siXy - MerlinTHP hurry the hell up damnit.
siXythough honestly I'm not even sure my code builds on arm.
Serdargood afternoon
MerlinTHPsiXy: yeah, we're already talking to another firm doing a similar thing
Serdaris anybody familar with software collections? I am missing php55 acpu and freetype modules, how can I find in which existing package they are included?
siXycross-compiling go code is kinda shitty atm, so I can't actually test to see if it works without a real arm box (or a qemu thing I guess)
MerlinTHPNo, same guys
MerlinTHPDiffernet domain.
MerlinTHPConfused me.
AndyCaphm, hp gives access to moonshot for qualified developers?
AndyCapfor two weeks, not that much time.
Evolutionor at least good morning #rhel
Ussatfuk you, its not good by any means....
Ussatand ya morning.
mjau^does rhel6 use upstart?
Evolutionit's upstart, but... made to act like sysv
siXymjau^: but in a slighlty wierd way. generally it's best to treat it more or less as sysv
mjau^anyone in here run rsa access manager? or rather, know of a good alternative to it?
mjau^(authorization for web and jboss apps)
mjau^thing is, asshats at rsa won't release a rhel 7 agent..
JHogarthand its very ancient upstart so not everything that upbuntu supports for an upstart service file will work in /etc/init ... and the tools like service will have no idea bout it (you nee dto use initctl for it) so people will hate you for the 'hidden' service
MerlinTHPIs that the current name for the RSA SecurID server software?
mjau^MerlinTHP: hmm dunno, but I'd guess no
siXymjau^: er, what are you doing with rsa agents?
siXywas openssl too secure?
MerlinTHPThe data sheet really does suggest that it is.
JHogarthOTP thing perhaps?
MerlinTHPYes, SecurID
mjau^MerlinTHP: this is a pretty simple product (on paper at least); on your web server, you have the agent, which talks with a directory server which contains access levels for certain users and groups in the webapp in question
MerlinTHPMaybe it's something that integrates with the SecurID server.
JHogarththey really should have a sysvinit service script for it... if they have an upstart script for it
MerlinTHPNo, then
MerlinTHPNo idea, sorry.
JHogarthit'd be v weir dto support upstart but not the lowest common denominator of init systems
mjau^so the agent takes the SSL client DN, sends it to the server, which says yay or nay depending on what the user wants to do
MerlinTHPRight, not related to SecurID
siXyyou do the wierdest things.
JHogarthmjau^: i'd strongly suggest you take a step back and theb state what it is you are trying to achieve - rather than semi-randomly ask about capabilities of rhel
mjau^JHogarth: eh, it's more of a translation thing
mjau^JHogarth: I'd explain in swedish but.. =)
JHogarthgoogle translate woudl probably get you a solution to your issue quicker still than asking random capabilities rather than stating your actual requirements ;)
JHogartheg "I need a service that restarts" rather than "does upstart work on rhel"
mjau^here we go:
mjau^"RSA Access Manager enables organizations to centrally manage authentication and authorization policies for a large number of users, online web portals, and application resources. Access Manager empowers enterprises to deploy applications more quickly while providing seamless user access with single sign-on (SSO)."
JHogarthok that's marketing blurb - but doesn't state your requirement
mjau^JHogarth: ah, the rhel 6 question about upstart was about something completely different
siXyI'm really struggling to understand what this does that apache doesn't do out of the box
mjau^basically just me wondering
siXyother than allow rsa to charge you lots of cash, that is early for that
JHogarthah the context of the question lead to confusion
mjau^siXy: hmm.. apache can handle authorization?
mjau^JHogarth: yeah, in retrospective I can really understand that =)
siXykerberos or just plain ldap
mjau^siXy: huh, ok =)
siXyor all sorts of other things. it's pluggable
mjau^BenA: wow.. just wow.
gaurdrog'morning #rhel
Serdaris there a special channel for software collection?
eljraxSerdar: I've seen questions about it answered here
SerdarI am using Version 1.2 to install php55 on my systems. but I am missing FreeType and acpu
Serdareljrax, and I need them :(
eljraxI didn't say *I* could help you :) Never used them, personally. But I'm sure someone will come along who has
Serdareljrax, HEEELP :P
Serdarnevermind, there must be a way
SerdarI need to find this way
Serdareljrax, normally they are needed modules, I am really surprised that APC does not exist anymore
XenophonFhey all
XenophonFi'm trying to install salt on rhel 7.1, but i'm getting an error about python-jinja2 being missing
XenophonFi have epel enabled, as well as both saltstack COPRs (saltstack-salt-epel-7 and saltstack-zeromq4-epel)
XenophonFi have another centos 7 install, and python-jinja2 is included in the base repo
XenophonFwhat am i missing?
MerlinTHPBut you're using RHEL, which has a different repo setup to centos.
MerlinTHPI imagine you're missing the rhel -optional repo
eljraxXenophonF: You're missing python-jinja2
MerlinTHPACTION smirks.
siXyI love our company. So many smart people here. IT just had to send out a company mail asking people to stop punching holes in their building access cards, as this will stop them from working.
MerlinTHPACTION grins
XenophonFok did a little googling, i assume that i have to enable the optional channel somehow?
UssatsiXy, ...
MerlinTHPXenophonF: that's what I said.
MerlinTHPsubscription-manager repos --enable=....
UssatsiXy, funny that, we had to send out that email about a month ago...
XenophonFMerlinTHP: danke
eljraxWhy do people do that? To fit them on lanyards or what ?
Ussateljrax, yup
eljraxWe just get sheaths (sp?)
MerlinTHPCompany that doesn't give out card holders
Ussatdoesnt matter HR supplies holders WITH lanyards
eljraxCard holder.. better word :)
XenophonFah, i see
XenophonFi installed rhel 7.1 into an ec2 instance from the ami
XenophonFso i'm going to have to add this to my company's rhn subscription
XenophonFalright - time to wake up the conus server team lead ;)
siXythe lanyards are a bit stupid anyway - the cards work fine if you leave them in your wallet/purse/etc
UssatsiXy, here, we cant do that, they must be visible
StuartMIsame here
MerlinTHPgcj failing?
siXyI dunno why we even have photos on our cards really - not like anyone checks
siXyprobably because there's really no point - I don't think our staff are any more reliable than random people off the street
MerlinTHPACTION sniggers.
MerlinTHPPHP devs \o/
roscoIt seems that cgroups started to be supported only in rhel6, right? Is there something similar for rhel5? I need to lock some users in a pool so they don't eat all my resources.
siXyrosco: limits.
siXyrosco: /etc/security/limits*
Evolutionwhy does OSX look like willy wonka was on drugs?
UssatEvolution, huh ?
MerlinTHPAll the little midget gem icons?
