python476radiometer + laser = hnnng
electrobotpython476 just linked to (Sprengel Vacuum Pump: The most efficient pump ever? - YouTube)
linux_probethis seems more fitting a link to post..
jaakkosdamnit wasted 2 evenings on this silly issue
jaakkosgot new PCBs, assembled them and noticed the current draw is randomly 1-2mA while it should be < 10uA in sleep...
jaakkosforgot SPI MISO in high impedance mode and configured as input on MCU
jaakkosas a CMOS input that draws a lot of current randomly
jaakkossilly I didn't catch it faster because I knew about it... it just never triggered on me before :)
kmcoh well, I will be fashionably late.
kmcstill thursday here bro
jsoftWent to an island on a boat, minced around on island, came back in bigger boat, 3 hour work day ftw.
kmcThursday Night Drinking
GoatmanDoes anyone here use an electric blanket? Are there any good ones?
jsoftGoatman, You mean a heater electric blanket?
GoatmanYeah you sleep under them
Goatmanor on them
jsoftI hear they are good for catching houses on fire
GoatmanWell then fuck yeah, This house is insured
jsoftWhy not just use a bigger duvet
GoatmanGoatie’s got to get to Switzerladnd
Sculptordo you have a strong bladder
jsoftHow do you know if you have a strong bladder
Sculptordo you wet your bed
Sculptoryou don't want to wet your electric blanket
jsoftdoes any adult?
e36freakmakes it warmer
kmcwait till you really have to pee then have a friend punch you in the abdomen repeatedly
jsoftHah! :D
jsoftThat sounds like a great idea to do to someone
Sculptorere these fishing glasses good
Goatmanjsoft, you don’t like electric blankets? They save on gas
GoatmanWhy heat your whole house up when you just need comfy time?
jsoftGoatman, because you dont even need electric blankets or gas to sleep warm
ak1ndnerdHi everybody
SpeedEvilNew electric blankets are really safe.
SpeedEvilEven the very cheap ones have several safety features
kmcbest heater for your bed is another person >___> or two
SpeedEvilOr a dog.
bobo1on1I usually fart under the blankets
ChinesiumI mine cryptocurrency to stay warm at night
kcrowI like the blankets that have gas
bongofurythat article said 1 btc transaction costs as much as a week's worth of household energy
GoatmanI have dog but need electric blanket to stay warm
gurkiGoatman: no. you just need one or two additional blankets :)
SpeedEvilblankets don't do the same thing
SpeedEvilelectric blanket can mean bed is warm to get into, and allow you to sleep comfortably much colder.
SpeedEvilIt's been down to 6C, with me being too hot, with an electric blanket and a thin blanket
SpeedEvilon 40W or so
jsoftA semi reasonable duvet should see you warm even in 0 degrees
jsoftAre you cold blooded or something
kmccan all nail polish be UV cured or only that gel stuff?
pfred1I imagine UV would dry anything out
kmcwhat about IR?
pfred1my shiny new schematic capture program seems to have a bug in it
pfred1I'm on the "Composant" layer
durrfin languages other then english thats what components are called, or it is in french at least
durrfprobably a localization issue
pfred1yeah but I didn't compile it in French
pfred1no they're fucked up
pfred1dumb assed Frogs
superkuhWhat if they're Swiss?
superkuhSeems more likely.
superkuhGiven kicad's funding and contributors.
pfred1in the last version it was right
pfred1this project is a shining example of why FLOSS doesn't catch on in the mainstream
pfred1it is a seaming pile of shit to get to build
pfred1steaming even
superkuhI just use a PPA with nightlies.
superkuhSomeone else's problem.
pfred1when i told them I'd built it they told me it was impossible
pfred1at least on my version of Debian that I run
superkuhSo that's why you're talking about it on ##electronics instead of #kicad?
pfred1which is to say there is no build available for me
pfred1superkuh you do know what kicad is don't you?
superkuhI've made multiple boards with it, yeah.
pfred1superkuh yet you fail to see the relationship it has with electronics?
superkuhI'm just sayin', these particular kicad issues would really be better addressed there since they're not actually electronics issues.
pfred1superkuh did someone superglue a dunce cap to your skull or do you put it on religiously every day?
superkuhCould be.
pfred1superkuh why do you think I haven't already?
superkuhThat was implicit in my statement about why you're talking about it here, where there'll be no help or fixes, versus where you've probably already insulted them and realized it was useless to keep talking.
pfred1superkuh you should STFU before you prove beyond all shadow of a doubt how low IQ you really are
kcrowCadence makes some useful products
kmcsuperkuh: I like your nick :)
jsoftIs this a nerd fight?
superkuhNah, I think we're done. kmc, thanks.
jsoftIm running the latest kicad now, it has a via button! :D
kmcnerd fiiiiiiiight!
kmcACTION equips slide rule
jsoftACTION deploys a 15C
jsoftI actually love my 15C.
kcrowACTION fires up the HP-41
jsoftI have two.
pfred1this was the latest when I started building it they could have released a new one eince then though
jsoftpfred1, what is the problem?
jsoftOh the composant layer? Wtf does that mean
pfred1it is French
jsoftAre you having problems with it or something?
pfred1it is just annoying
jsoftYeah it can be annoying.
jsoftbut its also free and works on loonux.
pfred1it makes FLOSS look bad
Bird|otherboxmy conclusion is that basically all EDA tools are going to be annoying in some way or another
jsoftI don't see how
kmcBird|otherbox: me too
jsoft( it makes FLOSS look bad )
pfred1its slipshod
kmcL I N U X
jsoftYeah like I found altium annoying too
kmcthey all have their quirks
kcrowcall up Cadence
kmcmaybe one day we will have the perfect EDA
kmcprobably not
jsoftI like kicads 'yeah well whatever just assign a footprint later' deal
Bird|otherboxjsoft: it actually makes a fair bit of sense because trying to tightly bind schematic symbols to footprints is nonsensical for a lot of more-standardized parts
jsoftBird|otherbox, yeah :)
Bird|otherbox(and also combinatorially explodes your parts lib)
Drakonitethe annoying bit is that it doesn't handle when the footprints use different pinouts
jsoftWhat do you mean different pinouts
pfred1I hear they're overhauling the whole library mechanism
pfred1they know it is a hot mess
Drakonitethat'd be a surprise to me
jsoftYeah thats the penis with kicad, it's a bit of a cunt to do library things
Drakonite(but a good surprise)
pfred1it may be fixed when 5 comes out?
DrakoniteI audited the entire atmel lib... can confirm it's a bit of a cunt
pfred1hey I remember when EDA used to crash before I could get 3 steps into a tutorial
pfred1now the software is at least usable
jsoftSpeaking of kicad, I sent away my doofertron 5000 edition board the other day
pfred1I think it took them 12 years to get to usability
jsoftIts a board which just goes on top of a nucleo 144 F7 board, and just provides input protection for a signal ( siggen ) and buffered output via RC, LC, or raw filters, and sample clock and reference. For a digital filter stuff.
Bird|otherboxI've seen Cadence stuff blow up spectacularly before
pfred1buffering is nice
pfred1I need to figure out how to do the trace push in kicad
jsoftpfred1, isnt it just right click, routing options?
pfred1jsoft beats me i just got the stuff running I'm not seeing it i hear it only works in GL
pfred1then again default seems to have a lot more options to me
pfred1I donno I saw someone do it in a YouTube video I can't seem to manage it myself yet
pfred1I can't tell if i don't have Cairo view or it is just really slow
pfred1it ain't looking good
Hooloovo0I'm looking to minimize a boolean function, and XOR is as cheap as AND and OR, which is not usually an assumption that's made
Hooloovo0anyone know of anything that'll (near-)minimize that?
jsoftSorry, minimize what?
Mad7Scientistgurki, If you're paid by the hour then you can take a really long time to do the analog+digital simulation
Hooloovo0I have a function of several binary inputs that map to one output
DocScrutinizer05bitching about bugs in kicad nightlies doesn't make much sense really
jsoftDocScrutinizer05, I want my money back!
tgeekyjoe_z: if you're there, I have some results left from last night
pfred1DocScrutinizer05 who did that?
joe_ztgeeky, yep
tgeekyjoe_z: I stated this before I went to bed, but the two protection transistors did nothing to help; but then I hooked up a 1M 0.1% resistor and hooked up the scope probe across R110 again, and noticed that it sort of stabalized again (although to a wrong value, 1.222 Mohm); but once I hooked up *only* the LO sense lead (the HI sense lead did not matter), it stabalized to the exact value (0.9999921 Mohm)
stairmast0rshould thermal paste be applied by spreading or drop+squish for direct silicon contact?
tgeekyjoe_z: I don't know what it means, but I suspect this will somehow lead me/us/whomever to whatever the problem is, since it's quite a lot of specific information
pfred1stairmast0r that's a debate I am in the thin film spread camp myself
pfred1thermal paste is only supposed to make up for surface imperfections between mating parts
tgeekyjoe_z: there is, of course, a lot of AC hum sitting on the unconnected lines, but this isn't/wasn't normally a problem
pfred1microscopic pores and what have you
pfred1a layer of paste is just another thermal resistive layer
tgeekyjoe_z: but there must be some noise being picked up by LO sense, and somehow connecting it and killing this noise must be helping.
joe_ztgeeky, well LO sense is tied to LO by a 220K resistor according to the schematic
joe_zis that resistor open maybe?
tgeekyjoe_z: it is not, I checked that again last night
joe_zand it measures the correct resistance as well?
tgeekyjoe_z: I do need to carefully check all of those solder joints up there, perhaps one of them is dead
tgeekyjoe_z: yeah
pfred1tgeeky there are bench techs that relow all solder joints before they even start troubleshooting
tgeekyjoe_z: the only thing I thought of last night, is that perhaps something that's connected to LO is actually dead (a trace or part, or CR105, or CR106)
joe_zyeah, we had a keithley that was doing some weird stuff due to a bad solder joint on the input jacks
tgeekyjoe_z: if the bridge rectifier was dead on the LO
tgeekyjoe_z: actually that's a good point (the one I made)
joe_zohms is also the only range that will make full use of the sense inputs generally
tgeekyjoe_z: yep
tgeekyjoe_z: i just thought though: imagine that the LO traces are actually broken, or the bridge rectifier on that input is partially dead; then the only way anything gets any reading is through the LO SENSE input -- this doesn't explain voltages, but perhaps anything with voltage or current has enough potential to bypass the problem
tgeekyjoe_z: or, in general, perhaps all readings all the time have been being made through the LO sense terminal, and that might explain the discrepancy between 1M and 1.2M
joe_ztgeeky, I'm guessing that something on the LO sense terminal might be 'leaking' and pulling that voltage around
joe_zby directly connecting to LO, you eliminate an I*R drop across the 220K maybe
tgeekyjoe_z: I of course have not been hooking up the LO SENSE terminal on voltage readings, but anything I did hook up could just bypass onto the LO SENSE, or maybe the signals are strong enough to get through the broken bridge rectifier input
tgeekyjoe_z: yeah...
joe_zbut that only makes sense if there are no other resistors between there and the destination circuitry
tgeekyjoe_z: anyway, someting to go on! exciting!
tgeekyjoe_z: well, the LO SENSE line goes: (input) -> R110 (where I was connecting the scope probe) -> Q112
joe_ztgeeky, and also that switch
tgeekyjoe_z: the LO path goes (input) -> (bridge rectifier) -> (fuse (is ok)) -> oh.. no, it goes nowhere
joe_zcould the switch have arced over when you applied the bad input?
tgeekyit goes to AMPS switch
joe_zmaybe it's got carbon tracking now?
tgeekyjoe_z: maybe. I know the OHMS switch is fine. Maybe the amps switch is shorted or something
joe_ztgeeky, how are you so sure the ohms switch is fine?
tgeekyjoe_z: I tested all the contacts in all the positions
tgeekyand tested what they look like when they are not connected to anything
joe_ztgeeky, sure maybe it turns *on* alright
joe_zbut maybe it doesn't fully turn off
tgeekyjoe_z: I tested that too, all the breaks happen
tgeekyon the ohms switch, at least
joe_zeven about a Mohm between two contacts could be significant here
joe_zwhen they should be off
joe_zI'd say look at the voltage across R124 (the 220K)
tgeekyjoe_z: if I have to, I can take the switch apart and test it, but the meter I have (handheld) can read up to about 40M
tgeekyjoe_z: look at the voltage during resist measurements?
tgeekyjoe_z: I just notice, the path that voltage/resist must take through the LO jack goes
tgeekyinput -> one side of R123 -> R118D -> R118E -> voltage switch
tgeekyI have never tested any of that
tgeekyand that normally (when V switch is OUT) connects to signal ground!
joe_ztgeeky, that's on the wrong side of R124 to seemingly make a difference though
joe_zbut maybe
tgeekyjoe_z: remember though, normally I am not connecting LO SENSE at all
tgeekywhen I did connect LO SENSE, is when it finally worked right
joe_zwhich suggests LO SENSE != LO
joe_zbut that can only happen if there's leakage on the LO SENSE side
tgeekybut more importantly, without my hack of doing something to stabalize R110 to ground (oscilloscope probe, or just a 1M resistor), nothing reads at all
tgeekywhich is like the LO doesn't connect to anything
tgeekyanyway, i have a bunch of things to check
tgeekyjoe_z: overall, this might be good news though. If resistance measurements are this close to being correct, perhaps whatever this remaining problem is, is the last problem with the meter, and perhaps it will be back to calibration when i fix this last one
tgeekye.g. the small-ish errors in voltage and current measurements might correct themselves too
joe_ztgeeky, have you checked to make sure adjacent poles on the multipole switch aren't shorted?
joe_zthe resistance mode switch
tgeekyjoe_z: yes, so from the perspective of the four outputs, all four inputs work, all four non-inputs are OL, in both positions
joe_zdid you check between sets of contacts though?
joe_zsay from pin 5 to pin 8
joe_zlike I said, I'm kind of worried about carbon tracking now
tgeekyjoe_z: what is carbon tracking? the idea that the metal exploded and there are bits in there?
joe_ztgeeky, something arced over, heat turned nonconductive hydrocarbons into conductive carbon
tgeeky5 and 8 are on on opposite sides of the switch, I don't think it's possible for them to connect
joe_znow there's a 'track' there where it arced over
tgeekyoh, through the plastic
tgeekyi'd be surprised. I will fully check out that switch first thing. so I need to exhaustively check every pin to every other pin?
joe_zOK, but multiple sets of contacts in the switch may be interfering with each other is what I'm trying to say
joe_ztgeeky, yeah, ideally
tgeekyok. I'll do that. should only take a few min
joe_zor, just pull it, and put some wires in for 'ohms' mode and see if it goes away
joe_ztgeeky, I believe you said you had a high voltage mishap that broke this meter, right?
tgeekypulling it is basically a two hour job, the entire bank of switches more or less is one unit, and I'd have to remove a handful of other parts like the shunt resistors
tgeekyjoe_z: it was basically a ground loop problem with AC voltage, in that I had hot/neutral reversed relative to HI and LO on the meter
tgeekyand the meter was grounded through the display through an arduino through my computer
tgeekythings that died: the arduino, the display, a random smattering of ICs, the instrumentation chip
joe_zyeah, that makes me wonder if a switch arced over
joe_zif it did, like I said..
joe_zcould be some other signal from the ohms switch leaking into the R110 area
tgeekyi'll find out soon enough
joe_zmaybe a 1M probe is enough to kill it
tgeekyjoe_z: obviously i wasn't in ohms mode when I did that
tgeekyi was in AC volts
joe_zand then the 1M scope probe itself causes loading of the LO SENSE causing wrong values
tgeeky(I say obviously, if I'm stupid enough to blow up a meter that way, perhaps nothing is obvious)
joe_zbut by bypassing the 220K and shorting LO SENSE and LO, you fix the loading issue
tgeekyjoe_z: but, of course, without the scope probe, I get no measurements at all (just OL)
pfred1I've blown a pile of meters up
pfred1it happens
joe_zit's a curious problem, but the fact that this 'solves' it seems to suggest something weird MUST be going on at that R110-R124 junction
pfred1I'm at the point where I won't do a current measurement with a meter i care about until I check it first with a throw away meter
joe_zsomething there is screwing up the reading
tgeekypfred1: and certainly a bench meter like this one
joe_zpfred1, well blowing the fuse isn't blowing the meter up
pfred1I donno I've roasted meters and the fuse didn't save them
joe_zpfred1, you're buying shitty meters then
tgeekypfred1: the real problem is that I was programming the arduino to add a data logging mode to the display, and recording data. I should have remembered that there isn't isolation: especially because this thing has a GPIB card, and its inputs are optoisolated
pfred1no doubt
joe_zmeter's that aren't shitty cost more than $50
joe_zthat's just barely getting out of 'shitty'
pfred1yeah 'm not buying any fluke meters
joe_zmy ~$120 BK precision from years ago was saved by fuses when measuring current
joe_zand I once shorted out a lead acid battery with it
pfred1I toasted my B&K
tgeekyit's unfortunate that the gold standard is still fluke/agilent, and both of them have had a range of very serious QC problems somewhat recently
pfred1it was a nice meter though
tgeekythis keithley is awesome
tgeeky220,000 counts
joe_zkeithley's are good
joe_zowned by agilent now IIRC
tgeekyfrom 1980s
tgeekyjoe_z: owned by tektronix unfortunately
joe_zoh, yeah
joe_zone or the other
tgeekythough they still are some of the best in the world meters (the DMM7510 is fucking amazing)
joe_zmy dad has a keithley 2000
tgeekyand their source meters are super, super, super awesome
jsoftwhat is a source meter?
pfred1for what i do I don't need anything awesome
joe_zit was thrown out b/c of a bad solder joint on the input jack we think
joe_zwe didn't notice it for a long time
tgeekyjsoft: a source meter is a device is a four quadrant power supply along with a very high precision multimeter at the output
tgeekyjsoft: so it can (source, sink) (voltage, current) and measure (voltage, current, resistance)
jsoftOh you mean it senses the voltage at the load with two other sense wires?
tgeekyjsoft: no
jsoftOh a meter
tgeekyjsoft: it also does that, but that's not it
pfred1I got a UT61-E now and it is fine for what I do
jsoftSo same thing but measures voltage with the sense wires at the load instead of terminals?
tgeekyjsoft: it's much more than just that. it's not about sensing, it's about compliance (which is the term keithley uses)
jsoftOh ok
pfred1I'm not tuning satellite receivers or anything like that
tgeekyjsoft: i think it's helpful to think about other equipment and then understand what they add
joe_zthe jacks on my BK precision finally wore out and started to break
joe_zI repaired it once, but I don't know if it'll hold very long
tgeekyjsoft: imagine you have a power supply which is very good, and can provide, you know, regulated constant voltage or constant current mode
joe_zI upgraded to a Beckman Industrial 4410
pfred1that was practically this year here
joe_zit's a bit battery hungry
joe_z4.5 digit handheld
tgeekyjsoft: presumably, it can also readback what it's doing (in other words, if you set it to provide 10.000 volts it can see that it's only providing 9.9500 volts and adjust to compensate) -- this is sensing
tgeekyjsoft: but it can also do the same thing even if the supply is turned off
tgeekyjsoft: so this is just a powersupply with readback
jsoftperhaps I should just google it :D
pfred1I have a busted beckman HD 101
tgeekyjsoft: then, you make the power supply two quadrant (in voltage): it can internally provide a positive or negative voltage without the need to swap leads
tgeekyjsoft: that's not super special, I'm sure power supplies that do this can be bought
jsoftSo what is it used for ?
pfred1it is a good random number generator now though
tgeekyjsoft: but then you also make it two quadrant in current: it's a power supply and an electronic load;
tgeekyjsoft: it's used for basically anything you want, but most often it's used to characterize devices, like transistors, diodes, LEDs, etc
joe_zone of these days, I should bring the beckman to one of the labs here and check it against a calibrated meter
jsoftSo some multi purpose gizmo?
pfred1I have a voltage reference
tgeekyjsoft: yeah, any lab which is creating transistors or other ICs, or dealing with optoelectronics, probably has one
jsoftOh ok
jsoftSo I really have not business concerning myself with one? :D
tgeekyjsoft: it can be used as: a multimeter, an electronic load, an ideal voltage supply, and ideal current supply, and ideal current and voltage sinks
jsoftSo its an amazeballs doofer
tgeekyjsoft: not unless you want to part with a couple thousand dollars, no
tgeekyeven 20 year old ones are $2k-3k
jsoftI really want to buy a spec an next
tgeekyjsoft: if you are in the US at least, you can get pretty amazing specans for like $300 - 500
tgeekyi got an agilent e7495a which is pretty freakin awesome
kmche gave a fuckload of money to my school
kmcso there are like 4 buildings named after him
jsoftYeah I am in NZ so I would have to pay out the ass for shipping
tgeekyjsoft: yep :(
pfred1kmc maybe beckman can fix this meter of his?
jsofttgeeky, I need to get one though. For reasons.
kmcthey do this thing where they divide up one actual building into 3 or 4 notional buildings so they can sell off more namings
kmcmeanwhile mark fucking zuckerberg pasted his name on SF General Hospital
kmcthey keep sending me a bill for $0.00
pfred1pay up!
jsoftMy shitbox hantec scope can do FFT stuff, but not a candle on a proper specan
kmcI guess I should send them a check for $0.00
tgeekyjsoft: the thing about specans is that you can't really afford to skimp, because the difference of, say, a few dB can mean 10x or 20x the power
Spirit532Guys, I have the most amazing engineering fail
kmcI probably owe them like $0.000000000039 due to floating point error
Spirit532I just acquired a $70 000 camera
Spirit532It is run by a JAVA WEBAPPLET
Spirit532(that doesn't launch)
Spirit532(that is screwed to death)
jsofttgeeky, I thought you could zero them ? Or are you saying shit ones don't give a linear measurement
kmcpeople should not use floating point for money quantities, but they do, all the f'ing time
tgeekyjsoft: nonlinear, yeah
pfred1Spirit532 I had trouble with a java TV in a fleabag motel over the summer
Spirit532Let that sink in. $70k worth of hardware
Spirit532On JAVA.
pfred13 reboots and it worked
tgeekyjsoft: you have to have linearity over a huge range, of you know like 100 dBm
Spirit532I'm root on the fucking thing
kmcSpirit532: I've used scopes that cost that much and run Windows Vista
Spirit532There ain't no saving it
Spirit532I will either hire a java dev to unfuck this, because I hate the language with a passion
Spirit532Or rewrite it in C/C++ or C#
jsofttgeeky, ahh ok fair enough. 100 db is a lot. Imagine 100db on top of the price of a coffee for example :D
kmccan you use a non Java JVM language and thereby not have to rewrite it all at once?
pfred1hate the language with a pastebin!
tgeekyjsoft: from a cup of coffee to the whole starbucks corporation for its entire lifecycle
jsoftArgh java
kmcKotlin, Clojure, Scala all seem pretty okay
Spirit532kmc, it's a webapplet that you download
Spirit532but it crashes on PC
kmcSpirit532: rewrite it in Rust!
kmcACTION dodges thrown fruits
jsoftWhat is all this rust business
Mad7ScientistSpirit532, can you write a program to convert java in to C++?
jsoftI've not looked into rust, whats the jive with it?
Spirit532I can
kmcjsoft: it's a new lang, like C++ but with less baggage
Spirit532It will take me a year to implement
pfred1something just installed rust on my PC so I guess it's done now
Spirit532Rust is bad
kmcand more safety, which is mostly enforced at compile time
ozzzyACTION has pretty much switched to
kmcit compiles to native code same as C or C++
kmcno GC
jsoftkmc, ahh ok.
kmcno "runtime" any more than C and C++ have (which is non zero)
Spirit532C# is the easiest of them all in my opinion
Spirit532simple, quick
kmcit works on micros too
jsoftkmc, I am pretty happy with C to be honest, but I guess worth a look
ozzzyyou can switch back/forth from C#
kmcthat's one of the main reasons I'm excited
Mad7ScientistACTION drowns ozzzy in Windows 10
tgeekyall of your languages suck compared to haskell
tgeekyand you all know it
Spirit532if anyone here knows Java
kmcjsoft: Rust is very much more complicated than C. it's almost as complicated as C++, but you get more value for that complexity
Spirit532I'll give you a few beer cases if you can make it run
jsoftnope, they all such compared to erlang, and you know it
kcrowForth is the good stuff
tgeekyerlang has whole domains that it can't serve
kmcI wanna run forth on my bluepills
jsoftSpirit532, ok beer? What is the problem
kmcthis has been done
kmcACTION afk
Spirit532jsoft, a pallet of beer
kcrowpillz !
ozzzythe best language is 8051, 65xx or 68xx assembler
Spirit532if you can get a java jnlp webapplet to run
pfred1I just figure out how to compile code i don't write the stuff
Spirit532on windows 10
jsofttgeeky, I found it uber usefull in a recent lora project
Spirit532and control a camera
ozzzyx86 assembler wasn't nice
Spirit532the applet and dependencies are not obfuscated or encrypted
Mad7ScientistWHy are they killing java and flash? They are the most efficient interactive browser platforms available.
pfred1ozzzy that's the one language i actually could program in
ozzzyMad7Scientist, because PERL and PHP are better
Spirit532Java hogs memory like nothing else
Mad7ScientistPHP is just about the slowest interpreted language that exists
tgeekythey are killing flash because it's proven to be impossible to make secure
ozzzypfred1, what... MASM?
pfred1ozzzy yup
Mad7ScientistJava is as fast as compiled C++ with several times the memory usage
jsofttgeeky, processing the messages. Sooo easy to just go 'oh yep, well this device is a little endian, this one is a big, so yeah whatevers, all good' and binary pattern matching and processes for africa which is like OO kinda but procssess oriented
ozzzyMad7Scientist, we have 'supercomputers in a small box'... who cares how slow the code runs
pfred1ozzzy until my floppy disk set died
Mad7Scientistozzzy, I do
pfred1I liked MASM
jaggztoday is the birthday of the United States. Traditionally it is celebrated by attempting to blow up or burn a small part of it with fireworks
jsoftMad7Scientist, yeah but PHP is simple
ozzzyMad7Scientist, just add processors
tgeekyjsoft: yeah, it's awesome for similar kinds of things it was originally designed for, which is high-reliability communications protocol handling
pfred1it had a nice color scheme
Spirit532I've sent about 15 emails and 8 inquiry forms now, to various people that own or have owned the same camera in the last 10 years
ozzzyLOL... so did QuickC
Spirit532I've yet to receive a single reply, except from a very nice individual in Germany
Mad7ScientistIF I reload a forum website 30 times per second it brings down the whole PHP site
Spirit532who is trying his best to help
jsofttgeeky, yeah :)
pfred1tan and black as i can recall? is often unresponsive despite running on a super computer in a box
ozzzyACTION wrote a .h file for a buddy that knew PASCAL but wanted his stuff compiled in C... so he could basically program in PASCAL and the header turned it into ANSI C
jsoftozzzy, how does that worjk
jsoftSpirit532, yeah fuck that.
pfred1Mad7Scientist cycles are money
ozzzyit takes some fiddling... you need the main() etc
jsoftSpirit532, windows 10, AND java? No
Spirit532I'll downgrade to 7 or xp if you can make it run
jsoftWell why is it not running?
jsoftOr the symtoms or whatever
Spirit532So. Many. Errors.
ozzzybut you write a PASCAL function... and the header takes the syntax (input, output etc) and maps it to a C function
pfred1operator error!
jsoftSo a standard java install then
Spirit532I think it's an x86/64 problem at the core SOMEWHERE
Spirit532it dies around a third-party(camera mfg) dependency
Spirit532dpwalker says it's x86
pfred1deep 86ed
Spirit532BUT it does on x32 win7 as well, apparently with the same issue
jsoftNah fuck, I cant help you. I've got no time to be delving into java bullshit.
jsoftWell I have time, but no motivation.
Spirit532thing is - it's just a fucking directx plugin it crashes at
Spirit532I don't care about it an want it gone
Mad7ScientistSpirit532, it only works on an Android / iOS browser?
pfred1direct hex
Spirit532iOS didn't exist when this camera was made
jsoftSpirit532, so you have changed versions of direct x and all that shit?
Spirit532jsoft, few cases of beer
Spirit532or pallet
jsoftSpirit532, I already have beer and pallets.
Mad7ScientistSpirit532, you have a camera with custom Windows software and the software is crashing?
Spirit532pallets of beer?
jsoftOr do I mean pallet
jsoftthe food pallet
cheatercan i use a 150W ballast with a 100W metal halide light bulb?
Spirit532Mad7Scientist, it's stored on the camera
Spirit532you visit /applet.jnlp
Mad7ScientistCan you program it down to 100W?
Spirit532it runs in Java Web Start
Mad7ScientistAhh I see. Do you have to have the java plugin installed?
cheaterMad7Scientist: no. it's fixed at 150W.
tgeekyi'm not sure he wanted our help to fix it, I think he thinks it's unfixable and he just wants us to share his pain
Mad7Scientistcheater, can you put in a 50W resistor?
Spirit532Mad7Scientist, I can't run it in browser, since the jnlp is not served as a jnlp via MIME types
Spirit532It's served as XML
Spirit532but if I download it
Spirit532(save as)
Spirit532And run that - it sorta works up until a point
Mad7ScientistWell at some time it wast meant to run in a browser, like IE 6
Spirit532Where it tries to load one of the two "plugins"
Spirit532Those "plugins" seem to not matter much
Mad7ScientistI have java on Windows 98
Spirit532There are two versions of the software, one of which controls the camera from the PC and had to be purchased separately
Spirit532That one I do NOT have and am trying to obtain
Spirit532(but fruitlessly so far)
Mad7ScientistI save all downloads
Spirit532And this one, which is the default, and it's loaded directly on the camera
Spirit532On mine - it was not
Spirit532The friendly German chap sent me the update file
Spirit532The update file FAILED
Spirit532I had to manually update it by hand, whilst logged in as root
Spirit532That worked(for once!)
