on brushes...
spludheh, motorized dish setup - so this is one of those big dishes the size of a patio umbrella?
beanbag-no about size of a normal umbrelle
ZeroWalkerdamn hsync, still pissed that i broke it and don't even know where it's broken -_-
ZeroWalkertried desoldering my cables that i hijack the signals with as well as clean it up a bit. but obviously that didn't do shit xd
spludMy father in law had one of those, mounted on large steel pipe (4" or 5" I think) in concrete in his backyard. Some years ago, I dismantled that for him since he was no longer using it (and motor stuff etc was all buggered).
kmciajosephson junctions are strange beasts
kmciaeven when there's no voltage across them, they will sustain a supercurrent
kmciabased on the difference between the wave functions on either side -- it's a form of quantum tunneling
kmciathey also act like inductors, for reasons I don't understand yet
kmciaand of course, if you put two in a loop then you have an extremely sensitive magnetic flux detector called a SQUID
kmciawhen I said "difference between" I meant phase difference
kmciaJ_s = J_c sin(\varphi_1 - \varphi_2)
kmciaanyone is welcome to join me in ##coopertronics if you're into superconducting circuits
password2the more i watch of cody's lab , the more the guy impresses me
password2he goes 36hours just to plant some plants
password2non stop
darsieCody is the real mad scientist.
ZeroWalkerthis is the time when everyone is supposed to throw ideas on how i can troubleshoot the thing (without an oscilloscope)
darsieZeroWalker: DMM, piezo speaker
_abc_kmcia: why did you start a new channel for superconducting things? There's #physics ?
_abc_Just curious
darsieThere's ##physics and ###physics .
_abc_wow, triple ###
kmcia##physics is too general
kmciait's also full of high school / freshman people asking questions about newtonian physics
kmciathey haven't shown that much interest in this topic tbh.
ZeroWalkerdarsie, ;o?
darsieZeroWalker: I haven't read your issue, but I've used a piezo speaker to make signals audible.
darsiePerceivable to much higher frequencies than LEDs.
ZeroWalkermy problem is that i have (probably) broken the HSYNC signal on my Gameboy, it doesn't send any signal there, but everything else works fine, all other LCD signals as far as i can tell, and also the system runs fine it seems
ZeroWalkerSo if only the HSYNC is damaged somehow, i am hoping it actually is fixable, cause i would imagine if it was a real damage the other stuff would stop working as well
ZeroWalkerjust a guess thougj
beanbag-it could be
beanbag-the lcd itself is CANUCKED
beanbag-SMALL CRACK, bad driver etc
ZeroWalkerdoublt it's the LCD itself, it's connected separately, and i can hijack the signals with it disconnected just fine
password2ZeroWalker, you have nothing else to generate a signal with?
password2or nothing else to send the signal to?
ZeroWalkerwell i can either send the signals to the LCD or to a logic analyzer
password2dont have a tv?
ZeroWalkernot sure how i would connect a gameboy to a tv?
tawrZeroWalker: what are you trying to do exactly
tawrbecause you keep asking weird questions
ZeroWalkeris it really that weird to ask about troubleshooting the gameboy xd?
password2souds like hes trying to revive a gamboy
password2i thought you were working with ntsc?
rawtazcan someone help me understand this schematic for a relay: - it seems to me that 12+22, 11+21 and 14+24 are always connected. it also seems that depending on the relay being active or not, in the default state 12+22+11+21 are all connected together, and in the other state 11+21+14+24 are all connected. surely im misunderstanding something?
ZeroWalkerit works, but the hsync signal never occurs, so somewhere along the line it must be broken for that particular thing
TrumpIsRagingit's probably just because of Oct 31st
ZeroWalkeroh, nope, if i said something about ntsc i apologise
bobo1on1rawtaz: that seems about right
_abc_rawtaz: you got it right
password2well someone did , i just dont have the attention span to remember who did
bobo1on1it only has one dual throw contact
_abc_This is too good to be true? If it only was this simple.
ZeroWalkerlol, the important thing is that someone said it
bongofurywhats wrong with salt
bongofuryand why are you taking the daily mail with any sincerity? Are you some kind of Tory?
_abc_bongofury: it increases blood pressure and increases the risk for stroke and arterial problems in older people. Like me.
password2well _abc_ unless you have natural low blood pressure
bobo1on1ah probe girl is back
electrobotbobo1on1 just linked to Single-Ended or Differential Probe? Take the Mystery Out of Oscilloscope Probing - YouTube
_abc_The dm is not relevant and I am not English. dm has over 50 links per day, out of which like 3 are somewhat tangently relevant.
bobo1on1maybe I should get a differential probe
_abc_password2: Tends to be high in my family.
_abc_bobo1on1: if you already have a 2 channel scope you don't need a $200 differential probe unless you can afford it
_abc_bobo1on1: select A-B mode and calibrate the gain on one channel to cancel as much of common mode as possible.
_abc_Then you can use the probe tips only (grounds unconnected) to meter anything floating wrt ground, up to +/-600V from scope ground with usual 1:10 probes.
bobo1on1hm yeah but often I need to measure two channels
_abc_Get a 3 channel scope :)
_abc_ see 2nd pic from top down
bongofury_abc_ salt has no effect on mortality or cardiovascular health
bobo1on14 channel scope :P
_abc_bobo1on1: Philips! Fluke! Pain to fix! /me hides
bobo1on1rigol has a cheap one
_abc_bongofury: depending on whom you ask it has.
SpeedEvilACTION drops a 1000kg block of slt on bongofury.