Ussatmeh, I hide the big deal
siXyEvolution: move the dock to the left hand side and make it auto-hide
siXyanything else is plainly foolish
MerlinTHPI think I taught him that.
siXyyeah :)
MerlinTHPWe're the smart party!
siXyEvolution: thou must also installeth iterm2, for it beith the one true terminal emulator for the blessed OS.
Ussat++ for iterm2
MerlinTHPChrome, not Safari.
rigeld2my wife doesn't hide the dock and it's on the bottom. I cry every tim eI have to use her laptop
siXythe true faithful also install sublime text, but it can sometimes take time to reach this level of enlightenment.
MerlinTHPI will admit I've never moved on past TextWrangler.
MerlinTHPMainly because ST costs money.
siXyyeah. I got it through work. Though honestly having used it a bit, I'd happily pay for it now.
MerlinTHPOTOH, I paid my own money for Omnigraffle Pro.
MerlinTHPWhich costs even more.
EvolutionsiXy: this is bone stock 10.10 with boot2docker for testing
Evolutionbut the 'fullscreen' look, the icons, etc.
Evolutionit's like candyland on acid
XenophonFthe one true editor for Mac OS X is clearly Emacs
EvolutionXenophonF: go sit in the corner and think about what you just said
Evolutionnext you'll tell me to install opera for web browsing
XenophonFopera? god forbid! firefox, clearly
MerlinTHP"You are a sad, strange little man, and I pity you"
lupin_the_3rdEmacs harmed my children, I will not allow it my home.
XenophonFalso, the dock is supposed to go on the right, like in NEXTSTEP
SteelpanHello, who can tell me how I can keep a mirror for RHEL[567] or at least 6 and 7 without using Satellite?
EvolutionSteelpan: pulp or reposync + scripting
rigeld2MerlinTHP: "You're a sad, strange little man, and you have my pity."
rigeld2MerlinTHP: Also, I'm angry at Luther now.
MerlinTHPSorry, yes.
Evolutionyou know... the more stuff I do, the more I'm getting pulled into trello
BenAReal heros never moved past 10.2.
Evolutionand I DO NOT LIKE IT
SteelpanYeah I'm working on reposync and want to migrate to Pulp, so Pulp can do different releases from say a RHEL7 Pulp server?
roscosiXy: thanks. but it seems limits.conf won't help in my case. Wish I could use cgroups instead...
EvolutionSteelpan: hmm? clarify that please
siXyrosco: maybe if you described what you were actually trying to do a bit more then?
siXyrosco: because what you said you wanted to do, limits.conf will do.
SteelpanI want to mirror RHEL[567] from a RHEL7 based Pulp server and want to know if that's possible
EvolutionSteelpan: yep. it works fine.
SteelpanGreat, thank you Evolution!
roscoI wish to gove a pool of memory to specific users. limits.conf on work on processes, not users. A user could multiply processes and exceed the limits defined in my pool.
Zathruscgroup ?
nirikrosco: make them each a vm with that amount of memory? ;)
nirikACTION runs
Evolutionnirik: clearly this is a job for docker!
rigeld2Zathrus: rhel5
EvolutionACTION flees in the opposite direction
Zathrusoh... upgrade, then cgroup :)
rigeld2Zathrus: haha
nirikdocker docker docker
ZathrusACTION obviously didn't read the line where rosco even said "Wish I could use cgroups instead...."
NameWitheldrigeld2: TIL that ".secure" is about to becom e a real TLD. Haw haw.
siXyrosco: yeah, you need to upgrade to a less ancient os ;)
rosconirik: docker is clearly the tool I need, but I have so many design tools to maintain that it's a full time job to create and test all images. I wish that vendors upgraded their tools to support at least rhel6.
siXyyour vendors don't support rhel 6?
siXyyou have some crappy vendors.
nirikthe rhel5 constraint you have really limits things I'm afraid.
Zathrusrosco: so, what are you going to do in 2 years when RHEL5 is EOL? Note that "pay RH more money" is valid... but perhaps not the best thing for your business.
rigeld2NameWitheld: winning?
NameWitheldAll day every day.
roscoZathrus: I expect Synopsys and Cadence to have fully migrated by then, but I'm afraid that sometimes vendors are as conservative on linux that they are on windows, and maybe expect RH to extend support longer and longer.
rigeld2rosco: I can all but guarantee rhel5 support isn't going to be extended again
Zathrusrosco: oh, we will support as long as customers want to pay us now. But that level of support is, honestly, pretty low. Only critical fixes. Pretty much nothing else. Just like RHEL4 now.
roscoZathrus: I hate to have to ssh to a rhel5 machine when all my other stations are rhel7. It's like relearning an old OS with old commands.
Zathrusrosco: the obvious question is... are those vendors upgrading their tools to work on 7, or only on 6? Does management know of this issue and that it's problematic? Is looking for an alternate vendor a possibility?
roscoI've already played with docker and X11 applications. It's a bit messy, you have to remount 50% of the host in the container, but it works sometimes.
eljraxThere's also the X11 forwarding approach
roscoZathrus: they are upgrading some tools, I guess it means they test their tool on rhel6 and if it works then they mention it as "supported" in the compatibility table.
Zathrusrosco: that actually raises a good question -- have you considered putting those apps into an EL5 docker container and running them on 7? Perhaps not viable if you need uses to login.
roscoZathrus: I did, it works for some of the tools, I was happy. But it's so much work, some tools call other tools, it's really a full time job to dockerize all of this. But it would be a killer solution. Add to this our "non-standard" LDAP server which relies on nslcd, our automounted homedirs. I's huge.
Zathrusalways fun
billingswow. the level of hate in #systemd is high
ZathrusI'd expect that to be a warzone
JHogarthZathrus: even now before el5eol the number of el5 updates are low given just pure security fixes in general ...
JHogarthbillings: oh?
billingsthere appears to be someone going in every couple hours and asking something almost on-topic, then start swearing, make claims of the sexual preference of people int he channel, and claim to switch to OpenBSD or FreeBSD
ZathrusJHogarth: because only severe/critical are being fixed now
JHogarthZathrus: yeah indeed ... anything that is moderate is now essentially "update to el6 already" heh
JHogarthbillings: ... is debian 8 out now or something ?
NameWitheldCan you use the rhn-upgrade package in RHN now to go from 5.4 to 5.6 ? Or is it only to 5.7?
billingsoh, maybe.
JHogarthit only seems teh debian crowd taht gets that riled up heh
ZathrusACTION tries joining a WebEx conference on his RHEL7.1 laptop. This should be fun.