Spirit532And now I'm stuck here.
Mad7Scientistoh you're doing it in Linux
Spirit532no, the camera runs linux
Spirit532I run windows
Mad7ScientistWin XP IE6 2004 Java probably what you need
Spirit532The manual said JRE SE 1.5.0
Spirit532I got 1.5.0
Spirit532It ded.
jsoftFucking java.
Mad7ScientistThe java download license restricts distribution
jsoft'Write once run anywhere' my ass.
pfred1write once crash anywhere
Spirit532jsoft, I think they meant "write once run anywhere provided it's the same place"
Spirit532or "write once run anywhere - just bring your fucking laptop with you, you loser"
Mad7ScientistIt is likely your operating system that is triggering the crash. These things were meant to work on XP
pfred1why just piss some people off?
Mad7ScientistOracle bought it and ruined it
Spirit532the offer is still up
Spirit532get the thing to run, get a reward
Spirit532probably just a bunch of money via PayPal.
Spirit532and mad street cred?
Spirit532you can say you popped root on a $70k military box
Spirit532but at some point I'm just going to say "fuck it" and reverse-engineer the whole thing into a nice, useable, simple C# or C++ app.
ozzzycome up with a non trivial solution for the Reimann zeta function and there's a cool million for you
jsoftMilitary shit aye. Over priced, bloated, pain in the ass.
Spirit532well, this one is somewhat worth the price
jsoftWhat does it do ?
jsoftOr is that classified
Spirit5321536x1024 @ 1000 fps
jsoftOh right
Spirit532for 8 seconds I believe
Spirit5328GB of RAM, do the math
Spirit532the main circular connector is so huge and heavy you can build a wooden house using nothing but it and a box of nails
Spirit532it's a good 1/4 of the camera body's length
pfred1Spirit532 at least you can use it for something
Spirit532I have an 11kg high speed camera I can use for that
Spirit532(that one works and the company gave me full software for free)
pfred1the Velvet Underground played their first gig at my high school
pfred1how cool is that?
Mad7ScientistSpirit532, what's the reward?
Spirit532a good sum
tgeekyusually people specify an amount
Spirit532I don't have an amount
Spirit532if it's hard, I'll pay more
tgeekygive an order of magnitude at least
Mad7ScientistThis could really help us out Chewy, these people seem desperate.
Spirit532... okay, maybe in the $50-250 range
tgeekyMad7Scientist: did you ask that question just to setup a star wars joke?
Spirit532really depends on how much work it is
Mad7ScientistHow much when we get to ALderon?
Mad7Scientistuh oh
Mad7ScientistIt's destroyed who cares
Spirit532damn that's cold
OwenBarfieldThat did sound like something Hansolo would say
password4some people you should not piss off
Spirit532do not stick your dick in crazy
password4I'm more impressed
Mad7ScientistDo I have to get it to work for you or you send me the software and I get it to work?
Spirit532Mad7Scientist, if you have a Visario g2 handy.. sure!
Mad7Scientistso I have to supply you with the working software setup
Spirit532it's on a local network, and I can't(can't!) make it public, I don't want to risk wrecking the only interface I have
jsoftIsn't electronics and computer shit just the bizzo?
Spirit532the applet talks to, so if you can bypass that...
Spirit532whatever you want, really.
Spirit532but I believe it starts to communicate with the camera right after it launches, though - if you can get it to tell me "camera not available" or something other than a hard crash, I'll consider that major progress
OwenBarfieldWow, the squirrels gnawed off two fingers and one gonad. She actually trained the squirrels to do it. That's a bizarre story, password4
Spirit532password4, and yes, I am tinkering with a speedcam!
Spirit532to your very late question
Spirit532a very late reply
password4is that a traffic cam?
password4or a high speed cam
Spirit532high speed
password4oh cool
Spirit532the full name is "Weinberger SpeedCam Visario g2 1500"
Mad7ScientistSpirit532, where is the software?
Mad7ScientistOwenBarfield, password4 is the squirrel attack victim a passed out alcoholic?
OwenBarfieldok. too offtopic to respond, sorry
Mad7ScientistThe story on that site about the woman from Oak Park (Chicago) who ran over her hair dresser with her car seems like it was machine translated in to English.
Spirit532Mad7Scientist, on my PC, I have it all
Spirit532the entire archive
Spirit532and a backup of the whole filesystem if you want to tinker with it
Spirit532the jnlp downloads some things from the camera, but you can easily change that to be local
Spirit532(they're the same files)
password4playing around with highspeed cams seems so fun
Spirit532it is very fun, I have 5 now.
Spirit532ACTION is a bit of an addict
password4how do you afford that many
Spirit532if you ever visit Belarus, you're free to touch and fondle all of them
Spirit532eBay! :D
Spirit532this one was my most expensive score yet and it still hasn't gone close to $1000
Spirit532(if you ignore the ridiculous $326 tax our customs shafted me with)
password4aplied science had a highspeed panning rig
Spirit532my cameras are too big to do that economically
user3209I would have 5 thermal cameras if I didn't practially bankrupt myself to buy one
Spirit532the only one that's small enough is a tiny 1-inch cube that has a thick USB3 cable
cheateryou'd have 5 if you didn't have 1?
user3209well, if I had money
Spirit532I'm looking for thermal but my budget is a liiiiiiitle small right now
Spirit532(see: shafted by customs)
user3209I got a hacked E4
Spirit532ah, the classic
user3209320x240 for $800
Spirit532shit turned gold with a few clicks
cheaterSpirit532: how fast is that high speed cam?
Spirit532the USB3 one?
user3209there's nothing else even close to that pixel/dollar
Spirit532Boson cores
Spirit532around $1k for 320x240 @ 60hz
user3209yeah, but then you have to build the rest of the camera
cheaterhow is that high speed?
Spirit532cheater, thermal
user3209still 1k is a lot less than what I was looking at
Spirit532two topics at the same time :D
user3209a few years ago
Spirit532user3209, you can get a FLIR A65 640x512 @ 30hz on eBay for around $1500-2100
Spirit532still too much for me
user3209in the US maybe
Spirit532well yeah, exports will blow
user3209I can't export that shit to Australia if it's about 9Hz
Spirit532actually, you can
Spirit532I think Australia is in both Wassenaar and STA
cheaterSpirit532: i was asking how fast the high speed cams are that you have
user3209still, the last thing I need is to spend more on thermal cameras
Spirit532down by speed:
Spirit532Weinberger Visario g2 1500(this one) - 1536x1024 @ 1kfps, colour, 8GB(I think, not confirmed yet)
Spirit532NAC Memrecam fx K5 - 1280x1024 @ 1kfps, mono, 4GB(functions well)
cheaterwhat does 8GB mean?
Spirit532image RAM
cheaterah ok
user3209I got 320x240@9Hz which is fine because the human eye can only see 1Hz
Spirit532then a Redlake MotionScope M1 - 640x512 @ 1kfps, I think either 1 or 2GB(not sure), colour
Spirit532(this one is tiny and runs on FireWire, handy)
password4someone get a highspeed thermal cam!
user3209maybe 2Hz if you blink really fast
Spirit532and then the smallest one I have - 26x26x30mm
Spirit532Ximea MQ022CG-CM
Spirit5322048x1088 @ 164fps, colour, USB3(at about 330MB/s to disk)
Spirit532and you can also not count the thing you can "call" a high speed camera
Spirit532Redlake MotionScope 1000S...
Spirit532it's from 1998... and I think does around 320x160 @ 1kfps for 0.6s or thereabouts
Spirit532It's not functional and scrapped.
cheaterSpirit532: are you also into stuff that can capture colour precisely?
Spirit532might be, depends on how much
Spirit532need to calibrate my displays so would be handy to have one
Mad7Scientistkmc, is Rust one of those PHP languages that rusts out?
Mad7ScientistSpirit532, do I download your archive and double click some binary that will open with Java?
cheaterwhat are you talking about
Spirit532the app that should control my camera is not working
Spirit532it's a java jnlp webstart applet
Spirit532it crashes at some weird dependency
cheatersorry about that
Spirit532and I'm offering money to anyone who can unfuck it
cheaterregarding spectrometers
cheateri'm mostly interested in something that'll let me measure a real object
cheaterand help me figure out how to mix paint pigments to reach a similar spectrum
Spirit532this is your best bet
Spirit532for the simplest AIO solution
password4i;ve always wanted to build a sort of spetrometer
Spirit532it ain't cheap, but it's Hamamatsu
password4but i dont know where to get filters
Spirit532can't go wrong with them
password4atleast not for the money I'm prepared to spend
Spirit532it's not mechanical - hasn't been for yeeeeeeeeeeears
cheaterhow much does that cost
Spirit532it... IS Hamamatsu, after all
cheateroh just noticed the price
Spirit532it's a complete MEMS spectrometer
Spirit532AMAZING micromachining
Spirit532look at this
Spirit532this is chipscale
cheaterhow is that different from what they were doing 20 years ago
cheaterthere's still grating
cheaterand a cmos array
Spirit532except in a finger-sized device
Spirit532and $395
Spirit532not $39 995
cheaterthose old isa spectrometers are pretty cheap
cheaterand the sensor is not much bigger
cheatermaybe a matchbox
Spirit532the mechanics are bigger
Spirit532grating, optical path
cheateryeah they are
Spirit532that stuff cost a LOT back then
cheateras i said
cheaterabout the size of a matchbox
password4hmmm , finger sized device
Spirit532must be a filter then
cheaterthat's still practical i mean it doesn't have to be tiny right? there's nothing wrong about that
cheaternah it's a grate
Spirit532this source code scared the fuck out of me just now
Spirit532 public static final SENSOR_TYPE SR_GREY = new SENSOR_TYPE(1);
jsoftSpirit532, what source code
Spirit532my camera has "1" as sensor type specified in the configs
Spirit532but I can clearly see with my naked eye that it's coloour
Spirit532so much diffraction
jsoftIs it bullshit 'abstracted' OO crap?
Spirit532this is so object-oriented you'll be disoriented
Spirit532... what a pun
jsoftlol factor 3.4
jsoftI hate obsessive OO stuff.
Spirit532the guy who wrote it was a maniac
Spirit532this is on a 4K display and look at the scrollbar
jsoftOh what the fuck
Spirit532that's just the camera helper jar
jsoftFucking hell
jsoftSee thats the shit I hate about what dickheads who subscribe to the 'EVERYTHING MUST BE AN OBJECT' bullshit
Spirit532OOP sux
jsofthigh five
Spirit532I make classes when I want to make the code simpler and look clean
tpw_rulesthat's what java forces
Spirit532not when I want an integer to have its own .dll
tpw_rulesjava is terrible
Spirit532java is very terrible
Spirit532which is why I'm offering people money to make this thing run
Spirit532and just shoo it away
password4Spirit532, might be good news
jsoftI think I lost my best mate because he was such a java fiend
tpw_ruleshow much
Spirit532depends on how much work, probably in the $50-250 area
password4i would rather take multiple small objects instead of one gian lump one
Spirit532are you intrigued by the offer, tpw_rules? :D
jsoftpassword4, yeah but it gets to the point where if its 'abstracted' too much, its very hard to get an idea of wtf is even going on
Spirit532jsoft, THIS THIS THIS
Spirit532I have no fucking clue what the app is doing
Spirit532it does an init... and then it crashes shortly thereafter, and I managed to track down WHERE
tpw_rulesSpirit532: uh no i have too much shit on my plate already
Spirit532but beyond that crash, if it crashes...
Spirit532I'm pretty much fucked
jsoftSpirit532, got any error msgs at least?
Spirit532well yes of course
Spirit532that's how I found this crash
Spirit532it dies exactly there
tpw_rulesthe only good thing about java is that it's trivial to decompile
Spirit532the DxVideoPlugin is a C++ library
Spirit532that is also made by those fuckers
Spirit532beyond that I have no idea.
jsoftWhat do you mean, crashes
Spirit532I don't remember the exact error
Spirit532but it's something to do with a function invokation
Spirit532invocation? English is hard at 7 AM
Spirit532it's an error within Java, but every log and trace points to that dll, including java error logs
jsoftIt's hard at 16:50 after 6 bourbons :)
tpw_ruleswhat if you just comment it out
Spirit532you can't comment things out and recompile
jsoftFuck the plugin
jsoftwhy not?
tpw_ruleswhy not
Spirit532java hates that
tpw_rulesit prolly has a nop opcode
Spirit532not to mention I have to resign everything
Spirit532yeah nop is just 00 in the jvm
Spirit532but it doesn't work - it triggers a chain reaction of death
tpw_rulesme too thanks
tpw_rulesjust waste some time with the stack?
tpw_rulespush/pop 1 over and over
Spirit532it's not the nop that kills it
Spirit532it's something else
Spirit532down the line, I guess?
newcoderSome android phone have battery fixed with it, we can't replace battery, so when the battery is damaged, what would we do?
Spirit532you can pad it with nops to the proper length
Spirit532replace the battery
jsoftnewcoder, replace battery
tgeekyjoe_z: I found it. The trace that goes from LO to V switch pin 4 is blown off the board. it's literally floating off the board a bit
jsofttgeeky, how is that a problem?
tgeekyjsoft: because the LO input doesn't connect to signal ground
jsoftMe, semantics
jsoftmeh, even
Spirit532anyway, I should go to bed now
Spirit532I'll continue this tomorrow and see if anyone is up to grab some cash
newcoderFor example Huawei phone
tgeekyjoe_z: that fixed it baby!!!
tgeekyjoe_z: and furthermore, the voltage ranges are now exactly back in calibration to where the meter was when it was working before
tgeekyall the way down to the last digit
joe_ztgeeky, that's good
tgeekyjoe_z: you have no idea how happy this makes me. thanks so much for your help.
joe_zno problem
tgeekyjoe_z: lots of things make sense in this context, too: with the LO jack just disconnected, all measurements were being made through the LO SENSE jack
tgeekywhich is why voltage and current measurements were close-ish, but off, and why resistance measurements were even further off
tgeekyjoe_z: as for why I didn't notice this blown trace before; it was tucked underneath the switches :(
joe_zthat'll do it
tgeekyi cut the trace off at the grounding point that I soldered a bodge wire to, so there should be no extra noise sitting in there
tgeekyjoe_z: I think the thing that really confused me overall was that it worked at all; had it simply not worked I would have started at the inputs and carefully worked back
joe_ztgeeky, that does explain why it read 220K high
tgeekyjoe_z: hah, it really was 220k high lol
tgeekyjoe_z: and now i have a good meter to go by to fix the 2nd one, and tons of experience. thanks again man.
joe_zyep, no problem
JoeLlamayay joe_z fixed it :)
joe_znah, we just bounced some ideas around
JoeLlamawell that fixed it joe_z (:
JoeLlamasometimes engineering IS bouncing ideas around
JoeLlamaI want soba noodles
JoeLlamaI yam an ECE and CS
JoeLlamaand bouncing ideas is a coolthing
JoeLlamaI have no life :)(
Drakonite(I was suggesting that "sometimes" is an understatement)
Drakonitehmm... I'm trying to figure out an easy way to build an automated wire cutter
JoeLlamawell fun to invent Drakonite but they do have automated wire/cutter/strippers you can buy
JoeLlamaI wish I could afford on
DrakoniteI have a bunch of small (~1cm) bits of bent wire to make at some point in the next couple months, and have been pondering how to build a machine to automate the process
Drakonitecurrently the bit I'm not sure on is cutting the wire after it's bent
password2cut it before its bent?
password2how do you want to bend them?
Drakonitepassword2, that would make it much harder to automatically bend, and would still need the same sort of solution
jsoftDid you hear the news? Flea86 is slacking again. Making excuses for not shipping our boards already :P
Drakoniteit's a shape roughly like: _/\_ basically acts as a solderable contact that plugs in to a terminal.I think I can get a stepper to feed proper amounts of wire, then a servo to do the bending
password2well Drakonite there is nearly infinite ways a wire can be bend
password2and your solution will depend on that
password2unless you want to build a cnc wire bender
Drakonitethe bending part I have worked out
Drakoniteit's the chopping it off bit I'm unsure of
DrakoniteI need to test it I suppose, but I think cutting the wire requires more force than I could get with a servo pressing on the handle of a pair of flush cutters
Drakonitewith one of the servos I have laying around and easy to access, I should clarify. which are cheap servos.
jaggzlips are too feminine.. apple is too apple/cherry
theBearthat's why i cut mine off, and i never keep the doctor away
jaggzthat was supposed to go to my private irc server where I'm discussing logo submissions for a line she's working on
jaggz(oops.. to my wife)
theBearyeah sure, pffft... i see through your ruse
tgeekyjaggz: your secret is safe. <fruit> is too <fruit>/<another fruit> isn't going to get stolen today
jaggzI got your response and it was unhelpful, theBear :)
theBearaww, i'll try harder next time :(
theBearheh, i can't help but imagine that she is doing something involving a little mrs talking apple now
theBearif anyone isn't at work and wants to be shocked and/or offended by a cartoon, lookup aqua teen episode "Bible Fruits" i pretty sure is the one
basuotokoanyone is awake?
zap0no.. it's 4pm everyone is a sleep
Drakonitewhat? no, I'm Drakonite
password2Drakonite: get mini bolt cutters
Drakonitepassword2, I'm trying not to spend money :P
Drakoniteand actually, I just tested and this wire needs way less force to cut than I thought
Drakonitebut for some reason all of these servos are continuous rotation >_<
theBeari got some like that, maybe 6" ish from jaws to back end... useful for a ton of stuff, including but not limited to: pot shaft shortening, laptop hinge disassembling, novelty size padlocks erm, i'm sure the list goes on a tiny bit, but you try just those examples without a pair... not much fun
password2y pair have cut wre maybe more than 50 000 times
theBearmine certainly done a lot of work, the plastic-dip handles are looking a bit worse for wear, but the rest is like new.... bolt cutters are awesome, specially teeny ones
password2i use mine to make chainmail
theBearone mans wire-cutter is another mans chain-maker ;-)
theBearor err, sometimes the same mans
theBeari'm out, laters
DrakoniteI have a customized pair of what I call "blunt nose dikes" that I used to use for chainmail.
Drakonite(tip broke on pair of dikes, so I ground them down to a blunt nose)
password2I've always been tempted to afix a tiny mechanical counter on mine
kmchad an argument with a friend -- is it possible to buy say 1000A 600V IGBTs or thyristors? BART uses three phase AC motors and allegedly still uses tube based inverters (custom)
kmcsurely even a very expensive off the shelf part would be a better deal?
Casperit may be possible
Casperbut sometime the cost to upgrade is an issue
Casperripping the old system and putting the new one in place will be expensive
Casperkmc: read that?
Casperhello jaggz !
Casperhow's your neural network going? still hasn't started to want to take over yet?
jaggzthey are.. just not mine.
kmcBART does everything different / wrong
electrobotjaggz just linked to Progressive Growing of GANs for Improved Quality, Stability, and Variation - YouTube
kmcseems like a train under full throttle may draw upwards of 3 kA... but there are multiple inverters involved... also IGBTs can be paralleled
kmcI think all new NYC subway rolling stock uses IGBTs
kmcbart is just now starting to taper their wheels, something most railroads figured out in the 19th century
kmcdue to not tapered wheels the system is LOUUUUUDDDDD as FauCK
kmcbart info
password2kmc: get teh people that repair your motor to suggest an upgrade
password2whose bart?
kmcBART is the subway in SF
kmcit's a bit derpy
kmcthey built it with cloth seats so that middle class white people would ride the train -- "it has all the glamor of air travel!"
kmcflash forward 40 years, those seats are all soaked through with hobo piss and spilled crack
kmcit's built on a nonstandard rail gauge
kmcit's built with nonstandard rail profiles
kmcAND they keep building extensions which use different incompatible systems and can't thru-run
kmcthere's only one connection across the Bay and it's often getting shut down due to train breakdown or "police incident" (read: crackhead attempt to rob someone)
kmcSF is basically a third world country. and you'll pay top dollar to live here
eirirskmc: sounds like something urban explorers would love
kmcpart of THX-1138 was filmed in the as yet incomplete transbay tube
SculptorSF = Sierra Feone?
Sculptorere these fishing glasses good
Loshkikmc: it's true. SF has become a third world country, at 1st world prices.
kmcyes. it's the very rich and the very poor -- the middle have been driven out by awful policy over decades
kmcwhen you have an abandoned decaying gas station, 1 block from a rapid transit stop, in the most expensive housing mkt in the country, and nobody can manage to build housing there over the span of a decade
kmcthat's like the definition of market failure
kmcliving in the mission was so depressing
kmcbetween the awful land use, crime and homeless people everywhere, and all the "kill the techies" type rhetoric
kmcfuck all that
kmcanyone who wants to kill this queer techie better pack some armor piercing rounds
kmccome at me you better not miss
kmcpeople who bitch and moan when a public transit project might remove parking because Latino culture = car culture and therefore removing parking is a racist microaggression
kmcI mean you can't make this shit up
password2kmc: i think you need to live in a 3rd world country for a few weeks
kmcand these people are taken seriously by the politicians and get veto power over any kind of improvement
kmcpassword2: I've been to some pretty poor countries and not seen anything as bad as mid-market or 16/Mission
Drakonitethat was about the fastest I've ever reacted to anything in my life
DrakoniteACTION just touched the tip of his iron while soldering
password2kmc sure thing fluffy
kmcthey want to "prevent gentrification" by keeping everything shitty and "prevent displacement" by... banning the production of housing?
kmcit's amazing
password2how else do you clean the tip without touching it?
Drakonitepassword2, well, it did leave some black soot in my finger
password2Drakonite: its a technique i almost prefer to the sponge , use my finger to clean the tip
password2also thats what she said
DrakoniteI generally prefer not burning myself though
Drakoniteit is something I tell people though... if you solder, at some point you're going to touch the iron, and it is not going to be pleasant. I guess I was due for another round
kmcwhen I was growing up my parents didn't let me solder for this reason :/
kmcor at least discouraged it
kmcthey were kind of overprotective
kmc's ok, I was mostly into software and computer parts
kmcACTION has a tremendous size bruise all over her lower abdomen from falling on a wooden post the other day D:
Drakonitedid they have an issue with you cooking? I think the worst burn I've gotten was from cooking
kmci wasn't interested in cooking
kmcso it didn't come up
kmcbut I agree, cooking is more dangerous than soldering
kmcespecially if you do any deep frying
kmcwe deep fry stuff in the wok pretty often
kmcmy wife will put on her lab coat from chem lab
Drakoniteeven worse than the burn on the back of my hand from when I touched the exhaust of my dad's motorcycle when I was a little kid
Drakoniteah, yeah, oil can be nasty. my bad cooking burn was from the inside of an oven though
password2i dont think I have ever burned on a solder iron
password2kmc: my parents were extremely overprotective , and now i dont have the guts to do many things
kmcsteam can also be very bad -- in addition to carrying the heat of 100°C, the condensation of steam onto your skin as vapor produces "latent heat" -- like evaporative cooling in reverse
kmcs/as vapor/as liquid/
kmcI have burned myself on a soldering iron but never an injury I cared about even the next day
kmchave hurt myself much worse doing other supposedly safer things
kmcmeanwhile I've taken all kinds of illegal drugs and none of them have done nearly as much damage as alcohol
kmcpeople are bad at risk assessment
stvnhow are they
stvnwelcome flea
intranickstvn: who the fuck
OwenBarfieldI always keep all my tools clean, especially the sharp ones, because I know that eventually at some point, I'm going to get cut by one of them over time
stvndefinitely the dogs
OwenBarfieldthat warning about soldering by kmc is a little disturbing, because I"m starting to solder things now
stvnalways up to no goo
intranickstvn: what kinda dogs
OwenBarfieldand I"m going to purchase a soldering iron
DrakoniteOwenBarfield, conversation started because 20min ago I apparently thought it would be a good idea to touch my iron while soldering
kmcsharp knives can be safer than dull ones
kmca dull knife will still cut you
kmca sharp knife can be controlled precisely and with the minimum necessary force
intranicksharp knives are almost always safer
slothguess who got an email from elvis wang
OwenBarfieldso, true. People are bad at risk assessment. They think texting and driving is safer than getting a flu shot. Chances of a negative consequence of a flu shot: 1/1 million. Chances of a negative consequence of texting and driving, probably like 1/20 or higher.
stvnwell he may have a lot of fake jewellery but you aint never seen no one to act nobody as skilled as me
Drakonitekmc, dull knives are worse than sharp ones. a dull knife doesn't cut as much as it tears, which is more painful :P
intranicklets say you're cutting errrmergerrd kerrerts with a chef knife
intranickif its sharp it will go through with minimal pressure
intranickand you can easily guide it
intranickif its dull you have to give that much more pressure and cant control it as uch
OwenBarfieldBut when you pierce skin, there's always a danger of infection. Scrapes are less invasive.
intranickjust about everything we do in life has risk of infection
zap0like yo' mom
OwenBarfieldMost everyday things we do have minimal risks, and there are so many simple things we can do to keep those risks to a minimum. Like just washing your hands when you get back from work, avoiding cigarette smoke or getting inoculated before you travel, or wearing a seatbelt.
OwenBarfieldLittle effort, big rewards
tawryes @ sharp knives
tawrbut then even that has limits, like my edc, which i keep sharp enough to split atoms
tawreverytime she's bit me, she's hit bone
OwenBarfieldSo, no, not everything we do has a risk of infection
tawrOwenBarfield: err name one thing that doesn't have that disk?
tawrerr risk
OwenBarfieldInfection from what?
password2edc i keep semi blunt
tawryou're the one saying there are things that have 0 risk of infection, i was curious to what that is?
OwenBarfieldI said most things we do have minimal risks
password2OwenBarfield: i would not agree with you
password2well regarding minimal effort big reward
tawrpassword2: the stupidest one i did
password2tawr: ?
tawri was at a pawnshop checking to see if there was any good cheap junk for a random project, no idea in mind. i find a pool stick, it's real wobbly, i take it apart, and i see the threaded insert is loose in one side
tawrso i pull out my edc and use the spine to try and tighten it so i know if i should buy it or not
OwenBarfieldFor example, if you wash your hands regularly and properly everyday, it reduces your odds of getting sick or some kind of infection by a large margin. You may spend less than 5 min a day doing this, and you're reducing your risk of illness probably by at least 30 or 40%, which is quite a lot.
tawrand it slips and slices my finger to the bone when i'm in line, guy behind me was watching me and i saw him jump. i didn't say a word and managed to pinch it tight enough i didn't leak everywhere
tawrdude kept looking at me, i refused to acknowledge anything happened
tawri had just sharpened and stropped to a mirror finish the day before and it hadn't cut anything (but me) heh.
stvnyou're off ya head
tawri ended up not buying the pool stick.
stvndid you dead
password2i have this one , i removed the belt clip years ago
tawr1095 can hold quite an edge, i had just reprofiled to 25 degrees with a nice belly and stropped til it was a mirror
OwenBarfieldI had read somewhere that when people living in western countries started washing their hands regularly, including physicians before and after surgery, it reduced the death rate by a huge amount and also increased life expectency dramatically
stvni shattered the capacitors
password2i wonder what angle my cleaver is at , I made it a lot shallower than it was
stvndid you interested in some?
password2OwenBarfield: that is a double edge sword , kinda
password2if you suddenly reduce the ammount of 'germs' you are exposed to , then on average you'd be healthier , atleast initially
password2but too clean can hamper immune system development
OwenBarfieldthat only applies to young chiildren
password2or cowshit
OwenBarfieldwhen their immune system is still developing, it's good to expose them to a moderate amount of germs
password2you know how we treated pox?
password2initially it started by purpousfully incoculating people with cow pox
password2even adults
OwenBarfieldBut any human being who is exposed to huge bacterial or viral loads, will get sick
Drakonitethat's how we are dealing with chicken pox still, and it's causing lots of issues...
password2and everyone exposed to too few could have increased sensitivity
password2Drakonite: to be honest , it is much more refined now
Ducklebut seriously. Wash your danm hands
password2before or after your rectal exam?
OwenBarfieldYeah. Just wash your hands, especially if you were shaking hands with a lot of people or handling dirty things at work
Duckleor dirtily handling things
password2does your mom count as a dirty thing?
DuckleI can ask
Duckleman, you already overflowed back to 2
DuckleI guess you're an unsigned nibble
password2unsigned nipple
Duckleno! bad password, bad
Duckle4 bits
DuckleI really should stop being silly in here and instead pay attention to the lecture
OwenBarfieldAfter a chickenpox vaccine was introduced to Canada more than a decade ago, hospitalizations fell by up to 84 per cent in some provinces, Dr. Salvadori said. She noted there were 115 deaths in 1995 in the United States attributed to chickenpox, compared to 16 deaths in 2003 after the vaccine was introduced
OwenBarfieldI just googled it.
OwenBarfieldofftopic, anyway
tawrDuckle: where's the fun in that :)
Duckletawr: Exactly! :P
OwenBarfieldthat's weird. They didn't have a chickenpox vaccine in the USA prior to 1995?
password2electronics is about interfacing with the world , so I think most things are ontopic here ;d
OwenBarfieldMay be they did. But the new one in 2003 was just more effective
Drakonitepassword2,, so much is off topic
DrakoniteOwenBarfield, no, the common thing to do (which I think is still the most common thing) is to intentionally expose children to it
Drakonitethe theory being, as a child you're unlikely to have serious complications, but as an adult it is potentially fatal
Drakonite...except we've been finding out more and more that doing that can cause various complications when you get older
OwenBarfieldsome of those people who died of chickenpox were electronic engineers. Too bad they didn't get their chickenpox vaccine.