SpeedEvil_abc_: A lot of the research about it is looking more and more equivocal as time goes on. Much like fat.
ozzzythat's a tonne of shit
bongofuryYou can slightly reduce your blood pressure by possibly 1 or 2 mm Hg by having a completely salt-free diet, which is linked to its own problems
_abc_SpeedEvil: yes, except if you have problems in the family and tend to be safe more than sorry.
bongofury_abc_ do you ask doctors or "The Daily Mail?"
ozzzyor you could enjoy life and go when it's your time
_abc_SpeedEvil: the problems are not really serious for me, yet. But consuming 8 cups of coffee per day for years in my late tweens did not help.
bobo1on1I'm sure everyone agrees on that not being healthy
rawtaz_abc_ / bobo1on1: so then the only use of those bottom part terminals (22, 21 and 24) is to not have to put two cables in the same terminal on the upper side, in case you wanted to? i thought at first, when looking at the side of the relay (physical) that it had TWO separate circuits, basically making it a dual relay (so there's two separate circuits with three terminals/connections each). but i suppose that isnt the case. its just surprising thou
_abc_ozzzy: you mean enjoy it a LOT today, and go tomorrow?
ozzzyif that's what happens... yep
SpeedEvilBlack coffee is almost certainly more healthy than any sugary beverage, from a health POV
ozzzymy whole career was fueled by coffee and junk food LOL
bobo1on1rawtaz: I assume they use a standard relay housing, and just connected the terminals to give you a choice
electrobotFuchikoma just linked to Dietary Salt Recommendations Don't Line Up with Recent Evidence - YouTube
bobo1on1sugary drinks have acid added to them so that you don't thrown up
ozzzythey used to say eggs were bad... now eggs are good.... fat was bad... now some fats are good... blah blah
ozzzyjust enjoy yourself
FuchikomaOr is it that acidic drinks have lots of sugar added to them so they're tastier?
bobo1on1fats are a lot better than carbohydrates
rawtazbobo1on1: yeah, this is a relay for mounting on a DIN so i suppose thats why. either way, you dont think there's any chance the schema is badly drawn or similar and that it's really a "dual" relay? i guess that's not likely.
bongofurythey proved that the Sugar Industry was responsible for bullshit science on fats
bobo1on1rawtaz: very unlikely that it's a dual relay
bongofurythey just straight paid doctors on trials, and doctors wrote what they said to write
rawtazbobo1on1: ok. thanks a lot for looking into it :)
SpeedEvilThe current thinking is that refined carbs are really, really bad, and foods high in nitrosamines are also probably bd.
rawtaz_abc_: you too, cheers
bongofurynobody ever called the 1960s "the decade of ethics"
SpeedEvilEverything else is not too bad.
Fuchikomaozzzy: If by "they" you mean reporters who don't understand science and hucksters pushing fad diets, then yes.
ozzzyFuchikoma, nope... neither
_abc_rawtaz: the dual relay would have the same pins but the 'bridges' would not be there, shorting pins, and there would be a second throw contact
FuchikomaThen you're wrong :D
_abc_rawtaz: it is common for the same pinout to be used for double and simple throw relays
ozzzyit's not me that's wrong
ZombieChickenFuchikoma: You're saying people with an interest in making money aren't telling the truth, or telling the whole truth?
FuchikomaZombieChicken: Shocking, right?
ZombieChickenEntirely. Don't mention that to anyone with heart problems
_abc_Hey, grey lies is what you are taught to tell your whole post childhood life long.
ozzzynever believe commercial advertisements
ozzzythey're all bullshit
_abc_never say never
ZombieChickenSome ads are somewhat true. Mainly when they are trashing someone else's product
rawtaz_abc_: yeah, but in this case you agree that it's not likely that its a dual relay, right? you just mean that they use the same "physical form factor" for both single and dual throw relays?
SpeedEvilZombieChicken: it doesn't hve to directly come to money - if someone has been pushing salt is bad their whole career saying 'welp, I was wrong', when they are only 10 years from retirement is hard.
ZombieChickenIt's no different than listening to someone tell a story in a bar. It might be true, just tone everything down about an order of magnitude
_abc_rawtaz: it's not dual but it shares the pinout of a dual one
SpeedEvilCarefully reading and understanding study design is unfortunately lost on many science journalists.
ZombieChickenSpeedEvil: Yeah. Ethics don't make money. Nor does common sense, or long-term planning
_abc_There's an inflation rate on words. Ad words especially.
rawtaz_abc_: roger
_abc_When you say you need 1000 pcs you actually mean 100
ZombieChicken_abc_: Depends on the situation
Principal8does electrolytic caps have a failure mode of increased capacitance, or will they always short when they fail=
_abc_It's the same in every domain. Too much information deprecated the value of information, and you need to adjust. Broadcast loudly so people hear you faintly?
_abc_Principal8: they have several failure modes, including what you suggested
ZombieChicken_abc_: Is it too much information, or too much useless information?
_abc_ZombieChicken: exactly
ZombieChickenFunny you mention that. I was reading "As We May Think" earlier today
ZombieChickenGood article for anyone interested
_abc_Like Web2.0 is "soothing" using lots of js and css to display nice colors and round corners with a total of 12 visible letters on a screen capable of displaying 8000 letters
MJCDim looking for a couple of premade products on the cheap and yes we've attended to largely all of the ethical concerns
_abc_ZombieChicken: please provide a link?
MJCDbasically stuff like hydro-turbines powered from your tap. we live on a strata and they have a private water pump for like 8 houses (right under my bedroom raah)
MJCDbut we dont pay for water
MJCDand we cant pay our electricity bills
_abc_MJCD: sounds like a plan.
_abc_Put one in your bathtub.
MJCDif I could also get a showerhead that does it that did thermal stuff as well that'd be awesome
_abc_You should be able to get at least 300W from a wide open usual water tap.
MJCDno we have really quite eco-friendly ways to deal with the water
MJCDthis as I say, we have a private pump
MJCDso its pretty insane pressure
_abc_Stupid question: what powers the pump?
_abc_Insane pressure = more than 300W!
cen5848_abc_ maybe it just rips the skin off when you take a shower. Guaranteed to be clean.
MJCDim not entirely sure but it clicks on every like 30 mins seemingly which is pretty loud
_abc_Yeah that could be a problem.
