restorerACTION checks his project list
drac_boyjust asking but any of you in here deal with data-overlaid ac power lines of any sort?
CasperMy boss did, and it need to be on the same phase for it to work proprelly
drac_boycasper heh well might be a bit too unrelated but do you know if if you had two circuits that you wanted to feed through a single connector would you have 2+2 individually braided [two small insulations inside one larger insulation] cable or rather a single 4-braided cable?
Casperdrac_boy: not following you
drac_boyhm I tried...might be better to leave it for another time when I'm not tired from a long snowy day :-s
drac_boyty anyhow
Casperoh snow
Casperwe got snow today...
Caspertwice as much as planned is not fun
restorerit's been 80+ degrees here for the last 2 weeks...
drac_boycasper its been crazy .. basically all sidewalks snowed in and just about anything even highways are a thin but noticeable layer of slush ..theres absolutely nothing 'dry' anywhere :->
Casperoh slush is fun
Casperhere it's ice with 20cm of snow
drac_boyoh and casper its too funny laughing at the stupid non-quebec license plates .. guess why? because too often they are not even running on winter tires so cue watching these slide all over the place (even the one that was only going 30kph still did a few feet of locked tires almost into the rear of a winter-equipped rav4 that stopped nearly on a dim
drac_boygoing see how many dinted cars are around tomorrow morning :)
geniiWill acetone dissolve the silver plastic lining that lithium ion batteries come in ? I got some bloated ones held together with some doublesided tape and just want to dissolve the tape but haven't tried to get them apart with acetone before, was contemplating trying it
Casperdrac_boy: I wasn't on the road enought for that
Casperon the 116 I was basically alone somehow
Casperthere was one bad driver in front of me that couln't decide where to drive between the middle, left or in between...
spludlead, follow, or get the fsck outta my way!
spludWow, CREE 1200V 9A schottky rectifier diodes - US$5 apiece at q100
drac_boycasper heh :)
Bird|otherboxsplud, yah. SiC Schottkies are *awesome* beasts
drac_boycasper anyway well going try one more time then forget about it...so if you had data1+, data1-, data2+,data2- wires (data-overlaid ac) would you braid all four under one insulation tube or braid both pairs separately before tucking the two separate tubes into one larger tube?
Casperbraid each pair, can be in the same tube
Casperif the crosstalk is acceptable
Casperalso, different number of turn per pair
drac_boyhmm noted..will look more into that tomorrow thanks :)
flybackBird|otherbox, not entirely schottky's have low reverse voltage and higher leakae
flybackpotherwise ok
flybackotherwise rock
flybackACTION sprays Casper with a hose
spludflyback is 1200V low reverse voltage?
flybackisns't that the forward voltage
spludrepetative reverse voltate 1200V. Surge Peak 1300V
spludContinuous forward current 9A
spludRepetitive Peak Forward Surge Current 26A, non-repetitive 42A
flybackthis is just a normal diode ?
spludVf 1.5V typ
flybackI mean schottky
spludThis is a high voltage high power schottky rectifier.
flybackI stand corrected
spludThat Vf BTW is at 5A
flyback1.5v off 1200 ain't bad at all
spludThis was the US$5 at q100 part I mentioned a little ways back.
flyback$5 ain't bad either
spludI'm not out buying them, I have half a dozen of the things.
flybackI mighT MAKE some of my own bridge recs using schoktty to get ultra low drop
flybackfor small scale wind turbines or try making them using mosfets
spludSo, fried a uC from an overvoltage event because my linear couldn't handle the Vin I gave it. then fried the SMD power mosfet because it was the wrong type in my bin (!).
phinxymatland• I fixed both of them, reading 0.25-0.3 each. Feels like refund or partial refund is in place.. I mean 4 - 1K ohm on a test probe is ridiculous. I jammed copper shavings in to the spring at the back and some in to the 3mm hole where the spiral thing is. Where did you chose to have it?
flybackbut not going to get very fancy because I want to make this work with almost anything someone in a war zone could pull out of the trash
spludAlso blew out an LED. So added a 12V "pre" regulator before the 3V3 (and out of necessity, relocating the Vsupply). Replaced and reflashed uC - new uC happy. Replaced LED. Replaced the fet with the same type I had INTENDED to use (as per my breadboarded prototype),
flybackmake a crowbar circuit
spludI like to use schottky for DC stuff like small solar cells. Sucks balls to have a low voltage coming into a project and then lose a substantial amount of that to a diode keeping your circuit from discharging back into the solar.
spludflyback - you addressing me with the crowbar?
spludI want the original Vsupply - it's what is running through the hot wire.
spludthe uC is switching the NFET to modulate the ground.
spludI still need to add a momentary button (with debounce circuit), and the code to trigger from that and "ramp up" the output to the setpoint defined by the dial pot.
flybackhigh power semis fascinate me
spludThe 12V regulator I put in front of the 3V3 reg allows for up to a 35V supply.
flybackthey changed a lot of shit
flybackgto and igbt trans etc
splud800V 17A type power mosfets?
spludThe FET I'm using in this project is just 60V, but is rated for 50A and 100W of dissipation (just 0.029 ohm Rds(on), and I'm modulating with a square wave)
kmcwhy hardware debounce?
spludeasy to do, and no-brainer on the software side. uC has 1K of flash and 64 bytes of RAM>
kmcah wow
kmctiny MCU
spludThough even with current code implementation, it's just 120 bytes of code.
spludQuite capable. Yes, I could use an 85 (and have in other projects), but I got a length of these and like using them.
kmcyeah, i've used them
spludSo, I need to get the pushbutton so I can move forward with laser cutting the control board for this.
spludInitial plan is for removing insulation from wires (zero nick), but it could just as easily be used as a foam cutter driver.
flybackigbt ar ebetter for high power than mosfets
flybackmosfets are better 200v and lower
spludokay, I have 800V mosfets. Don't _need_ 800V mosfets, but I have 'em.
flybackmake a nice heater controller
kmcsplud: do you have a gate drive transistor as well?
spludI have gate drivers yes.
flybackACTION sprays Casper again
spludSi 8235BD, I have a crapton of them
spludDual channel, 5KV digital isolation
LewsThanThreeViper-7, sorry, keep messing with this. Cleanup of non-circuit stuff: https://i.imgur.com/GFEYPmZ.png
LewsThanThreeAre those grounds right?
r0n0xi have a bunch of big fat heavy duty solid state relays, are they good for anything?
Viper-7LewsThanThree: yup :) ADDR on the ADS1115 needs to be grounded, but yup
r0n0xif SSRs dont need a specific polarity on what they switch then i think they were for switching mains at some point
Viper-7oh hmm, the voltage dividers dont look right tho
LewsThanThreeViper-7, derp. Knew I forgot something!
LewsThanThreeYea, I'
LewsThanThreem looking at that too.
r0n0xanyway, point is they are really really big SSRs
Viper-7the 100k should be on the ADS1115's side of the 470k
LewsThanThreeI think I can't combine the inputs
LewsThanThreeAhh, that makes sense.
r0n0xdo they have additional uses a normal relay of that spec couldnt do?
LewsThanThreeSo it's 1/3 voltage instead of 2/3
Viper-7more like 1/6, but yeah
spludr0n0x - switching 'x' amount of current without contact arcing.
LewsThanThreeEr, yea.
Viper-7R2 / (R1 + R2)
LewsThanThreeYea, forgot.
r0n0xso, more suited to say, controlling a heating element at like 0.5Hz
r0n0xon/off once per 2 seconds it most
r0n0xat most*
r0n0xcan solid state relays be ¨fried¨? like how a transistor or fet would, not from heat or thermal stress but, from semiconductor breaking down due to over voltage or something
ace4016though, current/electron flow is likely what has caused the damage :P
spludsurge current, etc.
spludalso possibly overvoltage.
trashpandakevtris always talking about his "slippery dipper long-mover"
r0n0xbasically just any kind besides burning/melting
r0n0xare SSRs resistant to static and such?
r0n0xi dont know how they work
kmcI think it's usually an optoisolator + a MOSFET or a triac
spludopto + triac
r0n0xso its basically just a big isolated switching package
spludif AC only
spludif DC, then Mosfet or IGBT
r0n0xif its a triac it can still be used properly on DC at same spec right?
r0n0xoh wait, if its like that then it could be switched pretty hard then if need be
spludtriac is a form of scr. Doesn't switch off just because the gate signal goes away. Continues conducting as long as there is current flow. AC alternates, so has zero crossings at which point an SCR/Triac will switch off.
r0n0xthat is unfortunate then
kmcon AC it's less stressful on the circuit to switch at zero crossings
spludI have a cap bank for spot welding (well, right now, stuff like fusing small wires - including thermocouples). That's DC, but I use an SCR to dump. It'll switch off when the current stops flowing.
kmcon DC, won't work
kmcwell it's not really DC if the voltage drops over time ;)
r0n0xah well
spludWell, the "fire" switch just tickles the gate, so I don't have a ton of power flowing through the contacts of the switch, which was important.
r0n0xactually now that i think about it, i think they were 200vDC SSRs
spludIt is DC - it's not like the voltage cycles up and down.
spludIn my circuit, there's a toggle switch: CHARGE-OFF-DISCHARGE, so flipping that will also cut current from the SCR.
r0n0xso, are there SCRs which can switch DC by like reversing the input or something?
r0n0xactually nm
r0n0xif i wanted to boost voltage to allow greater current through a heating element, what would be the best way to go about doing that?
r0n0xthis is for a 3d printers heat bed
r0n0xrunning directly off the PSU its a tad bit slow.
spludboosting voltage requires pulling more current.
wondiwsif you use a voltage regulator, like the 7805, do you need the capacitators around it?
r0n0xcurrents not an issue
r0n0xthe PSU is way OP for the printers needs
r0n0xi thought that would mean the bed could draw more, since less other drops due other printer functions
r0n0xthough the bed is initially heated before a print so, moot point there
r0n0xwhat im getting at is should i build my own circuit or buy one, since its for a heater, and im only looking for a slight boost
spludwondiws - you can get by without the caps, if that's your question. They're intended to provide clean regulation.
spludHow is the printer controller modulating the heat for the bed?
r0n0xcrudely on/off, relays could do the job
spludIf low side switching, you can probably go with a higher voltage PSU for the header. If high side, you have problems/
Bird|otherboxwondiws, the caps are recommended for a conventional regulator, like a 7805
r0n0xthe PSU is already at 13v, i dont want to raise it any further
spludThough yes, could switch the control for an external nfet.
Bird|otherboxif you're using a low-dropout type regulator, like a LM1117 family part, the caps, and the output cap in particular, are REQUIRED, and need to follow the datasheet specs
spludIf the PSU is switching the GROUND side of the heater, you could provide the header with a higher voltage from a separate PSU.
wondiwsdo devices that get power from the USB 5V line, do they normally use a regulator, or is the USB 5V line considered stable enough?
r0n0xwhat i was hoping for was simply running the fet output into a crude boost converter
spludTake for example the hot wire I have here in front of me. 16V supply, but the uC is running off of regulated 3V3. It's switching the gate of an NFET which allows the current to flow from a 16V source through a kanthal wire through the fet junction to ground.
spludThere is nothing to be "boosted" from the controllers perspective.
CircadianRebelwondiws, USB specifies min and max voltage as well as a minimum supported current. as long as the device is happy within those restrictions the power should be considered well regulated
r0n0xi know how that goes, but this is moreso an issue of being forced to buy a reliable boost converter if im switching that voltage through the fets
r0n0xon the other hand if the 12v through the fets feeds a boost controller instead of the heater directly....
r0n0xis that practical/doable?
r0n0xwith a DIY circuit
kmcr0n0x: there are some thyristors that can be switched off
Bird|otherboxwondiws, usually, they will regulated down to 3.3V for logic
wondiwsBird|otherbox, but the power supply ought to be 5V, right?
kmcr0n0x: you can buy boost modules off aliexpress for just a few bux
spludr0n0x - what is the fet part number in your setup? Start with the datasheet.
kmcr0n0x: you could also add another heater wire in series
Bird|otherboxwondiws, 5V-ish
r0n0xdunno, im at work currently
CircadianRebelwondiws, by spec it can vary from something like 4.6 to 5.5. Or something like that. I can't recall off the top of my head. That is more accurate than 99% of devices need
kmc17:33 < r0n0x> so, are there SCRs which can switch DC by like reversing the input or something?
CircadianRebela lot of that voltage drop is due to the variance in USB cables themselves
r0n0xhow reliable are chinese specs on boost converters these days?
retrosenatorwhat is difference between brushless drive that senses voltage vs current on each leg?
retrosenatorsome measure emf voltage, others measure phase current
r0n0xi have one i know of for $4, 250W allegedly
r0n0xwould do the job if its as it says
retrosenatorr0n0x: divide rating by 5 and you should be ok
retrosenatorworks for me anyway
VanUnamedhi Viper-7
VanUnamedtoday I launched a trowel
retrosenatorr0n0x: do you have a picture? Does it look like it can do 250 watt?
r0n0xhmm, never mind
r0n0xbut theres others like it, utilizing ZVS switching or whatever to deliver more power for cheaper
VanUnamedthe word implies that you get pissed off and trow it
r0n0xseems theres been a sudden change since last i was looking into and using chinese boost converters
VanUnamedtoday I bought some solar
VanUnamedthis charger controller is so cool
VanUnamedalso 200 quid are. lol
VanUnamedi bought just one poly panel for now
retrosenatorVanUnamed: I plug solar panel direct to battery
VanUnamedi will then order mono cells from china and build my own panels
VanUnamedbut panels are 36v and battery is 12 lol
r0n0xbuilding a panel is hard XD
VanUnamedalso that espensive thing better protect battery and helps o get more juice on cloudy days
retrosenatorVanUnamed: what do you think about getting the cells that are rated for 50-100 suns?
VanUnamedis it
retrosenatorthen put them in a solar concentrator, and watercool to get hot water
retrosenatoralso they are more efficient than normal PV cells
VanUnamedr0n0x: it's tedious rather than hard
r0n0xanother question, whats the best way to switch a coilgun?
retrosenatorit's hard to make it waterproof
retrosenatorr0n0x: scr
r0n0xand how do i switch it off on time?
retrosenatorwhy off?
VanUnamedalso I buy shit, then I don't have a roof
r0n0xif it remains on until the voltage naturally drops then it will pull the ammo back into the core
VanUnamedI mean, I have a roof, but its total rubbish lolol
VanUnamedi will have to build something else on the wall
CircadianRebelisn't 'off' for a coilgun when the caps are drained? (which is almost instant, ideally)
retrosenatorit's discharging the capacitor
restorerr0n0x: last I looked into it, large MOSFETs or IGBTs are used when you want to switch off
r0n0xoh good
retrosenatorVanUnamed: put a garden instead of solar panels?
r0n0xi was planning on that anyway
restorerthough I only went as far as 1-stage with an SCR
VanUnamedwhy a garden
r0n0xbut i figured it was a bad compromise XD
VanUnamedi want to put them up, but I dont like my roof
Viper-7r0n0x: probably an iggy
VanUnamedit looks dangerous and probably is
r0n0xswitch on with SCR, switch off with a fet
Viper-7VanUnamed: lol
retrosenatorI made a coil gun once, and I think I switched it by touching wires together
r0n0xwill the SCR switch on in time reliably?
r0n0xor am i gonna need to use sensors to know when to switch off
VanUnamed think im going to build some sort of "pergola" attached to the wall and the ground
restorerunless you tune it very carefully, you probably want to use sensors
VanUnamedand on that i will put the panels
r0n0xi can tune it dont worry about that
VanUnamedlots of problems, esp. welding the structure without powerLOL
r0n0xbut if sensors are just more reliable then id likely do it
restorerI mean, to tune it you'd need sensors anyway, or a very accurate simulation
VanUnamedi'll either ask my nicer neighbour if he can borrow me some, or i'll kill my gen .
r0n0xor an oscilloscope
r0n0xfor reading timing data
restorerI suppose
r0n0xbut if sensors can be used each time then thats probably better
restoreryou'd have to take a look at the change in current/voltage/something as the projectile passes through each coil
r0n0xim going multi stage BTW
Viper-7r0n0x: i wouldnt sense it at all, just use an adjustable time
r0n0xi was thinking more using LED/photoresistors
r0n0xand maths
restoreras long as you have enough experience with uCs and sensors and the maths, sure
godSend23hey all
CircadianRebelI once had the crazy idea of power rails inside the barrel of a coilgun and using the projectile to contact and switch the coils, thus auto-timing the stages. I imagine it would be a spectacular failure.
r0n0xor use identical ammo each time and fixed time
ketasCircadianRebel: seems like cheap gun
CircadianRebelphotoresistor might not react fast enough, if you actually get the project moving fast enough to go far enough worth tuning the timing
CircadianRebelketas, ?
ketasyou only need something with grooves
ketasbut it will wear off
r0n0xtrue, so, timming would be used then and measuring how much acceleration each stage can add
CircadianRebela reverse biased photodiode would respond a lot faster
r0n0xeither way though, SCR + FET or BJT is the way to go right?
ozzzyPIN diode
r0n0xswitch on with SCR and off with the FET
ketasdiode that goes pinnn
CircadianRebelketas, TBH, I eventually decided the tolerances needed to make good contact through the projectile would result in the mechanism eating itself within the first couple shots
ketasCircadianRebel: that bullet is fucking fast
ketasit will melt the rails
ketasor so
CircadianRebelthough, homemad coil guns are not so fast :P
r0n0xand just to clarify, i probably cant measure the velocity of the ammo dynamically by any means so ill need to time everything instead
r0n0xill likely only do 2 stages so, its not that big a deal
CircadianRebelr0n0x, photodiode might work for fast response. a LDR is going to take 50-100ms, depending on your setup
CircadianRebelLight Dependent Resistor. aka, photoresistor
r0n0xis there some other means that might be better?
CircadianRebela photodiode would be much faster. as I've now said three times :P
r0n0xi meant non-optics, or is that the best option, period?
CircadianRebeloh, just in general for sensing it? I have no idea
zigggggyACTION patches patchie
CircadianRebelusing photodiodes to build a photo interrupter would likely be my initial approach
VanUnamedi wil make the land rover i'll buy
VanUnamedmotorhead themed
r0n0xis the issue perhaps that the sensor wont detect a change until after the ammo has gone too far for any kind of control to be applied?
kmcphotodiode + laser
r0n0xis that better somehow?
CircadianRebela photodiode responds a lot faster than an LDR
kmcr0n0x: does a SCR swtch on faster than a (properly gate-driven) FET?
CircadianRebela reverse biased photodiode switches quite quickly
kmcthe light creates a small leakage current right?
r0n0xno idea, but it wont matter as long as it switches on predictably
Viper-7between the sensor latency, the turn on time of your scr/fet/igbt, and the ramp up time of your coil, i expect sensors will need to be uselessly far from the coil they trigger
r0n0xthe second stage sensor just becomes a matter of increasing the inevitable switch on delay
CircadianRebelI was testing some cheap LDRs for a sensing project and found in ideal conditions it took 100ms to settle, though could probably be used for switching within 50ms. For a quick moving projectile I'd assume thought might be far too slow
Viper-7the biggest issue will be the inductance of your coil
r0n0xwhy is that?
r0n0xoh EMF
Viper-7it will take a non zero time for the current to ramp up
r0n0xwell, guess the plan will be, first see how well timing everything goes, since i can measure stuff with a scope by some means or another
Viper-7i feel like just having a knob to adjust the time delay between segments would be massively more usable than a sensor based design - the sensor design would mean it would be relatively automatic once setup, but getting it tuned in the first place would be very hard
r0n0xi was planning on using identical munitions each time anyway
CircadianRebelif anyone wants to buy me the supercaps and wire I'll make a video building a coil gun and figuring out the best way to do timing (and likely getting arrested in the process) :P
r0n0xsupercaps are quite low voltage
r0n0xso unless you got some graphene wire, were out of luck
CircadianRebelthat is why you need numerous in series
Flea86CircadianRebel: Yeah, LDR seem to be only really good for detecting when it's night time.. and for building electronic crickets with it :)
CircadianRebelFlea86, I built color sensors out of them!
Flea86CircadianRebel: You're keen :)
r0n0xif it varies too much, then ill try implementing sensors for compensation
CircadianRebelbut, as previously mentioned, it stage/channel takes ~100ms. and need at least 3 (ideally 5) channels
Flea86CircadianRebel: How well did that work?
CircadianRebelFlea86, it seems to be working well, it got postponed waiting on ordering a couple bits, modelling/3d printing things, and my aggressive procrastination on that last bit
r0n0xperhaps first i should just make the thing XD
CircadianRebelr0n0x, indeed
r0n0xbefore anything i need to make a coilwinder, otherwise i cant construct identical stages
CircadianRebelFlea86, basically, hand testing and reading from a scope and DMM, the values seemed more than adequate for reliable color detection. just need to fully automate it now
r0n0xhey, if im using 2x 450v 4000uF cap banks to switch the coils, what guage wire should i be aiming for?
kmchow fast does it discharge
kmcare they charged to a full 450 V?
r0n0xpertaining to potential efficiency of smaller coils from smaller wire, balanced against increased resistance of smaller wire
spludHeh, only 4000uF ?
r0n0xno idea how fast it discharges
spludcopper bussbars is a good idea if you're going to pump much current.
kmcprobably only a couple amps averaged over 1 ms
r0n0xthat would be hard to wind into a coil
r0n0xmy bank is made up of 450v 560uF caps
CircadianRebelyou're going to (hopefully) be discharging fast enough that the wire can take a lot more current than it's sustained rating
r0n0xinverter caps mind you
spludmy admittedly small wire welder is like 50K uF, (but I run it at more like 45V, so 1/10 your max voltage while over 12X the capacitance).
spludinverter caps?
linux_probeACTION has fond memories of large capacitors letting go in a bank of "magnet magnetizer"
linux_probewent the large boom ended and smoke cloud cleared, people started getting back off the floor and cleaning their shorts
r0n0xi think i have 15 caps all up
r0n0x4000uF is rounding down
spludI have about half of an 18 quart bin filled with 50V and 60V 3300uF caps.
r0n0xanyway, for banks like that any idea what wire i should aim for?
CircadianRebelF = A*s / V
r0n0xi knwo but A is dependant on the coil
spludWhat are you winding the wire around? PVC tube/form?
Viper-7bahh, why do all the cheap multi-cell protection modules have to have the most annoying pinout imaginable
r0n0xsomething like that
SmokinGruntslinux_probe those be fun ;)
spludwinding will be easy then.
r0n0xi know
r0n0xbut, i dont know how coil size and wire guage will impact efficiency
CircadianRebelno, you're solving for A, sorta. if your 450v 4000µF cap bank is fully charged and dumps all it's power in 1s, that is 1.8A
phinxyTo join a thin copper wire (~30AWG) to a low mass stainless steel thing, what is the most feasible option? Are there solders that flow on stainless steel, I have not had success with normal solder.
spludsmaller gauge = higher resistance.
spludphinxy - there are fluxes for stainless.
CircadianRebel!wire 1.8A
electrobotCircadianRebel: Recommended Cu wire for 1.8A in Free Air: 26AWG (0.37mm dia, 0.11mm²), Enclosed: 24AWG (0.46mm dia, 0.17mm²), Windings: 19AWG (0.9mm dia, 0.64mm²)
spludOf course, there are many forms of stainless.
r0n0xso how do i work out how fast the cap dumps in a hypothetical coil?
CircadianRebelyou'd need to approximate the resistance of the coil
phinxyNot that many? Just about three or so?
r0n0xso, what resistance should i aim for?
phinxyIt's a science that i know
spludr0n0x, which is a function of gauge and total winding length.
spludone layer around the OD of a plastic pipe is easy enough to calculate.
phinxyWhat kind of stainless steel would a typical spring inside a cheap toy have? The absolute cheapest, what is that?
CircadianRebelsince we're not talking continuous current, but a short burst with ample cooling time, I figured for 1s burst just to get in the ballpark. 1.8A continuous you need what I just asked electrobot about. For the fraction of a second you're going to be dumping the current, with plenty of cooldown time after, I'd feel pretty safe with 26AWG
phinxyperhaps these key-ring spirals are not even steel..
linux_probeyeah SmokinGrunts, it went off a few times and the whole factory stopped
CircadianRebel!wire 26awg
electrobotCircadianRebel: 26AWG (27.3SWG, 0.13mm², 0.4mm dia, 15.9 mils) Cu Wire Free air: 2.08A, Enclosed: 1.42A, Windings: 0.36A, Ohm/Ft: 0.04081, Ohm/m: 0.13389
CircadianRebel26AWG is 0.13389 ohms per meter
spludr0n0x : http://mustcalculate.com/electronics/capacitorchargeanddischarge.php?vfrom=450&vto=100&vs=0&c=0.004&r=20&time=
phinxyDoes a tab welder care about what materials are being fused together?
r0n0xty, gotta go
spludnot all metals fuse well.
spludAlso, some vaporize before others...
tawrphinxy: of course
tawrnot all metals are compatable
tawrjust like all welding
spludWhich is where you start to look at brazing...
tawrcoatings/platings can sometimes allow metals not normally joinable to be done, so long as the penetration depth is less than the plating depth, etc
kmcI feel like a tabwelder would evaporate some 30 AWG copper
spludYou dial back the voltage.
kmcback to the coilgun: a coil that's charging up will have a higher effective resistance than a coil at steady state, right?
kmcsince an inductor resists changes in current
spludso, for instance, my admittedly small and very basic cap discharge welder: http://mustcalculate.com/electronics/capacitorchargeanddischarge.php?vfrom=45&vto=5&vs=0&c=0.05&r=1
splud45 down to 5V at 50KuF will discharge in about 1/10 of a second and drop 45A into the joint, for about 2KW.
kmcdoes it make a cool noise
spludThat's supposing 1ohm of resistance. 0.1 ohm would cut the time by 10, and (quite predictably) pump current and peak power by 10.
banandanaI got this pcb but those pins look kinda intimidating https://i.imgur.com/RRFC4xs.jpg
Viper-7do i want bubble gum, or creaming soda flavour?
spludkmc: the cap discharge welder? Eh, a little crackle. I've used it for fusing thermocouples.
Viper-7hlep my irc you're my only hope
banandanacreaming soda
splud"creaming soda" ?
banandanacreaming soda
tawrACTION winks at Viper-7
tawrlets head to my carbonator, you'll need to lend a hand
spludadd the flavor AFTER you carbonate.
Viper-7or creaming bubblegum flavour? :P
spludACTION 's nightmares are going to be haunted by "mentos" type scenes.
tawrive heard people say that, it's not a big deal either way and haven't noticed anything one way or another
spludbukkake soda?