Drakonitealso, the idea that you can only get chickenpox once is a myth; you can get it multiple times, however after you've recovered from it once the chance of contracting it is reduced significantly
password2^ :D
Duckleman that chickenpox thing was so exadurated
password2well and even if you get it again , the severity is reduced
tawrmaybe you should pay attention in class Duckle
password2or there is a good chance it is
password2what class though/
OwenBarfieldyeah. It's so complicated when you get pricked by a needle, and your shoulder hurts. That happened to me when I got my flu vaccine. So complicated and inconvenient.
Duckleback, irc client borked on me
tgeekyDuckle: you missed nearly everyone calling you a fucking idiot
password2Duckle: in what class are you?
Duckleelectro magnetism. I've had this particular one before
Drakoniteon topic: more and more I'm finding myself putting a lot more effort in to making cables and just general polish on how I connect things together
tawr"How To Spell 'Exaggerated' 101", password2
Ducklethe chicken pox is the H1A1 right?
tawrDrakonite: it gets worse. goldplating is a disease, i'm terminal.
Duckleor something like that
Drakonitetawr, he's clearly not had that class yet
Drakonitetawr, :| @ that pun
Duckle"hurr durr spelling" :)
password2Drakonite: i call lies
tawrDrakonite: which one? the class one or the gold plating one
password2you are pretending to make cables , I demand you show pictures! :P
Drakonitetawr, the terminal pun
tawrDrakonite: you know it was fucking good
tawrand you're just pissed you didn't think of it.
Drakoniteyeah, sure, that pun was golden
Ducklethat pun was great
Drakonitepassword2, :| I just left the workbench and sat down for a food
Ducklebut, was that chicken stuff you talked about the H1A1 virus?
Duckleor am I being confused here because it's got an english name really close to the danish name but is something different?
Drakoniteno, H1A1 is a type of flu virus
Duckleoh, nvm then
Duckleyeah that was called, directly translated "chicken flu" here
OwenBarfieldH1N1 is a flu virus
Drakoniteunless I'm mistaken, chicken pox is much more closely related to small pox than it is to the flu
Duckleooh that's those red dots
archivistnah Herpes
Ducklethat kids usually get
Duckleand is horribleif adults get
OwenBarfieldThe same flu vaccine that protects against seasonal flu also protects against the H1N1 swine flu strain. You can get it as a shot or as a nasal spray. Either way, it "teaches" your immune system to attack the real virus.
archivistit is related to cold sores too
DuckleI just remember back then there was this huge hysteria around H1A1, and the company that made the vaccine said, after being pressured to sell it, that it wasn't ready and they took no responsibility
password2someone here had mupms , I really hope i dont get it
Duckleand then it was sold. It's probably more than fully developed now though
kmcthere have been some tainted vaccines sold. look up polio vaccine and SV40
kmcdoesn't mean vaccines are unsafe overall
kmclike any other product
Duckleoh no not at all
Ducklevaccines all the way
DuckleI preffered the ones in sugarcubes as a kid though :P
DrakoniteOwenBarfield, uh, not quite. H1N1 notation is just a way of naming the different flu viruses, based on their characteristics. Flu vaccines do not inoculate against all strains; only the strain that is predicted to be an issue that year
OwenBarfieldLast year's H1N1 vaccine was extremely effective. We probably had a really mild flu season last year in Canada partly due to how effective the flu vaccine was that year
kmcsome people think though that the SV40 contamination in early polio vaccines is responsible for an increase in soft tissue cancers over the past few decades
kmcit's probably impossible to know with high confidence whether that's true
Drakonitekmc, I'd be more likely to blame the tons of lead that were pumped in to the atmosphere during the same people's life times
Caelumis there anywhere I can buy like, a box that will put a resistor on each channel of an rca or mini input, preferrably adjustable
DrakoniteCaelum, you mean on an audio or video signal? It's called a pad.
OwenBarfieldPolio vaccines are used internationally across the world, are very safe and very effective. In fact, polio was almost completely wiped off the face of the Earth circa 2007 thanks to Rotary International and the WHO
kmcCaelum: you can probably find a resistor decade box with a proper input/output
CaelumDrakonite, kmc: yeah audio, thanks!
OwenBarfieldMillions of children and adults were safely inoculated, especially in many developing nations in Africa
OwenBarfieldand Asia
DuckleOwenBarfield: Wait polio is still a thing?
Drakoniteuh, yeah. polio vaccine was a good thing. Not sure what that has to do with anything :P
DuckleI thought polio was wiped
DrakoniteDuckle, in places where people are refusing vaccinations
CaelumDuckle: it's a huge problem in Pakistan, the fundie muslims declared jihad against the polio vaccine workers, and polio is on the rise
Duckleanti vax is such an infuriating trend
OwenBarfieldBut thanks to some political problems and warring factions in some African countries, polio was not completely eradicated in those nations
Voopim anti vax but not because im retarded
Voopi just have a phobia of needles
Ducklethat's different
Drakonitethanks to dipship anti-vaxxers polio is not eradicated in the US either
OwenBarfieldyeah, those stupid and ignorant anti-vaxers use fake news and Facebook to spread their ignorance and threaten people's health
Ducklestill dumb, but that's phobias for you
DuckleI mean, the definition of a phobia is "unreasonable fear" so yea
Ducklebummer man
Voopive never been vaccinated for anything
kmcthe CIA also used the pretext of a vaccine campaign to try to find bin laden via genetic testing
kmcand of course, there are many instances of fatal unethical human experimentation under the guise of vaccination
jan64there were like 37 reported polio cases worldwide in 2016.
jan64It's pretty close to getting wiped out.
kmcso yeah I think muslims might be a little skeptical of white ppl showing up with vaccines "we're here to save you!"
kmceven if they really are, most fo the time
kmcnot disagreeing that vast majority of anti-vax people in the USA are dipshits
OwenBarfieldyou probably get more mercury from eating a can of Tuna fish than you would if you got 100 flu vaccines in less than a year
kmcbut the anti-anti-vax people are also a smug echo chamber
password2ACTION gives Drakonite a lead ennima
Ducklekmc: How come?
kmcmany of them would completely flip their shit if you even mentoined any past instance of vaccines causing harm
password2yeah , i give fuckall about my spelling today
NGC3982wait a minute
kmceven though some of these are well documented
DuckleI don't think anyones arguing about people allergic to vaccines not getting them
NGC3982this anti-vax thing sounds like some meta thing
kmcit's actually.... a kind of complicated issue??
Voopor they want you arrested for not getting vaccinated
Duckleor people with phobias like Voop
Drakoniteflu shots are the one that doesn't make sense for everyone to get; depending on your health and age brackets the flu shots can be more likely to cause problems than protect you
NGC3982something tells me that the anti-vax community is super small, and the anti-anti-vaxer community is the giant echo chamber..
kmcthere's enough anti-vax to cause measurable upticks in preventable diseases :(
Ducklesomething tells me either end of the spectrum is a loud minority
Voopthey are both vocal minorites
kmcI think that vaccine manufacturing technology is much better now and something like SV40 is very unlikely to get into the stream of medications, and even if so, it beats having polio
Voopmost people dont give a shit
OwenBarfieldelderly people and vulnerable children, or people with compromised immune systems benefit the most from flu shots
kmcthe anti-anti-vax seem like Reddit atheists to me (and probably overlap heavily)
OwenBarfieldand when healthy people get flu shots, they also are helping people who are vulnerable, obviously, because there are less sick people who will be encountering those vulnerable people
Voopthe logic of anti vaxers is pretty entertaining though
kmcpeople who go out of their way to make fun of anti-vax people without even knowing about some of the relevant history here
NGC3982kmc: yes, that is a fact. what isnt a fact is if that rise became because the anti-vaxing community grew by itself, or if it grew because the anti-anti movement started ranting (again). that kind of meta shit is not unusual today (i.e. trump).
kmcsmug internet douches basically
DuckleOwenBarfield: Yep, herd immunity
Drakonitefor my age/health, the chance of complications from the flu shot is higher than the chance of complications from actually catching the flu
n2Which is why you have to rely on others
Duckleeey nitrogen is back
n2And, that's why anti-vaxers kill themselves and others
Voopherd immunity and all that
kmcI think the vaccines == autism thing is just based on temporal coincidence i.e., kids with autism tend to show it around the same time they get scheduled vaccines
zap0ECHO *echo* echo... opinions.. echo opinions eeeecchhhhooooo.... this internet echo chamber is awesome
kmcthere's also a lack of empathy on the anti-anti-vax crowd for the desperation some of these parents must feel
Ducklen2: Do you have a feeling for how big the antivax stuff is here? I feel like it's tiny in Denmark
kmcanyway yes
kmcecho chambers gonna echo
Drakonitewith the flu, the best thing society could do is for people to wear masks and stay home when sick
kmcI'm sure we have our own echo chamber here on some issues
n2Duckle, it's increasingly big.
tawrrofl zap0 you just outted yourself eh
OwenBarfieldDrakonite. If you don't have egg allergies, your chance of getting a complication from a flu shot is less than 1/milllion
Duckleoh plz no :(
NGC3982im swedish, and i have never met an antivaxer.
n2Big enough to begin to be a problem
Ducklen2: I figured you'd be exposed to it more, being a bit older
OwenBarfieldless than 1 in one million
NGC3982i have met people who are sceptical, but they have also been literal scientists.
Vooptawr, i just burned the piss out of myself
n2It's still something you're not proud of
n2But the vaccine rates are dropping steadily
tawrVoop: fuck dude, how bad? go run slightly warm water over the area
Voopsplashing water on freshly poured aluminum is a bad idea
Ducklen2: I mean, the only people in my family with kids currently is my oldest older brother, and my cousin
n2Within a decade or so, herd immunity will be gone
tawrACTION smacks Voop
OwenBarfieldyour chance of getting the flu during flu season is about 1/8
tawrgo run water on it
Duckleand well, my cousins a nurse, so she's not antivax :)
tawrfor a few minutes
Voopjust when the last burn heals i get new ones
Ducklen2: oh man that makes me sad
Voopn2 why
DrakoniteOwenBarfield, minor complications (e.g. getting the flu from it) is higher than that. I'm not allergic to eggs but I do have a higher than normal chance of having issues with the flu shot.
DuckleI thought we had it pretty much as part of our tradition here to go with your kids to get them vaccinated
n2Voop, when the vaccine rates drop low enough
OwenBarfieldYour chance of dying or getting seriously ill from contracting the flu is probably about 100,000 times higher than getting a negative consequence from a flu vaccine
n2Then diseases begin to become endemic again
Drakonitetawr, YES THANK YOU. It is slightly warm water. Why does every idiot out there erroneously say cold water? :(
Vooplol i thought cold water was best
Ducklen2: Are you assuming the current decreasin rate of vaccinations will continue?
n2Duckle, yes.
kmcfive minutes of listening to Trump talk will cause more brain damage than a lifetime of mercury and lead
DrakoniteVoop, no. luke warm or slightly above. Cold water can put the flesh in shock, and will increase chance of scaring.
Ducklehopefully it won't. I mean, it'll reach a point where it's big enough of a problem to have campains run, and then it'll hopefully stop
n2Also, Duckle
n2Just a little fun fact
password2oh fuck
n2The HPV vaccine right?
OwenBarfieldI don't think the math gets any simpler than that. Flu complications are significant risks. Flu vaccines present no significant risks.
n2A biiiig thing, all those poor girls being ill?
password2first washing hand , then vaccines , now trump
n2An identical vaccine has been used in our neighbouring countries
n2No problems, at all.
n2It's classic conversion disorder.
n2People get whipped into a panic by the media.
tgeekyOwenBarfield: flu vaccines are like the 2nd level of vaccinations; whereupon we vaccinate against things that make us feel bad and smash our productivity for a short while
tgeekyas opposed to the big boy vaccines which prevent illnesses which ravage and murder tons of people
n2tgeeky, Influenza has a quite high mortality rate.
n2Maybe not for you, but for other people.
password2i think this generation has a fundamental issue with debating
tgeekyn2: i was already thinking of that objection
OwenBarfieldYEah, how many people die in the USA from flu complications each year?
password2not only debating , but thinking holistically about things
tgeekyn2: I suspect the number of people who are prevented from dying of the flu versus the number of people who take it ratio is like 10000/1
tgeekybut that's fine
n2OwenBarfield, between 3000 and 50000
tgeekyi'm a master bater
n2Depends on the flu variant of the year
tgeekymaster debater
tgeekysome kind of bater
OwenBarfieldCDC estimated that from the 1976-1977 season to the 2006-2007 flu season, flu-associated deaths ranged from a low of about 3,000 to a high of about 49,000 people.
n2tgeeky, In a bad year, that ratio is wrong.
tgeekyn2: that's fine. it's still not like polio
n2Nope. Polio came in waves, not every year.
n2The cumulative number of influenza deaths is probably higher.
n2Over a given decade, say.
tgeekyn2: well bad example then. measles? mumps?
tgeekywhich one is worst
tgeekyflu I think is probably the 20th century's worst disease
n2Flu can be really, really bad.
password2in a good year its wrong too!
n2Every now and again, a flu virus will occur that, well...
n2Kills young, healthy people.
n2Because it causes an immune overreaction.
Ducklen2: HPV vaccine?
password2mumps go bumps
DuckleI haven't followed the loca news much the last 2 years
n2The spanish flu is a good example of that.
tgeekyi'm going to guess and say that the spanish flu of 1917-1918 killed like 50% of the people who died in WWI
password2guys , i seriously hope i dont get mupms now
n2tgeeky, easily
n2That's what the fear around H5N1 is.
password2mumps even
n2That it is different enough to regular flu viruses to, well, cause an immune panic
password2someone in our office had it
n2In people with an intact immune syste
n2i.e. the young and healthy
tgeekythat's one of the most bizzare things about the flu, is that the strain decides the lethality to the target, not just the target's health in general
tgeekythose soldiers were probably otherwise very healthy people
n2Well, the strain has an effect.
n2Because some strains just cause the immune system to overreact.
n2It's not exactly known why
tawri believe they know why now n2
kmcdon't get mumps
tawriirc there was a whiteaper on phys
tgeekythat sounds like a superpower that a turn based RPG player would have
tgeekyi cast, cytokine storm!
tawr*whitepaper on elucidating the nature
n2tawr, we know what effect it causes
n2It is not certain /why/ the effect is caused
tawrno, the cause not the effect, n2
n2Is it because of some superagonist effect of certain antigens in certain strains?
n2Or is it because of some weird positive feedback loop?
tawri believe the latter and it's based on a specific antigen and enzyme it releases
tawrsec lemme find it
Duckleman you guys are educated on the subject
DuckleI just do what my doc tells me :o
n2ACTION *did* go to medical school
n2Didn't complete
n2But, yes
Duckleoh. right, I forgot that :P
tawrnot me
tawri just have been cursed with a memory that haunts me
n2Me, too, really
OwenBarfieldI just get my flu shot every fall, and I can't even remember the last time I had the flu. Probably like 13 years ago, before I started getting flu vaccines. But I also have a pretty healthy lifestyle and wash my hands a lot, and your flu vaccine is usually anywhere from 30 to 70% effective in buiding your antibodies for the right strains, depending on the year.
Voopis there a such thing as too much borax tawr
tawrso i try and fill it up with random technical information about every subject to try and minimize the total % of bad memories i have
Duckletawr: You mean you have good memory, or you have a particular bad one?
CaelumDrakonite, kmc: I used this thingie that I had, and it works perfectly, even with the tube stage of my amp!
tawran excellent one, Duckle
electrobotCaelum just linked to (Robot Check)
n2Is about the best
DocScrutinizer05ooh thanks for reminding me to get my flu vaccination
n2Me, too.
n2I had a "common disease" a few months ago
n2God damn it, I was ill
Duckletawr: Gotcha, it was just a bit ambigious :P Like, you could've been cursed with a memory of someone who got badly sick, or you're cursed with a good memory so you remember everything :P
Duckleand I need to kick the ":P" habbit
tawri mean, it's not really photographic, but it holds a lot
DuckleI have good long term memory
tawrlike, when i walk into a store, i remember exactly where everything is on every shelf i walk by
Ducklebut short term, nooope
n2tawr, the best treatment may be...
tawri know the exact spot for everything in home depot, for instance
n2Selective COX-2 inhibitors.
tawri should work there as a stocker
OwenBarfieldyeah, flu season already started, people, so get your flu shots now, and let's make this a safe flu season, like last year
Ducklen2: Did you have the "cold + sore throat + headache + fever" That went around recently?
n2Duckle, nope.
Ducklehad that a few weeks ago
n2I had an episode of, well... stomach problems.
n2Holy fucking shit, that was horrible
n2Didn't vomit, but
n2I slept like 20 hours straight
n2And was tired for a week
Ducklethe sleeping part
OwenBarfieldAlso, note, it takes 2 weeks to reach peak immunity after your flu shot, so take it easy after your shot
Ducklethe rest was probably horrible
DrakoniteCaelum, they are basically just resistors (or potentiometers in the case of adjustable ones), even though they sell some high priced ones for audio gear (those are mostly designed to handle higher wattage)
DuckleOwenBarfield: As noted earlier up, isn't flushots mainly for people at risk?
n2Duckle, well, by getting one yourself
Caelumthis knob is nice too, it's big and has a lot of range, most of these are really crap
n2You help people with poor immune systems
Ducklelike, I'm 22 overweight but otherwise decent health. why should I get it?
n2Who can't get the shot
Ducklen2: heh
n2That's the point of vaccination
n2Not your advantage
Ducklewho can't get shot
OwenBarfieldFlu shots are for everyone, especially those at risk of flu complications
n2But the advantage of the entire population
n2Unfortunately, we are too egotist for that today
CaelumDrakonite: I can finally use my headphones with this nice schiit amp and RCA tube, this is like amazing :D
DuckleI thought you were talking about those earlier, as only applying to people who needed it
FauxI don't get the shot because you feel like crap for ~3 days, and I'd rather gamble.
DrakoniteDuckle, ask your doctor if you should get it. Depending on your age and various health criteria, they may tell you not to
n2Faux, generally you don't
n2Your arm may hurt a bit
n2Duckle, some people have issues that cause them to not be able to get vaccinated
DrakoniteI've been told flat out by a doctor that I'm better off not getting it, at this stage of my life
n2They are also the most vulnerable w/r to complications
Drakonitealso, they do NOT plan for everyone to get it, there is a limited supply of flu vaccine
Duckleif it's anything like the tetanus shot then, atleast in my experience, it doesn't hurt other than in the arm for a day
n2Drakonite, it can be re-ordered though
n2The global supply is huge
n2And it does not take much more than 2 weeks to grow a new batch
n2Chicken eggs and viruses
n2That's all it takes
Duckleisn't flushots a new thing?
Ducklelike, through my childhood there were a few years of age where you went to get a shot
Ducklesome sugar cube vaccines when I was smaller, then a shot at 7 and some other ages I forgot
Drakoniten2, unless things have changed in the last 5-8 years, no, they can't just re-order more. They are incapable of producing enough for the entire population. It's just not possible.
DrakoniteDuckle, flu shots have been around a long time, but they talk about them more now
n2Drakonite, do you remember the swine flu?
n2Millions of doses was produced very, very quickly.
n2It is certainly possible
Voopthey said there would be a black president when pigs fly
Voopobama was elected then a few months later swine flu
Drakoniten2, Yes, I remember quite clearly being told not to get a vaccine if you weren't at risk, because there wasn't enough to go around. Priority was given to children and the elderly.
n2Drakonite, your country may have a poor deal
OwenBarfieldIn my province, about 90% of elderly people are encouraged to get flu shots, to protect them from illnesses that their weakened immune systems can't handle. The nurses who administer the flu shots will also ask you questions before the flu shot. But unless you have some serious active life-threating disease, like full-blown AIDS, or a severe egg allergy, or a history of anaphylaxis, it's...
OwenBarfield...not likely they will refuse to administer the shot.
Duckle Danish child vaccination program. It's in danish though so i don't know how interesting it is
DuckleFull pdf here:
Drakonitepassword2, if you really wanted to see: :P
Ducklethat's the extent of vaccinations I've got experience with, and then an extra tetanus shot a few years back when I got a bad cut at work
Drakonite(also, if you've ever dealt with steppers, you know that's not how the wires from the stepper normally look...)
OwenBarfieldAll this stuff about vaccinations should be in the #biology channel. Sorry.
DuckleDrakonite: I mean, they're just twisted, you didn't even braid them ;)
DuckleOwenBarfield: True
Ducklebetter than a dead channel though
DrakoniteDuckle, twisting is better than braiding, though I didn't think to counter-twist until it was too late though
DuckleDrakonite: Fair. I just like braiding :)
Duckleit's relaxing
OwenBarfieldBon soir
Drakonitethe IDC stuff is all keyed too, don't think that can be seen. Even the stock cables that aren't actually IDC connectors I've started using hot glue and a knife to add keys to
DuckleDrakonite: I mean, rotateable connectors on steppers are nice
Duckleit allows you to easilly reverse ther rotation if pinned right
DrakoniteI had another for that LA that had IC probes on it, but the wire was such crap I got fed up and ripped it apart
Ducklenice logic analyzer btw ;)
DuckleI have one like it, had some issues with crosstalk though
Ducklelike, unconnected channels would show some of the adjecent channels signals
DrakoniteI explicitly wanted a keyed connector for it so once I get it set I can't plug it in backwards. If it's backwards now, I can either tweak that in software, or easy to swap around the pins in that connector
archivistconnect unused to gnd
Ducklearchivist: ooh. That makes sense
Ducklearchivist: I don't use it anymore though, since I got my Analog Discovery 2
DrakoniteI want to review that LA. Just arrived a few days ago and haven't had time to use it yet though
DuckleDrakonite: It's nice. Especially for the price
Drakoniteseems to essentially be the same a the early saleae devices
DuckleAnd I honestly feel a bit bad for saelea logic
DuckleDrakonite: Well yeah, it's a copy
Ducklethe value of the saelea LA is in the freely provided software, so china made a copy of the hardware :S
DrakoniteI bought a saleae in their early days, ended up giving it to a friend though
Ducklewhat do you use instead?
Drakoniteso I wouldn't feel horrible about using their software, but I intend to use sigrok with this instead
Duckleoscope with LA in it?
Duckleahh, gotcha
DrakoniteI have an open source LA that I would have been using instead, but just didn't have much need for it
Drakonite(because of life issues, my electronics gear was put in boxes for several years)
Drakonitethis thinger
Drakonitewhich has been discontinued, and unfortunately there are issues getting working firmware/drivers for it now
Duckleright, I see it mentions SUMP
Ducklewhich I thought was pretty old
Ducklewait, firmware?
Duckledo you mean software?
DrakoniteI mean firmware
Drakonitebut yes, also the software
Duckleisn't that provided right there on the DP site?
password2oh , duh
Ducklethe V3 core
Drakonitethere was effort to make a new SUMP program, but it fizzled out
password2ofc i can make an LA with an fpga too
password2should be simple?
DrakoniteDuckle, a lot of the links on that site are dead
Drakonitelooks like sigrok supports it though, so need to give that a go
DuckleDrakonite: DId they ever provide the Verilog for the V3 core?
Drakonitethe source was available at one point I think
Drakonitethe last I looked in to it most links related to it were broken though
Duckleanother reason to just use github :/
DrakoniteI could be wrong, they may not have released the source, but I thought I saw it listed somewhere
Drakoniteoh, yeah, here it is
DuckleDrakonite: I don't see any VHDL in there
Drakonitethen, no
Ducklehmm, interesting
Ducklepassword2: But yeah, FPGAs are a popular choice for LA
password2Duckle: I'm the other way around
password2LA for FPGA not FPGA for LA :D
password2ie i have an FPGA and want to program it
password2or I will have one
Duckleyou want to turn a logic analyzer into an FPGA?
DuckleI said that FPGAs are a common thing to use, to make an LA
password2i mean i have an fpga and thinking of stuff to do with it
Duckleyeah LA is a good choice
password2not i want an LA and thinking about what to use to build one
Duckleaah gotcha
Ducklepassword2: You can also use an FPGA for an insane WD2812 driver ;)
DuckleI uhm
password2i could
Duckleyeah WD2812 is correct
DuckleI think they are newer or something
password2ws2812b ?
Ducklewell WD2812 is also a chip :P
password2i have about 195 on breakout boards
Duckleoh nvm, it is ws
Duckleman I'm doing weird shit
password2oh wait i think i have 395
Ducklepassword2: Make a 240Hz gaming jumbotron!
Drakonitepassword2, those little round pcb breakouts?
password2their for this
Drakoniteheh, I considered building something like that
password2i dumpster dove an diffuser the other day , want to run a few experiemnts on how it will perform
password2I've since decided to use 6 digits instead
DrakoniteI need to build a clock soon
password2standard clock?
DrakoniteMy clock fell and broke a few years ago, it was a custom thing my dad had built. I decided I wouldn't buy a new clock until I designed and built my own custom clock
DrakoniteTook me a while to come up with and pick an idea, and then keeps getting put off
Duckleflip-dot display!
DuckleIt's a shame they are so insanely expensive
Drakoniteindeed, they look fun to play with
NGC3982ACTION has spent the last 12 years trying to build the harrison h1.
Drakonitethe less ambitious clock design I am going to build (and thus, most likely to actually get done) is just a normal clock movement, but using vinyl cutter and paint to make the clock face look like a circuit board
Ducklemake a fluid clock
Duckle7segmet style of pockets for liquid, then pump colored oil / clear water into the segmments
Ducklecould be really neat
Drakoniteeh, going to make my less ambitious one first, as I don't have a clock in my living room :P
Drakonitethen a couple other ideas after that, that may or may not happen
password2oh man , an shishi odoshi powered clock could be epic
Peyamhi. Does anyone have any good toturials on how I handle or work with analogue inputs?
^7heottoturials suck
Peyamwhat should I read then?
^7heotutorials are bad already
^7heobut ttoturials suck
^7heoread a book
Peyamwhat should I read? then ^7heo
^7heoa good one
Peyamrecommand one
Drakonitehere is the other clock idea I wanted to build: a white diffused clock face that looked blank, but RGB LEDs would light through it to show the time. (middle black ring was ditched). also IoT to allow setting time, and ideally some way of showing info in the center of it (weather alerts, etc)
password2read as much as you can
DrakonitePeyam, that is a very wide question, FWIW. there is a LOT of stuff related to analogue
PeyamWell I have a PLC and I need to learn how to workd with analogue output and input. like make a diode light more
^7heo< password2> read as much as you can
Drakonitecontrolling LED brightness is a question of current control, which is a significantly different problem than, say, reading the value of a POT
^7heoif you get good litterature yes
DocScrutinizer05otr building a decent audio amp
^7heobut your round of the mill bs tutorial will do more harm than good
password2I dissagree
DocScrutinizer05read until you start noticing the diffs in quality of what you read
Peyamyou never get an answer here
PeyamI wonder why there is a channel at all
DocScrutinizer05Peyam: until you reach that level, maybe asking about details in here is a viable approach
PeyamWhy should it be a level dependend channel?
DocScrutinizer05you are mistaken on what I said
DocScrutinizer05sorry I don't know any tutorial specific about analog IO
DocScrutinizer05what you're asking for is too generic on a too specific topic
DocScrutinizer05like "is there a report about taste of green apples with a weight between 200 and 300g?"
flor1anwant one?
flor1anthey taste like apples do.
flor1an*scnr* ;)
tawrPeyam: topic.
tawrDrakonite: acrylic
tawr150 grit vertical in front, horizontal on back, 1/16". sheet of glass twice as thick between the leds and the acrylic, but an airgap would work too
tawrerr 1/16" acrylic
Drakonitetawr, ?
Drakoniteoh, you mean on building the thing I linked my mockup of
tawrws2812b + attiny85 + pot + fastled lib
tawr38 leds
DocScrutinizer05Peyam: there might be whitepapers about ADC/DAC for example
Drakoniteyeah, plan was to use a piece of milky acrylic, but couldn't find any, so had an acrylic disc that I tried diffusion spray paint on. Unfortunately it yellowed heavily
tawr150 grit
tawrsand one side vertical, and the backside horizontal
Drakonitefirst attempt was sanding t
DocScrutinizer05Peyam: and tutorials about analog circuitry in general
DrakoniteI was not happy with the result
tawr150 grit is still smooth to the touch
tawrwhat did you sand it with, ad how well did you sand it?
Drakoniteit did not come out well IMO
tawrsee mine?