MJCDfor a few secs
_abc_>2 bars water pressure in shower is not a good thing
MJCDwhat you mean haha
_abc_Normally the thin hose limits it but without that it can be bad news.
_abc_MJCD: You realize the cut things with water jets, right?
_abc_Before that you can injure yourself with a strong water jet.
Sculptorhose thickness can limit flow, not the pressure
Sculptor_abc_, stick to electric circuits
gurkiwater jets <3
cart_manCan anyone please tell me where I can find good material on " linear and nonlinear circuits "? My prescribed book is one from 1987 and I can not find it anywhere
MJCDthough tbh
gurkicart_man: literally any electronics book?
MJCDgetting water jett'd just from having awesome water pressure
MJCDwhat a way to go!
ozzzycart_man, try Abebooks
tawr30psi vs 70,000psi is not a big deal at all
_abc_cart_man: what year EE?
MJCDanyway I figured some ali express stuff must exist or something
cart_manlast but there is things I havent seen before .. Tellegens theorem ?
tawrbtw _abc_ most house pressures in the USA are >100psi
MJCDbut I dunno about thermo/hydro combo gens for shower heads
MJCDthatd be the dream
_abc_tawr: murder!
cart_manTime-invarient and time-varying resistors ? Thats not on my books?
_abc_cart_man: this one?
tawr_abc_: :)
Sculptor_abc_, 2bar limit is also not correct. min pressure should be >1bar, max <5bar, recommended 3bar
cart_man_abc_, Yes that is exactly the one I need but can I download it?
MJCDSculptor, _abc_ have you seen the first Resident evil? it will be JUST like that lazor scene
Sculptorcan't recall it
_abc_cart_man: nope, looks like it's a $$$ book. Even used.
_abc_840 pages...
_abc_tawr: I am serious, 100psi into the eyes with a normal shower is reason for suing.
_abc_tawr: surely your shower heads bear labels along the lines of "do not point at eyes or genitals"?
tawrthey get pointed at genitals the most, _abc_
cart_manOk soo any other material that would be similar ?
tawrobviously the shower heads don't spray out 100psi and limit flow rate too. they aren't garden hose sprayers heh
gurkiask your prof?
_abc_cart_man: unlikely? Try to score some course notes from someone who did it before you? Finalists from last year?
gurkitheres a shitton of books around this topic
gurkibut how would we know which parts he focusses on
TheTrashWhat's everyone's go-to source for prototype boards? Been using the single-hole double sided ones but they're starting to annoy me, I really need 2 holes per island or even some sort of permanent breadboard, but cost seems to explode for anything but the regular single hole ones, even on Aliexpress.
cart_mangurki, Sorry man I have no idea where to even start looking... My books I have litteraly do not mention any of this
gurkicart_man: hit your library :)
gurkithis is the very thing i would do
_abc_cart_man: read the blurb on this page and it will give you an idea
Sculptor_abc_, 100psi can be the pressure on temp mixer's inlet. output pressure is much lower
_abc_cart_man: note that 1969 texts of this kind will have an aroma of mummies and elberberries.
TheTrashI'm considering having them made by a pcb service even, might be cheaper.
tawrTheTrash: oshpark and dirtypcbs
tawroshpark makes great boards inexpensively, dirtypcbs makes dirt cheap boards that work
TheTrashYeah that might be the way to go... would mean I'd have to CAD up or rip off a design from somewhere first, though.
TheTrashBut if I can't source something ready-made, I'll have to.
_abc_ cart_man if you like scribd (I don't)
cart_man_abc_, I really dont have a choice at the moment hahaha
_abc_ you could search more...
electrobot_abc_ just linked to (El Frijol: Basic Circuit Theory - Desoer & Kuh (1969) PDF)
codepython777I am looking for a mechanical switch that when pressed down extends down 5mm - how do I find this on the web to buy?
_abc_ codepython777 'switch travel 5mm' or 0.2in
codepython777_abc_: I am looking for a mechanical switch that will go on and press an electronic switch. The mechanical switch is not really a switch then? Perhaps I am looking for something else?
_abc_ hmm interesting
_abc_isolated inputs
tawrcodepython777: that doesnt make sense
tawrwhat are you trying to say
tawrwhat is an electronic switch
_abc_babble babble
tgeeky_abc_: there are some older, big scopes that have that too
tgeeky_abc_: usually used for power line scopes
_abc_More importantly, does it connect to an arduino codepython777 ?
_abc_tgeeky: yes, it's easy with valved/tubed scopes.
codepython777 - I want to replace the ellipse in this picture with a switch that goes down and presses the electronic swtich
electrobotcodepython777 just linked to (Flowchart Maker & Online Diagram Software)
_abc_*relatively easy
tgeeky_abc_: i wasn't referring to that old, but sure
tgeekyi don't know why that would be the case other than the high operating voltage of tubes
tawrwhat is a "mechanical switch" codepython777
tawrif you can push the first switch why do you not just touch the second one?
_abc_tgeeky: basically a fet or mosfet input with overvoltage on it is dead
codepython777tawr: The bottom part in that diagram is a switch on a board that is not mine - push button switch for 'reset'
_abc_tgeeky: a tube with overvoltage on it's grid may arc a bit and carry on
codepython777I've a box/enclosure on which I want to "extend the switch"
tawrcodepython777: uh, so you want an electromagnet solenoid to pop out and push the reset switch?
tawrjust run wires to the first switch, codepython777
tawrand solder them on, and run it to a switch outside
codepython777tawr: I would prefer a mechanical spring push button that just goes down and pushes the bottom part
tawrno reason to do any of this fuckery
tawryou just want a plunger
tawrit's not a damn switch stop saying it
codepython777exactly - its not a switch
tawrdrill a hole, and put a piece of plastic or a nail through the hole
codepython777what is this device called? With a travel of 5mm/
tawrit's not called anything
tawrit's just a stick
tgeekyplunger, linear actuator plunger, pushrod
tawrit's not a linear actuator lol
TrumpIsRagingSPDT ?