JHogarthnope jessie still not out yet
billingsbluejeans works fine in RHEL7
Zathrusbillings: I know this. I didn't setup the call. We usually do demos via bluejeans.
billingsoh yeah, you said 'webex'. For some reason I translated that into the generic 'web-based conference call' isntead of a particular product
Zathrusbillings: heh :)
NameWitheld"Thanks for coming out today, we'll get this demo started just as soon as I get into some bluejeans.. *Ziiiiip*"
JHogarthbillings: a bunch of peeps got their knckers in a a twist a couple of days back from that early april fools leak (systemd importing linux kernel to tree and forking it)
billingsoh yeah
billingsJHogarth: I saw that too
billingsIvan Gotyaovich
UssatJHogarth, because, TBH it sounds like something systemD would do :)
Zathrusbillings: the one thing I really, really dislike about BlueJeans is that you cannot easily abbreviate it....
JHogarth"it's not april 1st yet ... it must be real!" ... :/
NameWitheldZathrus: BJeans?
ZathrusNameWitheld: not helping.
billingsand the funny thing about OpenBSD, which someone just mentioned in #systemd, is that the entire OS, init system and kernel are in the same source tree
NameWitheldZathrus: BlueJ?
ZathrusNameWitheld: I'd be amazed if that wasn't already a euphamism.
NameWitheldAs would I.
billingsfire up
NameWitheldZathrus: The mistake you're making here is assuming I might be trying to help....
ZathrusNameWitheld: true dat
jnixthat sounds like some weed strain
trae32566[w]jnix: yes it does. Blue dream <3
redragon_howdy #rhel
NameWitheldHowdy redragon!
balloonfacebillings: I think that's flying over my head, why is the init system and kernel being in the same tree funny?
Zathrusballoonface: one of the complaints about systemd is that the codebase is so large / infiltrates so many other things.
balloonfaceah ok
redragon_it wants to be the google of linux and take over everything
balloonfacehow is that a problem? Can't you replace parts of it piecemeal if you have something that legitimately better?
balloonfacethat is* legitimately better
redragon_with complexity comes vulnerability
redragon_maintenance overhead, ect
billingsbasically, that's been the philosophy for most of Linux's life
redragon_its far easier to maintain 100 lines of code than 10,000
balloonfacedoesn't having a single project reduce complexity? rather than having potentially redundant work I mean
billingsand what you end up with is a bunch of init systems that nominally are the same but use vastly different code and are laughably complex using supposedly simple tools
Ussatwas a good band
NameWitheldUssat: Was? They jumped the shark?
redragon_Ussat, i agree, but also agree with keep it stupid simple :)
billingsKISS is still around, isn't it?
NameWitheldbillings: Yeah.
NameWitheldThey did a show here (-ish) last year.
UssatYea they are, sorta....
MerlinTHPWell, Gene Simmons is in his mid-60s, but yeah.
billingswith the face paint and wigs its hard to even know
billingsits not like the Stones where you're worried someone is going to break a hip
Ussatbillings, HAHAH IU wanna go see them in Milwaukee to see just that
MerlinTHPACTION grins.
UssatThey will be on stage with their oxygen tanks and walkers
MerlinTHPAt least the Stones don't still have Bill Wyman and his metal detector.
ChibaPetThe Strolling Bones.
BenAIt's a sad day. We just deracked our last SPARC/Solaris box.
trae32566[w]s/sad/fucking awesome/
balloonfaceyou forgot the global tag
balloonfacebecause it is without exception
trae32566[w]this is true
StabbyMcTell me again how Kimber needs to stay in New York City?
balloonfacetrae32566[w]: I'm never happy
redragon_hiyas stabby
StabbyMcHey redragon_ .
redragon_i was by cabelas last night
redragon_amazing where you end up when you jump in the car and drive heh
StabbyMcApparently they are now carrying AR pistols.
redragon_i have 1 ar pistol
shortbus-StabbyMc: huh? there's no way that's sold in nyc
ChibaPetLet me interpret: "It's a sad day. We just unracked our last box that had a consistent firmware and flawless, integrated ability to do diskless boots, as well as our last sane init environment and container system." There, more of a sad day for real. :)
StabbyMcshortbus-: the manufacturer is based in NYC.
StabbyMcChibaPet: oh you decommed your last sun box? Congrats! ;-)
balloonfaceChibaPet: diskless boots, you mean boot from SAN?
jnixBenA: i'm jealous
ChibaPetballoonface: That's one option, sure.
shortbus-StabbyMc: contact info is MT and NY, up-state a bit
balloonfacewhat are the other options? (legitimately curious)
ChibaPetBoot from... anything? RARP, tftp, boot from anything your kernel decides seems funky?
ChibaPetPardon the anglolinguicide.
StabbyMcshortbus-: Maybe I'm thinking Yonkers?
ChibaPetballoonface: The PC world has settled on a variety of mess to replace this, but it's nothing nearly as elegant as what Sun has.
StabbyMcChibaPet: Sadly SUN replaced their own stuff with the "PC Mess" as you call it, so ...
BenAIs it 'blackboard' that people have screaming dreams about?
rigeld2BenA: Yes
ChibaPetStabbyMc: Did they? The last Sun hardware I had was UltraSPARC.
balloonfaceChibaPet: I don't know if I'd call Sun eloquent, symlinks to system binaries underneath /etc seems kind of random to me
rigeld2BenA: to clarify, the learning management piece. Blackboard does some other stuff (remote collaboration) that doesn't suck as bad
ChibaPetballoonface: I'm not arguing in favour of everything they do - I think I hit most of the strong points though. :)
ChibaPetAlright, many fine errands.
StabbyMcChibaPet: most of the "Ultra" series went to AMD processors on something like Gigabyte mobos.
LzrdKingthis is going to sound dumb, but i've never had to call redhat before; what happens when you call 1-888-REDHAT-1? apparently, its only a "ten-minute process" to get some certificates for satellite renewed, but the only way to do it is to call
ChibaPetStabbyMc: Why do you have to hurt me this way?
rigeld2LzrdKing: There's a self-service certificate method
trae32566[w]LzrdKing: call and find out. I'd assume you get a menu of some sort.
ChibaPetLzrdKing: You should have a contact for the person who handles your contract. You shouldn't need a generic number.
StabbyMcChibaPet: the large chassis stuff was more consistent, but the 20s and the like were essentially sun branded PC garbage.
rigeld2LzrdKing: So you don't have to call. Unless you're saying you have to renew your contract as well as your satellite cert.
NameWitheldbemis: 16:30.04 Ussat:
LzrdKingrigeld2: no, contract was renewed already
UssatNameWitheld, yea well, I thought about posting it first :)
LzrdKingrigeld2: awesome, i'll give it a shot
NameWitheldUssat: No, I was tagging him, because the seat has his name.
ChibaPetBBL, many fine errands to do.