Drakoniteit some where in the 120-200 range. I forget which. I spent a fair bit of elbow grease on it
DrakoniteNow I have another acrylic disc and some diffusion material to put behind it
DrakoniteI've tested in other circumstance and it looks pretty good
DrakoniteI've planned this project out, I just haven't done all the work to build it
DocScrutinizer05tawr: that photo you linked would benefit from disabling the flashlight, a lot
tawrDocScrutinizer05: it was done in that way on purpose
tawrto show the surface finish of the diffuser plate
DocScrutinizer05aah, ok
tawrdon't dare to question me, i am the great and powerful tawr
tawrDrakonite: yeah. i've actually wondered about woven batting as a diffusion material
tawrlike what's used in blankets and bedding
tawrbecause i have a roll of it, too
DrakoniteI picked up some plastic sheet intended as diffusion material. might be slightly thicker than I'd like, but the ws2812 is plenty bright enough through it
DrakoniteI didn't use the same sanding pattern as you. Not sure how much difference that would make. I just wasn't happy with the level of diffusion on it for what I was trying to do, and I had the diffusion spray stuff
Drakoniteer, frost spray, or whatever it's called
password2tawr: thats very dim
Drakonitethe spray would have worked well enough perhaps, except it yellowed for some reason
tawrpassword2: it's off..
password2still see dots :D
Drakoniteit's still dim :P
Drakoniteoff is pretty dim afterall!
tawrit was literally off, and i used the flash
tawryou ignorant slut
password2i want tetris shaped blocks
JoeLlamaI'm bored
JoeLlamamoo Sculptor tell me what you are doing? :)
Drakonitetawr, at this point the thing that is holding it back is the design of the inner physical structure, and physically building all of it
Sculptori took a day off. i'm about to go to my folks' to pick up a packet i got yday. then i'm gonna buy something to eat
password2tetris shaped lights
password2tetris shaped lights that you can rearange :D
Sculptorit's half past 10 am
Sculptorand i skipped a dinner yday
Sculptorrather hungry
tawrDrakonite: buy neopixel rings
Drakonitetawr, already have them
Drakonitealready have all the electronicals
JoeLlamahey Sculptor go eat something
tawroops, didnt mean to export video
Sculptori found a forgotten candy bar and i had it this morning
Drakonitethe outer numbers are going to be with breakouts, not the rings, because it's too big
Sculptorit's not that bad
JoeLlamanice breakfast Sculptor
tawrthat's how i built this
tawrindividual neopixel dots on 3/8" pcbs
tawrit was 240+ solder joints
Drakoniteer, to be clear, it's the design of the framing I mean; which is probably going to be mostly 3d printed parts. My 3d printer isn't big enough to do as one print though, which complicates it
tawri used 24g solid hookup wire to solder it together
Sculptorheh, neopixels
synx508all the talk of LEDs has be thinking about the ongoing project that I was too chicken to take on. 190k LEDs on a car.
yvii have a 160W 13.8V power supply and want to use it for +12V ATX pc and some other +12V things. as a know-nothing i have looked around a bit and supposedly using a rectifier diode with a voltage drop that puts within ATX spec is the way to do it?
Sculptoradaduckt it invented that term - neopixel
synx508I'm still convinced it's going to turn into a giant fireball
Sculptorthey existed long before adaduckit found about them
Drakoniteneopixel is easier to say and type than ws2812b, and I think everyone here knows they are the same
JoeLlamaif we can fry a candy bar we can fry anything!
flor1anif need be with plastic wrap, that is
flor1anit is friday, sorry.
Drakonite"I didn't say they couldn't, I said you shouldn't!"
flor1anfriday flag set.
mitmfSopaXorzTaker: hello
mitmfSopaXorzTaker: i have success
p0g0JoeLlama: Recall the "Fry Baby"? I once withnessed one that had melted it's plastic lid into the fry oil-the tempura cooked in that looked like a Denny's menu, glossy, plastic coated food.
n2Anyone good with IC manufacturer logos?
Miyugot a picture for us? :)
archivistyou will probably find a site with them collected
n2It's sort of a three-pointed star
n2in a circle
n2split by its points
Miyuwhat kind of chip is it?
n2it's an op amp
n2AH i got it
n2it's thomson.
n2i.e. STMicroelectronics
Miyunice :)
n2it's old
n2it's from week 13, 1985
n2performs better than most newer though...
n2The reason I'm asking is because I'm preparing a little opamp shootout article... :P
MiyuI see :)
n2And the TL074 (the device), well...
n2Earlier in the article, I prove that manufacturers matter
n2Identical devices aren't identical
Miyuand yeah, it being an older chip doesn't make it easier to ID the manufacturer :)
n2So I'd rather get the manufacturer right
Miyusounds like an interesting article :)
MiyuACTION eyes the likely knock-off Ti LM324s on her desk
archivistthey shrink the die over time to reduce cost I bet they get worse
n2Miyu, actually, the knockoff is better than the original
n2my tested device is the 2902, which is the quad 324...
Miyuthey are? Go China, I guess :)
n2and the non-Texas Instruments performs better
n2in this application
MiyuI just went for the cheap option in this design
Miyudidn't need speed :)
Miyujust boosting a voltage, basically
Miyuwhich changes slowly
Miyuso an LM324 is already overkill
n2The LM2902 can't sustain an oscillator over about 10KHz...
n2speed is always relative
Miyuwent for SOIC parts on the PCB
Miyuthey're yet another manufacturer...
MiyuACTION forgot, despite having soldered a dozen of those chips by hand now :D
Miyufocusing on the pins, not the printing, I guess
Miyubut yeah, for non-critical applications just about anything goes, I guess :)
Miyu <<-- the project :)
n2Interesting project
Miyuthanks :)
Miyugot one of them installed on the ceiling here at the office so far
Miyufor testing purposes
Miyuworking all right so far :)
Miyucan control the 3 AC units hooked up to it
Miyuor coil fan units, I should say :)
Miyubut the basic design could be used to control a lot of different AC-type things
Miyubroke out the remaining IO as well
Evidlo[m]do fluorescent ballasts fail in some common way
p0g0Evidlo[m]: dunno about that, but they sure do fail.
n2Evidlo[m], depends on the ballast type
n2there are several common types
Miyun2: thanks :)
n2Miyu, finished it while you were gone.
MiyuACTION just did a big Win10 update :D
n2If you read it, please tell me what you think of it!
Miyuokay :)
JFK911the best flouro failure is the one where it wont start in the dark
JFK911ever had this?
n2JFK911, yea
intranickACTION throws an egg at JFK911 
Evidlo[m]n2 (IRC): its a four pin fluorescent
n2the light photons add ionization energy
p0g0JFK911: yep, even had ones that would light up with a bit of illumination... not a big fan of the old timey 8' bulbs. And how to legally dispose of them, as they are barred, in this state anyway, from muni landfills.
JFK911p0g0: county hazmat day
JFK911mine is tomorrow
p0g0What is that?
p0g0We don't have those here.
JFK911how are you supposed to throw away paint and batteries and motor oil then
p0g0No fire dept picking up hazards, etc. We're expected to cocktail into the muni stream or just toss them whereever...
JFK911hard to believe
JFK911last person who told me there was no hazmat collection, i found the counties in his region partner with a disposal company to provide that
p0g0Oil has places, batteries no, paint only if it is entirely dry, no fluids.
Evidlo[m]so in the US, most balasts are starters AND ballasts?
p0g0You can recycle your lead acid batteries without too much trouble, but all the rest...
JFK911p0g0: if the county wont take nickel batteries, lowes etc. does
p0g0Evidlo[m]: depends on the age, the oldest ones had starters.
JFK911lowes will take cfl too im not sure about tubes.
JFK911electronic ballasts probably don't have separate starters.
newcoderSuppose battery of android-phone is 100% charged, then if it's charged for another extra 3 hours, will it create problem?
p0g0JFK911: the nearest lowes is 60 miles away.
JFK911newcoder: no
newcoderJFK911: Why not?
n2newcoder, it has a battery controller
n2it will prevent overcharging.
JFK911newcoder: the charger will stop.
n2If you charged the battery directly, then it'd maybe cause a problem
n2but you don't
n2there's controlling/charging circuitry in between
newcodern2: Charging accessories are provided by the android-phone manufactures.
n2Not accessories
n2Within the actual phone
n2Around the battery
n2Between the power supply and the battery
n2there is circuitry in the phone
n2to control the charging
newcodern2: Why would I do that?
n2You wouldn't
n2Just explaining to you how the charging works in the phone
JFK911a clip on charger should stop charging too, if its any good
Miyun2: good article, very good summary and intriguing results :)
MiyuACTION would love to read more opamp benchmark articles :D
Miyuor maybe something similar for other components :)
n2That's what I'm considering!
n2I was surprised to see the CMOS amp fail relative to the others
n2didnt see that comint
MiyuACTION nods
Miyuat least I found a new favourite opamp, I guess :)
archivistcmos low current then slow slew rate
n2For that application, anyway
n2archivist, the slew rate isn't the issue
n2the accumulated phase shift must be
royal_screwup21super noob question: In an N-MOSFET, we've got a drain, source and gate. The "source" and "drain" are made out of n-type semionductors, is that correct?
archivistslew rate limits the frequency
n2but if you look at the article
n2you'd see that it's not a slew rate problem
n2Op amp oscillator circuits aren't limited by the slew rate, anyway
archivistso you say, but why should I believe
n2Not unless you're using a 100KHz op amp
n2archivist, So I researched the problem after doing the testing
n2Don't believe me
n2Believe the experts
n2"Voltage feedback op amps are limited to a few hundred kHz because they accumulate too much phase shift."
n2What contributes to phase shift? Capacitance.
n2CMOS op amps even though they have an excellent slew rate
n2has a poorer phase margin due to the higher internal capacitance
n2(of the transistors forming the circuit)
n2Besides, archivist, op amps with identical GBW and worse slew rate perform better in that specific application
archivistremember the high output impedance and load capacitance with some
JFK911p0g0 its nuts your county operates a landfill but wont deal with household hazmats
JFK911we're not allowed to put bottles and cans in the landfill. $500 fine
JFK911(if busted)
Evidlo[m]well, I was going to have a look inside my ballast, but its sealed under folded steel AND potted
n2archivist, it's not a particularly high output impedance device
n2None of the parts are specialist parts, either
n2All of them are general purpose
p0g0JFK911: my county has no landfill- those are state level permits. There is _no_ penalty for stuff here, in practice. Heck, we had a guy dumping TENORMS in the local landfill and they never charged him with a crime until the public went ballistic, then all he got was a civil charge.
p0g0JFK911: we're still in the diaper phase of waste management here, training the public to use muni waste collection rather than throw it over the hill or burn it in the yard...
p0g0complicated things, politically complicated things, like enforcement... we're still making small steps, not big ones.
p0g0JFK911: on the other hand, we have made great progress in the last 20 years. The river I live on no longer flows with trash, it supports beavers, osprey, eagles now. That is a huge step, and it took a lot of work to get rural trash collection installed across the state, so, in the big picture, we are not far from being civilised.
JFK911what state is this
JFK911i live in nc which is kind of backwards itself
JFK911oh my neighbor
JFK911you're on the other side of the hill.
JFK911work sent me to pike county once. wow.
p0g0yep, so our trash doesn't flow your way (much)
JFK911driving around there reminded me of driving around provincial russia.
p0g0the phrase "Pikers" came from there...
p0g0Pike County is one of the most affleunt here... imagine the poor ones.
JFK911I drove to va from cinci once. it was all pretty
JFK911But pikeville was like... a rock
p0g0Pike had large met coal reserves, and thermal... made a lot of money. They managed to get a local elected governor too.
Evidlo[m]can you design a 120VAC ballast with entirely passive components?
royal_screwup21in the diagram here why is that if I connect x to Vss, the top P-MOSFET will be disconnected?
p0g0Pike county is a mess, when I was advocating for the internet in the 1990s, Pike County officials pretty much ran me out of the room, to protect coal...
p0g0JFK911: tho, the governor they sourced, Paul Patton, was decent and available- I spent a bit of time with him over internet and security things.
p0g0That worked out well, considering.
p0g0ACTION heads off to another day that is too warm for this time of year...
^7heocome on
^7heojust enjoy the warmth
^7heowhy can't you just take the good part? :)
^7heoWhatever if it makes our kids die in terrible suffering; we have a slightly warmer autumn!
paulrswhat are self healing fuses ?
royal_screwup21in the diagram here why is that if I connect x to Vss, the top P-MOSFET will be connected?
paulrswas more wondering about smd ones
n2Same same
n2Same technology
paulrsill find a datasheet
n2The packaging doesn't matter much
paulrsi see
Sculptorpaulrs, they are great when speed is of no imprtance
n2they don't fuse particularly quickly
n2Twitter: Employee briefly shut down Trump's account on last day of work
n2Holy shit.
paulrsi nearly made a bad taste juke there :)
n2Juke, joke, what does it matter?
paulrswhen trump came a long i gave him the benifit of the doubt thinking me might be a nice,inteligent guy
paulrsthink i may have been wrong
NGC3982the thing is, his personality did not really help that his control is awful
NGC3982one could hope that he was just a doofus but his politics might work
NGC3982but.. well, here we are.
jsoftHe seems to have good intentions
jsoftFrom my perspective anyway.
NGC3982of course, but who doesnt?
jsoftHitler did not :)
jsoftHillary did not
NGC3982yes, he did. we all think we do things because it feels good
NGC3982you mean: he seems to have -your- good intentions?
jsoftNo I mean he seems to want to do stuff for america, not just his donors and what not
NGC3982im not american, and i do not feel that way.
jsoftnor am I, and I do.
NGC3982but since this is #electronics, i think we shouldnt bark louder at each other than this. :)
jsoftTherefor your opinion is wrong. :P
NGC3982inb4 IRC all-caps flame war
jsoftIt is entirely related to electronics, because of electrons.
NGC3982and the plutonium in the ordered nuclear weapons have lots of 'em!
jsoftYeah they do stuff
NGC3982in my galaxy, we do not have nuclear weapons
NGC3982we have plutonium tho. mostly tangled up in gas clouds after a few old stars went bust.
NGC3982the reason we do not have nuclear weapons might be that i dont have intelligent life yet
NGC3982its a shame
NGC3982would totally be worth an ICBM or two
jsoftIs your nick name some galaxy designation or something?
JFK911its his inmate number
jsoftAnyone seen that Flea86's girlfriend is active on the facetube again?
jsoftLast one was a part 1 of making a mag loop antenna
NGC3982jsoft: New General Catalogue 3982. Ursa Major, 68Mly. yours truly!
jsoftwtf does all that mean
jsoftIs that some space jargon?
jsoftA picture of you:
jsoftLooks purrrdy
tawrBe nice jsoft it takes 68 million years for him to get your message. Fucking lag.
jsoftI thought the gubberment had made inter dimensional super luminal deep space comms ?
Ducklehe doesn't even have internet yet
Ducklehe will have by the time our messages gets to him though
password4we have a star on our hands
intranickACTION upgrades password4 
Ducklepassword4: Quite a few actually
password4intranick, maybe next time
OdinYggdGovernment has interdimensional comms. They just don't know how to listen
password4i dont feel like it now
OdinYggdBut everyone already knew that
intranickpassword4: upgrade damnit
Spirit532Hey, so bad news.
Spirit532I'm getting negative replies from some companies saying that they don't have the software
Spirit532One company - the distrubutor of the software for my camera, got in touch
Spirit532and dropped my jaw a little
Spirit532It's 3900 EUR
jsoftYay java!
Spirit532Yay java, I guess
jsoftEnterprise grade software
Spirit532I don't think that one is java
Spirit532But that one was always a paid option
jsoftAhh then it might just work
Spirit5323900 eur
Spirit532I asked for a trial and said I'll sign an NDA
Spirit532Hopefully they send me the binaries
Spirit532Because I'm great at cracking software :^)
jsoftAs soon as you get it, go 'jokes roflcopter hax0r'
Spirit532basically yes
Spirit532well, after I check if it works with my camera
Spirit532because if it doesn't, I'm even more screwed
password4sorry , i run out of fucks to give
password4might obtain some at the store
jsoftCrack their software, and then have the cheek to go 'hey your cracked software does not support X, and has a bug at Y'
jsoftpassword4, I hear the bar is giving out fucks
Spirit532if I sign an agreement and tell them I cracked it
Spirit532I will likely get shafted by law
jsoftSpirit532, Then just say 'Yeah I had a muscle spasm and accidentally cracked it'.
Spirit532That only works if they send me a free USB auth stick
Spirit532grrr, hate those things
jsoftYay dongle 2.0
tawrSpirit532: what software is this
Spirit532Visart 2.1
Spirit532the Artho Visart
archivistjust crack the "passed the dongle test" flag
OdinYggdOh yeah, friggen hardware dongles
Spirit532this retarded thing
OdinYggdI have one that requires a parallel port
OdinYggdAncient thing really
Spirit532are you serious
Spirit532google why
OdinYggdBut I end up building workstations with a physical parallel port on them to make the dongle work
jsoftLol remember floppy disks?
jsoftThose quietly stopped appearing on computers a while ago aye
jsoftDamn it! My computer has one
intranickwhat is a floppy disk
jsoftOh no, no, thats actually sd cards in a floppy disk sized thingy
jsoftintranick, I dunno, some ancient artifact
intranickjsoft: could you play frisbee with them?
jsoftintranick, Only the ancients would know. Perahps consult the scrolls for clues
tawrjsoft: i have a 10+ year old usb floppy drive
tawrwhich is much better than the alternative, intranick's floppy 3.5"
intranickhey its a groweer not a shower
tomeaton17Anyone who has studied ee or comp sci at uni which one do you think is a more useful course
jsoftof course I have not studied either :)
archivistthe one to suit your interest
OdinYggdjsoft, what size of floppy disc
OdinYggdtomeaton17, electrical engineering by far
jsoftOdinYggd, 5 inch
OdinYggdcomputer science is proving to be a useless degree, you end up with a job as a programmer and everyone complains at how useless oyu are until you have 5 years experience
jsoftAll the comp sci stuff seems all wanky and too theoretical based off a passing glance.
tomeaton17So is experience not a problem with ee jobs?
OdinYggdjsoft isn't it properly 5 1/4"? Also have you ever played wtih 8" floppy discs
jsoftOdinYggd, Yeah 5.25
jsoftnever touched 8"
OdinYggdShe likes the 8" better.
jsoftNo doubt
tomeaton17I am doing a year intership before uni at an aerospace company so I have some experience
OdinYggdtomeaton17, EE is a smaller field, but there is a stable demand for people to design and build all the automated equipment in modern usage.
OdinYggdThey work with computerized systems, but deal more in the physical hardware actually wiring up all the modules and making them behave as a team
jsoftee uses programming and all that crap anyway
OdinYggdalso EE has the option to divert to power electrics if electronics engineering becomes too brain-intensive
OdinYggdThey share fundamentals and underlying theory. What changes is the size of the equipment, and the safety precautions required
tomeaton17So you would be able to get a programming job with an ee degree? Im ok with programming because I am doing stm32 dev this year
jsofttomeaton17, *shrug*
jsofttomeaton17, Im doing stm32 dev stuff now, with no degree :)
archivistif your interest are mainly programming then go that way
jsoftI wonder if/when employers/hr are going to realize degrees are not everything ( especially for just programming jobs )
archivistbad being in a job without interest and aptitude in the subject
tomeaton17I did loads of programming when I was younger but it got a bit boring just doing stuff on a screen. I find manipulating tangible objects with programming more exciting
jsofttomeaton17, yeah man.
jsofttomeaton17, I was in IT and switched over to electromagics
archivistit is HR that is clueless, workers will check for aptitude and interest
jsoftarchivist, assuming they can get the candidates past HR
jsoftThey are the gateway
archivista bad one
jsoftOh looky what I found, a bourbon!
archivistthis is why I say match your interests with the course
archivistI got a funny look from a student when I asked for his hobbies
archivistthen he got it
jsoftHe got what
tomeaton17I think ee is for me then. I am really enjoying what i am doing this year
OdinYggd<jsoft> I wonder if/when employers/hr are going to realize degrees are not everything ( especially for just programming jobs )
OdinYggdNot going to happen
OdinYggdThe entire point of the degree is to fool the HR Department into thinking you know what you are talking about.
jsofttomeaton17, yeah its awesome.
archivistjsoft the link between job and interests
OdinYggdThe people you actually work with don't even get to talk to you till you are already on the job
OdinYggdand discover very quickly that you have a degree but don't know shit.
OdinYggdI'm in this boat too, I want to get out of this maintenance office and go more towards engineering, but most advertised positions want a BS degree.
jsoftOdinYggd, I dunno, I dont see how a degree magically makes you any better off generally than a joe bloggs non degree guy when it comes to a new problem
OdinYggdEven though I have 8 years experience in the field with automated equipment handling all aspects of its use, maintenance, and design
OdinYggdExactly jsoft
OdinYggdThe degree does not reflect your talents.
jsoftI dont have a degree, Im just guessing here
OdinYggdIt only shows that you paid a lot of money for a scrap of fancy paper
archivistdegree only shows you stuck at a course
jsoftAll the people whom I have dealt with whom have degrees, are not really that flash
jsoftnot not all, but most
archivisteffin arts degree being the lowest :)
jsoftarts degree
jsoftI got annoyed at work, being told that you need years at uni to impliment a digital filter. So I got drunk and made one that evening
jsoftThen got slightly distracted and am still working on it :D
Hellejsoft: and can you now prove that it works ?
Hellejsoft: note, I did actually take a course on it
Helleactual filter design, not the big deal
Helleshowing the properties and why it works, and being able to figure out new stuff from that, the big deal
jsoftHelle, yeah I brought it in to work the next day ( when I new they would be showing their demo board ). We had to plot the responses, and mine was more betterer, theirs was absolute tits
Hellejsoft: oh, I am not saying you can't do it based on a night of googling
HelleI've done that before the course
DrakoniteI could search the net and learn everything I needed to know about it faster than you could realize you forgot too much and needed to look it up again ;)
Helleit's more, if you have very specific requirements, you may run into issues
jsoftHelle, I am not saying I understand the maths.
HelleI've designed regular filters layered on kallmann filters for various tasks, on fixed point math platforms
Hellethat one broke my brain
tomeaton17jsoft: Did you mean the one they made was good
Hellehad to get someone else in to just help me order the whole problem set we where running into
jsofttomeaton17, no it was shit
jsoftAbsolute shit
Drakonitejsoft, "the tits" generally means "very nice"
jsoftBarely resembled a sine wave @ 1000 khz
jsoftDrakonite, we use 'it was the tits' to say its good.
jsoftDrakonite, but 'that thing is tits' means bad
jsoftKinda weird I guess, but yeah
tomeaton17english for you
jsofttomeaton17, so whatchya working on, anyways?
tomeaton17jsoft: I have an internship at an aerospace company, and I am designing a battery management system for LiPos on drones
jsoftOh ok, cool
DocScrutinizer05damnding job
DocScrutinizer05demanding even
jsoftIts fucking cool though eh, all this tech shit
jsoftI love 'here goes a problem, make some shit which fixes it'
DocScrutinizer05wel, for drones the security level is somewhat relaxed, compared to e.g. a 747
tomeaton17Well we are working for some quite high security people..
DocScrutinizer05btu avionics and LiPo is a receipe for headache
DocScrutinizer05LiIon that is
jsoftDue to pressures and temperatures and what not?
tomeaton17LiPos are great but dangerous
DocScrutinizer05due to some nasty habits of LiIon
jsoftOh ok
jsoftYeah batteries are something I am not up with the play on. I have not dicked with anything beyond lead acid because I don't want to catch fire if I cock it up
magic_ninja_workhey, so when evaluating series-parallel circuits with inductors and capacitors how do I treat their impedance.
jsoftGoing to have to have a good ol read at some stage
DocScrutinizer05jsoft: good decision ;-)
jsoftmagic_ninja_work, that sounds like a homework question
tpw_rulesmagic_ninja_work: are you familiar with the frequency domain?
magic_ninja_workyea, omega?
tpw_rulesbut yeah, it sounds like you need to read your book more
magic_ninja_workjsoft, yea it is a homework question
tawrwe dont do homework.
tomeaton17this is the pcb I made for it
tpw_rulesit's quite simple
tpw_ruleshave you tried asking your teacher or friends?
tawrneeds more scribbles tomeaton17
DocScrutinizer05magic_ninja_work: capacitors resp inductors mutually, or mixed?
jsoftmagic_ninja_work, in summary, its a magically changing frequency dependant 'resistance'
tomeaton17Lol I dont want to show you the company
tawrtomeaton17: smart move, i was just messing around
jsofttomeaton17, You should hook me up with a job. I made a led blink and installed java once
magic_ninja_workDocScrutinizer05, basically, it is an inductor with a cap and resistor in series. I know the cap and inductor have an imaginary component and have calculated that component, I'm just not sure how to use them in the equation for the circuit.
tpw_rulesmagic_ninja_work: that's the neat thing about the imaginary components. they're just resistors, but imaginary
magic_ninja_workI've done all the leg work, just not sure how to bring it home hehe.
tomeaton17:p I am regretting choosing 0603 resistors
DocScrutinizer05capacitor and inductor form a resonator, which changes about everything
tpw_rulesso you can use all your stuff like putting resistors in parallel, just in complex numbers
tomeaton17jsoft: haha well they are hiring for fpga devs
magic_ninja_workso my final answer will be in the form of a complex number
tpw_rulesbut like how do you put two resistors in series? R1 + R2
jsoftComplex numbers in the impedance world really is just the phasor rectangular representation right?
magic_ninja_workThat makes sense. Thanks guys.
tpw_rulesjsoft: yeah
tpw_rulesso just add your R and the complex number you got for the C and you've got their combination in series
magic_ninja_workjsoft, yes.
jsoftYeah I was trying to wrap my brain around complex numbers for ages, going 'wtf are they on about and why wont they tell me what this complex number shit is'
DocScrutinizer05tpw_rules: that only applies when there's no L near the C
jsoftand its really nothing much
tpw_rulesDocScrutinizer05: what do you mean
tpw_rulesjsoft: complicated numbers
jsoftFrom my understanding anyway
tpw_rulesDocScrutinizer05: it still works. unless you mean physically proiximate?
jsoftI was happy though, because I discovered my HP-15C can do complex numbers :)
tpw_rulesi've taught my n-spire cas so much stuff
tpw_rulesi love it
magic_ninja_workhehe, the complex number thing isn't all the confusing, what is confusing me is that I have this resistor and capacitor in parallel and I can't really evaluate
tpw_ruleshow do you evaluate two resistors in parallel?
DocScrutinizer05for a resonator you won't get reasonable results from impedance alone, near resonat frequency
tomeaton17I want to get a cas calculator but I wont be allowed it for exams
tpw_rulesyup. so just put in the impedance for the cap in for Xc and compute
tawrmagic_ninja_work: so open up falstad
Drakonitejsoft, after I watched the videos from the guy that made the hackrf, I came to the conclusion that complex numbers (which are just 2 dimensional numbers) are the real numbers, and 'real' numbers (which are 1 dimensional) are just simple/partial numbers :P
tawrand play around.
tawrand bring it home, so to speak
jsofttomeaton17, I had a 50G which I was not allowed to use in exams. I brought my 15C in and they thought 'that thing cannot possibly be programmable'
tawrinstall LTSPICE
tpw_rules*pulls out magnetic tape*
tomeaton17:) They didnt check my calculator for my uni entrance exams so I could have had anything I wanted on it
jsoftDrakonite, I watched videos from the same guy about his approach to RF pcb design, and I liked his 'yeah fuck it' approach
Drakonitejsoft, I was constantly told I couldn't use a calculator on tests because "You're not going to be carrying a calculator around with you everywhere"..
tomeaton17I have always wanted to put a custom mcu inside a ti case
Helletomeaton17: because you will hit your head on the wall quickly enough if you did
jsoftDrakonite, hah! :D
PeyamWhat can I use analogue signals for in a plc
Helleat uni we where allowed at least a dumb calculator for all tests, I used one to avoid some silly errors, but I had to do so much actual algebra that I'd need a CAS to help even a little
magic_ninja_workhmm. I don't remember the rules, but I bet this calc can do imaginary numbers hehe
Peyamwhy would I use a analogue variable?
jsoftI assume you guys are aware that RPN > * ?
Drakonitejsoft, he has a series on SDR, which covers complex numbers, and it's the best explanation of the topics I've seen
Hellejsoft: yes
password4tomeaton17, are your moral limits limit by how easy you can get caught?
Peyamjsoft, what is RPN?
jsoftHelle, ;)
Drakonitejsoft, don't you mean: RPN * >
HelleDrakonite: hehe
jsoftDrakonite, haha :D
Hellealthough I'd love a Lispy calculator
Helle(> RPN *)
tomeaton17password4: I guess its basic risk analysis
Hellebut RPN is very nice
jsoftDrakonite, I don't think I have seen that one. I shall have to have a geeze
Helledon't own one
password4tomeaton17, not for me
Hellebecause them prices
jsoftI bought two 15 C's
jsoftFucking love them.
jsoftSo usefull.
password4why not 200 K's?
tomeaton17For my exams anyway I didnt need a cas calculator numeric calculus was enough to check my answers
Drakonitejsoft, (though I recommend starting from the first video)
Helleiirc the HP smartcalc is the cheapest but hard to get here
tomeaton17password4: I didnt cheat btw
jsoftAint the interwebs great.
Helletomeaton17: the thing with exams is you typically need to so much show your work (and also in stuff related to it, like assignments, etc), you don't really gain anything
Helletomeaton17: having also graded the damned things
Helleit was easy to spot who just used calculators to verify (just fine)
Helleand those who tried to cheat using them
password4tomeaton17, cool
Hellenote, typically, tried, because the steps they wrote down for "show your work" didn't /quite/ make sense
tomeaton17Yeah, the classic "show that question" fudge!
DrakoniteIn algebra2 I borrowed a calc book from the teacher, taught myself some calculus, and then used that to write a program on my calculator that could solve systems of equations. She decided if I could do that it was okay for me to use it on the tests.
jsoftWhat's calculus again?
HelleDrakonite: I would argue the same if I where assisting the course
jsoftArea under the graph shit right?
tomeaton17rates of change
DrakoniteI always got in trouble over "showing my work" because I'd naturally take multiple steps in my head
Drakonitejsoft, I always just think of it as "the shit after trig"
HelleDrakonite: yeah, but that is why we also allowed students who seemed to have done that to discuss the grading
tawrlol i've literally passed an electronics class final by doing every single inductive reactance and capacitive reactance and transconductance / admittance calculation wrong. but i did them wrong in such a way i got th right answer.
jsoftDrakonite, hah :D
HelleDrakonite: most of them came out fine with that, I myself do it, so I knew what to ask for
jsofttawr, high five :D
tawrevery. single. one. of them. the teacher called me up the next day to talk to me while laughing to himself
jsofttawr, how is it wrong though if it was the right answer?
