Mad7ScientistReplacing 50V capacitors with 25V or even 16V since it's a 12V output
SmokinGruntsokay so I had to 'make' in kicad-libs/components, then I just manually copied to /usr/local/blahblah
SmokinGruntsmake in components was for gencon
SmokinGruntsnow 'make view' loads MUCH faster
SmokinGruntsalso, no errors!
SmokinGruntsvery cool software
SmokinGruntsooooooh loads datasheets just fine!
DocScrutinizer05gosh, the diagnostic output of eeshow is almost unbearable when there been some "messed up" versions in git (change of libs)
DocScrutinizer05SmokinGrunts: you know this one?
SmokinGruntswow that's neat
hanetzerquestion, anyone here know stuff about lpc bus sniffing/etc?
hanetzerSmokinGrunts: HLW32R-2C7LF or something of the like, Amphenol FCI
DocScrutinizer05who was talking about BMO055? seems we switched to BMX055
SmokinGruntsDocScrutinizer05: Instructions:
SmokinGruntssudo apt install qiv -y
SmokinGruntsgit clone git://
SmokinGruntscd kicad-libs/components/
SmokinGruntscd ../..
SmokinGruntssudo mkdir /usr/local/kicad
SmokinGruntssudo mkdir /usr/local/kicad/library
SmokinGruntssudo chown -R USER:USER /usr/local/kicad/
SmokinGruntsmv kicad-libs/ /usr/local/kicad/library
SmokinGruntsgit clone neo900-ee
SmokinGruntscd neo900-ee/hw/
SmokinGruntsmake view
SmokinGruntshanetzer, got it :)
DocScrutinizer05SmokinGrunts: awesome! thanks
Welkinthat reminds me of the music in pit people
Welkinthe song where the guy with a deep voice goes "mm-hm" over and over again
SmokinGruntsswitchin' back to windows and running to the store, bbs
retrosenatordo you need to switch both sides in an H bridge?
retrosenatoror can you just switch one fet leaving the other on?
CircadianRebelyou need to switch both
DocScrutinizer05no, in a H-bridge it's essential to switch all 4 transistors in the correct way, or blue magic smoke escapes from your circuit
drewmuttIf I have a device which "goes" in between something, like how a kill-a-watt goes in between an outlet and a fridge. Is there a technical name for such a thing?
kmcinline measurement device?
kmcor a man in the middle ;)
Mad7Scientistin line device?
drewmuttHeh, not bad, but more like a governor which controls how much comes out.
drewmuttA faucet, essentiall.
DocScrutinizer05controller then?
DocScrutinizer05or adapter?
spludfaucet is a "regulator"
nohopAte... too... much...
spludA governor sets an absolute max.
drewmuttAh, I like regulator, I'll go with that, thanks!
LoshkiThe kill-a-watt goes in between an outlet and a fridge since it has to monitor power usage. Easiest way to do that is to interpose something. But you could also be describing semiconductor 'amplification', or V/I regulation, and those are just the ones I know about.
kmcyou can measure AC current with a split core tarnsformer
DocScrutinizer05the question wasn't really a good one, to start with
jaggztthe killawatt is not a regulator
spludkmc - you can measure current, but without knowledge of phase and voltage, you don't really know power.
jaggztan inline monitor maybe
jaggztsplud, you don't know power!
spludyea, kill-a-watt doesn't in any way change the power going to the device (short of consuming just a tiny bit to run itself)
jaggztit's a multimeter :)
spludpowered from the mains. That it's measuring.
dansan_Hello guys! I'm looking at a voltage regulator that says "LD33V3" and below that "GKOK2" and "6V". On the 3rd line it says "CHN" and "549", finally it has the ST logo below that. What the hell is "GKOK2"? is this some type of date code? And I presume it's made in China.
spluddansan pull up the ST datasheet for the LD33V3.
dansanIt was supposed to be 3.3v LDO that can take 5V, but I'm guessing it needs 6V :(
hanetzerkicad users: mini pcie card?
jaggztit probably maxes at 6
jaggztthose labels are made to make older worn eyes sad
jaggztnot for spec details
jaggztWhen in doubt, always turn away from the datasheet.
spludHrm LD1117V33C ? What package?
dansanI think it's call TO-3? It's the kind with three legs in-line and a nice place for a heat sink
dansanoh, TO-220!
spludTO220 yes.
spludIs it a part you purchased, or extracted, or?
dansansplud: yeah, google gives me the datasheet for an LD1117
Greg-JWhat would be the most cost effective way to have a pressure sensitive touch surface about the size of a keyboard, or wider?
Greg-JI want X and Y coords as well as sensitivity.
dansansplud: purchsed on a trip to a surplus electronics store. He was probably just wrong about the input voltage
dansanI asked the guy at one of their counters instead of looking it up :)
spluddansan - according to the datasheet (for LD1117V33) - it has a max Vin of 15V
SmokinGruntsyo hanetzer, do you want silkscreen labels for net numbers like on ?
spludWhich is the same as I have for the AMS1117 which I used on a board a few days ago.
dansansplud: oh, I need to google LD1117V33?
SmokinGruntsMX1 ... +3V ... CAPSLED etc?
dansansplud: Cool, thanks! :)
hanetzerSmokinGrunts: it would be nifty. maybe stick something on it to denote these labels are specific to the r33/hp g7-2247us
restorersee I ask about LDOs when everyone's talking about AMS1117 and NO ONE mentions the LD1117 :P
SmokinGruntson the one hand, it'd be nice for matching specifically with that mobo datasheet, on the other hand, the board could be used for other 32pin FFC's and that labeling might confuse
dansansplud: I just need to find the min voltage drop to see if it will be stable with 5v input
spludI'd start with that. Sadly, that datasheet isn't listing device markings/
SmokinGruntsokies, I'll put info on the backside of the board
dansansplud: Well thank you for the information. I was kinda lost :)
hanetzerSmokinGrunts: I'm also gonna give a go at making a mini-pcie to pin header breakout since the pcie port used for the wifi card has some nice pins routed to it :)
SmokinGruntsvery noice
spludLine Regulatiion with Vin of 4.75 to 15V at Io of 0mA is 1-6 mV (1mV typ), and Vin 4.75V and Io of 0-800mA, 1-10mV.
jaggzt"Meanwhile, as oceans heat up, thermal expansion causes sea levels that are already rising from the melting of land ice (triggered by higher air and sea temperatures) to rise even more. Nearly 50 percent of the sea level rise so far has come from ocean warming"
spludYou know you can test the regulator by providing it whatever Vin, and put a resistor between GND and out for a load, measure voltage across it.
splud(whatever Vin within range <g>)
dansansplud: yeah, I was going to do that next :)
dansansplud: but I was hoping to actually find the DATA within the so-called "datasheet" :)
VanUnamedto225 and to 220 can be compatible?
dansansplud: Oh! that's what the "dropout voltage is perhaps" :)
dansansplud: Max of 1.3, so I'm presuming that means the lowest input for 800mA load would be 4.6v
retrosenatorin an h bridge, what is the difference switching both fets or leaving one on and switching only one?
spludWhich make sense that the sheet I was reading was using 4.75 in the figures.
Loshkiretrosenator: well what do you *think* will happen if you signal the motor to move both backwards and forwards at the same time? I think you need to review how h-bridges actually work.
spludThere's a SOT-23 part marked with "LD33", which is a Micrel, "MIC5206-3.3BM5" 150mA Low-Noise LDO Regulator (fixed output)
spludSOT23-5 rather.
retrosenatorLoshki: not what I mean
spludUnfortunate to have a part which the presumably labelled manufacturer does not publish current datasheet for.
retrosenatorLoshki: I mean, if you switch both mosfets needed to move forward with pwm
retrosenatorLoshki: or switch one mosfet, and leave the other one on
Crackiretrosenator, draw a picture
spludThis part sounds a lot like what you have dansan:
Crackito drive a motor, you need 4 fets in total, one per leg of the H
retrosenatoryes, but you need to switch 2 of them to move forward, call them A and C
Crackidraw a picture.
retrosenatorwhat if you leave A on, and pwm just C?
Crackidraw a picture.
spludwell, to drive a DC motor either direction.
retrosenatorjust forward for now
retrosenatorbecause some designs switch both the mosfets on and off at pwm
Crackiwell, if one fet on the current path is off, no current flows
spludretrosenator - it's steppers you can drive without _stepping_ to hold them.
Crackiwhich designs
Crackifor which motors
retrosenatorother designs leave one on, and switch just one
Crackithis could involve current recirculation
Crackibraking and whatnot
Crackiget concrete.
retrosenatorwell what I"m getting at, is you could use mosfets with lower on resistance and higher gate charge as the always on mosfet
Crackipost links, draw pics, whatever. words are not enough
spludin a DC motor if you were to ground both leads, or apply +V to both, it would be at 0V potential and do nothing.
Crackinobody wants high gate charge
retrosenatorthen use higher resistance and lower charge for the ones switched more
retrosenatorCracki: it gives lower on resistance
Crackiand low rdson is obviously required for high current
spludIf you were to take +V and shunt it to ground on your control circuit (where the fets are), you'd make heat and smoke.
Crackiif you think you don't need low rdson, you might misunderstand something
retrosenatorsplud: I'm not doing that, I'm talking about using different part numbers for the 4 mosfets in the bridge
spluddesired for efficient high current, particularly at low voltages.
Crackidraw a picture already
spludso, you're raiding your parts drawer, and this is all you can come up with?
retrosenatorCracki: is ascii art ok?
Crackimspaint is better
retrosenatorCracki: windowz?
retrosenatorI can't run wine
Crackiuse gimp then
retrosenatorLinux raspberrypi 4.9.35-v7+ #1014 SMP Fri Jun 30 14:47:43 BST 2017 armv7l GNU/Linux
retrosenatorok hold on
Crackido you have a mouse
spludif you have a selection of parts, I'd at least try to balance Rds(on) total for the two directions to be the same.
Crackimatched p-fet and n-fet, and a controller to deal with dead times
spludSay you have three available N
Crackior else you'll get a short and that's it
retrosenatorsplud: yes that is the idea, but I was suggesting to have a lower rds(on) for the low side fets, and lower gate charge for the high side fets
spludN fets, with (makey-upy values) 2, 3, and 4 ohms.
Crackiget that out of your head.
retrosenatorsince the low side fets mostly stay on or off but don't switch that much
Crackiyou won't pwm fast enough to notice any gate capacities
Crackilow rdson fets are goddamn cheap
retrosenatorCracki: everything is n-fet, and I might switch above 20khz to avoid audible noise, and switching costs power
Crackiand they have low gate capacity too
Cracki20 khz is nothing
spludand two P fets pf 1 and 3 ohhms, pair the N2+P3 = 5 total, and the N4 and P1 = 5 total.
retrosenatorobviously there are plenty of fets that work fine.. I'm talking about optimizing it to make it slightly more efficient
retrosenatorsplud: there are no P fets, all the fets are N fets
Crackiwhat to gain?
Crackihow do you drive the gates
Crackiwhat voltages are involved
retrosenatorgate driver chip that handles high and low side
spludOkay, even all N's - you may want them balanced. Otherwise, one direction will have greater losses than the other. Tho perhaps that is desirable to you.
Crackiah, so you just buy 4 equal fets and you're done
Crackiread the data sheet of your gate driver.
spludWell, equal fets would be fine, but retrosenator indicated they're all different.
spludWhich woulds like parts bin rummaging.
retrosenatorI'm saying having the 2 low side fets with lower rds(on) and the 2 high side with lower gate charge
Crackiparts bin rummaging... oh dear
Crackiat least scavenge parts from one device. they tend to match.
spludNothing wrong with that if you have a well-stocked parts bin.
retrosenatorno I'm suggesting it makes sense to use different fets
retrosenatoras in, the most efficient design would use unequal fets
CrackiI'm suggesting your idea makes no sense
retrosenatorthe total rds(on) for forward is the same as reverse
Crackihave you done any calculations
spludboth the fets for one direction are going to be in circuit, low or high rds(on). Gate charge, well, if it switches quick, it'll be OC.
Crackias to the energy needed to drive the gates at whatever khz you named
splud(or closed. if switching on).
Crackicome up with numbers
spludThough the OTHER fet may be switching slower, and that'll be a problem.
retrosenatorI don't know how to calculate switching losses, since the mosfet also has higher rds on while switching which takes longer with higher gate charge
Crackiyou're optimizing completely irrelevant amounts of opwer
LoshkiI thought everything was simulated before you even start breadboarding nowadays?
retrosenatorCracki: that may be
Crackiif you don't know how to calculate switching losses, stop optimizing for them
Crackiand first learn how to calculate them
Crackiat least estimate
Crackior measure
retrosenatorCracki: that makes sense
Crackior was that "duh!"?
Crackimy valley is poor
retrosenatorbut do you at least see where I"m comming from since only one fet on each direction switches "fast"?
Crackibasically, yes.
retrosenatorbut I suspect you are right that it is a trivial amount of power
Crackithe time you spend on this is wasted. truly.
Crackiunless you have numbers and you know you need better numbers, it's pointless.
Crackilike contemplating the death of an ant under your shoe
spludretrosenator - do yo see where I'm coming from that you could have problems if the FET the fast one is paired with is SLOW?
Crackibridge drivers tend to have dead times so you don't have fets of one half of the bridge active (and a short!) at the same
Crackiif that's not enough, you get a short for sure, so check data sheets
redrabbitnode red is neat
redrabbitmy thermostat now regulates heating based on the average house temperature (6 sensors), instead of one room
hanetzerman, I'll tell you what, one of the best investments I've ever made for personal wellness and enjoyment is my $20 double edged safety razor
Crackidouble-edged enjoyment
hanetzershaving is a chore, but its much nicer (and easier on the wallet!) with one of these :)
Crackihow about laser treatment and lots of soy
hanetzernah. maybe the former, but I like steak too much for the latter :P
retrosenatorsplud: the gate driver chips have separate inputs for the high and low fets
Crackican't beat the meat
retrosenatorsplud: so the uC can program the correct delay
retrosenatorsplud: but it's important consideration
jfcaronDo they allow same-gendered partners for the figure skating doubles?
jfcaronI imagine two dudes could pull off way bigger tricks.
hanetzerjfcaron: blades of glory ;P
Crackijust take a dude and cut off his bits. or take a woman and pump her full of testosterone.
jfcaronNo one ever accuses the male athletes of being women in disguise.
retrosenatorwhat about a dwarf and a full sized human? could the dwarf be thrown higher to allow for more tricks?
transhumananyone able to help with docsys 2.0 to 3.0 anyone know where I can find detailed voltage, current, and frequency specs for the telephony connections?
stvnno idea, but i offer this
electrobotstvn just linked to The Simpsons - Homer hallucinating - YouTube
intranickstvn: who the fuck
stvnit was me!
intranickstvn: but what of the dogs?
stvnwoof woof!
ahooit looks to me like there are not many metal film resistors out there above 2W
ahooare there other types of resistors common for ratings of like 3, 4, 6 or 10W?
timemageahoo, wirebound?
Bird|otherboxahoo, you'll see wirewound and power thick film types above the 2-3W mark
Bird|otherboxthere are some metal/oxide film types in the 3W or so range
timemageguess it's not worth fixing the typo now.
ahoowhat does "4R7" mean regarding resistors?
ahoo4,7 ohm?
ahoo4.7 ohm?
Bird|otherboxahoo, exactly
Bird|otherboxthey do this because the decimal point would be rather too hard to see on a tiny SMD part :P
Viper-7Bird|otherbox: i like how they often use R on caps and inductors too tho :P
Bird|otherboxnotation abuse, man
Viper-7i suppose 4H7 wouldnt exactly be better
restoreroh right, forgot I can't (easily) use that URL here
Viper-7restorer: oh?
restorerbut I have backup keywords for ali searches :P
restorerViper-7: same system here at the clinic that blocks various sites
restorerIIRC it's for content, just past searches listed on your site
restorerthe alternatives work fine
Viper-7brightcloud apparently has one "infection" logged for "phishing" on my domain within the past 12 months - thats all they'll tell me, and they wont remove it, even though i've completely changed servers
Viper-7it wouldnt be enough to block my site for everyone, but im also a "low popularity domain" which also counts against me apparently :/
Viper-7i'd still love to know what the 'phishing' was, because theres been no ability to run custom code or render custom html on my domain for more than a year, and i sure as shit havent been hacked or infected
restorerheh, it lets me load,, but (obv) not
restorerI wish I could find what these block category codes mean
restoreryours is bc_057, something sexy is bc_011
Viper-7lol, found a SO thread complaining that meraki was blocking for bc_057 too
Bird|otherboxo/ SnakesAndStuff
SmokinGruntsAw fuck, my wife lost her ring.
stvnsmoking blunts
SmokinGruntsstvn I thoroughly love barbecue oinkers, while popping grunty heads in Halo...
SmokinGruntswhile smoking buds too tho.
tawrSmokinGrunts: the hax0rs stole it when they pwnt your box
stvnthe dog and his equations
SmokinGruntslewl them some ninjas if that be the case
stvni want to buy a capacitor
r0n0xif i wanted to fit something on the shaft of this motor, would i be forced to use pre-made stuff like gears, for this? or could i make my own? like, being able to make something that can be securely pressed on, not the gear teeth
tawrdo you have a 3d printer
tawrand what do you mean?
nohopWhat would you guys recommend for a simulator in linux? I've been using LTspice, but I think I might want something a little more modern :)
tawryou can get pulleys, sprockets, and gears for motors that are either press fit or set screw r0n0x
tawrfor cheap
SmokinGruntsr0n0x grab calipers and get diameter
tawror what did you mean? if you don't know how to make stuff, then the answer is no.
SmokinGruntsif you want a ONE-OFF (like, just for you...) I can machine you one
r0n0xso, theres an abundance of pre-made stuff that works on shafts that thin then?
r0n0xthats good
SmokinGruntslol soz, when I hear motor I think bigger; 'tis what I'm used to at work
SmokinGruntsI could still machine you a couple of baby guys tho
SmokinGruntswhat do you want?
SmokinGruntsalso, summin' that small ain't got room for a keyway really, maybe just a flat
SmokinGruntsbut I got a 3d printer too, if you wanna give me dimensions
tawrno need for a keyway SmokinGrunts
tawreven on several kw brushless motors, usually a set screw, or blue loctite on the bore is more than enough
r0n0xdont worry about it
electrobotstvn just linked to Lorne Meets Lorne Part 4 - YouTube
Viper-7dammit, rarely have that issue... this fet is too good.
Viper-7pfet, source is connected to a lipo, so up to 4.2V, gate is driven by 3.3V logic, gate threshold is 0.45V, so i cant actually turn it off >.<
nohopThat is a funny problem to have :)
timemageViper-7, if you're going from a gpio pin i suppose you could pull it down and then set the pin to input.
timemageViper-7, ah, pfet
Viper-7timemage: yeah thats what im doing - its a 5V tolerant IO so it wont actually clamp, so SHOULD be ok
Viper-7(pulling it up)
timemageViper-7, yeah, that makes sense.
CasperViper-7: or diodes?
Viper-7this whole arrangement is a micro-optimization anyway - im disabling the vreg and shorting it out once Vbatt falls below 3.6V, to save on quiescent draw and get some more battery life
tawrViper-7: pm
Viper-7tawr: that would require a fucks capacitor
hanetzerViper-7: oh would you look at that, the last fuck I had just blew a capacitor
Viper-7oh ESP-12S
Viper-7y u so few io
g0zdamn I gotta scrounge up another lm386 I think. or I'm missing something else wrong in this circuit.
SmokinGruntsm2.54x4 screws
SmokinGruntsI'll package all the files and put em somewhere, prolly github. I'll include the proper connector (HFW32S-2STE1LF)
SmokinGruntsI changed the footprints to 0603 so soldering is simpler
SmokinGruntsalso, I left it up to you whether to place resistors as pullups or pulldowns
zhanx@tawr why you modded up?
hanetzerSmokinGrunts: dude, that's sick
SmokinGruntsthank you!
hanetzerSmokinGrunts: looks really pro, indeed! I've got a lpc debug thingie for my mini-pcie wifi adapter on the laptop headed this way, hopefully I can make some good progress regarding origami ec :)
SmokinGruntsI left ya options: ground strip, all mounting holes be grounded, and even clippy-style test-points
SmokinGruntsaye, where are you stuck on the origami lib? I cloned it, so perhaps I can help there too
SmokinGruntsACTION left it on the linux partition
SmokinGruntsACTION re-clones
SmokinGrunts right?
hanetzerSmokinGrunts: well, the trick is that the interesting parts of the kbc on my laptop are in a theoretical datasheet which I cannot locate, so I'm going to have to make due with a partially redacted datasheet for a similar model
SmokinGruntsI hate it when that happens!
hanetzerthat and disassembling the stock firmware
SmokinGruntstime to buttpirate the lines
hanetzerfreud weeps
SmokinGruntskeyboard controller, do you know which IC it is?
SmokinGruntsor is it even
hanetzerI have a bus pirate, and an open workbench logic analyzer. have some lpc debug adapter on the way, also need to make a similar thing to that breakout to do mini-pcie to pin header breakout
SmokinGruntsis that an 8170 notebook by chance?
hanetzerSmokinGrunts: ene kb3940q-a1. closest thing I've found is a 3930 with some redacted stuff.
hanetzernope. hp pavilion g7-2247us
hanetzerSmokinGrunts: whyzzat?
SmokinGruntsfile:///C:/Users/PhilL_000/Downloads/f95a7b09-acb2-4a72-98f2-8a54f26aa8a1.pdf#page=21 ctrl-f "keyboard controller"
SmokinGruntsI always do that
SmokinGruntsthen page 21
SmokinGruntsDuring Research and Development, I like the 'funnel approach,' which is one of 'casting a wide net,' and gradually zeroing-in on the target information
hanetzerah nope, this isn't h8 based. its one of those 8051's
hanetzerthough I do know of someone who did work on that, I think... gimme a sec
hanetzerpassword2: moin :)
acetolineaside from a stepper motor, what other kind of motor has an armature with a nice set of 8 windings arranged in a circle?
password2hows it going in electronics land?
hanetzerpassword2: full of magick smoke and flux fumes :P
password2the serial port on esp32 is just standard serial ports?
password2i feel like making my own esp32 board for my desk light
SmokinGruntskb3940 is the controller
password2but can buy just the controller on a board?
hanetzerSmokinGrunts: yeah. handles battery, keyboard, and the actual power switch-> on stuff.
hanetzerpassword2: prolly, me and SmokinGrunts are talkin' bout something else.
SmokinGruntshere's 3930...
SmokinGruntsprobably damn near similar
hanetzerSmokinGrunts: yeah, that's the partially redacted one I have
SmokinGruntsI'll send an email to my Taiwan contact, see if they can't come thru
hanetzerSmokinGrunts: if you could that would be boss af :D
owen-EEHey all, looking for a DMM (bench or handheld) suitable for measuring current in the nA / uA range. Preferably with integration capabilities (or datalogging) - for the purpose of estimating power usage in an IoT device. Budget is $500 to $1000 USD. Any reccomendations?
Bird|otherboxowen-EE, oof. does it need to be a *multimeter*?
owen-EEBird|otherbox: nope :)
Bird|otherboxit seems like burden voltage would be an issue as well, no, owen-EE?
owen-EEwas originally looking at the uCurrent Gold, but they seem pretty hard to get these days. Anything that fills the above spec is perfect
owen-EEBird|otherbox: Certainly, which is why I've accepted the high budget :P
kmc> We've reached peak "San Francisco": a house selling for over $5 million that can be paid for with Bitcoin ????
kmcWe've reached peak "San Francisco": a house selling for over $5 million that can be paid for with Bitcoin ????
SmokinGruntsthey'll probably get back to me tomorrow
SmokinGrunts"sometiiiimes it's Heaven out here... Sometiiiimes it's hard to tell..."
electrobotSmokinGrunts just linked to (Pete Bernhard - "Heaven" - YouTube)
SmokinGruntsIt don't do logging
SmokinGruntsbut for my IoT shit I use EEVBlog's uCurrent meter
owen-EESmokinGrunts: Yeah, the logging is easy enough when coupled with regular meter :)
SmokinGruntssince it gives voltage out, just hook into an oscope
owen-EEI'd love a uCurrent, but everywhere seems to be out
SmokinGruntsuCurrent Gold?