tawryou ignorant SLUT tgeeky
TrumpIsRaginger SPST
tawror, it's not a switch TrumpIsRaging
tgeekytawr: a linear actuator would work
tawrdid you not bother reading lol
tgeekybut its not what he wants
codepython777tawr: link?
tawrtgeeky: a 500ton hydraulic press would too
tawrcodepython777: go to your junk drawer
tawrfindsomething stick shaped
tawrdrill a hole
tawrplace stick into hole
tgeeky1) cut a hole in a box
tgeeky2) stick your dick in the box
ZombieChickentgeeky: that was the first two things I saw when flipping back to this window
zigggggyACTION eats ZombieChicken!
tawrACTION watches zigggggy turn zombie
tgeekyZombieChicken: good instructions on any day
zigggggytawr where is your halloween costume?!
tgeeky_abc_: I was very surprise dto see that was a sort of DIY probe
_abc_tgeeky: not as much diy as an app note 'idea' which needs more work to make it 'work'. Note comment on gimmick caps needed to stabilize it.
tawri got tired of it, tawrantula or docTAWR
zigggggybut it is halloween!!!!
tgeeky_abc_: still, if it can be made to work a 4 GHz probe is pretty amazing
_abc_ACTION scares zigggggy into silence using s swastika
_abc_tgeeky: 4GHz is the GBW of the amps. At gain 10x the max bw will be at most 400MHz
_abc_tgeeky: I'd say >40MHz uncompensated for that thing is not realistic.
tgeeky_abc_: oh, nevermind then
_abc_I find that >20MHz GBW opamps DO NOT belong on single sided pcbs.
_abc_Even with 2 sided there is trouble.
_abc_ nice tuff
SpeedEvilI tried to make a 1-sided board once, couldn't keep it klien.
tgeeky_abc_: I should have read mroe carefully. If it really was a 4GHZ probe, it would make no sense for it to end up being 1 megohm; my first thought was: I'd like this to be 50 ohms at the end so I can use it with a specan
_abc_ACTION wonders what spell corrector SpeedEvil uses
tgeeky_abc_: I think it's a topology reference
_abc_Klein bottle references are lost on me :)
HoolooBOO but then wouldn't it be klein?
SpeedEvilhackkitten: yes
Shawn186hi _abc_
tgeekyHoolooBOO: but the misspelling of klein <-> klien is more plausable than klien <-> clean
spludHeh, component tester ID
spludTO92 device as a NPN BJT with hFE of 1
spludand a diode between C and E.
tgeekysplud: is it a TL431?
tgeekyor similar voltage reference?
spludwha? Check printing - it's a TL431C
tgeekysplud: hah
_abc_Sounds about right
tgeekysplud: that's correct reading, the
spludbeen there, done that eh?
Shawn186_abc_, do I need to modify the inductor?
tgeekysplud: I too, was confused by that reading. I have a small collection of 431s now.
_abc_thyristors/triacs read strange on cheap component testers, the diffused gate resistor confuses the part tester
_abc_Shawn186: yeah
Shawn186_abc_, why?
spludFTR, was posting that behavior, not inquiring about part ID.
_abc_Shawn186: because. there's a formula for L in the datasheet. See @
tgeekysplud: i am kind of impressed with myself there, naming the part like that :o
bobo1on1_abc_: nice circuit
spludrummaging about for an LM386 or similar.
spludsome TO92 (unrelated) in a bin of stuff, so jammed them in the tester so I could put them where they belong.
_abc_Shawn186: try this, ignore the language, enter your data, click calculate
_abc_Shawn186: set Fmin 25kHz and Vripple 100mV
Johnjaythat circuit looks pretty involved. what's the calculatr for?
Shawn18678 micro henries??
_abc_minimum. Using 100 is ok
Shawn186using 100 is okay?
_abc_For your values, I used Vin=3 Vout=6 Imax=170mA Vripple=100mV Fmin=25kHz and got output: Rsc=0.32 ohm, Lmin=55uH
_abc_Imax 918mA
_abc_So using a 100uH inductor rated 1A should be okay
_abc_68uH too
Shawn186why so high?
_abc_0.918A peak current
bobo1on1hm I wonder if a plugged in broken power supply caused the buzz in my tube amp
Shawn186that is sure to kick this cellphone battery into overcurrent protection
_abc_That results from the way a smpsu works. This is not the current you measure.
_abc_It is supplied by Cin = 100uF
_abc_Also you can use 1.2k + 4.7k for voltage setting resistors.
_abc_As we discussed before.
_abc_ another 34063 calculator. Seems suspiciously similar to the previous one
spludbwahha. I knew I should have some of those. Have a tube of them ordered from DigiKey a few years ago.
ZeroWalkerfound someone that might have a guess of what could be broken, and a solution for it, something about a pulldown resitor to help a broken mosfet or something, might learn something from this nevermind the results;d
spludThis is why I buy crap I don't need RIGHT NOW. <g>
Shawn186so 180 ohm doesn'
Shawn186doesn't have to change?
Shawn186why does r1 suggest 2.4 instead of 2.2?
Shawn186*2.4k instead of 2.2k?
spludWho ever said hoarding doesn't pay off?
Shawn186where are you getting 1.2?
_abc_Shawn186: As I said, you can use 1.2k+4.7k
Shawn186why, thats not recommended by the page specs
_abc_it is recommended by the datasheet.
tgeeky_abc_: back to that picoscope link, i saw the picture of the insides... it seems only 2 of the 4 channels have full shielding?
_abc_tgeeky: that is not a picture, it is a 3d rendering of the board.
Shawn186then it must have gave you results different from 3v in, 6v out, 120Iout, Vripple 100mV, 25Khz...
_abc_No idea what is really going on inside
_abc_Shawn186: as I said, ignore the R1/R2 values, use 1.2K+4.7K for R1 and R2
tgeeky <-- that is a 3d rendering?