DrakoniteHelle, I think by writing a program to do the work, and explaining to the teacher how it worked, I demonstrated I understood it
HelleDrakonite: yep
tawrand he was like 'what the hell were you doing. you literally got every single one of them right, but you did it entirely wrong. i'm not even sure what you did.'
jsofttawr, hah :D
tpw_rulesDrakonite: i did that with partial fraction decomposition
tawrand i wasn't prepared, i didn't even have my calculator so i gave all 3 of my sheets i used to show work with it. it was great
HelleDrakonite: I have genuinely recommended lecturers allowing people to pass based on such demonstration of knowledge
tpw_rulesfortunately my teachers don't care much. they just want work to give partial credit
HelleDrakonite: like, at a top 50 world university
tawrjsoft: i should find it, i kept most of my assignments and tests
DrakoniteHelle, sadly, most math classes I've had were of the "if you don't do it 100% exactly as I said, it is wrong" variety
Hellebecause it's way more in line with what a university should be testing for
tpw_rulesalthough then you transfer all your knowledge into interpreting the quirks of the cas engine
HelleDrakonite: ugh
Drakonite(which is still not as bad as many of the classes my friends had)
tomeaton17Thanks for the info everyone
HelleI still hope to make lecturer at some point
Hellebecause I damn well would want to try my hand at a old fashioned university style, where you solve a problem with the students to give them the skills and check that they know how to apply it to further knowledge
tpw_rulesmy classes kind of work like that
Helletpw_rules: I've done a few like that
DrakoniteI've talked to a few CS teachers about helping them improve their programs. I'm hoping to have that come up again and have it work out
Hellebut they had to "sneak" that in
tpw_rulesi think the labs are taught terribly though here
Hellewhile I just want to tell the uni, this is what I want to test out
DrakoniteI worked with a few people that had taught at a uni that was in the progress of getting accredited, and learned that the whole accreditation thing pretty much kills off the ability to try new things and teach in any way other than the current broken system
HelleDrakonite: yeah, that is why the lecturers here who do this, sneak it in
tpw_ruleswhat describes the "current broken system"? Cause i've seen a large variety of teaching styles
tpw_ruleseven from entrenched profs
Helletpw_rules: the problem is how accreditation works
Helleboth national accreditation and by the bodies of the field the study falls under, the intersection of those two typically restricts a lot
Spirit532I progressed a little more
Spirit532This is where it dies
Drakonitetpw_rules, I guess I mean the curriculum as much as anything? I dunno. I'm too tired to know what I mean
Spirit532I have no idea what it can mean though
tpw_rulesi mean i can definitely believe the curriculum
HelleDrakonite: no, it's accreditation that kills it, that limits the curriculum and how it can be tested for
tpw_rulesbut i'm not sure it's right that it limits the teacher. in my experience
Hellebut it also breeds creative work arounds
ztychrIs this the right place to ask about sdr-rtl?
tpw_rulesmaybe my dudes have just been doing it that way for 40 years and no accreditation board will tell them shit :P
Drakoniteyeah, that is what I mean. accreditation fucks things up, and a big part of that is it's requirements on curriculum
Hellelike a exam that is "Yes, I know my stuff"
Hellelike, literally one check box
Hellebecause the rest had been tested in project forms, discussions, etc
Drakoniteztychr, you can certainly try
Hellebut they had to have an exam, but it didn't specify what kind
tpw_rulesoh, i see what you're saying
tpw_rulesyeah hm
tpw_rulesi can't disagree
Drakonitethe people I worked with were fired from the school because their classes didn't follow under the curriculum
tawrztychr: you could
tawrtons of people play with them
tawrif it's a simple question i'm sure you'll get an answer
tpw_rulesi dunno. i might be biased. i seem to do well with a traditional teaching style
electrobotztychr just linked to (SODIAL USB2.0 Digital DVB-T TV-Tuner-Recorder-Empfaenger-Stick: Computer & Zubehör)
tawrhats a super old version ztychr
tawrand expensive.
ztychrbought this item. Can't figure out anywhere, what frequencies it can receive. Says DVB-T 6, 7, 8 mhz
tawrztychr: oh you're actually trying to use it for TV?? LOL
tawrno one uses those for tv bud :)
ztychrtawr: No. To receive frequencies. not for tv
tawrit receives around 80mhz to 1ghz ztychr
tawrit's an older version (v1 of chips/board), it's not as good as newer models with newer chips
ztychrtawr: Thanks. That'll be fine.
tawrif you plugged it in and opened a program you could have just found out what it receives
tawrsdr#, gqrx, rtl_sdr in linux, etc
ztychrtawr: Takes a while to ship it thoughj
tawri wouldn't buy it
tawrif you haven't bought it yet
Drakonitetawr, at least with mine, it doesn't actually tell me what range it supports
ztychrtawr: I have lol. Mind linking some youd recommend?
tawrztychr: okay look at the name of the chips it uses (it's right there)
tawrthere is v2. why don't you type "rtl sdr" and look at what's available. aluminum enclosures, t2 chips, VXCO, VNA dc power, direct sampling, SMA ports instead of crappy mcx ports, better antennas, etc
tawrand v3
tawrcheck ebay and aliexpress instead of amazon :)
python476received my ebay gifts earlier
python476a bunch of sad sad crocodiles and probes
python476annnd ultrasonic sensors !
python476time to wake up the esp
phinxyHow many ohms should be between a car antenna and center pin on coax?
phinxyThe cable length is < 1 meter
phinxyMy multimeter says 18 ohms.
magic_ninja_workShould be zero if there is nothing there
jsoftShould be zero I think
phinxy75 / 100 ohm antenna is something else? AC impedance or something??
magic_ninja_workThat is the input and output resistance
magic_ninja_workAnd yes, it is used to filter out unwanted signals.
password4tawr, 1 got genius idea :D
jsoftDeploy the idea!
ztychrtawr: R820T2 would be preferable yeah?
magic_ninja_workphinxy, really, what we would need is a diagram of the antenna to know for sure. There could be something in the assembly that we aren't aware of. I ran into this the other day doing an automatic chicken coup door opener
password4you know those base plates on trucks to lower the towing hook?
kcrowshould be close to zero ohms
password4i think I'll use them to make a press instead
tawrztychr: there are different chips. they do different things
password4these types
tawrt2 is better than just 820 etc. this would be a "good" one with upgraded crystal aluminum enclosure SMA connectors, etc
kcrowit is a good choice
password4but my budget is blown upto feb :(
tawrpintle plates? they're usually 3/8 or 1/2" password4
tawrdude go to a welding shop / steel supplier, you'll find random plates with holes in them there.
password4well its 1/2" more than have now
tawrlike footing plates
tawrfor dirt cheap
password4i cant fucking get it
tawrwith 4 holes or more already drilled
tawrin various sizes etc
password4i dont know why i mention my ideas to you
DocScrutinizer05phinxy: should be close to zero, 19 Ohm sounds a tad on the high end
DocScrutinizer05phinxy: which type of car antenna? telescope?
jsoftI wonder if you can tx rf into a dummy load, and demodulate it
user3209Do NiCd batteries have to be charged slowly?
jsoftBased off of heat sensing the load
DocScrutinizer05jsoft: huh?
jsoftLike say am into a load, and temperature sense the load
DocScrutinizer05jsoft: ooh, yes, depends on the heat capacitance of the load
DocScrutinizer05which forms a low pass filter
SpeedEviluser3209: most are best charged slowly - at the 14 hour rate - 1/10th capacity for 14 hours.
user3209I thought they could be quick charged since they can be discharged very quickly, but the charger is only using 5W so it takes forever
SpeedEviluser3209: their life may be reduced if charged faster, especially if charged continually at a rate over that
jsoftDocScrutinizer05, hmm
password4tawr, i dont know why , but finding baseplates here are extremely diffucult
password4especially anything above like 5mm
DocScrutinizer05user3209: generaly only heavy duty cells can get fast charged
password4you basically have to order a 2x3m plate unless you know someone
DocScrutinizer05user3209: and only by using special fast charger
user3209they discharge at 8A since they're powering a vacuum cleaner, so they drain in about twenty minutes, but it takes about 12 hours to charge
DocScrutinizer05user3209: this is more gentle to the cells and also due to cheap charger circuitry
user3209special how? I have a bench power supply, but obviously it doesn't sense temperature or anyhting
DocScrutinizer05yes, exactly that sort of stuff
DocScrutinizer05temperature, delat-V, delta-t etc pp
user3209also, I don't care about destroying the cells, they've already lost more than half their capacity after three years
user3209probably time I replaced them anyway
DocScrutinizer05then they are not fit for fastcharge anymore
SpeedEviluser3209: You may also be able to replace the pack with a DIY lithium pack.
DocScrutinizer05no, don't!
SpeedEvilBut probably best to shy away from that if you're not up to speed on batteries
ztychrtawr: would this be a "good one?"
user3209I was thinking of it, but all I've got is NCR18650B cells and they're rated for 2A discharge so I'd need like 40 of them
SpeedEvilyou can get NiMH cells in the same form factor likely, which will be a notable improvement in capacity.
DocScrutinizer05cheap shitty vacuum has a diode and a series R for "charger"
SpeedEvilBut, NiCd replacement cells would need no changes.
user3209how many NiMh cells do I need to discharge 8A
DocScrutinizer05err, that's a nonsense question
archivistone the right size
SpeedEvilWaht is the vacuum cleaner.
user3209I'm assuming I would be using standard size batteries, like AA, or C size NiMh
DocScrutinizer05you need as many cells as the voltage you need, and they need to provide 8A continuous in the config you connect them
user3209right but batteries have a max discharge for safety/internal resistance right?
user3209and NiCd has better discharge characteristics than NiMh
archivistyou can put some in parallel
user3209of course, but how many?
DocScrutinizer05watch out! replacing NiCd with NiMH is dangerous when you have that crappy cheap "constant current" charger in your vacuum. I bought a vacuum that had that Cd -> MH change by manuf and it burned my flat
archivist2 into 8
user3209currently it uses two packs of five C size NiCd batteries
DocScrutinizer05NiMH have a termal runaway property
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer05: Interesting.
user3209well I wasn't planning on using the NiCd charger to charge the NiMh batteries
archivistget some similar then
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer05: with a slow charger?
DocScrutinizer05series R from AX 12V
SpeedEvilWith fast charge, it's bad.
ShadowJKuser3209, some people are of the opinion that fast charging nicd inflicts less damage on them than slow charging, but only if the fast charge is done properly. This involves sensitive deltaV evaluation and deltaT cutoffs. With a bench supply, you're likely to violently overcharge the pack, which will result in the batteries' safety valves opening. This will result in loss of water, which results in loss of capacity, quickly.
user3209Ideally I want to get some second hand tool batteries and pull the 18650s out of them to make a lithium solution for ~10.8V nominal 8A
tawrpassword4: go to a welding shop. or steel supplier. they are there
user3209ShadowJK did you mean NiCd?
DocScrutinizer05what ShadowJK said ^^^
ShadowJKuser3209, both
ShadowJKuser3209, nimh is more sensitive and require more precision than nicd, but they're otherwise somewhat similar
user3209I had heard that - the NiCd are more resistant to abuse with how you charge/store them
user3209the main trouble is the significantly reduced capacity over NiMh
DocScrutinizer05NiMH (old) also have much higher self discharge
SpeedEviluser3209: 10*1.2=12V, not 10.2
user3209they have 10.8V written on the device for some reason
ShadowJKI have a Li-Ion drill with 10.8V written on tehe battery pack
SpeedEviluser3209: are you sure they're nicd?
DocScrutinizer053 * 3V6
kludgePut them on a nicad charger. If they explode into bright flame, they were lithium.
user3209well, it's printed on the shrink wrap "NiCd" but I suppose it could be lying
DocScrutinizer05ShadowJK: LiFePO?
DocScrutinizer05hmm no
filadomei was looking at an Israel coin
filadomethey don't use arabic numbers
SpeedEviluser3209: or have you perhaps miscounted, and there are 9, not 10 cells
ShadowJKDocScrutinizer05, nah 3.6V nominal per cell
user3209I know my CREE LED torch isn't a 10,000Lumen krypton bulb
DocScrutinizer05LiIon underrated 3V7->3V6
user3209ahhh, that actually makes so much sense
ShadowJKDocScrutinizer05, some LG chemistries have things that stabilizes the lower voltage range, allowing for deeper discharge, sometimes those are marked as 3.6V nominal
DocScrutinizer05KiFePO is what?3.0?
user3209I did a thermal analysis on the battery packs and one of them stays cold when I charge them - that one must be a dummy cell for weight balance
DocScrutinizer05ShadowJK: :nod:
kludgeuser3209: or a failed one.
user3209so yeah, nine cells
ShadowJKAnd then, iirc, Panasonic and Samsung have modified chemistries that stabilize the upper voltage range allowing for up to 4.35V, ad those are sometimes marked as 3.8V nominal
DocScrutinizer05user3209: no
user3209I thought it was a failed one, but if it's supposed to be 10.8V then
SpeedEvilkludge: well, if it's 10.8v, it makes sense one is dummy
kludgeSpeedEvil: easy enough to cut it open if it's a dead pack anyway.
SpeedEvilkludge: otherwise it'd be 12v
SpeedEviluser3209: what mAh cells
kludgeSpeedEvil: yes.
DocScrutinizer05dummy cell, what a weird concept
user3209as a counterweight to keep it balanced - since the batteries are a significant portion of the weight of the handheld device
kludgeDocScrutinizer05: Used to see them for combination alkaline/NiCD packs. You could put in N NiCds or N-1 alkalines.
DocScrutinizer05weight dummy cell even more weird
kludgeIf you put in the alkalines you had to put in the plastic dummy.
jsoftWhy not another cell
kcrowI am a dummy load antenna !
SpeedEviljsoft: cost! Or exceeding max motor volts
DocScrutinizer05kludge: we're talking about a dummy in a NiXX pack though, right?
kludgeACTION fills kcrow with hazardous oil.
kcrowACTION heats up
kludgeDocScrutinizer05: yes, presumably to make it fit in a place designed for something else originally.
user3209no mAh marking on the pack - and they're paper wrapped cells inside the shrinkwrap for some reason
DocScrutinizer05what is that "something else"?
SpeedEviluser3209: what size are the cells
kludgeDocScrutinizer05: THAT is the PUZZLE!
user3209roughly C size, but I think slightly smaller maybe
user3209just a sec I'll put the calipers on them
tomeaton17Whats the highest power psu people have worked with?
DocScrutinizer05which peaople? ;-D
kludgeACTION worked with 180 amps at 3kv once, it was scary.
jsoftkludge, crikey
tomeaton17what provides that much power
kludgeOnce I dropped my pocketknife into a 15A 3KV transmitter supply, and it pretty much disappeared.
kludgetomeaton17: radio.
DocScrutinizer05oooh, e.g. a gas turbine
DocScrutinizer05fits on a pickup
kcrowPG&E, 9megawatts available, 50 kilowatts used
user320940mm length 22mm diameter
user3209but I think they're wrapped
jsoftHigh voltage can fuck off in my books.
kludgekcrow: And 70 kw billed for?
jsoftI like my innocent 5v bread boards
tomeaton173.3 is more my style
kcrowthe billing wasn't my department ;)
jsoft3.3v? Pussy
ehigh voltage is fine, high current is scary
jsoftyeah but even high voltage low current gives me frights when it gets me
tomeaton17its the perfect mcu voltage
jsoftWhy is 3.3v perfect?
synx508it isn't.
elots of them run their cores much lower
DocScrutinizer05kludge: I hope you had proper protective waer
kludgeThings change around 100V or so and then they change again around 500V or so and then they change totally around 5000V or so. Transmitter supplies are in-between 500 and 5000 for the most part... there is corona and the like but not much of it.
user3209I'm thinking that the 10.8V is because they designed the thing, then realised it overheated and instead of redesigning anything major they just swaped out one of the cells for a dummy
jsoftin other news, I love my van :D
DocScrutinizer05user3209: chinese smart design?
kludgeDocScrutinizer05: It was long enough ago I just had a leather apron, gloves, and a facemask. We get the blue arc jackets now.
user3209chinese smart design.
ekludge: it depends on frequency too
kludgee: Oh, yeah. I guess I think of RF as being a different thing than current electricity too.
kludgeRF follows different rules but they are predictable and fascinating ones.
epredictable but weird
tomeaton17because most hobby modules use 3.3v
magic_ninja_workkludge, wearing those suits in MCC's is terribly hot, even if they are well-cooled
ei like my electricity to stay in the wires
kcrowI like arcs
DocScrutinizer05which it doesn't >1MHz | >1kV
kludgee: Sure, but the whole idea that I put current in this wire and it generates an E field that generates a B field and so on and induces current in a wire in Chicago is just so incredibly cool.
kcrowneon sign trasnformers help me with that
n2When you have to have a photo in your corporate magazine
n2because you're featured in an article
magic_ninja_workAround here it is 0-50, 50-240, 240-600 and 600-1kV. Then after 1kV it starts over at medium voltage
kludgekcrow: So YOU have been screwing up my radio reception.
n2and you don't know what to do?
n2Go cat:
ekludge: it is cool!
kcrowthree spark gap trasnmitters !
kcrowI mean Jacob's Ladders
kludgen2: that is an excellent picture.
n2kludge, the cat is in a perfect pose
n2it was a lucky shot!
kludgeIt always is with cats.
n2He's photogenic.
n2ACTION loves his cat
Sculptorwhere's the cat pic
synx508I'd like to know how cats do the teleporting thing
synx508it happens so often
synx508like, moments ago I let one of our cats out from the front door. The only way she could've got back in is via the cat flap at the back of the house but I live in the middle of a terrace
DocScrutinizer05user3209: you may consider getting a new vacuum instead of messing with repair of the battery pack. Might be cheaper too
synx508and I've made myself a cup of tea, returned to my desk and she's asleep on our bed
user3209you guys seen the compressed CO2 based cooling suites they use for explosive environments?
synx508and more than that, she looks as though she's been there for ages
DuckleHey peeps, would ethanol clean flux off of a PCB with no rubbing_
synx508which is impossible
DuckleI just want to submerge the PCBs for ~10mins and then take them out and have them nice and clean
Duckleand denatured ethanol is super cheap here
n2Duckle, IPA
n2from Matas
SculptorDuckle, get a chinese ultrasonic bath
DuckleIPA is expensive :S
tomeaton17indian pale ale
DocScrutinizer05synx508: there are twins ;-)
Sculptorbut do it before you solder all the parts
kludgeDuckle: If it's normal rosin flux, no. BUT, a scrub brush and IPA will do it.
user3209probably Doc, but I'm just messing around with this vacuum cleaner and parts I have in my workbench
Duckledammit, okay IPA it is then
user3209I'm running it as a corded vacuum cleaner from by bench supply
kludgeDuckle: ethanol is probably only slightly worse than IPA but it depends how it was denatured. Some denaturants will leave nasty residue. Put some on glass and see.
kludgeDuckle: But the scrub brush is still important.
synx508DocScrutinizer05, my theory is like that, but involving quantum entanglement
user3209denatured alchohol you never really know what's in it
Ducklen2: I need 2L to fill the container I have
DocScrutinizer05synx508: krhrhrhr
user3209laboratory ethanol would probably be similar to IPA, but denatured spirits or methelated spirits is a crapshoot
Ducklen2: Not bad
Duckleville bare tøffe ned efter det nu :P
n2user3209, ethanol is hygroscoping
n2it sucks water from the atmosphere
user3209yes, if you leave it open
e36freakyou're hydroscopic
user3209on a surface it's going to evaporate before it gathers much water
Ducklefound the denature formula requred here
DocScrutinizer05n2: which is a welcome property sometimes
Duckle2 sec, converting it to percent :)
n2user3209, more that the ethanol itself will contain water
n2in any reasonable container
n2bloody azeotropics
user3209IPA is only 99%, the rest is water
kludgen2: Scotsmen are always going on about that.
user3209I mean, you can do better than that, but it's expensive
n2user3209, that's still about an order of magnitude difference
kludgeAnd it doesn't stay that way once you open it anyway.
n2And, because of the increased polarity of IPA
n2if you dissolve any (potentially problematic) electrolytes into a water/IPA solution
n2the water/electrolyte will precipitate out
n2leaving you with a purer IPA
n2IPA abhors ions
DuckleOkay, so in Denmark, by law, it's 2.8% IPA, it's 2.8% MEK, and 1g/100L denatoniumbenzorat
n2much more than ethanol does
DocScrutinizer05I'd go for denaturated spirit (after test on glas) every day
kludgewhich is bad if it precipitates out on your board.
user3209huh, well I learned something today, thanks
n2kludge, which it won't
n2because it will precipitate in the container
n2My point is, with ethanol
kludgeSOME people will advocate organic acid flux instead because it's much easier to deflux. But it smells nasty.
DocScrutinizer05after all one of its most common usages is to clean glas
n2you can easily ADD impurities
OdinYggd>acid flux
kludgeAnd it's probably bad for you.
n2Also, Duckle
n2It's much EASIER to remove the flux with IPA
OdinYggdThe WONDERFUL world of corrosion!
n2than denatured ethanol
kludgeDocScrutinizer05: that's what people want you to think but they are really cleaning their insides.
n2That's just a fact :P
OdinYggdI would expect IPA to be a higher purity alcohol than denatured
Ducklewell I guess I'll go buy 500mL then, and clean by hand
DocScrutinizer05kludge: with denaturated spirit? BLARGH!
OdinYggdsince denatured is what 70% ethanol with benzene and MEK?
n2Duckle, if you want more power
kludgeI would not say MUCH easier, but it's a good bit easier with IPA. And it's really a major pain to do it with IPA.
n250% IPA + 50% acetone
n2that way it WILL be much easier
DuckleOdinYggd: I posted the formula above :)
n2much lower water content
DuckleOdinYggd: in Denmark, by law, it's 2.8% IPA, it's 2.8% MEK, and 1g/100L
n2and the acetone won't ruin your day
n2MEK = methyl ethyl ketone
user3209denatured is shit, but if you have that and you don't have IPA then you gotta piss with the dick you got
n2smells badly
OdinYggdMEK is wonderful stuff. Don't breathe it.
OdinYggdI thought they were using a benzene in the denatured ethanol
DuckleI find the 1g/100l of denatoniumbenzorat more intersting
kludgeOdinYggd: Ours is mostly pyridin, I think.
DuckleOdinYggd: This was the formula passed into law in 2013
DocScrutinizer05OdinYggd: Denatoniumbenzoat (1 Gramm/100 Liter)
n2OdinYggd, nope
n2benzene is for absolute alcohol
n2Denatured is ment to be not drunk
n2i.e. it must smell and taste horrible
user3209you tend to find benzene compounds in laboratory ethanol to try to get the last bit of water out
n2MEK smells horribly
tawri was trying to figure out why my vape tasted so nasty, i just put fresh cotton in, my hands were clean, i scrubbed everything
n2Denatonium salts /taste/ horribly
tawrthen i looked down and i left the temp at 600F to dry burn the crud off the coil and forgot to turn it back down lol
n2Denatonium is also marketed under the name "Bitrex"
Duckleand it makes you nauseous as well
n2the king of bitter
kludgebenzene is not added deliberately to absolute, it is an unfortunate contaminant that comes through the column as an azotrope and is hard to get rid of.
Ducklemy friend decided to breath fire at a party, and we only had denatured ethanol
n2kludge, it is preferred over water
n2since it is a more energetically favorable azeotrope
Ducklehe was complaining about the taste the rest of the night xD
n2than EtOH/water
kludgeM28: Right.
kludgen2: right.
kludgen2: But it is bad for drinking.
DuckleDenatonium, usually available as denatonium benzoate (under trade names such as BITTERANT-b, BITTER+PLUS, Bitrex or Aversion) and as denatonium saccharide (BITTERANT-s), is the most bitter chemical compound known, with bitterness thresholds of 0.05 ppm for the benzoate and 0.01 ppm for the saccharide.[2] It was discovered in 1958 during research on local anesthetics by MacFarlan Smith of Edinburgh, Scotland, and registered under the trademark Bitrex.
Ducklesounds pleassant
n2kludge, it certainly is.
n2There is also the option of using deliquescent salts
n2like calcium oxides
Duckle0.05 ppm
n2but that combination will have a short shelf life
kludgeAlthough after hearing about russians drinking phenol from railroad cars I will believe people will drink just about anything.
user3209better than putting methanol in it and killing a bunch of bums
n2kludge, IPA is actually rather nontoxic
n2And it does work as an intoxicant
DocScrutinizer05OdinYggd: ;EK is hostile to stuff that isn't sensitive to pure ethanol :-/
Duckleit's fun to squirt at people
n2It's worse than ethanol, yes
Duckleit cools a lot
spluder, denatured ethanol? So stoopid - in the US, it is 'denatured' so that the manufacturers don't have to pay alcohol taxes on it.
Ducklebeacuse it evaporates so quickly
n2splud, same here.
kludgen2: Yes, my grandfather's neighbor drank the 70% IPA. but only Walgreen's brand. It did kill him, but it took a decade.
Ducklesplud: same here
Duckleit's for cleaning
DuckleACTION is now known as KindOne too
DocScrutinizer05splud: same here (D)
Ducklewell, better run before matas closes
spludmay be useful for a lot of things, and yea, I used some recently for cleaning, but to add toxics to it just for taxation reasons is stoopid policy.
user3209you think people wouldn't drink cleaning ethanol? They still try to find ways to drink it even with the denaturing compounds in it
n2kludge, a wife of a US presidential candidate drank IPA...
n2user3209, they don't anymore
n2the old denaturants were easy to remove
n2now, they aren't
n2and they are much more unpleasant.
kludgen2: Betty Ford?
n2kludge, Kitty Doukakis i believe
kludgen2: Ahh, okay. Also makes sense.
user3209I've seen people drinking distilled denatured alcohol, they say it still tastes terrible, but you can keep it down
kludgen2: I can understand how being married to a lot of presidential candidates would make one drink anything too.
n2kludge, especially the current president
n2although she has to keep slim
n2so amphetamines
spludthere's a recipe for an exciting evening, eh?
DocScrutinizer05user3209: I've seen a guy drink perfume
bart416oops, I parked 66 kilonewton on top of my polyimide foil, lol
DocScrutinizer05freaking mad
bart416entered the comma incorrectly on the vacuum press
bart416It'dll be flat :D
kludgeDocScrutinizer05: I have drunk some Italian aperitifs that were like drinking cologne, I think.
spludoh, agnostra. ehwwwww.
user3209My friend has offered to share pills with on multiple occasions despite him not even knowing what they were *supposed* to be
JFK911^ hangs out with bill cosby
user3209he's like, "My dealer says they're good shit"
kludgeACTION gives user3209 a very powerful laxative.
user3209and I'm like - how about no
tomeaton17probably amphetamines
nohopamphetamines good. rat poinson bad.
user3209one of them I identified as probably Vallium, the other was some kind of upper, so probably amphetamines
spluddamn, I can't remember the name of some particular drink I got while I was at the Munich airport (wasn't German, just where I was).
spludGawdawful thing.
DocScrutinizer05unless you got a mass spectro, you should rather steer clear of that shite
tomeaton17just get some marquis reagent
user3209I recorded myself getting drunk because I didn't think I was affected that much... watching the recording later - I was so wrong. :/
n2tomeaton17, doesnt cover enough by itself
n2you'd need the mandelin, too
DocScrutinizer05apropos mass spectro, did somebody hear about that sugar cube sized one hitting the market meanwhile? I seen it like over 10 years ago, a guy from Fraunhofer shown it to me
jsoftDo you guys think they will ever send hippos into space?
redrabbitwhat for
user3209jsoft I don't know why they would
tomeaton17n2: I only have experience when using it to pid something
DocScrutinizer05"vacuum? not needed, the gap between those two plates is so tiny, only single molecules can come in anyway"
kludgeIf you want to terraform a warm water-bearing climate, hippos might be a good addition.
user3209that's a pretty long way off
DocScrutinizer05"high voltage? the distance between electrodes is so tiny, you get insane V/m fields with just 5V"
kludgeDocScrutinizer05: put a grid in the middle and voila, planar grid triode!
jsoftwtf is wrong with you people
jsoftWhat is wrong with a hippo in space
jsoftA hipponaught
jsoftit would be hillarious
magic_ninja_workget out
jsoftSeeing one trying to fix a sattelite or something
jsoftBumping it into like a clumsy idiot :D
magic_ninja_workWhy did I want to go back to school again?
DocScrutinizer05why not Orcas, they are smarter
kludgejsoft: I think more likely you'll just have grossly overweight people who are shaped like hippos. Would that be sufficient?
kludgeDocScrutinizer05: yes, and used to zero gravity anyway.
jsoftI want to see what NASA would come up with for a hippo helmet
kludgejsoft: Aren't hippos some kind of ungulate? Don't ungulates fart constantly in a horrible way?
kludgeI don't think you could get hippos S-rated.
DocScrutinizer05ACTION idly wonders if dolphins still have that little stone in ear for sensing "down"
user3209_I think I punned so hard I killed my internet connection
kludgeDocScrutinizer05: I'd assume so since they don't swim upside-down.
kludgeDocScrutinizer05: you'd think that whole vestibular system would be better than ever.
user3209_it's important for dolphins to know which way is up, since they need to surface to breathe
magic_ninja_workkludge, that would be great. No ventilation in the space suit.
jsoftkludge, that is the incorrect attitude kludge
DocScrutinizer05user3209_: ack
user3209_you have a ventilated space suit?
redrabbithippos in space.. maybe in some kind of distropian mansion with space pablo escobar 2.0
user3209_doesn't that let all the space get in and blow up your face like in that movie?
jsoftCmon this needs to be done./
jsoftI think it would be funny as fuck
user3209_jsoft what psychoactive subsances are currently in your bloodstream?
jsoftJust booze.
jsoftbut I have pondered apon this before :)
DocScrutinizer05hmmpf, why do I suddenly think about those two guys in "Brazil" un their suits
user3209_I think a hippocampus is eminantly more achieveable
jsoftuser3209_, whats that
user3209_it's when you bring your hippo to college with you
kludgeWe have no brain here. Only controller.
bart416Intelligence and being in control are over-rated
bart416Also I bought a Keithley 238
bart416lol, I managed to get three days into November without buying a piece of gear.