NameWitheldUssat: Taht's my server local time right nowish.
redragon_hiya rigeld2
StabbyMcWant so, so bad...
shortbus-StabbyMc: yea, it's just a bit north of the yonkers / white plains area
StabbyMcshortbus-: apparently the hipsters have made it there, and are RUINING a perfectly good gun studio! ;-)
stpierreUssat: oh my heavens that's wonderful
gaurdroyay diesel sweeties!
stpierregaurdro: do you do the fixie thing? it looks like i'm gonna need to replace the rear wheel on my (1983) road bike, and i'm considering if i should just make it a fixie -- it's only used for transportation -- or if i should try to upgrade it to modern components and crap.
Ussatstpierre, talk about scaring the shit out of someone...
gaurdroI've ridden a fixie a few times. It's great if you have or want thighs like trees or live in a very flat place.
stpierregaurdro: hi, welcome to Nebraska.
shortbus-StabbyMc: is it really run by hipsters? that area is nothing like NYC
Ussatwtf is a fixie ?
EvolutionUssat: hipster bike.
Evolutionfixed gear
gaurdrostpierre, just don't go brakeless. My personal preference would be a single speed over a fixie.
gaurdroACTION likes coasting
gaurdroEvolution, not quite hipster enough nowadays. need a polo bike for that.
stpierresince i have to replace the whole rear wheel i was planning to do a flip-flop hub
rigeld2brakeless is a thing? O.o
stpierregaurdro: or a unicycle
MerlinTHPSodding hipsters.
gaurdrorigeld2, yes, a very stupid thing, especially in places with actual terrain.
stpierrerigeld2: a fixie is like the bike you had when you were 10 -- pedal backwards to stop. most (?) people keep a front brake on them, which gives better braking power and doesn't tear through your rear tire every weeks
StabbyMcshortbus-: did you see the gun they made?
StabbyMcshortbus-: I think that should answer your question about hipster or not.
shortbus-rigeld2: they're track bikes, if the rear wheel turns, the peddles turn. there's no freewheel or gearing to coast.
StabbyMcshortbus-: it could be confused with an updated 'megatron'.
shortbus-rigeld2: they were made for racing on closed, smooth tracks. and some hipster a while back thought 'it'd be cool to ride this thing in traffic', and now it's a thing
ChibaPetI've got a single-gear bike. Never heard of it referred to as a 'fixie'. Seems silly. I think they're generally referred to as cruisers.
shortbus-ChibaPet: a fixie has no freewheel.
ChibaPetYeah, I just read that, and mine can freewheel.
ChibaPetSomething different.
shortbus-the gears are 'fixed' to the axel, hence the tearm
ChibaPetI assumed "fixed ratio". Gears fixed to axle seems painful.
shortbus-i've ridden one, and fuck that.
jnixi hate dbas
jnix $notoracle is causing the system to be slow
jnixno, it's most definitely oracle
jnixtoday it's goferd
gaurdroChibaPet, the idea is less maintenance, and if where you're riding is flat you don't need gears either. some make an argument that it makes you feel more connected to the bike, but I think that's bs.
stpierreshortbus-: what didn't you like? the lack of coasting, or the lack of gears for the hills?
jnixlast time it was puppet
ChibaPetGods, I can feel my thigh muscles burning just thinking about a fixie.
stpierreyeah, i live in freaking Nebraska. my road bike has 12 gears, of which I use about three or four regularly
stpierreso downgrading from three to one really isn't that bad
ChibaPetI can see less maintenance being good, but... it's not all that much maintenance, from my perspective.
Ussat some make an argument that it makes you feel more connected to the bike.. WTF ?? in some metaphysical way.....ffs
stpierreand it's a decent way to rescue an ancient bike from the scrapheap (or from $350 of new components)
siXyyou lose a bunch of weight going down to singlespeed
ChibaPetBut I'm comparing my cruiser to it, not a multi-gear tangle.
siXyplus less chain resistance
siXyreally good for commuting if it's flat enough - there's very little that can really go wrong
stpierreand in most cases it's not just any "multi-gear tangle", it's a multi-gear tangle of 30-year-old components
ChibaPetLess weight - my cruiser is a tank. :P
stpierresiXy: do you ride a fixie? (i promise not to judge, i have a beard and drink craft beer and wear thermal shirts under plaid)
gaurdrothe less maintenance is definitely a thing. I recently had to replace my cassette after I somehow picked up a couple street cleaner brush teeth.
siXyhaha no, there's hills where I live
stpierregaurdro: eek
siXybut I would if I lived in central london
stpierrei need to replace my cassette, too, which also factors into this.
stpierrebut mine is just fucking ancient
siXya friend of mine is really keen on his. He ends up riding it more than his uber-expensive bmc thing
stpierrei probably need to calculate my current gear ratios and see if i can get a gear ratio that roughly resembles something I currently ride in most of the time
gaurdroACTION contemplates building a polo bike. 
Ussatpolo bike ?
stpierrea bunch of the rear wheels i've looked at have like 14-tooth cogs, which is just fucking nuts
gaurdroUssat, bike polo is a sport. there's a pretty big contingent around here.
stpierregaurdro: my dad played polo when i was a kid -- back then you just swapped the brake levers on a mountain bike, though :)
Evolutionfound a picture of stpierre proudly displaying his bike ->
stpierreEvolution: dude has no beard, wtf
gaurdroEvolution, penny farthings are fucking scary to ride.
siXystpierre: can't you just get the shop to build you a wheel on a hub that allows you to change the cog?
BenAWe should all switch to shaft-drive bikes.
Evolutionstpierre: hmm, point
BenAThey're the future.
siXycogs are not expensive - you can get a bunch of em, and switch until you find the one you want
Evolutionstpierre: dem pants do
stpierresiXy: i could, but then i have to pay money. i figure i can buy a wheel with a cog that's roughly what i think i might want, and go from there
BenAOne advantage of single-speeds is you can get a much stronger chain.
siXyaround here, getting a shop to build a wheel isn't really that different to buying a wheel
BenAFar less stretch over time.
gaurdroBenA, compared to a 3speed chain there's not much difference. definitely compared to my 9speed chain though.
stpierresiXy: interesting
gaurdrostpierre, my bikes are not even suitable for that. plus they're all big heavy beasts of bikes.
Evolutionstpierre: your interest in this criminal activity is amusing to me
Evolutionsorry, *borderline* criminal activity
stpierregaurdro: i'm kinda surprised at the number of curved forks i'm seeing on polo bikes in a google image search. do most folks start with a road frame?
gaurdrostpierre, yes. the big thing lately has been disc brakes, and building guards for them so people don't lose fingers.
BenAHow would you lose fingers in disc brakes?
MerlinTHPDon't they tend to have big holes in?
BenAKeep your bloody hands away from them!
MerlinTHPHence the guard!
gaurdroBenA, hard to do when you fall over while playing sometimes.