Viper-7health hazard: severe. contact hazard: severe (poison). protective equipment: gloves, lab coat, apron, fume hood.
kmccarbonator? but I just met her
kmcI passd a restaurant offering "bukkake udon"... apparently this is what it's called in Japan
kmcinnocent word... only pervs and americans will laugh uncontrollably
kmcand I'm both
restorerbukkake originally refers to... something else, I can't remember
restorerit has a few different uses as metaphors
restorerI wonder if that's the only thing that place serves
restorer(bukkake udon is cold udon with dipping sauce, IIRC)
kmcyeah it means "splashed" or something
restorerno, sorry, cold udon in cold broth
kmcand nah it serves a number of udons
restorermaybe just capitalizing on that particular name :D
restorerugh, bukkake is one of those words Google tautotranslates
restoreror would it be tautranslate?
deltabany alternatives when you click the word?
restoreronly "topped"
kmcrestorer: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E6%89%93%E3%81%A3%E6%8E%9B%E3%81%91
restorerwhich I guess makes sense with bukkake udon
kmc> Continuative form of 打っ掛ける (bukkakeru, “to splash; to pour”)
restorerkmc: heh, okay
restorerI'm still behind on using wiktionary to look up translations, unless Google sends me there
restorer(it helped with those spatula/tadpole/musical note/singing instrument things)
restorerer, ladle, not spatula
restorerin good news: I should be getting just over $1000 in tax refund, once I send them in and wait my turn
kmci'm afraid of the tax man
ozzzyI'm hoping to get my whole witholding back
ozzzyI'll stuff it into savings
restorerthat's actually for a 2015 late return... if they don't throw any penalties on there (I can't find much information on penalties with refund due)
restorerI still have self-employment tax to pay for 2017 :(
ozzzyno penalties here... but the US might have (dunno where you are)
restorerozzzy: all I can find is some percentage of "amount due", unless they actually send a demand letter
ozzzyyou in the US?
restorerand unofficial sources that say, no penalty, it's just a free loan to the government
ozzzythey're really anal about taxes
ozzzythe canadian gov't actually pays you some interest
restorertechnically I was under the limit to even have to file that year, so I think I'll be okay
restorer(federal, anyway)
ozzzyand you don't even need to fill out a return... you can just mail your documents to them with your return and they'll do it for you
kmcbanandana: what's intimidating about the pins?
banandanathey are really small
banandanathe pads
kmcah I thought you meant the headers
kmcthat size isn't TOO bad
kmcare you going to do reflow or use an iron?
banandanaI'd be inclined to say it's smaller in person
restorerI've been doing my taxes by hand and mailing them in for the last few years - it's just cheaper, and in my case there are few enough exceptiong and corner cases that I only sacrifice maybe a few dollars by not catching them
banandanaI have an iron but no reflow
kmcuse a good iron with a fine tip, little teeny bits of solder and then wick up any bridges
kmcremember, the solder is your friend. the solder wants to stick to where it needs to go
restorerI'll still have ~370 to pay this year... self-employment taxes don't get reduced by exemptions or deductions :(
banandanaI have a good iron with a decent tip maybe I should order the BOM and give it a shot even though it looks tiny
karstensragewhat kind of enclosure should i look for for a circuit board that already has a heatsink on it
karstensragewhats the BOM
kmcbill of materials
kmcbanandana: photo? more details?
banandanakmc: it's a 176 pin STM32 discovery board basically
banandanawhich is why that pcb pics has a lot of headers
banandanathe board was made for rusEFI whcih is an electronic fuel injection software
banandanafor running internal combustion engines
tawri just realized how happy I am my phone auto-suggested word as I was typing was 'fuckery'
tawrreally? i thought electronic fuel injection software was for running electric motors
banandanayes tawr
restorerhah, okay, another "legitimate" use for hydroponics, I suppose: https://twitter.com/FoluxSolutions/status/958223727031869440
tawri don't believe you. i'm positive it's for electric motors
banandana> . >
Viper-7hah, so thats why so many people are selling vape juice
Viper-7$0.20 of nicotine, $0.30 of flavouring, $0.60 of vegetable glyceryn, to make a 30ml bottle that sells for $7.99
Viper-7and those prices drop further if you buy in bulk
VanUnamedmaking solar panels IS Hard apparetly lol
VanUnamedi can buy cheap aluminium profiles for sure
VanUnamedi can solder professionally
VanUnamedbut the glass part is weird
VanUnamedi would need tempered glass which I could or could not find for cheap, i dont know, i think for now I would stick with some cheap plexi and we;ll see in future
Viper-7i just made 2x 30ml bottles of juice (one bubblegum, one cream soda), i bought the smallest bottle of unflavoured nicotine i could find, and i used about 1/100th of it between both bottles
pcloverSo i have a question that is on topic for this channel. I have a computer PSU that is like 8 years old. Checking the +12v rail was 12.04v with a multimeter and upon loading it down i got 12.09v would you say it's okay right now?
pcloveri figure it's on topic since they are SMPs
Viper-7pclover: sounds fine to me
pclovermy multimter is only 6000 count sadly
Viper-7you should be loading all rails and testing them all tho, they can interact with each other
pcloveri just did 12v since that was easy to get to
Viper-7eg when theres more load placed on the 12V rail, the 5V rail will typically rise
pcloverand most important
pcloveri've had some cheap crappy PSUs drop to 11.7v under load
pcloverwhich is awful
kmcmaking pannels?
kmcyou mean from raw cells?
Viper-7again thats usually because the 5V rail isnt loaded heavily enough, and its getting too high
Viper-7so it has to let the 12V rail sag
pcloverit was a junk hipro supply in a crappy hp oem pc
kmcpclover: sounds great. 0.8% deviation
pcloversadly i don't have a scope here to check the ripple
kmcthe ATX spec tolerance is ±5% i.e. 0.6V
kmcdo you have any reason ti think the PSU is bad?
pcloverjust it's 8 years old
pcloverand caps age
kmcso even 11.7V is in spec
kmcpclover: do a physical inspection of the caps
pcloveri figure they are solid japan caps
pcloverso not sure if you can visually inspect those
kmcin that case they're probably still ok?
pcloveri loaded it down by putting my 2500k to max load and rendering something on a gtx 670 + 960
kmcthat's a lot of load isn't it
kmcdo you have a kill-a-watt or something to monitor the AC draw?
g0zget an esr meter on themc aps
pcloveri do
pcloverg0z, that is a good idea but i don't have one
LewsThanThreeWoot! https://i.imgur.com/QvQ5LFW.png
LewsThanThreeViper-7, ^ mockup of PCB.
pcloverlooking at a reveiw it's using Nippon Chemi-Con KY and KZE caps
LewsThanThreeMissing the supply for the Pi, but that can be off-circuit
pcloverso i guess they aren't solid
pcloveror are they?
tawrpclover: chances are the psu is fine
pcloveryeah i guess age shouldn't scare me
Viper-7LewsThanThree: you've still got the 100k resistors on the wrong side :P
tawrcaps deteriorate, of course, but name brand / good quality caps can last a long time
LewsThanThreeViper-7, wat. There are no values there.
g0z8 years isn't a long time for caps
Viper-7LewsThanThree: i know, but i know :P
Viper-7U5 and U6, the resistors going to ground
pclovertawr, in this case it uses Nippon Chemi-Con KY and KZE caps
LewsThanThreeI fixed it already!
Viper-7should be *after* U3 and U4
Viper-7aka, on the ADC side
Viper-7SolarV+ should go through the 470k, then split to the 100k to ground, and to the ADC
LewsThanThreeOh right
Viper-7also the trace between VIN+ and the top of P6 looks broken
LewsThanThreeOh, forgot to rerun routing
Viper-7LewsThanThree: finally, just as a personal preference, i'd have P7 and P8 be 2 pin headers, even if one of those pins goes unused
Viper-7if not going so far as setting it up for screw terminals
Viper-7if you're going to solder a wire directly to P7 / P8 tho its fine
Viper-7just yeah, single pin headers are dodgy, easy to come off etc
LewsThanThreeViper-7, wait, is https://i.imgur.com/to1gEVK.png correct?
LewsThanThreeFor those two volt sensors?
Viper-7Solar+ via 470k to A2
Viper-7then from the *adc side* of that 470k resistor, have a 100k to ground
Viper-7not the solar+ side
pcloveranother thing i noticed is that at 12.09 volts when i turned off the load and went back to idle it gradually fell back to 12.04v over a period instead of a instant change
pcloverdoes that mean anything?
nbagshi, im repairing something with a 24v SONGLE power relay in it (SRD-24VDC-SL-C). im assuming this is a cheap part since it has stuck many times and now died. can anyone recommend a brand that is reputable?
HighInBCnbags: that is likely a sign that the relay has been abused
HighInBCthey tend to get stuck when too much current goes through them repeatedly
linux_probeor it was just cheap garbage contacts that broke down and pitted ;)
nbagsHighInBC: im putting around 5A through it
tgeekynbags: HighInBC: or that they are not driving the relay hard enough, so the change in current when turning OFF is not enough to unlatch
nbagstgeeky: could be that. i only measured 5v
nbagsshould i replace with a 5v model?
nbagstgeeky: ok i think i misunderstood
tawrneed a picture of it nbags
LewsThanThreeAlso, the EasyEDA PCB designer is rubbish.
tawrthe 24v in the model could be it's rated switching voltage, or it's actuation voltage
tgeekynbags: well, one sec; there are two voltages; one is the voltage rating (really part of the power rating) on the relay side, the other is the voltage rating on the coil
HighInBCis it an inductive load like a motor?
nbagsit is one of these https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/tWcAAOSwYDZaXKKT/s-l1600.jpg
linux_probe24 is clearly the dc coil rating of the realy
nbagsthe circuit is giving it 5A on the coil
tgeekynbags: no way
nbagssorry, i mean 5v
tgeekythat would blow it up
tgeekyyeah, you need to provide more voltage or pick a 5V coil
nbagsi'm pulling ~5A through it
g0zarg I have no 24awg wire, only 10,12,14,16,18,20 and 22
nbagstgeeky: this is an off-the-shelf product! :(
tgeekyg0z: just add 10 and 14
linux_probe>_> /me wonders how 5amps can be pushed through a 24vdc relay coil :))
g0ztgeeky: !
tgeekylinux_probe: wrong side of the relay
nbagstgeeky: so i should get more life with a 5v or 10v relay?
Viper-7g0z: 22 just wont do? ..
tgeekynbags: i don't know about lifetime at all, I am just suspecting that if you are having the problem that it is not going CLOSED->OPEN when you want it to
nbagsbut should i go with a better brand? i dont want to have to fix this thing again
tgeekyit's because you are not applying enough current to the coil, becuase you are not applying enough voltage
linux_probeget a relay with good contact materials
tgeekyso when you go to turn the voltage (and hence the current) off, to the coil, it's not a severe of enough of a chance to unlatch the 5A you are running through it
linux_probeACTION is unsure if they know what they're running through it
tgeekynbags: are you saying that it's applying 5V to the coil? or 24V?
nbagstgeeky: its applying 5v, i measured it
tgeekynbags: ignore, for the moment, the contactors
tgeekynbags: ok, and the 5A is what voltage (just to be clear, not because I care)
tgeekynbags: ok, that's AC, right?
tgeekynbags: so the advantage of AC is that it zero crosses periodically
linux_probe5 volts to a 24volt rated coil, seems pretty clear the failure there :)
tgeekynbags: do you understand how that helps a relay open?
nbagstgeeky: yeah kinda
tgeekynbags: ok, so the board that is supplying the 5V is a supposedly well designed product of some sort?
nbagstgeeky: its stuck closed in the past and ive had to fix it by wacking it with a screw driver. now eventually its failed open
nbagstgeeky: yeah its a cheap consumer product. maybe they just were getting 24v models cheap
tgeekynbags: well, you might as well go ahead and desolder it, and crack it open
tgeekyto see what's going on
tgeekynbags: i would buy just the exact same brand relay, but 5V instead of 24V
linux_probejust what is that consumer product, that would have such a wrong voltage coil relay
tgeekynbags: I suppose it is possible (you'd have to guess/check or show us) that the source is supplying 24V but the coil is shorting, so it's dropping all the way down to 5V
tgeekythat seems like a bit of a coincidence
nohopEvil-Corp: Shouldn't you be in #th3g3ntl3man ?
nbagsits like this ^^ not sure of the exact model
linux_probepalm faces
nbagstgeeky: ok i will test the voltage again once i desolder. if its still 5v should i replace it with a 5v relay?
tgeekynbags: yes, I think so
tgeekynbags: if you can find a better brand relay that has the exact same footprint (e.g. OMRON) there's no reason not to upgrade
linux_probeprobably stupid design and not enough load
nbagstgeeky: it seemed like to close to exactly 5v to be a coincidence
Evil-CorpD0nt d3lete m3....
tgeekynbags: but you can not afford to e.g. leave any extra wiring or anything, or adapt the footprint to some other relay
tgeekybecause you have 240v
linux_probesnake oil junk
nbagstgeeky: cool, yeah thats what im after i think. a better brand. and probably one more correctly rated
tgeekynbags: the 10A rating is probably OK
nbagstgeeky: yes correct. must be same footprint
tgeekynbags: take pictures of the relay after you pop the plastic off of it
tgeekymaybe it will be obvious how it's failing
Viper-7ok, thats officially the silliest its ever been
Viper-7Awaiting Delivery (85)
nbagsso omron. any other reputable brands i should know about?
Viper-7nbags: not onron or omnon :P
tgeekyi don't know of any good guys except omron; but this also means they are widely faked, unfortunately
tgeekyso get it from a reliable source, or buy both
tgeekymaybe panasonic?
nbagstgeeky: i see. thanks heaps for your help. i'm not going to desolder this today cause i dont have a tool with me and its not coming off easily
Viper-7hah, tinder brand relays... scary
linux_probeornron ornrom, etc.
tgeekynbags: you should be able to remove the plastic cover without desolderingit with just a little brute force
tgeekyor, you know, a lot
tgeekylike a wrench and just grab it and yank it
kmcViper-7: swipe left
electrobotViper-7 just linked to BOLTR: OMWRONG Timer Relay - YouTube
pcloverso i have a dumb question. If the top of a round cap is flat vs a cut out for it to vent does that mean it's a solid one?
tgeekypclover: not necessarily
tgeekypclover: some caps vent from the bottom
tgeekypclover: but it's a decent indicator that it's a solid state electrolytic
Evil-Corp#hamradio dudes talking about car insurance...not cool.
Evil-Corpwas expecting some talk about tubes...morse...all that.
tgeekyi would exepct radios made of meat
Evil-CorpAt least you guys sort of stick to a theme here.
tgeekyelectronics, nuclear weapons, and nazis
Viper-7mmm, baconradio
tgeekyby nazis i meant politics
Evil-CorpBut car insurance ?....c'mon man.
nohoptgeeky: right :)
nohopEvil-Corp: That's a step too far, for sure.
Evil-CorpUnless it somehow involves that girl from the Progessive commercial....
nbagstgeeky: https://www.dropbox.com/s/tjsmaicfxbo0t7g/IMG_20180208_150836~2.jpg?dl=0
intranickEvil-Corp: that chick drives me NUTS
intranicki wish she didnt exist
nbagstgeeky: it sparks a bit when voltage is applied and current flows for a moment. but it doesnt stay closed
Evil-CorpOr...the Geiko gecko.....that is time well spent.
tgeekynbags: that sounds like under voltage for sure
intranickor that freaking aflack duck
jfcaronWho gave that capacitor a wedgie?
jfcaronBtw is anyone able to play this video, or do you get "Technical difficulties"? https://olympics.cbc.ca/video/todays-events/curling-feb-mixed-doubles-can-nor-47576/
nohopTech. deifficulties
Evil-CorpIt was not even #hamradio related car insurance stuff..like my 120 metre antenna took out a bridge or power line as I was driving...that is a story worth sticking around for.
tgeekynbags: can't really get much info from that picture
nbagstgeeky: here's the datasheet: http://www.circuitbasics.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/SRD-05VDC-SL-C-Datasheet.pdf
nbagstgeeky: doesnt give a minimum voltage, only current
tgeekynbags: that's how they work; the coil is wound such that a certain voltage will give enough current
nbagstgeeky: but going with a lower voltage am i risking drawing too much from the micro?
Evil-CorpCBC...always has technical difficulties.
kmcI wouldn't try to run a relay direct from a uC
tgeekykmc: it's an existing product
nbagslooks like a tranny is switching it actually
nbagsbut maybe i shouldnt go all the way down to the 5v model
Viper-7jfcaron: kinda :P
nbagsits a 2n5551
tgeekynbags: so the 24v coil needs 15 mA; by putting 5v in there instead you are only providing it ~ 3 mA
Viper-7its region locked
Viper-7cant access it from here in australia, but if i connect via my canadian VPN it works fine :P
nbagstgeeky: yeah so its a shitty design
pcloverViper-7, thanks for your help. I guess i'm just being overly concerned about the psu
tgeekynbags: perhaps, if there's a transformer in there perhaps it's busted?
Evil-CorpNohop...dude of the week, for telling those guys to stop talking about car insurance...now they are on to health care, hospitals and old people falling down...you really cannot win.
tgeekynbags: a good guess at the output of a uA is ~ 5v 20mA
tgeekyso perhaps the transformer is supposed to take that up to 25v 3ma?
Viper-7pclover: i dont think i helped.. at least not today, but hey :P
nohop"I am a ham, i have fallen and I can't get up"
Viper-7jfcaron: if you want access to it i can hook you up, pm me
pcloversome hams are very nice and helpful people
nohopMost are ;)
tgeekynbags: what is the ohms between the coil terminals?
kmcthose sound like ham topics alright
jfcaronAh I figured it might be a region-lock, but they should have a better message than "technical difficulties".
Evil-CorpEverything except radio...
pcloveri just don't understand why some continue to use old crappy things like AM
pcloversimple but horribly inefficient
tgeekythe only advantage left of AM is that you can design a 2- or 3- part radio
jfcaronCuz they want to talk to old crappy people to listen to AM while driving.
tgeekypclover: forget the efficiency, it causes horrible noise that makes its way into everything
nbagstgeeky: 1.6k. so that is right on
pcloverSSB is much better
Viper-7jfcaron: i have a server in canada setup as a vpn router, i can make unlimited accounts and have unlimited bandwidth, so if you want an account its no big deal
tgeekynbags: do you have a e.g. DC power supply?
Evil-CorpAnd with AM...NSA has no idea what you are talking about...to low tech for them.
Viper-7but if i catch you torrenting through it or such i'll kill the account :P
nbagstgeeky: not here. i'll probably have to continue investigation later
pcloverit also seem some hate the idea of SDR
pcloverand DSP stuff
DocScrutinizer05AM has immanent advantages like true mixing
Evil-CorpNo torrenting...then what;s the point man ?
tgeekynbags: you could run DC e.g. whatever voltage, 5A through the plug, to see if the effect of AC is helping it go open
Viper-7Evil-Corp: ikr
pcloverDocScrutinizer05, what is true mixing?
DocScrutinizer05when you got two TX on same freq
DocScrutinizer05FM the stronger one will mute the weaker
pcloveroh capture effect
Viper-7its funny because despite the server being in canada, google thinks the IP is in brazil - so youtube plays brazilian ads
nbagstgeeky: either way i need a relay now. i might just order a few of various voltages for now. if i put the 24v one in and the same thing happens i know i'll have to look at the tranny or something else
kmcwhat are brazillian ads like
tgeekynbags: sounds like a plan
Viper-7kmc: weird.
nbagstgeeky: thanks again
kmcdo you speak any portuguesa
tgeekynbags: remember it's really the current which opens the relay
Evil-CorpViper7...is that server the ahashare.com one they shut down a few months ago...those east indian guys had a good thing going..I miss it.
tgeekyso if you have to drop the voltage down to 1v or something to get the right current, that will work
pcloverDocScrutinizer05, the reason why Aircraft uses AM
Viper-7Evil-Corp: lol no
Viper-7its a box i rent from ovh
pcloverjust never herd of true mixing before
pcloverwhen i think of mixing i think of IF
pcloverwith it comes to radio
tgeekywhen it comes to mixing, I think of (one part of a mixer)
Evil-CorpEither way..maybe you could hook me up...if I can at some point be trusted. :)
DocScrutinizer05yeah sorry, my english technical terms vocabulary is not really comprehensive
kmctgeeky: why does AM cause noise especially?
pclovertgeeky, it's Armstrong's fault for causing us to deal with images and other IF problems :)
tgeekykmc: because of it's locality to DC
pcloverbut direct-conversion has it's own problems
tgeekyso it means it's not as profitable to convert down to an IF of 0Hz, instead you usually want to convert to some much higher frequency
pcloveralot of stuff does direct conversion
kmcwhat do you mean by locality exactly
tgeekykmc: I mean that that AM radio stations being in the low MHz range
tgeekyinterferes with your ability to convert arbitrary stages of RF pipelines down to DC
tgeekywhich might be something you'd otherwise want to do
tgeekyi could be wrong, this is not my area of expertise
kmcI thought you meant the modulation scheme generally
tgeekykmc: ah, no!
phinxyIs this enough decoupling for esp8266? https://imgur.com/a/uRrMs
Viper-7phinxy: nope
tgeekyphinxy: you need 15 more of those boards
Viper-718 if you're using the ADC and WiFi at the same time
DocScrutinizer05reminds me on that bundle of 40 motor elcos rated 400V I charged via a 60W bulb and a diode, just to short them with alu foil or whatever for the BANG
Goopoooooh nice. There's a channel for this topic.
kmcand there's a topic for this channel!
electrobotSmokinGrunts just linked to www.youtube.com (VR Anatomy - inside the thorax (chest cavity) of a cadaver in 360° - YouTube)
GoopOh. Is English not allowed here?
Viper-7preferably bad english
linux_probeor is that chinglish
yukenIf I want to get into designing simple processors, where should I start?
yukensorry, when I say that - I mean simple computers that can carry out tasks.
yukenNot just a processor itself :p
Viper-7i liked the idea of the chinese in french speaking canada, speaking frandarin
Viper-7yuken: thats just about the widest question anyone could ask here :P
Viper-7how much do you know already, what do you want to learn, and why do you want to roll such things yourself?
kmcMIT's 6.004 is a cool course on that
kmcCPU architecture for beginners
linux_probeproblem is, they dont even know the architecture anymore
kmcwonder wtf this is: http://tinyimg.io/i/y3HDmqW.PNG
Viper-7the problem is, theres like.. a small handful of people that still have any genuine commercial reason to be designing processors these days
tgeekykmc: cell phone
Viper-7and they basically never do it from the ground up either
kmctgeeky: interesting. why so much BW?
tgeekykmc: that's ... not a lot of bandwidth, and I'm not sure if the answer anyway, but I *generated* basically this signal the other day
kmcwell it's a lot compared to the analog narrow FM i've been looking for
kmcbut ok
tgeekythe highest actual data bandwidth i could generate was like 400 kHz
tgeekyor QAM16
bgamarihow does one go about troubleshooting digital cross-talk into a DAC output?
kmcso buried within that block of spectral power, there's a bunch of independent QAM modulated data streams?
kmcis the DAC in a MCU or standalone
bgamariI'm driving an SPI DAC with a ~20MHz clock
tgeekykmc: i'm really not sure how to describe it, and I want to be specific
bgamarikmc, standalong
bgamaristandalone rather
kmcdo you have plenty of filtering caps
bgamaridriven by an FPGA
kmcclose to the chip
bgamarikmc, It's quite well bypassed
tgeekykmc: I thought it would look more defined, too; e.g. you see humps here and there, but it looked like that on a SDR
Viper-7kmc: lte uses DSSS no?
tgeekykmc: i can generate do some investigation since i can generate, SDR, and also spectrum analyze it
kmctgeeky: are you setting up a LTE Base station?
tgeekykmc: and get screenshots
kmcViper-7: I'm not sure
tgeekykmc: no, but I have a spectrum analyzer that is a base station test set
bgamarikmc, a 100nF right next to the digital supply pad
tgeekyagilent e7495a
bgamariand a 100nF and 10uF right next to the analog supply pad
kmcdoes the noise show up on those power pins?
kmc(I don't have any experience in this area really)
tgeekykmc: it also has a utility to look at a spectrum and it will guess what signals or bands are causing what problem; perhaps it will identify the exact channel arrangement here.
tgeekykmc: do you know the frequency drift on that device? is it rtl-sdr?
kmcno; yes
kmcI have a bladeRF too
kmchaven't done much w/ it yet
bgamarikmc, strangely enough I'm seeing the noise even if the +12V rail from which the analog supply is derived
Viper-7well 3G is UMTS, which is wideband CDMA, which is an extension of DS-CDMA, which is based on DSSS
Viper-7all im saying is, its not actually using all that bandwidth, its using a narrow section of that bandwidth at a time, but hopping around everywhere within that range
bgamarithe analog supply is derived via a switching regulator, followed by a linear regulator, followed by a three-pad cap
kmcViper-7: I think those are two different ways of thinking about the same phenomenon?
bgamariand a filter network
Viper-7kmc: kinda sorta
kmcI think of DSSS not as frequency hopping but spectral broadening by modulating a code sequence
tgeekyViper-7: that I believe to be true anyway, and because when I generate the various signals with this box, signals which have basically no data (pilot only or 9.6Kbps) are exactly the same size as those at full bore (496K or whatever)
kmcI don't know this stuff very well
tgeekyViper-7: re: this appears to be the same size regardless of actual data rate
kmcACTION has wandered down into the police frequencies now
kmcI should get another RTL-SDR so I can monitor trunked nets
Viper-7kmc: well its sequenced (the first s), but its not a linear progression, its pseudorandom
tgeekyi have two rtl-sdrs, i dont even know what that means
Viper-7so it basically is frequency hopping
bgamarithe output drivers of the FPGA are set for slow slews
tgeekyViper-7: but one should be able to detect that, I guess its frequency hopping that's way too fast for these SDRs to find it?
kmctrunking? it's when you have a digital control frequency which dynamically allocates users between a set of talk frequencies
tgeekykmc: k
kmcpopular with the po-po
tgeekykmc: i would want to use two just to have a realtime bandwidth of ~ 5 MHz
tgeekyinstead of 2.4
kmcah cool
tgeekyi guess, i only got two due to amazon's mistake
Viper-7tgeeky: shrug, i have an SDR, about all i've done with it was tune into FM radio and went "yep, it works"
kmcI was listening to ATC just now
kmcNorcal Approach
kmcI'm not in a great spot physically for radio tho
tgeekykmc: it says, for all of these regions, "CDMA NA Cell xxx Fwd"
tgeekye.g 750
tgeeky*shrug*, one sec
tgeekykmc: oh, I was trying to figure out what that spike is; I thought it might be a carrier at first, but I think instead it's maybe a FM alias?
tgeekyor something alias? is it there on other screens?
tgeekyerr, other frequency spans
kmcnot generally
MrMobiuswhats the deal with clocked EEPROM? why would you apply a new address but not want the output data to change?
kmcmy RTL-SDR got pretty hot :P
kmchi Goop :) welcome back
baldengineerMrMobius guessing, latency? you send out the address while reading the data?
kmcViper-7: FM radio stations are so powerful
immibisMrMobius: perhaps it's cheaper and/or more compact to make eeprom that requires a clock
kmcI hear them all over the SDR's range
kmcas harmonics
Viper-7heh yeah
tgeekykmc: yeah; i recently had some difficulty using the available equip i have to characterize the FM filters e.g. the RTL-SDR one
tgeekybecause they attenuate so deeply
tgeeky~ 70dB
CircadianRebelimmibis, no, latching the data on a clock requires extra bits in the EEPROM
tgeekykmc: to start; this is the shown signal (image 3) from this device, through a type N cable, back into the device
tgeekykmc: the settings for the RF signal generator are on the 1st screenshot
CircadianRebelMrMobius, if the output wasn't latched on a clock, while changing the address the output would effectively be undefined, as each addr line would change at slightly different times, and in some cases that could cause issues. And, as baldengineer said, you can update the addr lines while still using the data.
spludha: https://imgur.com/gallery/rONZ6
CircadianRebel"how can we put this in front of the deadpool marketing people?" ... something tells me they already know about it.
spludI went and laid out cuts and made the coverplate for the hot wire stripper and moved the prototype circuit to it. Still need to mount to sides (will do that tomorrow) and make a depth guide and spinner (for lack of a better term).