_abc_looks like it
tgeeky_abc_: dayum. the reflection on the metal chassis from the pc board...
tgeekythat's some attention to detail
_abc_Also the extreme channels left and right are shielded by the case
_abc_tgeeky: povray3 will happily render a hall of mirrors scene.
_abc_Try it
Evidlo[m]do all 18650s have vents?
_abc_tgeeky: pro tip: NOBODY makes black BNC connectors.
Shawn186I'm gonna have to change CT from 152 to 102
tgeeky_abc_: yeah, that was kind of weird.
_abc_tgeeky: search for 'kicad 3d board render' on google images. There are better ones.
tgeeky_abc_: someone does make black BNC connectors, but they are bnc<->sma adapters
tgeeky_abc_: that looks way more 3d rendered than the picoscope thing
_abc_zoom out
_abc_CTRL- in ff
_abc_CTRL-0 resets zoom
tgeeky_abc_: i know these things :o
tgeeky_abc_: btw, I think those actually are black BNC connectors on there:
tgeekylord knows why they would do that
_abc_Avoid conduction at any cost?
tgeekyyeah, maybe they are coated with something
tgeekythere are obviously two grounding points that look like they are shared with 2 channels each
_abc_Maybe they DID use plastic shelled bncs. Shudder
_abc_What povray can do:
tgeekyi would suspect they are metal with a teflon coating or similar
tgeeky_abc_: hah, that's incredible
Shawn186_abc_, the best poly film cap I have is 978pF
Shawn186for 102
_abc_Shawn186: ceramic. 1nF
_abc_ as I was saying, it can be FAIRLY good.
Shawn186_abc_, 102 is 1nF.....
_abc_Shawn186: yes.
Shawn186that pulled me from what I have easily available
_abc_Shawn186: use what you have. 1000pF 1nF etc. +/-10% is ok
_abc_ie. 900 to 1100 pF
Shawn186so 978 is not okay?
_abc_978 is well between 900 and 1100 and is okay
_abc_<off topic but fun> povray competition
Shawn186is poly-film recommended over ceramic>
_abc_Shawn186: it does not matter in this application. Poly is better for things like low distortion and accurate analog circuits. This is not a precision circui.
beanbag-poly is also very rugged
beanbag-unless you are really stupid
beanbag-oh? I thought poly self heal and shit
_abc_They have a stringent dV/dt limit which makes them a problem in high power, high frequency circuits.
wallbrokenwhy adsl works only with only one pole connected?
_abc_connect the zero too else electrons will overflow
wallbroken2 copper, i connect only one, and adsl still works, it should be an open circuit
_abc_adsl is high frequency. It will find a way to work if it can
wallbrokenbut it's an open circuit
_abc_But it works better with both wires connected.
Shawn186where is Co?
wallbrokenhow could i read a voltage?
Shawn186ohh where 330 is
wallbroken_abc_, any idea?
Shawn186_abc_, for 272, is 220 okay?
_abc_I have some ideas but it is related to cats which are not there.
tawrwallbroken: because it's not a circuit.
Shawn186I already have a 220uF cap on the board
tawrit's not dc power.
_abc_Shawn186: 272 is 2700
_abc_Shawn186: what 272?
Shawn186for C0
_abc_272 is 272uF you can use 220 or 270 or 330uF
Shawn186I dont have 270xD
_abc_ACTION always was and still is amazed by the magic of povray -- example
_abc_Shawn186: one of them
wallbrokentawr, signal = voltage difference, if you have only one pole, there could be a voltage difference
tawrwallbroken: explain an antenna then
tawrhow can your radio pick up a signal if it's just a metal rod in the air?
_abc_for some real fun <off topic> try 'mc escher povray' on google images
wallbrokentawr, antenna is a waveguide
tawrand uh, it's not a 'pole'. a pole has a specific meaning
tawrwallbroken: it's one wire though
_abc_Leave Poles alone, they are good people.
_abc_Unlike Zeros who are nothing!
wallbrokentawr "clamp" is better?
tawrmakes even less sense
tawrit's a wire.
tawrthat's it. a wire. you want to know why your adsl works with 1 wire instead of 2.
wallbrokena little slower, but it works
zigggggyACTION fixes wallbroken
tawrbecause it's frequencies on a line, wallbroken
tawrnot a DC circuit with power flowing
tawrit is not an ac waveform since i don't believe adsl goes negative, but it's not straight power. it's a ~1mhz signal going over the wire
wallbrokenso, when the frequency is too high, i don't need a ground?
wallbrokeni'm not sure if the "ground" is the right term
Churr0zswiggity swooty
wallbrokeni want to say reference voltage
tawrwallbroken: do you need it for your radio antenna
tawron your car?
Shawn186I found 1002 poly film cap _abc_ I am back in spec
wallbrokensurely not, but why?
Shawn186*comfort zone
wallbrokenfor example for my UART; i need TX and GND
Shawn186I'm just looking for brown red red gold
tawrwallbroken: correct, because different things work differently. your car needs both wires connected to the battery, yet wifi needs none!
wallbrokentawr, i just checked my tv antenna
wallbrokenit has two wires
tawri believe the most likely case without me delving too deeply into adsl tech is that simply there is a ground loop acting as the second conductor and letting some of the signal pass
tawrit will work with one, wallbroken
tawrrf is called voodoo / blackmagic for a reason, wallbroken
_abc_:) :)
tawrit's an entirely different world, even EE's that don't spealize in it call it black magic.
_abc_Don't mention the names of the ancient thing 3 times or you'll be short of a head
tawr_abc_ is right on the money. Never say it 3 times in the same day
Shawn186found a 1.2k resistor
wallbrokentawr, so, kirkoff goes to fuck?
ThePendulum(character) LCDs don't realy wear out per update or anything silly right?
hetiiI build headphone amplifer where I use DAC with spdif input signal. I provide this signal from CM119 (usb headphones). The point is that I hear digital noises from this cm119 even when I powered it from external psu.