DocScrutinizer05time for %coffee
user3209_bart416 that's the beauty of excessive alcohol consumption
DocScrutinizer05aah! time for ☕
kludgebart416: why? Going to do automated curve tracing?
bart416kludge, it was cheap
bart416Only 1100 EUR
bart416For an electrometer grade SMU
bart416The guy who previously owned it tried to fix it
kludgebart416: input impedance is pretty high on those, I have used them on condenser mike stuff.
bart416But he used wirewound instead of carbon composit resistors as Keithley says you should use...
kludgeWhy composites?
jsoftBecause hippos, thats why
bart416That's what it's called, I don't know man :P
bart416But as a result he gets a 100 uA open loop current
bart416But if you look up the service manual and schematics you notice those resistors are the reason
tomeaton17You love kiethley
kludgeThe inductance of wirewounds is pretty high even when they call them noninductive but I'd be surprised that's an issue.
bart416<3 Keithley
bart416<3 Keithley
kludgeI hardly ever see composites today because of all the popcorn noise.
bart416Mhhh yeah but these run fairly high temp
bart416And knowing Keithley they took that into account on the design.
kludgeWeird. So it is happy now?
bart416I'll see Monday.
bart416Plus worst case scenario I'll just cal it away
kludgeI have a keithley bench DVM at home, it is solid and reliable and does not autorange.
bart416Ah, I have a bench DMM of theirs
bart416well, multiple actually lol
bart416But I pretty much only use the 2001, that thing doesn't do noise.
spludYesterday's post brought me some new RFID cards. My reader panel can pick them up from about 7cm - even through a hardcover book.
kmcnow try a steel plate :D
archivistor a tinfoil hat
DocScrutinizer05hardcover book == air, on that topic
DocScrutinizer05well, almost
password4i cant wait for this shit day too pass , suchhunger such money spent
DocScrutinizer05which probably is one of the major points of RFID
user3209_does it have metalic ink on the cover /s
bart416password4, how much are you at today?
bart416I'm at 1300 EUR today :(
spludWell, consider that I can install the panel recessed into the interior wall of my barn, and still read a card near the exterior wall (with no apparent reader there)
tawr bart416 if i didn't know any better
tawri'd say you loved keithley
password4i dont even have that much to spend in more than a month
DocScrutinizer05ACTION starts selling jackets with alu foil, tagged "anti Taser, anti Lase, anti Maser, anti RF death rays"
tawrbut i'm not sure
spludMy present problem is sourcing suitable long-throw solenoids for a sliding door latch.
tawrDocScrutinizer05: except they amplify..
bart416tawr, mhhh seriously?
password4I'm at the point where I'm refusing to go by a bread
bart416I wouldn't have guessed.
tawrsplud: how long? aftermarket alarm system door lockers
majukErmmm... Bit 13... is two bits? what?
tawrsplud: most of them are 2"+ and geared motors
tawrrack and pinion
SpeedEvilsplud: why are you not just looking on ebay for door lock solenoids
tawrdc 12v
SpeedEviland yes
tawrand dirt cheap
SpeedEvilthey are often not really solenoids
tawryeah just brought that up
bart416For the topic: Keithley Appreciation Moment: Nov. 31, 2017 - 17:00 CET
kludgeWhat about Boonton? Don't they deserve appreciation too?
tawrbart416: btw tgeeky just fixed his keithley 5 1/2 digit bench dmm
synx508the 238 seems nice, well done bart416!
bart416We can plan that in on the 32th
SpeedEvilSolenoids generally produce 1/100th of the force*distance of a somewhat equivalent power rotating motor going at 6000RPM
SculptorSpeedEvil, tawr, are you talking about wax motors
bart416synx508, I'm semi amazed it wasn't picked up yet. It's been on eBay for weeks apparently :S
DocScrutinizer05particularly "nifty": Homematic door lock system, turning key in cyclinder
tawrSculptor: no
bart416But the tagging was weird
synx508bart416, those are the best buys usually!
synx508I have been failing at ebay lately :/
DocScrutinizer05they are the opposite of "dirt cheap" though
Sculptortawr, ahh, electric door locks
kludgeCar door lock solenoids are often inexpensive but those also now often use motors.
Sculptorwax motors, or wax sensors, are used for laundry machine doors
tawrSculptor: yes, he wanted a long throw solenoid, i brought up aftermarket vehicle door lockers, which are 12vdc geared rack and pinion modules that are a few dollars
Sculptorand for car valves
tawrkludge: i know, but that may be a benefit not a hinderance
tawri go through them occasionally on my truck
tawrwell not any more but at one point i'd go through a pair every like 8-9 months
synx508most recently getting outbid on 8663A after failing to get the 5370B
tomeaton17I have used em locks to make the door system at my workplace
tomeaton17Its all good until there is a power cut
kludgeAt work our system uses solenoids that keep the doors locked so if burglars cut the power the building opens up.
tomeaton17Yeah thats the same here the locks use power to keep it shut
user3209battery backup accessable from the outside like on an electronic safe
Sculptorwho wants a cheap electric door lock, here it is
electrobotSculptor just linked to Cisa Lock Release dead lock mechanism. (electronic use) - YouTube
kludgeMind you when the power goes out a bunch of security guys show up all over the places.
FauxBuilding fail-safe stuff is a pain, if you care about it not drawing a ton of current. :/
tomeaton17The system is a complete PITA is was designed by a beginner who made no documentation and has now left the company
tomeaton17(I say left but I really mean sent back to jail)
user3209just a DC jack on the outside of the door so you can plug in a battery pack
kludgetomeaton17: To jail for burglary?
kludgeI have mixed feelings about a locking system designed by burglars.
Fauxuser3209: That's not safe, if there's a fire or the solenoid or electromagnet fails.
SpeedEvilI strongly recommend watching on security.
electrobotSpeedEvil just linked to The Search for the Perfect Door - Deviant Ollam - YouTube
password4ily 2 hours to go , then i can make food
SpeedEvilWhy doors are often broken, and you don't even need to pick locks.
tomeaton17kludge No he was a paedophile
SpeedEvilOr force the mechanism to unlock with other means
SculptorSpeedEvil, no doors can protect a guy with a mission
SpeedEvilSculptor: Well, no.
user3209I was figuring the exit doors would be mechanically accessable only to get out, whereas the door to get in can require more effort to open since you don't need to get into the building while it is on fire with as much urgency
user3209if the firefighters come they can just break the door
password4Sculptor, thats a very single minded argument
Sculptorpardon my engrish
kludgeI am not worried about the guys with the mission, I am worried about students who have nothing better to do with their time than look for unattended tools.
SpeedEvilSculptor: but if your secure door has a 5mm gap underneath it and they can put a long wire under the door, and open it in 10s by grabbing the door handle from the other side.
password4what kludge say
user3209someone's been watching defcon
password4if you have people specifically going after you , you are screwed
SpeedEvilSculptor: or in 1s by spraying freeze spray through the top of the door, ...
kludgeStudents took my brass mallet and my 47/64 collet.
Sculptora 5mm gap would be an awful audio and thermal insulator
password4but if someone just wanting to steal from anyone , their going to go with the easier target
SpeedEvilSculptor: cosmetic door seals to seal for thermal reasons do not help
user3209I opened a door with a PIR motion sensor on the inside by printing a black page on a laser printer and slipping it under the door to make it think someone was inside
password4i shoul not have drank beers
Sculptori have a 55year old door
user3209the page was hot enough to trigger the PIR
user3209and get us into the Electronics lab after hours
password4ACTION tries to stop thinking of food
spludOn that topic, here in the USA, it's apparently "National Sandwich Day"
user3209is there any days left that aren't a national * day at this point?
password4ACTION looks around for forgotton coins
spludMy wife is working from home today, so assuming she doesn't have teleconference meetings, at lunch, I might take her to a Thai place in town...
archivistACTION shows password2 a lemon meringue pie
password4awe man , dont do that
spludnational election day is also "National Go F*** Yourself" day/
spludThat's three asterisks, count 'em.
tawrsplud: did you read what we said
spludtawr: when?
user3209no politics
tawrsplud: when you asked about solenoids and i told you about car door unlockers
joe_zsplud, that may be good news for me, if local sandwiches places have the same buy one get one free deal
joe_z(with purchase of drink ):<
spluduser: I wasn't speaking to any particular party or individual. Sorry.
password4ACTION wants to note that he is not associated with user3209 in anyway
spludYea, car door solenoid might be the way to go.
tawrit's not a solenoid
tawrit's a geared motor and rack and pinion
user3209no worries
spludThat though is a push-pull sort of thing.
tawrand several inch
tawrno it's not, not neccessarily
tawrmost of them are spring loaded
password4push pull , several inch
password4your ex might get excited
tawrso actuate = pulls in, depower = spring extends
spludWell, it's either running the lock plunger one way, or the other.
kludgeThe one in my car works that way.
tawrit depends like i said, some have spring return, others are driven rack and pinion both ways
spludI've never had a car which was only unlocked while power was applied to the mechanism.
tawrbut they have >2" stroke, more torque than you'd think looking at them, are dirt cheap
bart416<synx508> I have been failing at ebay lately :/ <-- auchy
spludThough, at the point I'm dealing with something like that, I need to implement an intermediate driver from the RFID board to handle the thing as something other than "unlocked while energized".
user3209windsheild wiper motors are beasts
bart416I ran like 20 bucks next to an R&S VNA
bart416I was so pissed
tawrsplud: except not, the same way you'd use a solenoid you can use one of these, with a spring.
tawrjust like a solenoid would be used
user3209auto parts are super cheap from the wreaker yard
tawrwell, aftermarket ones are not like OEM's
spludWill need to check into one. Ideally, from the inside, I want a latch that releases the pin (should always be able to exit without power),
tawrthese are for aftermarket adding power door locks
tawrthey are much more useful and universal than OEM systems
spludthe only wrecker yard around here is probably 25 miles north of here. Pretty spotty on parts at times.
tawrsplud: this would work. without an H bridge. spring closes it, power sucks it in or whatever
tawryou wouldn't find one of these there, and if you did, you'd pay more than the new price on amazon for it
bart416I've been soldering in vacuum, damn nice solder joints
password4in a vacuum?
kludgeIt's full of cat hair in there.
spludThe cold vacuum of space.
user3209how you you manipulate the iron in a vacuum, or is it a wave solder machine or something?
user3209* in a vacuum chamber
user3209do you have a vacuum glove box because that would be so cool
bart416user3209, lol can't say due to NDA :(
bart416It's a sweet trick though
bart416The metal grid is virtually perfect with this method
bart416Going to do some shear testing Monday.
user3209is vacuum better than argon inert atmosphere?
paulrsdo you need flux ?
bart416paulrs, yes
bart416user3209, apparently
user3209what does the flux do if there's no oxygen?
bart416Remove oxide
user3209ahh, since the PCB wasn't made under vacuum
user3209it already has oxides on it
user3209makes sense
user3209what if you etched the PCB in a vacuum chamber / inert gas environment - would you need flux then bart416?
user3209do they make solder guns that spit out argon like a MIG welder?
user3209seems like that would be the simplest way to get an oxygen free solder joint
tawrwell migs don't usually spit out argon
FuchikomaI suppose you could rig up a hot air run to suck in 100% inert gas
tawrtigs do
user3209tungsten is a metal :P
tawrerr yes
user3209what inert gas does a Metal Inert Gas welder use if not Argon?
tawrand oxides on tungsten are a huge deal, even how you grind them is a huge deal
user3209unless it's a gassless mig
user3209which still seems like an oxymoron to me
tawrmost use 100% co2, a good LWS salesman will talk a hobbiest into C25 (which is more than an order of magnitude more expensive for the same amount of gas) which is 25% co2 75% argon
tawrthats because it's not called mig, user3209
tawrit's called FCAW
tawrthat is literally the opposite
FuchikomaThen I have a machine that does the impossible I guess
tawrmig is migaw, a subtype of gmaw
tawrno you have a bad memory
tawrflux core arc welding
archivistaluminium mig used argon when I was a lad
user3209what would happen if you tried to use nitrogen as the inert gas?
tawrnitrides, user3209.
tawrall gasses aside from argon are actually active in welding
tawrthey _DO_ things
tawrand affect the arc, the weld pool
tawrthey do stuff besides provide atmospheric protection
FuchikomaNo, I'm bad at following the conversation
tawrbut you were SO SURE a moment ago!
user3209there's a rare and seldom used diving mix called Argox which is used to reduce to cooling effect of Heliox and allow easier voice communication (no squeeky voice)
tawrthere are many gasses used for welding, even mig welding
FuchikomaI was right within the context of what I thought was being discussed!
FuchikomaNot my fault you were talking about the wrong subject
Sculptorco2 welding - co2
tawrfor regular steel and stainless welding you can run 100% co2 (which is what i recommend to everyone and what I use), c25, etc. then you start getting into weird stuff like trimix for SPRAYARC
tawrwhich is a whole other world of mig. it's not really even mig (i mean it is, but the actual process is so different than short circuit or globular transfer)
Sculptortawr, don't work with co2 in a poorly vented room
tawrSculptor: that doesn't matter Sculptor
user3209vacuum welding when?
tawrif anything it's the safest gas to do it
FuchikomaDon't weld period in a poorly vented rom
tawrthere we go
tawrargon 'poisoning' sucks
Sculptori does if you have leaks
tawryour body doesn't have oxygen sensors.
tawryou can detect CO2. that's it
user3209argon poisoning is just inert gas asphixiation
tawrwelding with co2 in a room with bad vent is the best case scenario
tawrsince you can FEEL it
tawrwith argon or nitrogen, there is no signs or symptoms
tawruntil it's too late, look no further than pilot training
user3209it's a popular suicide method on 4chan
user3209although usually they suggest helium
tawruser3209: yeah. even though it shouldn't be, argon "FEELS" like it sticks to the bottom of your lungs over time
user3209helium no feelim
tawrand you can't quite breath it out
tawrso upside down or face down slightly declined
user3209it's heavier than air so that's not supprising
jaggzor hyperventilate to mix it up and get it out?
user3209jaggz, standing on your head is more effective
jaggzif you're capable enough
jaggz[at the time]
user3209you can see Adam do it on mythbusters when he inhales a super heavy gas to give himself a deep voice
user3209sulfer hexafluride I think?
bart416<user3209> do they make solder guns that spit out argon like a MIG welder? <-- Yes
user3209jaggz, the important part is not to be standing upright. even laying on your side is pretty good
bart416They make solder stations that do that
bart416But honestly they're all inferiour compared to vapour phase soldering.
bart416You first replace the air in the chamber with nitrogen
bart416And then transfer heat with a fluorinated oil
bart416(That's boiling obviously to get the vapour)
bart416That way you have perfect solder joints always, heh
user3209jaggz recovery position for people with heavy inert gas inhalation, if you can't get them in the trendelenberg position
jaggz(hrm.. I had a dream about some conspiracy about some chemicals called quinolones)
jaggzforgot about that.. yesterday dream
jaggzuser3209, ahh.. as the gas continues to leave the body you need to continue to keep them at an incline
jaggzhow am I supposed to get Nitrous Oxide (food grade)?
jaggzI need an actual canister of the stuff, not these stupid whipping things
user3209it's restricted I imagine - the medical grade stuff is for sure
jaggzyeah they want an FDA permit.. others don't sell food grade..
user3209since it's used as a recrational drug
jaggzthen there are food grade places that want to deliver it and charge $200 or something for a deposit
user3209huh, so you can get it.
jaggzfood grade (well, for the purpose of food) is, by law, unregulated.
bart416Uhm call up Air Liquide and place an order? :P
user3209what are you using it for that you can't use industrial grade?
jaggzyeah but.. I can get a medical-grade refill for $30 (but I don't have a container).. and the food places don't seem to do refills or something.
theMagnumOrangewhat is a good thing to call myself as a freelancer - embedded systems designer - embedded systems consultant...?
jaggzuser3209, food
jaggzactually, technically it's soap :)
bart416Honestly, when I order gas bottles at work they don't even ask for any verification, just the delivery address was sufficient verification o_O
jaggzbut soap is not excluded from the law, specifically.. and I'll be testing this on food anyway
bart416It's fucking scary
jaggzwhy scary?
user3209I know some guys that mix their dive gas (trimix) using industrial helium to save money - they haven't died yet.
user3209medical helium is expensive as fuck
bart416Uhm have you checked their catalogue?
bart416They throw around bottles of fluorine as if its nothing.
jaggzoh.. not no2
user3209NO2 for auto racing would be much easier to aquire and would probably be fine for soap
DocScrutinizer05bart416: I mused about making a solder gun using Galden vapor
DocScrutinizer05maybe revamp one of those shitty water vapor cleaners
jaggzuser3209, probably not.. people are sensitive to the odors, and I couldn't then use it in food
bart416We use Galden HS240 at work
user3209does industrial NO2 smell different?
user3209I thought it was just a different purity guarentee
bart416DocScrutinizer05, the only real issue with Galden is that it's insanely expensivel
gottanameACTION sits on bart416 
gottanamene ne bart416
gottanamehave you used induction sensors before?
DocScrutinizer05bart416: well, I wouldn't want to spil it across the floor and bench, ratzher catch it up in a catch basin
user3209would using dry ice to exclude air from a tub and then soldering in the bottom of it improve the solder joint quality?
bart416gottaname, uhm have I used coils, uhm yes :P \
bart416user3209, dunno
bart416Most commercial systems just use N2
bart416A bottle of N2 is really really really cheap
gottanamebart416, I bought some omron induction sensors, but they're 2 wires instead of the usual 3
gottanameblue and brown
user3209I mean, it's heavier than air so it should force most of the oxygen out of the bottom of the tub
tawrdamnit jaggz
bart416Oh wait, that's only with prostituton streams
tawruser3209: no
jaggztawr, heh.. what
DocScrutinizer05user3209: theoretically yes, practically you need more joints in your arms to solder that way
user3209depends how deep the tub would have to be to get a good reduction in the oxygen
tawrindustrial n2o
gottanamebart416, so... 2 wire induction sensors?
tawrhas adulterants in it
tawrso people don't get high off of it
tawralso has some sulfur i believe
user3209ahh, that makes sense
tawrversus medical grade
user3209and food grade I imagine
DocScrutinizer05user3209: s/reduction of oxigen / avoid CO2 getting out of the thing by you making turbulence in it/
user3209which would be why food grade is so hard to get
tawrwell food grade would be the same as medical user3209
tawrno reason for it to not be
user3209we have tanks of medical CO2 and food grade CO2 right next to eachother in our gas room
tawrits just medical grade means after X amount of fills the valve and cylinder is washed out and cleaned, etc
user3209they're diffent and the medical is more expensive
tawri use food grade co2 (hint: it's the same) for welding
tawrand as a powertank
DocScrutinizer05N2O cheap: cream siphon capsules
tawrnot cheap at all
DocScrutinizer05well, "cheap"
DocScrutinizer05at least nutrition grade
tawri use 20lb co2 tanks for my welder, and also have a powertank regulator for it
tawrfor when i would offroad, go to the dragstrip, etc
user3209the medical grade stuff is more tightly controlled
tawrthrow a 20lb co2 tank in the back of your truck, you have enough air to air up 4 tires 4x for big mudding tires, car tires, probably 15+ sets
tawrplus they're a really nice size
DocScrutinizer05user3209: more tightly controlled than nutrition?
spludfood grade CO2 for beverage dispensing.
user3209tightly controlled as in quality control
spludShould be readily available.
tawr <-- one of my tanks + my regulator
DocScrutinizer05CO2 is a nobrainer
tawrit's nice to be able to run a 1/2" impact at full power in the middle of nowhere
tawror know you could air up a flat tire 12 times from flat to 30psi, etc
jaggztawr, order me a small no2 canister
jaggzfood grade or higher
jaggzwhat fittings are used on the no2 thing too?
DocScrutinizer05NO2 or N2O?
tawri have a 40cf inert tank i use for my AR/HE mix, or for 100% nitrogen
tawri believe it has a different valve than n2o
jaggzoh.. n2o :)
tawrand definitely from no2 :)
jaggzlocal welding place said they all have different fittings
tawrjaggz: yeah but once past the regulator
tawryou can put whatever you want
user3209medical Nitrosoxide is often premixed with oxygen to prevent accidental asphyxiation so read the tanks carefully
tawrthey are all 1/4npt at the reg
jaggzbut they either don't have it, or only do medical grade and I'd need a FDA permit or something..
tawrmy first powertank regulator I made, i bought a cheap oxygen regulator, removed the nipple to change it over to co2 tank, removed the welding fitting on output and put a 1/4" air quick connect on it
tawrjaggz: why would fittings be involved with that though?
jaggztawr, just was looking into what equipment/tubing/etc..
user3209are you sure the you don't need an FDA permit for the food grade stuff? They are the *food* and drug administration after all
jaggzneeded to be used
tawrif you can handle adulterants in the gas to prevent you from getting high, it's dirt cheap
tawrfor like the type used for cars
tawrwhich i have seen idiots get high off of, btw.
tawrmorons, all I can say
jaggzpart of the positive of n2o in whipped cream is the slight sweet taste
user3209people will always get high
jaggzI don't feel like adding sulfur compounds to my whipped cream
tawroh for that jaggz i'd just use the machine for it
tawrand buy the little capsules
user3209you literally cannot stop them
tawri think they're 2 bucks a pop, but they last a long time
tawri just recently bought a new one
jaggzwell, we're going to be heating the fluid too.. and we need to keep the heat separate from the canisters
tawrone thing I do myself is carbonation, though
jaggzalso, a lot is wasted with our experimental setup
jaggzso cost becomes an issue
tawrwe can take it to pm if you'd like jaggzmeoff *wink*
jaggzwell, when you invite me that way how can I resist
tawru no it bae
bart416<gottaname> bart416, so... 2 wire induction sensors? <-- No idea :D
password4soon I'll have food
bart416It's probably really just a simple coil
bart416Or its one of those fancy pulsed current thingies
user3209I love when this chat goes off topic almost as much a when it stays on topic
user3209##electronics is best IRC
DocScrutinizer05indeed, best off-topic chat at least :-)
password4mash , its like smash without sex
user3209mashing is a different cooking technique to smashing. Neither of them should involve your genitals /s
password4well their not much use otherwise
password4seeing as the only people i talk to is you guys
user3209you used "their" where it should have been "they're"
jsoftWho gives a shit
password4thanx jsoft
user3209the incorrect correction is humerous because it subverts the expectation that a correction will be correct itself
user3209or at least that was my intention
password4you know a joke needs to be funny , atleast you tried
user3209given that "thar" is a phonetic pronounciation of "their" with an accent
jsoftFucking hell
password4wehres the mute button?
jsoftNevermind the point being expressed, lets pick apart the text exressing it
user3209well, you axed
DocScrutinizer05not THAT stzarts to be really funny
DocScrutinizer05now* that starts*
tawruser3209: we have some incredibly smart, driven, interesting people in here
password4DocScrutinizer05, i was thinking you did that on purpose
tawrbesides me, i mean
password4he means me
password4well not driven
jsoftA toast then, tawr, to slackers!
user3209I try to fool myself into thinking that I'm fooling others into thinking I know what I'm talking about, but it's not working
DocScrutinizer05rgat's amusingly non-amusing
user3209I have a shallow understanding of a great breadth of topics, but when people start going into detail I quickly find myself out of my depth
jsoftuser3209, so stop arguing and ask questions
user3209What do you guys think about bio-energy from body heat - will it ever be a practical powersource for any purpose?
password4i think i finally understand whats wrong with me
SpeedEvilUnless for heating.
password4heating your bae?
SpeedEvilCarnot means that unless you have a very, very cold heatsink to work against, you can extract ~0 work from small temp differences.
SpeedEvilAt 10C, and room temp, you have a best case efficiency of ~3%.
password4theres that shitty gas based piston , stirling? sterling?
password4something liek that
SpeedEvilSo, 3W, if you enclosed the full human.
DocScrutinizer05I think there are some working PoC of using body as heat source in energy harvesting
user3209I thought for a bit about implants that need an extremely small amount of power to operate, but even then it doesn't seem like it would ever be practical
jsoftI think potatoes are versatile
SpeedEviluser3209: it doesn't work even worse in that case.
DocScrutinizer05^^^ energy harvesting
SpeedEviluser3209: as there is little internal temperature difference in the body
password4i want to try and grow my own wheat
password4but i decided $1 is too much for me to spend now on non essential things
password4well more like $10
redrabbitwheat is cheap
password4i just want to grow it
user3209the temp difference between next to a blood vessel and very shallow subcutaneous can be a degree or two depending on environmental temp
password4if you are implying that i should rather buy wheat rather than grrow it , then dont
SpeedEviluser3209: yes, which has a best case efficiency of 0.3 (or 0.6) %
redrabbitwell if its for fun why not
password4fun is overrated
SpeedEviluser3209: and shallow subcutaneous can have a Qi charger stuck to it.
redrabbitidk about production though
password4its for the rich and the young
redrabbitits hard to compete with what you can buy
redrabbitcost wise
password4its shit easy
password4scaling up is the issue
user3209the only thing it would be practical for is if you could make it last more than a decade, otherwise you may as well implant a primary lithium cell, no matter how small the drawn current is
redrabbitwell, try it
SpeedEviluser3209: Or other means - mechanical, glucose fuel cell
SpeedEvilI wish glucose fuel cell was a reliable thing.
FuchikomaThat's called a "person"
DocScrutinizer05>>Miniature thermocouples have been developed that convert body heat into electricity and generate 40μW at 3V with a 5 degree temperature gradient<<
user3209read that one
kcrowsugar is good
user320940 micro watts is not a lot, and their device covered almost the entire forearm IIRC
password4Fuchikoma, or a rat
OdinYggdAre the numbers given in The Matrix accurate for human energy output?
SpeedEvilOdinYggd: thermal energy output is ~100W
SpeedEvilor 200W for fatties
password4someone fapping produces much more useable energy
jsofthah :D
password4than 40uW
DocScrutinizer0550W when idling
user3209I'm wondering about subdermal solar cells - if we only need a tiny amount of power (microwatts) then enough light would probably penetrate a thin layer of skin
HighInBCsounds like a plant
HighInBCyou would have to turn gree4n
redrabbitSpeedEvil: id say fatties emmit not much more energy, they store it:
OdinYggdHuman powered factories used to be a thing before electricity. They were called work houses, and sheltered the homeless in exchange for physical labor running the mill
SpeedEviluser3209: if you get it that close to the skin, it tends to pop out
DocScrutinizer05user3209: where to place that? face? hands?
HighInBCand you would need to go naked too
SpeedEvilredrabbit: A heavy person at a static weight has a notably larger basal metabolic rate.
OdinYggdOliver Twist lived in such a workhouse at the start of the book
HighInBCthe surface area to mass ratio would be the important factor
HighInBCround objects have less surface area to volume so assuming equal density...
redrabbitin that case a slim person would be abetter battery
HighInBCOdinYggd: Dickens always starts out great, ends great, but lags in the middle
HighInBClike Great Expectations, good book but I was expecting more
FuchikomaProblem is about half of the ehat energy a person produces is latent heat
user3209underneath the fingernails could be an interesting place
DocScrutinizer05what the heck is latent heat?
password4its heat that is late to the party
Fuchikomaas opposed to sensible heat
user3209that way the nail would protect the skin covering the cells from being damaged
DocScrutinizer05ACTION pierces some chips underneath user3209's fingernails
user3209probably too complicated for insertion though
Fuchikomaheat that is released as a constant-temperature process
password4not really complicated
password4just painfull as fuck
FuchikomaFor humans, that means sweating and evaporation in their breath
password4my big toe bend backwards the other day
redrabbitthen 1yr later you can rename to 4fingers
user3209well, that's part of what makes it complicated
user3209the fingertips are a very sensitive part of the body
DocScrutinizer05nail beds more so
user3209and damage to them is very debilitating
redrabbitbody mods
redrabbitACTION pukes
kcrowACTION grabs the puke and flies off. . . .
password4redrabbit, theres one body mod I'd like to try
corecodeanybody know how pata 80 terminated the 40 ground conductors?
DocScrutinizer05crows... eating everything
user3209bodymods are only stupid because they're pointless - things like implantable pain pumps, neurostimulaters and pacemakers are very pointed
password4and i would like you to atleast halfway read the guys experience
DocScrutinizer05kcrow: btw did you teach your fellows to eat squirrels now?
password4oh wait , he has video of it :D
electrobotpassword4 just linked to Diy Magnetic Implant - YouTube
DocScrutinizer05corecode: terminated? GND?
redrabbitguess what
redrabbitthe nail thing exists
redrabbitits not designed to be put inside your body though
user3209One of the ideas I have filed under 'interesting' is a cochlear implant, but being fed non-acoustic information.
redrabbitjust on top of the nails
redrabbitsounds awkward
corecodesome pins are connected to the ground bar
user3209on top of the nails defeats the purpose, we want it to be subdermal so you have no wires going through the skin, providing a portal for infection
DocScrutinizer05well, synthetic nails
OdinYggdUnder the skin is no good
OdinYggdThermocouples are heat engines- they operate between a hot reservoir and a cold reservoir
user3209we moved on to photovoltaics
OdinYggdSubdermal implantation you wouldn't get enough heat out of the body because it would be surrounded by warm flesh
redrabbitso making it a fake nail works better
user3209enough light penetrates the nailbed to give us a bit of power
OdinYggdWhy not just make a photosensitive ink
OdinYggdand tatoo a solar panel on the person's arm
user3209how would that even work?
redrabbitwith cancer
Sculptori'll have what OdinYggd is having
OdinYggdI have no idea but I'm sure someone is willing to figure it out
user3209photosensitive ink doesn't produce electricity
OdinYggdIt uses light to change the shape of a molecule
OdinYggdSo if you do this in a way that electricity is given off instead
OdinYggdyou get an ink that has applications for photovoltaics
OdinYggdCreate an array of this as a tatoo and you might end up with a skin-embedded PV cell
spludFuel Cells.