CircadianRebelyou're doing what?
spludAnd need to wire up the "Cycle" button to the uC board (simple, with HW debounce), update code to ramp up, run for 'x' seconds, ramp down.
spludan electric wire stripper.
CircadianRebelhot wire stripper? does that mean melting it off?
spludno nicking the conductor
spludnot melting it all off - melting through the perimeter allowing the end to be pulled off.
MrMobiusCircadianRebel, but then when the clock changes, wouldnt the new values also change at slightly different times?
spludI also need to add an insulation grabbie to the base,
CircadianRebelMrMobius, not really. all the gate are switched on the same signal so any different comes down to how fast the silicon junctions can react
CircadianRebelMrMobius, addr in lines might be changed one at a time
spludThere are however some insulations it won't deal with. I can cut teflon with it, but (kinda obviously) not silicone.
CircadianRebelmost is going to be PVC insulation anyways
spluddepends - I actually used silicone insulated wire for the runs to the two terminals on this thing. <g>
spludBut yea, PVC is common. There's also whatever insulation is used on thermocouple wiring.
spludI've some fiddling to do, but this is supreme for fine stranded wire.
spludI don't even remember what got me thinking about this again a couple of days ago.
CircadianRebelI remember this topic coming up a week or two ago
restorerahh, alright, I did some dirty work to get things more put together
restorerpower LED on the glue gun is a success
spludsilly Q, but what's the need for the power LED?
restorerand I finally finally hooked up wires and cables to the bare PSU I have, and built it into the box it came in, with screw terminals
spludKeep leaving the thing on?
restorersplud: I kept ... yeah, exactly
restorerit's a plug-in-to-power, no switch kind of thing
CircadianRebelI keep thinking about adding a power LED and a switch to my glue gun
restorerso I wanted *something* to remind me to unplug it, and the easiest solution was a power LED to remind me
spludI have a uC controlled outlet. I call it "TinySocket".
spludbutton, LED.
restorerI probably could've fit s little switch too, but what's the point
spluduC runs a state machine.
spludpress button, resets the state machine, turns on the outlet and starts countdown. Drives LED.
restorerthese .156" connectors have the oddest female pins
spludAfter 10 minutes, enters second stage, starts flashing the LED slowly. "hey, I'm going to time out in a bit"
restorerI couldn't figure out a way to crimp wires to them, so I just soldered them and jammed them back in
splud30 seconds, transitions to next state, flashes LED rapidly. "hey, I'm going to shut off soon."
splud30 seconds, switches off.
CircadianRebelmy glue gun gets plugged in to the same power strip that controls my bajillion lumen workbench light. It's pretty hard to forget to turn that powerstrip off
spludany time in there, can press the button, resets to start of state.
spludor hold a couple of seconds (though I'm going to tweak that), and it powers off.
spludHandy for cheap stick soldering irons, glue guns, etc.
spluduC is powered via capacitive reactance circuit, so it's all nicely self-contained, uses negligible power.
spludOoh, hot wire stripper is niiiice on insulated braids.
spludand (cheap) PVC insulated meter probe leads.
spludThough admittedly, not much reason to salvage those.
spludHeh, the protoboard with regulators, fet, uC, and indicator LED is actually held to the faceplate through friction on the LED pressed through the lasercut hole for the LED itself.
spludHave a cutout for the ISP socket so I can reprogram it.
spludFeck, where was this laser cutter 30 years ago?
CircadianRebelACTION wishes he had access to a laser cutter
spludI cut multiple mount holes for the machine screw standoffs for holding the Kanthal wire - makes it easier to experiment with shorter or longer lengths of wire.
restorerI would like a retro-style (pseudo-retro, probably), tiny console for setting up at my workbench to program uCs with all my other electronics instead of over here with my laptop
spludOne side is attached with a spring, since when the Kanthal (or Nichrome, but that doesn't handle high temps as well) it expands and would otherwise become a bit floppy.
restorer...or I suppose a folding tray table to put my laptop on :)
spludUhm, set up a laptop over at your workbench?
CircadianRebellaptop is required bench equipment!
restorermy superglue wasn't sticking to the glue gun's plastic, so I had to put a lighter to a glue stick and smash that around the LED
spludThough yea, I get it - I have a barn workshop. I'm sitting at my primary terminal, which is adjacent to the laser cutter in a 14x20 office space. The electronics bench is out the door and 20 feet away.
CircadianRebel14x20? damn
spludI spend time between the two. Much easier to keep the office space comfortable though.
spluddamn what?
spludthe barn is 2200 sf.
kmcfor my ideal bench I think I'd like some mini-PC tucked out the way, with a wall mounted monitor
CircadianRebelso much space
restorerACTION echoes kmc
spludSo full of stuff.
SmokinGruntssuper interesting! https://youtu.be/aMcjxSThD54
electrobotSmokinGrunts just linked to www.youtube.com (Jordan Peterson debate on the gender pay gap, campus protests and postmodernism - YouTube)
restorerthat was my idea, mostly
kmcthere's an echo in here o_O
restorergod, my back is killing me now
CircadianRebelkmc, laptop is better, as it means electrical isolation; no path to ground through the USB port
kmceven plugged in?
kmcis the same true of a mini PC powered thru a wall wart type brick
restorerit's the only reason I didn't go right on to building the inverter I have in pieces in a bag
spludYea, it's not like there aren't dongles that can fry your laptop...
kmcI think it would be
CircadianRebelthe vast majority of laptop PSUs are isolated. You can check by seeing how many pins it is. If it's a normal 2 pole barrel jack (like the majority) then it should be isolated. you can test with a meter to be sure
spludIn a couple of months, I may take the time to rebuild the electronics bench section.
spludMore switches and outlet controls on the back, reposition some stuff.
CircadianRebelkmc, sounds plausible
kmcjust a continuity test?
kmcany mains powered SMPS should be isolated right
spludSHOULD be.
CircadianRebelcontinuity test, yeah.
spludBecause the SMPS should be running through a transformer.
CircadianRebelright, SHOULD be
kmcSmokinGrunts: oh, that's the video where he completely owns the interviewer who can't do debate for shit?
kmcthat's what I was told anyway
SmokinGruntsso far, seems like it
spludYou're going from AC to DC anyway, so would be silly to have continuity there. Want hum?
kmcI watched a little and wasn't THAT impressed, but it's nice to see someone who doesn't bow under the "buh buh you're racist for using facts"
SmokinGruntsI enjoyed the part of "what gives you the right to say that...?" *pause* "Well, I'm a clinical psychologist..."
restorerI need, like, a whole-back TENS unit
spludwell, that's it for me today. Diagnosed what killed something, fixed it, pushed a project farther along. Didn't make a single red cent in the process.
spludUntil tomorrow. Later.
restorerme either!
restorerwell, aside from the future income of the taxes I finished
restorerfederal was already done, I had to finish off the state return
restoreranother $347
spludWe overwithold. Sucks getting hit with penalties for hot having witheld enough.
restorerI went for the standard withholding because I was hoping to work there for more than 2 months
spludMight see $20K or more in refund. This year's taxes (processed next year) is going to suck, since we're in a high income state, pay lots of property taxes, and the new tax laws are set up to screw us.
Loetmichelmornin'. MUCH better. Still have pain when coughing, but i think thats just sore muscles from coughing, no more pain in the windpipe and no more fever... coffee, off to work... i like the fact that i shrug off a cold so fast ;)
spludanyway, off for the night. Have fun.
Loetmichelsplud: hey, be glad not to live in germany. i earned 33k6 eur last year... and got 17400 eur on my account. rest is taxes and mandatory insurances...
kmcyeah but you HAVE insurance
kmcand a functioning-ish government
Loetmichelkmc: true
Mikeeeas a resident of new york, over half of my money goes to taxes
jaggzSpirit532, hmm.. using linux libseek-thermal.. not a powerful interface, but I don't really trust the windows one that I can't see their actual source code, although supposedly it's there somewhere..
restorerinsurance costs for me are a lot higher than taxes here
Mikeeethe government lets me keep a little over 40% of my money
restorerI just don't earn enough for the govt to take much of my money
restorerI even got the Earned Income Credit again this year
Mikeeerestorer do they have sales tax where you live?
restorerokay, that too
Mikeeetransportation taxes
restorerit's pretty high here, for the US
restorerI think it's up to 9.75% total here in LA
Mikeeesubsidies on things there's no logical reason to every subsidize
restorermost of LA
Mikeeelol california is the only place worse than new york when it comes to taxes
restorergas taxes that are completely invisible (already included in the displayed price of gas)
Mikeeethats a disgusting thing in itself
restorerwell, not *completely* - it's a flat tax you can just look up
restorerbut you have to know it exists
Mikeeenobody looks it up
Mikeeeits the same way here
restorerthey mostly see "Gas Tax Hike" in the news
Mikeeeexcept we have reservations that remind everyone that the state is fucking them over
restorerwe have Use Tax
LoetmichelMikeee: over here it depends on how much you earn
restorerit's like make-up sales tax for things you buy out-of-state where tax isn't charged
Loetmichelmy income is considered "low" here, so my tax rate is only 32% or so
restorerI have no idea if that includes out-of-country purchases
kmcthe federal gas tax hasn't gone up in forever and that's part of why our infrastructure sucxs and is fallig apart
MikeeeLoetmichel my tax rate is only ~40%
Mikeeebut theres taxes and fees on everything
Loetmichelits progressive, meaning the rate goes up the more you earn
Mikeeeproperty taxes, income taxes, sales taxes, school taxes
Mikeeeit comes out to be between 50 and 60% of overall income
Mikeeeeven more if you smoke or drink
restorerthe highest I've been is the 15% bracket (which is 10% on the first $9,225, then 15% on what's above that)
LoetmichelVAT is added here to the purchases, not to the income
Mikeeehere its taken from everywhere, all the time
Loetmicheland i have no house, so no property taxes
Loetmicheland no school taxes either
Mikeeewell someone is paying property tax
Mikeeeand school tax
Mikeeeits the person you're renting from
LoetmichelMikeee: yes, she does
Loetmichelbut thats not my problem
Loetmichelas long as she keeps the rent stable
Mikeeeits hidden in their profits
Mikeeewhich is nice, because you have someone working to have every incentive to pay as little as possible to maximize their bottom line
Mikeeemy family runs a few apartments. I put in all sorts of upgrades every year because they're subsidized or have tax incentives
Loetmichelover here in germany my last income slip looked like "income: 2800 eur, 707 eur income tax, 40 eur solidary tax for integrating the DDR into west Germany, 230 eur health insurance, 264 eur retirement insurance, 42 eur unemplyment insurance, 35 eur old age nursery insurance."
Mikeeemust be nice to have an itemized listing of where your money is going
Mikeeein the USA, taxes are put into a giant pool which government entities draw from
Loetmichelsame here
Mikeeeits what allows for so much corruption in the USA
Mikeeeno accountability
Loetmicheljust that things like the solidary tax are "pourpose bound" for anything happening in the new states
Loetmichelso we have a few different pools to draw from
restorer"Federal income tax withheld: 1050.67 / Social Security tax withheld: 570.68 / Medicare tax withheld: 133.46 / State income tax: 317.37 / CA SDI: 91.95"
kmcthey're STILL charging you for the DDR
kmcwhat the hell
SmokinGruntsWOW that was somethin'!
Loetmichelkmc: yes
SmokinGruntsthat guy's a great speaker
kmcthe berlin wall has now been gone longer than its entire lifespan
Loetmicheli know
Loetmichelits not easy to integrate a THAT run down economy one third the size of your own and lift them up to western levels though
restoreron the other side, CA doesn't charge income tax on any benefits/settlements from the Armenian Genocide
restorerthat stuck out as I was scrolling through the list of differences between CA tax and Federal
Loetmichelkmc: the eastern part of germany still has slighty lower living standards and slightly higher unemployment. it gets better though
Loetmichel... VERY slowly
Shawn|i7-720QMdo these have any descent capture? https://www.ebay.com/itm/Mini-Portable-USB-2-0-Port-HD-HDMI-1080P-60fps-Video-Capture-Card-Monitor-for-PC/202103310652?
Viper-7Shawn|i7-720QM: lolno
Viper-7they can accept 1080p *input*, but give like 240p output :P
Shawn|i7-720QMthats an absurd guess
Shawn|i7-720QM240P is VCR quality
electrobotViper-7 just linked to www.youtube.com (1080p 60 FPS HDMI capture card for only $15? | UTV 007 HDMI USB Review - YouTube)
jozehuman eyes are VGA anyway :)
Viper-7480p at 25 FPS at max, but even that looks shite for 480p
Shawn|i7-720QMmy easiercap usb chinese generics give 720x480P
Viper-7they're a hdmi to composite video adapter, then a cheap generic composite capture card
Shawn|i7-720QMI need some sort of cheap solution to adding 1080P usb video input to my android VR headset that has a usb 2.0 host port
Viper-7because its a) not doing any proper downscaling, and b) not correctly matched to the composite video signal, you get far less than even the designed 480p, and thats before even considering the fact that it stretches your input to 4:3
Viper-7so yeah, i'll stick with 240p :P
Flea86240p 4lyfe
Shawn|i7-720QMViper-7, your very naive if you stick with 240P, they can go that low, but are 480P to 560P max
Shawn|i7-720QMerm 576P
Viper-7Shawn|i7-720QM: the output is 720x480 MAX, but its not even that when you consider that the image is blurred and corrupted during the conversion process
Viper-7its using composite video internally, which is typically a max of 576*i*
Viper-7more commonly 480i
Shawn|i7-720QMmy cheap EasyCap clone generic composite/svideo audio ADC does 576P max
Viper-7and since its outputting 480, i'll go with that
Viper-7and 480 interlaced means theres only 240 pixels on the vertical, per frame
DuckleMan Did you know that if you buy a phone in Japan, and use it, it'll sound worse for the ones you are talking to on the phone
DuckleThe compression algorithm for speech is tailored to the langauge in the area
Viper-7there are decent 1080p60 HDMI to USB 2.0 adapters, eg elgato makes one that gives a quite decent image
Viper-7but its more like $200 rather than $15
Viper-7and being elgato, only supports unprotected hdmi, certainly nothing resembling HDCP or such
Shawn|i7-720QMwhy do they cost as much as a phon??
Viper-7because it actually takes a fair amount of effort to do that processing
Viper-7reading the HDMI signal, recomposing it into a framebuffer and storing multiple frames of that in fast memory, then using hardware compression on that data, then pushing it over USB
Viper-7it basically needs a special ASIC, regular CPUs dont have the inputs to handle it
Viper-7some FPGA boards could do it
Viper-7but those dedicated hdmi input chips run around the $50 mark, because they're not really mass produced items - possibly more for the 60 fps ones
Viper-7by the time they build a retail device around that, $200 isnt terrible tbh
Viper-7eg https://auvidea.com/b101-hdmi-to-csi-2-bridge-15-pin-fpc/
Viper-7that takes 1080p25 and converts it to CSI format, that a CPU can more readily accept
Viper-7you still need a SoC or such to take that CSI connection and compress it, then act as a usb device and stream it out a bulk endpoint
Viper-7you could build such a system with a raspberry pi or such, presuming you can get the hardware encoder to work, for about $150, but again thats only 1080p25
Shawn|i7-720QMthis any better? https://www.ebay.com/itm/DigitNow-HDMI-Video-Capture-with-USB3-0-2-0-in-1080P-Record-Card-Box-Captur/122828106419?
Viper-7maybe - from the description it suggests its streaming raw frames through USB 3, and relying on your PC to handle the encoding, probably safe to assume it wont have a wide array of GPU support, so that'll mean your CPU has to handle the encoding in software, so that'll chew a decent chunk of resources.
Viper-71080p @ 24bpp @ 60 fps is about 3gbit of data
Viper-7so USB 3 could in theory handle that
Viper-7but yeah it'll smash your CPU
Viper-7still, could work - but i wouldnt at all be shocked to discover it loves dropping frames randomly as your os kernel switches to do other things
Viper-7certainly not over usb 2 tho
Viper-7and it will need their software on your pc, it wont work as a generic input device without loading their drivers
Shawn|i7-720QMI'm not looking for no 60FPS
Shawn|i7-720QMonly 30
Viper-7720p25 is still 550mbit of data, beyond USB 2.0's capability, even on a dedicated bus
Viper-7720p15? sure
Shawn|i7-720QMwhat about over wifi?
Viper-7just mind the above caveats on software support
HaxxaI have a 240V to 12VAC-24VAC Transformer, All the wires are the same colour - how would I identify the Neutral (Common) Wire vs Active?
Shawn|i7-720QMis wifi no better?
Viper-7well once the data is compressed with h264 or such, it drops to only a few mbit, so thats easy
HaxxaI have a multimeter handy
Viper-7the problem is that the dongle you linked doesnt do the encoding onboard
Viper-7so you could have a dedicated pc to connect the dongle to, receive the data, compress it, and stream it out over wifi, sure
Viper-7but i'd argue you're now talking about a $1000 solution, when you include the PC to do that :P
Shawn|i7-720QMI'm not even looking at the dongle I linked anymore
Viper-7Haxxa: theres a difference?
Shawn|i7-720QMViper-7, $1000 is absurd
Viper-7hence why i say 'premium' products like the elgato camlink, are actually pretty good value
HaxxaViper-7, well one wire is already running elsewhere I need to tell which one it is so I can pick the other wire with the potential difference.
HaxxaViper-7, the connector avoids me easily probing them so Ideally it would be good to know before I start splicing wires
Viper-7Haxxa: well the transformer itself is almost certainly symmetrical, with no obvious difference between the two AC inputs
HaxxaViper-7, so only way to check is multimeter and splice wires until I find one which is 24vac?
Haxxa50/50 chance I guess
Viper-7by neutral and active i assumed you were talking about the primary side, not the secondary
Viper-7in theory the 24V winding should have more resistance than the 12V winding, being longer due to having more turns, but that also depends on the gauge of the windings, and it wont be a big difference
HaxxaViper-7, true
Haxxanice I will check that too
Viper-7if you can measure inductance that may give a more reliable difference, but eh
Shawn|i7-720QMViper-7, does there exist a solution for usb video capture to usb video input?
HaxxaViper-7, thanks I will take my chances and splice
Shawn|i7-720QMerm output
Viper-7they're both rather loosely defined, so i'd say no?
Viper-7place your bets, does "pump tube ID 3mm, OD 5mm" refer to the tube itself, or the hose fittings
willcI can't believe it... I refuse to believe it. The room is.... quiet :o
Viper-7its your imagination
willcI knew it!
willcPhew. I was getting worried
Viper-7its your imagination
ahoohi. i have precious gigabytes on one 2.5" drive that i want to preserve as long as possible. what measurements have to be taken when keeping it? anti static foil? check. a seagate plastic drive container - check. bubble foil check
mrdatahammer: check
mrdatavat of nitric acid: check
mrdataoh, sorry; you said preserve
watered_So my washing machine won't stop filling water when on automatic fuzzy logic mode
watered_It used to work properly before
watered_now it fills water all the way till the top and doesn't spin or do anything
watered_My guess is it fills water and is then overloaded
watered_I can run it proper on manual mode
watered_But I need to get it working properly on the fuzzy logic mode
watered_I guess some sensor is damaged
watered_not sure which
watered_anyone have any clue on how these top loading automatic loading washing machines work?
linux_probeACTION looks at ealy 90's washer and 80's dryer
linux_probeyep, plain simple machines
Evil-CorpSpaceX...my kind of company...who else (except maybe north korea) would launch a car into space, complete with a dummy at the wheel...an instant classic.
dayim being bombarded with swedish spam D:
daythe ONLY ever swedish contact i had was a governmental one...
Evil-CorpA Tesla roadster no less...not some beige GM minivan...very cool.
Evil-CorpI would love some spam from a swedish girl...one with spacex sized rockets.
willcI wish I had enough money to throw cars into space
willcInstead of paying for all my car repairs
willcjust to make it into the office
Evil-CorpDown south they just throw them in the swamp.
daywould be interesting to know how much of his personal money is actually in these companies
dayi doubt its all that much relatively speaking
willcThrow a paper cup on the ground it is littering. Launch a perfectly functioning automobile into space and it is an instant classic.
willcSuch a strange world
willcI guess I need to start developing flamethrowers for some startup capital
Evil-CorpI would pay to work there...just for the stories I could tell.
willcany buyers?
Evil-CorpNapalm ?
Viper-7willc: sounds boring :P
willcViper-7, what if I add a laser?
Viper-7ACTION makes wooshing noises
willcEven if you run out of fuel you can still entertain the cat
Evil-CorpLaser's make everything cool.
Evil-CorpDonald Trump + lasers=cool
Viper-7for something vaguely more on topic
Viper-7wtf and the copper hanging out of the package?
Evil-CorpAl Gore..or even Tipper + lasers = cool
Johnsenmy fleaohm has been released by customs
Viper-7Johnsen: hah nice
Johnsenye took em 8 whole days, lazy asses :p
Johnsenit was "arrived at customs" on 1 feb
Johnsentoday it went "out for delivery"
Johnsenaliexpress never tells what the ICs are :p
Johnsenoh an 8bit shift register
Viper-7the top half of that package looks really messed up tho..
Johnsendunno, ive seen that before
Johnseni guess thats just where they cut it
willcthanks for reminding me I have laser diodes en route from amazon :)
deniskathe only important part is how far the legs are apart :)
Viper-7its a 74 series 595, but with 250mA output at 33Vmax
Viper-7can drive some pretty phat series strings of leds
Johnseni got myself a 10pack of thise silly ali laserdiodes for^$1.5 or so
willcJohnsen, what are you building?
Johnseni just collect useless stuff
Evil-CorpWould a 12 volt + 60 ma supply be sufficient to float or trickle charge a car battery on a vehicle in storage ?
Viper-7yeah i got a bunch of those, played with them once making a little laser pointer turret with 2 servos, a laser diode and an arduino
Viper-7and they've sat in the drawer ever since
Johnsenhehe i did that before
Johnsentoo bad these blue plastic tower servos are not very accurate
Viper-7might be useful if i had a cat
willcI started making a tripwire system to track people entering and exiting abuilding
willcso two lasers and two photosensors
Viper-7Evil-Corp: 60mA will do, but 12V (regulated) wont
Johnsenthere's this dude on youtube that made a blinding robot
Johnsenuses camera to track eyes and shine laser into eyes
willcblinding robot?
Johnsenits not very accurate
Evil-CorpI just velcro them to my shoes for ladies night at the bar...works like a charm.
Johnsenhttps://www.aliexpress.com/item/RCWL-0516-microwave-radar-sensor-module-Human-body-induction-switch-module-Intelligent-sensor/32841588569.html this is my latest order
Johnsenbut i got them at €0.33
Johnsendude upped his price
Viper-7those arent bad, worked great in my solar driveway light thingy
Viper-7motion sensing from within a waterproof box :D
Viper-7with good enough range to see a car at the end of the driveway
Johnsenalso to add to collection, not sure what i'll do with them, but then i got them anyway :p
Viper-7no adjustment on the range tho, or the output pulse length
Johnseni do have a few HB100 but never made the preamp
Johnseni thought you could change resistors to change pulse time
Viper-7yeah, if you want to swap out 0603s
willchow's it work? and could it tell the difference of someone entering or exiting abuilding?
Johnseni can stick a TH resistr in parallel :p
Viper-7willc: the analog part of it could in theory, but the output is just digital, motion or no motion
electrobotJohnsen just linked to The Robot That Shines a Laser in Your Eye - YouTube
Viper-7Johnsen: so you can make the already far too short pulse shorter, nice :P
Viper-7i just added an stm8
Johnseni thought it was 2 second pulse
Viper-7more like 20ms, at least on the one i had
Viper-7i think it wont retrigger for about 2 seconds
Evil-CorpAre dlp modules in older projection tv's, lasers...or just extreme leds's ?
Johnsenmy orders from 27 november came together with my order of 11 january :p
Johnsensilly chinese
willcthis was my present solution https://www.instagram.com/p/Bemwxk7gI6d/?taken-by=willcdotca
Viper-7silly local customs :P
Johnsennah must have been chinese newyear and an overload of work for europeanxmas
Viper-7Evil-Corp: erm, collimated light would be bad for DLP, afaik
Viper-7chinese new year is only just about to start
Viper-7some places went on break on the 6th
Viper-7others are still going
Viper-7so shit that happened in nov - jan isnt related to cny :P
Evil-CorpStill...there must be something you could repurpose them for.
Viper-7Evil-Corp: dlp modules? or lasers? :P
Johnsenwhy would laser be bad for dlp ? they're just mirrors afaik?
Viper-7yeah but you need to hit every mirror with an even spread of light
Viper-7Evil-Corp: well you should be able to use a brighter than normal light source for them and make them into a ghetto projector
Evil-CorpI was thinking of a batman kind of signal...to help me get up for work.
Viper-7like that old trick of using one of those A4-ish school transparency projector things and an LCD panel :P
Johnseni think my work has 4k dlp projectors
willcwill it shoot the lasers into your eyes as incentive?
Johnsenthat reminds me, when i was in highschool we had a B/W lcd display especially made to place on overhead projectors
Johnsenwith a vga connecttor
Johnsenyou know, the slow LCD kind like in calculators etc
Viper-7Johnsen: basically just a gutted LCD monitor yeah
Johnsenthis was in the 90s when that thing ust have been expensive as hell
phinxyCould one make a miniature mercury(Hg) pinball game where the flippers are electromagnets?
Viper-73rd time aliexpress have emailed me for the same order telling me its "at my local post office"
Viper-7when its still about 400km away
jacekowskiViper-7: that is local by chinese standards
Evil-CorpChinese new year on tge 17'th.
phinxyViper-7• Don't forget to leave a review!! nao!
Viper-716th i thought, but yeah
Viper-7most are on break from now till the 22nd
Viper-7i still have... 7 orders awaiting shipment
Evil-CorpStreetvI live on..everyday is chinese new year...