LzrdKingregwell, that SHOULD have been easy enough, except the subscription only allows 1 eahc of a number of different entitlements and we are using far more than that
LzrdKingrigeld2: ^
LzrdKing"...You need to free 926 entitlements to match the new certificate."
LzrdKingsomeone dropped a big ball somewhere
Evolutionit's only ~1000 entitlements
Evolutionwhat's the worst that could happen
LzrdKingEvolution: the problem is that "There are 927 entitlements used by systems in the base (id 1) organization."
LzrdKingso we're using ~1000 and we renewed only ONE?
LzrdKingthats for both enterprise_entitled and provisioning_entitled entitlements. there are other entitlements that we are using 93 of, or 50 of, that we are now only entitled 1 of
gaurdroit within a few orders of magnitude, good enough for astrophysicists!
LzrdKingit all went to 1 of everything
ashpmorning guys
LzrdKingi htink the servers stop working monday
ChibaPetLzrdKing: They screwed us too with their licensing change.
ChibaPetLzrdKing: Your servers shouldn't stop working, but they'll stop updating.
LzrdKingChibaPet: i don't know WHO screwed up; we
LzrdKingwe're trying to reduce our costs, so it could have been someone here who said "just one of everything" not realizing what that actually meant
ChibaPetLzrdKing: Red Hat, no? They changed virtual server count entitlements. Last renewal we had to double our license count under the new rules.
LzrdKingwe have two satellite servers, so maybe they thought we could just work with one, and that meant one entitlement, not one subscription
NameWitheldMorning ashp
ChibaPetLzrdKing: If your shop has a consistent infrastructure, you can under some circumstances save a bunch by licensing all the cores on a collection of clusters of virtual servers.
ChibaPetLzrdKing: Ah, I don't have Satellite, so you're doubtless seeing something related-but-different.
LzrdKingChibaPet: yeah, i don't know how the licensing works, i've never had to deal with it before
redragon_someone say satellite?
ChibaPetredragon_: Maybe. Who's asking?
LzrdKingi did, we've lost all our entitlements
LzrdKingbut i don't think it's my fault
redragon_ChibaPet, i'm a satellite person so I do things like that when ppl say satellite
ChibaPetLzrdKing: I don't deal with our salesperson any more because I've lost all respect for him as a person. Now beancounters run interference.
ChibaPetredragon_: Communications satellite, or software?
LzrdKingChibaPet: i emailed our sales rep yesterday asking how to renew it and he just told me to call the tolfree redhat number; useless
ChibaPetMaybe you can help LzrdKing understand whatever the current licensing is. I'm not sufficiently familiar with it.
LzrdKinghe replied fast though
LzrdKinggive me a few minutes, i need to step away
ChibaPetLzrdKing: I hope he can work it out for you. And then, you're well advised to find a beancounter to take over that function for you, for your own sanity.
redragon_LzrdKing, typically when you see a shift like that a contract expired
redragon_i just went through similar stuff, contract expires (cert does too) and new cert doesn't come out like old cert
shortbus-stpierre: the lack of coasting and the lack of brakes
stpierrepfft, brakes. i ride my bike to go fast, not to go slow! >_>
shortbus-you don't ride down hills
shortbus-or in traffic
shortbus-you can't, you're in nebraska, neither exist there
Evolutionshortbus-: oh he found traffic
Evolutionthen he found out riding his bike violates several laws
Evolutionunless he just enjoys walking beside it
rigeld2after he got un over
shortbus-i didn't hear about that
Evolutionrigeld2: fair to say he found traffic *during* the running over.
stpierreyeah, got hit last week, then got a ticket
shortbus-nice. what was the ticket for?
shortbus-you need to have a bell on your bike in NYC, which no one does, and cops love giving tickets for after you get hit by a car
redragon_rigeld2, un run over? heh
stpierre"improper crossing" or something like that. basically nebraska's laws regarding places where vehicles and non-vehicles meet are a giant cesspool of crazy
Evolutionstpierre: put motor on bike. now you're a vehicle. problem solved
stpierreso a bike in, for instance, and at-grade bike trail crossing, has to yield to positively everyone and everything, even douchey jimmy john's delivery drivers who don't bother to look as they blow through the intersection
Evolutionif they complain, tell them its a tiny motorcycle
shortbus-wouldn't that be a moped?
stpierreEvolution: if you ride in traffic you're *mostly* a vehicle. then you just have to deal with riding in traffic
stpierreso instead of cars accidentally hitting you, they're actively trying to.
Evolutionstpierre: I'm actually impressed that you found a *worse* place for biking than houston
rigeld2shortbus-: in most places, motors under a certain size aren't even mopeds
stpierrei don't know about that, but it's not great. nebraska as a whole is 45th in the US for bike friendliness
stpierreso there are at least five states we're better than, and i wouldn't be the least bit surprised if texas was one of them
rigeld2 Texas was 33rd. You beat Kansas, SC, Kentucky, Montana, Alabama.
stpierrewhoo, better than alabama!
Evolutionman kansas sucks at everything
UssatIowa is 25 and WI is 3
Ussatwhich means we only try to hit you 1/2 the time
Evolutionminnesota, which has like 3 bikeable days a year is #2
Evolutionunless your bike has skiis
NameWitheldEvolution: You, and your horrible ideas.
EvolutionNameWitheld: hmm?
Evolutionwhat not?
Evolutioner, now
NameWitheldEvolution: Bikes with skis. How would you get any traction?
UssatEvolution, thats not a real rating, no one is brave enough to try up there so they just gave it a random number
EvolutionNameWitheld: see stpierre's image
NameWitheldEvolution: That's not "skiis" that's "ski" :P
Comnenuslooks harder to balance
EvolutionNameWitheld: every single time I have a terrible idea, it's already implemented
stpierrealso, it looks like there are bikes with skis for both wheels, which seem to be used for downhill exclusively
Evolutionat least this time it's not javascript
ComnenusI can only imagine what brought ski bikes up
NameWitheldComnenus: Minnesota.
stpierreComnenus: minnesota
balloonfaceComnenus: dude, minnesota.
balloonfaceget it?
NameWitheldComnenus: Very bike friendly. For like 3 days a year.
EvolutionComnenus: it's like boston was this winter
Comnenusand I get obvious puns, so this is not an obvious pun
Evolutionexcept all year round
siXystpierre: yeah, I've seen those. they're banned on a lot of lifts though.
Evolutionminnesota is the canada of the US
siXystpierre: mainly they're toys for people that suck at skiing :)
UssatEvolution, its not THAT bad
Comnenushow do you stop on those?
Comnenuson skis I can stop
NameWitheldComnenus: Put your feet down.
EvolutionComnenus: you pull a sonny bono
Comnenushey look, a list where Mississippi isn't dead last at something, with the exception of obesity.
siXyComnenus: same as skiing. turn bike sideways and dig edge in.