SmokinGruntshe ran outta stock!
owen-EEas did Adafruit :P
SmokinGruntswell, I'm sure if you send Dave a message he'll let you know when to expect some
SmokinGruntsotherwise, you can always check out his schematic and build one yourself...
SmokinGruntstho that'd suck balls
hanetzeranywho, sleepy time. later SmokinGrunts, mayhaps we'll work something cool out for this yet!
owen-EEyeah, considering it. Pretty busy with the actual project though :P
SmokinGruntsaye matey, g'night hanetzer
SmokinGruntssounds like a plan
tawrzhanx: still around
password2well he can procrastinate quite a bit with his projects
password2hi tawr !
tawrhey bud :) I'm sorry for what I'm about to do. you're going to hate me after this.
password2leave my anus alone!
SmokinGruntslol which one of you is Dave??
tawrworse than that, check your pm's. i sent you a pic of my 18" long meat
SmokinGruntshogleg huh
password2this world i live in is too fucked up for some people
tawrSmokinGrunts: i made a 2 pound tomahawk steak
tawri was showing him. it was superb and surpassed my expectations by an amount I didn't think was possible
SmokinGruntsnow I gotta hankerin' fer a good steak
SmokinGruntsthanks a lot.
tawrit gets worse, check pm.
password2and people are fucking dumb!
SmokinGruntstawr that steak looks great, but the outside could be a liiiiiiiittle more charred
SmokinGruntsyou do reverse sear ever?
SmokinGruntsif not, HIGHLY recommend
tawri'm not real big on char. don't get me wrong, I like bark on briskets and such, but I didn't want to risk anything like that on this, i've never made it before
password2so we have severe( like in 50L rations per day) droughts here
password2now people are donating water
password2which is fine , but their buying the expensive store bought tuff
password2fuck , send the people tap water , but instead of 20 5L botles , buy an 1000L water tank and fill it up for next to nothing
tawryeah password2
SmokinGruntsNot too much char, mind. Just enough for an amazing juxtaposition of color, high-contrast style :)
tawrbut the issue is a lot of places won't accept that
SmokinGruntsbut it looks fuckin' yummo anyhow
tawrthanks. i do a LOT of smoking and not much grilling now days
password2what places?
tawri overshot the temp by ~6 degrees at the center, so it's actually more cooked than I normally like, but it was still amazing
password2tawr, the farmers have t so bad that they are watereing their crops by digging them up and dropping water directly onto the roots
tawrpassword2: the kind like you're talking about. the issue is sterilizing and filtering bulk water may be beyond their capabilities
tawroh I thought you meant potable water for humans, not for farming
password2tap water is fine
password2they still have drinkable water
password2just not a lot
password2each person may only use 50L/day
password2the city alone will need 500ML/day
password2their currently using more than that , which means the city is going to turn of the water pumps
password2now is the time to have your own water plant there
password2because its right next to the ocean and the air is also humid
restoreras far as steaks go, I like my ribeye with a bit of good char and enough even cooking to reduce the raw chewiness of the varying tissues... but I like my strip steak salted well, charred hard, and bright red inside
password2i like mine blue
password2but i don't buy tbones as often anymor
password2t has gotten too expensive for me
restorer...given my cooking equipment over the last several years, it's been a while since I've cooked strip steak
password2and with the draughts , its going to get much worse
restoreroverall I enjoy ribeye more
password2almost itme to turn my computer off for the day
restorerhere I don't even bother with good steak because there's no way to get any sort of char, even difficult to get an okay crust on a thick ribeye without setting off the smoke alarm
Mr_Furyi nearly turned off my computer for good dealing with windows 10
Mr_Furyone of the worst pieces of software ever written
SmokinGruntsyeah screw 10
SmokinGruntsACTION be still on 8.1
restorermy entire experience with 10 has been hell
Mr_Furyi downgraded back to 7
password2Mr_Fury, going without a coputer for a food few hours is so relaxing
restorerand that was JUST to let it update, then blit that minimum system directly to image so I could wipe it
SmokinGruntspassword2 I don't understand the concept...
Mr_Furyrester, smokin yes along with MS forced updates even after you edit services in regedit
Mr_Furypassword, you're right, there are other things to life other than machines
restorerMr_Fury: at the time, I was really hoping to have a usable laptop before I left for the day
Mr_FuryOh, and let me tell you DX12 is garbage since no games really support it
password2SmokinGrunts, my theory is that in todays world you brain just gets too much input , especially from internet
restorerbut no, mandatory updates crept along
Mr_Furyrestorer, then what happened?
password2backk in the daypeople used to wonder what some word meant for months on end
SmokinGruntslive music, nice butts/boobs, comedy clubs, tasty food, and doggos
Mr_Furyi know, that's all i've been dealing with, updates that destroy the machine
password2SmokinGrunts, I'm talking about cutting off outside stimulus
Mr_FuryMS stupid updates caused my pci bus to crash my laptop till i turned that feature off
SmokinGruntsaye, I was just kiddin'. It's really needed every now-and-then
Mr_Furytheir stupid drivers cause my games to crash
password2it makes my weekend feel twice as long
restoreras SOON as they were done, I said fuck it, booted an Ubuntu image, resized the Windows parition as small as I could, and imaged it to an external backup
Mr_Furylol smokin, ah
restorerand then wiped the lot and installed Ubuntu
Mr_Furyrestorer, that makes sense
Mr_Furyi used ubuntu for a while, it's a usable OS
restorerI kept Windows installed on my Thinkpad, but only because it came with 7
Mr_Furyunfortunately for games i think windows is the best
Mr_Fury7 is a good OS with updates, and who cares about MS Edge and DX12, those selling points are moot with chrome, firefox, and vulcan
restoreralas, it's been a long time since I've (even tried to) game anything where windows would make a big difference
Mr_Furynewer developers aren't even supporting MS features
password2linux is getting there in terms of game support , but its taking foreever
Mr_Furypassword, how is nvidia driver support?
Mr_Furyrestorer, i completely understand
restorerall the games I've bought over the last few years are on Steam and run in Linux
password2idk , my gfx card is more than 10 years old now
password2i think 12-13years
Mr_Furypassword, oh wow, which one?
R0b0t1Some people have really bad luck with nvidia, but then other people have really good luck
restorerI'm still just on a sub-$400 laptop
R0b0t1I don't like the fact the drivers are closed, but all nvidia cards I've used have worked for me, and some were at the time very new
Mr_Furyrestorer, who cares as long as it works
restorerI guess the added RAM pushes it over 400, but it's still only 8 gigs
Mr_Furynvidia has always been superior to ati
Mr_Furywhen it came to drivers and power efficiency
SmokinGruntsI've had great success with my nvidia quadro whatever and *nix
Mr_Furyrestorer, not bad
Mr_Furydo you do rendering and cad smokin?
Mr_Furyvery nice
SmokinGruntsain't a thing on my lappy-top
password2##hardware should know better
Mr_Furysmokin, oh okay
restorerwith Chrome's terrible memory consumption (leaks?) in linux, I get major thrashing if I have too much open and/or I haven't quit Chrome in more than 2 weeks
Mr_Furyrestorer, how many tabs do you have open in chrome?
SmokinGruntsalthough it's been a while since I made a scene in 3dsmax
SmokinGruntsbut gta5 runs fine on ultra!
restorerMr_Fury: I recently wiped them all out, so now only 20
Mr_Furythat's fine, i generally have no more than six or eight tabs open
restorerMr_Fury: and many of them are suspended with The Great Suspender extension
Mr_Furysmokin, nice
Mr_Furyoh okay restorer
SmokinGruntssolidworks can be a butthole sometimes, but usually only when trying to import terribly-made STL files with too many vertices
Mr_Furywe use solidworks a lot at our office, at least the engineers do
restorerbut before I did that the other day, I had 3 windows open with 40+ tabs each, and another 2 with 10 or 20
SmokinGruntshow much RAM
restoreralmost all suspended, but that still adds up, and the main chrome process just grows and grows regardless
Mr_Furyoh okay restorer, what kind of specs on your machine?
Mr_Furysmokin, usually 16 gb
Mr_Furyi work in an engineering firm
SmokinGruntsaye thank god for 'the great suspender'
restorerMr_Fury: with 8GB RAM
Mr_Furythis is your machine restorer?
SmokinGruntsDell precision m6800 with 32GB ram :D
Mr_Furysmokin, impressive machine
SmokinGruntsACTION whispers "Thank you boss!"
restorerMr_Fury: yeah, my 'upgrade' from the refurb C2D Thinkpad
restorerI have no desktop, because no desk (and no money)
SmokinGruntsI had an Aspire before that; good budget machine
SmokinGruntsAcer has good peripheral coverage :)
Mr_Furyrestorer, who cares as long as it works
Mr_Furyacer makes good computers, i wish i had one
restorerthis is certainly nicer than the Thinkpad, except for the trackpad, which I've pretty much permanently disabled and now use a Logitech M570 trackball
Mr_Furythis is my overpriced piece of garbage i run
restorerMr_Fury: well, I care :P
Mr_Furywell now viao corporation
Mr_Furyi went with the hype unfortunately
Mr_Furyrestorer, good, if you like it, why not
SmokinGruntsdidja learn better?
restorermostly because it's still damn hard to do proper development on a budget-y laptop with no furniture
Mr_Furyyes that i'm an idiot for wasting $1200
SmokinGruntslive and learn.
Mr_Furynext time i'll go with asus
restorerdespite the screen limitations, I'd much rather have a MacBook Air as my laptop
restorerand a proper desktop for home
Mr_Furyrestorer, as long as the machine works
restoreryes, I shouldn't be complaining
Mr_Furyor buy one of theese
restorerI bought this laptop as a stepping stone so I could *actually* do *some* work, and earn my way back up to something nicer
Mr_Furyrestorer, ah as long as its a workhorse who cares
Mr_Furydon't be an idiot like me and buy something overpriced
restorerI don't know what that means in this context, but alright
restorerthe only overpriced things I buy are Apple laptops, and even that's debatable ;P
restorer(not debatable that SOME are, just that the ones I buy are)
Mr_Furyi think the only time to buy an apple laptop would be if you were into content creation and had to run final cut pro
SmokinGruntsfuck. Listen to this guys:
electrobotSmokinGrunts just linked to (Lake Street Dive - Rich Girl (Live @Pickathon 2013) - YouTube)
SmokinGruntsdem pipes!
Mr_Furyor possibly into cartoons and animation and wanted to draw
Mr_Furythis is a sweet machine
Mr_Furyor the dell xps 13"
restorerI'm aiming for a used 2015-ish MacBook Air when I'm able
restorerbut I think the desktop (and monitors, and peripherals... and maybe a 3D printer) come first ;)
SmokinGruntsDave_Elec are you the Dave we were looking for?
restorerACTION waves hand
restorernot the dave you're looking for
CasperACTION wonders why restorer wave a cut off hand...
Mr_Furyrestorer i'd say forget the apple
Mr_Furydo you want to specifically do work on mac os?
SmokinGruntsstvn wtf was that kid-fucker stuff about before
SmokinGruntsthat vidya-meme you linked earlier
Mr_Furyor why not use vmware and run mac os on a windows machine?
restorerMr_Fury: what laptop would you recommend that's small, well-built, and as much a joy to use hardware-feel-wise and finish-wise as a MacBook Air?
Mr_Furyor try and hackintosh it
acetolinerestorer: Dell XPS 13
Mr_Furyi agree
restorerI have no more loyalty to Mac OS, or even Apple, given the last few years
Mr_FuryThe Dell XPS 13 is beautiful machine, as is the asus
restorerbut I still love their laptop hardware... from 3 years ago
acetolinesorry to be a bit of a downer, but you really shouldn't have had any loyalty in the first place.
Mr_Furyi don't know, you can buy the XPS 13 for $799 right now
acetolineat some point in time I found myself being 'loyal' to Samsung, and I quickly snapped myself out of it
restoreracetoline: I was indoctrinated into it from early childhood :P
acetolineand now I'm ashamed that I let it happen, even for a short while
Mr_Furywhy be loyal? always buy what's best for you
Mr_Furyaceotline, that isn't a big deal, at one point i was obsessed with sony
Mr_Furyuntil i realized their idiotic way of proprietary tech was ruining their product
restorerMr_Fury: that WAS my loyalty - preferring the Apple products because they WERE better, for me, at the time
Mr_Furyrestorer, unfortunately not anymore
acetolineI also guess working for a large multinational company also changed my thinking on this a bit
Mr_Furyacetoline, i see
Mr_Furyrestorer, i'd say buy what makes you happy, we own a late-2013 skylake imac
acetolinecompanies treat their 'loyal' customers as toilet paper. Basically they think of them as a guaranteed market that they have to do nothing to please.
Mr_Furyand it's a beautiful machine
restorerI had a work laptop, the last MacBook Pro before the touchbar versions, and that was great
acetolinenothing except keep marketing to them to keep them loyal
Mr_Furyyes but apple ruined their machines with lack of upgradeability, usb type c exclusively, and their touch bar
restorereven my G5 iMac was very nice, at the time
Mr_Furyi wouldn't mind buying a used G5 tower and upgrading the internals
Mr_Furyrestorer are you into graphic design?
Mr_Furyweb development?
restorernope, I'm terrible at it
restorerweb dev, yes, just not the design part
Mr_Furyits okay
restoreranything before the "here's the layout we want" is off limits for me :)
Mr_Furyyou don't need anything powerful, at least i'm assuming you don't
Mr_Furyoh okay restorer, so you do all the backend stuff?
Mr_Furydatabases, scripts
restorerhey, at least now I have EC2 spot instances for the one-off computation heavy things
Mr_Furygood man, listen if you want a good machine get the XPS 13
Mr_Furyhave you seen or heard of it?
restoreryeah, I prefer the backend, but I can work on the frontend programming part too
restorerheard of it, of course
restorerhaven't bothered to look into it too deeply yet
restorerit's been out of my price range
Mr_Furyi understand, well if your current machine is working then who cares
restorerwait wait, the latest one ALSO has no USB-A ports?
Mr_Furyi don't know, i think the latest macbook pro only has usb type c
restorerMr_Fury: one thing that's a major concern to me with laptops is the functionality and feel of the trackpad
restoreryeah, I won't touch the new MacBook either :P
Mr_Furyrestorer, then you want something that supports windows precision drivers
restorerMr_Fury: no, because I won't be using Windows ;P
Mr_Furywhy not just build a hackintosh
Mr_Furyjust find a way to run mac os on a windows machine
restorerbecause I don't particularly want to run OS X either
Mr_Furythen go with a linux distro
restorer...uh, yes
restorerI've been on Ubuntu since 2009
restorerso the trackpad has to not only play nice (like, nicer than basic) with linux drivers, but also have good finish & polish (as far as construction and feel go, not texture)
restoreralright, the XPS 13 is on my list for that later upgrade
restorerbut I guess I have SO much ELSE that needs to be bought, changed, or upgraded sooner
restorerI think this laptop will be handy enough with twice the RAM again, a good stand on a good desk, a nice keyboard, and a good primary monitor
restorerpeople hate to hear it, but my favorite keyboard is the Apple Wired Keyboard
stvnhi sir
restorerACTION salutes
restorerit must be late, I'm going on far too much
stvnubuntu will explode my lenovo
restorerso, I had forgotten: that "USB bar" I wanted to hook up to my 5V 20A supply? it's actually a really crappy USB charger that's not only poorly designed, but never worked in the first place
restorerand my plan was to remove all the components except the USB ports, and use it that way with an external supply
restorerI'm not entirely sure how well that will work anymore
restoreroooh, through hole micro USB sockets
SmokinGruntsmy friends are getting a divorce!
SmokinGruntshe's a navy medic, and she's a stripper!
SmokinGruntsso not too surprising.
restorerthere's a joke there, but I can't make it flow
kmcdid he meet her while she was working at a strip club
restorersomething fixing bodies at sea something something fixing to see her body?
MetaNovarestorer: haw!
restorerkmc: probably more likely than her meeting him at his job ;)
SmokinGruntsrestorer A+++ to Dell XPS
SmokinGruntsit's very similar to mine own Precision
SmokinGruntsget a fuckload of RAM and be happy
restorerI wonder if there's any good way to take a laptop for an extended test drive
restorerthere's no way to fully evaluate a trackpad & keyboard in-store
SmokinGruntsbuy from a seller with good warranty
restoreroh right, the Costco method
kmcconvince your friend to buy it ;)
SmokinGruntsthere's good ol' benchmarking-aggregate sites
restorermy first college roommate returned his first-quarter laptop to Costco during winter break and bought a new one :D
SmokinGruntsget an i7 if you can, and plug in datas to the aggregate sites
SmokinGruntsgood man
SmokinGruntsI used to work at Costco back in the day
SmokinGruntsDeli worker
SmokinGruntsmany, many years ago
SmokinGruntsvery nice company to work for
restorerI still don't know if an i7 would be worth it for me over an i5
SmokinGruntsand they still have the hotdog and soda for $2.50!
DaddyEricbelieve me its worth it
SmokinGruntsget it
restorerI still don't know exactly the difference, and what that difference makes in my use cases
DaddyEricI have a Precision M6500 with an I7 and its 10 years old
SmokinGruntsget it and be confident that you have a system to last ~8 years
restorer$2.50? where are you? it's always been $1.50 here
DaddyEricand dell is a great company, if you buy a dell laptop dont forget the warranty
restorerignoring the MacBook Air I sold, all my laptops have lasted 8 years ;P
restorerthough they were both top-of-the-line-at-the-time for their model...
SmokinGruntsrestorer you might be right, it's been a while since I've had that lunch :x
Viper-7hmm, might work...
SmokinGruntsyup, $1.50 fer sure
kmcmy wife's main machine is a thinkpad I bought refurbed in 2011 for $250, it is probably 10 or 11 years old at this point
kmcwith a cheap RAM and SSD upgrade it is still totally usable
restorerthe only reason my MacBook wasn't "usable" longer than 8 years was because it was the first model, and only 32-bit, so it quite forcibly got left behind
kmcmy friend is using an X40 with 256 MB of RAM but he had to cut down the linux install quite a bit
restorerbut even then it get skippier with an SSD
kmcmeanwhile a single web browser tab from a fucking newspaper will use 256 MB of RAM
restorerI can't decide if this laptop needs more RAM first or an SSD
SmokinGrunts^ Viper-7 is nice board!
genr8_i know what we should do. all use javascript and use all our apps on the web and make really slow software
kmcif you are RAM-limited then noscript is essential
Viper-7ty :D
SmokinGruntsACTION digs castellations
kmcgenr8_: and if you want to make a native app, it should be a webapp running inside its own copy of webkit
kmcand also vulnerable to web security bugs
genr8_Electron and CEF are beautiful snowflakes
kmctruly astounding how we got to such an utterly fucked situation
SmokinGruntsViper-7 what's final board dimensions?
SmokinGruntscuz I think I want one... Shit, esp12!
Viper-769x31 mm
restorerViper-7: what's that for?
SmokinGruntsvery nice!
kmcwhen you first start studying programming it seems like so many new things are being invented all the time... eventually you realize that 95% of it is things that have already been done, reimplemented worse by people who never bothered to learn about the past
kmcthe pace of actual progress is glacial
genr8_reinventing the wheel
SmokinGruntsas it should be!
SmokinGruntsC is still most-used because of it's... Glaciality?
SmokinGruntsis that a thing?
kmcC and C++ are due for a refresh though. especially C++. you can't just keep piling new features indefinitely like that
kmcC has the virtue of being simple, but it's also archaic in a lot of ways
Viper-7i think thats public
kmcimo C99 is a lot better than C89
kmcI have not used C11 stuffs
kmcalso C compilers have gotten way better
kmcprogress there is not slow
electrobotSmokinGrunts just linked to (You reposted in the wrong neighborhood (Full version) - YouTube)
SmokinGruntsACTION does a jive
kmcthe amount of static and dynamic analysis available to the common programmer through clang is very impressive
kmcand it wasn't like that even 5 years ago
kmcso in a sense C is getting safer even though the language isn't changing
genr8_we're also learning how to secure C like buffer overflows and stuff where nobody cared about that stuff before
kmcI would still rather see less software written in C
kmcfor security reasons among others
SmokinGruntswhat lang. *would* ye prefer, kmc?
kmcdepends on the task
genr8_javascript cant even figure out undefined/null
SmokinGruntslessay embedded
SmokinGruntsPOS system sorta thing
kmcRust is a promising choice for embedded
kmcbut it's not proven yet
SmokinGruntsoh I wanna get into Rust
genr8_Rust is a good bet
kmcI also think C++ can be used quite well for embedded
SmokinGruntsI keep hearing AMAZING things
kmcbut you need very expert people
kmcI like the metaprogramming abilities in C++1x
kmcvery powerful
SmokinGruntsalso IRC, although most other channels ain't nearly as great as this one......
kmcmy friend just implemented compile time merge sort in C++ templates... at an actual, well-known company which had an actual real world use case for this
kmctemplates + constexpr
SmokinGrunts17 channels and this one gets the largest portion of attention from me
kmcRust is almost as complicated as C++, but it's more useful complexity than historical complexit
kmcC++ still has the edge on metaprogramming, imo
SmokinGruntsyears of vetting+ is a good sign
kmcfwiw there's a #rust-embedded on
kmcthis japaric guy hangs out there, he has a good blog as well
SmokinGruntsyour friend is a madman!
SmokinGruntsI wont touch compiletime specifics
SmokinGruntsnot my cuppa
kmche's the kind of guy who posts stackoverflow questions that stump people on the C++ committee
SmokinGruntsYamakaja: I ain't good enough!
SmokinGruntsthat was supposed to be an 'AKA'
SmokinGruntskmc ever see the dude who made 'hello world' with... fuck... it was a magic story but I forgot the context and can't find it anywhere
SmokinGruntsI think I saw it on Reddit... Like 3-6 months ago?
SmokinGruntshe pulled some magic tricks and was able to do Hello World in a way I've NEVER heard
SmokinGruntsand it was awesome... and I thought I had it bookmarked... but maybe that was a linux bookmark
SmokinGruntsfound it!
SmokinGruntsno print allowed
SmokinGruntsno, that wasn't it...
SmokinGruntsvery close though
genr8_watch this video when you get a chance
electrobotgenr8_ just linked to Breaking the x86 Instruction Set - YouTube
genr8_Hidden X86 instructions
weyland|yutaniViper-7, isnt that brainfuck?
Viper-7Hello, World! in brainfuck :P
AnononAhi all is there any known channels for hobbyists for model trains and trains sets
AnononAanyhelp is greatly appreciated
kmcAnononA: #trains a bit
kmcit is mostly about full size trains but sometimes modeling comes up
kmcanyway they may be able to suggest another channel
AnononAawsome thanks heapz guys
SmokinGruntsAnononA whats up
SmokinGruntsSORRY IM NOT AT YOUR BECK-AND-CALL! but srsly tho, what's going on?
SmokinGruntsthere for sure has to be
SmokinGruntsmy grandpa had this HUGE set in his basement, LOVED trains
SmokinGruntsAnononA give us more details!
AnononAim actually enquiring as my dads setting back up his set but ita good to know a place if we get stuck
SmokinGruntsis your dad's name Chuck by any chance?
SmokinGruntsslash Charles
SmokinGruntsAnononA if ye get stuck, this be a good of a place as any to get to solvin' whatever the prob may be
SmokinGruntsalso, if yer pops' name be Chuck, we're prolly related.
SmokinGruntsthat'd be one helluva small world.
AnononAnah its not mate we are from australia victoria
SmokinGruntsI see, I just did a whois
SmokinGruntsyou seemed like my cousin fer a sec
SmokinGruntsanyhow, what sorta set you guys got goin'?
SmokinGruntsalso, pics?