DocScrutinizer05Sculptor: not without mass spectro to analyze first ;-)
heibol /j hamradio
OdinYggdsplud, a fuel cell that metabolizes glucose?
user3209it's kinda like my idea to have a spray can which sprays LED nanomachines onto a surface, then they network with eachother to create a TV screen the size and shape you sprayed
OdinYggdThen all those diabetes patients, instead of needing insulin, just charge their phones from their belly
user3209I don't think it's gonna happen
spludOdinYggd, yes,
OdinYggdwin/win cure
spludAnd would potentially benefit Diabetics.
OdinYggdI swear I am not a genius or anything.
OdinYggdI might be temporarially insane right now
OdinYggdBut this is when ideas are born
spludIn some cases, it's permanent insanity that takes 'em to market,
spludThat link above speaks to enzymatic glucose air batteries.
user32091969 :)
OdinYggdI was thinking a more integrated system
DocScrutinizer05apropos PV ink: they explained (tongue in cheek) in TV how to make a PV cell from glass, tooth paste, cranberry(?) juice, and some other usual shit. That might be mildly suitable to apply subcutaneously
spludEBFC = Enzymatic Bio Fuel Cell
OdinYggdAn implanted 'organ' that combines glucose and oxygen from the blood stream and produces electricity from doing so
OdinYggdLimit the rate of consumption to maintain healthy glucose and oxygen levels
OdinYggdThat way you aren't sending the person into low shock by over-consuming
password4haha , gold plated scalpel
spludMUST.. PLAY... MOBILE...GAME...
user3209combine the device with a subcutanious blood glucose monitor and it could theoretically do that - it would have to put the energy somewhere though
spludCause of death: recharging his mobile device too rapidly via his EBFC...
spludImplanted status LEDs <g>
user3209Something more modern (2016)
user3209"Ex vivo electric power generation in human blood
user3209using an enzymatic fuel cell in a vein replica"
spludWave your arm around and look at your foream to check the status of your EBFC.
spludImplant a few LiPo cells.
DocScrutinizer05OdinYggd: (diabetes) except insulin isn't a glucose antidot but a sort of "catalyst" for cells to make use of glucose. Eliminating all glucose from blood will kill you pretty instantly
redrabbitACTION prefers a power pack
OdinYggdYes it will.
OdinYggdDiabetics have to beware of both high levels and low levels
OdinYggdBut this thing could burn off the excess as electricity, while providing early warnings of declining low levels
redrabbitwell you could give it to fatties so they can use the energy before its stored into fat
spludMoving on. Microturbines? Fart harvesting (again, fuel cell)
user3209if you just dump the heat into your blood then you're body will naturally dilate the capilaries in your skin to get rid of it
user3209(you get flushed, like when your exercise)
password4fart and quaff
user3209microturbines do too much damage to blood cells
OdinYggdThat isn't always reliable though
OdinYggdEspecially on a fat person, in many cases even the slightest physical activity makes them drenched in sweat
OdinYggdand in extreme weather, dangerous overtemperature conditions are possible
user3209but we could generate energy from peristalsis in your intestines
user3209you can monitor core temp to ensure that safe levels aren't exceeded
user3209or you could use my unpatented idea
password4or from parastatals
user3209"The Cooling Gauntlet is a wearable medical device which can automatically apply a continuously variable cooling effect in order to regulate a patient’s core body temperature. The device is worn on the wrist and utilises a partial vacuum to inhibit local vasoconstriction while heat is transferred from the body to an external heat sink via Peltier heat pump. The gauntlet will use sensors to monitor the patient’s core body temperature
user3209and adjust its output to ensure the core temperature stays within a preset range."
user3209I've been half-arsed attempting to build this thing fro a couple years now
electrobotpassword4 just linked to (Diy Magnetic Implant - YouTube)
user3209and I'm still not sure it will work
password4jut watch 1 min
user3209I've seen someone implant a magnetic implant without anaestetic before
password4that happens in this video too
user3209I hope they remembered to encapsulate it first
SpeedEvilPet implanters are pretty cheap
user3209or they're gonna have a bad time
password424k gold plate
user3209ahh, I know the video
user3209yeah, the plating breaks down, his finger gets infected and he has to remove it a couple months later - full recovery though, no permanent damage
password4i think this is his 3rd attempt
SpeedEvilI would probably try to seal it in glass.
user3209Should encapsulate it in PTFE
password4gold is not a bad choice
SpeedEvilFind a suitably shaped Nd magnet, a glass capillary, make test tube end, insert magnet, seal other end.
user3209gold is a decent choice, so long as you can get a good, consistent coating
SpeedEvilanneal, and then remagnetise
password4user3209, he did a few attempts , first few flaked off
SpeedEvilOr make an actual macroscopic gold tube.
user3209this is Cody, right?
password4then he switched to a acid solution to clean the magnet before hand
user3209yeah, I'm familiar
user3209PTFE is bio-inert so long as you sterilize it before implantation
electrobotjaggz just linked to (Gizmodo Australia | the Gadget Guide | Technology and consumer electronics news and reviews)
user3209I suspect a gold plating would eventually wear down just mechanically, even if it doesn't react.
password4and then?
user3209and then the magnet will poison you
password4no it wont
password4you love talking out your ass
user3209that I do
password4the magnet is coated in nickel , which he does note he is not allergic to
password4the first magnet he tried was just plain neodymium
password4then some other attempt which lasted like 4 days
jaggzcody tells me he ended up finding he had a small piece still stuck in his finger
dTalmajor squick
jaggzhe told me personally, by way of a youtube video
user3209so in other words, neodymium is toxic and this magnet has a nickel coating in addition to the gold plating
FuchikomaHe should get an MRI just so see if they got it all
user3209how does that invalidate my hypothesis?
password4jaggz, which finger?
password4Fuchikoma, didhe not use his 1T magnet to test?
jaggzpassword4, the only one he has left?
user3209I haven't been able to find much on pure nickel implants, only about steel titanium alloys which contain small amounts of nickel occasionally causing problems.
user3209industrial exposure to nickel can cause Nickel toxicity
FuchikomaWhy is implanting mgnets a thing?
password4Fuchikoma, its like having a six sense
FuchikomaFuck that
password4being able to tell if a wire is live without touching it
user3209the question is how reactive pure nickel will be (this could be a situation like elemental mercury where it isn't readily metabolised)
DocScrutinizer05you don't want Ni in your body (unsealed) for sure
FuchikomaYeah I do't really believe it would be that sensitive
password4he even mentions hes been able to detect sub terranian cables by walking over the street
TheTrash"There's a heavy magnet in this device" "How can you tell?" "My hand is stuck"
FuchikomaBut the downsides would be annoying as fuck
user3209if a significant amount of the nickel disolves into your blood you will become very ill
Fuchikomait's hard enough cleaning metal swarf off of my clothes
TheTrashAirport security triggered _every_ _time_
tawri've wanted one of those for a long time
tawrit's usually a N52 magnet in silicone
user3209you can feel the shape of magnetic fields
tawror a glass capsule
tawri almost got one a couple of years ago
user3209it's a tactile sense of magnetism
tawrbut then i saw that everyone who has one has the softest, daintiest hands i've ever seen on a man before
FuchikomaSome people claim to be able to sense underground water with a pair of sticks, too.
tawrand one guy popped his capsule moving his kitchen table
tawrFuchikoma: uh, except this is science
Nach0zytf was I scrolled up so far
tawrso that's why i never got one
password4tawr, you want one too?
FuchikomaSo is dowsing depending on who you talk to
tawrbecause i'd pop it in like a day as delicate as they are
tawrFuchikoma: dont be dumb
user3209I tried supergluing a magnet to my finger, but it's not sensitive enough when you just have it on your skin externally
tawrobviously a magnet in your skin on the most sensitive part of your body will be able to feel forces acting on it.
bart416Nickel for implants was only used for alloying I thought?
tawrbecause it's a magnet. unless you want to deny magnetic attraction lol
tawrbart416: i think he's confused
DoYouKno1I made a small rap:
user3209a magnet inside your skin is more sensitive than a magnet on the surface of your skin
FuchikomaThe question is if those forces are going to be enough to feel things like cables under a roadway
tawrneo magnets do have nickle. and they are usually nickel coated
OdinYggdGoddamnit you guys
SpeedEvilFuchikoma: no
OdinYggd>Gluing magnets to the most sensitive part of your body
SpeedEvilFuchikoma: unless it is a very unusual cable
tawrbecause neo magnets are a ceramic
user3209the epidermis doesn't contain any of the touch receptors
FuchikomaSpeedEvil: Exactly my point
tawrOdinYggd: no, sliding it under your skin
SpeedEviltawr: no they're not.
OdinYggdWhy did I immeadiately think of some contraption to help couples that are having difficulty with reproduction
SpeedEviltawr: they're a metal alloy.
tawrSpeedEvil: wut
OdinYggdUsing the magnetism to guide the parts into alignment
tawrthey are a cermet
tawrwhat are you talking about!
tawrACTION pokes SpeedEvil
mitmfi can buy food with bit coin?
user3209AFAIK no-one has implanted a magnet in their dick, although now that I think about it, it wouldn't surprise me.
OdinYggdYes you can mitmf. I do not recommend it because you don't necessarially know where it came from or what quality it is
OdinYggdAnd if it arrives rotten, you cannot get a refund
SpeedEviltawr: If it's got less boron in it than carbon steel has carbon, I'm calling it a metal
user3209The reason he plated it in gold is to avoid exposure to the nickel
tawrthey are sintered ceramics with metal in it :P
kcrowgetting a magnetic dick pinched would suxor
user3209otherwise he wouldn't have bothered
tawruser3209: oh dude
bart416<user3209> AFAIK no-one has implanted a magnet in their dick, although now that I think about it, it wouldn't surprise me. <-- uhm people have...
tawri have some 1/4" gold plated n52 spheres
tawrgive me a minute, i have an idea
tawrif i'm not back in 10 minutes...
FuchikomaWe'll wait longer
tawrcall Nach0z and tell him to bring one of those magnetic pickup tools and some pliers
mitmfOdinYggd: i can get it from min?
mitmfbit coin min?
Nach0ztawr, when I said "vibrating magnetic piercings" my target audience was for women, really
SpeedEviltawr: My understanding is most magnets are sintered today, not bonded
password4ACTION search for vibrators
tawrSpeedEvil: probably. but i'm like 90% sure neo magnets are ceramic metals that are sintered, then nickel coated to prevent oxidation / chipping
SpeedEviltawr: NdFeB (which the boron is not dominant) particles are made, and then either hot-pressed in a polymer binder, or sintered. The sintered ones have ~0 other elements left.
SpeedEvilThey are not ceramic.
synx508That sinteresting.
mitmfi can get it from bit coin mine? OdinYggd ?
bart416synx508 wins this week's pun-award I think
SpeedEvil supports my view
electrobotFuchikoma just linked to How SuperMagnets are made - YouTube
SpeedEvil"his means that while bonded NdFeB magnets are in third place behind sintered NdFeB and hard ferrite magnets
FuchikomaLinked mostly because the amateur video production is facinating
OdinYggdmitmf, you cannot mine bitcoin. It is not possible anymore without specialist equipment.
OdinYggdThere are other cryptocurrencies that can be mined using high end GPUs though, and these coins exchanged for bitcoin
user3209could we put a coil of gold wire in the finger and power it up into an electromagnet with a subdermal circuit powered by induction charger
canhello, how can i get a sigmoid function on a mcu? i am using a tm4c123.
password4the other option is to fabricobbbleaglove with these and a few halleffect sensors :
user3209then you could turn your magnet sense on and off
user3209sudden idea, a coil would produce electricity (a tiny amount) when moving in a magnetic field. If the coil was close enough to a nerve then you would be able to feel magnetic flux. Unfortunately it would probably be interpreted as pain...
user3209so theoretically just a coil of gold wire in the right spot would be the entire implant.
jan64if your body interprets touching things as pain, you might have a problem
user3209electrical signals conducted directly into a nerve are not the same as touching things
user3209the coil probably wouldn't move enough to generate a sense of touch, but nerves are extremely sensitive
FuchikomaOr just use a handheld sensor
user3209it's just not the same *sigh*
user3209imagine you're looking at a spectrogram instead of listening to a sound
user3209I mean sure, you can tell a lot about the sound, but you can't feel it
password4Fuchikoma, thats what I'm thinking but something compact enough that you can slip over a finger
password4like these thing
user3209the prostate is very sensitive, maybe you should have it vibrate there when it detects a magnetic field, scaling with flux density. There's no need to keep the inside of the rectum sterile so the infection risk is reduced to almost nothing compared to subdermal implants
user3209 /s
^7heowhat are you talking about guys?
user3209subdermal magnetic implants for magnetic field sense
durrfaka how to make sure you never get an mri ever
user3209or more recently gloves/thimbles which try to convey a similar sense without home surgery
user3209using magnet sensors and vibration motors
user3209that's the context of my post
garylabronzwhat do the recieve numbers mean here? is that the number of bits it can receive?
garylabronzsame with transmit
bobo1on1I think they are pin numbers
user3209really? My pin is 3601
bobo1on1whats' your credit card number?
password4i dont like my country all that much anymore
user3209I'm too tired for intelligent conversation, but I can still shitpost for hours
user3209I should go to bed
password4i almsot get to go to bed
password4i cant even play mc anymore
corecodewhat do they use to route usb 2.0 from pin headers to case? is that some TP cable?
password4i guess?
garylabronzi think they are the pins :mindblown:
corecodei wonder where to get cables
nooodlesnodesHow safe it it to have a 30 breaker, breaker box 240v behind your head in your office?
tawrdid your card just beep?
nooodlesnodes12" away or less
tawryour card has a beeper for emergency, it's by the preforations
tawrlook just show me the card i'll show you where the beeper is
password4ACTION beebs tawr 
user3209perfectly safe
user3209I'm assuming it has a cover?
garylabronzsafe af
nooodlesnodessays online that its hazardous, emits too much
nooodlesnodesYes it has a cover, Im not talking shock
SpeedEvilPut some healing crystals on the breaker box.
DoYouKno1when is the next HAARP campaign going to start?
mitmfDoYouKno1: hello
DoYouKno1hi goIIum
mitmfDoYouKno1: you got item now?
DoYouKno1not yet, there are still a few more days for hackrf to arrive
DoYouKno1it says shipped
mitmfpm possible?
tomeaton17Who plays TIS-100 here
FuchikomaI have it but never got around to installing
tomeaton17Its really fun I would recommend it
sigtauidiot-grade question for you all, how exactly is the "grounded" LED indicator of modern surge protectors wired up?
sigtauis it just an LED, a high-value resistor, shunting mains to ground? because that seems dangerous
sigtauI don't have one here to open up and look at
kludgesigtau: it's a neon lamp usually, not an LED.
zigggggyhey kludge!!!!
zigggggywhat are your plans for the weekend!!!
kludgeneon lamp comes on at 55V or so, pulls nearly zero current.
kludgezigggggy: I am going to an audio show full of crazy stuff up in DC!
FuchikomaOn an actual surge protector or one of those "surge protecting" power strips?
sigtaukludge: I've seen it done with LEDs though, such as on those cyberpower surge suppressors
zigggggykludge but you were JUST at an audio show in nyc!
sigtaulike an actual surge suppressor with UL and CE stickers and all that
zigggggykludge are you taking the train?
Gallomimiasigtau: i've often wondered a great many things about such surge protectors. if you're interested, i propose we find out together. google and such
kludgezigggggy: that was a real audio show, this is mostly crazy crap. I am driving!
zigggggykludge how was it flying into nyc?
sigtauGallomimia: I actually have been looking around and I've found more info on why the LED is on/off vs. what makes it work
zigggggykludge did you have a direct flight?
sigtauwhich isn't particularly helpful but good to know
Gallomimiaoh that could be a problem for an electrician
kludgezigggggy: It was okay, it was pretty fast. Took less time than the train and we had a direct flight but had to drive an hour to richmond to get to it instead of walking down to the train station.
sigtauaside: I destroyed my bench supply becuase I'm an idiot and confused my scope probes for my supply probes when testing if my plug wiring was correct.
Gallomimiai run channels for info about that, but with no one in them, they don't get a lot of use
zigggggykludge which airport did you fly into?
sigtaumoral: buy an AC transformer, label your damn probes.
FuchikomaIn the case on the left, the light is just a neon lamp inside the switch and doesn't mean much
kludgezigggggy: Newark!
kludgesigtau: so, take it apart and see what failed. Not much in there you should not be able to fix.
Gallomimiaor how about don't make them anywhere close to the same size and shape
Gallomimiascopes are for testing and supplies are for supplying
sigtauyeah I specifically ordered different colored probes to prevent that from happening in the future
FuchikomaBut then they wouldn't stack nicely
zigggggykludge and you took a train from newark?
kludgepaint with nail polish.
Gallomimiathey should never be stacked!
zigggggykludge or rented a car?
FuchikomaStack all the things!
kludgezigggggy: Took a train, there is no way I will ever drive in NYC.
Gallomimiadon't put supply probes and scope probes anywhere close to each other
zigggggypoor kludgey
sigtaualso mine was a cheapie chinese $30 one that I had to check for isolation between mains and ground because of course I did
zigggggykludge i thought you drove when you went up to NE for some convention
Gallomimiatreat them like they're different phases of different voltages in a wiring conduit.
zigggggykludge how long is the flight from richmond to newark?
sigtauso honestly, depending on what blew up, it might just be better for me to buy a whole new one and salvage the encoders/7-segments/transformers/other typically expensive parts from inside
Gallomimiauh, where are you sigtau?
sigtaui'm in minnesota
Gallomimiaground and mains aren't isolated. they're bonded in your panel
kludgezigggggy: Less time than it took to drive to richmond. Less time than it took to get through security and wait for the flight.
sigtauoh, no, I meant on the device
zigggggykludge wow there was a long line for tsa?
sigtauI probed the live input to ensure there was only continuity to the neutral
sigtaunot t oground
zigggggykludge well at least flying is more relaxing.. you can read!
Gallomimiasure but if its connected, you'll find the bond between neutral and ground
sigtauin this case it was not plugged in
zigggggykludge and you can be in nyc in time for lunch!@
kludgezigggggy: there always is, in spite of the precheck. And I had to get a hand-inspect for film. But we did make it to the javits in time for the 10:30 panel, which is bad since I got pressed into being a panelist with no warning.
sigtauanother aside, building a power supply for a commodore 64, and it's really amusing how cheap it is to just buy transformer/regulator circuits in the form of brand-name wall warts and tear them down instead of just building one
zigggggykludge do they use a small plane for this flight? like a propjet?
sigtauit feels so hacky, but hey, $$
Gallomimiawell i guess if you blew up something worth 30 bucks, it becomes a decision between fixing it for practice or buying a new one and salvaging the old
kludgezigggggy: We got a CRJ, which is a pretty big airplane.
zigggggyit was full?
kludgesigtau: You'll notice those brand-name wall-warts don't regulate as well as buying nice transformers from triad or signal...
zigggggyits probably actually a pretty popular route kludge
kludgezigggggy: of course. Have you been on any flights that weren't full in the past decade?
kludgezigggggy: I hate airlines. I love flying but I hate airlines.
zigggggyits too far to drive and too far to take the train
zigggggydc to nyc is a little bit better for driving/bus/train
zigggggybut richmond is like 3 hours too far
sigtaukludge: they seem okay with the ideal dummy load (5W resistors, etc.) and this way I can at least put a fuse holder and protection circuitry on the 9VAC line which is most likely to fail in those things
kludgeI'd have taken the train if we had a couple extra days to spend. Which would have been nice because I would like to have hung out with people more.
sigtauyou're right, though, nothing beats knowing exactly what goes in there
zigggggykludge yeah airlines stink.. but i cant sit on a train for 14 hours
kludgesigtau: yeah, you could do worse.
zigggggykludge i rather fly and be there in time for lunch :)
kludgezigggggy: When they have the train to Paris I will be the first one on it.
sigtauand at least it's not chinesium-grade cheapness of transformer -> four crappy diodes that probably aren't correctly rated -> capacitor -> linear regulator of dubious origin
jsoftits 8 in the morning
zigggggykludge they have boats!
zigggggyyou can travel like old times!
jsoftit was like 10 pm just a few minutes ago
kludgesigtau: there are plenty of those too. The problem with the C64 is the two different windings.
zigggggykludge and hope you dont catch a deadly disease on the way
kludgezigggggy: Someday I will take the Matson cargo ship to Hawaii!
zigggggybut you're not cargo, kludge!
kludgezigggggy: I would live to ride on a container ship!
sigtaukludge: I wouldn't know because they potted the thing so damn tightly
kludgesigtau: I chipped one apart for my wife... it was interesting and the transformer was pretty undersized too.
zigggggykludge you registered for pre-check?
jsoftkludge, what do you think about wifes?
kludgezigggggy: Yes, it is definitely a good thing.
zigggggykludge what about mrs kludge?
kludgejsoft: I like her!
jsoftDo you reccomend one?
zigggggykludge how painful was it to do the pre-check? did you have to be interviewed?
sigtaukludge: what did you use to chip at it? I ended up just dumping mine in a low-grade circuitboard recycling receptacle around here
kludgezigggggy: She is not only on pre-check but on the international check thing. Her employers paid for it for everyone.
zigggggykludge did they take your fingerprints?
kludgezigggggy: I had to be interviewed but it was not much of an interview. They just made sure I was a real person pretty much.
kludgeAnd they took my fingerprints, yes.
bobo1on1breathing, check. pulse, check. actual person? probably :)
zigggggykludge now they have your fingerprints in a database!
SpeedEvilEasy way to fix that.
SpeedEvilCan't have no fingerprint matches if you don't have any fingers.
kludgejsoft: I had no intention of getting married.. and we were both pretty old at the time anyway.... but we started dating and then she lost her insurance after about six year so why not get married?
zigggggykludge i heard the international check thing has a more intense interview
zigggggykludge it says for precheck you need ID + birth certificate
zigggggyi dont have my birth certificate!
kludgezigggggy: Oh, the government has my fingerprints in lots of databases. And my wife's ex had a clearance to be alone with the president so he could work the white house screening room. So we have all been fingerprinted lots.
zigggggywell maybe i do.. ill have to check my file cabinet
kludgeI think I took my passport in instead of the birth certificate.
zigggggyACTION hugs piglit
cheaterkludge / anyone, can i take a 100W HID bulb and run it on a 150W electronic ballast? what about on a 75W electronic ballast?
jsoftkludge, I dunno. I am pretty weary of the time and bullshit that comes with women
kludgecheater: I don't know and I also don't know if you can run high frequency HMI bulbs on a regular HID ballast or vice-versa.
kludgejsoft: You can marry a guy then. It's legal now!
cheaterkludge: i don't know what a high freq HMI bulb is but the electronic ballasts i use state the freq.
jsoftkludge, lol
cheaterkludge: hey btw, i was gonna tell you, the HIDs i use (osram HCI) now go up to 400W!
kludgecheater: I am still looking for a 120V ballast for those powerball things.
cheaterkludge: you can use a philips one.
kludgecheater: which philips line?
zigggggykludge it seems that a birth certificate is required in addition to photo id
zigggggyeven if it is a passport
cheaterkludge: anything that'll work with their CDM line. Philips CDM is like Osram HCI, but the color spectrum is more jagged.
cheatereg i think this here should work
zigggggykludge oh nvm.. passport is enough
cheaterkludge: i found out recently philips makes a light that's 1000W and has a really really nice color spectrum. for architectural lighting. let me find it.
kludgeI only need 15,000 lumens, really. Any more than 30,000 would be problematic.
synx508all those lumens, or lupeople as we should probably call them
cheaterkludge: bear in mind, 15000 lm from a light that has a sparse spectrum is different to 15000 lm from a light with a rich spectrum like the above.
cheaterbut this one has 250000lm, that's probably too much
kludgecheater: The current marc-300 lamp is 15,000 lumens and the mirror assembly is probably a little lossier than a modern design too. I would be okay being a stop brighter than the marc-300 but not two stops brighter.
cheaterkludge: does arc size and stuff like that matter for you?
kludgeDepends. Existing arc is about 4mm.... different arc size and I'd have to change the mirror position or design.
_abc_Hi. kcrow how are your squirrels? Still enjoying your tasty cables in the attic? The winged squirrels down under are joining the war on mnwirekind
drazakkludge: did you catch that airplane landing video I linked you last week?
kludgedrazak: Yes! Don't send me these things when I am flying!
_abc_kludge: you have a cockatoo like bird, no? See link above :)
cheaterkludge: do you have a spectrum graph for the marc-300?
drazakkludge: haha that was an insane landing, I think the pilot handled it well though
_abc_You'll buy armored cables before too long.
drazakwould certainly be scary to be on the plane and be going all different ways
kludgecheater: I do not, but it's kind of ragged and has a spike in the green when it's new and a spike in the blue when it's run for 20 hours.
kludgecheater: it's not as good a spectrum as kurzbogenlamp.
cheaterkludge: ok so typical sparse sodium spectrum
cheaterwith few noble gases added?
_abc_A few? Xe should be enough. CO2 is enough by itself. S does it alone too.
cheaterkludge: ok well that is really annoying to look at at high lm. but a dense spectrum light isn't. you should try a lamp that's like 100k lm and see where that gets you - i'm sure the issues will be different than a sparse spectrum - and you might find that you can run the film much brighter without seeing flicker, or being uncomfortable to look at
kludgecheater: likely some rare earth stuff in there, but it's not super wonderful.
_abc_It's more a question of pressure control imo. Also you do not want too many things in the mix, probably. They start interacting.
cheater_abc_: no, the osram HCI lights use many many gases to achieve a really good spectrum
_abc_Can anyone but for a scientist with a spectrum analyzer tell the color is 0.03% different on THAT red?
kludge"short-arc indium halide"
_abc_comments from my link above lol "To cook a parrot, drop a rock and parrot into a pot of water. Boil until rock is soft, eat it and throw bird away."
_abc_Isn't In very easily fused? And vaporized at low temps?
cheaterkludge: think about it this way. you're not uncomfortable when outside during noon. that's 100k lux. that means one 100k lumen light bulb per square meter of ground.
cheaterkludge: if you had this light intensity from your marc 300 lamps, you'd be very uncomfortable though
cheaterif you could still see at all
kludgePerhaps but I'd also rather not pay for light I don't need too.
kludgeAnd the Philips don't seem to have readily available 120V ballasts either...
_abc_Wasn't microwave H mode excited S lamp going to be the lamp that replaces all lamps?
cheaterkludge: a 150W HID costs 6 euro per month to run.
cheaterkludge: i calculated that recently.
cheaterand electricity is expensive here.
tgeekyif anything beats LEDs from here on out, I'll eat my shoes
garylabronzdamn need would be about 0.0001 euro in the USA
kludge_abc_: they do use them for cine work occasionally!
_abc_cheater: depends in which country. Germany and Holland's electricity prices are 2x to 3x that of other EU countrie's
_abc_kludge: really?
_abc_kludge: cine work being shooting or projecting?
_abc_I saw $1000 or so for a 1kW? S lamp
tgeekyneither, they are used in Harvey Winstein's sex dungeon
garylabronzwhat power laser would i need to cut 4mm plywood? i want to build the dirties and cheapest laser cutter i ccan
_abc_Just lamp and psu. I wonder what hours rating they have.
_abc_Should be quite long since there are no electrodes and the lamp rotates all the time.
_abc_I.e. no hot spot formation
cheaterkludge: i just calculated it. a 1000W HID would cost 0.05 euro per hour to run at my electricity rates.
DocScrutinizer05((readily available 120V ballasts)) get a transformer
kludgeDocScrutinizer05: I'm trying to keep weight down although it's true the power isn't crazy high here.
cheaterkludge: ok that's 1. a terrible spectrum 2. it's likely just a few spikes, not the "full" envelope they display on the graph there. (not surprised, statistics methodology was pretty bad back then)
_abc_ fun about evil monkeys
cheaterDocScrutinizer05: it's more about buying than about adapting. he can't get 'em cheap enough.
_abc_I'd personally search for missing usb sticks inside Labradors nearby.
_abc_ lol zombies never really re-die. They just take naps between charges.
cheaterkludge: if you want i can send you a 230V ballast. a 150W one is ~34 euro, and it's small, so i can put it in an envelope. a bit bigger than a pack of cigarettes:
kludgecheater: yes. Spectrum varies dramatically with age too.
kludgecheater: Not yet but that might not be a bad plan if I don't find any 120V stuff.
cheaterkludge: well try the philips ones. but the osram ones are super cheap for what they provide.
python476I just took samples of the glue that helds parts of my abandonned vacuum cleaner
python476and put it under the iron solder at various temps
tgeekyhow did they taste
python476shit doesn't melt even at 350°C
kludgepython476: it's rtv then.
python476smells bad but nothing happens really
python476all other glues melt below ?
kludgemaybe not all of them but contact cement sure does.
kludgeand epoxy is brittle and easily identified by feel.
python476it looks like something Id call silicon glue
python476it's shiny and "creamy"
kludgertv = silicone goo.
tgeekythat's not glue buddy
kludgeAnd on THAT note, I am going to the hardware store to look at foam.
python476yeah, hence my comme.. ha ?
python476well silicon adherent binder -_
cheater_abc_: do you think metal halide lamps need to be matched to ballast or can ballast be stronger?