Johnsenby the time i test my stuff (a year after it arrived) i cannot leave feedback anymore
Viper-7and... 78 awaiting delivery
Johnsenmy only 2
Viper-7i said once i got my new job aliexpress (and my post office) would have to look out
Johnsenthose motion sensors and a psu board for a samsung tv
Viper-7im building a new power supply
Johnsenbut i nedd to buy more stuff
Johnsenjust for fun :p
Johnseni need a few attinys
Viper-7got a DPS5015 and DPH5005, a 48V 10A mains supply, a 3S 5.4Ah lipo with charger, fancy gold binding posts, fancy gold banana jacks, fancy 12AWG silicone wire
Johnseni prefer attiny85 but i only have money for 13A :p
Viper-7so it'll be dual output, both 50V channels when on mains, or a 50V and 12V channel when on internal battery power
Viper-7i wanna find one of those metal flight case things to build it into
Viper-7both adjustable cc/cv ofc
Viper-7Johnsen: stm8! :P
Johnseni have those
Johnsenthey are not good for coincells
Evil-CorpI would be impressed by anyone still using phantom power.
Viper-7meh, like 1mA if you clock em down
Johnsentoo high minimum voltage and no interesting sleep modes/low current modes
Johnsen1mA is pretty much on a 200mA coincell (prbably 100mA since they're chinese)
Viper-7cant believe im still not bored of this keyboard
Viper-7individually addressable rgb lights behind every key
Viper-7razer chroma thingamy
Johnseni have a first gen K70, no rgb yet, all red leds
Johnsenbut its fine, i just use it as light
Viper-7it has a "fire" effect while inactive, yellow at the space bar, radiating out to dark red at the edges, flickering and changing
Viper-7and whenever i press a key, a wave of blue light ripples out from that key
Johnsenfancy but useless :p
Evil-CorpI am doing this on my wang-chung tablet.
Johnsenspeaking of tablets
Viper-7i just sit there tapping the ctrl keys to make the waves flow across it
Johnseni bought a real galaxy tab s3 before xmas with "free keyboard cover + steadler pen" value more than €100 in shops
Johnsennow i got an email from samsung "due to delays your cover and pen will be shipped in december 2018"
Viper-7and its proper clicky mechanical key switches too
Viper-7so its fun to type on :D
Johnsenby then my tablet is old
Viper-7lol wtf
Viper-7take it back :P
LoetmichelACTION just had to measure the inner pin of a hollow dc plug... so i raped a digital caliper. Good thing that they cost only 10 eur ... if i had done that with the 250DM mitutoyo in my first apprenticeship my master would have hit me in the face repeatedly... and with good reason... -> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=16971&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
Johnsenthey should just send me 120 eur cashback
Johnsenits a nice thing tho
Johnsenthin, the spen is great to draw ideas or schematics
Viper-7Loetmichel: not a bad job at least
LordCrcthat feel when you can get a single dev board shipped from china for less than the 1000 qty price of the uc alone from farnell/digikey
Viper-7LordCrc: i get that daily :P
Viper-7so i buy from china :D
LordCrcheh yeah it just feels so... wrong
Johnsenmy only worry is that the cheap attiny13A from china are fake
Johnsenlike attiny13 without A
Johnsenso i considered tha east europ shop
synx508Would they not just buy their stuff from China?
Johnsenbut i think tme is a wellrespected shop, not sure
Viper-7Johnsen: i still like the terribly fake buck modules https://www.aliexpress.com/item/LM2596HVS-LM2596-HV-LM2596HV-DC-DC-Adjustable-Step-Down-Buck-Converter-Power-Module-4-5-50V/32840756350.html
LoetmichelViper-7:indeed, i am surprised how similar both sides turned out, for just putting them to the grinding wheel freehand ;)
Viper-7there is no such thing as an LM2596HV.
Johnsenfixed shipping fee, 7.9eur up to 30kg
Viper-7they just add the HV on the end and say it can handle 20V more than it really can.
Johnsenarrival next day
Johnsenofc i dont need 30kg of attinys
Viper-7lol 30kg
Viper-7with their power combined.... you can make an rpi0 :P
Johnsena attiny supercomputer
Viper-7Johnsen: https://www.taydaelectronics.com/attiny13v-attiny13v-10pu-microcontroller-ic.html
Viper-7not the cheapest, but fast & cheap shipping, and very unlikely to be fake
LordCrcwant to make a programmable fan controller for my pc, was thinking of using a stm32f103 board as it has plenty of pwm and usb
Johnsentme is also unlikely to be fake i bet
Viper-7LordCrc: yeah, it'd do well
Johnsenanyway whatever
Viper-7LordCrc: there are technically only 4 PWM peripherals, each with 4 output channels
Viper-7but they're beefy peripherals
Viper-7can do 7.5MHz at 1-bit
Viper-7scale from there
LordCrcViper-7: right, but the fan spec means same frequency on all pwm pins so that shouldn't be an issue?
Johnsen13A is 0.88eur, tiny85 1.12 eur
Viper-7LordCrc: for 4 pin fans, yeah
Johnseni can better get 85 then
LordCrcViper-7: right, that's what im going for
synx508Johnsen, you're right TME looks good, probably as trustworthy as Farnell
Viper-7Johnsen: how about arrow?
LordCrclife's too short for worrying about 3-wire fans
Johnsenno idea i dont know many electronics shops :p
synx508also I like that they have "multiplicity" instead of "quantity"
Johnseni know aliexpress, conrad and now tme :p
zap0Johnsen, you forgot about the best shop of all time.. DSE
Johnseni dont even know what to do with them tbh, i just felt like playing a bit with very low power mcus on a coincell
Viper-7bah, their $20 thing expired, its $50 min for free international express shipping
Johnsenno concrete plans
Viper-7but they have free standard international shipping
Viper-7seems cheaper :P
synx508I lost my tube of through hole tiny85s, convinced I had used them all I ordered more. then I found it.
Viper-7as for very low power stuff - just get some free samples of XLP PICs from microchip :P
Viper-7nanowatt run ftw
synx508oooh, Rail certified fanless PC
synx508mind you, that probably just makes it good enough for GWR, with its daily signal failures
screwsssdo these things work ??
Viper-7not epic res (like 640x480) but yes, also eww
synx508my GP reckoned that ear cleaning should be avoided, just squirt the shower head in there to remove anything loose. But I'm not a doctor. Just what I was told. Don't mess with it, as almost everything you do makes it worse
ahooyour ignorance i ignore.
Viper-7your ignorance of his ignorance i ignore
Johnseni found lots of stuff back during my cleanup last week
Johnsena bag of jfets to detect ghosts woop
LordCrci found a few oldish mobo's, was thinking of desoldering components, like the power mosfets... it has these "metal box" electrolytic caps, what's the lifetime of those guys? worth keeping or send them to the bin?
DocScrutinizer05LordCrc: you're aware fan controllers are a buck a dozen?
Johnsenno idea
Johnsenru sure they're notinductors?
JohnsenACTION does not know of metal box capacitors :p
LordCrcDocScrutinizer05: got a link to one? needs temp inputs (thermistors) and min 6 pwm fan outputs, and monitoring/programming software
Johnsenlast time i found a mobo full of DIP SRam
DocScrutinizer05ooh, then it's a bit more involved than what you can get for cheap
Johnsenapparently for cache
LordCrcDocScrutinizer05: that's what i found too ;)
LordCrcDocScrutinizer05: also, learning experience
LordCrchttp://it-review.net/uploads/images/Article/2008/asus/ASUS_P5Q_SE_PLUS_motherboard.jpg <-- hires image of one of those mobos
DocScrutinizer05I think 4 PWM out and preprogrammed thermal control to adjustabke target temperature was best I've seen
LordCrcDocScrutinizer05: right... i'd like to monitor temps, and also set adjustable curves (possibly with multiple temp conditions)
Viper-7LordCrc: solid caps, they're not bad
Viper-7should be rated for like 50k hours
Johnsensmd electrolytes
LordCrcViper-7: well these boards have definitely not been running that long
Johnsenor that yageo stuff? those are the inductors
Johnsenhmm nvm they're not smd
LordCrcViper-7: do they degrade gracefully, or is it all fine until they pop? ie, can i desolder and measure if they're good or not?
DocScrutinizer05LordCrc: PWM for fans is in the 100s of Hz range
Johnsenelectrolyte caps die slowly generally, they dry out
Johnsenyou generally cannot see it by eye unless they leak
Viper-7LordCrc: solid electrolyte caps shouldnt leak, or change much in value - they'll just fail open or closed
Johnsenits not something i would recuperate, but thats because i got a set of elcaps :p
LordCrcDocScrutinizer05: actually spec says 25kHz
Viper-7yeah, its annoying how high they went with that
LordCrcViper-7: aaight, well i wouldn't use them for other things than fooling around, prototyping, so should be ok there then as long as i measure them
DocScrutinizer05still not 7.5MHz
Viper-7nah heh, plenty of room :P
LordCrc"PWM Frequency: Target frequency 25 kHz, acceptable operational range 21 kHz to 28 kHz"
DocScrutinizer05factor 10 higher than I remember
LordCrc DocScrutinizer05: only an order of magnitude :P
Viper-7actually im wrong about 7.5MHz, its 9MHz with stock clocks
Viper-7which is actually a little awkward for this, but eh
DocScrutinizer05yeah, I thought "7.6MHz? maybe I should holler"
Viper-7the default APB peripheral clock is 18MHz
Johnseni think the time has come to order esp32
Viper-7with 72MHz core clock
Johnseni'm not sure yet, i'd prefer stm32f4 for what i plan to do but esp32 is half the price
Johnsenjust not sure if all the esp32 memory is available to arduino ide, i dont feel like using the sdk and esp32 memory is not really linearly divided
Johnsenanyway, its just because i need ram, perhaps i should attach spi ram to an F1 or 8266
doublehpa 3 wires 1W device ... i am designing a plug; which wire should be in the middle ? gnd V+ or data ?
Johnsenon the other hand https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Free-shipping-STM32F4-board-STM32F407VET6-STM32-Cortex-M4-development-board-DIY-pin-header/32843484907.html for less than 10 euro it has sdcard slot, flash memory etc etc
Xiongdoublehp Not enough info.
doublehpi am designing home made boards, to connect tons of 1W devices; I am using classic headers male and female. for raspberry pis; I wonder if there is a "best approach", on which wire to put in the middle
XiongThe quick answer is, up to you and it doesn't matter to anyone else. That's only about 75% correct, though.
doublehpfor I2C, I usually just use USB plugs (good number of wires); but this time I want to make things cheaper, and use headers, even if they don't have orientation guides; I will make obvious marking to help
XiongBest practice is to ensure common mates first. If you're using square pin 0.1" headers, you can't.
doublehpdepending on manufacturers ; for I2C and other bus, I have seen pin 1 be either gnd, or v+ ...
doublehpfor example , servomotors in modelism may have all kinds of pinout, depending on brand
XiongWho will be mating and disconnecing? Are there environmental or ESD issues? How many cycles do you design in?
ahoowhat's this screw head called?
XiongThe questions are almost without limit.
Johnseni'm tired of all those devboards having microSD :p
doublehpahoo: I am not aware of any official patented name; some call them triangle
Johnseni need to buy one for my fleaohm already
Johnsenwhile i have plenty of normal sized SDcards
ahooit's not a TRI-WING
doublehptri-wing would seem to be an acceptable name to me
ahooyeah but look: http://www.instructables.com/files/deriv/F3Z/ARLQ/FOWZORNM/F3ZARLQFOWZORNM.MEDIUM.jpg
slothmmm mustard on beetroot could there be any better snack
ahooit's not tri-wing.
tawrpicture looks weird
tawrit's a y-wing i believe
tawrerr "y-type wing" or what ever stupid name they came up with ahoo
doublehphttp://www.irwin.com/uploads/products/large/tri-wing-insert-bits-1118.jpg vs https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/214AAOxyUrZS3Lh2/s-l300.jpg i am aware of this difference ; but I think the second link is a mistake
Viper-7Johnsen: hmm.. that chip is used on some of those quadcopter flight controller boards - i wonder if you could find one of those cheaper
tawrdoublehp: google 'y type wing screw' or similar
tawr"y type screw"
doublehpahoo: I have never seen centered wings in my life like on the second image; I have only met sided wings like my first link
XiongOkay, I have an issue. How can I store a small amount of power... say, 1 Ah... with a durable device? I want a 100 year life.
doublehphttps://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/HTB1OJeaPpXXXXXwXXXXq6xXFXXXG/Triwing-Screwdriver-Repair-Tool-Y-Tip-For-Nintendo-For-Wii-DS-Lite-GameCube-Gameboy.jpg is an other topic, not hwat you sent
Viper-7Xiong: 1Ah is quite a lot for that kind of thing :P
p0g0Xiong: plutonium.
XiongErm, device life. I don't expect it to store power longer than a day or so, between charge and discharge.
doublehpXiong: 1Ah is an amount of energy; it can last 100 years if you use a very little current
doublehpXiong: you probably meant to use 1A during 100y, which is a different question
Xiongdoublehp I misspoke.
tawrdoublehp: ahoo https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0f/TriWing-and-Y-Type-screwdriver-bits-and-screw-heads.jpg
doublehpXiong: you need to know the leakage current of your power source/storage
XiongI want to store energy on the order of an Ah or less.
doublehptawr: shit, you badly hurt me :/ both types in the same set !!!
p0g0Xiong: can you just 'make it as you go along', a small solar cell, a piezio, wind?
XiongLet's say I can solve the many issues of charging, standby, etc. I'm concerned about useful life.
tawryeah, first few results if you google what i recommended lol. my fucking BLENDER had those y-screws
doublehpXiong: define life
tawrbut i'm a fucking stupid idiot who didn't drill, didn't use a flathead screwdriver. oh no. i had to go big. i took a picture, scaled it properly, printed it, glued it to the end of a proper diameter drillbit shank, and ground a bit using a cutoff disk in a rotary tool to make the tool.
XiongThere are many fine battery technologies... that fail in ten years or less. No good.
Xiong100 year design.
tawrlike an hour and a half to take out 3 fucking screws that would have taken 15 seconds to take out using a flathead screwdriver or similar, but i rationalize it to myself by saying "i'll need it in the future!"
XiongYes, annoying. Zero maintenance.
tawri have no clue where it is.
Viper-7eg maxwell k2 boostcaps will last >1 million cycles, but yeah they'll still age negatively beyond the 10 year mark
tawrXiong: that doesn't exist.
Xiongtawr Have you considered drilling them out?
p0g0If you can replenish the chemistry, there are ways to keep producing current over long periods of time.
tawrif you figure it out, make sure to tell every space agency and you'll never have to work a day in your life again
raphais it correct that decreasing the 15k resistor in https://www.dampfradioforum.de/download/file.php?id=21292 would only make the microphone louder up until a certain point, but would then begin to constitute a short between the first transistor's emitter and base?
doublehpXiong: in france, the law requires some devices to have 4h lighting (for public places) that have 12y certifications; they use lead batteries. And they do meet specifications. Even after 5y left aside, and batteries stored at 0V, after 24h or charging, they did provide light for 5h ....
rapha(the volume is supposed to be regulated via the potentiometer labelled R1; unfortunately it's far too quiet)
Viper-7BCAP3000 will do about 1Ah at 2.7V, but are only guaranteed up to 10 years
XiongI'm not being clear. I want storage, not a source. I hope for daily trickle charge.
tgeeky"iboot" which looks to be the boot software for basically all apple devices, is leaked on github
Viper-7if you keep them at room temp and dont abuse them, they should last much longer, but no promises :P
doublehpXiong: but chemistry does not last over 10y, or very hardly; you want to look around memory capacitors, or very large ceramic capacitors. I fear memory capacitors may loose specs over 10-50 years; ceramic won't, if you take care about their weaknesses
XiongMy first thought was a big fat cap but they do fail unexpectedly.
XiongACTION looks
doublehpXiong: ceramic capacitors now have a very good density of energy; but, they must not be exposed to any shock, acceleration, the PCB must not be flexible at all; and device must not be subject to any movement or vibration. Really, they are VERY fragile, much more than we usually mean
Viper-7doublehp: considering he'd need thousands of farads for his 1Ah at an unstated voltage, ehh
XiongI have little experience in this domain. Most of the stuff I built, only had to work until client's check cleared... and allowed for maintenance.
doublehpXiong: but ceramic are now cheap and dense; you can buy 100 units on Ali, of maybe 1mF, for 10 ... so, you can easily assemble a 1F ceramic capacitor for 10-100 . It will have the lowest discharge curve, and absolutely no aging, if you care about mechanical aspects
Viper-7remember 1F is 1 amp second per volt
XiongMinimum aging; I can tolerate moderate leakage. I expect daily charge from photovoltaics.
Viper-7so 1 amp hour is a lot of farads :P
XiongJust a number.
doublehpACTION had forgotten that aspect / definition :'(
XiongI can whittle the power demands and skimp on duty cycle.
XiongI was hoping for a more durable technology than, haha, Li-ion.
Viper-7Xiong: kick it old school
Viper-7pumped water or something :P
Viper-7inefficient, but hey
doublehpXiong: the schematics of some satellites are available on public internet , with full specifications
raphaViper-7: could you take a look at that microphone amp circuit? trying to make it louder but decreasing the potentiometer value hits a limit and decreasing the other resistor's value hits a limit as well (in both cases i believe they then short the circuit out).
doublehp2y ago , a private funding have rebooted a satellite that had not been used for 25y
Viper-7doublehp: with a small fraction of its originally designed battery capacity, sure
doublehpenough to make it work again
Viper-7rapha: shrug, im no amp expert
p0g0Viper-7: I kinda agree, an old tech seems attractive- a closed steam system, a gyro, wet batteries that just need fresh reactants to produce current, something like that.
doublehpa few satelites have a 5y travel time before really starting their missions; when they go to jupiter or around there ...
doublehpDiscovery isn't dead yet
raphaViper-7: but am i correct in assuming that that's what's happening when do decrease both resistor values - that it shorts out the circuit?
doublehpand parts of their specifications are available
Viper-7sounds right
p0g0A lot of the very long run satellites are running on thermionics, heat from a small nuclear pile.
Viper-7hence why you normally use a potentiometer as a voltage divider
Viper-7so the total resistance doesnt change, just the resistance to the tap
doublehpp0g0: we are not talking about the power source, but power intermediate storage
p0g0doublehp: the longevity is what I am talking about.
raphaViper-7: and the 4 diodes that seem to operate in a rectifier configuration, will they have a /minimum/ voltage that they let through? or only the 12V /maximum/ voltage from the zeners?
p0g0100 years is beyonf most anyone's design specs.
tgeekyapple uses dropbox as a place in their process of building ROms: https://github.com/h1x0rz3r0/iBoot/blob/master/tools/rom-release
Viper-7rapha: diodes have a forward voltage, below which they will not conduct yes
doublehpp0g0: french telecommunications public lines are all 50y, in the design
Viper-7why are you asking me all this? ask the channel >.>
Viper-7im watching movies and idly chatting, i havent clicked your link and dont plan to
p0g0doublehp: and that is both a good and bad thing... being stuck with 50 year old tech has it's costs.
raphaViper-7: sorry, didn't mean to intrude
doublehpp0g0: for example https://www.amazon.fr/dp/B0777PHPTY/ref=asc_df_B0777PHPTY49949771/?tag=googshopfr-21&creative=22698&creativeASIN=B0777PHPTY&linkCode=df0&hvdev=c&hvnetw=g&hvqmt= is 50y certified by 3M ... when you buy the original brand
XiongInteresting, +Viper-7. I had not thought of a ceramic as feasible storage.
Viper-7Xiong: i dont believe it is.
Viper-7the biggest MLCC i know is about 0.5mF, you'd need about 6000 of these, probably more
p0g0doublehp: what does the 50 year french telephone wire got to do with making current for 100 years?
doublehpp0g0: our network fails only when technicians did not do their job correctly (i don't have time to tell about what I have seen: white cables laying on a roof exposed to sun; single wires going through a windows, without any insulation ... for a land line ... installed this way by the technician )
p0g0doublehp: ?
XiongI have considered a scheme to pump a working fluid. If there are literally no moving parts, it should be extremely durable, with low leakage. Conversion losses may be excessive.
doublehpp0g0: some companies do very long term design. Intel also does 50y certified CPUs
p0g0it is not easy to pump without moving parts.
p0g0doublehp: what do you use today that is the very same tech as 50 years back... plumbing maybe, what else?
Xiongp0g0 You have the wrong end of it. I plan daily photovoltaic charge of the system. I'm concerned about service life.
p0g0Xiong: well, I wasn't pointing the 50 year stuff at you, but I do get that you indent ot provide charge on a regular basis, you want a long lived system to do that.
Xiongdoublehp Good to know. Obviously no point sending juice to a busted board.
p0g0*intend to
p0g0Something a bit like the ammonia driven refrigerators- a heating/cooling loop that you can get a bit of work out of under the right conditions.
XiongSorry if I was snippy. Just wanted to be clear.
doublehpp0g0: some parts of my house are >50y old
p0g0And all it needs is heat
XiongOr ether... like a dippy bird.
p0g0sure, something that moves mass and makes pressure gradients.
p0g0If you have a decent temperature gradient, I'd think some turbine like rig in the plumbing path of an ammonia/ether/etc system, where you can evaporate and condense well should just work.
XiongAnyway, yes, I've considered mechanical storage. Such Rube Goldberg tech has the disadvantage of lack of serious testing. I thought I'd ask about proven tech... and also, perhaps, to avoid a bad hit from conversion.
doublehpp0g0: I removed in 2013 parts of the electric distribution of my house that were installed before WW2; and were still in use. I also have traces of pre WW1 things, but they were not in use anymore. Parts of my plumbery are >50y. 80% of my walls. And half of my telephony network is >30y.
p0g0The only 100 year old tech I still see in service in these parts lives in museum like places, old grist mills and the like.
Johnsensilly chinese
Johnsenthey used miso2 pin as CS pin for spi3 on board flash ic
Johnsenso i cannot use flash and spi2 at same time
SpeedEvilXiong: NiFe is exceptionally reliable
doublehpp0g0: my electric meter is >40y, going to change it next month (the problematic issue is that the general protection does not include differential; if it had, I would not change it)
SpeedEvilXiong: for good cells
Johnsenthey could have used any of the 100 pins as CS but they chose miso2
Xiongp0g0 That's part of the reason for my project. Sheer longevity will make it... notorious... eventually.
Viper-7Johnsen: theres no alternate pin for miso2 ?
SpeedEvilXiong: also, dry cells work fine at low current
p0g0steam punk to the rescue then...
Johnsenoh ur right
Johnsenactually it is the alternative pin, nevermind
Johnsenthe main miso2 is another pin
raphasoo ... anyone knowledgable about old analog phones?
zap0i know a little
p0g0rapha: I am old enough to have been on party lines... what is the Q?
Johnsenanyway i think i'll order 2, €9.1 isnt a bad price for https://www.aliexpress.com/item/boobies/32843484907.html
zap0rapha, make-break X number of times to send a digit
Viper-7mmm, boobies
p0g0the pulse dial?
Johnsenwhere i live pulse has never been popular, we use dtmf since the beginning
raphap0g0: i've an old W48 where the charcoal microphone wasn't working well anymore so i built a little pcb that fits into its casing using this circuit here: https://www.dampfradioforum.de/download/file.php?id=21292
Johnsenpulse was supported tho, not sure if it still is
zap0rapha; don't be touching the wires when it rings; ring volt/current is enough to make you scream profanities and piss yourself.
p0g0The old mics were pretty simple but lame.
p0g0ring voltage is often 120-140v
raphap0g0: now the circuit works in principle, but is still a bit too low in volume, and when *being* called, also distorted.
p0g0the ring cadence varies by locale a lot.
XiongSpeedEvil, NiFe may only go 30 years. Even 50 is only half my goal... but pretty good. I like the general durability. Thanks for the pointer.
raphazap0: not behind an ATA
SpeedEvilXiong: what are you actually trying to do - I missed it, can yous um up
XiongPerhaps design in depth, multiple technologies.
Viper-71Ah of daily cycling, for 100+ years
raphap0g0: so my Q is, besides lowering both resistors, is there anything i can do? and: if i'm measuring ~2V behind the rectifier diodes, is that not a bit low?
p0g0it is the 100 years without maintenance that is the trick.
XiongI might scale that back to 0.1 Ah. I like to start big.
SpeedEvilLiquid batteries are interesting.
SpeedEvilMolten lithium floating on lithium chloride and other salts, floating on lead.
SpeedEvilAll liquid means there is no wear,
SpeedEvilDoes need 400C and inert atmosphere.
raphazap0: and also i hung on 220V AC enough times as a kid that i've learned eventually to not be touching stuff...
XiongIt's acceptable if the system ages. If capacity in 50 years is, oh, 70% of new, fine. 20% capacity at 100 years, okay.
p0g0rapha: if your phone is so old that it has the flat carbon disc type microphone, my recollection is those never did work well. I really don't know the circuit specs. I'd fake it, find a working pulse dial phone and spec it's microphone or even scam it into the handset and see what happens.
raphaXiong: you're building a nuclear winter shelter?
XiongSpeedEvil I didn't describe the project, only asking about storage.
paulrswhy is it always a winter
Xiongrapha Oh no!
paulrsim looking forward to a nuclear summer
p0g0paulrs: nuclear summers are very short, milliseconds or so.
raphap0g0: perhaps they're called carbon disc microphones in english. it's gone now, anyways, and replaced with that circuit. can you remember what the voltage across the microphone cable should be?
p0g0paulrs: and the sunscreen costs can be large.
paulrsmaybe just stick to a nice game of chess then
raphap0g0: the first mod i did to the phone was to install an MCU-driven circuit that reads the dialling pulses and converts them into DTMF tones. so that part is taken care of already ;)
XiongDon't need enough juice to run a toaster. Just enough to drive a processor... which these days is little enough... drive a piezo for sound, not loud... and perhaps, if I'm within (power) budget, turn on a few leds.
raphacan you break elecret condensor microphones during soldering?
p0g0rapha: gee, I once might have known that... The typical call voltage lies in the 30-80v range iirc. I have an old "Talking Technologies BigMouth" a telco voice rig that has great diagnostics. I might have an ISA motherboard to run one still. I'd get measures from that.
raphap0g0: don't trouble yourself, i just wanted to know the general ballpark figure. thank you!
XiongThanks all for input. I think I have ideas now. Night!
p0g0rapha: OK, I am pretty sure you can track down the ITU specs, and get the #s engineers design around.
Viper-7Xiong: well you can get microcontrollers that run on 50uA, and can track time during sleep to auto wake every so often while using a few hundred nA - and eink displays that use no power at all unless being updated
Viper-7i'd be trying to go more in that direction
p0g0for the voltage levels during different parts of a phone call.