ThePendulumsince I'm refreshing it quite a lot, goes a bit blurry, but other than that it should be alright?
hetiiso when I add 100nF capacitor in series with spdif line the noises are reduced
TheTrashWhat's the cheapest pcb manufacturing option with shipping to Europe? Shipping costs make selecting the best price a whole different ball game.
hetiiso any clue if I can or not use transoptor like PC817 to separate this CM119 from DAC ?
hetiior any other idea what I can do more to reduce this digital junks.
hetiias I test I also put 1nF from spdif to ground ant that also help a bit
_abc_hetii: speed. PC817 will not pass 10kHz
TheTrashThePendulum: you ever order PCBs?
_abc_hetii: try something like 6N137
bobo1on1hetii: check the wiring, you might have a problem with digital noise going into the analog part
tawrTheTrash: i showed you
tawrseveral hours ago
TheTrashtawr: are you in Europe?
hetiibobo1on1, I already change a ground wires to be sure that I don`t have a ground loop and to be honest it change nothing or its even worst then before
TheTrashI'm browsing around a bit, EasyEDA is a bit cheaper than dirtypcb for my current order.
bobo1on1hetii: how is the headphone amplifier powered?
tawrTheTrash: nope, but there are only so many maker/hacker board houses out there
TheTrashTheir shipping is $9.50 for snail mail, which still seems a bit high, unless they're using the shipping costs to offset the price.
bobo1on1hetii: possibly you have a ground loop between the usb ground and whatever the amplifier has for ground on its power supply
hetii_abc_, bobo1on1 This is how its look: its based on this designe:
electrobothetii just linked to
bobo1on1hetii: hm do you use an old school transformer as a power supply, or a switcher
hetiiif you don`t see picture try this link:
electrobothetii just linked to (Shared album - Grzegorz Hetman - Google Photos)
hetiibobo1on1, its regular small power transformer
bobo1on1ground loop shouldn't be an issue in that case
hetiiyep the issue is with the CM119. I check this dac with other spdif source and play without any noises
bobo1on1I assume it's not connected to mains earth?
Shawn186_abc_, ive pulled off more windings, for 3 winding removals its still at .09mH
hetiiprobably some low pass filter on spdif line could help me to rid it
Shawn18690 microhenries
Shawn186is that close enough to 70?
hetiialso its not an issue with power supply, as I don`t use power from usb port.
bobo1on1hetii: do you still leave the yellow spdif connected connected when using the usb
hetiibobo1on1, this yello is for external card and there is a switch that select this yellow port or internal card
hetiiso the yellow port is unconnected when internal card based on CM119 is used.
bobo1on1but its ground remains connected right?
hetiibut I can even disconect this yellow port, this change nothing
bobo1on1strange problem, this shouldn't be happening
hetiiyep, the best result I have when spdif output go throught 100nF to DAC and then via 1nF to gnd
ThePendulumTheTrash: not specifically, no
bobo1on1hm that still gets you a ground loop via the power supply and the spdif cable
TheTrashI'm a bit disappointed in my abilities to produce PCBs cheaper than Aliexpress :o
TheTrashCan more or less price match, though.
TheTrashBut they're ripping people off with their solderable breadboard PCBs
hetiiBTW CM119 have two pins that are called "5V Analog Power for Analog Circuit" and those are connected with "5V Power Supply to Internal Regulator"
hetiiso as I use SPDIF probably make no sense to split those power lines?
bobo1on1well you might be causing a ground loop over the pcb of the dac
Shawn186oops 80uH would have been better, I took it down to 70uH _abc_
bobo1on1and possibly over the ground wire of the dac
bobo1on1which then feeds into the amp
_abc_Just make sure the inductor is rated 1A
_abc_Shawn186: ^
hetiibtw can I try to use transformer from LAN card for SPDIF purpose ?
bobo1on1it's worth a try
Shawn186_abc_, is it okay if i went down to 70uH?
Shawn186on the coil
_abc_Use the minimum shown in the application calculator you used.
_abc_Anything larger or equal to that will work
_abc_hetii: maybe.
hetiiok works via transformer with 100nF on both side and common ground
hetiibut digital junks are still there
_abc_open the common ground
hetiibut they are reduced a lot
bobo1on1didn't you just bridge the transformer with capacitors?
Shawn186_abc_, R1=2.4k R2=9.1k (5.99V)
Shawn186why did you have me go down to 1.2k?
_abc_Shawn186: okay, if you have those values.
_abc_Shawn186: usually R1=1.2k and the other one is calculated
_abc_4.7K gives 6.1V
Shawn186so 4.7k and 1.2k give 6.1?
_abc_Shawn186: the ratio matters
_abc_Vout = 1.25*(1+R2/R1)
Shawn186and with your change the ratio is still intact?
hetiiNow I use separate ground and power CM119 back from usb port, noises are reduces a lot but still i`m able to hear some frequency
hetiibut when add 1nF to ground reduce it to 0
_abc_okay hetii , win
hetiiI don`t feel like a winer :)
Shawn186I put 2 100uF caps on the board, only need one >.<
hetiiwell, general will test more scenarios to see if be able to reduce it without transformer
cart_manOk so does anybody have nice resource material to learn about Two-Ports and One-Ports systems ?>
cart_manThe book I have has no solutions and its from 1969 and I feel its missing quite allot of info
_abc_cart_man: any nice book about electronics will treat 1-ports and 2-ports
cart_manI swear I have never in my life read about 1 port or 2 ports stuffs... also no the Matrices they use to solve the systems
_abc_ have fun
cart_manim checking through al my old boooks now ti see if I cant find someting similar
cart_manSo the port stuff is actually very simple things to do?
_abc_would this possibly belong in the /topic?
_abc_cart_man: yes it's just another name for usual shit you already know
cart_man_abc_, Sigh I feel like all of this has just been chasing in circles
_abc_cart_man: set up a glossary of equivalent terms
_abc_Along time, certain things were called differently from now
_abc_It is confusing until you get the hang of the history of things
_abc_Going from Greek (19th century) to now.
kcrowFurthermore, squirrels must be destroyed.