NameWitheldEvolution: That would certainly keep you from going very fast.
NameWitheldEvolution: But what do you do if two people want to ski bike at the same time?
siXybut you can't do shit like this on a bike:
fedbotsiXy: Title: One of those days 2 - Candide Thovex, Views: 15692364, Rating: 98.850564%
LzrdKingredragon_: thats exactly what happened, contract expired (along with the cert) and then was renewed
LzrdKingredragon_: and the new cert is not like the old at all
LzrdKingi see in the xml that quantity=1 always; in the old one, it was 200, or 50, or 6568, etc
redragon_yup, the sales person didn't put the sku in same way this time
LzrdKingwhat needs to be done to fix it?
LzrdKingjust contact our sales guy?
rigeld2LzrdKing: yes.
Ussatwhat a waste of a donated organ:
rigeld2LzrdKing: PM me your account number and I'll look at stuff
balloonfacesounds dirty
Ussatprobably is
Comnenushe got a heart transplant after being on the list for seven days??
LzrdKingand now its dead
balloonfaceIn what can only be described as "far far FAR too much work for the gain" I actually manually defragged my LV's with pvmove:
balloonfaceI really wish there were a utility for doing that so I could have moved onto wasting my time on other things
UssatComnenus, yup
Ussata waste of two lives
Comnenusdoesn't it typically take months to years?
UssatComnenus, can.
acidrainfallballoonface: that's a lot of pulp
siXyballoonface: you spent time "defragging" your LVs? *why*?
Ussatdepends on lots of factors
balloonfacesiXy: because I wanted to know how to do it
siXybut, why?
balloonfacethe practical benefit is making read_ahead_kb and rotational media function better
balloonfaceshould a request straddle that fragmentation
siXyuh. yeah. it... it doesn't really work like you think.
balloonfaceuh I think it does
balloonfacethe read_ahead_kb is one the block device itself
balloonfaceone* the block device*
balloonfacegod damn the defragging broke my mind
siXyyou misunderstand my objection.
balloonfacek then fire away
Evolutiondefragging? what is this, window?
balloonfacesiXy: so what is the objection?
siXypatience, trying to condense what is really should be a huge blog article into a few lines of irc
balloonfaceI'm aware that it's of marginal benefit which is why I said it's far too much work for the gain
UssatsiXy, just link url :)
balloonfaceif it were a tool it'd probably be a self-guided 10-15 minute process I could fire and forget on
siXyUssat: there is no url, I haven't actually written the blog post :)
Ussatwell get on it :)
stpierreballoonface: but there's not a tool *for a reason*
stpierrethis is what i was trying to say the other day. no one does this because it's just plain not worth it
siXythis isn't fat16. journalled filesystems won't become fragmented (modulo some exceptions that you will likely never see). The FS (ext4 or xfs, doesn't matter here) works damn hard to make sure your file is all in the same place on the disk. it's possible for there to be more than one chunk in a single file, but it's really rare, and only happens with files so huge that one or two seeks won't make a big difference in practice anyway.
balloonfacesiXy: that's fine for FS level stuff, but the filesystem can't control how the extent are physically written to the disk. It just sees an unbroken contiguous block device.
balloonfaceI was "fixing" the fragmentation of the logical volume itself
balloonfacenot too worried about FS-level fragmentation for the reason you're alluding to in that comment
siXythe filesystem basically looks like this: start of disk> [ long list of addresses of where everything is (called inodes) ] rest of disk> blocks of actual data (ext* is a bit worse than this, but we're ignoring dentry tables here). this is mapped to the disk location, so when you allocate a new file of X GB, the FS will find you a contiguous block of free space that your file can go into.
siXyso as long as your files aren't growing continuously by small amounts (and really there's only one type of file that does this - log files - and noone cares about log read performance), you just don't really get fragmentation.
balloonfaceif it can, but I understand FS fragmentation has been minimized, I was resolving the LV like I said up there
siXythere's a bunch of work the filesystem does under the hood, too, to minimise fragmentation even if the file does keep growing in unhelpful ways - it'll tend to leave free blcoks after a file where it can, so that file can grow
stpierrebut how fragmented could your LVs have possibly been? i can easily imagine having a single-digit number of LV "fragments" if you grow the FS enough times, but even that really isn't that bad
stpierreand presumably if you care about performance your VG is already spread across multiple disks in a RAID, so non-contiguous LVs are even less of an issue
siXylooking at your paste, you're using mongodb, which is likely where you've got confused. MongoDB *does* have fragmentation problems. but not at the layer you think it does.
stpierre(which is to say, not an issue at all)
balloonfacestpierre: as far as LV's can get fragmented they were pretty bad. the root LV had about 5 separate spans
siXymongodb gets fragmented within it's own data file, because it's written by a group of drooling monkeys
balloonfacelike I've said before I realize it's of marginal benefit
siXybut this is not the way to fix that
balloonfacesiXy: dear god, please just read my messages
balloonfaceI'm begging you
siXymongodb has its own compaction tools (which suck) or you can just wipe the secondary replset and let it reclone
stpierreif you're worried about the performance penalties of an LV in 5 spans, but are not running on RAID, then you're doing it mad super hella wrong
stpierreif you're worried about the performance penalties of an LV in 5 spans, and *are* running on RAID, then stop worrying already
Evolutiongod I hate email
stpierreeither way, stop "defragging" your LVs
balloonfacestpierre: this is on a VM where the data store is coming from the SAN so I'd imagine it's RAID'd already
Evolutionlet me rephrase, got I hate email clients
balloonfacestpierre: I can't say this enough I'm aware of the marginal benefit
siXyballoonface: I get disconnected every few secs from znc atm, so I guess I missed your response - what was it?
balloonfaceand the work being far too much for the gain
stpierre"marginal" == none, in this case. so as long as you're aware that you've just spent four days or whatever masturbating with LVM, then i guess knock yourself out
balloonfacesiXy: I'm not worried about FS level fragmentation, my logical volumes themselves were just fragmented into five pieces across two or three disks
balloonfacestpierre: lol
balloonfacedidn't spend four days though
balloonfacemore like two hours off and on
siXy.. and you did all this to reduce five fragments to three?
balloonfacesiXy: no I did it to one
balloonfaceone fragment
EvolutionsiXy: DUDE, that's 40% improvement!
siXyspend the time aggresively compacting mongodb instead
balloonfaceI'll probably get to stuff like that eventually tbh
ashpgoddamn it evolution
ashpI just ran into that docker bug with rhel 7.1 in ec2
EvolutionsiXy: mongodb won't fit in the trash compactor here
balloonfaceI just wanted to do this first
ashpI blame you :(
stpierre"I'll get to things that actually help eventually"
Evolutionashp: which docker bug?