Viper-7if you only have to store like 2mAh, things get much easier :P
p0g0rapha: I will toss in the fact that old rotary dial phones varied a lot in acoustic quality and volume- swapping hand sets across different phones made it clear that both the hand set and the phone proper contributed to that. I have a small coveted set of 1980's era phones that offer good sound quality, volume, and robust survival of the terrible things that used to happen to my phones. The point being that you might swap around old phone parts, and
p0g0 end up with a nice combination that offers volume & quality.
p0g0I guess I shouldn't be surprised that Talking Technologies is still in business, that being outbound demon dialing for phony telemarketers...
tomeaton17Great slack has now dropped support for apple emojis on all devices :( Thats what I really liked about it
password16I did not even notice the difference
password16its emojis , who the hell cares about what style they are?
tomeaton17People with eyes?
tomeaton17just kidding, but I much prefer the apple ones to emoji one
raphap0g0: here's the one i have: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/36/W48_DBP.jpg ... just tried it out on the neighbours' line. seems the problem is mostly with my line somehow as with their line the DIY microphone capsule worked quite well producing acceptable sound quality. the speaker capsule is beyond anything modern phones offer, anyways. crystal clear.
password16i don't even know the difference between the emojis
raphatomeaton17: i wish graphical emojis would just vanish altogether. text ones are all you need and look much better without messing up the text they're part of.
raphaplus they also work for people without (working) eyes
tomeaton17If its done properly it doesnt mess up the text at all
raphai still find them disturbing
raphaevery piece of software should have text vs. graphical emojis as a setting. anything else is torture for those who prefer it the other way around.
password16rapha: lol
tomeaton17You must find the modern age disturbing
MetalsuttonHey guys. I have a consumer question for you all
MetalsuttonLets say you brought a custom LED signage system and paid some big money for it.
MetalsuttonI tried to design the thing as small as possible, but there is only so much configuration you can do with a few pots and buttons on the back of the thing.
stvnthe big big money
Metalsuttonso the options i need to really look at are to have a small lcd screen in the back for having a colour picker/seqence selection/brightness.
password16Metalsutton: and lcd control panel?
MetalsuttonOR. Just go app + wifi only, and dont have any controls on the thing at all. My concern this route is that its always nice to some actual hardware controls. Going wifi only could be problematic.
Metalsuttonsure tiny touch screen maybe.
fujisanthere is a great book about electronics does anyone remember the title?
Metalsuttonin your guys experience, whats the better option here?
p0g0Metalsutton: isn't the wifi solution OK if you can run it in real time looking at the sign?
raphatomeaton17: indeed i do, half of the time.
Metalsuttonim just wondering how hit or miss the implementation can be with arduino + wifi. Because then i need to make sure the app actually works, nothing is more annoying than if it doesnt connect etc
Metalsuttonthis is for like, store displays etc
password16check Mikes Electric videos on how he does LED installation
p0g0metalSuI have been running an ESP/AVR combo for some years now, I am happy with the deal.
password16he gives a shitload of advice on designing custom displays
p0g0Metalsutton: ^
fujisanthe PEN IS mightier than the sword @ stvn
intranickstvn: WHO THE
stvnthe big big money
fujisani just saw the THE-RAPISTS
password16the penis is a sword
intranickstvn: WHO DID IT
MetalsuttonWhats an ESP?
p0g0esspresif systems
p0g0Metalsutton: it is a $3 wifi rig
p0g0Metalsutton: that + jeelabs esp-link or the like, makes a transparent serial bridge over a WPA2 wifi connection.
fujisanhttps://www.audible.com/pd/Bios-Memoirs/Surely-Youre-Joking-Mr-Feynman-Audiobook/B002V5D7IE?ref=a_a_search_c3_lProduct_1_1&pf_rd_p=e81b7c27-6880-467a-b5a7-13cef5d729fe&pf_rd_r=XYS3MVTRNVQJEVH2GVD1& this book is very good and about electronics somewhat just listen to the sample on the page
intranickACTION attempts to wake up
stvnthe big big money
fujisanwhat big money?
fujisanthe more resources you have the less resourceful you become it kills creativity and makes you fat and lazy
password16Hmm , only $400 for a scope delivered
p0g0Metalsutton: You can attach to the avr/esp from any connected LAN once you set up the routing and permissions. Whatever serial IO you wanted on the AVR gets there via the ESP. You can use just the ESPs too, they have fewer GPIO pins tho.
fujisanit 's the same with eating to stay at max health you should always get a little less than you want and need that way the body will use its resourcefulness and it also slows ageing
p0g0fujisan: Cultivate boredom, like Clevinger in Catch-22?
fujisannot familiar with that book
fujisanor show
fujisanim on a challenge to not watch any tv for 1 year
p0g0Joseph Jeller, "Catch-22", well worth the read.
fujisani completed 9 months already
fujisanoh okay thanks for the tip
password16fujisan: you pregnant?
MetalsuttonOk, so rather than flashing the device via wifi, you setup "ports" or some way that the app connects to the esp chip via addresses, and that streams the info into the avr
fujisanyeah with the new me
p0g0fujisan: I have not owned a TV but for a couple of years since 1970...
fujisani also mean not watch them on pc or via the internet no netflix
fujisanno youtube
password16and red tube?
fujisanmy hardest challenge quite literally was nofap on hardmode for 208 days
fujisanin 2014
fujisanalso none of that password16
FauxFuck me, really?
intranickfuck nofap
intranickwhen given the choice, alwaysfap
p0g0Metalsutton: the ESP bridges telnet port 23 to serial IO, the Tx/RX pins on the AVR.
intranickit relieves stress!
p0g0Metalsutton: it is a quick and easy way to make a WPA2 wifi connection to an AVR.
Metalsuttonah nice. ill look at picking up one of those then and start playing arond
fujisani got into nofap because i was heartbroken unrequited love on the upside i did lose 40lbs on nofap
fujisani went from overweight to the right weight and it hasnt come back since
p0g0Metalsutton: I have one bug with ESP-Link, it defaults to dumping some debug data on uart1, you need to push that to uart2 or turn it off ( a 1 time setting on the ESP-Link).
password16fujisan: i agree too much is bad , but I'm not going to quit them all
password16not permenantly
password16I disable all social media on sundays
password16and very minimal internet
p0g0praise the laird
fujisanme neither challenge is for 1 year only i also quit coffee on march 27 2017 and also havent drunk any alcohol for a decade
fujisani did a week without internet a few years ago and no tv at the same time
fujisanthat one is very hard actually
fujisantime slows down to a crawl
p0g0fujisan: I went off coffee for a year, involuntarily, it was a great thing to end that privation.
fujisanyeah i know what you mean beginning was very hard
fujisanbut now i dont even miss it
fujisanalso coffee and chocolate give me pimples
p0g0fujisan: you are getting the hang of life here on the farm, watching folks go thru withdrawal from TV and such, that's old news here.
fujisanso it's better for me
fujisanp0g0: oh okay cool
fujisanthat's a good suggestion btw for me next up i want to avoid going to the default supermarkets and no sugar
p0g0Few people I know still have a book library, and that seems weird to me.
SpeedEvilToday I got a card saying I have to pay customs duty on a https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/fleafpga-ohm-fpga-experimenter-board-arduino#/
SpeedEvilSo i should have it in a couple days likely
SpeedEvilwhich is nice
password16can someone ban fujisan , he willingly gave up coffee
p0g0no no, just give us the coffee!
password16p0g0: good point
p0g0I have a year to make up...
fujisani enjoyed coffee and everyone should keep drinking coffee
fujisanit's good stuff
p0g0No no, it is terrible stuff. All of you should quit immediately.
intranickdo i have to go to work
FauxI give you permission not to.
intranickrofl Faux
fujisanwhich noise cancelling headphones are good for work?
Bird|otherboxfujisan, what sort of work environment
fujisanopen office basically organisation that houses 1200-1500 people
Bird|otherboxI'd suggest one of the ANR headsets pilots use, but that might be overkill/hard to interface with for general office use
fujisanoh okay thanks
fujisanhow much are those?
Bird|otherboxnot cheap, and they aren't exactly meant to be hi-fi either
SpeedEvilfujisan: https://static.boredpanda.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/anti-distraction-helmet-isolator-hugo-gernsback-2.jpg
fujisanwow not a bad idea SpeedEvil :)
fujisanlooks like Vannevar Bush invented it
RoChessSpeedEvil, i love the "with ease" part, cuz that looks not restrictive at all lol
SpeedEvilRoChess: To be fair, if you've got a crying baby in the house...
SopaXorzTaker> How do you call someone who ruins a fully operational (or needing minor repairs) retrocomputer to stick a puny RasPi in it?
FuchikomaNot sure waht that means
listeSopaXorzTaker: sounds like in 90% of the cases those 2 can coexist
FuchikomaOh, "what" do you call a person like that?
SopaXorzTakerliste, well
FuchikomaAn asshole hipster, though that's usually redundant
SopaXorzTakerFuchikoma, well, yes
SopaXorzTakerbut I need something more insulting
SopaXorzTakerI'm going to spam their and all of their family's e-mails with bloody insults
FuchikomaHard to be more insulting than "hipster" without resorting to specific racial slurs...
SpeedEvilSopaXorzTaker: Depends how retro.
SpeedEvilAnd how rare.
SopaXorzTakerSpeedEvil, TRS-80 -- HP 200LX retro
SopaXorzTakerI have seem numerous cases of such assholery
SpeedEvilhttps://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ZX-Spectrum-48K-working-with-original-power-supply/162881107458 - for example
SpeedEvilAt least you're doing something with it rather than throwing it out as is the fate of most.
FuchikomaIf it works don't fuck with it
listeif it doesn't work fix it
FuchikomaOr at least try to
SopaXorzTakerSpeedEvil, why did you link those?
SopaXorzTakerliste, +
SpeedEvilSame era of computers, not being rare
SpeedEvilParts TRS80s are comparable prices.
fujisani was thinking about starting an amateur psychology chatroom where people can give eachother advise
fujisanyou guys think it's a bad idea?
fujisanSpeedEvil: tandy?
TheTrashFun but maybe a bit dangerous
fujisani mean severe cases we can defer to professionals
FuchikomaYou'd have to be crazy to take psych advice from random anonymous people on the internet
fujisani do it all the time
SpeedEvilYou'd have to be crazy to take psych advice from professionals.
FuchikomaThat doesn't contradict ot negate my statement in any way
fujisanrandom anonymous people have helped me a lot
TheTrashEven if it's not about the advice per se, it's good to talk to someone if you're having problems.
fujisanhaha SpeedEvil
Crackireal advice: don't get psych advice from anyone under 40
Crackinot even professionals. they're mental children if they don't have a wrinkle on their face.
SpeedEvilCracki: And a lot of them can be very, very uninformed about certain diseases and conditions. Carefully research what the best research is.
TheTrashThese aren't Freudian times anymore, don't need someone with 150 years of experience to be of help.
SpeedEvilCochrane collaboration meta-analysis of research are a reasonable starting point.
Crackithat too
SpeedEvilFor example, for my condition, a local psych person is likely to prescribe exercise and a variant of CBT that insists I'm not actually ill, because those are the local guidelines.
SpeedEvilIn the US, the guidelines say these are basically useless (as they are)
SpeedEvilSo someone in the US will not get these potentially harmful interventions.
TheTrashMunchhausen syndrome?
SpeedEvilChronic fatigue syndrome.
Crackiso what helps?
SpeedEvilCracki: nothing.
Crackithat's fucked
TheTrashOh.. well yeah, that's kinda nasty and I would say not necessarily psychological.
SpeedEvilIt's a bit like referring to a broken leg as 'wobbly leg syndrome' though.
FuchikomaCocaine. Lots of cocaine.
SpeedEvilTheTrash: It's psychological if the psychs say it's psychological all too often.
coffeeguyi'm surprised no one's said 'weed will fix' yet
FuchikomaI don't think weed is exactly famous for giving you that "get up and go" feeling?
TheTrashSpeedEvil: hm well... US health care is weird.
FuchikomaIt wouldn't be an illness if it was that simple
coffeeguyi was being sarcastic
coffeeguyyou know 'weed fixes everything' attitude
SpeedEvilcoffeeguy: 'nonrefreshing sleep' <key feature. It's not normal fatigue. Imagine if you'd just done a marathon and three hard exams in sequence at every moment when it's bad.
Crackiit's not a bug, it's a ...
TheTrashSpeedEvil: so have you seen a neurologist and/or sleep doctor that sticks sensors on your body while you sleep?
SpeedEvilTheTrash: it's not disturbed sleep. And yes.
MetalsuttonI just watched a bunch of things on an esp
TheTrashLike... videos?
MetalsuttonWhat i dont get is if it acts as an avr, or if i still need to connect it to one
Metalsuttonlike could i have one hooked up to an arduino nano.
TheTrashIt's a standalone microcontroller, and moreso, the Arduino system is ported over to it.
p0g0Metalsutton: there is an arduino port for it
Metalsuttonyeah every video i saw were people using them on their own.
TheTrashYou can hook it up to a nano, but an esp itself is much more powerful than a nano.
p0g0and it can also use it's own firmware and pins to bridge wifi to an AVR MCU.
TheTrashBut if you want, you can use it as a dumb wifi chip.
TheTrashControl it with AT commands from the 'duino.
theorbtwoThe only real advantage to hooking up another microcontroller to an esp is more pins.
p0g0I use it as a slightly intelligent wifi chip, mostly. It has some good code authors tho, if you look around.
Metalsuttonok, so i CAN, it would just be stupid to because it has some decent features already... your basicaly saying it will replace a nano
p0g0the esp7+ might
p0g0the 01 has too few pins brought off the IC
p0g0iirc, you can get maybe 8 GPIO lines.
p0g0On the esp7-12
MetalsuttonI will be controlling neopixels, dont think ill need much lines.
TheTrashYeah but that might be plenty for the use case, or you could use some sort of multiplexer chip.
TheTrashOr a nano! Turn things around
p0g0If you use both, you have two code sets of firmware. In my case the ESP is just an add on to offer the wifi link vs USB/TTL.
p0g0Metalsutton: 3.3v GPIO, the MCU runs at something like 400mhz. Different boards and models offer various combinations of flash memory.
MetalsuttonIve been working on this project for months now. I was about to get ready to goto market.
p0g0Metalsutton: did you read JeeLabs ESP-Link web page?
p0g0Now you want to choose how to best aquire access to installations?
Metalsuttoni havnt read it yet
p0g0The source offers a small web page, JSON, & MQTT as well as the transparent bridge.
MetalsuttonMy plan was always just to have a few dials on the back of the unit.. I went to dumb RGB leds, to Neopixels, and now ive discovered FastLED, so yeah .... my sequence programming options are opening up
MetalsuttonI am wondering if i should launch a non-wifi product, and that would allow me to get some sales under my belt while i work on a wifi version.
p0g0Metalsutton: the 'dials on the back' those are read to yield some number? Can you serialread() that number too?
Metalsuttoncolour shift, speed. etc
RoChesshas anybody in here dealt with Alexa API?
spludstarting without wifi might be good for just prototyping, but if you're _selling_ something, initial reviews that tear you to shreds like "nifty, but WTF - no wifi?" will curb enthusiasm for future releases.
Metalsuttonserialread to display on a small lcd?
spludAND if anyone is interested, as soon as they hear it is all manual, they'll hold off from ordering until the wifi one is available.
MetalsuttonYeah i am thinking that too. haha. sort of torn. So keen for sales, but i want to keep up with the times
p0g0Metalsutton: so a telnet session where you passed those values, that'd work too?
spludMy hot filament tool doesn't have WiFi either, but I didn't make it to sell.
spludLast night, remembered what got be off making the darned thing in the first place - bending plastic.
theorbtwoIf you were in a position where you were almost ready to go to market, then maybe consider what you've already got as mostly a black box and glue an esp on the side?
p0g0The wifi part is pretty easy, given that it is more work and overhead.
Metalsuttonnot ideal. best case scenario would be to have it interact with an app.
p0g0you can get a web page or a telnet session or a USB comm link easily.
p0g0from ESP-Link
spludacrylic in particular. So first thing this morning, fired it up and took a scrap of acrylic and held it above the filament (I'll need to make a "bed" sort of thing I can rest a part on that overhangs the hot wire), and after one misstep, worked wonderfully.
Metalsuttonwebpage on a phone could work.
theorbtwoThat way you can get a product out quicker, and then go on and rewrite the firmware to run on just an esp later, and either quietly change the internals of the project to get a better profit margin, or add in more features, or reduce the price and keep the profit margin.
Metalsuttonbut dont you have to setup the SSID inside the arduino code? How could a customer do that?
p0g0Metalsutton: so, if you carve that up, and make the stuff you send talk to the GPIO pins to your satisfaction...
p0g0Metalsutton: ESP-Link for itself, walks you thru from an open AP that you associate with, then choose security values.
theorbtwoIs it acceptable for your product to act as a wifi ap -- first time setup, you connect to it, and then tell about your ap.
theorbtwoYou can probably find a pre-built library that will do most of the heavy lifting on that.
p0g0You end up with the essid and password to a WPA2 net, and the open one is closed. I think there are some conditions it reopens tho, so read up.
Metalsuttonwow. you can do that?
theorbtwoYou'll want some situations where it reopens -- a factory reset button of some sort.
MetalsuttonThe ESP world has opened up to me tonight
theorbtwoAn esp is pretty powerful.
p0g0It is Quite Hefty, really.
spludI'd sooner have a button to press and hold to bring the device up on a known essid and password (printed on label)
theorbtwoJust So.
MetalsuttonSo the network that is broadcasted from the product is closed, with a password the only the store owner or whatever knows. he connects to that, in order to tell the unit what ssid to connect to for whatever phone or device he wants to interact with it on.
p0g0splud: you can coerce a static essid and pw in the code if you want.
p0g0The ESP can be either station or AP
spludcoming up with wifi with no security is just crap like WPS - anyone nearby sniffing out open APS (or constantly re-running WPS) can hop on.
spludand own your arse.
theorbtwoYou wouldn't need to do an AP with no security, just an AP with *known* security.
p0g0yes, you want to go from power up to securing it without dawdling.
Metalsuttonthese are signs we are talking about .... populated areas.
spludI implemented WiFi on a commercial embedded product (but concurrent AP + station capable). Used the AP mode to provision the device.
theorbtwoMetalsutton: That's why you design it to only be insecure while you are in the middle of setting it up, and only mildly insecure.
p0g0WPA2 is on offer in all modes, you only set an open AP to get to the thing to set it up the first time. That is actually one of the pains, you have to do special things to get into one that you've mis-identified and don't recall the AP it needs to start.
spludPreviously, the device had to be provisioned by having it connected via ethernet to a computer. Laptop was lunky for tech, compared to an app (or even generic web browser) on a mobile device.
p0g0ESP-Link will also flash itself or your AVR over the air if you like that.
theorbtwoIf you are really concerned about security, derive the default password from the MAC.
MetalsuttonOh god. I can already hear the phone ringing off the hook of customers who have forgotten their passworks.
theorbtwoMetalsutton: That's why you print it on the label on the back of the product.
p0g0Make the thing email you an encrypted copy as part of being a supported customer?
Metalsuttonok well. this is all getting over my head at this stage. but im going to copy and paste this for researching later.
spludbut keep that mac-to-password formula uber secret.
spludas insecure as a label with the password on it is, even without it, the physical layer is usually the point at which someone can own you anyway.
p0g0macchanger... once you have any one mac keyed out.
p0g0ah, yeah, bag that thought.
theorbtwoYeah, securing against an attacker that can even briefly physically access your product is a lot harder, and probably not worth the effort.
MetalsuttonIs there a name for a profession that would be able to help with this?
p0g0what, securing your embedded device?
MetalsuttonA person that can take a product concept/prototype and create a software/hardware link, im getting to the point where i myself am running out of my own resources. An electronic engineer?
theorbtwoSuggest that concerned owners might copy down the default password into a safe place and then deface that sticker?
p0g0Metalsutton: I bet that you really are not.
Metalsuttonthat hurts.
theorbtwoI'm pretty sure that you can do this.
p0g0I strongly suspect that you can sort this
FuchikomaTo fully secure your embedded device, I recommend a thorough widlarizing followed by encapsulation in opaque epoxy
p0g0me too
MetalsuttonI dont know what to say .....
spludMetalsutton "embedded engineer".
MetalsuttonThanks guys?!?
theorbtwoThe only secure computer is disconnected from everything. Including power. And then encased in a concrete block.
MetalsuttonYeah well, ive come this far. I'll work on it tomorrow.
p0g0The vector can be secured with WPA2. The rest is up to you.
antionis 220EUR a good deal for a Rigol DS1052E oscope?
FauxThere's one on ebay for about that!
LeoNerdIsn't the DS1052E basically entirely superceded by the 1054Z these days?
LeoNerdThe 1054Z has four channels and twice the screen resolution, not to mention a metric tonne of added analysis features
antionyeah thats why I dont know if its a good deal
FauxI just ordered one of those USB things that are supposed to be €60, but was on sale at €14.
bobo1on1I would not recommend the 1052E these days
bobo1on1unless it's very very cheap
antion220 is pretty cheap i guess
LeoNerdGBP 192; USD 270
LeoNerdRigol.co.uk offering a DS1054Z for GBP308 today
MetalsuttonOk so. last question before i go. For a prototype, where i want only a handful of GPIOs, whats the most popular esp8266 model?
FauxThe lua one.
antionfeather boards are nice
LeoNerdSo yeah; for +50% more cost you can buy a new scope with +100% more channels, +100% more screen space, and much more besides
LeoNerdI'm not sure I'd bother with the 1052E unless you're sure you're fine with that feature set and really can't afford/justify the 1054Z
antionist that price with 150MHz BW ?
LeoNerdI don't think so.
LeoNerdThe inner '05' in the model number stands for 50MHz bandwidth
antioni see 339 EUR for the 50Mhz and 579 EUR for the 100Mhz which the 1052E can do
LeoNerdDS1074Z is 70MHz; 1104Z is 100MHz
antionDS1052E is 50Mhz but easily hackable to 100Mhz
antionMetalsutton: idk what your doing but i like these https://www.adafruit.com/product/2821
spludFaux - I don't understand your response - "the lua one". That
spludis a software load.
splud"popular" and "full featured" are very different beastes by the way.
SopaXorzTakerACTION has a DS1052E bought for $%d
spludthe 12F, is as far as I know the one that exposes the most IO of them all.
FauxI was too lazy to remember the name of "nodemcu", a brand name attached to a load that can run lua and are *everywhere*, and are cheap and okay.
spludI believe nodemcu is more a generic now than an actual brand.
FauxLike anyone buys authentic things anyway. :)
FauxWas greatly amused to see rip-offs of sparkfun's logic level shifters all over ebay. Lots of different rip-offs.
spludBut there are the bare ESP12-x boards, and the dev carrier (which makes them more breadboard friendly).
Faux$3 on sparkfun. Clearly worth undercutting.
spludIf i was developing something and wanted to solder in an ESP (and wasn't dealing with the IC directly), I'd get the 12-F.
spludWhich is what I have here, though I have some of the other versions too.
spludFaux - BOM costs will tank an otherwise viable project.
FauxPeople with BOMs do not buy those little pcbs with a few SMD components stuck on them already, with headers. (I hope.)
spludI worked for a company that lauded saving US$0.05 in BOM, because that was multiplied by _millions_.
spludPeople hoping to fabricate something to sell - at least if they hope to make a profit - need to be concerned about cost.
spludAlso, if said board mates to another board, there is added cost for more realestate.
MetalsuttonThey all seem to be 3.3v only :/ my circuit is 5v
spludthe ESP IC itself is 3V3. You can use level shifters if you need 5V logic on something.
spludOr adapt your circuit to 3V3 <g>
spludWhat is your circuit anyway?
MetalsuttonIts pretty simple. But the LEDs run off 5v, so was having them all run off the same power source.
ScottKevillI'm pretty sure it was confirmed that the ESP8266's I/O's are 5V-tolerant.
p0g0Metalsutton: what MCU do you use now?
splud5V can be input to 3V3, if LDO or switching reg.
Metalsuttoncurrently using a nano
p0g0I just use level shifters.
Metalsuttonso i got 240volts, switching down to 12v 2.5amp, switching again down to 5v 5a, and now you are saying switch down again.... is that healthy all that dropping?
p0g0I only need to shift the 5v->3.3v, the 3.3v->5v can just run as is.
spludNot really a any less than 240 -> 3v3 if you're doing linear.
spludI took that to mean 'efficient'
Metalsuttonyup. im tired.
Metalsuttonim not an electronics guy. if you didnt gather. But im getting better.
spludIn fact, the project I was working on yesterday has a 16V wall adapter (120AC->16VDC), and the uC runs off of 3V3. The 3V3 regulator I have has an absolute maximum input of 15V, so after assembling the circuit, I ended up putting a 12V regulator in front of that - because the 12V part has a max of 35Vin.
spludAnd in my case, the only thing running at 3V3 is the uC, driving the gate on a FET.
spludAh, on that "switching down to 12V 2.5A" and again down to 5V 5A. Are you switching or simple transforming?
Metalsuttonswitchmode both times.
nohopGood morning
spludHave you pushed this configuration above 2.5A at 5V ?
Metalsuttonnot CURRENT-ly
MetalsuttonI plan to maximize it and use the full 5a however.
spludA simple transformer trades voltage and current: halve the voltage, you can derive twice (or nearly so, losses being what they are) the current.
MetalsuttonSo are you saying since I used a switchmode adaptor already, that there is no point to use a switching dc-dc convertor again? I can just use a transformer
spludMy understanding (quite possibly flawed) is that switchmodes don't necessarily allow for an increase in current when stepping down. switchmode regulation is via PWM duty cycle.
archivistflawed, not all is pwm anyway
MetalsuttonIm going to refer you back to my previous comments about me not being an electronics guy. Its 4am in the morning. This worn out sponge can only absorb so much.
spludBuffer caps and such may allow you to slightly increase the current on the stepped-down voltage output, but if not specifically designed for it, I kind of doubt to 2x, or perhaps there will be nasty ripple.
spludYou know what PWM is?
MetalsuttonPulse Wave Modulation.
synx508no then
p0g0width of the wave...
MetalsuttonIts hard to feel like i know so much, but still out of my element in here.
p0g0for the tired and should be in bed crowd...
spludVisualize an AC waveform coming into your first switchmode. There's a bridge rectifier, caps, and a driver IC, a small transformer, a FET, and other fun stuff (hopefully!).
spludthe controller IC monitors the output voltage from the transformer and modulates how long it drives the FET that is inducing a current on the primary. It does this very fast.
gregor2In the datasheet of the VL53L0X the GPIO1-pin is described as "Open drain output". But it only has a maximum rating of 3.6 Volts. My mcu runs with 5 Volts. Is it save to connect a transistor with its collector to the mcu, base to the GPIO1 of the VL53L0X and a pullup to 2.8 Volts and the emitter to ground?
gregor2Will that work?
spludThis results in A lower voltage on the output, that gets averaged out. As a load increases, and the voltage would start to drop, the PWM duty cycle is increased to keep the voltage steady. Load decreases, the PWM decreases.
MetalsuttonHelp that guy out. Im going to bed. Cheers for all the advice tonight guys
spludNot a couple minutes more?
gregor2Of course i will define the pin from the mcu as input.
spludcheater - what's that about super wood?