SmokinGruntsMe ol' gpa painstakingly modeled every last detail
SmokinGruntsShit, I grew up in his workshop... Wouldn't be where I am today if that wasn't the case
AnononAwow man sounds cool thanks for the tips smokey much appreciated
Evil-CorpIn my opinion, Space-X should have considered other songs to be played in the vacum of space as the Tesla roadster moves past Mars...Tesla (the band, not the genius)-remake of Deep Purple's "Space Truckin' "..or Trooper's "Spaceship Superstar"...nobody in #music seemed to know about "Big Falcon Rocket"...strange....and sorry for interupting. :)
SmokinGruntsI haven't really given any tips though...
SmokinGruntsthanks... I guess?
kmcEvil-Corp: haha
Viper-7SmokinGrunts: it seems odd that it was playing space oddity, with "starman" behind the wheel :P
kmcyeah elon musk has a bit ruined a classic bowie song
SmokinGruntsspace truckin' woulda been tops
kmcoh I thougcht it was playing starman
kmceither way
SmokinGruntswtf why do I not get beeps on PM
kmcI'm pissed he launched a car because it's like a perfect symbol of how humans have fucked up our own environment -- not just carbon emissions but the design of cities, etc
kmcso perhaps it's a warning to others
Viper-7it was an electric car...
Evil-Corpstarman is a good song...but there are some more fitting a dummy heading to the asteroid belt.
acetolineI like that the frequency in induction cookers is referred to as 'high frequency'
acetolineI looked it up. 24 KHz.
SmokinGruntsAnononA brew! I wanna see your model train setup!
Evil-CorpI am guessing that car is loaded with Jell-o in the glovebox.
jaggztElon's jello going to mars?
jaggztthink lots of rich people are informed about what where the planet is heading and are making their plans?
Evil-CorpOf course, anything from Ford..GM etc. already is loaded with cans in the doors..mix of metric and standard bolts...hilarious.
jaggztwith AI that examines all the research and environment data/history and has told them, "mm hmm."
jaggztI'm not sure what's going on with this mobile's camera:
electrobotjaggzt just linked to
kmcdead hooker in the trunk
AnononAsmokey its getting pieced as soon as its up ill post a photo
jaggztI think I get better pictures with manual focus
AnononAwhat do you think of bachmann trains online they any hood
AnononAgood ** smokey???
kmcViper-7: yes, it's an electric car but that only PARTLY solves ONE of the many problems with a car-focused society
Evil-CorpOr live hooker...still hanging in there.
Viper-7well... for better or worse, it IS our society
SmokinGruntsAnononA aye matey
SmokinGruntsI like this 'Smokey' nickname
Evil-CorpFlintstone car solves most of our problems....
Viper-7but who is the bandit?
AnononAand do you have any photos of yours
SmokinGruntsthat was some 20 years ago
SmokinGrunts20 to 25 years I suppose
SmokinGruntsI'm sure I have photos *somewhere,* but for certain not on-hand
AnononAoh ok have you herd of bachmann the brand of trains
AnononAthats what brand everything basically is for this new set
Evil-CorpOk electronics time...can a group MOSFET's be triggered by the same source without having to be isolated from each is a setup being considerd for starting multiple dc generators at the same intervals.
usryes ofc
usrassuming you have enough voltage
usrsince voltage actually isn't ideal
kmcyeah. each gate acts like a capacitor
kmcyou'll need gate drive current that (for a given desired speed) is proportional to the number of transistors
kmcbut it's the gate-source voltage that drives the transistor (right?) so if they are actually isolated as in, on different power supplies then it won't work
usrgate-source drives the mosfet
Evil-CorpBut isn't that trigger voltage then divided between those sources ?...maybe that is the problem.
usrEvil-Corp: should be neglible
kmcif you put 10 caps between Vcc and ground, they all charge up to Vcc voltage
Viper-7they'd be in parallel, not series
kmcright, in parallel
SmokinGruntsAnononA I haven't heard of it 'till now
Viper-7as for current, adding something like a MCP14E4 would ensure sufficient drive current is available
Viper-7but as mentioned, the source of the FETs will need to be common
Evil-CorpOk...I think our tech...missed that class :)
SmokinGruntsbut then again I was always an observer of my Grandfather's train-machinations
kmcy'know, we should have a bot that recognizes part numbers and auto links to the datasheet
kmcand says how much they cost :P
usrkmc that would be a great idea
AnononAthayve been round since the 1860s
usrViper-7: why would that help?
usr"The MCP14E3/MCP14E4/MCP14E5 devices are a family of 4.0A buffers/MOSFET drivers. Dual-inverting, dual-noninvertering, and complementary outputs are standard logic options offered."
AnononAthere pretty known but at the same time 20 yets ago what was your hrandfather using
usryes yes EE hasn't changed in years
usrwe know
Viper-7usr: depends on the mosfets, their gate charge, and the rate that they need to be switched at - since it doesnt sound like it'd be doing PWM or such, its probably not a big issue either way, but it would if nothing else minimize switching losses
Evil-CorpBot's have been around since the 1860's ?
AnononAthe brand name
AnononAwhat not sure about everyrhinf they make tho
usrViper-7: Just wondering what specifically this mosfet provides
AnononAnot sure ***
Viper-7its not a mosfet, its a mosfet gate driver
usrthese mosfet drivers*
Evil-CorpThanks usr..
kmcmy grandfather worked on Explorer 1 or one of the other early USA satellites
usrthat's cool KMC
kmche said they were doing a final pre-flight check and found tons of cold solder joints that had to be re-done at the last minute
AnononAthat is cool
AnononAmy great grandfather tried to rewrite the bible got kicked out of the church hahaha
AnononAwhat a legend
usrViper-7: you add those drivers on the DS ?
Viper-7usr: normal IO pins can only source/sink like 5-20mA of current, if its a logic level power mosfet, the gate capacitance could be something like 20nF. this means it would take something on the order of 100us to actually transition from off to on or vice-versa, as the gate capacitance is charged/discharged from the available current
kmcthat is awesome
kmcalright I gotta sleep, ttyl all
Viper-7worse, if you have eg 10 mosfets in parallel, then that would be more like 1ms to turn on/off
usrViper-7: ah i see
usrViper-7: how are you calculating the time?
Viper-7if you were eg, trying to do PWM at 20kHz, this would be utterly unworkable, the fets would never be fully on or fully off, they'd be held in a linear region, and their dissipation would be huge.
Viper-7usr: RC time constant, *5 to be safe to actually reach full voltage
usrah kk
Viper-7so the gate driver is a buffer that sits between your IO pin and the gate, to drive it with higher currents, and make the fet transition near instantly, preventing switching losses, and allowing significantly higher switching frequencies
SmokinGruntslol bibles
SmokinGruntsgimme a bible of butts
Viper-7you do have to temper their output, usually with a series resistor to the gate, because slamming 4A into the gate, will yes switch the FET very quickly, but that will also emit a nasty spike of EMI
SmokinGruntsand I'll show you 'last week'
Viper-7but yeah, when talking about switching FETs in parallel, it can certainly help to have more drive current available
usrViper-7: So resistor doesn't work because of the EMI?
usrand that's why the driver is preferred?
usrViper-7: "to temper their output, usually with a series resistor to the gate, because slamming 4A into the gate, will yes switch the FET very quickly, but that will also emit a
usrto temper their output, usually with a series resistor to the gate, because slamming 4A into the gate, will yes switch the FET very quickly, but that will also emit a
usr"Nasty spike of EMI"
Viper-7yes, so you add a resistor, one which is a lower value than would've been allowed by your unbuffered IO pin, eg allowing maybe 100mA of drive current
Viper-7but preventing the full 4A of drive current being utilized for that single gate
usrah kk
Evil-CorpMaybe we should go back to sending guy with lowest seniority out in the cold to start the generators every few hours...that we know, usually worked...well okay sometimes you lose a dude or two in the blizzard, but that is in the job description.
Viper-7so you switch the FET substantially faster than you could've without the FET driver, but still not as fast as the FET driver could do it without such a restriction
Viper-7allowing you to strike a balance between switching losses and EMI
usrViper-7: Where did you learn this?
Viper-7over time :P
AnononAviper you sure know your stuff man
usrhah any books about this ?
Viper-7AnononA: im only a hobbyist heh, but thanks, i try
Viper-7usr: probably, but i dont know of any offhand
LordCrchmm i was sure i read that you should put a 20-100 ohm resistor on the gate input due to stability
Viper-7i learned more from datasheets / app notes than books
usrah kk
LordCrci should have saved that app note i think
AnononAapp notes ???
Viper-7LordCrc: indeed, but eg a 20 ohm resistor, from a microcontroller gpio, would allow 250mA, from an IO driver typically rated for like 10mA
Viper-7so you need a stronger source, a buffer to sit inbetween
LordCrcViper-7: oh yeah sure
Viper-7AnononA: application note, documents produced by vendors to give ideas / help in how to best use their parts
Evil-CorpI learn most of my stuff from that pakistani guy on youtube that always ends up electrocuting himself by the end of the lesson.
LordCrcfor example i just read this nice app note: "Practical Considerations of Trench MOSFET Stability when Operating in Linear Mode"
AnononAahh yeah nice thanks
Evil-CorpApologies to Viper7 if you are pakistani....
Viper-7australian :P
Viper-7but yeah electroboom is a good watch :P
Evil-CorpEven better :)
Evil-CorpI think he is canadian.
Viper-7i'm a big fan of that teaching style, same as like "how to write unmaintainable code" for programmers
Viper-7it shows you what not to do, and you read it with an evil grin thinking about how nasty you could be, which makes it fun
AnononAnice same bro aussie
Viper-7but you come away from it with a good understanding of what not to do when you're trying to do things "well" :P
Evil-CorpNo better way to get kids interested in electronics than to apply high voltage to yourself..
Viper-7and better yet, it even fills in the blanks for that eternal question of "why" :P
Viper-7"hey kids, this is why you dont play with a MOT.... *bzzzt* FUCK!"
hanetzerEvil-Corp: oh I'm aware of that guy.
Evil-CorpTo think that without the internet, stuff like that would be almost unknown....thanks internet.
Viper-7i more prefer the likes of photonicinduction, but thats not exactly as educational :P
Viper-7more just playing with big boys toys like a crazy person
Evil-CorpHanetzer...I think everyone has either heard of him..or seen his "lessons"....nobody can ever remember his name though.
hanetzerEvil-Corp: true, but in my case its not a good example because I'm only tangentally interested in EE stuff
Evil-CorpStill entertaining...
hanetzerpoint being is I'm less into that culture so I wouldn't know 'celeb' names as compared to someone who actually is. I do know dave from eevblog tho
LordCrcspeaking electroboom... "The Dumber you are the more likely you are to invent a lightbulb" :D
kevtristhat guy has told people to do some unsafe things
kevtrislike make an air conditioner using a fan and dry ice
kevtrisvs. a fan and regular ice
bunderi can't even watch that guy
bunderyoutube has so much cringey clickbait junk these days
SmokinGruntsnurdrage and ChemPlayer are great fer chem...
SmokinGruntsand kreosan for general antics
Viper-7kmc/usr: how about an MP1584?
SmokinGruntsalso ANYTHING by Ben Krasnow:
Viper-7hmm, that was less impressive than i'd hoped
Viper-7or an MCP1825 ?
Viper-7oh, derp
Viper-7kmc/usr: how about an MP1584?
Viper-7or an MCP1825 ?
electrobotMicrochip MCP1825 Series 500 mA Vout 3.3V CMOS LDO Regulator -
Viper-7will have to see how it goes, but prototyped at least :P
Viper-7how about a TP4056 ?
SmokinGruntsooh good mix
electrobotSmokinGrunts just linked to (Best of Trip-Hop & Downtempo & Lo-Fi & Nujazz Tracks I Missed - YouTube)
SmokinGruntsOh fuck yeah!
SmokinGruntsThat's nice work
FauxSmokinGrunts: looks pretty comedy with the battery attached.
SmokinGruntsprops though
Viper-7test for MP1584 ?
electrobotMonolithic Power Systems MP1584EN-LF-Z IC REG BUCK ADJ 3A ($1.46 ea @ 1k) -
Viper-7how about LM7805 ?
electrobotON Semiconductor LM7805ACT 3-Terminal 1A Positive Voltage Regulator ($0.38 ea @ 1k) -
elektrinisanyone tried to connect stepup dc/dc after linear transformer without a cap, as a way to improve power factor of liner transformer?
phinxyViper do the MCP16301.
electrobotMicrochip ADM00352 MCP16301 High Voltage Buck Converter 600 mA Demo Board ($19.99 ea @ 1k) -
Viper-7how about STM32F103 ?
electrobotSTMicroelectronics STM32F103C6T6A 32 Bit Microcontroller, Motor Control, ARM Cortex-M3, 72 MHz, 32 KB, 10 KB, 48, LQFP ($2.01 ea @ 1k) -
Viper-7PIC18F4550 ?
electrobotMicrochip PIC18F4550-I/PT 44 Pin 32 KB Enh Flash 2048 RAM FS-USB 2.0 ($3.84 ea @ 1k) -
Viper-7elektrinis: sounds... iffy
FauxStill can't believe is a real product, at $2 ea @ 1.
elektrinisit'a a reverse of for PFC'd SMPSes work...
Faux$12 shipping to the EU.
Viper-7$4 ea from
Viper-7ESP8266 is still cheaper if you're buying under 100 :P
electrobotOlimex ESP8266-EVB Dev.kit: WiFi; screw terminal, UEXT, pin header, supply ($13.24 ea @ 1k) -
ub|kis anyone into repairing old amplifiers? my 80s amplifier started making a crackling noise on the right channel. i've opened it up and everything seems normal.
ub|ki was wondering what I can do to troubleshoot it
ub|k(it's a Sanyo DCA203, btw)
Jan-hihi electrons
Jan-ACTION brings coffee and cake
Jan-hey vipes
Jan-how's it going
Viper-7not bad, made a random PCB today, now bracing myself for the horrors of work tomorrow
Jan-oh dear why is it a horror
Viper-7isnt it always? :P
Jan-I don't know. I don't know what you do for a job. I am lucky, I like my job.
Viper-7just a lot going on atm, people have just started testing the web app i built / converted, so waiting for a small flood of bug reports, and im now working on a new system which has a very vague definition, so it'll be a lot of guesswork
Jan-was it you who had the vape
Jan-how's that going
Viper-7loving it - only had one cigarette since i started, just to see what it was like now, i absolutely hated it
Viper-7am currently using a white chocolate flavoured juice, so yum! :D
Jan-they smell better than cigarettes.
Viper-7i've gone through less than $10 worth of juice since i started
Viper-7and would've spent nearly $1000 on cigarettes in that time...
Viper-7of course, i've spent probably $500 stocking up on vape equipment and whatnot, but thats a capex, not opex :P
Jan-also, you're dying much more slowly.
Viper-7really noticing the change in my lung capacity heh
Jan-isn't that quite a lot to spend on vapegear
Jan-oh really?
Jan-is it super noticeable?
Viper-7yeah absolutely
Viper-7easily twice what it was heh
Jan-well that's excellent
Viper-7its nuts
Jan-did I tell you about our buddy who runs a small company who has a small commercial unit at the top of a building
Viper-7not sure
Jan-found he could actually go all the way up the stairs in one go without pausing to gasp and wheeze, once he went onto a vape
Jan-it's universal really, this realisation of "christ I had no idea what I was doing to myself."
Viper-7as for a lot to spend, eh, kinda sorta - the units are about $80 each, and i have two of those now, just because it was a bit concerning to think that if one broke, i'd go back to cigarettes - tanks are like $15, which i have like 10 of now, so i can have them loaded up with different flavours and change over easily - and i've stocked up on enough vape juice to last me the next year,
Viper-7mainly because i'm still trying different flavours and learning what i like
Viper-7i find it very easy to justify, given the amount of money i'm saving by not buying cigarettes
Jan-well yes.
Jan-that and the not-dying-in-a-puddle-of-your-own-decaying-lung-tissue thing.
Viper-7and yeah, still getting used to it, its weird waking up not feeling like im being strangled by phlegm heh
Jan-anyway you're not the first person to not realise how terrible smoking is for you until you stopped.
Viper-7oh i knew, but its a vicious combination of addiction to nicotine, nicotine vapes being banned from sale in australia, and a self destructive streak while i was depressed, which formally ended when i started my new job
Viper-7but yeah, its damn nice to have broken free of such
Jan-I have heard this before, though. People know it's a better idea, but it's not till they actually do it that they go "shit, I feel so much better."
Jan-so good decision viper :D
Jan-ACTION gives Viper-7 a big hug
hackkittenACTION kitteh hops about~
Viper-7ACTION puts hackkitten on the ceiling
Jan-I can't believe it's hard to get in .au
Jan-that's madness
hackkittenACTION wobbles on the ceiling :3
Viper-7the dumbest part is, as long as it doesnt contain nicotine, vaping is totally legal here, even for kids
Viper-7so theres tons of kids vaping away in the stores and such these days, and theres no way to know if they're actually using nicotine or not
Jan-I mean I sort of get it
Jan-but the amount of good it does...
Viper-7banning all vaping for <18, and allowing nicotine for >18, would've made FAR more sense
Viper-7but then they wouldnt get their tax money from tobacco
hackkittenfun thing is that it's not so much the nicotine that's addicting, but the chemicals added to tobacco to make it truly addicting
Viper-7which is what its really about :P
hackkittenif they'd make those additives in cigarettes illegal, lots of smokers would quit
Viper-7hackkitten: eh i dunno, i switched to vaping and didnt even think about a cigarette again
Jan-So you don't think you'd ever go back to tobacco
hackkittenit depends on the person, of course :)
Viper-7absolutely zero withdrawl symptoms
p0g0the ammonia helps, but do not underestimate the addictiveness of nicotine
Viper-7Jan-: nope, thats why i tried that one, and holy shit it was disgusting
Jan-I have smoked. And yes it is. Utterly disgusting.
hackkittenwell, the chemicals added to cigarettes make the absorption of nicotine a lot more efficient
Jan-Also your sense of taste should be coming back now.
Jan-ACTION offers Viper-7 a dip in the chocolate cookies
Viper-7my throat burned, my mouth felt like acid, my hands stunk for hours, i lost so much of my sense of taste/smell for the rest of the day, etc
Jan-That's nature's way of saying "don't inhale this"
hackkittenACTION never saw the point of breathing in smoke, TBH
hackkittenyeah :D
hackkittenACTION hi-paws Jan-~
Jan-ACTION tickles hackkitten's tummy
hackkitten'this hurts, should I keep doing it?'
hackkittenACTION giggles
hackkittenbut yeah, congrats, Viper-7 :3
Viper-7and i was quite impressed that the nicotine hit from the cigarette actually hit me pretty hard, clearly i've cut back quite a bit on even the nicotine since changing to vaping
Viper-7thanks :D
Jan-Are you planning to reduce nicotine gradually?
Jan-nothing stopping you continuing to vape of course
hackkittenlike I said, the absorption of nicotine from cigarettes is much faster due to those added chemicals
hackkittenthey really optimised the heck out of that compared to 1960s-era cigarettes
Jan-there's a youtube channel where the guy does reviews of old military emergency rations, and some of those have cigarettes in them
hackkittenit's rather unfair for people who want to quit, TBH
Jan-he has nothing but good things to say about really old cigarettes from the early and mid 20th century
Viper-7Jan-: kinda sorta, when i started vaping i got some 24mg/ml stuff, that was much too strong for me, cut it back to 12mg/ml and thats what i started on - am now down to 6mg/ml, and have started to notice i reach for the vape more often than i did when i started
hackkittenI have noticed that pipe tobacco and modern cigarettes smell completely different when smoked
Viper-7so eh, im happy enough staying around this level, at least for a while
hackkittencigarette smoke smells horrible, pipe tobacco smoke almost not too bad
Jan-you are aware of how horrifyingly addictive nicotine is, I assume.
Jan-I mean, it's up there with heroin
hackkittendepends on the person, but yeah
p0g0tobacco does get stale, any WW2 cigarette is going to suck.
Viper-7i've been smoking for well over a decade, i'm quite well aware
Viper-7i quit before and lasted about 3 weeks before i was stressing myself insane at work and bought a pack
Viper-7been on the vape nearly 2 months now and super chill :D its great
Jan-3 weeks you'd have been out of physical dependency.
hackkittenACTION just has a crippling chocolate addiction :(
Viper-7Jan-: kinda sorta - the direct chemical addiction yes, the indirect addiction to the mental effects of nicotine, no
p0g0I've heard many stories from the trauma therapists of reformed junkies etc that found cigarettes the most addicting thing they ever encountered
Jan-Viper-7 yeah I get it
Jan-p0g0 I heard that too. nicotine is hideously, hideously addictive
p0g0Morphine was easier to kick for many of them.
Jan-if it was me (and it was back when I was a kid) I wouldn't want to be on the hook to a company like that.
Viper-7similar to weed, people say its not significantly chemically addictive, but quitting it was still hell
Jan-no way
p0g0And that is sort of the gold standard of addictions.
Viper-7nothing like the first week of quitting smoking entirely, but eh
Jan-so you did try cold turkey?
Viper-7this is many years ago, yeah
Jan-you need some good buddies around you
Viper-7for 3 days i was pretty messed up, basically just stayed in bed to sleep through the worst of it
Viper-7after that i wasnt too bad
Jan-I've known people who did it, it was absolutely miserable
Viper-7but yeah, it was stressing at work that got me, i just needed that release of going out for a smoke
phinxyHave anyone ordered something from AliExpress with the "DHL e-commerce" shipping option? Did the package come with a DHL sticker on it?
Viper-7phinxy: nope, but it comes postmarked from germany
Viper-7(yes, and no dhl sticker)
Jan-oh well congrats anyway vipes.
Jan-I think you quit at the right time
Jan-and you aren't the first person to quit, and THEN realise how revolting smoking is :)
Viper-7the way the govt is abusing smokers is absolutely disgusting now, im very glad to be out of that
Viper-7cigarettes in australia are about 90% tax
Viper-7they've been doubling the tax every couple of years
Jan-1940s cigarettes:
electrobotJan- just linked to 1943 US Army Field Ration K Dinner Unit WW2 MRE Review Oldest Eaten & Cigarette Smoked Taste Test - YouTube
p0g0About 20% of the public has more trouble than the rest of us too, quitting tobacco. The addictiveness varies a lot from person to person.
Viper-7non smokers dont care, and there arent enough smokers to make a serious fuss about it
Viper-7with the tax in the name of 'forcing people to quit by making it too expensive to maintain'
Jan-ACTION makes Viper-7 run around the block
Jan-ACTION clicks stopwatch
Jan-right now we need you to start smoking again for a couple months, and we'll try that again :D
p0g0Viper-7: that works too, for the most part.
hackkitten :3
Viper-7but this is why they've banned nicotine vapes... they're now getting *billions* a year from cigarette tax
Viper-7and studies have proven their 'tax it to death' strategy has completely failed
hackkittenthey should make other hard drugs legal too, and tax it~
Viper-7statistically, theres been no siginificant change in the number of smokers
Viper-7its just an easy revenue stream, people for them to take advantage of
p0g0Here in the US, the 20% that are seriously addicted make some headway when faced with the higher tax- they smoke less, and the public has paid forward to deal with their future diseases.
hackkittenhere in Europe the number of smokers is dropping steadily
Jan-not you, anymore though.
Viper-7because nobody cares about smokers complaining about the price of their smokes
hackkittenACTION wobbles :3
Jan-well if they don't like it they can quit...
Jan-yes I know it's hard.
p0g0not so much
hackkittenACTION would like to see all smoking in public banned =/
hackkittenI don't care about others smoking, I just don't want to breathe in their smoke
Viper-7Jan-: its really not that straight forward at all, but eh
p0g0Jan-: there really are people that can't quit, without some real help.
hackkittenACTION often feels that non-smokers are a lesser species here in Germany =/
p0g0Like I say, about 20% of us are in a different world.
Jan-Viper-7: well, it is hard to quit smoking. A friend of ours quit a few years ago, it was WRETCHED to watch it happen.