_abc_kcrow: How's crow training going?
kcrowexcellent! they stop by several times a day
kcrowthere were lotsa crows at the koreasat launch yesterday afternoon
Viper-7the fact that people like to rename everything from easy to interpret, descriptive names, to posthumously 'honor' the discoverer doesnt help at all
cart_man_abc_, For example... what is a Thenvenin equivalent of a Single-Port circuit ... ?
_abc_ cart_man you're really not good at clicking on links, right?
kcrowperhaps the unit of frustration could be named the Squirrel, as in "I am having a 4 megaSquirrel issue"
_abc_cart_man: this stuff was really new, in 1883. That's like err 134 years ago.
_abc_cart_man: catch up a bit :)
_abc_kcrow: just don't say "it's a squirrell in the a** problem". Apparently some people place gerbils @
_abc_(for surgeons to find and remove)
kcrowthat could be a teraSquirrel issue ;)
cart_man_abc_, ahahah No I click all your links ... its just I am not as good a googler as you are
cart_man_abc_, Ohh ahahah no Thevenins theorem is not my problem lol .. the "Single-Port" Twist is my problem. ... but with mny luck it probably just means n normal circuit -.-
_abc_cart_man: the link I provided shows how to deeduce a 1-port's impedance
hesperauxpeoples peoples
hesperauxI measure hundreds of ohms from my heatsink to my device tab through a mica sheet. What did I do?
_abc_hesperaux: there may be another conduction path to ground somewhere else
hesperauxbtw _abc_ thanks for your help the other day. I am pretty sure it was related to that internal transient protection diode coupling the SET pin to the output. Got it working
hesperauxI guess I'll check it again. Anyone ever see mica sheets fail somehow?
ZeroWalkerViper-7, you are back;d
goldstaranyone here familar with TN-C-S (uk lingo)?
Viper-7ZeroWalker: and front
ZeroWalkerindeed, you are everwhere nowadays
Viper-7ZeroWalker: did you get my last message yesterday?
nullifier28k microfarad... 20v cap
nullifierwhat in gods name
ZeroWalkernot sure i did
Viper-7Serial.print() is causing your issues :P
ZeroWalkerwhat's up with that?
_abc_hesperaux: I have, very thin ones, punctured by burrs
_abc_hesperaux: rare.
Viper-7ZeroWalker: i probably wouldnt break out isvsync into a seperate function like that, just because it would be easier to optimize if it was doing that inline - but the real issue would be the Serial.print() calls in the isClock function - these take a bunch of time, so will block the rest of the code while they transmit data - if you want to capture stuff at high speed, you should write the information you capture to a buffer, then periodically dump t
_abc_hesperaux: if you are right, loosening the screw will increase resistance
Viper-7hat via Serial.print(), so you dont have to make that call when handling each bit
ZeroWalkerah, hmm make sense
ZeroWalkeralso, i tried using interruptions as that seemed awesome
ZeroWalkernot sure i got it to work that well though, i tried incrementing an integer for each CLOCK interruption callback
ZeroWalkerthen on Vsync it would print it out
ZeroWalkerbut it would only increment to like 80-100 (even though it should be 144*160
Viper-7if all you want to do is count pulses, you should be able to use a timer as a simple counter, and let it capture them in hardware
Viper-7else you only have a couple of cpu cycles per input clock with your current scenario, so your code needs to be ultra minimal
Viper-7(an interrupt handler is probably too much overhead)
HrdwrBoBcounting pulses is a horrible pain in the ass though
HrdwrBoBdepending on what you're doing
HrdwrBoByou often then need to normalise it.
b0bby__I'm new to this whole thing and was wondering if someone could explain what happens in this circuit:
b0bby__Any ideas?
FauxBridge rectifier + smoothing.
tgeekyb0bby__: there are some... problems with that, though
tgeeky0pF capacitor
tgeeky1000 pF capacitor is probably way to small on a real bridge rectifier circuit
tgeekyand why there is an inductor as the "load" ...
jaakkosit's from
tgeekyb0bby__: what do you think it's supposed to do (or what does the literature say)? what 'micro output'?
b0bby__btw this is trying to emulate rfid transmission.
jaakkosthe inductor seems to be there to pick up energy from magnetic fields
tgeekyah I see, so this is the reverse
HoolooBOOthe inductor is the coil, yeah
HoolooBOOand I'm guessing that the 1000pf is losses in the coil but hard to say...
tgeekycoil isn't sized unfortunately
HoolooBOOerr not losses persay
tgeekyHoolooBOO: compensating for the coil, I guess? trying to get the phase back to 0?
HoolooBOOthat could be
ZeroWalkerViper-7, can you use a timer that simple checks a pin and increment a register if it's on (depending if Vsync is off (another pin))?
Viper-7a timer can detect an external rising or falling edge and increment its internal counter
tgeekyHoolooBOO: what... is a 0pf cap I wonder... just as small as possible of a value
HoolooBOOthat confused me
jaakkosb0bby__: so anyway, when the magnetic field inside the inductor changes, EMF is induced in the coil wiring
Viper-7note that on the stm32, the timer will run at the peripheral clock, so 18MHz
HoolooBOOI have no idea what that's supposed to mean
jaakkosb0bby__: this creates an AC voltage across the coil, which is then rectified by the diodes to provide DC voltage for the atmega ADC
tgeeky"You may notice that c6 is 0pF - That is intentional c6 is a placeholder component allowing me to either use a 1000pF surface mount cap, or a 1000pF through hole cap."
tgeekyb0bby__: fyi, I'm building this circuit up in a simulator we like to use here
HoolooBOOoh, I see, that makes sense I guess
jaakkosthe 1000pF is to set resonant frequency?
ZeroWalkerwell 18mhz is more than enough, though, if it can't have a "if" in it, then it's kinda difficult to use it i think
ZeroWalkeror perhaps it could work.. hmm, worth a try
ZeroWalkerhow can i use a timer?
b0bby__tgeeky: I'd love to take a look. Anything to learn.