MetalsuttonHeres my knowledge of my product: I plug the 12v 2.5a adaptor into the wall. I then use the dc-dc converter pluged into that, as i had to use a slightly more effiencent one because using a LM7805 straight on my PCB caused it to heat up too much (bad move), and so now the nano works, and everything works, and my code works, and my leds work.
p0g0heh, he's baack
spludyes, LM78xx is a LINEAR - all the Vin above your Vout is effectively burned off as heat at the same current as your load.
splud12Vin - 5Vout = 7V. If you run 1A load, then you're ALSO burning off 7V @ 1A = 7W
MetalsuttonIf there is some crazy ripple going or its not translating the power ratings effienctly, then i am not seeing it. Maybe i need to invest in a scope and get down to the nitty gritty.
synx508toasty and would need a heatsink or it'd go into thermal protect quickly
spludBut, said linear won't provide MORE current than the input supply.
splud12V @ 2.5A. IF you had a linear capable of 3A, the supply couldn't deliver 3A, even if your circuit is only using 5V @ 3A = 15W, because the regulator is also using 7V @ 3A = 21W.
MetalsuttonI learnt all this the hard way .... Im onto revision 4 of my prototype. haha. Cant beleive how diffrent it is. Ive learnt a lot along the way.
synx508I am close to building my own GPIB->USB adapter because why can't anyone get SRQ right?
Metalsuttonjust to be clear. it is desired for me to have about 5a at the leds. I am using them to power some custom modular lettering, so i can drive bigger letter combinations
archivistsynx508, and they dont use the right interface chips
archivistsynx508, I want one too
spludThe iterative design process can be fun. It is certainly educational. Yes, that can be aggravating, mucking up something and burning up a limited resource.
spludBut if you're smart, those are the things you learn the most from.
synx508archivist, apparently even the NI and Agilent USB adapters don't do SRQ right, how hard can it be? It's not a simple problem to be fair to them, but still. It can't be that hard
splud(not because it's smart to screw something up, but to examine the problem and learn from it rather than ignoring and blindly trying again)
MetalsuttonI got to experience first hand what this infamous "blue smoke" smell was that i kept hearing about.
Metalsuttonsorry i mean "magic smoke"
nohopAnd you'll never stop screwing things up
archivistsynx508, HP/agilent have no excuse they created it!
spludI've got to run and tend to my kids breakfast and school. Later.
synx508archivist, I think part of the problem is that proper HPIB was designed to be quite near to the hardware, you can do great things with super-accurate timing on a commodore PET with it, but latency is much worse in modern computers
MetalsuttonOk, so heres what i have instead of the LM7805: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Replace-LM2596S-DC-DC-24V-12V-To-5V-5A-Step-Down-Power-Supply-Buck-Converter-Adjustable/32803394960.html
synx508Metalsutton, you did something else wrong if you made a 7805 smoke, they're almost indestructible if wired correctly
MetalsuttonI didnt say i made that component smoke :P I said i heated it up.
MetalsuttonI bridged one of my nanos. Thats ok, I brought them in a pack of 10.
synx508Welcome to the ten-pack school of electronics. There's no formal tuition per se, but you get ten chances to pass the exams.
matlandi only burnt arduinos twice
LeoNerdI don't think I've ever burned out an AVR chip
matlandone time got unlucky and the xtal was crap and fell apart
LeoNerdAccidentally popped a GPIO pin on a PIC16 once, years ago
matlandthe other one i big time fucked up
matlandduno exactly what i did but i blasted the ams1117 off
LeoNerdBut AVRs seem to be basically indestructable as far as I can tell
matlandtheyre pretty robust
matlandso are PICs
LeoNerdI've powered them up backwards.. I've shorted GPIOs when in output mode...
matlandheck i ran a pic at 7v for extended time before
matlandit was just happy doing that lol
jfcaronSuppose you found a parts drawer full of 68k chips...how excited should you be?
LeoNerdYou've managed to fit sixty-eight thousand chips in one drawer? :)
jfcaronNo, like a dozen or so. You know what I mean. -_-
archivistjfcaron, a user in here might want them
archivistyou can fix old test equipment with them
n2ACTION tackles Duckle 
kludgejfcaron: Depends what they are, but I always liked the 68k. If you have some 68008s, they are very easy to build with.
n2These MOSFETs are sexy as… http://ee.david.promo/mos72.jpg
n2P-channel parts, metal can with gold legs...
n21.5pf input capacitance
jfcaronWhat are the essentials for making an LED blink program on the 68k? Can I use C, I guess I need some kind of programmign board from my laptop?
n2that is fucking low
n2jfcaron: well, you’d need a storage device and so on
n2so an EEPROM...
n2some adress decoding hardware for it...
n2and so on and so forth
n2like, there aren’t any GPIO pins. There’s address lines and data lines...
jfcaronAnd these are old enough probably no one sells a kit for moderns...
electrobotMad7Scientist just linked to www.youtube.com (Live Views of Starman - YouTube)
Mad7ScientistGo to 1:30m and turn your display gamma way up to 4
Mad7ScientistNow tell me what are the white things out there in space like the Windows starfield screen saver?
n2jfcaron: yes. but it’s a really cool way to learn how computers worked.-
n2Anyway, jfcaron, microcontrollers are much more convenient
n2they have so much integrated, so they are easier to get up and running
n2the MC68000 is more complicated, but a damn cool project
n2the MC68008 is slightly easier because the data-bus is only 8 bits wide
n2i.e. you can drive data with an octal tri-state latch
jfcaronI thought the 68k /was/ a microcontroller..it's just a CPU?
jfcaronOh, yeah, ok nevermind, =p
n2the 68k is an architecture
n2there were many variants
n2but the MC68000 proper is a CPU.
n2After it no longer competed with Intel, it was reformulated into an MCU architecture.
n2but it was originally a CPU, and the architecture named after it
darsiemove.l 4,a6
Inari-darsie: What
darsieMC68000 assembly code. Moves 32 bit from address 4 to register a6.
n268K ASM is beautiful.
n2it’s one of the three assembly languages I actually like.
darsieWhich is the base of the ??? library on Amiga OS.
n268k, VAX and ARM.
jfcaronYeah ok this is way beyond my level: https://hackaday.com/2014/03/05/hackaday-68k-blinking-a-led/
jfcaronIt doesn't help that the blog authors say it's easy, lol.
jfcaronSaying something technical is easy is actually just a way of telling people who find it challenging to not bother trying.
kludgeWell, if you have an MC68901 chip, you get parallel I/O right off the address and data lines.
jfcaronProtip: If you ever are teaching anyone ANYTHING ever, do not tell them it's easy.
kludgeAnd if you're using a 68008 with an 8-bit data bus, you can use all the 8080 and Z-80 I/O chips with no glue needed.
Netham45It shouldn't damage LED bulbs to flicker them quickly, should it?
restorerhow quickly?
Netham45Like, 10-15 times a second.
Netham45For a strobe effect.
restorerprobably depends on the bulb and its power supply
darsieNetham45: Some LED bulbs fade slowly after you turn them off due to internal capacitance.
kludgeYeah, I'd do the strobing after the power supply.
Netham45They're just normal 120v bulbs. I built a RPi interface to control my lights forever ago and I never actually thought to see how fast it would go.
Netham45The RPi interface is based on a phototransistor for on/off so it shouldn't care.
kludgeNetham45: Try it, I suspect they won't go really very fast. Because you're switching on power to a switching supply that is converting 120V to a constant current source for the LEDs, and there's plenty of lag and stuff in that switcher.
kludgeNetham45: My experience is that most of the LED bulbs take hundreds of milliseconds to come on after you flip the switch, which is really annoying if you're used to incandescents.
darsieI recently disassembled one and found a rectifier current limited with a capacitor as power supply. That might take a little to charge the output capacitor, too.
LeoNerdI expect that's the PSU starting up, rather than the LED itself
kludgeLeoNerd: precisely!
LeoNerdLEDs have nanosecond response times; you can use them for fast optocouplied comms
kludgeLeoNerd: right. That's why I suggested he switch after the power supply instead of switching the 120VAC input.
synx508I think the only fast LEDs are the ones without secondary phosphors
Netham45Seems to be handling pretty quick speeds.
Netham45Like, I set .015 between on/off and it looks like that.
darsieNetham45: http://www.bksys.at/bernhard/temp/IMG_0662.JPG
synx508There's no obvious delay on any of our LED light bulbs, except the dimmable one, which if it's dimmed will take a while to decide it has been turned on
kludgeNetham45: that's less than one cycle at 60 Hz.
corecodeanybody know the energy efficiency of LTE transmissions?
corecodei'm wondering whether it is feasible to do full time streaming of audio on solar power
tonsofpcsusing an NPN with a CMOS control input -- will this connect collector to emiter when high and leave no path when low? I'm trying to make an 'inverting' circuit that is tied to ground when input is high and open when input is low.
corecodeupstreaming, not downstreaming
darsiecorecode: A lot of energy doesn't reach the receiving antenna.
corecodedarsie: yea i think a directional antenna is a must
corecodetonsofpcs: yes
tonsofpcscorecode: thank you.
RoChesscorecode, it will always be possible, the question is how large the solar array needs to be :)
corecodetonsofpcs: of remember base resistor and collector resistor
corecodeRoChess: yes
corecodetrying to find numbers
darsiecorecode: You'll need batteries if you stream through the night. Or flywheels etc :).
tonsofpcscorecode: I've got a 1k on the base - do I need one on the collector? I thought you would just do that to pull-high if a voltage was there?
corecodetonsofpcs: well where does the collector go?
tonsofpcsunfortunately the device that I'm 'driving' doesn't have a full schematic in their manual so I'm flying a bit blind.
RoChesscorecode, lot of things are at play, your best bet is to hook an LTE phone up to a charger you can measure current on, and then stream video
corecodeRoChess: that's no indication of how much the transmission needs
corecodei guess if i was to use a phone, it would show the practical limits using that phone
corecodemaybe that's a simple shortcut
corecodebut with a phone i wouldn't know how to connect a directional antenna
RoChesscorecode, well then get like an AD9364 toolbox sample from Analog Devices
RoChessor check their specs
corecodeis that an LTE modem?
LewsThanThreeYou guys and your "slews" again.
Netham45https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FffUPw2dMFQ is what I get when I record my lights flickering as fast as I can on my phone.
electrobotNetham45 just linked to Lights - YouTube
RoChesscorecode, yeah the AD9361 and AD9364 handle LTE
tonsofpcscorecode: I've got a camera that outputs +12V, GND, and "tally" (CMOS - high on, low off) and a monitor that has inputs +12V, GND, and "light" but that light input is "conencted to ground = on" and I want it to light when tally is high.
corecodethat looks like i need to run an SDR
corecodei don't think that's what i want
RoChessNetham45, free disco?
corecodeRoChess: i was more thinking about using a ublox module or so
tonsofpcscorecode: it is feasible to do full time streaming of audio on solar power as long as the sun is up and you have a large enough surface area to capture the sunlight.
tonsofpcsas for a directional antenna, you'd need a phone with an antenna connector of some kind (either on the board or external). They do make those.
Netham45RoChess, fun with an old RPi interface I made.
corecodetonsofpcs: when you measure the "light" line, is there any voltage?
RoChesscorecode, not sure on your purpose, but an LTE phone/tablet can be had cheap these days, so it covers lithium battery for lack of solar, it has camera, storage, and also other means such as wifi/usb/bt to deal with the results
tonsofpcsfrom the monitor, you mean? Let me bench it and try... I haven't powered these not from the camera so I haven't had the pins out.
corecodeRoChess: yes, that's a good idea actually. but what about using a directional antenna?
LewsThanThreeGuys, what PCB creation program do you suggest? EasyEDA's PCB builder is rubbish.
corecodei use kicad
tonsofpcscorecode: you're not really going to save much by going directional, I don't think. Especially since congestion might cause a site to hand you off to another site and your directional antenna will be pointed the wrong way suddenly.
tonsofpcsJust if you plan on using the battery in the phone make sure you get one that can charge while under full load - there's a current limit to the input connection...
RoChesscorecode, well once you designate a cheap phone/tablet to the purpose, i expect it will be demolished from case to repurpose properly, so you can obviously locate/replace the LTE antenna used with any compatible one, directional one included if you want longer range, or add a booster
spluda bit late in here (just returned). darsie - you mention having disassembled an LED bulb and found a rectifier and capacitor. That's the cheap type of LED bulb. More capable ones have proper power supplies in them.
corecodetonsofpcs: if i'm far away, in a place that doesn't have mains power, i think directional antenna gain will be very helpful
LewsThanThreecorecode, thanks, will look into it
tonsofpcsboosters aren't generally needed as the cell site will tell your phone to throttle its radio after they're connected.
RoChesscorecode, and yes, find a phone with QuickSupport so that under high load the solar charge can overcome charge+usage so battery doesn't suffer
corecodeRoChess: thanks, i was going in the wrong direction. i think using a simple lte phone is the best route
RoChesscorecode, QuickCharge i mean
tonsofpcscorecode: For connection, yes. For 24/7 connection you might end up shooting yourself in the foot. There are companies that specialie in this though. They mostly make amplifiers and such for hospitals and ambulances in the 'developed world' but they have other solutions too.
Netham45Hm, these bulbs I have dim, how fast would I need to flicker this to make it think I was just dimming it?
corecodeRoChess: i think i could just parallel charge the lipo battery directly
corecodetonsofpcs: i'd like to stream nature sounds
RoChesscorecode, probably, but even those cheap phones come with a fairly decent charging circuit
corecodeso somewhere from a forest
spludLewsThanThree - I use KiCAD as well. OSHPark also directly supports the kicad_pcb format (so you don't have to export a bunch of different gerbers and have them named just so).
corecodei think using a phone for prototyping is a good idea
LewsThanThreeYea, downloading it now, reading the site, looks nice.
corecodestill would need to know how large a solar cell would have to be
RoChesscorecode, you can go crazy as well, hook up a thermal camera to the phone USB and stream that as well at night
raphaany arguments against attaching 4 devices that each use 5V/~100mA in parallel to one single wallwart that say it's able to supply 5V/1600mA?
spludit's voltage and current.
RoChessrapha, a basic USB splitter can handle that
spludSo long as the power supply isn't USB actively negotiating a charge rate.
corecodeRoChess: yea i guess
corecodeRoChess: but video is much more challenging than audio
corecodeoh, maybe a lte usb stick?
spludThink of all the 12V things in your automobile. There's one 12V battery, and all those things can run off of it in parallel.
corecodethat might need less than a phone?
corecodeor more
corecodebecause they rely on usb power
raphaRoChess: the devices and their wallwarts have these plugs, though: http://www.familymart88.com/312-thickbox_default/dc-5v-2a-power-supply-eu-plug-dc-35mm-135mm-for-ip-camera-wireless-devices.jpg ... and since i'm short on wall sockets and there's no room for extension cords i'm thinking of running them all out of one such wallwart.
raphasplud: nope, no USB
raphaokay, sounds like no objections, nice :-)
spludrapha - then it's simply DC, no negotiation. think of a voltage rail on a breadboard.
RoChessrapha, they got splitters for those cheap
spludTho those are the tiny ones, not the common 2.1mm
tonsofpcscorecode: in a forest, the solar cell would either have to be huge or above the canopy (or both)
tonsofpcscorecode: tested the monitor. 5V is present on the 'light' connection.
RoChessrapha, https://www.amazon.com/HQRP-1-35mm-Splitter-Foscam-Coaster/dp/B00GWNB40O
raphaRoChess: i'm a happy owner of lots and lots of insulating screw joints and also a well-cared-for pair of scissors ;-)
spludtonsofpcs; tether the solar to a weather balloon <g>
tonsofpcscorecode: if I connect that connection straight to grouhd, the light illuminates
tonsofpcssplud: hey, people have done crazier.
RoChessrapha, true, can always DIY it, but for cameras i prefer to spend a couple bucks on a nice splitter myself
raphaRoChess: they're old WiFi routers with the WiFi turned off (acting as ATAs), hence the low power draw. and German amazon want 7,99€ for these 4-way splitters when i can have them for zilch. Plus the stuff is in the basement so noone'll look at it anyways.
tonsofpcsrapha: I'd do two wall warts with diode steering and status LEDs so if one fails you still have power to all of your devices.
raphaoh that's a sweet idea tonsofpcs
raphahow does the diode steering work?
tonsofpcsprotects the wall warts.
raphano, i mean ... what's the circuit diagram for it?
RoChessrapha, heatshrink tubing is very effective then to still make it look presentable
raphaRoChess: lots of that lying around, too :)
tonsofpcsrapha: oh, diode between the + leads of each PSU to the output. Tie -/gnd together.
RoChesstonsofpcs, pretty sure each of his routers has power LED already, so just need the diodes
tonsofpcs+ -->|---*load*---|<-- +
tonsofpcsRoChess: the LEDs aren't for the routers, they're for the supplies so if one fails you know and know which one as the other should take up the whole load if one fails
raphathat's how i imagined it from your words. thanks for the illustration tonsofpcs!
tonsofpcsthe LEDs get put in the outputs of the supplies (with proper resistors)
raphahmm tonsofpcs for the LEDs @5V 200 ohms should do fine, right?
RoChesstonsofpcs, but the router failing to get power would already indirectly indicate that, no?
tonsofpcsrapha: depends on the LED.
RoChessi'm all for more LEDs though :)
raphagot these normal oldschool 5mm lying around in all colors tonsofpcs
tonsofpcsRoChess: it won't. There's two power supplies tied together so that it stays on if one supply fails.
raphawas thinking red ones as they're the least bright
tonsofpcscorecode: so based on that (5V present on "light" input connection of monitor, tie to ground makes the light illuminate, 5V CMOS from source high = should illuminate light), do you think I need the collector resistor or just the base?
spludcurrent limiting resistor would 'less bright' other LEDs...
RoChesstonsofpcs, i thought it was one power supply, i gotcha
tonsofpcsno worries
restorerrapha: as a comparison point, I'm running a clear, straw-hat, 5mm orange LED on just 5mA (mains 120VAC / 22k ohms) and it's plenty bright as an indicator
tonsofpcsnow to figure out how to shove a 2N4401 into a 4-pin XLR connector with a resistor... If only they made "in-line" transistors where base stuck up and collector/emmitter stuck down
spludtonsofpcs - easy enough to do with a TO92 package.
spludliterally, bend the lead up and around the face of the package.
rapharestorer: i'll take that to mean that "200 ohms @ 5V will cause the LED to not blow up quite comfortably"
spludbut an SMD one would be even more compact..
restorerrapha: I'd say you're safe with most LEDs under 20mA, yeah
corecodetonsofpcs: if it is an input, you don't need a collector resistor
LIEROi have a broken leg on a small electrolytic capacitor on the board of a bathroom fan, it apparently broke due to rust
LIEROany tips on how to clean up the rust before soldering it?
restorerare you sure the capacitor hasn't leaked, causing the corrosion?
LIEROI don´t see a leak
synx508leads don't normally corrode through on their own, water vapour alone isn't usually enough
kmcone site recommends gentle brushing with high proof isopropyl, followed by rinsing with deionized water, followed by drying
kmcseems plausible
spludLIERO - I presume it;s disconnected from mains of course?
restorerI dunno, depending on where the capacitor is, I can see it happening with certain weather and shower patterns
spluda little baking soda and an old toothbrush.
restorerand less-than-great design of the fan's electronics
spludOr the tip of one of those foam cored manicure nail files.
matlandLIERO: quite likely it has a small leak even though you don't see it, under UV light on camera might show up better
restorersome flux would help, but if you clean up the rust well, goof flux-core solder should be enough
matlandeither way electrolyte from caps is nasty corrosive shit that will ruin your day if it gets on stuff
restorerpersonally, leak or not, I'd replace the whole capacitor
LIEROwell, I guess I´ll just change it to be extra sure then
kmcI'm reading about a magic sticker you can put on your cellphone that "Reduces magnetic field gradients, defends against changes in your blood profile and lowers your body’s stress levels"
kmconly $50 each wow what a deal
restorerkmc: is it copper?
matlandkmc: we should sell those
restorercopper "things" seem to be popular these days
kmcelectrosmog is the secret enemy
spludfield gradients, blood profile...
matlandACTION offers magnet necklaces for just $79.99
kmc> The legally defined specific absorption rate (SAR) only protects our bodies against the influence of high radio-frequency radiation. BioZen is the only technology in the world that expands this protection to a biological level. This is possible by positively changing the low-frequency electromagnetic fields that are formed.
spludI bet it does, unless you stress over getting ripped off, in which case the device might not perform...
matlandthey will ward off evil EM radiation
matlandand give you vegan powers
kmcbut will they also focus the orgone field
spludWhat I wanna know is, does Elon Musk use it?
restorerhonestly I need more help with my orgone trail
spludthough I guess if he did, they'd be claiming it'll make you wealthy.
kmcit will save you from the government mind control rays of your electric smart meater, too
kmc> It’s time to bring people together to achieve a more wellness lifestyle through technology.
kmcwow what
kmcit's citing a scientist at Caltech who my friend worked with
kmc... doing geology.
kmcwell this is kind of interesting
kmchttps://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC49775/ "Magnetite biomineralization in the human brain."
kmcthat's actually fascinating... they took human brain tissue into the ultra magnetic isolated chamber they usually use for geomagnetic studies
kmcnone of this explains how a wifi signal at -70 dBm could have any health effect
kmchaha and here's where it goes completely off the deep end:
kmc> With its stored quantum information, BIOZEN brings order to the chaos, or rather it prevents chaos from occurring. This has a positive influence on all mobile device emissions.
kmc> Healthy water is characterized by a hexagonal structure. Simulative test results show that the e-smog, which is caused by mobile phones without BioZen, destroys the structure of water.
kmci wish that we could educate people on basic science and critical thinking
MikeeeWhat a horrid analogy of ohms law
kmcinstead we have a society where listening to scientists is "elitist" and they're at best equally credible as your mom's yoga teacher's cousin who believes in chemtrails
karstensragekmc, what makes you think they arent educated in basic science and critical thinking
kmcthe fact that they fall for this shit (I mean the people who buy it)
kmcyou don't have to know anything about radios to look at the website and see that none of their scientific claims have any kind of citation
DocScrutinizer05kmc: there are better sites that actually cite other similar bullshit
DocScrutinizer05but admittedly it's generally not needed
kmci mean it can be tricky, admittedly
DocScrutinizer05nobody (uneducated) checks citations since they are similarly cryptic to them
kmcfake journals can look pretty convincing
jeffreeis there some kind of sensor array that could track the movement of a magnet for the purpose of being acting as a computer mouse replacement?
DocScrutinizer05haha, awesome quit msg ^^^^
jeffreeso, decent resolution
DocScrutinizer05tigershark FTW ;-)
kmcjeffree: a grid of hall effect sensors perhaps
kmcwhy do you want to do it magnetically
jeffreekmc: do you think you could get decent resolution?
kmcI've never heard of this being done
jeffreemagnets are just what came to mind
kmcmagnetic switches sure, for environments where a spark is Not Okay
kmcand there are even hall effect keyboards
jeffreethe idea is a mouse that sends absolute position rather than relative movements to the computer
kmcanyway what is your overall goal & design requirements?
kmclike a drawing tablet?
jeffreeI would think so
jeffreenot familiar though
Crackihow about digitizer
DocScrutinizer05refer capacitive touchscreens, some of them use like only 9 electrodes and interpolation
Crackithere are mice for drawing tablets
DocScrutinizer05could do same with hall sensors
jeffreeso this exists then?
kmcdrawing tablets exist
kmcthey are usually capacitive
DocScrutinizer05yeah, a digitizer would be what comes to mind to avoid a perceived XY problem
DocScrutinizer05kmc: most of them are inductive
kmcresistive touch screens are easy but crappy
Crackijeffree, purpose?
jeffreebasically, trying to make the ideal HID to replace a normal mouse. the main limitation with a mouse for me is that I have to sometimes lift the mouse to 'recalibrate' it's location. I want something where that never happens.
DocScrutinizer05jeffree: go for tablet
DocScrutinizer05dang, I forgot the brandname synonym
kmcwacom are the really good high end ones
Welkinwacom is good
kmcthey can sense the angle and pressure of the pen
Welkinyou can get one for $80
jeffreeDocScrutinizer05: you mean to use it with fingers?
kmcjeffree: how about a trackball
JohnsenACTION feels hurt
DocScrutinizer05fin d wacom digitizer
cheatersplud: it's in the link
Johnsenpost wants €33 costs on my €37 flaohm
Johnsenthats ridiculous
Crackiuse tablet with tablet-mouse
Johnsenbut i'm not gonna deny my fleaohm
Crackitablets usually come with just a pen, but the technology works inside a mouse too
jeffreeis the sensor in a tablet the same as digitizer?
Crackinot the same, it IS a "digitizer"
DocScrutinizer05jeffree: http://www.wacom.com/en/products/pen-tablets
jeffreethat's what I meant
Cracki"digitizer" is a shit name for the technology
Johnsenmy galaxy s3 comes with an s-pen, and it does not work on s2, only on tablets with the extra layer for it
Johnsens3 or galaxy note
Crackiit uses electric fields to transmit power to the pen/mouse/whatever and sense its position
Crackithe pen/mouse can send back state such as buttons, angle, whatever
Johnsengalaxy tab s3, not the phone s3
Crackismartphones work electrostatically
Crackithat's completely passive
Crackitablets don't use static fields
Crackithat is, drawing tablets
Crackilarge smartphones (tablets) sense the capacity of your body
Johnsenthe s-pen is a pen with button on the side, not one of those capacity pens
DocScrutinizer05jeffree: they even have crosshairs "pen"
Crackiand yes, digitizer tech between manufacturers need not be compatible
Johnsenthe tablet has an extra layer on top of it especially for the pen
Crackiunder it
Crackiif it were on top, you wouldn't see the screen
Johnsenye doesnt matter where :p
Crackior do you mean a drawing tablet with capacitive sensing AND electric fields?
Crackithose exist too :P
JohnsenACTION is moody for that €33 post costs for a €37 fleaohm
Johnsenyes a samsung galaxy tab s3
Crackithose suppress the capacitive info (hand contact) when a pen is detected
jeffreeI have considered a pen-style device, I'm not sure, could be good or shit
jeffreethose wacom things are probably too expensive
Crackidrawing tablet with a mouse then
Cracki100 bucks perhaps, or less
Johnseni got it to draw schematics etc on it besides normal tablet use (youtube and surfing)
Crackidrawing tablets exist without screen. that's how they were made initially
jeffreebut one thing is, I either need a relatively small surface, or the ability to map a small portion of the surface to my screen, I only want to move a mouse as far as I can without lifting my wrist
Welkinonly some wacom are expensive
Johnsenwe had one in the 90s on a 68k macintosh
spludCracki - you mean like Wacom? I never knew.
Crackiyes, wacom
Welkinmine was $100
Crackistating the obvious here, in case it's not
Welkinyou can get it for $80 though
spludI have a huge one somewhere, was serial though.
spludI have a little USB "bamboo" one here, though not connected at the moment.
Crackiand modern digitizer tech has enough resolution such that you can map a square inch or less to the full screen and still get decent resolution
Welkinbamboo was replaced with intuous, which is better
jeffreethe one I saw was 500, need to look more
jeffreeCracki: nice
spludand now it is.
Crackior perhaps you just switch of mouse acceleration
Welkinthere, $80
Crackithat's the single source of "displacement" people never understand
spludIntuos existed concurrent to Bamboo.