Viper-7Jan-: thats the attitude most non-smokers have, and why its been allowed to become such a massive problem
Jan-she was shaking so hard she was afraid to drive
hackkittenheck, they still got cigarette vending machines all over the place here
Viper-7non-smokers have zero sympathy for smokers, because its self inflicted
Viper-7forget the fact that its well recognised as one of the hardest addictions to kick
hackkittenoften it's due to a lapse in judgement AKA peer pressure
Jan-I'm aware of that. I do say, it can be done. People do it.
hackkittenor as I have seen in my extended family, because the rest of the family smokes too
p0g0hackkitten: wow, those are all gone around here, and we have the highest rate of smokers in the nation.
Viper-7Jan-: some do. for others its much too hard
hackkittenp0g0: smoker rates in Germany have been dropping from ~25% to around 16% now
Viper-7eg its a big issue now that people here on welfare, are spending more on cigarettes than on their rent, and can no longer afford food
Viper-7yet they still dont quit smoking, because they've tried and failed several times
Viper-7and its a horrible experience every time
Viper-7and nobody has any sympathy for them, they're given no support
p0g0Buponephrine and the patch, plus a lot of help...
Jan-well as I say viper it's probably bad that they've banned nicotine vapes.
Jan-I mean that's madness
Jan-what did you do, sneak yours in?
Viper-7if someone is addicted to heroin, they get methadone free from the govt to get clean - if someone is addicted to smoking, their only option here is to get on the gum/patch, which are terrible replacements, and actually cost more than smoking
Viper-7Jan-: nah, you're still allowed to import it for personal use, its just outlawed from sale here
Viper-7up to 3 months supply at a time
Jan-oh for pity's sake
p0g0What irks me is the ongoing access, the willful outreach by the 7 dwarves (the 7 large tobacco companies) to hook youth, esp outside the US, to wit: China.
p0g0That makes for more trouble, not less.
Jan-I wonder what happens if I....
hackkittenwhat irks me are those claims that e-cigs are somehow 'as bad as cigarettes'
Jan-ACTION hides all of Viper-7's vaping stuff
hackkittendoesn't really help matters
Viper-7and well, vape juice is actually one of the few things im not super comfortable with importing from china
Viper-7my stuff comes from the US, which means its much more expensive
Viper-7hackkitten: yeah :/
Viper-7Jan-: nooo
Jan-viper: yesssss!
Viper-7my white chocolate!
hackkittenthe EU has been looking to classify e-cigs as a medical device -.-
hackkittenwhich would make them very hard to obtain
Viper-7honestly with the flavours, i think they're even viable for weight loss
hackkittenmeanwhile cigs can still be bought (literally) on every street corner
hackkittenACTION rages~
Viper-7rather than eating junk food, you vape and get the same taste
Jan-I do know people who have never been smokers do them
p0g0We used to subsidize the production of tobacco in this state, and that became so demonstrably wrong that we quit. A lot of small farmers went under, the price of tobacco dropped... Total production is up. I have to wonder when we'll ban the production like all the other drug crops.
Jan-actresses in LA who want to stay thin
gurkiffs. a vape discussion. again.
Viper-7ACTION pats gurki
Jan-but yay vapes gurki!
hackkittenp0g0: I honestly feel that cocaine is healthier than tobacco =/
p0g0ACTION offers him a chaw of tobacco.
gurkiJan-: nah. vapes arent "yay"
Viper-7now if only they'd legalize weed here, i'd be set :P
gurkiits a lame excuse for smokers who "quit"
p0g0eh, cocaine would not be the drug I'd offer as 'healthier'
hackkittenACTION has been doing 'weed' for a while now without the actual weed :)
hackkittenthe healthy thing in weed is the CBD, not the THC
p0g0like nicotine, it remaps the brain
hackkittenand CBD is legal in many countries
p0g0hackkitten: I don't think anyone has shown cannabinoids (thc) to have much of an LD50.
p0g0I don't think there is evidence that it is 'unhealthy' per se.
hackkittenp0g0: true, but the health-related effects (pain, etc.) are primarily due to the CBD, not the THC
hackkittenso smoking weed is not the way to go for people with chronic pain
hackkittenjust get some yummy hemp tea, or use CBD drops
hackkitteneasier, cheaper, healthier and legal
p0g0heck, here, you should just get fitted for a jail cell, none of it is legal.
Viper-7same here p0g0 heh
hackkittenthat's just sad :(
hackkittenACTION would like to see hemp take over the cotton industry, TBH
hackkittenhemp is such a great plant, cotton not so much
hackkittenbut it got properly demonised last century =/
p0g0The most 'unhealthy' thing I have ever found about exocannabinoids is that endocannabinoids drive the rate of neural forking in utero, something I think might be best left to the mother and child, not some exogenous drug.
hackkittenI have read some articles on how THC may affect the pre-adult brain
hackkittenteenagers probably should avoid it until we know more
p0g0Hemp is making a comeback here, with way too many cops involved for some brainless plant.
hackkittengood thing one can still light up a few fags without anyone batting an eyelid :)
p0g0This used to be the worlds leading hemp production area, until it got all the laws prohibiting it.
hackkittenACTION gets out a flamethrower and suggests the smokers near building entrances find another place lest they get extra crispy~
hackkittenp0g0: so they destroyed an entire industry for some puritan delusion. Swell.
p0g0If any of you have ever seen the "Hemp for Victory" WW2 newsreels, those were filmed just downstream from here.
hackkittenI see :>
gurkihackkitten: so sad. they destroyed the entire euthanasia industry in ww2
gurkisorry. i wanted to be this guy sliding some discussion towards nazi some day.
gurkitoday was the day
p0g0hackkitten:oh, no. You have that wrong- the fabic industry and the liquor industry set out to kill hemp, hiding it in some moral authority just made it happen.
hackkittenyeah, it was the convenient excuse
hackkittenlike I said, they demonised it
hackkittenbut that's similar to why tobacco and alcohol won't be lega
hackkitteneven if they tried it for the latter once
hackkittenwe all know what happened there
p0g0There was a published study out of the Univ of Georgia (US state) that documented that legalizing pot in parts of the US drove down liquor sales by 15-20%
Jan-ACTION places hackkitten on a comfy cushion under a blanket
hackkittentextbook case for why making popular things illegal is a bad idea :P
p0g0That study is current too.
hackkittenof course, THC gives people the munchies
hackkittenso the snack industry might like it
hackkittenACTION kitteh hugs Jan- and purrs underneath her blanket :3
p0g0Well, one of the driving forces for all the breeding effort has been the construction of law, the penalty by weight or plant count, all the smuggling- all reasons to make things more potent per weight.
Snertall that illegality is going away. On it's way out now.
p0g0These were topics in my uni plant science courses 40+ years ago... the rising THC levels were a predictable outcome given the remarkable heterozygosity of c sativa.
p0g0Snert: I doubt it here. I expect instead to see a long perversion using law enforcement to continue to limit production.
p0g0Kentucky has declared it a political deal, and the state Republicans swear to never give an inch.
p0g0USA, Kentucky- now in a bit of a backslide, sad to say.
hanetzerhackkitten: popular, morally good things :P
Snertthats just all puffery and bullshit.
p0g0Snert: those boys write the laws and the state budget.
p0g0It may be theatre, but they hold the keys to it all.
Snertwhen Kentucky gets a whiff of the tax dollars they'll come-a-runnin'.
p0g0No, we've had that discussion, and it hasn't moved things.
hanetzerI've smoked pot once, and done a few other drugs in my life. pot should be legal.
p0g0Further, that all requires a lot of oversight, or you end up like Oregon or N. Ca, where it is just a mess.
hanetzerother stuff... not so much, maybe... were it not illegal, it wouldn't be so profitable possibly, which would make drug dealing less an attractive criminal venture, maybe, so maybe less gang violence?
hanetzerplus, if everyone is high and legally so, too mellow to shoot each other :P
p0g0Snert: I have kin in Humboldt County, the price of a pound of pot there has dropped to as low as $150/lb- the value is all in the scarcity, if that goes away, it's a field crop
p0g0Snert: the point being that the tax $ are likely to fade out as the market gets saturated.
hanetzerbut, this is the ramblings of someone with no training in this field and very little experience with drugs in general :)
p0g0The stuff is intrinsically worthless, a weed.
p0g0The cost of pot is driven almost entirely by risk- that law enforcement will imprison you.
p0g0Snert: so, to tax it, you still have to put people on courts and prisons- and that costs money.
p0g0The best thing that has happened to the pot industry in years is Jeff Sessions- he is doing everything he can to preserve the price.
Lianyone with good fpga knowledge can suggest a good beginer friendly fpga devel board that can last for if advanced level is reached?
gurkiLi: anything zynq based is probably a nice way to go
gurkinot the cheapest devboard around, but itll allow you to explore everything including socs connected via axi
gurkitheres edu discount should you be eligible
gurkiid strongly advise agains anything thats not supported by vivado
gurkiyou will have to ask others for profound recommendations for altera/intel boards im mainly using xilinx tools
gurkithe cyclone v should be similar in a lot of ways but i cannot recommend a specific board
transhumanHI! I am looking for information like frequency response, voltage, current on DOCSYS 2.0, 3.0 and 3.1 standard pots telephony connections according to spec, anyone know where this information might be found?
p0g0one of those two likely published the RFP and standard.
Tachyon`nobody is going to help you hack cable...
p0g0The standard POTS stuff varies by country a fair amount
transhumanmainly for USA
transhumanI will check out the IEEE and ITU for information, thanks
p0g0The thing to know about the DOCSYS/cable stuff is that it expects to be provisioned by the cable company
p0g0and you won't generally beat that
p0g0What you can do is get a modem only rig, and run your own router/firewall.
p0g0zyxel makes a nice one, for example.
transhumanwhat should I look for on ITU and IEEE should I search for standard pots or should I look for docsys and pots
transhumanI dont know if there is a difference
p0g0heck, I don't know why you are looking, but I am pretty sure you'll learn a lot more than you expected.
transhumanah ok
p0g0ACTION ambles off
sztelkewhy does mr chiner hate me
sztelkereset pin on stm8s003(i think; part no rubbed off) doesn't do enything
sztelkeis it even posible to disable reset pin on it
Gathistranshuman i think 3.5kHz was the upper frequency limit of POTS, but good luck digging for info
Gathisvoltages, ring tones etc all vary slightly by country
transhumanthanks guys I have found something, but and its specific but I am not sure its 100% applicable to docsys 2.0 3.0 or 3.1 specs
Lithanks gurki
Gathisyeh transhuman, some useful info if you google ITU PSTN Standard
Gathisand docsys .. im unaware of
sztelkei googled stm8s003
sztelkeno mention on disabling nRES pin
gurkiyoure welcome :)
Ligurki: it's the same one with 199$ right?
gurkiLi: im not sure what exactly youre asking
MaximBHello, I got an LG TV with 2 HDMI inputs, 1 input is connected to my PC videocard, is it viable to connect the other input to a soundbar? will they work at the same time? (like watching youtube, playing games)
Gathisyou say inputs...
MaximBmaybe outputs?
MaximBand what is the diff between HDMI DVI and HDMI STB?
GathisSTB = set top box
MaximBwhat does it mean?
Gathisit's just the source the TV expects for a standalone 'set top box' tuner
Gathisthey're much less popular now that all new TV's have had digital tuners for 10+ years
GathisSTBs were mostly to allow old analog PAL/NTSC TV's receive a signal, tho some STBs also included decryption hardware for pay-to-view TV
MaximBand can I use those 2 HDMI's to connect a videocard and a soundbar?
Gathisthe soundbar needs connecting to an output. I have an oldish LG TV here with HDMI inputs, i think they are only inputs
Gathisif those ports are labelled HDMI IN then... just inputs, my LG here has HDMI/DVI IN and HDMI IN, and as it's old, has also 2 SCART AV1 and AV2 sockets
Gathisthose (ugly ass) SCART connectors allow signal outputs (other than when evil HDCP is active)
DocScrutinizer05ACTION wonders what he got wrong this time. DOCSIS is cable, not POTS, no?
transhumanthanks GAthis
DocScrutinizer05DOCSIS Data Over Cable Service Interface Specification - what's DOCSYS?
Gathisdid you find what you wanted transhuman ?
Gathisgood Q DocScrutinizer05 :)
Gathisi had a dual ISDN2 line once back in the 90's .. cost at least twice what fibre costs today
Gathiswas only marginally faster than dialup modems, but had better telephony control
DocScrutinizer05same here :-)
DocScrutinizer05POTS is *DSL now
MaximBGathis: yes they are both HDMI IN
MaximBso I can't use both?
Gathisyou can use both, but only as inputs, the remote control allows selection of input
Gathisthe only outputs my TV has here are the ugly SCART connectors, and it has an optical digital audio output
Gathisi have my main computer connected to one HDMI input, and a raspberry pi connected to the other HDMI input ;)
Gathisbut i only use the LG tv as a 2nd display from this computer for tv/film viewing, it's not HD
Gathiseven the Pi deserves something better, but i lack space and money ;p
MaximB....but you said the soundbar requires HDMI output
Gathiswhat connectors does the soundbar have ?
GathisMaximB also, what model is your LG TV/panel ?
MaximBmaybe I'm a bit confused about all the input/output stuff
MaximBI'm looking at the LG SJ4 soundbar
MaximBdidn't buy it
MaximBbut thinking
Gathisthe LG i have here has mostly inputs, few outputs
Gathiswhat model is you LG TV ?
zaltis it possible to clone a chip's functionality without knowing anything about what's inside it, i mean something like a proprietary 8 pin chip with unknown pin layout :D
MaximBit has HDMI 4 , 3.5mm , USB , optical inputs
Gathis3.5mm analog audio out ?
Gathisin ?
Gathisare you talking about the soundbar or the TV ?
MaximBthe model of the TV I don't recall, but it does have a digital audio optical output input too
Gathisok, get an optical cable then
MaximBis it better than HDMI?
MaximBfor sound
Gathisthat's your best solution to connect the TV to the soundbar
password2zalt, its possible , but you need to know exactly what it does
zaltpassword2: so reverse engineering the thing by taking a look inside physically would be easier?
Gathisyes, the HDMI is input only on the TV, so useless for connecting to the soundbar if you want to use the TV as a source.
password2zalt, how would you take a look inside?
zaltpassword2: umm, idk i think there are people specialized in this sort of reverse engineering :D
password2zalt, its very tricky and diffucult
password2only a handfull of people do it
GathisMaximB yes, optical is better, it'll have no issues with electrical noise pickup, it's immune to interference, and is full digital quality
password2why do you want to pirate a chip?
password2someone worked hard to make that thing
MaximBalso, what sounds better a soundbar (not too expensive, under $250) or a 2.1 speakers?
password2and now you think you are entitled to stealing it?
zaltidk, i'm just wondering about a hypothetical situation
Gathiszalt it depends a lot on how complex the chip is .. and what facilities you have available... such as a scanning electron microscope ?
password2then go steal those hypothetical 1/0s
GathisMaximB a decent set if independent speakers driven by a decent AV amp will always sound better than a soundbar, but only at a large cost
zaltheh, but can't be easy to clone it from a mathematical point of view? i mean something like provide all possible inputs to it and read all outputs and use software to simplify the thing or just store it as it is
Gathisan AV 5.1 or 7.1 surround sound amp is at least several hundred, and same again or more for decent speakers
password2zalt, no
password2how many 100 line programs can you write?
password2nearly infinite
Gathiswhat sort of chip is it zalt ? for anything beyond static logic password2 is correct .. not possible
Gathisfor simple 74 series logic, analysers can mostly autodetect chip type
password2I'm assume some sort of mcy
MaximBwell I'm thinking between this: and this: for the livingroom
MaximBfor movies/ games
zalthmmf, yeah, i haven't taken the possibility that it could have a nearly infinite amount of states into account, that is even if it has a few input pins
GathisMaximB ~ those aren't surround sound it seems, but go with reviews combined with what you can afford, and if you're in the UK, cpc have reasonably priced digital optical cables if you have any problems finding them.
zaltlol it could have something as stupid as a radioactive material next to a radiation detector that outputs random things for all we know from the outside :D
Gathisdon't waste money on expensive 'digital' cables, if they work at all they'll be 100% good.
FauxThis bit of industrial junk I've taken apart has some kind of through-board (not through-hole) ferrite bead arrangement, for EMI screening (there's a big metal can over this bit so it's gotta be). Any idea what these are called? Front and back in the photos.
Faux and the link, duh.
password2i need facebook with less shitty people on
password2Gathis, but my oxygen free cable is superior
zaltwhat if there's something like a rom or any other kind of memory, is it relatively easy to copy everything inside it?
Gathisthe cheaper end OFC cables are maybe worth it for analog signals, not for digital ;p
MaximBGathis: not from UK, just got the 1st google I've found for this model, someone recommanded me those soundbars, but from the reviews I read they aren't that good
FauxAh, page 10 of just calls them "ferrite beads".
Gathisah ok MaximB, well good luck, i hope you can find good sources at reasonable prices
Gathisand meh @ faceache, i created an account in april 2015, logged in maybe 4 times since then, but got a shedload of crap emails to the gash email account i gave them
MaximBif I only knew what to buy :) I'm really a noob at this field.
Gathiswell MaximB use optical cable, cheapest you can find that doesn't fall apart ;), and get the best reviewed speaker or sound bar you can afford.
ThePendulumGathis: I use them for power transfer because there´s just less loss than aluminum cables
ThePendulum@ OFC
Gathisif possible visit a store to see/hear them
MaximByes, but speaks or a soundbar?
Bird|otherboxFaux, yeah, they're probably ordinary beads shoved in big holes in the board to create a feedthru arrangement
Gathisyour choice, the stereo image from a modern soundbar isn't bad if you're fairly close to it. If you have a large room you'd probably still be better with seperate speakers.
Jan-ACTION has lunch
Jan-mmmm sandwich
FauxBird|otherbox: Don't think assembling that is going to be any fun at all. :)
Jan-who makes battery chargers suitable for charging 7.2 volt lithium ion batteries
Bird|otherboxJan-, look for a 2S charger
Gathispersonally if i win the lottery i want a decent AV amp from someone like yamaha, denon or marantz, and a set of speakers, but i'd not expect much change out of £2000
Gathisbut can't afford that sort of expense for now :D
FauxI enjoy looking at non-Apple workstation hardware; £2000 gets you quite a lot of cores and ram (8 physical cores, 64gb ram no problems). I'm glad I have a relatively cheap primary fetish.
g105b_Please can you folks advise some simple circuits to convert an input voltage to my expected voltage range, for logging? I need the input to be in the range of 0-5v, but the max might be anything up to 24v. Is this possible without losing signal resolution or adding noise?
Gathisan input voltage of 0v .. you're not going to get any output without additional power.. what output do you need ?
Gathisthe input, is it just a signal you're digitising, or a power source, your question is ambiguous, what output spec do you need ?
g105b_Gathis: My microprocessor circuit is expecting input to be 0-5v. It works nicely now, logging the signals, but I have other sources to log that are in different ranges of voltages. One might be 0-24v. I was wondering if there were a simple solution to interpolate a voltage on the hardware side as to not fry my circuit.
g105b_I'm a software guy so I'm probably sounding really dumb right now.
Gathisif digitising those input voltages, then 0-24 can easily be converted to 0-5 with just a simple resistive divider, and you can use a zener diode as a protective limiter
darsieGathis: Maybe a voltage divider?
Gathisi dont know what he's doing ..
Gathisdepending on impedances you'll perhaps want to use an opamp signal buffer
g105b_Gathis: darsie: Thanks, a voltage divider looks like a good solution for interpolating the voltage down, but I can't see how a voltage could be interpolated up.
Gathisi'd expect any digitising input will be fairly high impedance already
Gathisg105b_ are you talking about digitising a low power signal, or about power conversion ?
Gathistwo very different things
darsieg105b_: op amp
g105b_Bear with me because I haven't got much understanding of the basics.
DocScrutinizer05((<zalt> is it possible to clone a chip's functionality without knowing anything about what's inside it)) in theory not really, in practice you can take a few assumptions (like "no clock and no state machine inside") and then do extensive testing for all possible input states and recording the corresponding output states
Gathisand is the signal mostly a DC level, or an AC signal ? .. AC can be converted with a transformer
g105b_Gathis: Yes the 5v currently goes into a ADC so that's taken care of before my code is concerned, but applying any other voltage range to the ADC will not give me the results I expect. All I want to know in the code is the percentage of the maximum voltage that is being inputted, but now that maximum can change I don't know where to turn.
DocScrutinizer05zalt: and for stuff with some sort of sttae machine inside (ROM for example) you need to have a clear idea of "what's inside the chip" to get reasonable results that allow cloning
Gathisok slow changing DC signals, well, proportionally reduce your 0-24 signal with a voltage divider. as for lower voltage signals, an op amp can boost the voltage level. Op amps were originally designed for analog 'computing'
zalthmf, i think with ROM alone you can't have a state no? i mean you'd still have a combinational circuit
g105b_Gathis: OK thanks for the terminology (Google food).
Gathisyou should easily find plenty of op amp circuits
Gathisa quad opamp also is cheap :)
Jan-I'm never writing code again
Jan-the more you write, the more bug reports you get
intranickhi Jan-
Gathisof course :))
Jan-oh hey nick
Jan-how's mini-soter?
Jan-sub zero temperatures and a 50% chance of the abominable snowman?
intranickhows the land of the pinky lift while drinking?
Jan-oh no wait sorry
Jan-you ARE the abominable snowman!
Jan-ACTION flees
DocScrutinizer05zalt: address strobe? address auto increment even?
Gathisg105b_ one last note, if your ADC input is damaged by over-voltages, feed it via a 10k resistor (assuming the ADC has high resistance input) and zener diode to prevent voltage overshoots
Gathis100k maybe even, check the specs, and do the math.
DocScrutinizer05zalt: when you have a full address bus with straight decoder inside, then yes, it's basically stateless
DocScrutinizer05but a 8 pin chip for sure isn't that
g105b_Gathis: thanks!
Gathisg105b_ also protect against negative/reverse polarity
DocScrutinizer05zalt: actually in FPGA etc. all gates are actually LUT implemented as tiny "ROM" with like 4 or even 8 address inputs and usually one data bit output
transhumanGathis, I think the basic information about frequency range, impedence, voltage, current is burried in the ITU stuff somewhere but haven't found it for the USA, I do have a different question though, is there an open source usb v.92 modems that are compatable with Windows 10 out there (open source drivers or the whole kit and caboodle open source?)
Bird|otherboxDocScrutinizer05, yeah, about the only FPGAs which that isn't true for are absolutely prehistoric (such as the Atmel 6000 series parts, which are well and thoroughly obsolete, replaced by the AT40K series)
electrobotNKK Switches AT4057 Protective Guard, Pb Switch ($1.37 ea @ 1k) -
DocScrutinizer05zalt: ideally you log all pins' states of the chip in device into a LA for a long time while driving the device through all possible operations. Then you usually can create a 100% correct clone of the chip
Gathishm, no idea transhuman. there's a project for linux for nuisance call blocking using the telephony features of modems which i want to explore, but.. open source? modems generally communicate via RS232 serial, which USB drivers convert into a virtual RS232 port
Gathisit's been years since i looked at windows TAPI stuff
Bird|otherboxDocScrutinizer05, do we even know that zalt's chip is digital to begin with?