ashpthe "can't pull from" one
siXybut... compacting mongodb actually makes it far far faster... this lvm stuff... well, moving from 3 disks down to 1 could actually make it slower...
balloonfacestpierre: you never do things because they interest you?
ashpthe one where it gives me "FATA[0000] HTTP code: 403"
Evolutionashp: use a fucking newer dockah
ashpoh hmm, docker-1.5.0-1.el7.x86_64, maybe I fucked something else up this time
ashp-1 works, it's -27 that definitely doesn't
stpierrei try to do things that need to be done first, at least
stpierreand then if i want to rub one out afterwards, i usually use porn instead of LVM
MerlinTHPIf mongodb is in a garbage compactor, it gets to be eaten by the Dianoga, then squashed flat.
siXystpierre: LOL
Evolutionashp: that's backwards from what you said yesterday
Evolutionashp: yesterday -1 didn't work but -27 did
balloonfacestpierre: isn't that like saying "why have a wood shop when you can just buy your furniture which is easier and often times cheaper?"
ashpEvolution: oh no, -1 is what I rolled back to in my own env and that works
siXystpierre: really glad I'm not in the office today, as I'd hate to have to explain why I burst out laughing to anyone
ashpEvolution: sorry, I must have misspoke/mangled/gibbered, it's -1 that works and -27 that is fucked for me locally
Evolutionso use our docker-master?
Evolutionit's a nightly build
stpierreno, it's like saying "make the table sit squarely on its four legs before you spend hours whittling detailed pastoral scenes into the underside where literally no one will ever see them"
Evolutionsurely the nightlies will be stable
balloonfacesiXy: not slower, it's not like I un-RAID'd them or something. The RAID happens on the SAN side I just made the space as contiguous as possible to maximize the effect of read_ahead_kb as much as I could.
Evolutionstpierre: he just put a modern twist on it
balloonfacestpierre: if that's what someone wants to do with their time, then I don't see the problem with that
ashpEvolution: I'm just gonna wait until someone else reports it and figures it out :D
ashpEvolution: because we're a week late to ship
balloonfaceactually seems kind of like an easter egg to include in the design
ashpso i gotta get that out the way before I fix all the billion bits of tech debt :(
gaurdroEvolution, and are backed by the Centos Support center, a proud consumer of FOaaS technology.
stpierreballoonface: like i said, knock yourself out. i;m just trying to help you understand why you got so little help (and so much push-back) with this little wank
balloonfacestpierre: plus your example assumes this server is on its last legs or something
Evolutionashp: good news. we're bundling technical debt for sale on the commodities exchange
stpierreno, it assumes that mongodb compaction is useful and important and shit
Evolutionwe got the idea from the housing market
balloonfacestpierre: which isn't really required because a statement to that effect was included when I first said I had done this
ashpEvolution: I'm gonna be a billionaire, fuck yeah!
stpierreEvolution: you may have just come up with a brilliant idea for a startup
ashphe did
ashpdibs on being a cofounder
stpierrecan i be a c-level please?
siXymongodb isn't even particularly readhead friendly, and readahead is pretty crap most of the time anyway
ashpwe'll be like those banks
siXyrotational disks are *already* great at sequential IO
Evolutionnow we need a technical debt collection agency
ashpwher eeveryone is an "executive"
ashpWe'll all be CTOs
stpierre"it's a flat organization structure"
balloonfacesiXy: that would actually be a reason making it sequential would be a good thing, I think you made the opposite point you intended
rigeld2The receptionist is CRO.
siXyreadahead means you waste cycles and bandwidth reading blocks you often just throw away unread anyway
stpierre"the 'C' is for 'Comrade'"
balloonfacesiXy: no it doesn't
balloonfacewhy would they include that in the kernel if that's what it meant?
NameWitheldEvolution: Just wait until you get too big to fail.
siXyballoonface: no. it already was sequential. 5 fragments across your entire volume group doesn't materially affect fragmentation of the actual files one bit
balloonfacethat's like having an sysctl parameter to send an email to your boss telling him he's a wanker
balloonfacesiXy: that makes no sense
siXy"oh there's an option for this in the kernel, it must be a good idea" -- yeah, great argument there
Ussatballoonface, systemD has a controll for that
NameWitheldsiXy: was it the wanking to LVM comment that made you lol?
siXyNameWitheld: yes
balloonfacethe LV's they're saved to are fragmented but the extents are somehow contiguous?
balloonfacesiXy: I'm just saying you don't understand readahead
balloonfaceit's useful for workloads with a lot of sequential reads
stpierrethere were only *four* points of discontinuity
balloonfacewhich is why it's an option to begin with
balloonfacestpierre: again we're not talking scale, I've granted that point
siXybecause you have a grand total of 5 splits across your entire FS. the chances of one of those splits even being in the middle of an important file are pretty damn low, and even if they are? that's *one* fragment. seriously. just think a bit.
balloonfacehe's saying I've harmed performance somehow
balloonfacesiXy: I have literally said the exact same thing about 10 times now
balloonfacethe same thing you're trying to tell me
stpierreit's not like you had data scattered all over hell and back, there were a whopping four files that would be "fragmented." but your actual ones and zeros are already on a wildly abstract storage system, so even those five segments could have actually been contiguous (or, more likely, the individual segments are each on multiple disks)
balloonfaceit was literally the first thing I said in this discussion
Evolutionstpierre: we need ashp to be our frontline guy though. afaict he's the best at creating/identifying technical debt
balloonfacestpierre: I seriously doubt they were contiguous but like I've said a million times before it was a learning exercise
stpierreEvolution: the terrible thing is that now you've got me scheming on how we could turn this into an actual business model
siXyballoonface: you continue to totally misunderstand. it doesn't *matter* how many goddamn splits your LV has. at no point does your server read an entire LV anyway. what it reads are *files*. and the only time fragmentation would make any difference is if your actual files were fragmented. which they were not. and are not.
stpierreballoonface: but you learned nothing that will be applicable to real problems
NameWitheldEvolution: And he probably has an accent, which is always a plus.
balloonfaceI've granted the marginal benefit no fewer than 20 times already and somehow we keep getting back to that point
stpierreso it was a masturbatory exercise. it was useless and silly.
balloonfacehow difficult of a person are you that someone could agree with you and you still argue with them?
ashpEvolution: I am the king of technical debt
Evolutionstpierre: you and I both know it would involve management consulting
balloonfacestpierre: masturbatory, granted but interesting enough to me to do
NameWitheldstpierre: I prefer my masturbatory exercises have at lease one use, even if they are silly.
stpierreEvolution: absolutely
siXyit's not even nesecarily a benefit. going from 3 smaller san volumes to one bigger san volume might even slow things down a tad, depending on your transport and your SAN.
ashpEvolution: just name what you want, a database with no backups, a huge pile of undocumented puppet code? some shitty chef cookbooks, a load of bash scripts that just get called from cron all the time and what the fuck is it even doing anyway?
ashpa bunch of containers that don't restart on reboot?
ashpi got you.