Cracki*switch off
spludI don't have big monitors so I can stare down at the digitizer.
jeffreeCracki: you mean the tendency of the mouse to need to be lifted?
spludThat's why I use a trackball/
Crackimouse acceleration causes the same distance moved *fast* to turn into more pixels than the same distance moved slowly
jeffreeCracki: this also comes from moving the mouse at the edge of screen
Crackiafaik on osx you can't switch that off, so those people have no clue they're suffering
Crackioh well don't do that then :P
jeffreeit will probably happen no matter what
MiyuMacOS == suffering
WelkinSmokinGrunts: programming what?
jeffreefor example: I am using gnome where you can put the mouse pointer in the upper-left corner to open an app overview
Welkinuse a tiling window manager
Welkinno mouse required
jeffreein my experience, keyboard navigation is shit in most cases, unfortunately
Welkinyou just haven't used it enough
jeffreebut, I've never used a tiling window manager
Welkinof course, a mouse is pretty much required for the browser
jeffreeI've been trying to improve things on that front too, default color themes don't seem to care if I can easily tell what screen item is selected. everything sucks
Welkinit takes time to get a tiling wm set up best for you
Welkinbut once you do, it is great
jeffreeif I am spending any time scanning my eyes across the screen to see, that is a no go
Welkinand going back to a non-tiling wm that requires a mouse feels ridiculously slow and tedious
Welkinjust have to set up your keyboard shortcuts properly
tempateHello. I was wondering what the best option for writing schematics was. Can anyone help me out?
WelkinI open applications using a hotkey like Super+Space and then type in the first few letters of the app name, and hit enter
WelkinI do that on macos though too
jeffreeI do the same
jeffreeI just want computer interfaces to be lightning fast, because why accept anything else
DocScrutinizer05project mental note: patch the linux mouse driver so it keeps "internal" (opaque) virtual mouse pointer position outside of actual display, so when you move mouse 10 inches beyond right edge, you need to move mouse left 10 inches before cursor starts moving left again
DocScrutinizer05gers nasty since that's not how the pointer API works
jeffreeinteresting, didn't know that's possible
jeffreenote: I'm no coder
jeffreebasically, any time I think of a solution to a problem, I figure it must already be solved somewhere because I'm not that clever
jeffreeso maybe I just need to find it
Crackihaha good luck getting the pointer back into screen space
jeffreeoh shit, hahaha
Crackiit could have fucked off into infinity
jeffreeactually that reminds me!
CrackiCAD users have that problem with their models, which is why they all have a "fit view" hotkey
DocScrutinizer05(API) needs absolute mode for pointer device, instead relative. Should be feasible
jeffreewhen I was a little kid in grade school, they had an old mac, and that is exactly the mental model I had for how the mouse pointer works, if it goes off screen it might get list
DocScrutinizer05Cracki: needs a "init to 0,0" key then
Crackithat's what I said
DocScrutinizer05yep, you did
jeffreeI actually experimented yesterday, xdotool easily moves the mouse pointer wherever you want, I considered mapping that to mouse key shortcut
DocScrutinizer05jeffree: xdotool is awesome
jeffreeyep, though I don't think it presently works with wayland
DocScrutinizer05It helped me out of a pinch several times, e.g. with kicad missing hotkeys for some operations
DocScrutinizer05WHYLAND ohnoes!!!
DocScrutinizer05hi azonenberg
jeffreeactually, I think mouse part works but not keystrokes
DocScrutinizer05awayland can get lost in a dark place until it supports *all* xtools incl VNC and x-forwarding
spludWhy not just have a virtual desktop - the mouse doesn't even know it's offscreen.
spludI hate those screen modes on some systems where the desktop size exceeds the display capability, so the screen pans around.
spludSo, help me out with ideas for the hot wire driver.
splud(which is really just a trivial PWM).
spludobvious (to me) uses: wire insulation stripper. acrylic bender. foam cutter. All of these tested and functional.
spludless common uses (but applicable to me nonetheless): beekeeping wax foundation wire setter (heats standard stainless wire to melt into centre of beeswax foundation), glass cutline heater for cutting bottles. synthetic rope/cord cutter and anti-fray fuser.
spludI have dedicated devices for two of those functions already.
g0zyou keep bees splud?
SmokinGruntsWelkin firmware for my WSN chips
spludCould make a very localized heater for setting acrylic paints. (say when I'm infilling control panel legends on laser cut acrylic). Think low power hot air tool.
spludg0z - yes. Also served as former executive of the beekeeper's association here.
jeffreeCracki: did you mean a special kind of mouse?
g0zI know a couple bee people. probably a hipster.
DocScrutinizer05splud: what do you want? a high current driver with somewhat constant/controlled current?
Crackithe manufacturer of the drawing tablet will offer compatible mice (or just one mouse)
jeffreeyou don't mean pen mouse?
spludDocScrutinizer05 - want? I constructed a little PWM driver specificall for driving a kanthal/nichrome wire for something, but trying to brainstorm what else it'd be useful for.
spludGenerally in the context of a hot wire.
kmcif you could imagine the ideal programming language for embedded programming, what would it be?
spludSupplying it with an old 16V 3.36A laptop power brick.
kmcI refuse to accept "C" as an answer, it needs some cleanup at least
spludkmc - assembler <g>
kmcACTION rolls eyes
spludYOU asked.
DocScrutinizer05splud: maybe unfreezing water pipes? but that usecase is probably a magnitude beyond your driver
jeffreeok, I see they exist on ebay
spludI don't have too much of a freeze problem where I'm at. Also, the wire would need to be insulated - kanthal and nichrome are (afaik) always bare wire.
g0zassembler isn't a language I think you mean assembly.
spludThough I need to locate some good fibreglass type wire insulation.
DocScrutinizer05splud: those critters work directly on the steel pipes
spludassembly language, yes. assembler is the 'compiler' of sorts.
DocScrutinizer05mucho ampere
mrdatainsulated where
kmcassembler? but I just met her!
kmc...I'll see myself out
spludDocScrutinizer05 - the steel pipe (or copper, here) would be a path for conduction.
mrdataaround outside of the heateer?
spludThough one could wrap the steel pipe with silicone wrap, then wind the kanthal , then wrap insulator around that.
DocScrutinizer05splud: I sense a misconception. Let me rephrase: a water pipe unfreezer sends current into the steel pipe itself, using it as "heat wire"
spludYea, not what I'm after. There are heater wraps for doing that sort of thing though.
kmcwouldn't you need huge current
kmcbecause pipe is thick
DocScrutinizer05difficult to apply those after the pipe been covered by plaster
DocScrutinizer05kmc: extreme current
kmcbrb hooking an arc welder to my bathroom faucet
spludSeems kinda questionable to run current through your metal plumbing, which is often a ground...
kmc09:51 < Welkin> of course, a mouse is pretty much required for the browser
mrdataplaster insulates, somewhat
kmc(vimperator is actually not easy to use)
bongofuryuh what
spludIn real freezy places, exterior faucets have these long shafts for the handle, so that the water is actually shut off well inside the structure (were it aught to be above freezing).
bongofuryheat tape does not conduct electricity into plumbing
electrobotDocScrutinizer05 just linked to ixquick-proxy.com
spludbongofury - heat tape doesn't - DocScrutinizer05 is talking about running current into the pipe (as in dead short). No doubt, DC.
bongofurywhy is this even being considered
n2ACTION smacks DocScrutinizer05 with http://ee.david.promo/mos72.jpg
n2gold leads...
spludI was soliciting ideas for what one might use a PWM wire element driver for.
n21.5pF input capacitance...
n2separate substrate terminal...
n2ACTION is having a party
spludThat link from DocScrutinizer05 lookls like an overpriced battery charger.
n2I wonder why the leads are gold...
n2is it just good conduction and no oxidation?
DocScrutinizer05n2: awesome precious little critter
n2DocScrutinizer05: and very cheap...
n2like, sub-euro a pop
n2in a TO-72 can - never had a transistor in that outline before
n2it’s very tiny, but very sexy
n2gold alloy case, gold leads
n2its something as comparatively rare as a high performance amplifier pMOSFET :-P
n2it’ll do switching well, but it has good enough performance to be a nice linear amplifier
n2so i’m considering kicking out the first nJFET+BJT in my germanium amp...
n2and use one of ‘em for both buffering and voltage gain :-P
n2they look as sexy as the germanium metal can parts :-D
n2so i wouldn’t be ashamed to put them in a visible place along with the small Ge ones :-P
HighInBCif it looks good, show it off
spludDocScrutinizer05 - wow, about halfway down the instructions for that "icebreaker" pipe heater, they go into "disconnect all ground at either end of the electrical wiring system" and "disconnect all appliances to prevent overheating and blown fuses." Followed by "position the Icebreaker 350 in a convenient location..."
n2Glittery gold
n2and shiny metal cans
spludfecking disconnecting everything in my house sounds rather inconvenient, so I may as well put the device itself in a gawdawful place just to top things off..
jaggzwhat's really on the Tesla roadster?
jaggzsurely they put all sorts of equipment
spludmetal cans? Are you talking about Madonna again?
bongofuryjaggz, nope
bongofurypretty dumb, eh?
DocScrutinizer05splud: the instructions are for idiots
bongofuryElon kinda sucks
spludElon sucks billions more than you do.
bongofuryhis reaction to workers union was "nah, but how about some frozen yogurt"
DocScrutinizer05it's basically just a trafo (+ rectifier?) providing 5V@375A
spludAnd sucks into space.
spludunions blow.
corecodei don't quite know what to make of unions
bongofuryUnions are necessary in capitalism
spludthey are NOT good for business, and they are not actually good for workers.
corecodeif you don't like to work there, don't work there
spludYou'd think they're great for workers, but they aren't.
spludUnions are out to serve the union management - who are not workers.
corecodethey're real bad for prospective workers
jaggznice shot
bongofuryUnions serve workers
electrobotjaggz just linked to 🔴 LIVE: Starman Driving in Space after Successful Heavy Falcon Launch SpaceX Real-time Updates - YouTube
DocScrutinizer05splud: what they refer to a potential common, which must not create loops on pipes
n2splud: now /THAT/ depends on where you’re talking.
bongofuryUnions also were apparently the only reason people got raises
spludunions made sense before OSHA.
bongofuryHow many OSHA inspectors are there for your state?
bongofury... right
corecodeelectrobot: lol live. all these people copying videos
n2splud: OSHA is, now, of course being gutted
n2losing its workforce quickly...
DocScrutinizer05splud: obviously you should remove all "GROUND connections" from appliances to water pipes
n2without any replacement hires..
bongofury"If you can't find a job that pays a living wage, it's YOUR fault" is some incredible neoliberal bullshit
spludbongofury - I don't know, but I've worked at places that had inspections.
corecodebongofury: no, it's not your fault
corecodebut whose fault is it?
bongofuryThat's why Unions were created, corecode
bongofurycollective bargaining
bongofurybasic fucking life safety
spludAnd of course, people can communicate issues if there are any. Unions and jobs where your life was at stake for a company that'd cut of air pumps to save money in a mine made sense.
corecodeah sure
n2ACTION is going to sit this one out, even though the chamber of commerce line is being spouted nauseously
corecodego and organize
n2Of course, corporations don’t form interest groups
jaggzsplud, balance is key
n2to petition politicians to not increase the minimum wage
n2they would never do such a thing
bongofuryA lot of people have never even heard of the Triangle Shirtwaist fire that killed 146 garment workers – 123 women and 23 men – who died from the fire, smoke inhalation, or falling or jumping to their deaths
spludBut collective bargaining - keeping on tossers and paying them more, having X union supervisors to oversee work by 2x as many people as necessary to do it? BS.
kmchow have people not heard of that
jaggzyou work somewhere.. it's not so black and white that you can just go get a job.. you've often invested your life and energy..
n2splud: just because americans haven’t managed to create good unions
n2doesn’t mean it hasn’t happened elsewhere in the world.
spludThey are crooked unions here.
SopaXorzTakerWhat prevents me from putting a couple of electrodes in a glass tube, evacuating it to about 0.1 atm and applying high voltage?
bongofurysplud - Union inefficiencies don't make Unions worthless. Or did you think Management was running a penny-tight operation? LOL
SopaXorzTakerDIY nixies, no?
n2America has a unique number of failures to create institutions that work everywhere else
kmcSopaXorzTaker: I won't stop you
kmcisn't a Nixie a gas discharge tube
spludPublic transit, hospitals, police - this sort of stuff REALLY shouldn't have unions.
kmci.e. it contains neon
bongofury"Management isn't crooked" said the Wells Fargo executive
corecodesplud: no?
corecodesplud: why not?
kmcpolice unions are the fucking worst
bongofurysplud thos are where they are needed most
bongofuryPolice unions are just mafia, though
bongofury#1 reason why killing black people gets you PTO
corecodeseems a very unprincipled stance
bongofurythey have it set up that way
corecodeif you are for some unions, but against others
bongofurycorecode how much do you know about police unions?
spludA legitimate police union would toss any dirty cop under the bus and be done with it. But it's ALWAYS a blue line.
kmcbongofury: yep
DocScrutinizer05kmc: of course Nixie contain Ne
bongofuryDid you know they pay members money to troll victims of police violence
corecodebongofury: nothing. you said unions
corecodehow can one be bad and one be good?
corecodeas a concept
bongofurycorecode - explain this image: http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.2051620.1419051187!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/article_750/rally.jpg
corecodei can't
DocScrutinizer05kmc: otherwise they were pointless broken electron tubes ;-)
spludAnother issue with unions: if it's a "union shop", an independant can't come work. YOU are forced to join the union and pay them dues.
bongofuryThen you need to do more research on police unions
electrobotSopaXorzTaker just linked to www.youtube.com (How to make a plasma ball - YouTube)
spluder, WTF?
SopaXorzTakerDarwin award?
corecodei'm asking about the principle to decide which union is good and which is bad
SopaXorzTaker(guy literally holding MOT wires in hands)
corecodesplud: yea that is pretty bad
SopaXorzTaker(not NSFW)
bongofurycorecode - workers unions vs police unions, two very different things
spludSopaXorzTaker - there's videos of tards operating microwave ovens stripped from their enclosure to light up florescent tubes..
kmchow the fuck could it be the case that all unions have to be good or all unions are bad? isn't there variance like with any other kind of organization??
corecodebongofury: aren't policemen also workers?
corecodekmc: individually yes, of course, but conceptually, no
bongofurydo you really need me to explain to you how police are different from citizens?
spludunion is union. OUR rights vs. YOUR rights.
kmccorecode: well go ahead and live in fantasy land where everyone's altruistic and people don't act according to incentive structures
SopaXorzTakersplud, I think we need a PSA here
corecodehow are policemen, in their capacity as employees, different from, say, DMV clerks or MDs working in a hospital?
kmcbecause they have the power to kill
corecodekmc: huh what?
spludSopaXorzTaker - nah, the idjuts that do that NEED to be out of the gene pool.
corecodekmc: so do MDs in an emergency room
kmcand police unions CONSISTENTLY protect them from any consequences of misusing that power
kmcyou're being so incredibly dense here
bongofurycorecode - they murder people with impunity? They can legally rob anyone they want?
kmcACTION wanders off
corecodeisn't that a problem of the laws?
bongofuryAre those "ways they are different" enough to you?
kmclol no
spludI have the power to kill as well. I'm just a lot more likely to go to jail if I do.
jaggzsilly pit of argument
kmcpolice can shoot an unarmed man running away, on camera, then gloat about it
corecodei don't see why a policeman shouldn't have the right to be represented towards their employer
kmcand no consequences
bongofury"Gosh if we just had no corrupt law enforcement, police would be just like everybody else"
kmcit's already illegal to murder people
kmcbut it doesn't matter
kmcthey know the system and the union protects them
bongofurythats not what police unions do, corecode
raynoldahh it's a wonderful day
SopaXorzTakersplud, showing himself holding MOT output in bare hands should be the reason so many people are dying in attempt to recreate MOT experiments
jaggzpolice != legal system either
corecodebongofury: yea clearly they do more
SopaXorzTakerthere were some teenagers killed IIRC
spludVersus say, a cop who can shoot someone point blank in the back with several other cops holding the guy down and go "gee, I thought it was my Taser" as if.
corecodebut is that a function of being a union
jaggzSopaXorzTaker, in irc?
corecodeor would it be the same way without being a union?
bongofurytake a gander
corecodethey're police lobbyists
spludSopaXorzTaker - and again, if they're all so fecking STOOPID, they need to be excluded from playing in the gene pool.
jaggzACTION esplodes.
SopaXorzTakerjaggz, if I recall correctly
bongofuryCops regularly plant drugs on innocent people, and regularly murder unarmed people, then plant fake guns on the corpses.
CasperACTION hoses down the pieces down the drain, and let the sewer rats deal with it
bongofuryPolice Unions develop and then defend these methods
corecodebongofury: a great society you have there
bongofuryThose aren't "worker protections"
spludWell, there's also the obvious problem that the legal system can't easily go after a cop for being bad, because that opens up the floodgates for impropriety on pretty much EVERY case the cop worked on previously.
bongofuryThey're corrupt assholes
kmccops can also steal any property without cause, then you have to sue to get it back
kmc"civil forfeiture"
corecodeyou think this wouldn't exist if unions didn't exist?
kmcobviously our new attorney general is in favor
corecodethen there would be a policemen's interest association doing the same
bongofuryPut it this way, corecode: the Carpenter's Union isn't in the business of coming up with ways to rob and murder people, then defend their members when they follow the script. Police Unions are.
kmcthe police are the biggest, meanest gang in town
corecodebut you're conflating two concepts that are in unison there
corecodei like the police here
corecodethey're very friendly
corecodeand helpful
bongofuryI hope this helps disambiguate why being against FOPs is logically consistent with being pro-Union
spludAn, but I see unions here PICKET businesses that choose to conduct business with non-union independent shops.
Osirus126kmc: straight up dude. my friend was in an accident while driving and they took his dash cam and used it against him in court. he still never got the fuckin thing back
corecodebongofury: what is FOP?
bongofuryFraternal Order of Police
corecodewhat's that
kmcif you're pulled over and you have cash in your car then you're obviously dealing drugs and they will just take it
spludLike, business has the right to do business with whoever can do the job on their budget and terms. Don't win? Stand out front and picket. That's the image of unions. Sore fucking losers.
bongofuryJUSTIN FENTON: It ranged from illegal tactics used to stop and search people on the streets to high-stakes robberies where they would identify big-time drug dealers, put illegal GPS trackers on their cars and break into their homes and steal money.
Osirus126not cash
Osirus126video recorder
kmcthe 4th amendment is so completely shredded :(
corecodekmc: maybe that law needs to be repealed?
kmccorecode: I'm not really arguing about unions anymore, just ranting about how the cops suck
kmcbut I think unions are part of the problem
bongofurysplud why do unions work in other countries?
corecodekmc: i can tell
spludbongofury - possibly due to fundamental differences in labour laws elsewhere.
corecodekmc: i think the problem lies elsewhere. maybe within the group that claims to speak for policement
Osirus126if you have a dashcam in your car the cops can use it against you even tho it is your own personal property
corecodebut not the concept of a union as collective bargaining tool for workers
spludAre some of those "elsewhere" countries more socialist?
bongofuryWhat labor laws should be unchained to make Unions more effective?
DocScrutinizer05that plasma ball stuff reminded me of a pet project I still want to do eventually: DIY HeNe "electron flash" mode tube laser booster driven by a https://www.laserdiodesource.com/laser-diode-product-page/633nm-100mW-TO-can-QPHOTONICS
corecodeallow the employers to hire non-union people
SopaXorzTakersplud, kmc: what if they're just clueless and aren't aware of the dangers of high voltage?
SopaXorzTaker"Ooh, cool experiment without disclaimers! Let's try it at home!"
spludI don't want more effective unions. They should be gone. Unions also dip into member dues and use them to support certain political candidates (who might claim to be more pro for that union's interests, but not necessarily aligned with the views of any given member of the union - whose money is being used to support the candidate or policy)
DocScrutinizer05the nice thing about laser boosters: they are relatively simple aiui
tawrargh lets not do this lol
bongofurysplud, why did VW management urge workers in Tennessee to form a Union when they were building their new plant?
spludSopaXorzTaker - There are a LOT OF MORONS out there, and more protections and disclaimers to protect them from their own stupidity isn't the solution. Breeding out stupidity is.
spludLike the tide pod challenge.
SopaXorzTakersplud, well, I support the tide pod challenge
bongofuryif you think you can "breed out stupidity" you haven't seen much of the USA
SopaXorzTakerbecause eating something glowing with "not edible" labels is just plainly stupid and those idiots totally deserve it
bongofuryStupidity can only be decreased by education
spludbongofury - Yes, sadly, breeding is one of the things stupid people seem to manage to do well.
SopaXorzTakerbut if I have no idea that what I'm experimenting with is dangerous (like those scientists who discovered X-rays, radiation, etc)
bongofuryWell, there goes your entire worldview, splud
spludSopaXorzTaker - that's on the experimenter to perform due dilligence.
spludSo, no other uses for hot wire/driver ?
SopaXorzTakerAnnouncing the "go-lick-a-socket" challenge
CircadianRebelsplud, styrofoam cutter?
SopaXorzTakerelectrocute yourself for dubious points!
spludfoam cutter already on the list.
spludNot specifically styrofoam tho. I usea a 12V automotive battery charger to quickly cut up some foam insulation panels for my workshop office last year. A LOT less messy than using a knife.
CircadianRebelstyro is just the only kind I knew it would work on for sure
CircadianRebeldunno if it works with EVA or not
kmcACTION has an aliexpress Problem
kmcas in I keep ordering shit and then losing it before I get around to using it
kmcACTION tries to remember why she ordered like a hundred 50W power resistors
mrdataif you have a hundred, you wont lose them
LordCrcis there something like this analog multiplexer which can handle 12v and has lower on resistance? or should i just build one using discrete mosfets?
LordCrci only need it unidirectional (multiple inputs, one output)
spludkmc - get organized.
spludI now print out sheets of barcode tags. When I receive stuff, I write a basic description of the item and move it into a plastic zip pouch with the tag. that tag ID goes into spreadsheet/db with original order info.
spludtransistors into transistor bin, resistors in with resistors, etc.
SpeedEvilsplud: I do wish someone would make nice serialised plastic tags so I diddn't have to try to print them
spludI used to keep a lot of the received stuff in the original mailer bag (because that had a tracking number that associated it with the original order info), but that got bulky, and some parcels had items belonging to different categories.
corecodeLordCrc: lower than?
mrdatai just write on masking tape with a sharpie
LordCrccorecode: 5 ohms, though mostly interested in higher voltage
spludSpeedEvil - you can laminate a printed sheet <g>
corecodeLordCrc: why do you care about the resistance?
DocScrutinizer05kmc: makes for a nice 5kW heater, no?
spludIf I have multiples of some item and one batch starts having issues, I know which vendor I sourced it from.
SpeedEvilsplud: yes, I can, but then they're moisture sensitive and I need to cut them
linuxthefishhello, I need some help with an electronics problem! please can you help me pick between 1 or 2, which number should I pick?
spludToo often, I don't use ICs right away...
SpeedEvillinuxthefish: die.
LordCrccorecode: i want to put this in front of an adc, guess i could put an opamp before every input to the swich but...
SpeedEvillinuxthefish: Or a coin.
linuxthefishSpeedEvil I don't want to die :(
SpeedEvillinuxthefish: I mean take a dice and use it.
spludSpeedEvil - you mean will delaminate around the perimeter of the laminate+paper sandwich?
linuxthefisho whoops sorry
SpeedEvilEvens=1, ...
SpeedEvilsplud: No.
corecodeLordCrc: adc input impedance is in the kOhm range
corecodei don't think 5 ohms will matter at all
SpeedEvilsplud: any moisture causes it to wick in the middle and destroy the thing
spludA laminate label printer is another solition.
corecodeLordCrc: do you want to power it from 5V?
corecodeor from 12V?
spludSpeedEvil - if you take a paper and laminate it - with the laminate extending beyond the edges of the paper, is this a problem you have?
SpeedEvil!die 2
corecodeand, what kind of adc runs at 12V
SpeedEvilsplud: no, that works, but it involves cutting it into tiny bits and then laminating without ...
tonsofpcscorecode: that transistor magic is working great. cheers :)
spludYes, was going to say, print, cut, lay out, laminate, cut again.
spludI've done that for plant identification in the garden.
corecodetonsofpcs: it's not magic
spludBut in past few years, started going with cut pieces of EMT with wooden laser cut labels riveted to them...
LordCrccorecode: ... yeah time to go home and sleep it seems, thanks :)
tonsofpcscorecode: any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.
SpeedEvilsplud: copper tape, written using a pointy marker can work well for that
tonsofpcsthat said, you're right, this is for TV not FM. FM is F'n Magic. :)
corecodeLordCrc: 4066 or 4061?
corecodetonsofpcs: no
LordCrccorecode: ?
DocScrutinizer05!math rnd(2)
GigsDocScrutinizer05: rnd(2) =
corecodemagic is illusion and slight of hand
corecodeLordCrc: that's the part numbers
DocScrutinizer05!math rand(2)
GigsDocScrutinizer05: rand(2) =
LewsThanThreeMost of it ;)
LordCrccorecode: ah
spludOoh, product idea: electronic (vape-like) incense burner...
corecodesplud: uhm
corecodedoesn't that exist?
Loshkisplud: been done, I think
genii"Glade plugins"
spludNot the hot oil fragrance things.
spludActual smoke.
spludIncense sticks with ash all over. <g.
LordCrccorecode: thanks, those look interesting
spludHeh, I picked up a tube of 4066 about a month ago.
_habnabitnot sure if this channel is too low-level for embedded stuff.. is there maybe a more specific channel to ask about configuring atmel ATSAMD21G18A processor registers/peripherals
kmcwe do embedded
_habnabitoh okay cool
kmcthough I know nothing about that particular MCU
_habnabitwell, i can't figure out how to run TCC0, like, at all. would like to set it in NPWM mode, and maybe this is specific to the initialization arduino does before i get to this part of the program, but as soon as i set the TCC0's CC0 register, it stays in SYNCBUSY forever
jfcaronIs that the same MCU as the Adafruit Feather M0?
_habnabiti'm actually using a trinket m0
jfcaronI managed to use the timers via a library called Adafruit_ZeroTimer
_habnabitoh okay
_habnabiti've found zero working example code, so
jfcaronDo you want to see my Arduino code that uses it?