DocScrutinizer05Bird|otherbox: no, we don't
zaltDocScrutinizer05: i imagine a lot of the required equipment is already around for purposes of quality control / verification :)
DocScrutinizer05so possibly you need a 8chan storage scope rather than a LA
zaltBird|otherbox: we're assuming the hypothetical chip is digital :>
Bird|otherboxzalt: ah
DocScrutinizer05I actually did similar to analyze the GreenPAK4 programming protocol. I used a 4chan scope with repeating same sequence over and over again and one channel staying same pin that seemed to have a useful (clock) signal while the other 3 channels logged 3 pins at a time
zalti bet this sort of stuff is done for critical applications like airplane hardware and stuff like that
Jan-ACTION offers ace4016 a cookie
zalti know it's done for their software :D
DocScrutinizer05yes, security-relevant parts are 100% RE'ed by a evaluation group, without any knowledge of the chip's (or DUT's) internals. Then in the end a 3rd groups compares orginial and RE'ed "source" and tries to spot differences
transhumanok, I am beginning to think that open source windows drivers and stuff arn't available, for any modems I would like to interface with the driver for a modem, so I guess the only thing I can do is use a rasberry pi or something like that along with the modem
DocScrutinizer05I seen that getting done for controllers for driverless subway
Jan-ACTION plays some bass guitar
Jan-*dom dom dum dum dum*
DocScrutinizer05hi Jan-
Jan-hihi doc
Jan-how's things
DocScrutinizer05don't ask
Jan-just did :)
Gathistranshuman modems use AT commands, originally (afaik) the 'Hayes command set', they vary between manufacturers a bit, but mostly documented, and the command I/O is via serial port
DocScrutinizer05Hayes, ACK
Gathisyeh, not saying more, we don't all want nightmares ;)
DocScrutinizer05later standardized by ... don't know prolly latest is 3GP
Jan-as in ATDT01747326585
Gathisacknowledge .. a standard serial signal
DocScrutinizer05acknowledge, aka "yes, correct"
DocScrutinizer05Jan-: is that your phone number? ;-)
Jan-no that was the phone number of my first isp (I think)
Jan-it's been awhile
DocScrutinizer05dT is a tad obsolete now
DocScrutinizer05DTMF is no more nowadays ;-)
Gathisi actually have a genuine hayes modem somewhere buried under my bed :D
Bird|otherboxDocScrutinizer05, what?!
Bird|otherboxDTMF is still a thing
spludalong with your dirty laundry?
Gathisno, just dust ;p
Jan-it's always hilarious when people wipe out hugely in the winter olympics
DocScrutinizer05Bird|otherbox: yeah, sometimes, rarely. In GSM++ you don't have it, neither in ISDN
DocScrutinizer05nor in VoIP
Jan-like when they're snowboarding downhill at eleventy porpskillion miles an hour and fall over and there's bits of bone poking out
Jan-"LOOK AT ME - AARGH" splat
ZeroWalkeris there a way to "fix" a nimh battery. One of them is basically always super low, even when i charge it (simple charger)
spludreplace it with one that works?
Gathischuck it, buy new, yep
ZeroWalkerhaha, yeah thought as much
Bird|otherboxDocScrutinizer05, well, for actual dialing, no, but you can still send tones over the link
ZeroWalkerwas just wondering if there was a way to push the memory effect or something
DocScrutinizer05ZeroWalker: discard it, it's dead
DocScrutinizer05Bird|otherbox: of course
ZeroWalkeryeah gotta do that, got some Sanyo, those are amazing
Gathisthey grow crystals over time which internally shorts them. a high current 'shock' can temporarily fix it, but they'll degrade again within a few weeks
ZeroWalkerwould like better batteries though as i eat through them so fast
ZeroWalkerAh, well then that's not worth it
DocScrutinizer05though on SIP and iirc also on GSM++ you do out-of-band signaling usually
DocScrutinizer05there are competing standards for in-call "commands"
Jan-so... if the north korean olympic team all decide they want to stay in south korea, will the north korean government go after their families or whatever
Bird|otherboxDocScrutinizer05, how do those work when the SIP or GSM link is bridged to POTS?
DocScrutinizer05RFC 2833 DTMF events; Inband DTMF; Out-of-band DTMF (SIP INFO)
CrazyLikeAFoxJan-: That's the standard way NK deals with defectors
DocScrutinizer05Bird|otherbox: gateway transforms e.g. SIP-INFO into tones
Jan-CrazyLikeAFox: :/
Jan-north korea minus minus?
Jan-*sigh* I always wanted to ride on the Zamboni.
DocScrutinizer05with some codecs, inband will work just fine
CrazyLikeAFox"Best Korea" if you're so inclined
Jan-ahem "only real korea"
Bird|otherboxDocScrutinizer05, ah. so the digits are transmitted OOB in the link and then converted to actual DTMF in the SIP to POTS bridge
DocScrutinizer05yep, exactly
DocScrutinizer05unless you use "classical" inband
DocScrutinizer05doesn't work e.g. with GSM codec
DocScrutinizer05works fine with G.711
DocScrutinizer05and G.726
DocScrutinizer05disclaimer: IIRC
Xionabawhen you have a prototype on breadboard, is there a nice way to get it on these prototype PCBs? the arrangement becomes different
cheaterthis is insane
electrobotcheater just linked to Frozen fish comes alive - YouTube
curlyearsjan- !
Jan-DID YOU KNOW, in the time it takes to listen to The Proclaimers most famous track, the international space station travels 500 miles, and then 500 more :D
SmokinGruntsXionaba you could use wee little jumper wires, you could do solder tracks, you could layout a footprint and have a board house do a proto run...
SmokinGruntswee little jumpery-doos
SpeedEvilJan-: hey
Jan-oh hey speedy
Jan-how's it going
SpeedEvilJan-: I'm finally under 100kg, which is nice. (started year at 105)
XionabaSmokinGrunts: hmm, so maybe try to replicate a breadboard layout with the jumpers? and then mindlessly copy
SmokinGruntswell, there are some protoboards kinda-sorta setup like a breadboard out there
SmokinGruntsit really depends on what you feel comfortable doing
SmokinGruntsbest way (and it's so fun) is to learn board layout!
Xionabahow? by trial and error?
SmokinGruntsand then with the clicks and the boops you gotta thingymablip
SmokinGruntsnaw, use the oracle
SmokinGruntsgoogle + youtube
Xionabaman will not function without those two i guess!
SmokinGruntsyeah strange times for us meatsacks
SmokinGruntsACTION 's head explodes into pink mist.
DocScrutinizer05Xionaba: check out kicad
curlyearskicad isn't 3D, is it?
DocScrutinizer05curlyears: err, please elaborate
DocScrutinizer05kicad has a 3D renderer for models
curlyearsto my knowl;ege, kicad is a 2D CAD application
XionabaDocScrutinizer05: checking now
DocScrutinizer05curlyears: KiCAd is EDA
curlyearsdoes it, now?
SmokinGruntsALSO! Doc has a cool software for doing cool viewings of cool stuff!
DocScrutinizer05a very special "CAD"
SmokinGruntslike that plug?
curlyearswonder why kicad never pops up when I search for linux 3D apps?
DocScrutinizer05because it's not 3D
DocScrutinizer05it's a EDA
curlyearsDocScrutinizer05: whatsa difference?
DocScrutinizer05and the 3D renderer for models is just a recent extension
DocScrutinizer05basically a 3D renderer is a nice-to-have largely orthogonal to EDA
curlyearscan a kicad rendering be used as input to a 3D slicer?
DocScrutinizer05nfc what's a slicer
curlyearsOK, perhaps I don't understand what EDA is, then
DocScrutinizer05well, except in cheese context
curlyearsslicer is a program that "slices" a 3D image, and generatres the gcode (ha4dware machine code) to instruct a 3D printer hgow to recreate it in a solid form
SmokinGruntslike that guy they got in the museum
DocScrutinizer05that's not EDA, that's for 3D printers
MacGeekcurlyears: it's a software package where you design electronic circuits. you add the components and draw the schematics, then that schematic is imported into the PCB layout tool where you physically place the components around, design the pcb traces connecting them, etc.
DocScrutinizer05you can't 3D print an electronic circuit
DocScrutinizer05alas *sigh*
DocScrutinizer05not YET
Xionabawasnt there some math concept that dealt with lines and nodes, finding shortest paths etc?
DocScrutinizer05curlyears: note how in the 3D viewer is a recent achievement not really needed for what a EDA does: schematics and PCB layout
SmokinGruntslike a b-tree?
Xionabahmmm, not sure
Xionababut could be
curlyearsDocScrutinizer05: actually, you *CAN*
DocScrutinizer05huh? what?
DocScrutinizer05kicad 3D viewer knows a few popular 3D file formats for export, yes
ub|kanyone knows anything about fixing hifi amplifiers?
SmokinGruntswhat happened to the amp?
_abc_Fun troubleshooting story
ub|kSmokinGrunts: basically, i've started noticing a crackling noise on one of the channels
DocScrutinizer05ooh, 3D print circuits? haha
curlyearsDocScrutinizer05: several different research teams have developed techniques for successfully printing electronic circuit using 3D printing. The simplest is you print a slab with PLA or what not, then print circuit traces with a coinductive filament. You leave pockets for the bodies of your components, drop the components in, and print some more
curlyears plastic over the top to keep them in place and press them against the like a charm
_abc_"they soldered the transformer before tightening the screws" may be a wrong conclusion though. Imo it's ROHS solder and thermal cycling and or vibration.
_abc_curlyears: name a conductive filament and it's price and supplier please.
ub|kopened up the whole thing, no signs of burn parts
SmokinGrunts_abc_ I HATE joints like that
curlyearsThere are also jet-spray 3D printers that can print a functional transistor, diode, resistor or capacitor (ever inductors) by itself.
SmokinGruntsI want them to drown in silver
DocScrutinizer05the operational statement here is >>drop your components in<< so that's NOT "printing electronics", it's "printing a PCB" which is old stuff
_abc_SmokinGrunts: they pay the bills for a lot of repairers these days. Because of that, one cannot say ROHS is *all* bad. It does have a few good points.
DocScrutinizer05actually PCB *is* PRINTED circuit board
SmokinGruntsHate it!
SmokinGruntsub|k smell it
_abc_DocScrutinizer05: yes but they don't print it anymore, mostly. Mass manufactured pcb's were printed at some times, with copper foil rolled on and glued onto substrate
ub|kSmokinGrunts: tried that already ;)
_abc_DocScrutinizer05: crap ones, to be honest.
curlyears_abc_:P I don't know that information. (I believe Taulman sells a conductice filament. NOTE: conductive filaments are NOT ideal conductors. They tend to have higher resistance per cm then metals, whihv does enforce certain erestrictions in layout
DocScrutinizer05_abc_: ack
linextis it bad to solder aluminum and copper wires?
SmokinGruntsub|k is it like a 'poppy' crackle, are constant 'scratchy' crackle, or some kinda weird crackle I can't really describe properly?
_abc_linext: you can't make them stick
DocScrutinizer05just to invoke more flaming: you can't solder aluminum
curlyearsDocScrutinizer05: modern PCBs are not "printed" per se`. The PCB stock is covered with a layer of copper foil, which is then sewl;ectively either etched or millerd to leave only the desired conductive paths
ub|kSmokinGrunts: constant scratchy crackle
_abc_Actually you can, with the right solder and flux, at about 400 degC
SmokinGruntsdid you elimate the speakers as a variable? (switch them)
_abc_But that will destroy insulation on the wire and have other effects
ub|kSmokinGrunts: happens with both speakers and headphones
DocScrutinizer05curlyears: believe me, I *know* that
curlyearsDocScrutinizer05: technically incorrect. It just take bloody expensive and complicated setups (have to isolat the solder joint from the atmosphere, and from any gas that will oxidize the aluminum)
SmokinGruntsit could (hopefully) be something simple like a bad joint, or maybe a bum pot or slider
sibiriahello. anyone around who's good with the inner workings of ceramic resonators? i'm wondering about their accuracy and 0.005% tolerance. does this apply between pulses (meaning each pulse can vary +/-) or is it for the frequency of the resonator itself?
SmokinGruntshave you tried wigglin' stuff on the inside with it on?
DocScrutinizer05curlyears: yo YOU *can* solder aluminum?
DocScrutinizer05*I* can't
_abc_sibiria: it is statistically given over many trials and many resonators
_abc_sibiria: also over temperature range
SmokinGruntsdo that, see if you can hear a change and locate the area on the board
curlyearssibria: the "accuracy" spec is for base frequency of operation. The spec that describes variations in timinig betwqeen different clock pulses is "jitter"
SmokinGruntsbe careful though, don't just poke around blindly
_abc_sibiria: in short: for constant temperature and one resonator, it will be much more stable both immediately and over time.
ub|kSmokinGrunts: yeah, i know, thanks
curlyearsDocScrutinizer05: nor can *I*. But I have seen it done.
sibiriacurlyears: so there can be resonators that, while having a 0.0005% tolerance on the base freq, still have much less jitter between pulses?
SmokinGruntswhat sorta cool project are you workin' on which needs a resistor so accurate?
DocScrutinizer05_abc_: yes, there are very special flux that allegedly allow melt-fusion of aluminum to other aluminum, however note that "soldering" semantically ends at 450°C
curlyearssibiria: yep. You're not likely to fins jitter speciifications in a vendors sales catralog. You'll have to refer to the manufacxurer's data sheet for that sort of information
_abc_sibiria: yes
sibiriacurlyears, _abc_: thank you
_abc_sibiria: but it depends strongly on the circuit used for the oscillator too.
_abc_Cheap and cheesy one gate vs proper Butler etc makes a big difference eventually.
curlyears_abc_ is absoultely correct on that point
sibiriai guess for my use even 0.005% tolerance on base freq (meaning 1 potential second of drift every 200 seconds) is acceptable
DocScrutinizer05I for one never seen aluminum melt-jointed to copper
sibiriait's used on an Atmega328p-pu in my case. i don't know how fancy its oscillator driver is
DocScrutinizer05except maybe on bond wires
_abc_sibiria: why do you want to use a ceramic resonator and not a quartz? Also 0.005% is a lot less than 1 sec in 200
_abc_sibiria: 1 sec in 200 is 0.5% or so
sibiria_abc_: i don't have enough space on my PCB for a crystal and capacitors
_abc_sibiria: nowadays internal rc oscillators in mcus attain 1% over temperature and voltage
sibiriaotherwise i'd go for a real xtal
curlyearssibiria: what you are rteferring to there is the "drift" of the oscillator/resonator. The "accuracy' TELLS YOU HOW CLOSELY THE PART WILL WORK TO THE PUBLISHEWD SPECIFICATION FREQUENCY. "dRIFT" TELLS YOU HOW MUCH IT MIGHT "SHIFT" OVER TIME (AND TEMPERATURE)
_abc_sibiria: use the internal RC osc in the mcu!
curlyearsdamn...sorry for shouting....frigging capslock key
sibiria_abc_: it doesn't reach the required freq. i need for proper performance - 8mhz just isn't enough for my application
sibiriahence, external oscillator
sibiria(or resonator in my case)
_abc_sibiria: okay, that is a reason.
_abc_sibiria: note there are ceramic resonators with built in caps, you save some space
sibiriayeah i'm using one of those
_abc_I use ZTT12 series frequently for usb things
electrobotECS International ZTT-12.00MT CER RES 12.0000MHZ 30PF T/H ($0.27 ea @ 1k) -
SpeedEvilAlso, not using an 8 bit processor.
curlyearsyou might be better off re-specifying the dimensions of your PCB to allow for an extrernal Xtal and associated caps
_abc_That yes.
SmokinGruntssibiria can you do some board magic and make space?
_abc_There are 2 versions large and small for that ZTT, I used both.
DocScrutinizer05sibiria: is there a possibility to use a PLL to multiply the 8MHz?
_abc_Sure with the right mcu...
sibiriaSmokinGrunts: possibly, if i invest enough time to redo the layout, but the resonator gets the job done nicely
sibiriawas merely curious about what exactly the tolerance referred to
SmokinGruntshuh. Okay cool then! :)
curlyearsDocScrutinizer05: a PLL would require considerably more board real estate thyan an xtal AND A PAIR OF SMALL XAPSW :)
curlyearsdamn it
_abc_curlyears: no, the pll is built into many mcus now
DocScrutinizer05curlyears: unless the PLL is already integrated into e.g. a SoC
_abc_curlyears: PICs specifically, and not only. Even attiny
ub|kSmokinGrunts: it's weird, because the noise stays even if the volume is in its minimum setting
sibiriathanks for the info, _abc_ curlyears etc.
SmokinGruntssounds like an ic
ub|kSmokinGrunts: i don't think there are many of those
Bird|otherboxsibiria, what is this microcontroller doing?
SmokinGruntshe booped
curlyearsub|k, where in the circuit does the "volume" control sit?
_abc_electrically haunted house
_abc_ are those transparent fuses still in use anywhere?!
_abc_The transparent screw in fuse plugs?
DocScrutinizer05ugh, never before seen those
ub|kcurlyears: let me see if i can find the schematic
curlyearsOne time, I was called in to diagnose an electrical problem with a house a freiend had just bought for income purposes. About half the xirxuits in the house were dead, no blown breakers. Intersting symptom, though: when you turned either the electric oven or the electric sdtove on, they only heated to avoout 11/2 of what they should have, and th
curlyearse dead circuits sort of worked., (verylow Voltage)
SmokinGruntsub|k is it a tube amp!?!?!
SmokinGruntsACTION loves the gentle mastery of tube amps
curlyearsturned out when the poower company restored the electricity to the house, they inavertantly left one side of tyhe 240 mains disconnectded. IT TOOK A WHILE FOR ME TO DIAGNOST THAT ONE.
ub|kSmokinGrunts: nope
DocScrutinizer05lol @ "one side of 240V", sounds nuts to a european electrician
ub|kit actually looks quite shitty:
Jan-hey _abc_
Jan-oh no that was ages ago
Jan-_abc_ is asleep
SmokinGruntsub|k didja look real close at the joints, with like a loupe or a magnifier? fer stuff like this
DocScrutinizer05what a format is that? can't view it
curlyearsub|k: it sounds like you have a problem in the driver stage amplifi=er of the amps. Noise from that source will be amplified by the driv er stangre and the output stage, regardless of the "volume control" settting, as the noise source is aftewr the volume control stage
_abc_Jan-: I sleep-post. never be the known fixer/troubleshooter. Never. Tell them you work in sewage automation.
ub|kSmokinGrunts: i'll have a look, thanks
SmokinGruntsgood luck, that's a good lookin' amp
SmokinGruntsACTION winks at the amp
ub|kcurlyears: but wouldn't that only affect the loudspeakers?
SmokinGruntsHehehe... Still got it.
ub|kit happens when i'm using the headphone jack too
DocScrutinizer05headphones are a coupling to the speaker outputs
DocScrutinizer05only very high end amps have separate HP amp
SmokinGruntsheh sewage automation
SmokinGruntsHeh. stillll got it.
DocScrutinizer05ACTION wonders what automated sewage looks like
_abc_wow this is nasty
DocScrutinizer05automatic illumination for the shit to find its way down the pipes?
_abc_DocScrutinizer05: you'd be amazed at the collection of level meters, gas analyzers, thermometers and various actuator servos are used in modern sewage treatment
DocScrutinizer05ooh right
electrobotSpeedEvil just linked to Pill camera teardown - YouTube
_abc_Plus data buses, long range modems etc
transhumanGathis, thanks for the help found the information I was looking for on dogpile took 20 minutes must be the dmca take down notices for links by google that makes it so hard to find shit
DocScrutinizer05_abc_: and still there collects a several tons large fat blob under london and nobody notices?
DocScrutinizer05or was that a hoax?
DocScrutinizer05pill camera, WAAAANT!!
_abc_SpeedEvil: lol "donated by relatives who had it done recently"? It didn't come out when sheduled so they kept it?
_abc_DocScrutinizer05: I don't know about London's problems.
SpeedEvilthey do not always collect them in the hospital
SpeedEvilAs there is no reason to - they're not reused
SmokinGruntsyou guys get it, right?
SmokinGruntsACTION dies.
SmokinGruntsACTION needs a coffee and a buckshot to the head
Bird|otherbox_abc_: Edison base fuses? yup, still have 'em over here. original '50s era fuse box in this house
Gathistranshuman ok, glad you found what you wanted, i'd be interested myself. ITu and many standards bodies tho charge crazy money for standards
SmokinGruntsguys and gals see the new blade runner?
SmokinGruntsgood? bad? worth a watch?
Gathiswanting an electric sheep ? :)
SmokinGruntsyeah sorta
Gathisofftopic ;) but what i've seen from promos and reviews it looks good
Gathisnot seen it myself
_abc_Bird|otherbox: we also still have Edisons but they are NEVER transparent plastic, always ceramic or bakelite (old ones)
transhumanGathis and this
_abc_Bird|otherbox: probably because transparent plastic is not holding up to local "special Sunday night fuse replacements" meaning thin wires, coins, etc
Gathisthat doc isn't bad, i have some itu-t docs with similar info, but not as well presented
Gathishm, pastebin link just a dogpile search link ?
Gathistoasted bakelite .. burnt phenol, lovely
transhumanI originally thought the link was reallly long which is why I pasted it that way, it turned out to be short but I was too lazy to switch modes
_abc_SpeedEvil: having watched most of that video, I have to say there is no mention of the word Manchester encoding in it? I skipped a few parts but still?
_abc_The patterns on the scope are clearly Manchester.
_abc_Which is self synchronizing, and does not need a long preamble normally.
_abc_It can, however, train a receiver dsp to pick the later coming data out of the noise.
_abc_Returning to: -- I have been playing with a power meter plug in thing for a few days now, most loads in the house have pf 0.8 or below. Laptop psu certainly so, 0.5 ish.
_abc_Which is not so wonderful.
_abc_Looks like the old wisdom to get a UPS rated in VA 2x label Watts on the it equipment to power still holds true. Meaning 1200VA ups for a normal 500W psu pc + monitor and small things around it.
Gathistypical without PFC
_abc_pfc is mandatory from 60W up now I think. The laptop draws 60W when working hard, 25 idling. Not clear if the PF which the power meter measures is already applied. I assume yes.
Gathisi think domestically you're billed for watts not VA, so...
Gathisat low power the suppliers don't care
_abc_And the new meters, electronic, "try" (and fail) to account for pf. Always erring to the advantage of the electrical company, of course.
_abc_Gathis: rephrased: with the power you are billed for 10 wall warts idling at 2W each per month, you can probably buy one 'multi output' dc ups after one year.
Gathishm, perhaps, they should be accurate, but...
_abc_They are accurate but how accurate do you imagine they are.
curlyears76They SHOULD. All the distortion fromn all those <60W digital PSUS SI WR4EAKING HAVOC on the power dist5ribution system
_abc_0.1% is very accurate but still reads bullshit on a 2W wall wart when it's 0.1% of 3kW peak
Gathistrue that, but it's a tiny load
_abc_0.1% is 10 bit adc, typically. It gets worse when there are 2 10 bit adcs, one for current, one for voltage
SpeedEvil_abc_: Are you assuming that power factor is actually charged for?
DocScrutinizer05Gathis: transhuman: guess why old guys cal it "600R"
_abc_You have typically 10 tiny loads, it adds up
Gathissome plugin power meters i've seen don't do well with showing PF
SpeedEvil_abc_: because in most domestic cases, it's not, at all.
_abc_SpeedEvil: no, I am trying to figure out if this $12 power meter reads bs
_abc_At very small loads, specifically.
SpeedEvilI have a couple of power meters that would overread 150% on my PC PSU
SpeedEvilThat is - read it at 250% of nominal.
_abc_Do they display pf?
SpeedEvilThe PC PSU was one of those brought in at the beginning of power factor regulations.
_abc_SpeedEvil: irong core coil pfc?
SpeedEvilBut critically before harmonic regulations.
_abc_Those were and are common. Also you can retrofit an old psu with that
Gathisi'd guess power generators don't mind as higher power loads are often from motors which are inductive
SpeedEvilSo it took the 'novel' approach of adding a triac, triggered at the appropriate point to the bridge.
_abc_Gathis: of course it all evens out. Smaller distribution transformers are also L-shifting phase
SpeedEvilSo the power factor was indeed perfect, but if you have something that samples the peak value, the spike looks very, very misleading
_abc_SpeedEvil: oh noes
SpeedEvilThey were very upset by the microsecond risetime - they worked fine for diode bridge SMPS
Gathisthere are advantages to old old school moving coil meters :)
_abc_Electronic integration is a thing with thorns. The old eddy current power meters had very good performance for that.
_abc_Although they would barely turn with 0.1% rated load.
_abc_"subject to dust and age"
_abc_THIS is why the electrical company loves the new electronic ones which register even dielectric loss in wall wiring.
SpeedEvilMy electronic meter will actually stall at 20W by design.