ZeroWalkerand also, why do i have to sometimes press the damn reset button in order to upload the code, sometimes it works fine without it, but if it doesn't, it won't work till i press reset at the right time, which is so frustrating as it's hard to even touch the button xd
b0bby__What is the best way to self learn electronics?
Viper-7ZeroWalker: if programming with the stlink you shouldnt need to
HrdwrBoBb0bby__: build something
bobo1on1b0bby__: do a lot of reading, and try desiging a circuit
tgeekyb0bby__: build circuits and test/understand them. you really need an oscilloscope
tgeekyif you want to fast-track the understanding
HrdwrBoBI don't think so
bobo1on1you can design some circuits in a simulator
ZeroWalkerlet's hope so, usb seems to be a pain, hope i get it soon, damn thing has taken near 2 months
tgeekybobo1on1: i'm a computer scientist, I'm unable to trust simulators without some sort of real-world measurement to correborate
tgeekythat was meant for the other bob
ZeroWalkeras for the timer, i find it really hard to find any good documentation on how to use stuff at all with stm32, i find some stuff that seems stm32 specific, but it's not arduino code or something, so it's all just confusing;(
bobo1on1well, if you're learning the simple things, a simulator is a handy tool
b0bby__What free sim should I use?
bobo1on1I use ltspice
Viper-7the stm32duino library is basically libmaple under the hood, so you can use the libmaple functions directly without any extra work
tgeekyb0bby__: the best free sim is probably ltspice, but its' complicated. falstad (which I'm using here) is zero-effort in-browser, and it's adequate for lots of cases but not all
bobo1on1you basically use a simulator as an advanced calculator
ZeroWalkerah will have to read up on that library
ZeroWalkerViper-7, is the timer stuff something to do with TIM1_CH1N for example?
ZeroWalkercause i know some pins has alternative modes or whatnot, but not that sure how it works out
Viper-7apparently the libmaple stuff doesnt support external clock inputs, so you have to resort to bare registers - documented by the stm32f103 datasheet
Viper-7example here
Viper-7HardwareTimer reference is here
ZeroWalkerwhat kind of coding is this: ?
Viper-7looks like the cubemx hal
ZeroWalkerah, feels more c like which i like
newcoderCan we use 2 sound card? One is built-in and one is USB sound card?
bobo1on1depends on your operating system
b0bby__quick question: how do capacitor banks charge up to release a voltage much higher than there charging voltage.
LeoNerdb0bby__: look up Cockroft-Walton
bobo1on1charge in parallel, release in series
bobo1on1that's not actually cockroft-walton though
ZeroWalkerViper-7, don't quite get how you set it to count on a rise. i took the timer2 example as it uses PA1 which i have my 4mhz clock signal on
electrobottgeeky just linked to
tgeekyb0bby__: this is basically that circuit, with the major change being: I don't show a micro, but I instead show the two ideal micro states (+5V and 0V or HIGH and LOW).
b0bby__tgeeky: thanks
tgeekyb0bby__: furthermore, because this simulator doesn't allow coupling between regular inductors, I've used a transformer instead
tgeekyb0bby__: and lastly, instead of actually emulating the RFID chip's interaction and capability, I am instead just using a generator to generate the 125 kHz carrier at a small voltage (I picked 1V but it should be smaller, but it doesn't matter)
Shawn186wow, a few steps closer...
Shawn186I need to get something to eat..
Shawn186and take a break from this 254 hour continuous strain
tgeekyb0bby__: in reality, I think the arduino would go to +5V to "charge" the RFID device, then it would short to ground to listen to the response of the RFID chip.
tgeekyb0bby__: you can emulate the RFID chip sending 1s and 0s by switching the right switch
b0bby__tgeeky: Cool. I need to do a lot more research in order to understand this.
tgeekyb0bby__: there are probably some very complete youtube videos on RFID circuits and how they work
tgeekyb0bby__: in general they are called near field communications
kmciait's just like an air core transformer right?
Shawn186abc left :(
tgeekykmcia: yep
tgeekykmcia: well, air core inductor, and simulated as a transformer here
kcrowKaw !
ZeroWalkerokay so i think the counter works, but it's nowhere near where it should be. i get about 1700-2000 in about 1 second, and i should get about 23040
kmciaI don't have the context here; what are you counting and how?
Kaylahdoes anyone here know how fountains work?
bobo1on1with a pump and water
Kaylahim trying to figure out how this fountain works:
Kaylahwhat the different pipes are for and all
tgeekyyou ask some of the weirdest questions sometimes
Kaylahcan anyone help?
angangaprobably not
Kaylahdo you know where i can find someone who knows more about it?
HoolooBOOKaylah, maybe try the Netherlands
bongofuryyou're gonna need more information
bongofurythe big pipes are for drainage
bongofurythe little ones are for supply
bongofuryand the cans are lights, most likely
Kaylahhmm what do you mean by cans?
HoolooBOOif it's definitely a fountain, there'd be some big pipes and a big pump on it
bongofurylooks like each can has a pump
HoolooBOOdo you know what it looks like when running?
Kaylahno, it's not finished to this day
Kaylahbongofury: what makes you think that?
bongofurybecause otherwise
bongofuryall of those water points would be on or off
Kaylahisn't that possible or is it not done?
bongofuryusually when you make a grid of objects, you make them addressable
HoolooBOOdo you have the "detail 1" that the diagram mentions?
Kaylahso each of them can be monitored seperately
bongofury... are you familiar with modern water features?
pfred1bongofury are you familiar with water sports?
Kaylahhmm not really
HoolooBOOI would certainly not assume that they're addressable
Kaylahhere's all i have about detail 1
bongofuryHoolooBOO why make an array if not
HoolooBOOI'm not sure, I guess
Kaylahbongofury: why are the supply pipes so much smaller than the drainage pipes?