_habnabitsure. i'm just picking through the bits where it configures the TCx/TCCx right now
jfcaronConfig lines are 97-101
jfcaronErr, 97-105
jfcaronCallback function is lines 56-83.
n2That, my friends, are an incredibly good op amp datasheet.
n2The detail, oh the detail.
g0zjesus it's like a novel
jfcaronI like the photos of oscilloscope screens.
jfcaronVery 1980s.
n2The detail given to the gain stages
n2and the noise. and the offset.
n2and the compensationn.
n2jfcaron: It’s an old RCA part...
n2Still a bloody fine op amp.
n215MHz BiCMOS, almost rail-to-rail, 30V/us slew rate...
g0zI like whent he datasheet pdf is an off center tilted scan with 27% of the text completely blown out
bongofurywow it sure is
n2It even explains its biasing and current sourcing. I love it.
n2TI and others could learn a lot from RCA/Harris/Intersil
jfcaronI like it when the typewriter they used was running out of ink, then it was photocopied 77 times before being scanned.
n2jfcaron: oh yeah, the old xeroxed ones...
kmcACTION just made the ghettoest HF antenna
g0zI also like pdfs of dot matrix print outs
n2Like this, http://www.datasheetspdf.com/datasheet/download.php?id=504861
g0zdidn't work hm
n2In the meantime
n2May I just recommend https://archive.org/details/NationalSemiconductorLinearApplicationsHandbook1994
n2the Nat Semi Linear Applications Handbook ‘94
n2excellent tome
n2or the ’89 General Purpose Linear Devices - https://archive.org/details/generalpurposeli00nati
n2And even the ’77 Audio Handbook - https://archive.org/details/NatSemiAudioHdbk1977_201801
n2Notice the funky fonts in that
spludLike, WoW, man.
tempateHello. What is the best way to write my own schematics?
g0zyou mean what program?
Sculptorsup g0zman
g0zcause scully
g0zhi sculpy
Sculptorwhat are the boards you ordered from dirtypcbs for
kmctempate: what purpose
spybertn2: National would take schematics from standard CAD packages and have a techwriter re-enter them into their desktop publishing software. I saw them doing that in the 188-1990 timeframe
tempateg0z: yes
n2spybert: the best bits of their handbooks are the old articles
n2the ones written by Widlar, say
tempatekmc: I'm building an 8-bit computer and I would like to have the schematics in a decent format. Right know I simply write things by hand.
n2with his mailing adress on, even
g0zSculptor: oh some vectrex cartridge pcbs for holding EPROM program data.
LewsThanThreeOi. Given https://learn.adafruit.com/adafruit-4-channel-adc-breakouts/downloads , how do I figure out the pin distance? KiCAD has different pin distances for it's pin headers
n2LewsThanThree: that looks like a 0.1 inch pin header
g0zsomeone finally released a file. like 5 people have made them but they always keep the file private.
spybertn2: Sure, he was likely their best analog guy.
g0zmore than 5 even
n2i.e. 2.54mm header, LewsThanThree
n2spybert: and a pretty good writer, too
n2Not as idiosyncratic as Jim Williams
n2but that’s not necessarily a bad thing
tempateso, g0z, know of any program?
kmctempate: kicad
tempateI probably should have mentioned I'm on debian. Is that ok?
spybertn2: Did you ever work with National's networking products?
n2ACTION is mostly a linear guy, but an ethernet controller iirc
n2High speed digital stuff is better done by people who like that ;-)
spybertn2: bbl - real work awaits :-(
n2Ah i know that feeling
n2have fun
kmctempate: yeah, I use kicad in Debian. there are packages in the repo although some will tell you to build from source to get the latest stuff
kmcthe kicad schematic capture is not too hard to use, and it's a real EDA tool so you can go from that to PCB design
kmcit's not the best eda tool out there but it works and you can't beat the price
tempateyes, I'm trying to learn my way around. Thank you, kmc.
tawrtempate: also
tawradd a ppa or whatever to grab the newest kidcad since package managers are almost always out of date
tempatealright, thank you
restorerI forgot I was lacking this window after my laptop thrashed, crashed, and got glitchy
Viper-7shame on you
tawrtempate: did you find it?
restorerViper-7: it was only 4 hours, and I was out most of that time :P
Viper-7restorer: and that makes it ok ?!?!?!
restorerI have to get up again (ugh) to charge some batteries and test some jumper cables
restorerjust in case my car decides to not want to start again
kmctempate: kicad has some bugs too
kmcthere's an IRC channel which can be helpful
n2hmm… a current mirror biased single ended voltage amplifier
n2sort of like an amputated opamp...
n2this could work...
geniiSomething I don't quite understand is if there were AM crystal set radios back in the 20-30s why is AM too bulky to implement in things like tablets/phones? The aerial?
LeoNerdAlso it works in the 100s of kHz range. Such implies large coils and capacitors
LeoNerdGSM radio works in 100s of MHz or above, maybe up to 5 GHz
LeoNerdMuch smaller discretes
matlandsmaller waves too
matlandbut yes higher frequency lower parts
drewmuttFun fact. iPhones have an FM receiver in them.
restorermany phones do
matlandimagine u need LC circuit in khz range, you need big capacitor+inductor
matlandin ghz range you need tiny tiny one only
restorerit's disabled in some though
matland'merica firmware disables it
matlanddon't understand why, i wouldn't buy a phone without fm radio
matlandACTION actually listens that
restorermajor network providers' firmware* disables it
restorerbut, AFAIK, most or all phones can't send FM audio to bluetooth
restorerso I can't listen to FM radio on my bluetooth speaker
matlandmine can listen it on the speaker only if headset connected
restorerI have to switch to an internet stream
matlandcoz it claims to need it for antenna
restoreryeah, I can do it with an aux cable
zigggggyhey kludge!
zigggggydid you get your annual haircut?
matlandi always wondered why not they just put some loop antenna for fm in the phone case
kludgeBut yeah, you can make a tiny AM radio... you digitize the stuff at a high rate and do the filtering in software so you don't need big discretes. But you still need a big antenna.
matlandnot like a headphone wire makes a super good antenna
kludgezigggggy: I did! It is dramatic!
kludgematland: because the loop is very directional... gets worse at FM wavelengths... you turn a few degrees and the station goes away.
matlandeh and receiving is one thing but to receive low power signal and transmit relatively high power, it's advantageous to have the freq high
matlandif i stick some short headphone in my phone and loop it around, it's still "good enough" kludge
matlandthen again not ideal for it especially in a pocket
matlandbe best if it used that and the headphone wire both if available
kludgematland: Sure, but that's not really a loop, that's picking up electric field more than magnetic. An FM loop would be small, like the AM loopsticks but with fewer turns.
matlandi find it silly mostly the software really refuses to try without headphone
kludgeThe other big problem with AM is that there is so much interference... especially near digital electronics in a cellphone.
matlandthat's why FM took over basically before i was born lol
synx508no static at all
kludgesynx508: Now I am going to have that stupid song in my head.
kludgeI will have to watch more buddy rich videos to get it out.
spludHeh. I have a couple of rotary paper cutter tools. Platform type. One is high end (bought for photography). Been using the cheaper one - with a perforated blace - to cut sheets of inventory tracking labels to smaller pieces easily torn away to put with item.
zigggggykludge did you get a shave too?
kludgezigggggy: No, I would lose all my hippie credentials if I were to do that.
spludbut wait, I have a laser cutter. <Measures, drafts up a file). Laser peforation....
kludgezigggggy: I did get my beard trimmed though.
zigggggykludge if you dont have a VW minivan, then you already lost them
kludgezigggggy: I have spare parts for a VW Minivan!
zigggggykludge you have too much junk
zigggggyi threw out the computer with the bad motherboard that you didnt want
zigggggyi'm the opposite of a hoarder
zigggggyi give people a few weeks to collect junk from me and then it goes in the trash
kludgeMy friend used to call me up in the middle of the night yelling "Farfegnugen! Farfegnugen!" and I would have to go out and see what had gone wrong with his microbus this time.
zigggggykludge i have a bunch of old motherboards and cpus and vga cards.. i need to throw it all out
kludgeIt's true I have too much junk though.
zigggggyno one wants them
synx508I was a hoarder, then I wasn't, now it's illegal to throw out most of the stuff I want to throw out
zigggggywhy is it illegal
synx508because WEEEEEEEEE
kludgeIt's the radiation, zigggggy.
HrdwrBoBzigggggy: it's because he hoards asbestos and radium
zigggggyradiation is part of nature
zigggggyif you dont want to be radiated i suggested blocking all light
geniiMaybe he hoards roadkill
zigggggyas a first step
kludgeThat's why I wear these cool tea shades, zigggggy.
matlandwtf are tea shades?
zigggggyACTION hits kludge with a burst of xray
synx508the rules where I live are getting silly. I might fill a van with it and try to give it to radio hams this year
kludgematland: Dark sunglasses with small lenses, a la John Lennon.
synx508like, buy something and get something you don't want absolutely free
zigggggykludge how do xrays penetrate your skin and organs?
matlandoh cool
zigggggykludge i never understood that
matlandi always wear photochromic glasses
zigggggykludge you are a solid
matlandit warns me if there is too much UV
kludgezigggggy: Light penetrates your skin and organs! Shine a flashlight on your hand and you can see through some of it!
kludgezigggggy: Add more energy to the radiation and it goes through more things!
matlandlight sounds like a pervert
banandanazigggggy: !
restorerlight goes through your stuff when you're not looking!
matlandpenetrating people without their permission and all
synx508zigggggy, would you prefer it if it tickled?
matlandnot nice.
kludgeAt 6kev or so it goes through microphones!
zigggggykludge light doesn't penetrate very far
kludgezigggggy: it doesn't, but it penetrates farther than radio waves.
matlandACTION shines a 5kW short arc xenon lamp at zigggggy
zigggggykludge so where does the light go ?
matlandthe pink light bounces back
kludgezigggggy: it turns into heat when it's absorbed, like most "lost" energy.
kludgeBut yes, if you're a haole the pink light bounces back.
zigggggykludge but if you can see it penetrating your skin, doesn't it mean it bounced back?
zigggggythe photon has to reach your eyes!
restorernot if you're seeing it *from the other side* ooohohoooohhh
kludgezigggggy: No, I mean shine a flashlight through your hand and see what comes out the other side.
synx508I was reading about the possible urban myth of the blind person who saw the nuclear tests
restorerlike pulse oximeters
kludgeYeah, a lot of light is reflected, some is turned into heat, but some goes through.
synx508or at least saw the flash
Viper-7well what do you expect from us 'bags of mostly water'
zigggggykludge so if it had more energy it would turn into more heat and burn your internals?
restorersynx508: possible, for certain kinds of blindness
synx508apparently so
restorercosmic rays too, at high altitudes
kludgezigggggy: Yes, or even worse it would ionize your internals or transmute elements.
matlandconsidering how watery humans are they are surprisingly opaque
zigggggykludge like gamma rays do?
kludgezigggggy: Which is why you don't want to spend all day in the x-ray machine.
zigggggykludge they can knock out an electron?
Viper-7matland: so is the local lake, tis why nobody swims in it :P
zigggggywhere does the electron go?
kludgegamma rays penetrate even more, they will not just go right through you but they will go through engine blocks.
matlandgamma rays could even penetrate a church
matlandor a boat
banandananothing penetrates god
Viper-7but going through you is harmless, its the interacting with you that causes problems
kludge6kev through a microphone: http://www.panix.com/~kludge/mictest1.jpg
zigggggykludge speaking of microphones
kludgeYou can see the resistors are pretty transparent but those electrolytics block it all.
zigggggykludge what is a condenser microphone
restorerI wonder what kind of x-ray setups they use for imaging bombs
zigggggykludge vs a dynamic
kludgezigggggy: A dynamic microphone is a coil of wire in a magnetic field. The diaphragm moves, current is generated in the coil.
Viper-7restorer: i wonder if they use thz scanners these days
matlandi wish i had the space to put an x ray machine
restoreroops, I'm out
kludgezigggggy: A condenser microphone is a capacitor... the space between a stator plate and the diaphragm is charged up and as the diaphragm moves the capacitance changes.
restorergotta pack up, find a mailbox and head across town
Viper-7have fun with that :P
zigggggykludge how do you know which one you want or need
matlandgamma rays could penetrate a mailbox too
kludgezigggggy: You buy the one that sounds right for the application and you don't worry about the technology inside the box.
Viper-7matland: but yo mommas so fat, she blocks em!
banandanawhere do you guys go to buy an entire BOM
zigggggykludge so a dynamic generates current and a condenser changes capacitance?
kludgezigggggy: pretty much, yeah.
zigggggykludge what do radio guys use
zigggggykludge and by radio i mean AM/FM/XM
kludgebanandana: No place.
zigggggykludge and podcasters
Viper-7banandana: aliexpress :P
banandanao I have to piece it together myself I see
kludgezigggggy: Our local NPR station uses RE-20 dynamic mikes on announcers but they use KM84 condensers at the NPR station up in Richmond. It's a religious issue.
banandanaconsidering I don't need rolls of a thousand
kludgebanandana: digikey usually gets at least half of a typical thing for me.
Viper-7big vendors like digikey, mouser, arrow, etc can come close, but you pay for that
kludgenewark will dicker if you have a big list, digikey will never dicker with me.
zigggggykludge how do they get that radio voice though?
matlandget a chinese friend to order your stuff from taobao
zigggggykludge does that depend a lot on the mic technology?
banandanalol matland
Viper-7kludge: sometimes you want a good dickering
zigggggykludge or signal processing?
kludgezigggggy: From their body! I heard Gary Owens live and he sounded just like that right in front of you with no microphone at all!
kludgeIt was amazing!
matlandit's lots cheaper than aliexpress banandana
Viper-7matland: thats what dirtypcbs are for :P
Viper-7you can buy your whole BOM from taobao, get it sent to their chinese address, they'll bundle it all together and courier it over to you
kludgezigggggy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6cd2Otu8Xq8
matlandyeah but it goes smoother if you have a translator Viper-7
Viper-7but it helps if you're able to read moonrunes to do such
matlandand you can negotiate extra discount if you talk the talk
kludgematland: those guys will dicker but they will also substitute.
zigggggykludge but not everyone sounds like that naturally
kludgezigggggy: It takes years of practice!
matlandtrue kludge, you don't buy the parts if you are making mission critical device
zigggggykludge so how do they get that sound? is it audio processing or microphone technology? or both?
kludgezigggggy: Aggressive limiting and miking close to the mouth help, but there's nothing that will ever make you sound like that without training.
zigggggykludge limiting? i need to record some voice prompts for an IVR for my father's phone system
zigggggykludge i installed audacity
matlandis it possible to make that voice in 2018?
kludgezigggggy: Yes, compress the crap out of it and then apply aggressive limiting to chop all the peaks off the top.
zigggggykludge i see recommendations to use a HPF
zigggggy@ 10KHz
zigggggyno 1KHz
kludgezigggggy: Try 100 Hz or so.
zigggggywhy does compression give you the radio voice?
zigggggykludge how much rolloff?
kludgezigggggy: Depending on the mike and the room and your voice you may need more lower mid EQ.
zigggggythe example uses 6db/octave
matlandu need mad skillz and be in 1970s in a studio zigggggy
zigggggyit doesn't really matter all that much.. this is for a business that is nearly closed
kludgeIt doesn't give you the radio voice, but compression evens out levels SO THAT you can limit and chop peaks down which makes things grittier and more dense. But it will not make you sound like Gary Owens.
Loshkizigggggy: I saw Dionne Warwick live once. She sounded exactly like a recording of herself. I was disappointed.
zigggggyhe just doesn't want to answer the phone directly anymore since it's mostly garbage
kludgezigggggy: Just concentrate on making it sound clean with no popping or thumping or anything.
zigggggykludge so HPF @ 100 Hz? how fast a rolloff
zigggggy6 dB/octave?
zigggggywhy do audio people use octaves.. i'm in the decade world, kludge :P
kludgezigggggy: Very fast, just a brick wall. But exactly how high it needs to be depends on your voice. Just listen to it, turn the knob up until it starts to sound thin, then back it off.
zigggggyeach pole = 20 dB/decade :D
matlandbecause music shit zigggggy
kludgezigggggy: RF people get annoyed when I talk about octaves but powers of two are so easy.
zigggggy6 dB/octave is 1 pole, right?
Loshki"I've reinvented music. Decimalized it. Doh rey mi fah so lah ti doe wo bo" -- Red Dwarf
matlandreminds me i havent watched the last red drawf season
zigggggyACTION is in the rf world
matlandonly SF series that ever got me fascinated lol
kludgeYes, but in the digital world we can have FIR filters with hundreds of poles.
zigggggykludge i have a crap microphone i think.. it came with my motherboard
synx508Thank you for calling, your calls were important to us once, before all the garbage started calling.
Viper-7i liked the orville, but its still no red dwarf
zigggggykludge it is a stero mic..
kludgezigggggy: then use one side of it and ignore the other.
zigggggykludge i think I read you want only 1 channel for telephone prompts
matlandstero is better than moneo
zigggggykludge stereo sounds strange with ulaw encoding?
kludgezigggggy: and be careful about popping if you are up close with a cheap mike.
kludgeThe phone is not stereo. It is only one pair to the phone.
kmcwhat's a good resource on FIR filter design?
kludgeYou only hold the phone to one ear so there is no need for stereo.
LewsThanThreeViper-7, looks like ADDR already is grounded by default? https://learn.adafruit.com/assets/36145
zigggggykludge my pbx does ulaw, alaw, and gsm
zigggggyin that order
zigggggyand i think g722
Viper-7LewsThanThree: on some modules yeah
Viper-7doing it yourself too doesnt hurt tho
Viper-7tell me you're not sourcing all these parts from adafruit? :P
zigggggykludge why are we still with ulaw? can't we use higher quality codecs?
zigggggywe have fiber!
kludgezigggggy: Hell, VoIP systems and cellphones usually use awful compression that is WAY worse than plain uLaw.
zigggggynot anymore
LewsThanThreeViper-7, not at all, just looking around.
kludgeuLaw is inoffensive.
Viper-7kk :P
matlandfiber is healthy for your digestive system
LewsThanThreeTrying to find modules and stuff for KiCAD
zigggggykludge they are now using g722 i think
kludgezigggggy: Listen to music over the cellphone and see if you can make out the tune.
zigggggykludge yes but they've been rolling out wideband
zigggggyyour phone needs to support it
zigggggyand it may not traverse the pstn with other cell phone providers, yet
synx508mine does and it's unsettling whenever I call someone else with the same capability
kludgezigggggy: cellphone quality gets worse and worse every year as they use more and more lossy compression!
synx508it's not like being on the phone
kludgeWhen I get a landline call, it is very obvious if the other caller is on a landline, a cellphone, or the wideband cellphone.
zigggggykludge it's not true.. my phone does g722 when the other end supports it.. it is very high quality.. almost eerily so
zigggggysignificantly better than ulaw
LoshkiViper-7: I kept forgetting Oroville was a comedy...
zigggggykludge i think that is where it falls back to the old encoding.. if you call a landline from a cell that supports g722 it will have fall back to the narrowband codec
kludgezigggggy: Listen to music and see what i mean!
zigggggykludge i know what you mean.. i've heard it
zigggggykludge but its changing
kludgeIt's so weird... and it hapepns with g722 although much less so than with the narrowband gsm.
Viper-7Loshki: i like how its half comedy, half sci-fi
kludgeI don't think it will change until telcos start being run by people who care about quality, reliability, and customer service.
Viper-7Loshki: more just like.. regular people in space :P
LoshkiViper-7: that's what I meant about forgetting it's a comedy. In real life (tm) all the staff would be bitching like crazy...
Viper-7hehe yep
zigggggykludge the biggest thing they are working on is getting g722 to traverse the pstn
zigggggyi think it works now to some extent
zigggggymy pbx supports g722 so you might be able to call into it from a cell with g722
banandanap b x
banandanao n e p b x u s i n g b o i
banandanazigggggy: are your gs like tree rings
banandanawhere u get a year older you get another g
banandanaand u can tell how old the ziggy is by counting the gs
LewsThanThreeRemember how I was complaining about my coworker?
LewsThanThreeSo he shows up to work, preparing to do onsite stuff at a few customers.
LewsThanThreeHe's wearing bright red sweatpants.
LewsThanThreeMy boss chewed him out during our daily touchpoint call.
LewsThanThreeI just about died, had to mute myself.
abcabctie and suit workplace?
LewsThanThreeKhakis and teashirt
matlandwhats wrong with bright red sweatpants
hitekthey make you stand out, which can be a good thing
ketasoh i got my 1.77 eur back
matlandand not die in traffic
matlandway to go ketas you'll be rich
ketasfor returned 100 pack of 1a glass bulb leaded fuses
ketasbut i really wanted fuses
banandanawhy did you return it then!
banandanaketas you're silly
ketasthe post did it
matlandbad postman
banandanablame the mail man
ketaslikely crapped label
banandanamatland: post man is chill
matlandwait for him with a paddle next day
ketasmr postman!!!
r0n0xhow cheap could i get a laser cutter capable of doing acrylic and MDF?
banandanamr postman!
ketasmrs postwoman
banandanaI know a postwoman
SpeedEvilr0n0x: Does a fretsaw with a LASER pointer count?
matlandi will always remember the one package i got from china said "THANK YOU POSTMAN"
matlandthought that was very cute
banandanaACTION points his lasers at SpeedEvil
r0n0xACTION a fires his lasers
LewsThanThreematland, considering we try to pass off our services on a professional level... yeanokthx
LewsThanThreeNeedless to say, he didn't go onsite today.
LewsThanThreeGuy's more stupid than a sack of nails, too.
LewsThanThreeHe's way past the "might be fired" line.
matlandmost bosses love idiots
LewsThanThreeNot when you're three guys managing IT for 60+ companies.
LewsThanThree*small companies
r0n0xso, with laser cutters is it the same as cncs where you can build one yourself for way cheaper than buying? or are the china ones just good out the box?
LewsThanThreeSome level of competency is expected.
SpeedEvilr0n0x: the LASER is the expensive part, pretty much.
SpeedEvilr0n0x: And doing your own is more annoying due to the optical path. You can do a moving bed fixed LASER design pretty easy
banandanawork ends in 2 hours
SpeedEvilhttps://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/40W-CO2-Sealed-Laser-Engraver-Tube-Water-Cool-70cm-Engraving-Cutter-High-Quality/222445710938 + PSU + watercooling
SpeedEvilAnd have that sticking up vertically from your table, which slides back and forth
notsgnikhello, i'm trying to syncronise tow usb device by removing one clock and connecting the pins to the other one
SpeedEvilOtherwise, you need to deal with beam steering optics
notsgniki know that it was made
r0n0xi see, better to buy one then
notsgnikthe problem is
notsgniki have a diferent board :/
SpeedEvilr0n0x: the very cheapest can have issues of their own though
notsgnikdo any one kind have the skills to help a fellow out ? :)
r0n0xlike what?
r0n0xrattly rails?
matlandwhat is issue notsgnik? #rtlsdr has some brilliant minds also
banandanawhat other gud channels are there
banandanawhat is that about
notsgniki don't know how to connect one ocillator to the other board cause i don't know how the diferent part will interact, knowing the second board is an other circuit mounted in paralle from the point of view of the occilator
LewsThanThreeI feel there is a mom joke that would fit in there, but I dunno.
matlandall about me now, since i'm alone there banandana
banandanaill join q.q
r0n0xso, how do i make sure im getting a good cutter?
matlandevry1 join #yours
notsgnikmatland, sorry i'm still rusty with irc
LewsThanThreenotsgnik, type /join #yours
matlandhaha no worries notsgnik
LewsThanThreeRight were you normally type messages.
banandanawere all talkin shit about r0n0x there
matlandyeah you better come put a stop to it r0n0x
banandananot really r0n0x
banandanawe love u
r0n0xso, how do i determine if a chinese laser cutter is any good? what can be wrong with them besides comming with a crappy laser?
matlandr0n0x: you buy it and check it out is how :-P often the reviews on aliexpress will warn if it's total crap
matlandfirmware/software support would be something to keep your eye open about with virtually anything chinese that hooks to a pc and runs firmware
r0n0xis it easy to switch out for an open source controller?
r0n0xor do they put heaps on the same board so youd end up needing shitloads of peripherals
matlandeasy would be relative i guess
r0n0xif its got poor support
r0n0xwhat should i aim for if i wanna cut mostly 8mm stuff but occasionally 10mm
matlandi'd look for something that people you can find on youtube or so bought already and complain about
r0n0xi mean mostly 6mm*
r0n0xi see
matlandmore popular is more better in many cases, "community support" and yadi yada
SmokinGruntsWOO! Blizzard incoming, don't gotta go to the shop tomorrow!! XD
matlandlike if you buy chinese scope rigol is good plan, coz everyone has that one
LewsThanThreeSmokinGrunts, what did Blizzard to now?!
r0n0xyeah i got a rigol
matlandand then you don't need to dicker about to get hack for higher bandwidth on the cheap model cause someone done it for ya
SmokinGruntslol just lotta snow coming my way in Chicago
LewsThanThreeSend some our way.
LewsThanThreeJust without the cold.
LewsThanThreeWe get like 2 inches of rain a year.
LewsThanThreeIt's redic.
SmokinGruntswhere's that?
matlandsounds dry
LewsThanThreeWe're on the Baja.
SmokinGruntsOHHH that's right
SmokinGruntsI forgot
LewsThanThreeNo worries.
LewsThanThreeOften forget what I had for food, so yea.
SmokinGruntssomeone test my beep on name in... 5 seconds pls?
matlandSmokinGrunts: beep beep
SmokinGruntsok good, thx
LewsThanThreeACTION spam's SmokinGrunts nick now.
matlandactually we should have intentionally misspelled his name to mess with him
SmokinGruntsFUCK I gotta clean my linux partition
SmokinGruntsit's been a while
SmokinGruntsglad to be back AWAY from Windows
matlandACTION hands SmokinGrunts a bucket of water n soap
SmokinGruntsACTION shakes a long stick at Windows
SmokinGruntsACTION gets down and dirtay
LewsThanThreeDid that hilight you?
matlandi like winblows 7
SmokinGruntsno, you used an unusual space-character
matlandSmokingGrunts: how about now?
matlandaha it is broken
SmokinGruntsprolly ':' ?
SmokinGruntsI dunno, I ain't used to HexChat
SmokinGruntsI miss nnscript/mIRC
matlandno SmokingGrunts it's broken
LewsThanThreeI rightclicked the entry area, insert control character, picked one at random
SmokinGruntshuehueh I'm cleaning my hdd's, remember? got no tiiiiime fer trifles of the nick-highlightin' kind
SmokinGruntsRC tycoon 3, yer fired!
SmokinGruntsdarkwood, yer fired!
SmokinGruntseclipse, yer hired!
SmokinGruntsBAH! windows didn't remove the damn hibernation flag from my shared partition
LordCrcin LTSpice's UniversalOpamp2 model, is the "Slew" parameter in V/us, or in which units?
LordCrcoh hm, V/s might make more sense
SmokinGruntsmuch bettah.
SmokinGruntsalso; https://youtu.be/GnEmD17kYsE?list=PLLHE6fOkezmT0DkgSkrN07ds_Ic0yjEnw
SmokinGrunts! Viper-7 where is my homie electrobot?!
SmokinGruntsoooookay wtf... I'm guessing it was a Java update... all my linux right-click menus are wrong color...
kmcanyone here have a good resource on FIR/IIR filter design?
SmokinGruntskmc you got matlab yet?
SmokinGruntsget ittt
SmokinGruntsand https://www.mathworks.com/help/signal/ug/fir-filter-design.html?s_tid=gn_loc_drop
kmcSmokinGrunts: do I need any of these "toolboxes"?
SmokinGruntsI don't think so