SpeedEvil- revenue meter
_abc_SpeedEvil: disk type?
_abc_heh revenue meter
_abc_I have a neighbor who has an electronic meter, for a tiny 1.5 room place, it blinks away merrily with just wall warts idling in his wall.
_abc_I think the constant is 1 blink/Wh or so.
_abc_Just capacitive loss from wires in the walls will make it register.
SpeedEvilIf not exactly this, very close
SpeedEvilIt is specified to ignore capacitive reactance
SpeedEviland only run on real power
Gathishm, or maybe his neighbour has a tap ;)
SpeedEvil^charge for real power
_abc_ukp10 is fairly cheap
SpeedEvilnew they were 30 quid IIRC
_abc_SpeedEvil: it's not capacitive reactance you get billed for, there's dielectric loss in the insulation and wall.
SpeedEvildoubt it.
_abc_SpeedEvil: wall wiring measures out to ~10nF per room and wire or so
SpeedEvilyeah, and it's pretty good capacitance.
_abc_SpeedEvil: loss factor is 0.1-0.2 in ordinary concrete etc
_abc_D factor
SpeedEvilIf you have the wire directly buried in the wall, which is usually illegal.
_abc_I mean ordinary pvc wire in conduit in wall
SpeedEviljacketed wire will greatly reduce that, and conduit will almost eliminate it
_abc_Also pvc is not the best low loss insulator
_abc_Conduit is plastic, same pvc, sometimes worse quality dielectrically.
_abc_That's what we have in walls here.
_abc_Metal conduit is used in non masonry or concrete walls
_abc_Masonry and concrete walls use plastic conduit.
SpeedEvilI mean geometrically air dominates in conduit
_abc_Air, dead bugs, humid dust bunnies, slime dried onto insulation, mortar and plaster bits, etc
_abc_Also the return wire is right there.
SpeedEvilThe dielectric losses of the plastic and concrete are irrelevant compared to the air, if there is a layer of air
ub|kso, i hooked up the headphone output to a scope and I can see some random bursts of 2v high noise bits
_abc_So per lamp circuit or plug circuit per room, you get around 1-10nF
_abc_1nF for very short runs
_abc_SpeedEvil: humid air, humid pvc, humid dirt. Not the usual nice clean lab air.
SpeedEvil_abc_: doesn't matter.
_abc_I measured the loss with a bridge. And also old wiring is much worse
_abc_We have old wiring here.
SpeedEvilAs long as it's mostly airgap, it's not an issue.
_abc_It's not mostly airgap.
SpeedEvilFor wiring that may be leaky, or direcly buried, it's rather different.
SpeedEvilThis is not the usual legal case for new construction.
DocScrutinizer05((<SpeedEvil> It is specified to ignore capacitive reactance)) if anything, then *I* charge *them* for doing PF for them, for all the inductive loads
_abc_Some of the runs are simply in plaster.
_abc_I get like 3mW loss per nF with D 0.2 at 50Hz and 230V
DocScrutinizer05I think there are actual in stances where subcontractors charge the power supplier for connecting huge capacitive compensation loads to the PS' grid
ub|kdoes anybody know of a good site where i can find schematics/service manuals for old hifi amps?
_abc_ub|k: how old? Tubed?
_abc_DocScrutinizer05: factory sized, maybe. Otherwise, unlikely.
DocScrutinizer05while in tirn the PS charges industry for inductive loads
DocScrutinizer05yep, factory sized
SpeedEvilub|k: go old enough, and 'inside teh cover'
ub|k_abc_: from the 80s, not tube
DocScrutinizer05in industry parks there might be commercial providers doing inductive PF compensation for the whole park on behalf of the energy supplier
_abc_SpeedEvil: on your meter, the two 'led' like things are a coupler for reading it?
SpeedEvil_abc_: I assume so
SpeedEvilThere is no specified protocol for users
_abc_ub|k: search 'hifi service manuals'
ub|k_abc_: did already
_abc_SpeedEvil: of course not. What about power users?
SpeedEvil_abc_: getting another one and having a stab at reverse engineering it is on my list.
_abc_SpeedEvil: looks like they follow the same standard, 1000 pulses/kWh == 1 pulse/Wh
SpeedEvil_abc_: yes, I mean more than that.
DocScrutinizer05don't they do PowerLine comm now? or at very least WLAN, or even GSM?
_abc_SpeedEvil: that is not productive, instead, snoop on the reader wand type used.
_abc_DocScrutinizer05: most do not.
_abc_"ampy automation uk" could be a starting poing?
DocScrutinizer05in Spain it seems the companies can remote-shutdown your flat
_abc_optical electricity meter reading wand - interesting search
_abc_DocScrutinizer05: I am amazed Spaniards put up with paying vat on solar electricity they make and consume!
DocScrutinizer05also adjust your "admitted power" which is like an electronic master fuse in electronic meter
_abc_DocScrutinizer05: their meters are special for this!
_abc_DocScrutinizer05: remote control of various power related things was and is common, using carrier currents usually, in many countries in Europe.
_abc_DocScrutinizer05: it dates back to the 1930s probably, and was widely used from 1950s
DocScrutinizer05funny: switch on the stove while other stuff like heating already running -POOOF blackout. Run to consumer box and switch of master breaker for 10s, electricity is on again
DocScrutinizer05_abc_: that's for common control, not individual though
DocScrutinizer05like night tarriff heating
_abc_DocScrutinizer05: yes
DocScrutinizer05I can see and hear their 400(?) Hz control signals in the morning at 5:15
_abc_DocScrutinizer05: iirc Italy has some crummy power supply like that in many areas, you are allowed very few kW per house.
DocScrutinizer05hail LED lamps
_abc_It's not 400Hz but depending on how ancient it is is can be crest modulated.
Bird|otherbox_abc_, that's pretty ridiculous. you'd still have to pay VAT on your electricity if you were completely off-grid in Spain? WTF?
DocScrutinizer05in spain lowest tariff is 3.75kW
_abc_Bird|otherbox: yes. You use the privilege of having electricity.
_abc_Bird|otherbox: just like you owe fuel tax if you make your own fuel and drive with it, I guess?
_abc_The wonders of incomplete revolutions >;)
Bird|otherbox_abc_, wow. that sounds extremely awkward. how do you meter such things? standard-issue electricity meters aren't compatible with quite a few solar setups...
SpeedEvilBird|otherbox: don't assume that you can backfeed. You often can't.
_abc_Bird|otherbox: simple, you HAVE to have a meter. Picture cabin in the boonies, solar only, need a meter. I have no idea how much they enforce this but you can read on it on soar forums.
DocScrutinizer05>>110 Hz bis etwa 2000 Hz<<
Bird|otherboxSpeedEvil, I'm talking entirely off-grid here
SpeedEvilBird|otherbox: especially don';t assume you can backfeed for the same amount of money you pay
Bird|otherboxin Spain, apparently off-grid folks still pay VAT as a per kWh rate?!
_abc_DocScrutinizer05: that system goes back to 1930s when the receivers were resonant steel 'tuning forks'.
DocScrutinizer05yep :-D
Bird|otherboxwhich is kinda awkward because a standard meter will not run very well on a 12VDC bus for say a solar powered grade crossing warning system
_abc_ACTION eryly notes some website vists consume much more power than others running the laptop fan to 100% load >;)
DocScrutinizer05Bird|otherbox: I *think* you're not allowed to feed your own PV power into your local wiring after meter. That's the whole point
_abc_They should rate websites by javascript / bitcoin mining load, like any appliance. D, C, B, A, A+ ...
DocScrutinizer05so your PV goes local->public->local
Bird|otherboxDocScrutinizer05, how do you meter a 12VDC supply then?
Gathisand ad pulling bandwidth ;p
DocScrutinizer05not at all
Bird|otherboxI'm talking about setups where inverting would make ZERO SENSE
_abc_Bird|otherbox: there exist 12V and 24V etc 'Coulomb meters'
Bird|otherboxah, I see
Bird|otherboxthey'd issue you a special power meter
_abc_Again, not sure how / if they enforce it on unoconnected installations
DocScrutinizer05actually two
DocScrutinizer05one for outbound and one for inbound
DocScrutinizer05using your own energy runs across both
_abc_Let's not jump to conclusions, I did not see anything on dc power meters on the Spanish forums I alluded to.
Bird|otherboxDocScrutinizer05, assuming you are fully metered, how do they handle VAT if you are in a solar/battery hybrid system and arbitraging the grid on a small scale? do you get reimbursed the VAT if you buy power from the power company when it's cheap and sell it back to the grid at peak hour?
DocScrutinizer05completely offgrid is completely off authorities
DocScrutinizer05not allowed
DocScrutinizer05you need to place lamps on your PV panels to do so
_abc_DocScrutinizer05: right, seen any travellers recently?
Bird|otherboxwow. that's absolutely crazy law-wise
_abc_Bird|otherbox: everyone agrees. What now? Seek independence, like Catalonia? Wait...
_abc_Note "failed to register AND connect to the grid"
_abc_I.e. not off grid
Bird|otherboxinteresting. so it only applies to grid-tied systems
_abc_Bird|otherbox: the pv vat rules are clear, if you provide any power into the grid, then you must provide all of it, through a special meter, then consume from 'outside' power only
_abc_I don't know why, it's the way it is phrased
_abc_I assume if you use a solar UPS style inverter you are not feeding back, and using all of it locally, and nobody cares.
Bird|otherboxif a private entity had some sort of storage capacity, and approached them about wanting to use it to arbitrage the grid, I wonder how their messed-up utility would handle it :P
_abc_That being said, clearly, with arbitrary regulations like the above passed against many people's will, there will be a chill in solar adoption.
DocScrutinizer05FUCK YOU theoliveexpress!!! some auto-starting invisible audio playing on that page
DocScrutinizer05ACTION *HATES* that
_abc_Bird|otherbox: well one reason for the above strange regulation is, it weeds out any non standard feed-ins, which is probably a good thing, because a lot of non standard feed-ins can upset the grid. I don't know how things are in Spain but from what I heard from people who worked there, it's not exactly 1st world country electrical grid, especially in the countryside.
restorerheh, oliveexpress sounds like South Korea's gourmet food answer to aliexpress
DocScrutinizer05it's not _abc_
_abc_I just found that through google, no special connection with that site.
_abc_Sculptor: spinachexpress?
Bird|otherbox_abc_, true, that is a point.
DocScrutinizer05they have more brownouts in a week than we in Germany have in 10 years
_abc_DocScrutinizer05: yes, now imagine what happens to 20,000 cheap Chinese inverters feeding into the grid during a brownout.
DocScrutinizer05LOL yeah
_abc_Can we put out 20,000 electrical fires in 30 minutes? No.
_abc_Re: flying red cars: the returning boosters use the same fuel used for liftoff for braking? I think not? The turbopumps are kept running all the time while descending?
DocScrutinizer05yes, no. AFAIK
_abc_Bird|otherbox: so the Spanish sun tax DOES tax even people who produce for self consumption
DocScrutinizer05_abc_: the center booster got lost (according to SpeedEvil iirc) because the starter fuel (for pumps?) ran out
_abc_The brown clouds seen when the boosters landed seem to indicate non RP1 fuel burning, imo. I could be wrong.
Bird|otherboxthe clouds are sooty RP1/LOX smoke, its the same fule as landing
_abc_DocScrutinizer05: they ignite using Tonka, chemical hypergolic? liquid. It can run out.
SpeedEvilStarter fuel is TEA/TEB - this is a hypergolic liquid which is used as an ignitor for the engines.
Bird|otherboxDocScrutinizer05, no, ignition fluid for the engines itself, yeah TEAL/TEB
DocScrutinizer05_abc_: those brown clouds could be due to lack of water damping while landing
_abc_DocScrutinizer05: err not Tonka, a more modern equivalent.
SpeedEvilFor some reason, the outer two engines on the booster did not start - only he middle one.
Bird|otherboxDocScrutinizer05, they're probably more soot than anything else
_abc_SpeedEvil: were they supposed to start?
SpeedEvil_abc_: yes.
_abc_SpeedEvil: also do they have post mortem telemetry?
SpeedEvil_abc_: Yes.
_abc_Soot is not brown. Usually.
SpeedEvilTehre is very little TEA/TEB - some kilos.
_abc_Nitric fumes are brown.
_abc_What Hydrazine gives off when burning incompletely in air.
SpeedEvilIt's not a meaningful amount, compared to the several tons of RP1 at that point
_abc_Also rfna
SpeedEvilMassive cloud of smoke/steam, illuminated by orange = brown
_abc_Well nobody was wearing hazmat suits. That means it was probably not rfna or Hydrazine...
SpeedEvilThere is no RFNA or hydrazine on F9/H
SpeedEvilTEA/TEB - a few tens of kilos, and hundreds of tons of LOX/RP1
_abc_Bird|otherbox: ok, so the last link finally clarifies who pays what and who does not. Stand alone ones and under 10kW do not pay
DocScrutinizer05hydrazine only used by military nowadays? because of it being a bitch
Bird|otherboxyeah. it's all RP1/LOX with cold gas (N2) for the thrusters? and TEAL/TEB mix for ignition
SpeedEvilAnd hydraulic fluid of course.
Bird|otherboxand yeah, hydraulic fluid for the fins n' legs + helium as all purpose pressurant
_abc_DocScrutinizer05: Hydrazine types are used in water treatment and chemical industry quite widely.
DocScrutinizer05I meant as fuel
DocScrutinizer05rocket fuel to be precise
SpeedEvilBird|otherbox: the legs use helium IIRC too.
_abc_Hydraulics are heavy? Those legs look like they are pushed out by large gas cylinders.
SpeedEvilBird|otherbox: the fins use hydraulic fluid of some sort
Bird|otherboxcould be that the legs are helium
DocScrutinizer05I wondered about the leg cylinders too
DocScrutinizer05look too massive for being full of liquid
_abc_One assumes they will have locks locking them down or up powered by something else
DocScrutinizer05yep, exactly
restorerhrm, chrome has changed its "Mute Tab" option to "Mute Site", which persists on that site despite reloads until disabled
_abc_ still reading, page 2
_abc_I have the smart (6th sense!) thing on my Whirlpool aircon remote. HATE it. It keeps reverting to internal settings every time I set it up the way I need.
_abc_Also funky ir remote control protocol, designed to thwart reverse engineering and learning remote controls.
Mad7ScientistIs it some kind of rotating code thing that changes each time?
tpw_rulesso i'm looking at this ADC with a comb filter on the output. it's got a configurable oversampling ratio which decreases the output rate by however many x oversamples. is there magic in there i can't replicate by reading it faster and accumulating?
_abc_Do we really need 2 encrypted/secured packets at least 64 bits each, more than a second apart?
_abc_Mad7Scientist: I don't know, it includes wall clock time as 'salt' I think, and checksums.
Mad7ScientistHow much does the replacement remote control cost?
DocScrutinizer05>>The systems feature a "Drying" mode that aims to reduce humidity without (much) cooling. Stop here for a moment and think how you might accomplish this given the technology at hand in the heat-pump system. I'll wait.<< Simple: feed the compressed hot medium to late evaporator then to depressurizing valve then to early evaporator. I *massively* doubt they did it this way
_abc_There is only OEM for this one. It's $20-25
SpeedEvil_abc_: things that make you go 'I wonder if I should just replace the control electronics with a raspberry or something'
_abc_SpeedEvil: yeah but no, working on the indoor unit is murder
_abc_Also I had to tape black tape over the blue led readout which is so bright I can't sleep with it lit
Mad7ScientistApparently new refrigerators and similar appliances sold in the US for the last several years don't last more than 10 years.
_abc_Mad7Scientist: what dies 1st, cutting edge optimized mechanics or the electronics?
SpeedEvil'yeah, the PCBs fucked, and we can't get the parts'
Mad7ScientistI don't know
tpw_rulesat least in my experience the repairs are trivial
tpw_rulesthe service techs lie tho
SpeedEviltpw_rules: Lieing isn't required if they don't have the clue to repair it, and assume they do have the most clue available.
Mad7ScientistI would assume that the compressors, fan motors, and electronics start to fail
MacGeekthe problem is that almost nobody does component level repairs anymore
tpw_rulesnot even component level repairs
MacGeekthey just swap assemblies
tpw_rulesfixed a friend's microwave, the tech tried to charge them $800 for a new control board
Mad7ScientistWhat microwave is worth $800?
tpw_rulesopened it up and the input choke caught fire. swapped it with a new one for $25 and good to go
tpw_rulesa rich people one
tpw_rulesit's a drawercrowave
Mad7ScientistA local exhaust repair shop here doesn't know what galvanic corrosion is
DocScrutinizer05on topic: my 700bucks water heater control is fecked, ADC reads out ~10°C too high temperatures on one sensor. No schematics, no repair, only spare control board for 250 bucks >:-((
Mad7ScientistI guess this is to be expected
restorertpw_rules: like one of those super-compact Japanese ones?
Mad7ScientistIS it a gas water heater?
tpw_rulesrestorer: yeah
tpw_rulesit replaces a drawer in your rich person marble covered kitchen island
Mad7ScientistI have a Honeywell control board. It is open at the bottom and sealed on top and it has a conformal coating. They don't want any failure to cause natural gas to get stuck on!
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer05: Leetle peltier, problem solved.
DocScrutinizer05SpeedEvil: hm?
SpeedEvilpeltier around the sensor
Mad7Scientistuse a resistor
SpeedEvil(though if it's 10C down, it's gonna be 20C down soon likely)
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer05: do you mean an overheat stat? Scaling?
DocScrutinizer05it has ingree water temp, out water temp, and volumeter, and controls 3*8kW and a valve to reduce flow when heating can't do it anymore
DocScrutinizer05complex regulation with fancy programs like 2shock you for 10s with cold wazter" etc
tpw_rulessounds like a job for an arduino
DocScrutinizer05it prolly *is* sth like that, plus analog shit after it, when the "arduine" fails completely
SpeedEvilAn open-source appliances project would be kinda awesome.
DocScrutinizer05I suspect an analog PID regulator adjusted and controlled by a MCU
SpeedEvilCases are an issue.
DocScrutinizer05when everything nifty fails in that thing, it defaults to ~30°C
adicarloSpeedEvil: yes to that!
adicarloi find it kinda creepy when you buy a plug in appliance where you have to register your wifi password with some chinese server
SpeedEvil'Oh - your pump has failed, just replace at the standard junction with this pump, which is the cheapest, and wire it to the interface unit like this'
Bird|otherboxadicarlo, yah, that's no good
_abc_Arduino controlled gas appliances give me the willies just thinking about them
SpeedEvil_abc_: wrap them in relay logic.
_abc_I have a friend who repairs control boards for a living, component level.
_abc_SpeedEvil: Relays are what dies 1st.
_abc_Some furnace controls used only transistors! Try still work.
Bird|otherbox_abc_, yeah, or the PCB itself :P
_abc_But they were made by safety experts and vetted and tested for safe fail modes.
adicarloalso the arduino folks tend to not really understand mains or mains safety very well
_abc_I also assume some had some sort of military engineering background. From what I saw >;)
Bird|otherbox_abc_, well, I wouldn't use the Arduino frameworks for a gas control either :P
_abc_I mean, making a complete furnace control with about 12 ordinary transistors, including the flame sensing and safety circuits, and a few relays, one bistable/latching for fault lockout, is wicked like that.
_abc_even in 1975.
Bird|otherboxyah, that is pretty nifty
_abc_(and passing all relevant safety tests too)
Bird|otherboxthe flame sense circuits out there are actually kinda crazy
_abc_No, they are neat actually.
Bird|otherboxdiscrete JFET inputs due to the high impedances involved
Bird|otherboxthey're neat too :D
_abc_This one was too old for ionization gauge, used thermocouple style.
adicarlo_abc_: amen for simplicity
adicarloan art we're losing
_abc_adicarlo: nono, it's bloody hard to understand.
_abc_adicarlo: simulating that was fun.
adicarlowell, lets say, design using an economy of components
_abc_adicarlo: not really, pretty sure they selected and TESTED each component used there
Bird|otherboxadicarlo, sometimes Muntzing a design is the right move, and sometimes it's the WRONG move haha
_abc_safety related.
kmcsimplicity of design and ease of understanding are different axes
Bird|otherboxkmc: yah
_abc_Muntzing a gas control is going to make you fly so high.
adicarloi wasn't aware that I claimed they were using untested components
tpw_rulesadicarlo: i think he means hand picked by nude virgins
adicarloby "economy of parts" I mean using few parts
_abc_Not really, probably just passed some bake and then transistor meter tests.
_abc_12 transistors is not "a few" for a simple sequencer and thermostat.
tpw_rulesbut like you couldn't just stuff a pile of transistors into a pile of boards and have them work
adicarlo_abc_: its a few relative to an MPU
_abc_Yes, well, then you have happy idiots who throw a mcu at the problem, cue blue display, blinky leds, and lots of failures. I happen to know one particular series of Italian condensing furnaces which are available with 'simple' turn knobs+mcu control, and 'fancy' lcd+buttons. Guess which one is reliable?
_abc_The turn knob simple kind is what I have here >;)
tpw_rulesbut it still has an mcu you said
_abc_Had to tighten some wires once, that's all.
_abc_Yes it has but it does the ignite and monitor and sequence job.
_abc_The other one is for visual tetris games and programming like in the dark ages of home recording vcrs
_abc_Every autumn I have to reprogram the large fancy one downstairs for my neighbor because it tends to forget it's complex programming.
_abc_A dual thermostat and clock switch would have fixed it permanently and that's the way they did it since 1935.
adicarlo_abc_: so explain "forget its programming" -- something is clearing the onboard flash on the MPU ?
_abc_Nope, stupid design which causes the sram stored data to be wiped into error mode when the wall unit wired remote's batteries are weak while mains power cycles.
adicarlo_abc_: oh wow
_abc_The batteries kill me, you need to replace them every year. If you forget, see above.
adicarlointerested in this failure mode b/c someone else was claiming it in an unrelated context (kiwi dish washer)
MacGeekso what's the brand so we can avoid it?
_abc_It's historic, more than 10 years old now, not relevant.
adicarlosuppose I have a triode acting as an AF amp, with cathode biased at 5V, grid at 0V, 140V on the plate -- we can conclude the input signal it wants is something like -3 to +3 Vrms, right?
_abc_Also no manual mode on the furnace when the remote wired 'intelligent' unit is connected. No way to tinker with settings locally. You can see but can't touch.
vanunamednow, you tell me, if a fridge is capable of drawing up to 7 times its rated wattage
_abc_MacGeek: the fancy troubled one is German, not .it
vanunamednow a washing machine motor can do the same now?
_abc_vanunamed: my power meter used on the fridge lately showed peak inrush 1080W at 230V but when compressor is on, 120W
_abc_So yes, 10x nameplate inrush is common in such small compressor motors.
vanunamedbut not a washing machine motor
_abc_Same thing
_abc_Unless electronic controlled washing machine motor, that should not draw such a peak
vanunamedyes, electronic ones
vanunamednot the very old one
_abc_How electronic? VFD variable speed or just triacs?
vanunamedI have to check, if it's just triacs?
_abc_VFD does not do the inrush thing. Triacs do it.
vanunamedah ok
vanunamedassuming I have some very large electrolytic capacitors
vanunamedbig as in big as a shoebox
vanunamedcan I do something with them to lessen this effect?
adicarloseries choke?
_abc_Without the inrush current the motor won't start
_abc_under load
adicarlothe start issue
vanunameddoesnt the capacitors store energy
vanunamedfor this purpose?
vanunamedtats my inverter
vanunamed-Putere nominala: 600W
vanunamed-Perioada scurta de maxim de putere:950, 10s
vanunamed-Unda putere: 1200, 1.5s
vanunamednominal power 600W, 10s at 950W and 1200 for 1.5 seconds
vanunamedmy fridge will be 120W
vanunamedI am out of luck uh aha
tpw_rulesit should start in less than 1.5 seconds
_abc_adicarlo: depends a lot on the triode. You should indeed not get 'too near' to the cathode self bias voltage with the input pk-pk voltage. So you probably want maybe 4Vpkpk input
vanunamedbatteries will be skukum fuckers
vanunamedtrojan ones 280aH
adicarlo_abc_: aye thanks
vanunamed_abc_: and thanks btw.