Gallomimiaas long as the ballast is the right type, and has enough power, it should be fine
JFK911cheater: match
JFK911all the lamps have a specified ballast it looks like
tgeekyif selastic/RTV takes 350C to melt, wouldn't thta mean it's not applied with a hot glue gun?
tgeekyor not a normal one, at least
_abc_cheater: matched. HIDs run on current not voltage.
Gallomimiayou don't think a hot glue gun could reach 350C?
tgeekyit seems like it might not, given the small rinky hot glue guns i use
tgeekynever measured it tho
SpeedEviltgeeky: it is not a polymer
_abc_Gallomimia: the hot glue is made of waxes and polyethylene which will eventually catch on fire. So no, that is not a good idea.
SpeedEviltgeeky: thermoplastic
SpeedEviltgeeky: It is applied as a gel, and sets to a polymer which does not melt
_abc_Typical 'good flow' hot gun glue temps are around 180-200 degC
tgeekySpeedEvil: ah, ok
tgeekySpeedEvil: is hot glue the same, or does it remelt easily?
_abc_It will melt solder if the thermostat is turned on high on the gun.
python476anyway, I guess I need to pry that glue off with a micro drill
Gallomimiai think i've seen glue guns with thermo knobs. could be used to apply that selastic whatever
tgeekypython476: always try isopropyl first
_abc_Gallomimia: yes but not 350 degC
tgeekypython476: sometimes for a lot of glues it just slides right off at the contact surface
Gallomimiawell i didn't examine the thing closely enough
python476tgeeky: Im worrid it would attack the plastic case
tgeekypython476: test that first in inconspicious area
SpeedEvilThere is also 'warm melt' glue, which works considerably cooler
python476I tried to pour a drop on a corner
python476oops no that was acetone
python476not IPA
python476gotta find a new area to play with
tgeekyacetone fucks up many kinds (but not all) plastics
cheater_abc_: gotcha
python476yeah Ive read that
python476couldn't find a marking on that case to check but anyway Ill give IPA a go
python476I learned in the process that you could make plastic binder out of ABS to join well ... ABS
python476I have a tail light to reassemble
_abc_python476: that also works with polystyrene but you can get ABS glue sticks for glue gun
_abc_python476: changed out fried leds? I have a friend who is into auto lights repair, it's absolutely horrible how they are designed inside. Made to fail (quickly).
JFK911ABS is best welded isnt it
python476I liked the idea of turning the old tail light broken plastic into it's own prosthesis :)
durrfi see a lot of broken tail light plastic and i keep trying to think of a use for it
durrfbut i need to stop collecting garbage
_abc_100s of contacs, useless 4 layer tiny boards holding a few leds and resistors, smd leds driven to the limit of orange glowing bonding wires. Mess.
python476_abc_: nope, driver (yours truly) hitting a post backwards
_abc_JFK911: ultrasonic welding ABS is one thing that is done
_abc_python476: okay
python476the lights survived, the plastic did not
tgeekypython476: THE BACK FELL OFF
JFK911I have a 'plastic welder' hot air nozzle that i've used on HDPE
kcrow_abc_: neighbors moved in with two dachshunds, they seem to discourage the local squirrel gang members but at least two of them are still tearing up the attic
electrobottgeeky just linked to Clarke and Dawe - The Front Fell Off - YouTube
tgeeky^ one of the best videos ever
python476its a 98 car, don't say LED too loud, you're gonna make it cry
_abc_python476: Some countrie's cops are especially wicked on people with cracked/reglued lights.
_abc_python476: I hope your area is not.
JFK911Yeah. My supplier has plastic weld material for ABS, PE, PVC, PC, PP and more
python476_abc_: cracked I can understand, reglued.. I won't use it unless the thing is beautiful
JFK911python476: what make car
_abc_kcrow: borrow a sausage dog, bribe with sausages in attic, keep him there for a day or two.
python476maker ?
JFK911is it a ford...
python476i'm in France, so far cops are pretty "sweet"
_abc_kcrow: sausage dogs are actually burrow hunting dogs. They will chase little pests
JFK911Ah probably you can get a copied taillamp from estonia or something
python476Renault Clio (the one with the ex dead ECU)
JFK911i bought parts like this from ebay before
python476we found a good used one in a landfill already
JFK911otherwise, i'd look in junkyards - taillamps aren't commonly broken
python476I'd love to have a car landfill/junkyard
python476so many parts
JFK911Yeah I will just visit other guys' junkyards
JFK911that way I dont have to be a caretaker for a junkyard
python476its just that I can't throw out something that just have a broken case
python476but then you have to pay
python476or at least negotiate
tgeeky"There's a minimum crew requirement." "Oh? What is it?" "Well, one I suppose."
JFK911$1 to go in, here
mykeylynxhello how do you test a breaker with a multi meter
JFK911Hours of amusement are worth a $1 to me
JFK911mykeylynx: can't test this with that
mykeylynxthank you
FuchikomaOh it's easy
JFK911a good test of a breaker will involve sparks
FuchikomaFirst, you set your multimeter to current mode
JFK911meter cannot make sparks
_abc_JFK911: here junkyard pilfering is considered a criminal offence
JFK911_abc_: i do not steal from them
_abc_JFK911: and you can't just buy stuff from it that you need either.
FuchikomaThen you put onelead on the breaker output, and the other on groudn
_abc_JFK911: the're really guarded and shit.
Fuchikomapresto! breaker tested!
JFK911_abc_: The places operate in various manners, from "bring your own tools" to "our white coat assholes will bring you the part"
python476JFK911: but the parts are $1 I suppose
FuchikomaAnd you better hope it works or you'll need an ambulance
JFK911python476: I think a taillamp is $10 or $15 at my local yard
_abc_JFK911: as I said, by law, that does not fly here.
python476JFK911: they sold it 25 here
JFK911_abc_: You pay at the exit, for what you take out
JFK911THey even warranty the parts
python476especially considering I broke it
python476that's nice
_abc_JFK911: tip: ROHS makes sure all electronics junk, cars, etc, are safe to export to Ghana where they can be safely re-melted over open fires.
JFK911Nach0z: Yea
JFK911_abc_: I think a good way to do that is to sell the electronics
_abc_python476: 25EUR?
JFK911Nach0z: Where an alternator fell on my forehead yesterday!
_abc_JFK911: Not allowed. Need to export them to Ghana 1st ;)
_abc_JFK911: were you disassambling something?
Nach0zJFK911: oh right I forgot that I asked how that happened and idk if you answered
python476yeah sorry EUR
Nach0zhow tf did you drop an entire alternator on your head
JFK911_abc_: thats nonsense, the only parts that are not allowed to be sold are catalysts
python476probably less if you have the negotiating mindset
_abc_JFK911: sigh. Tried to do your antics in EU lately?
JFK911Nach0z: Ford, alt removed from underneath. HAve to release engine mount and push engine forward
python476Im just starting on it
mykeylynxyikes lol thank you
JFK911_abc_: I ship leaded solder to EU, claiming exemptions by calling it lab equipment
HelleJFK911: leaded solder is perfectly legal
_abc_JFK911: heh. Just call it 'Eurocrat transportation/medical spares'
JFK911Helle: Manufacturing with it though.
Helleselling goods assembled with it is not
Helle_abc_: even medical is now non-exempt from what I've been told
kcrow_abc_: I have peanut buttered a tree and redeployed the antisquirrel vaseliner
JFK911I think the exemptions lapsed a couple years ago
_abc_Helle: it is exempted for life support afaik
Helleonly legal use is internal prototypes essentially
JFK911also "this was made in 2009" haha
Helle_abc_: no longer is
_abc_Helle: okay
Helle_abc_: expired in 2009 I belive
_abc_I stand corrected.
JFK911i thought it was 2014
HelleJFK911: may have been 2009 for general medical 2014 for life support
JFK911i didn't look very carefully, except i noticed that 'china rohs' is tougher
JFK911at any rate, nobody questioned me about lead
Hellebut yeah, you can just buy leaded solder in any store selling parts here
Helle_abc_: The Netherlands
Helleas said, lead solder is still legal, it's just selling goods made with it that is not
_abc_Helle: are modules and so on 'goods' in this sense?
Helle_abc_: yes
JFK911car electronics are supposed to be RoHS now
Helle_abc_: so your ICs, modules, etc need to be lead free, but you can put them together with leaded solder for your own internal use
_abc_JFK911: that could be fairly dangerous!
JFK911obviously some things cannot be RoHS
JFK911cadmium, lead cannot be replaced
HelleJFK911: which are explicitely exempt
_abc_Be is really not needed imo
JFK911Cadmium used to be used for corrosion protection plating, that is not allowed anymore.
JFK9111970s cars had everything underhood cad plated
_abc_Germanium era was the last time BeO was the only way to keep junctions from melting
Helleheck, you can even apply for an exemption for a previously unknown reason if you can show that any replacement is unreasonable (not even impossible, just very unreasonable)
JFK911Well electronics are pretty space age now. 70GHz radars and stuff
JFK911in cars
_abc_Helle: cue 5 years of paperwork?
hetiiHi L(
Helle_abc_: depends on how many you want to sell
_abc_JFK911: 70 GHz radar is really just a chip. It's nothing.
Hellethey actually make things easy
hetiiIs such connection of two psu is allowed when both will have diodes on their ends: ?
JFK911_abc_: Sure, sounds like MMIC stuff to me
electrobothetii just linked to
_abc_JFK911: also car radars are more like a TDR with no coax but open air. No big deal.
_abc_JFK911: not even MMIC
JFK911but i dont know if theres anything exotic/special about them
JFK911i know how radar works, i don't know how to deal with 70+GHz easily
_abc_There are chipsets. JFK911 70GHz was chosen because everything, including the quarter wave antennas, fits on cheap chips. 70GHz lambda/4 is ~1mm
Helle_abc_: like, a prototype exemption because you are unable to obtain some parts lead free can be achieved if you can also show how the life time of the device is managed
JFK911I have samples of single chip radars
JFK911there are other bands too
_abc_1mm is a nice round number to work with?
Helle_abc_: no inching itchy radar ?
JFK911First car with radar i knew about was 1995 or so
Hellebut nice mm-radar ?
JFK911Wasn't a single chip for sure.
_abc_Helle: don't know how they played that one :)
Helle_abc_: millimetric radar is an actual class of radars
Helleso uuuh
_abc_JFK911: you can do an easy proximity sensor type radar with 1970s era Gunn diode devices aka door openers.
JFK911we used those to trip up police radar
_abc_JFK911: one assumes they got smarter. That's all.
_abc_smarter means: less accessible to hobbyists, more money, more features.
_abc_You can use a 1970s Gunn diode door opener and mod it in 2017. These modern mm band radars will have been designed to operate on one kind of car, locked to canbus keys, encrypted, hashed, and self destructing in 2-3 years.
_abc_Useless crap imo.
_abc_ fundamentals of mm wave
python476many companies put out nice documents online
python476woops .. emacs bug
_abc_You're using irc from emacs? :)
_abc_ACTION gives python476 the nerd award for today
python476_abc_: yes, erc-mode
python476ACTION is pr...oud
python476emacs is the most advanced
Hecateoh please don't start THAT garbage
python476to get kicked out of channels after copy pasting 392 lines of source code
python476Hecate: patience, wait for the joke to finish
Hecateleave it out
python476(vim user spotted)
_abc_I think that the doc on mm wave radar I linked above covers 99% of what one needs to know about car mm wave radars
HecateWow. You twonks just don't know when to stfu
Hecate(not you _abc_) the bible thumper there
_abc_Oi Hecate live up to your nick and stop the noise :)
HecateLive up to my nick?
HecateMake sense.
_abc_ACTION points Hecate to wikipedia etc
HecateIt's a proper name of a ship.
HecateWow. WAY too much skiddy ignorance here
_abc_ yeah, ship. I immediately didn't think of that.
_abc_ specifically the modern interpretation
spludhey baldie
_abc_splud: Who are you talking to?
_abc_ACTION thinks boldengineer sounds much better
baldengineerit was taken and italicsengineer is too long to type
spludwhat about superscriptengineer?
zigggggyACTION plants chia seeds on baldengineer's head
MetalsuttonI have having trouble sourcing WS2812 led's. Is there a good supplier who had plenty of these?
splud_had_ ? What good does that do you?
_abc_One hopes quality will be good (with good reason), and, also, price will be more like .cn and less like .se?
phinxyWhat kind of IC would you want on a RGB LED?
kmc3 channel constant current PWM drive
kmcwith shift registers
_abc_Or linear current drive, since it makes no sense to use pwm for 20mA leds
Sculptorphinxy, wat
Sculptor_abc_, it depends on number of RGB leds
Sculptor_abc_, also, there are readily available ICs with all the goods inside
Sculptorphinxy, get a WS2811 chip and hook up your RGB led to it
DocScrutinizer05now that's one slogan:
Sculptorphinxy, here
Sculptorphinxy, also, you can get LEDs with built in chip inside
Sculptorphinxy, here
_abc_off topic but quite nice
_abc_It is a nice watch, but, imo, way overpriced for such an auction?
Sculptorwatches ...
MetalsuttonIs there any reason why 1mm pitch pin headers only come in gold plated?
MetalsuttonI cant seem to find any cheap ones
SculptorMetalsutton, link one product
phinxy_abc_: why wouldnt you PWM a 20mA LED? Would a linear regulator do the job just fine?
electrobotMetalsutton just linked to (10Pcs Per Lot Gold Plated 1mm 1.0mm Pitch 50 Pin Male Single Row Straight Pin Header Strip-in Connectors from Home Improvement on | Alibaba Group)
phinxyWhat do you need 500 headers for
Sculptor_abc_, this guy, from other network, bragged about his 'smallest watch in the world'
electrobotSculptor just linked to (Shared album - Chris Anderson - Google Photos)
_abc_phinxy: because extra dissipation is negligible and pwm causes rfi and extra parts needed to control it
_abc_phinxy: so yes many 20mA class led's are not pwm's
MetalsuttonI basicly am creating a bunch of 50x50mm small boards, and wanting the smallest connector possible. Pictured is a 2.54 pitch header.
SculptorMetalsutton, here
DocScrutinizer05_abc_: well, that part about "extra parts needed" is works both directions, depending on usecase
DocScrutinizer05generally speaking, linear tends to need more parts unless you want to control the whole thing by analog voltage
_abc_But mostly it's overkill. Infineon (nee Siemens iirc) makes a LOT of 2 terminal diode like devices whose purpose is to give constant current to led strings. There are lost of them used in automotive led lights and the like. No RFI emission.
MetalsuttonOh cheers! I dont know why i had so much trouble finding one
_abc_DocScrutinizer05: one part, 2 terminals.
_abc_SMA or SMB usually, up to SMD size
DocScrutinizer05err what?
SculptorMetalsutton, 50 for $16.5
DocScrutinizer05how would I reasonably control a RGB LED with a 2pin component?
_abc_ DocScrutinizer05
_abc_DocScrutinizer05: there'd be one each linear controller for each R,G,B channel
SculptorMetalsutton, use this tool:
DocScrutinizer05_abc_: that's a glorified series resistor, no control
MetalsuttonSculptor. Thats not 50pcs, that a 1x50 pin header which is gold plated. I think
Metalsuttonoh no, ur right. 50pieces
_abc_The series resistor can't cope with -50 to +120 degC environment and 7.5 to 16Vdc supply variations
Sculptor50pcs/lot 1.0mm Pin Header,Male header,Single Plastic,1*50P
Sculptorselect 1x50p single row
DocScrutinizer05_abc_: still pointless with a RGB LED
Sculptor50pcs is 50pcs
_abc_ typical thing you'd find
_abc_DocScrutinizer05: right, whatever you say
DocScrutinizer05control != constant current
SculptorMetalsutton, + you get gold plated ones
DocScrutinizer05for a 20mA monocolor LED that shall shine fixed brightness, you don't need linear nor PWM cruft
_abc_right, you're on your own here
Sculptorusing a constant current source to power a led in 2017. priceless
DocScrutinizer05seems our definitions of "control" differ
DocScrutinizer05I'd not expect to see a RGB LED used in fixed brightness applications. I for one would choose a mono LED with the right color instead
MetalsuttonAnd would , <- those plug into the pin header you reckon?
electrobotMetalsutton just linked to (NEW 100PCS/LOT Micro JST SH 1.0mm Pitch 4Pin Female Connector with Wire 100mm-in Computer Cables & Connectors from Computer & Office on | Alibaba Group)
Metalsuttonnot sure about that white thing on the side
iceeif you've got a microcontroller and aren't going to do a bazillion units
iceesomething like a ws2812 is pretty tempting.
iceelots of brightness, RGB, comparable cost at low volumes to placing your ideal LED + transistor + resistor
iceeand you can always change your mind on the color later or do fancier things
DocScrutinizer05full turn completed ;-) [2017-11-03 Fri 21:28:13] <Metalsutton> I have having trouble sourcing WS2812 led's. [2017-11-03 Fri 21:35:26] <phinxy> What kind of IC would you want on a RGB LED?
_abc_ neat simple circuit, nice source location (will work :)
icee;) there's lots of 2812-alikes
iceeeg SK6812
iceesome that are RGBW too
MetalsuttonI just went with ali express in the end
durrfiirc the 2813? is rgbw
durrfi really like playing with addressable leds
iceeI like sk6812 because they're cute, but worldsemi now has cute ones too
durrfi only have like 1m of 2812s left, but i have like 100some individual pcbs that have 6 solder points per pcb
iceei put down 2812 on a recent project instead of two bright LEDs or 1 bicolor LED
ThePendulumdurrf: I don't think so, just a 4th clock pin
ThePendulumoh wait
ThePendulumthey do have an RGBW variant, my bad
durrfwell it has 2xvoltage and 2xground pins
durrfplus 1x data in and 1x data out
ThePendulumthe WS2813 from China are all RGB by the looks of it
ThePendulumdurrf: there should be a clock pin there somewhere
ThePendulumhuh, can't see it in the schematic either, hold on
ThePendulumoh I see, that's their backup data line, not clock, my bad
_abc_icee is WS2812 / 13 easily obtainable where you are?
ThePendulumI always get that kind of stuff from china
ThePendulumdad got me a strip of WS2812Bs for 90 euros locally for my birthday, can get it for 20usd online
_abc_"some markup may apply"...
_abc_nuff said. Yes I see that here locally too, but there are a few local shops which are not anal about markup. I use them...
ThePendulum_abc_: you'd hope you actually get better quality control, but unlike any of the strips I got directly from China (apart from me blowing them up), 2 of the chips on those broke...
ThePendulumso I guess the only reason to get them is 'to support the local economy', for what it's worth
_abc_10-30% markup is okay. The state charges 20% vat on top...
_abc_See it in context.
_abc_You don't get better qc you get return/replacement rights, local
_abc_Meaning, your project will work at most 24hrs after you discover a bad part bought locally.
ThePendulumthat'd put them at 32usd or 28eu :P
ThePendulumthey were 3 times that, it's insane
corecodei think 200% markup is fine too
ThePendulumtrue, I do suppose you can return it more easily
_abc_I don't know what strips cost here except I bought 1m of crap white led strip, 12V, weatherproof siliconed, for 2EUR.
ThePendulumbut on the other hand, I think I'd rather buy 4 strips and a handful of replacements at that rate...
_abc_And that was in the shady 'semi Chinaware' market next to a mall.
_abc_As expected, the strip is great at turning 12Vdc into heat, and wimpy at light output, but, hey.
ThePendulumone of the strips I got was fantastically bright and vivid, magnificently white and awe inspiring
ThePendulumtoo bad it only lasted half a second
Goatmanhi! what are the functions of c4 c6 c8 and c10 in the simple diagram?
Goatmanwhat is their purpose?
ThePendulumthey pass butter
GoatmanI need to know what they do
ThePendulumACTION leaves in apology
Goatmancan they be bypassed?
Goatmanare they lowpass elements?
GoatmanWhat do they do?
GoatmanThey look like lowpass elements
iceeGoatman: what exactly is this? is this an effort at drawing an equivalent-circuit for something?
iceethis whole thing is a high-order bandpass filter
Goatmanwhat do dipoles 4, 6, and 8 do?
Goatmanare they lowpass elements?
iceewell, they provide high frequency attenuation, sure
iceeas do all the L's along the way
Goatmanok. nice. and 2 and 10? are they impedance matching elements?
iceethey have a big effect on impedance, but they also are providing high frequency attenuation
iceeah, the image name is bpf. ;)
iceeone of the easiest ways to back-of-the-envelope analyze this is to treat each of the pairs of capacitors as a capacitive divider
_abc_Goatman: that is a bandpass filter
_abc_Goatman: usually called a Cohn filter.
_abc_Goatman: the series LCs can be approximated by quartz xtals
_abc_In reality many such filters are built out of xtals.
iceeheh a typical quartz crystal will be a heck of a lot sharper than an LC pair
_abc_The caps you ask about (to ground) are coupling capacitors.
Goatman_abc_, what do they do?
_abc_They 'couple'. Each one is part of the left and right LC circuit connected to it
Goatmanwhat does that mean? What is the purpose of ‘‘couple’’?
_abc_it is designed to couple (connect) a controlled small amout of the energy in each such LC circuit from input to output
_abc_couple = connect
Goatmanfor what purpose?
kmcto let the signal flow
_abc_To control bandwidth and bandpass shape
kmcthere are issues that can happen if you just connect them directly ("DC coupling")
iceethere are so many ways to answer that function
iceedepending on how high level of the answer you are seeking
GoatmanThe practical purpose is do define the filter envelope?
Goatmanamong other things?
_abc_ Goatman see page 4
_abc_each xtal is =~ to a series LC circuit
iceeGoatman: sure, all of the selected components have an effect on input impedance, output impedance, center frequency, and frequency response
icee_abc_: except with practically impossible L / C values :P
iceeelse i'm pretty sure we'd rather use inductors and caps.
_abc_That particular kind of filter can be a Cohn or Chebysheff filter depending on how the exact values are tuned
_abc_ Goatman more practical stuff
Goatman_abc_, then without ‘‘coupling‘‘ the filter would not function at all
Goatmanthere would be no signal path
_abc_Goatman: it would act strange
_abc_There would be signal path but it would not do what it is meant to
Goatmanwith insanely high insertion loss
_abc_Actually that could be lower than expected but maybe
_abc_ Goatman note Cp is VERY small usually wrt Sc
_abc_(page 66 in case you land elsewhere)
Goatmanit looks like they couple the signal from the one LC network to the next
python476any one knows what kind of motor jehu garcia put into his samba EV conversion ?
_abc_Yes. They are part of both and the ratio between them and the C in the actual LC establishes the amount of energy coupled to the next one
_abc_@ Goatman
_abc_Goatman: research Cohn filter theory and it will come to you
_abc_ Goatman here's a simplified version which discusses the coupling caps in some depth
_abc_ $omg. A guy aged 43 building a retirement transceiver? He must be more depressed than most of us? I am waypast 43...
_abc_Goatman: the short version: xtal filter claculation is gory math. Or spreadsheets.
_abc_Unless you are an EE / studying EE, stick to the spreadsheet.
_abc_Chebysheff was an ace mathematician, it's probably insane to want to understand all he did :)
_abc_Just believe it, get the right spreadsheet, work with it.
_abc_Good luck.
Goatmanthank you for your insight
MetalsuttonIf i am trying to do a calculation on figuring out a resistor value
MetalsuttonI am using an online LED calc.
kmcor teach yourself complex analysis because it's fucking cool as shit
kmcMetalsutton: current limit resistor? sure, go on
ThePendulumdamn, made an ali order the 23rd and it still hasn't even been picked up yet
kmcit's worth knowing how to do that math yourself
MetalsuttonDo i add all forward voltages and forward current together of each led i want to use?
kmcMetalsutton: LEDs in series or parallel?
kmcthen you add voltages, but they'll all have the same current
kmc(and if you'd said "parallel" I would make sure you know that you need one resistor per LED and not one total)
kmcbut one resistor is fine for series
Metalsuttonyup rgb leds
Metalsuttonso 60mA per series, and so i go max values right? so 2.2v + 2.2v + 2.2v / current = series resistor value?
Metalsuttonwell. 20mA per series, but 60mA per LED seres
kmcall LEDs will have the same current, so you need to pick a value that's in-spec for all of them
kmcanyway when you do ohm's law you're looking at the REMAINING voltage, because that's what'll drop over your resistor
kmcpower supply voltage minus sum of series LED forward voltages
Metalsuttonah. i see
Metalsuttonthats what will drop onto the resistor no matter what loction it is in the series?
Metalsuttonsorry i havnt done this for many many years.
kmcyou can put it anywhere in the chain, i think
kmcputting it in the middle might be considered weird, but if it makes your design better then go for it :)
kmcbtw... you can test some of this stuff on
vegiiI just reached the ATX PSU box to put some crap to use and I wonder why I still have some crap ATX PSU with a "2002/05" warranty sticker
kmcfilm yourself exploding it, put it on youtube
kmcMetalsutton: it's much nicer, especially with high power LEDs, to use an active constant-current drive circuit
vegiikmc: I was about to use it for a 3dprinter, but it sounds like a safer option
kmcthis will deal with changes in the power supply voltage, as well as variation and thermal changes in the LED voltage, and are more efficient than burning off voltage in a resistor, and many of them can be obtained with other nice features like dimming
MetalsuttonI shouldnt use to resulted resistor values right? I should always go a little higher?
Sculptorhas anyone actually used SK6812RGBW leds
darsieMetalsutton: If you have RGB LEDs, like three in a device, they might share the cathode or anode so you can't put them in series.
darsieMetalsutton: How many pins do your LEDs have?
darsieor do you have a single LED for each color?
MetalsuttonThey are 5050 rgb leds
darsieOk, then it seems you can put them in series.
Metalsuttonyup :)
darsieIf you don't want to run more than spec current through them you need the right or higher resistor.
darsieBut this will light all 3 colors at the same time which will look white from a distance. That's a waste of RGB LEDs. You could whites instead.
drac_boyso do any of you know if its easy to determine if an overvoltage did a voltage regulator in or not so much? (its for low voltage dc anyhow)
darsiedoes that mean destroyed?
OdinYggdPut it on a breadboard with a resistor as a load, connect power.
OdinYggdIf the output is within spec it isn't dead
OdinYggdIf it isn't, it only cooks a resistor
restorergot my Orange Pis
restorerhad to go out for another microSD card
DocScrutinizer05Metalsutton: please share lonk to datasheet (or type number) of the LED
kmcR, G, B on full blast together also produces a very unappealing shade of white compared to a proper white LED with a broad spectrum phosphor
kmceven if you try to calibrate it
kmcthis is why you can buy WS2812 style LEDs with 4channels: RGBW
kmcadafruit sells them with three different white color temp options
kmchaving bought some of these, they are very worth it if you need colors + white
DocScrutinizer05I think cool white + R makes a better warm white than - warm white and blue makes cool/dayight?
DocScrutinizer05never tested it
restorerrelated: how do some LED-backed LCD displays produce a smoother spectrum than others, if it's all RGB pixels?
restoreror - is it actually just somehow LED vs CCFL?
DocScrutinizer05restorer: if I understand your question, it's about filters in LCD have wuder bandwidth than a monochrome LED
Metalsuttonspeaking of the rgb spectrum. With my current prototype, i notice that on a cycle, the red does not stay on for long
MetalsuttonI think i might have to modify the sketch to slow down that section
restorerI had a Dell display I bought in 2004/5 that had a nice wide spectrum, and a cheapo 28" that had a very discrete spectrum
restorerthis new laptop has a fairly good spectrum, with a few missing bars
restorer(looking through a cheap optical spectroscope at a white part of the screen)
DocScrutinizer05Metalsutton: you're aware LEDs for R, G, B/W usually have massively differing Vfwd?
restorerthe cheap screen hurt my eyes after too long
restorerI used Apple displays at a workplace that were awesome, and very nicely full-spectrum
Metalsuttoni notice that the red is diffrent than the others yes.
restorerand I guess spectrum doesn't always correspond to CRI? because I just took a look at a terrible ghostly-blue headlamp I have, and it's a fine spectrum
MetalsuttonI have 3 mosfets going through an arduino.
Metalsuttonto power it all.
DocScrutinizer05Metalsutton: yeah, G is in between, sometimes more like B, sometimes more like R
restorer^ I assume that's whether it's Gallium Arsenide or Gallium Nitride?
DocScrutinizer05yep, somesuch
MetalsuttonSo would that be something i have to fix through code or is there something i can do with the hardware
kmcok so I'm trying to extend the range of a LTE client device. it's 2 way MIMO. I got two dipole antennas of the kind you might use on your car, and plan to connect one to each antenna port on the device
kmcbut I'm not actually attching this to my car
kmcso I'm wondering: should I put a ground plane between them, and should I connect it to the grounded shield of the coax?
kmcer, below them, not between
kmcand is there an ideal separation for the two MIMO antennas
kmcand should I put them oriented the same way or what
DocScrutinizer05yes (plane), and yes (attach). Ideal separation is within wavelength range, or closer, I guess. Pulling the latter outa my rear
DocScrutinizer05(orientation) aren't they omnidirectional anyway?
kmcokay. so around 30 cm, or maybe 1/2 or 1/4 of that?
kmc30cm is fairly convenient
kmcI'm gonna screw these to a piece of wood with some sheet metal over it
kmcand yeah, I think they're supposed to be omni
kmchowever I didn't kno,w if MIMO works better with some different orientations
DocScrutinizer05you could mount them 90° offset, to handle H and V polarization
DocScrutinizer05I gather they are stationary, so just try what yields best results. It's not a science, rather an art
kmcthanks :)
DocScrutinizer05(1/2, 1/4?) I'd bet a few cents on 5/8 or something. No 2s exponents
nooodlesnodeshey Im using a new client and it only goes back to 2:18 pm (-6 GMT) I can anyone post the responses to me about my breaker box
ketasDocScrutinizer05: rf is art now