_abc_adicarlo: note that gets you lots of distortion too.
adicarlo_abc_: what does ?
_abc_adicarlo: <2Vpkpk is probably a better idea. Most triodes have datasheets online now, you can look up the bias graph for yours
_abc_large input signal
_abc_The assumption is very small input signal vs bias voltage on cathode.
adicarloright, wanna be on the flat part of te load line
vanunamedif I buy an air conditioner thats inverter
vanunamedi'm not going to get this shit am I lol
Caspervanunamed: inverters are usually not great at running motors... In fact, they are terrible at it
_abc_vanunamed: that will indeed not draw 10x nameplate when run
_abc_Casper: inverter means VFD here
vanunamedDC inverter ofc
vanunamedi mean, Air con with DC compressor
_abc_do not use a dc inverter to power large loads
Casperas for inverter A/C, mine do not make the light house flash when it start at all, my 5000btu had a small light variation
_abc_buy caravan/boat a/c microwave, etc. They run off 24Vdc or 12Vdc
vanunamedand what should one use instead if you just have solar
_abc_vanunamed: ^ caravan/boat etc units
adicarlo_abc_: depressing answer though b/c I think I underpowered this amp somehow when recapping it; in testing I mistakenly was thinking I wasn't driving the first stage hard enough
_abc_vanunamed: you're in .ro? Bucharest?
_abc_adicarlo: you probably did not underpower it but there may be 'weak' tubes? Do you have an emission tester?
Casper_abc_: caravan ones run on AC, not on house battery... Same with microwave
adicarlo_abc_: no I have a proper Gm tester and I replaced the output tubes with new
_abc_Casper: some do some do not. In Europe we have small boats and caravans
vanunamedno countryside
_abc_adicarlo: did you rebias per instructions?
Caspernewer caravan may come with an inverter that is powerfull enought for the microwave
_abc_Casper: no
Casperatleast here it is like this
adicarlo_abc_: hmm, I checked my voltage operating points as per spec and that's all I had time for
_abc_Casper: normal 'iron' microwave is only 50-60% efficient electrically. Add to this inverter efficiency and you're better off burning money under the pot to heat it
_abc_adicarlo: I don't know. Some 'new' tubes are very different from old ones. Exact same type used?
Casper_abc_: yet, that is what they do here in canada for all caravan/rv/trailers/motor house
_abc_Casper: all caravan/boat microwaves are electronic inverter type, expensive, and quite efficient, >85%
Casper_abc_: maybe in your corner of the world, not in canada
_abc_Casper: you have the problem of too cheap electricity. Wait for ms. Whiny (sp?) to fix that and you'll upgrade to inverter microwaves soon.
adicarlo_abc_: yes, 6BQ5 aka EL84
adicarlo_abc_: I didn't consider rebiasing the output tubes though
_abc_There is a problem with the AKA with some tubes
_abc_They are made 'new' for specific uses now, like audiophools, and they sometimes are very different from oem old ones
_abc_What did you mean by 'underpowering' it?
_abc_ still reading, interesting US-specific woes with a 2 "phase" transformer feeding a house.
adicarlo_abc_: well not enough input signal I meant
_abc_adicarlo: did you check whether the feedback related resistor(s) did not go high/low in value?
adicarloyes no problems there
adicarlowhat I didn't test is taking it up to full power while watching supply lines and looking at the output distortion etc
adicarloalthough I don't think that's my problem (per se)
_abc_Maybe the amp sounded 'hot' due to the bad caps and that's considered normal ;)
_abc_ this guy's pole transformer is saturating. It might catch on fire some day.
adicarlobtw, this is a hifi not a guitar amp so we're lookoing for fidelity not cute distortion
_abc_adicarlo: ah. Well tube amps typically want a lot more than 2Vpp input.
_abc_~2.2Vpp is 0dBm on 600 ohms
_abc_That's normal input for any non-toy amp.
adicarloaye -- there's a lot of uncertainty b/c this is a freaking giant console record player -- I had just grabbed the (40lb) power amp for recapping and fixing a dead left channel (which was an open load resistor on the first AF stage)
_abc_And it should have decent headroom at that, 20dB or so of it.
_abc_Well if you found one open r measure all of them. There may be more.
n2Incidentally, that’s not too far from professional line level audio
_abc_n2: yes
n2which has its 0dB point at 3.47Vpp
_abc_that 0dBm+3 or +4
_abc_what you said
adicarlo_abc_: oh I did
n2I should have prefixed
adicarloon reinstallation both channels work, sound is quite good (not great bass response but I didn't touch the pre-amp), but levels are rather low, gotta crank everything up to 10 to get decent sound
n2or rather, suffixed
n2Many dB’s abound in audio
_abc_it's 0dBm+6 I think.
_abc_adicarlo: with the same source as before the repair?
n2there’s dBu, dBv and dBm… and dBFS...
_abc_FS? PMPO?
n2Full Scale
adicarlo_abc_: yes
adicarlowell lets see if it comes back to me or not :P *sigh*
zigggggyACTION executes batch
_abc_return reason "amp sounds too good"...
kmcwhich one is what laymen mean by "decibels" as a measure of loudness
batchowow zigggggy zigggggy zigggggy
zigggggyACTION hugs batch
batchACTION get dizzy 
_abc_kmc: neither
batchfrom zzzzzzzzzziggy
zigggggyACTION pets batch
_abc_kmc: dBSPL is one way
batchwould i group the nickname gizzzzzy?
batchzigggggy ?
n2kmc: that would be sound pressure level...
adicarlo_abc_: is it a good practice when reconditioning these old guys to replace the tube rectifier with solid state?
n20dB is defined as the threshold of average human hearing, kmc...
adicarlo_abc_: i have an intuition that the rectifier is showing more resistance to AC than it should, causing my voltages to sag under load
n2and coressponds to ~20 micropascals
n2of pressure differential
_abc_adicarlo: sometimes. But the delayed HV on given by the tube rectifiers is lost, that can cause problems. Also the very low resistance of the silicon diodes. You usually add some high Watt resistor in series with the slicon diode bridge to make up for the increased B+
_abc_adicarlo: that can be measured
Xionabathanks for suggesting kiCad. surprisingly easy to use
bobo1on1rectifiers last a long time though
adicarlo_abc_: right -- plus the transition from 117 to 127 or so
_abc_adicarlo: yes! if the transformer has taps for 127 use them
vanunamedACTION cries because he moved and he didn't hve time to plant daffodils and now there won't be any daffodils
bobo1on1to be fair the delayed B+ on my tube amp is only 5 seconds or so, after that you can already see the voltage regulator tube glowing
adicarlocould probably leave the old rectifier in the socket for the looks, but unheated/unconnected
n2adicarlo: it’s not much look if it ain’t glowing
adicarlowell still better than an unpopulated socket
_abc_adicarlo: you can leave the heater on, why not
n2keep the filament powered
n2or install some amber LEDs...
n2a dead tube looks worse than no tube
adicarlouse the heater as series resistance for the mains hot !
_abc_That's not allowed
adicarlono i wouldn't do that
adicarloi did put a fuse on the mains hot but otherwise left alone
adicarlook, enough worrying, que sera, sera
bobo1on1also the rectifier heater causes a load on the transformer, if you remove it, all the voltage go up a bit
_abc_ah I had font terminal issues
kmcn2: 20 micropascals peak deviation?
_abc_What is TSCI instead of ASCII ?
n2kmc: i … believe so
adicarlo_abc_: never heard of that one
n2i think TSCI is some creation of said author
CasperACTION don't understands the goal of those online pharmacy spam.... there is no link or mention of the actual place name!
bobo1on1you don't want to buy viagra?
n2Viagra and OxyContin
Casperno, but even if I wanted, I can't even get it!
n2There’s a sucker born every minute
_abc_ more US sided house issues
Casper"All generic medications represented on our website are FDA-approved, meaning they have met strict standards with respect to identity, quality, purity, and potency. " <==== that is the full spam message
_abc_Casper: when your browser loads the page it may load malware
Casper_abc_: there is nothing
_abc_Casper: upgrade to Internet Exploder and try again
Casper_abc_: again, nothing
_abc_Is this email?
Casperthe body is plain text
_abc_Ah. No hidden pic, nothing?
_abc_Return address looks funny?
_abc_There still is such a thing as a honest ascii ad email, with proper working return address (which may be a spam trap itself, logging you onto a spam list forever)
Casperreturn address is a and look normal
Casperreally, I think someone screwed up
Caspermy guess is that they did a kind of forward, which killed all the embedded stuff
_abc_Maybe. Or some filters stripped it on the way. Valid anti spam policy.
_abc_ : ENH202 29dBm tx power is quite strong!
_abc_ ick 10dB gain antenna. Need a lot more there for such ranges.
_abc_29 dBm is a lot of power really. With a slighlty more decent antenna it should go cleanly much farther.
_abc_$77 unit too, need 2 pcs normally.
_abc_And no visible SMA connector for external antenna
_abc_I mean, connect this, and...
jaggzCasper, I know a guy who knows a guy
aandrewCasper: a fly by night supplier who cuts corners even on their spam? unthinkable!
Casperjaggz: who also knows a guy who is the best friend of kim jong un?
jaggzCasper, is that the first place your thoughts of obtaining viagra go?
Casperseriously, if I needed that, I would just ask a doctor to get it prescribed
_abc_ good diy antenna link
bobo1on1the idea is probably that you have to reply to the spam message to get their website url
Casperand most likelly get it for free
Casper_abc_: yeah more black magic
bobo1on1I sometimes order from a russian pharmacy
FauxUgh, the socket on this LED tape has smaller pins than my crimping connector set, and smaller than most of my breadboard cables; some fit, though.
bobo1on1russia has different medications than europe :)
bobo1on1so nobody cares
_abc_ excellent
Whiskey`as much as i love uf, you know he shut down cause he got caught stealing from other artists
_abc_bobo1on1: this reminds me I once got garlic powder from the supermarket, and cheaped out. It was sawdust. I checked the maker, yes, far east. Now I buy the 10c more expensive one.
Whiskey`i wish he would have used that to move on and do more of his own stuff with uf instead of runnign away
_abc_jaggz: problems?
jaggzthat's from the page you linked _abc_
_abc_jaggz: that solder joint is about 1mm sized
_abc_at most
jaggzI have a usb high gain wifi dongle
_abc_how "high"?
_abc_Sigh, another marketing victim
jaggzbetter reception than my others though
radenDoes anyone have a Rigol 1000 series scope ? I'm apparently loosing my mind .... I have a 1054Z and cannot get it to store and load waveforms .... is there something special that needs to be done ( followed the manual ) it save and loads but nothing there and all my save files are the same size ....
tgeekyraden: i do
radentgeeky, I record lets say 200 frames and then I save waveforms to the usb stick
tgeekyraden: first, have you tried and checked saving screenshots
radenI try to load that like I would on my 1102E and well nothing ....
tgeekyjust to make sure the usb disk isn't the problem?
radenI can save screenshots
tgeekyi've never saved a waveform
radendo that all the time
radenI had to get my salea logic out the other day and my hantek usb scope cause I cannot get the rigol to work sooo frusterated
radentgeeky, any chance you could give it a try
tgeekyraden: this issue sounds very vaguely familiar, but i can't imagine it hasn't been fixed
tgeekyraden: of course, it may take a few minutes
radenthatd be great
radenI have updated firmware etc ....
radenSeriously frusterated
tgeekyraden: one thing to check: when you save screenshots it automatically assumes to save to USB, but maybe it's trying to save the waveform to 'internal'?
tgeekyso perhaps check that
radenI have to be doing somethingwrogn
radenwhen i go into storage i save to external usb
radeni have checked internal memory for files as ell
_abc_ this is such a no-brainer. What's wrong with 'notj' ?
tgeekyraden: i chose a rather complicated waveform, but it's sure taking its sweet time saving it. does it take long for you?
radenmine takes the same amount of time all the time
radenthats what suspicious
raden20 frames of 2000
radenand its always the same file size
lemgragocan someone please help me identify this component?
tgeekyraden: i just saved a composite video frame, 6M pts @ 250 MS/s. I got "NewFile1.wfm" in folder "NewFolder1" as 6.0 MB
radenhow exactly did you save it step by step
radenlemgrago, looks like a microphone
tgeekyraden: storage -> select waves; save -> select D: ; new folder -> enter new folder name (default); select folder; new file -> enter new file name (Default); OK; wait; back button.
lemgragoraden: are there mics with three leads? I would only expect two
tgeekylemgrago: i learned recently there are piezeoelectric buzzers that have 3 leads
tgeekythey are self-resonant buzzers designed to be as loud as possible
radenlemgrago, powered ones yes
radenlemgrago, and i was just going to say a buzzer
radenseen small disc vibrating motors like that tooo
radentgeeky, so just record and stop like I normally would and then just do like you did I should be good ?
lemgragookay. and the M+, M- being Vin/Vout?
tgeekyraden: i never pressed stop, it did that automatically
radenlemgrago, put a meter on it or a scope
lemgragogood point. thank you raden & +tgeeky
drewmuttIs there any household microwaves out there that are actually variable levels as opposed to essentially being PWM?
radentgeeky, are your wave files wfm extensions ?
tgeekyraden: yep; the only thing perhaps i did that you didnt from first guess was i made a new folder
radenI did record and exactly what you did 5120 frames and its 15.4K file
tgeekyperhaps you are trying to save them to top level
tgeekyraden: wait you are recording like a movie?
radentop level of the directory ?
radenutility > record
radenRun and then stop
radenand then save like you do
radenthats how my other 2 scopes work
radenLemee try a different usb stick just to be certain , reconfirmed the picture save and then tried stick in other 2 scopes as well no issues with them
tgeekywhat I did was storage -> (waves)
radenthats exactly what im doing
radenand then saving to a directory on the USB stick
tgeekyi don't have a way to view the file
radenyou should be able to load it on the scope
tgeekyok one sec
radenclick storage > waves then storage > load
radenthen you should be able to go to utilit > play and play them frame by frame
tgeekyraden: i think you or I are conflating two different things. the way I captured a waveform, it's getting a single capture. I can load it back up on the screen (in STOP mode)
tgeekybut it's not recording a bunch of frames
tgeekyi can try that, of course, but that's not what I did
tgeeky(for that, I think I'd have to start with Utility -> Record)
radenYes utility record is what im trying to do
radenrecording and loading waveforms
raden so you can play them back
bobo1on1_abc_: lol, at least was it saw dust from the garlic plant?
tgeekyraden: after looking and reading the manual, I don't think it's possible to "save" the recorded waveform like this
tgeekyraden: *perhaps* you could do a record, and then save individual waveforms; but since your frame count is so high this is impractical
tempateWhat's the difference between #Bit Line and Bit line?
tgeekytempate: the #? kidding aside, perhaps one is the number of bit lines, and the 2nd one is the actual specific bit line
tgeekye.g. #bitline = 12; then bitline = 1; then 2; then 3 ...
tgeekyraden: <--this
tgeekysite suggests on the older rigol there was a "storage and recall recordings"
tempateoh, I see what you mean, thanks tgeeky
tempateI'm not sure what the number of Bit lines has to do in the design I just sent though
tgeekytempate: in this case, # is just another line
tgeekytempate: e.g on the page that you got that picture from, the other diagram has __BL__ and BL
tempateoh, alright
tgeekymeaning one is the NOT of the other
tempateyeah, that's what I initially thought # meant
tempateI'm not sure I'm seeing how that circuit would store a bit
tempatewould the bit to store come from the Bit line or the Word line?
radentgeeky, interesting my older scopes I can playback waveforms thats the whole point os a DSO
tgeekyraden: well, this scope can record and playback, but perhaps only on the scope itself.
tgeekyraden: you can of course try to do things when hooked up to a computer
radenmy old rigol will load it so I can go frame by frame
radenRecord and playback on the scope is fine but ugh need to be able to save data an collaborate with other engineers out of state at times
tgeekyraden: well, again, you can connect to various tools using lxi or the rigol software, or various record modes. I know that the fastest you can e.g. take a screenshot from the scope is ~ 3 frames per second, or so.
tgeekyBut I think you can probably capture waveform data faster than that especially if your waveforms are small
radenI have ethernet setup its to laggy :(
radenI just need to get data off the scope
tgeekyUSB is faster
tgeekybut not by much
radenlooking at buying a different scope
tgeekyraden: this is a weakness the rigol has that I'm not aware of
radenwell if its stored internally i just need to get it off
radenThere are a lot of weaknesses on these scopes
tgeekyraden: yeah, but if it doesn't let you see it, or it's not stored in a "file" format
tgeekyraden: well, like I said, this is just one I'm not aware of. This is my only scope, and I'm aware of weaknesses.
radenthere good
radenjust stuff like this is frusterating
tgeekyraden: if you are really capturing that many frames, perhaps a LA really would be a better option. Otherwise perhaps you can trigger on a smaller number and save them?
tgeekyit seems bizzare that you can't get this data off the scope. It looks like the more expensive scopes have an "Open" and "Analyze" option under Record.
radenhonestly I use my saleae more than anything itll do digital and analog
tgeekyI still don't exactly see a "Save" option.
radenits computer based and flawless but it only records doesnt show data in real time
tgeekyraden: i have a knockoff saelae and i love it
radentgeeky, yea there great saves a ton of time
tgeekyraden: yep; there is another open-source-ish LA that does both realtime and recorded mode that isn't too bad
DocScrutinizer05rigol slowness? seen that. It's getting MUCH worse while "RUN", need to "STOP" scope to read out data
tgeekyit's good for up to 200 MHz I think
tgeekyDocScrutinizer05: it's not about slowness
tgeekyDocScrutinizer05: i mean, in a sense if he tried to get all of this waveform data by USB or ethernet, it would be slow, but that's not the point; we can create the data and see it on the scope, it's just getting it out that seems difficult
DocScrutinizer05sorry for lazyness, can you one-line-update me? not going to read the backscroll
radenWhen im doing 4 ch my rigol is crap :(
tgeekyDocScrutinizer05: he's done a 1054z "Record" of about 5000 frames, and wants to export them all
DocScrutinizer05yep, exactly what I meant
tgeekyDocScrutinizer05: but you can't export "record" records, you can only play them back; You can export what's on the screen, 1 frame at a time.
DocScrutinizer05though that also sucks quite a bit
tgeekyraden: apparently there is no way to export the whole set of recroded frames. If you do storage -> waveform, you just get one frame. same with trace.
DocScrutinizer0524M dots
tgeekyraden: unfortunately the only competitior in anywhere near the same price range is the new siglent, and so far they have been pretty shitty as far as support goes
radentgeeky, gah that is soooo stupid : (
tgeekyDocScrutinizer05: that is a single frame
radenrigol support sucks to
DocScrutinizer05err uhuh
DocScrutinizer05ok, then I never tried multiple frames
radenyet my old rigol stores multiple frames
tgeekyraden: yes, but when e.g. the were real hardware issues, they replaced things. siglent has a probe compensation problem (their frontend was released without critical capacitors or wrong value ones) and they are just sending out capacitors
radenfireing up ultrascope :(
radenOh jesus
radenhonestly the best price / performance / just works for the money I have used is probably BK precision
radenthere not great
radenthere not bad
radenthey just work
DocScrutinizer05actually now you point me at it, I realite it evades me what for you need / use frames
radenbut $1200 vs $500 rigol
tgeekyraden: much, much worse (perhaps, though smaller # of people): their lowend specan (still $2k) was made with an incorrectly sized sheidling cage; they are just replacing the cage, they are not recalibrating
radenDocScrutinizer05, ?
DocScrutinizer05does it trigger per frame?
tgeekyDocScrutinizer05: I think it must be so by definition; either T'D or AUTO
tgeekyotehrwise it would not be a new frame
DocScrutinizer05aah ok then
DocScrutinizer05must be more than a year since I last read the rigol 1xxx manual, but I seem to recall their explanation about frames feature made zilch sense to me
linexti bought a Nest Fire Alarm
radenIt triggers how you have it set
radenanything over like 100 ms or something does it by frame soooooo annoying
linextthe wiring is supposed to be internal but my current fire alarm has a cord
radenthere are ways to get around that
tgeekyraden: DocScrutinizer05: the issue really is that 'frames' only exists in the context of the Record functionality.
radenand then you only get 1/2 screen usable cause the trace keeps reseting
linexthow hard is it to add an internal wired firealarm?
tgeekyraden: the only way I can think of doing this at all, would be to do a normal recording; and then write a script or something to control the scope to dump each frame by frame out as .wfm s
DocScrutinizer05raden: I guess that explains why I instantly forgot about that feature
tgeekyraden: just move the trigger location fully to the left of the screen, and then move it 1 pixel offscreen
tgeekyraden: the same thing helps with the slowly updating half of the screen problem on longer acquisitions
DocScrutinizer05anyway, in only loosely related context, you might (or might not) find useful
tgeekyi use and love rigol bildschkimpijaodsf
radentgeeky, thanks
radenI have a lot of rigol stuff
radenand it works
tgeeky <-- that utility is great for creating GIFs from rigol screen captures
radenjust things I wish it did better or just did that would make my life easier
radentgeeky, my $79 hantek USB scope records and stores multiple frames
tgeekyraden: the only thing I Think might be worth trying is exporting as CSV
radenand the software works better than rigol ultrascope :(
tgeekymaybe CSV will export all of the frames
tgeekybut then, of course, you can't load that back on the scope
radentgeeky, I think thatll work ill try it in a bit
radenIf I can load it to a graph itll be good enough
radenjust one frame is not enough data
tgeekyraden: here's a capture i made:
tgeekyit's over a long period of time (and still has frames discarded)
radenhowd u do that ?
radenthats helpful
radenfor some stuff I do
tgeekyraden: over USB, capturing 1/second, for 45 minutes
tgeekyor perhaps a little slower
tgeekyraden: you can capture as fast as 3 or 4 frames per second (choose "as fast as possible"), but be warned: on-screen text like the Measurement text items won't reliably update
radenwell thanks
radenthats at least another tool to have on hand
tgeekythen i just take all of the individual frames, use GIMP to turn them into a GIF, optimize, and wahala
gurkithe fuq
gurkii wasnt aware the rigols lan capabilities were this crappy
radengurki, Lets just say they dont have lan capabilities
radenIts more honest that way
tgeekyit's fine for control and setup and automation; but it's not useful for data capture
radenI have problems adjusting scales on channels and shit locking up at times
tgeekythere are some commands which seem to lock the scope; there are some attempts at writing a tool which will block such commands
restorerI wonder if it was the cheap bluetooth ODBII device I left plugged in that was draining my car's brattery
radenit works a lot better when its just computer nic to the rigol , and being in networking that really doesnt make no sense to me
restorerI won't fix that typo because it deserves that name
radenFor the price I cannot complain
radenif i wanted something that was of quality id buy a techtronix
tgeekyi'd buy the rhode and schwartz
gurkiraden: well i got my keysight for the price of a rigol <3
tgeekyalthough probably the keysight is still the most capable / fast scope out there
gurkiraden: some weird ebay offer id never have bought wo paypal
tgeekycan't beat their ASIC
radengurki, Wanna buy one affordably ?
gurkiraden: hm?
radenIm seriously thinking of buying a tektronix
gurkiwell. the dsox1000 series kind of is afforadable
radenI have a DS1054Z here about 1 year old barely used
electrobotRigol DS1054Z Rigol DS1054Z Digital Oscilloscopes - Bandwidth: 50 Mhz, Channels: 4 ($9990 ea @ 1k) -
gurkiraden: i alrdy got said keysight
gurkiwhy would i want that rigol
tgeekytarget practice?
gurki(said keysight being x2000 series)
gurkitgeeky: :D
tgeekythe rigol is great because it lets a *ton* of people who otherwise have no clue to the true time domain, a view into the world of electronics
DocScrutinizer05prolly unrelated, but >>Then you can use UltraSigma to collect chunks of data that are much larger. E.G., it takes about 20 seconds to pull 1 Million points across the bus in binary format, whereas it takes about 20 seconds to get 100,000 points in ASCII format.<<
gurkitgeeky: well. the game has changed imho
gurkitgeeky: i am thankful rigol made keysight produce the x1000
gurkibut im starting to repeat myself
tgeekydoes that have the ASIC?
DocScrutinizer05I have a " DS1104Z " and I wonder if electrobot kicks in
electrobotRigol DS1104Z-S PLUS Rigol DS1104Z-S Plus 100 MHz Digital Oscilloscope with 4 Channels ($9990 ea @ 1k) -
gurkitgeeky: if you could define "the asic" i might be able to give an answer
tgeekygurki: the megazoom 4?
tgeekythe same asic in the previous keysight scopes
DocScrutinizer05the pricetag seems a tad off, eh?
gurkitgeeky: datasheet states "yes it has"
gurkisoftware is pretty similar to that of the x2000 / x3000 ones anyway
tgeekygurki: yeah; imho that's the key feature that makes the keysight scopes so great; everything is fast; FFT is fast; all math is fast; waveform capture is fast
gurkiim still waiting for some firmware image of the x1000 to copy their network analyzer to my x2000
tgeekygurki: the same thing is true I think for their high end VSA and specans; all the work is done on the analog board; the CPU is not used to do anything re: analysis
gurkiwell. thats what all the brands do for their expensive scopes
tgeekythey nevertheless have really good CPUs and fast hard drives
gurkiwell. the highest-end scope i have access to has some blazingly fast mobile celeron single core
tgeekygurki: e.g. the keysight EXA and MXA and PXA devices load *all* of the software options into memory at the start; so their startup is slow; but you can do all the measurements instantly after that, and you can tab between measurements with no slowdown at all
gurkiand that doesnt mean it d be crappy *g*
tgeekylike you can look at one tab which is in specan mode, look at another tab which is in THD Mode, look at another tab which is in noise figure mode; and it will take no time to switch between them
tgeekyit's amazing
DocScrutinizer05re !"fast": in rigol I almost can *see* the slow I2C or SPI link between ASIC and MCU moaning on downloading a waveform, screenshot or whatever
tgeekyDocScrutinizer05: i don't know what is more proper or not, but i would call what the 1054z has a FPGA
tgeekyalthough eivdently it's called a "ProASIC III FPGA"
tgeekyDocScrutinizer05: the point is, unlike the keysight chip, it's not designed to be an oscilloscope chip
DocScrutinizer05the signal processing unit, as opposed to the "HID" unit
tgeekyi get it tho
tgeekyDocScrutinizer05: i feel like it's the mcu that lets things down, but i've never actually checked it out
gurkiwhy dont they just use some zynq or whatever
DocScrutinizer05tgeeky: same here
gurkishould be the cheapest way to achieve okayish perf
tgeekyDocScrutinizer05: the new siglent evidently only records e.g. 7 screen captures per second, which is not *that* much faster
tgeekythough if you basically make null requests over LXI, you can get thousands of requests and responses per second with the siglent
DocScrutinizer05haha, I bet. Strong evidence the comm between MCU and "DSP" is the bottleneck
DocScrutinizer05though the fact you need to "STOP" the DSP to get better datarates on waveform download suggests the "DSP" is also not THAT grat in rigol 1xxxZ
tgeekythe only thing i would want to add to any oscilloscope is to isolate the USB connections
DocScrutinizer05oh yeagh!
tgeekyDocScrutinizer05: yeah, as I mentioned: if you use that rigol bildsckimpe software to get screenshots as fast as possible (3 / sec or so), then it won't even update the measurements at the bottom
tgeekyand if you have FFT, it won't update that at all the whole time
tgeekyso you get a bunch of correct waveform captures but no correct measures, FFTs, or cursor information
DocScrutinizer05well, it's a 400 bucks scope after all
DocScrutinizer05for that it's pretty good
tgeekyDocScrutinizer05: it caused me to ask the guy to allow me to suggest a setting between 1 capture per second, and "as fast as possible" to retain the ability to keep those measurements correct
tgeekyno response yet, but I'll try again later
tgeekyhis software supports rigol equipment in general, so 1054z limitations are probably not at the top of his list
R0b0t1Can you replace the firmware completely?
tgeekyR0b0t1: no
tgeekyit would be wonderful for rigol to open source it, but i'm sure they won't
DocScrutinizer05wait, you're replcing rigol firmware?
tgeekyi am not
R0b0t1Whether they want you to is not generally related to whether it is possible, though it is starting to coincide more often than not.
tgeekynobody is; there is some attempt at reverse engineering, but afaik it's not possible
tgeekyR0b0t1: companies just don't understand how powerful it is to allow people to fix, enhance, repair, etc -- the software for their hardware
tgeekypeople are very motivated when they can just get things done themselves
R0b0t1I recently just got some USB HID driver thing done on Linux (fake keyboard) that took me half a day
R0b0t1I spent a month and a half on it under Windows and got nowhere
SiecjeHow can I display my heart rate on a PC?
ScottKevilltgeeky: All of that's why I'd much rather have pure sample collector, and analyse on the PC.
R0b0t1Well, sorry to interrupt, but that seemed the most useful suggestion if rigol tools don't do what you want
DocScrutinizer05tgeeky: after 'their' pimp-my-rigol stuff (pirated unlock keys), I don't see why they wouldn't want to FOSS the software
ScottKevillSiecje: Bluetooth?
tgeekyScottKevill: yeah, perhaps. You can do that, of course, if you go the PXI route. prepare to pay out the asshole for it.
DocScrutinizer05but I guess their notion differs on that
restorerSiecje: first thought in my head: do USB pulse oximeters exist?
tgeekyDocScrutinizer05: probably because it really opens up the ability to knock off the product
ScottKevilltgeeky: Yeah, the thing is, it just shouldn't need to be expensive.
R0b0t1Siecje: The sensor technique is electrocardiography
tgeekyScottKevill: PXI is low demand market, the people who buy it understand the need and will pay literally whatever
Siecjerestorer: Good idea a headset would be good.
tgeekyoften times they value the high density of measurement capability
DocScrutinizer05you think that's really a FPGA?
DocScrutinizer05a known generic one
tgeekyDocScrutinizer05: what is?
DocScrutinizer05the DSP
tgeekyin the 1054z?
ScottKevillSiecje: There are tons of Bluetooth heartrate sensors, optical and electrical.
tgeekyDocScrutinizer05: ProASIC 3 FPGA
DocScrutinizer05I'd think any knockoff had massive problems getting those chips
tgeekyDocScrutinizer05: nope, there is nothing custom in the rigol 1054z
SiecjeScottKevill: Thanks. And then get a USD bluetooth radio?
ScottKevillI have the Polar H10 heartrate chest strap. Works really well. CR2025 battery supposedly lasts 400 hours, of transmitting every heart beat.
electrobotPanasonic CR2025 Lithium Battery, 3V, Coin Cell ($0.18 ea @ 1k) -
tgeekyDocScrutinizer05: that's why it's such a big deal that rigol's next generation of scopes and specans are truly custom in-house ASICs
ScottKevillSiecje: Most laptops will already support it. Often desktop PCs do as well.
DocScrutinizer05didn't notice that big deal
ScottKevill(As will phones, of course)
tgeekyDocScrutinizer05: it's a big deal in terms of, you know, Rigol a new company making their own silicon. It's a big deal that China has a domestic source for this stuff now.
tgeekyit's not necessarily world class equipment
DocScrutinizer05tgeeky: I just missed that info, wherever it's from
DocScrutinizer05that's why I asked
ScottKevillThe optical heartrate sensors don't last as long on batteries because they're powering bright LEDs.
SiecjeScottKevill: I got one but it doesn't have bluetooth, so I have a PCBA with the wireless sensor, but I have to read the raw data stream off it.
DocScrutinizer05ScottKevill: could pulse those
Siecjea Polar chest strap
ScottKevillDocScrutinizer05: Presumably the wearable market would already be trying to maximise battery life as a feature, so I'd assume they already are. :)
DocScrutinizer05but yeah, still a energy sink
ScottKevillSiecje: Is it that 5KHz gym-link protocol?
DocScrutinizer05tgeeky: ta! :-)
SiecjeScottKevill: Yes
ScottKevillSiecje: Ahh well, more effort required then (hence this channel, I guess). Polar H7 or H10 would be simpler. :)
SiecjeScottKevill: I have this one "Polar 92053125 T31 Coded Transmitter and Belt Set
SiecjeAnd this
ScottKevillAhh yeah, I remember reading about the T31. I only bought my H10 a couple of months ago. The hardware is awesome. The software is complete crap, but fortunately it uses a Bluetooth LE standard.
SiecjeCan you replace the battery?
SiecjeWhat app do you use with it?
ScottKevillAlthough it's still reporting as full, and I must have used it for a couple of hundred continuous hours.
ScottKevillI've switched between a few, but haven't done much searching yet. App store is a mess trying to find something that isn't locking functionality behind in-app purchases. Especially in a genre such as fitness or wellness.
ScottKevillI may end up just writing my own logging app.
SiecjeHave you tried gyroscope?
ScottKevillH10 also has a mode where it can record and store on the device itself, without you needing to have another bluetooth receiver.
ScottKevillWhich makes it easier to do sleep tests.
SiecjeACTION wonders if he could sleep with chest stap on.
ScottKevillOne factor is I wanted all the raw data. ie. every R-R interval (the ms between beats).
SpeedEvilScottKevill: hardware deeply depresses me.
ScottKevillIt's fairly comfortable, so you can get used to it. Needs to be tightened for when you're on your side though.
SpeedEvilScottKevill: that is - hw limited by sw
SpeedEvilScottKevill: I'd love the above too.
ScottKevillSpeedEvil: HR sensors? Or oscilloscopes?
ScottKevillSome overlap there actually. :)
ScottKevillSpeedEvil: Yeah, it's amazing how common it is to see great hardware with shitty software.
ScottKevillFortunately, the protocol is standard here.. so it becomes easier.
SiecjeScottKevill: What is the difference between the H7 and H10?
ScottKevillOther thing that was interesting is that the strap itself with the electrodes.. where you plug/unplug the device.. the sockets are actually King Gee press-studs.
ScottKevillSo you could probably create your own ADC to plug into it, and get full heartrate waveform, rather than just peak-to-peak times.
ScottKevillSiecje: Hmm, I had some notes somewhere.
ScottKevillSiecje: H10 replaces H7, so H7 will become harder to find, but.. supposedly more comfortable strap. The record-to-device mode (no receiver needed) and download later. Strap is more grippy due to silicone blobs/dots around it.
SiecjeOkay thanks, I think I will order one.
ScottKevillDon't take my word for it though, read some reviews as well if you want. :)
tgeekyjesus this CCTV camera cable is horrible. Just one section of it (60 foot I think?) takes the rise time of a sync pulse from ~ 150ns to ~ 600ns
ScottKevillAnd it depends on what you want it for.. fitness or health.
SiecjeScottKevill: I want to put my heart rate on screen for video games
ScottKevillAhh, you're a streamer?
R0b0t1Probably should buy something that already exists and read its data
ScottKevillChest strap will be comfortable enough for that definitely, an optical wrist strap might get in the way more.
SiecjeScottKevill: Yeah no one watches though.
ScottKevillBut you probably don't care about precise accuracy.
ScottKevillSo you could probably do cheaper. My H10 cost me $110 AUD a couple of months ago, I think.
ScottKevillSome of the others don't also sample very frequently.. some every 5 minutes, some 1 minute, some 5 seconds. If you're wanting the visual effect of reactions to moments in the game, you probably want frequent samples.
ScottKevillSome sensors transmit with the ANT protocol which might be more effort to receive with a PC, I don't know.
Laggger164Anyone got any recommendations on how to make my circuits more water resistant? Specifically for components on an RC car, so high vibrations.
ScottKevillLaggger164: "Conformal coating" is the most common answer I hear.
Laggger164ScottKevill I saw that, but I don't know where to get it in my country.
Laggger164I have no idea how it translates, any other terms it could be called?
ScottKevillHmm, never looked into it myself. PCB/circuit "lacquer" is another term.
Laggger164Or something similar like nail polish? I heard about that one too
Laggger164I live in slovakia BTW
ScottKevillQuite a range of factors according to this:
Laggger164ScottKevill Oh epoxy counts too?
Laggger164Hmmm. Well there is the whole vibration aspect to it...
DocScrutinizer05Kontact / CRC?
ScottKevillNo idea.. never tried this.. just going from what I'd heard.
linextanyone set up a wired nest fire alarm?
ScottKevillSiecje: :)
Laggger164DocScrutinizer05 That's a good lead! I found a store that sells it
ScottKevillLaggger164: Just make sure it does what you want it to. They have different properties.
DocScrutinizer05check out their other stuff, they have alternatives
ScottKevillSiecje: Haha, nevermind, you're actually in those results. :P
DocScrutinizer05or what ScottKevill said :-)
Laggger164DocScrutinizer05 Well thanks for the suggestion!
restoreroh goody, at least I know the MOSFET module I put together is wired right this time
Laggger164Also DocScrutinizer05 When I click on those links, it gives a popup which states BACK and when I hit OK it goes to the home page.
Laggger164Whoever designed that webpage isn't that good at it
Laggger164DocScrutinizer05 I found it anyways, it's not your fault either way
DocScrutinizer05works for me though
ScottKevillNot uncommon, sadly.
DocScrutinizer05there's also Plastic70 (/Super) and Solisol73
Laggger164DocScrutinizer05 Also, there is something called a Contact spray in a store closer to me.
Laggger164Is that something similar?
DocScrutinizer05contact spray is for vleaning and protecting contacts, it's the opposite of what you want, basically
Laggger164OK then, thanks!
ScottKevillOr it could be glue.. eg. contact adhesive spray.
DocScrutinizer05like Kontact61 ->
Laggger164ScottKevill Wait, I have an adhesive spray
Laggger164Actually a Contact adhesive spray
Laggger164How would that help?
ScottKevillIt wouldn't.
DocScrutinizer05nevermind, unrelated
ScottKevillBy "Or it could be" I meant "Contact spray" could be for cleaning contacts, or it could be glue.
Laggger164ScottKevill Oh!
ScottKevillYou can't just use the name or title. You need to read about what it is and what it does.
DocScrutinizer05cover your PCB with Urethan71 or Plastik70(super) protect your contacts with Kontakt61
Laggger164DocScrutinizer05 Alright, will do!
DocScrutinizer05>>oxides are first dissolved using KONTAKT 60 and then rinsed with KONTAKT WL. Finally, the cleaned contact is protected by KONTAKT 61.<<
Laggger164DocScrutinizer05 I'll see if I can get my hands on some of those sprays, if not I might try nail polish.
DocScrutinizer05that's WAY too expensive and actually dangerous to the electronics
Laggger164DocScrutinizer05 Really?
Laggger164Oh... right...
ScottKevillDocScrutinizer05: I thought that was nail polish remover.
DocScrutinizer05and thinner, no?
Laggger164ScottKevill Well nail polish has to be kept liquid somehow
ScottKevillOh okay, as long as it's not a like-treats-like thing. :)
Laggger164From what I know, it is dissolved in acetone
Laggger164What if I can't get my hands on those proper sprays? Something more ghetto?
Viper-7you can get generic conformal coating sprays from any supplier with electronics stuffs
Viper-7failing that, hair spray :P
DocScrutinizer05silicone or acrylic sealing
DocScrutinizer05hair spray is not water resistant
Laggger164Hair spray? How could that be viable?
Viper-7sure is, look it up as a conformal coating
DocScrutinizer05worst case you even could use acrylic water-based paint
Viper-7does anyone know if hairspray is an acceptable substitute for commercial PCB spray laquer?
Viper-7PCB spray does not use lacquer. I suspect you're thinking of acrylics or acrylates copolymer, which is what hair spray contains. It's somewhat suitable for PCB's because it protects, but also can be dissolved off with MEK or acetone. However, hair spray does not contain any fluorescent dye, which is necessary for proper inspection of the PCB using a cheap UV flashlight.
DocScrutinizer05or PU-mounting foam - HEHE
Laggger164Well this would be pretty damn interesting:
ScottKevillViper-7: Hair spray with fluorescent dye would be interesting. :)
Laggger164Are acrylic based paints vibration resistant?
Viper-7ScottKevill: for your circuit or your hair? :P
Laggger164Or do I find out myself?
Laggger164Viper-7 Wow, fluorescent hair.
Laggger164Dayum XD
ScottKevillFor others' hair. I don't have enough left.
DocScrutinizer05ohmy, how would all those women ever get hairspray out of their hair if it wasn't water soluble? at least the one I tested as anti glare on a CRT tube was _not_ water resistant
DocScrutinizer05none of them, and I tested several
Viper-7do you have any idea how many solvents women put through their hair? :P
Laggger164Viper-7 I agree
Viper-7and anti glare? so a very thin coating on a display surface? yeah it wouldnt be
Viper-7anyway, not my concept, its a very old and common trick, do your own research if you're interested
DocScrutinizer05Laggger164: acrylic paints are usually somewhat elastic, yes
DocScrutinizer05ScottKevill: Hair spray with fluorescent dye exists
DocScrutinizer05Laggger164: just make sure the acrylic paint is water based
Laggger164DocScrutinizer05 Welp, then it seems to be settled. Unless I get my hands on proper sprays, I'll get the acrylic paint!
DocScrutinizer05you could even use wall paint for outdoor (washable)
ScottKevillDocScrutinizer05: I'd believe it. :)
DocScrutinizer05(wall paint) "dispersion"
DocScrutinizer05aka emulsion paint
DocScrutinizer05let it dry thoroughly!
DocScrutinizer05test for electrical properties before you go primetime
DocScrutinizer05paint isn't usually known for being conductive when dry, but... you know, better safe than sorry
flybackACTION plays while waiting for the lights to blink again
electrobotflyback just linked to OneRepublic - All The Right Moves - YouTube
kmc"Until modern times, we used to spend the majority of our days outdoors, soaking up negative electrons from the Earth. In today’s world, exposure to EMF’s, Wi-Fi, mobile phone waves, and other forms of technology have increased our positive electrons, which have the opposite effect of grounding."
DocScrutinizer05Laggger164: (find a store) in most parts of the globe Kontact sprays are sold under the CRC trademark
tawrViper-7: pretty sure hair sprays are a PVA
ScottKevilltawr: As in, the wood glue?
Loshkikmc: this is why everybody's high. It's not MJ after all.
vanunamedhi Viper-7 how are you
DocScrutinizer05positive electrons, mmmkay
Bird|otherboxkmc: lulzwut
DocScrutinizer05particularly funny: positive electrons are negative, while negative electrons are good
vanunamedhi DocScrutinizer05 how are u
DocScrutinizer05grumpy as usual
vanunamedhow come
vanunamedtoday I painted the bedroom, ceiling white walls yellow
vanunamedall in a few hours
vanunamedi had to waste one full hour to go and talk to the seller of my house as he knows my "neighbour" and that person sells the adjacent land
dokmaJust went to my buddy's. His stove blew a fuse. I measured all over the thing and couldn't find any shorts. Yet when we pluged it the fuse blew again... twice.
vanunamedon the bright side he gifted me eggs.
tawrScottKevill: yup
hitekcheck the elements
dokmahitek: all give at least 50 ohms
hitekI blew one up in my oven the other day, big chunk out of it and white shrapnel all over the oven wall in that spot lol
hitekheard a big arc like pop, caught on fire and glowed white after I blew that fire out
ScottKevilltawr: Ha, interesting.
hitekwas pretty cool
tawrhitek: i've had a nema 14-50 explode in my hand before
hitekwell the connections to the elements can give problems too dokma
hitekcheck that they are all clean and making good contact
tawrhad a piece of equipment shipped in and the vibrations worked loose the wire clamp inside the plug, so it moved over and bridged to neutral
Bird|otherboxtawr: how'd that happen? :o
Bird|otherboxoh, xD
tawrwent to plug it in, boom. in my fucking hand. i guess the cord wasnt wrapped up right and fell flat onto the pallet or truck bed or something so it was under a lot of vibration
Viper-7tawr: shocking.
tawrthe worst part, Bird|otherbox, i was leaned over a cabinet to reach the receptacle, and as im about to put it in
tawrmy stepdad clapped fucking loud to scare me
tawrwe laugh, i go to plug it in
Bird|otherboxand BANG
ScottKevillThat's a horror movie cliché.
tawrand it actually explodes in my hand. i stood there for a second going 'how the fuck did he manage to do that?' before it clicked it ACTUALLY happened
tawryup ScottKevill
ScottKevillOr trope.
tawri'm positive it's on tvtropes as subverted freakout
tawror similar
ScottKevillSomething scary, turns out to be a cute kitten, breathe sigh of relief, then wham.
tawryeah, i got lucky the way i was holding the plug in my hand
Bird|otherboxScottKevill, L100 Pikachu
tawrmost of the gasses and plasma vented from the split line on the plug, and it cracked/vented towards the wall and not my palm, so i missed 95% of the plasma/gas hitting my hand
ScottKevillAlways vent it toward the wall rather than your palm.
tawrbut i'll admit it felt like my hand got hit with a hammer for a day, and i had light sunburn (well it felt like it, not sure if it was actual uv sunburn, thermal burns, or combination). i'm just happy at that point in my life i wore safety glasses ALL THE TIME
tawrholy shit ScottKevill
tawrthey found a bacteria they've never seen before living in hairspray cans. it can grow up to 37C temps, look at that wiki link and at the bottom related pages is a bacteria page, go to it, then sources click the first where they test it
ScottKevillAnd right before that "it is used to kill mold and bacteria"
ScottKevillOr maybe that's why.
tawrno no
tawris a chemical preservative, i'm talking about the bacteria under related
tawrit can live in cans of hairspray regardless
ScottKevillYeah, I know, I was wondering if that was the intent of the formaldehyde here.
LoshkiMicrobacterium hatanonis ... was discovered living in hair spray. It must be Jewish.
ScottKevillSince it says " Because it is used to kill mold and bacteria as well, it is in hairspray to ward off potential contaminants. "
r0n0xheyo freebs
r0n0xi did nothing over the weekend!
r0n0xi have an affliction, yay!
restorerwhat would you have done if you didn't do nothing?
Xionabado i need a pull up resistor for this? i mean, things got messy
Xionabame touching it makes it work
Shikadisounds kinky
Viper-7breadboard? im guessing so :P
Xionababreadboard one worked before i solder it onto pcb
Xionaba10 uf and 104 ceramic
Viper-7then you dun fuked somethin up son
Xionabaawwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww :(
Viper-76 packages from china just arrived
Viper-7all crap :P
matlandlost the alixpress lotery?
Viper-7spade crimps, some mini wago connector blocks, a bunch more mp1584 modules, spare orange pi power cable, 10W led "panel", another spi touch lcd, and 3x stepper motors
matlandthey have copycat wago?
Viper-7all stuff i want, but nothing i can really play with
Viper-7yep, nice and cheap too
Viper-7seems decent
SpeedEvilYesterday I got pogo pins, magnetic usb leads. Today from amazon, a cheap digital dial indicator. And a wiggler.
electrobotViper-7 just linked to ((10pcs/lot) WAGO 222 412 PCT 212 PCT212 Universal Compact Wire Wiring Connector 2 pin Conductor Terminal Block Lever 0.08 2.5mm2-in Connectors from Home Improvement on | Alibaba Group)
DocScrutinizer05Viper-7: seems you're right hairspray is *supposed* to be water resistant. So I wonder why it isn't, for me at least
matlandACTION gets to order chinkwago clips
SpeedEvil Plus I found on amazon
Viper-7SpeedEvil: a wiggler? heh
DocScrutinizer05SpeedEvil: what's a wiggler?
SpeedEvilIt is a device to find the center of holes in a mill or drill press
Viper-7DocScrutinizer05: you need to lay it on pretty thick, i'd guess you're not?
matlandi have a few boxes of the legit wago clips because luck but they are %%
matlandi mean $$
DocScrutinizer05Viper-7: nope, didn't
matlandcan't wait until i get the lcd driver board i ordered
matland20 inch touchscreen gonna be amazing