NameWitheldredragon_: I blame bemis.
balloonfacesiXy: the files could still be fragmented on the disk, which is why fragmentation matters to begin with. If the file took up two extents and happened to be at the end of one LV fragment and at the start of another, that could cause an extra seek or two
stpierreballoonface: i think the problem here is that all of us have worked with people who obsessively optimize for the wrong thing. those people cost the company money, they don't bear their own load within an organization, and they're not fun to work with. because IT is a team sport, doing stupid things -- even harmless stupid things -- hurts the "team"
stpierreso it's not so much that we think you did something that necessarily has a negative or detrimental technical outcome, but that none of us want to be your coworker any more
balloonfacethat's kind of a harsh judgment over a pet project
balloonfaceyou've never had downtime?
redragon_NameWitheld, don't we all?
siXyadditionally - when talking about this on the internet, there's a danger that other people who know just enough to get themselves in real trouble think "hey, that sounds like a neat idea. I should do that too!" and we get to waste time explaining why they're wrong. again.
stpierreif you don't have mongodb compaction set up, you clearly don't have downtime either
balloonfacesiXy: good thing I've included "not worth the time" in this conversation about 40,000 times by now then, eh?
stpierre(and no, not recently -- that's pretty well the whole point of kanban)
acidrainfallSo how about them Dodgers?
acidrainfallor whatever basketball team you root for
acidrainfallthat's the one where they tackle each other right?
acidrainfallon ice?
balloonfacestpierre: know what else makes people not want to work with someone? If they seem like they're BS'ing. For example, you know nothing about my mongodb setup but are complaining that I haven't enabled compaction
acidrainfallY'all need coffee.
balloonfaceall you know is that I have a LV called "mongodb"
stpierreyou've said before that you'll get to compaction eventually
siXyballoonface: you said you haven't enabled compaction, and that you're planning to get around to it at some point
ashpfucking busted balloonface
balloonfacestpierre: that doesn't mean it isn't happening
ashpalso I'd love to work with stpierre again, so there
stpierrelike, you know i have logs, right?
ashpballoonface: see if this helps your issue
fedbotashp: Title: Episode 1 - Mongo DB Is Web Scale, Views: 238933, Rating: 97.294874%
balloonfacehow did we get so emotional over such a stupid thing to begin with?
stpierreeither you're lying now or were lying then, either way idgaf
balloonfacestpierre: let's take a step back and remember how this started
siXyballoonface: because I'd rather not have you mislead people into thinking what you're doing has any benefit whatsoever.
siXybecause it doesn't.
balloonfacesiXy: I've told you a million times now, it's not a secret
balloonfacejust repeating that doesn't make it true
Evolutiondear #rhel.....
ashpoh for fucks sake I'm still encountering that dumb rhel7.1 systemd enabling bug, ARGH
ashpwonder if there's an update to fix it yet
gaurdroACTION calls his butcher and sees if they have zebra.
balloonfaceand for the record "will look into it" doesn't mean I'm not doing it, it means I'm going to look into it
Evolutionashp: hmm for docker?
Evolutionsystemd works fine in docker as of 7.1 now
ashpEvolution: no it's a bug with things named blah@.service, if you try to do systemctl enable blah@1.service you run into a weird bug
stpierrethey have lion, too
balloonfaceit's also not productive to call people lazy or liars or any number of other things you've gone out of your way to say none of which is true
ashpor at least you do with the way ansible tries to do it, there's an open bugzilla for it somewhere
stpierre$500/lb for ground
balloonfacejust because I did one thing you wouldn't personally do yourself
NameWitheldEvolution: D'awwww! Kitty loves a stripey horse!
ashpballoonface: anything I wouldn't do is inherently terrible
balloonfacenaturally, I give you an exception ashp
ashpEvolution: aha, it's fixed
Evolutionashp: s/n't//
ashpsystemd-sysv-208-20.el7.x86_64 seems to have
siXyTIL: "Zebra meat has a similar taste to horse meat or flavored beef. It is light and lean and commonly eaten in the United States."
gaurdrostpierre, My place can actually do zebra. and for a lot cheaper than that!
EvolutionZathrus: actually. did you look to see if --user is fixed in 7.1?
NameWitheldsiXy: I wonder what they mean by "commonly".
siXyNameWitheld: I wondered at that too
siXyprobably more common than duck-billed platypus, but - going out on a limb here - less common than beef.
stpierregaurdro: this stuff isn't even organic! ugh!
siXyinogranic zebra.
acidrainfallsiXy: I've heard horse is good
siXyif anything I'm now even more intrigued
gaurdrouncommon cuts are roughly $25/lb more common steaks/roasts/offal are around $50/lb.
stpierresiXy: texas may be famous for its beef, but oklahoma is all about zebra. vast miles of zebra ranches, as far as the eye can see!
siXyacidrainfall: meh, it's okay. there's better meat
NameWitheldOnly two things come out of Texas.
NameWitheldAnd one of them is beef.
MerlinTHPthe other is beefcaaaaaaaaake
stpierreis the other one texans? or oil?
NameWitheld \o.
EvolutionMerlinTHP: java is quickly becoming my white whale.
siXyI did hear there was some sort of effort to bring back bison to the US
NameWitheldstpierre: Full Metal Jacket?
stpierresiXy: you mean as wild critters?
siXythat's what I heard.
EvolutionMerlinTHP: I'm half tempted to just pull java binaries from f21 and be all "fuck it, this is what you get"
siXyalthough "critter" always sounded like the name of a small thing, and I thought bison were rather big, so I dunno.
stpierrei know there are wild herds in some of the national parks and grasslands, but i can't imagine there's enough unfenced land elsewhere for too many of them to thrive
NameWitheldsiXy: I've seen a few exotic animal farms here, but this being Texas, I always assumed they were raised for huntin'.
acidrainfallEvolution: what makes it so hard?
stpierreit's not like they can hope a barbed wire fence like a deer
NameWitheldMerlinTHP: Rascal?
siXystpierre: I thought there were huge areas of land in the middle bits that were not very occupied?
Evolutionacidrainfall: I need to build openjdk 1.7 to build some el7 bits. but aarch64 support doesn't exist for openjdk before 1.9
stpierreyes -- but they are very farmed and/or ranched
Evolutionso.... yeah.
siXy(I don't know what any of the middle bits are called)
acidrainfallEvolution: really? no backwards compatability whatsoever?
acidrainfallACTION needs to read up on aarch
stpierre"the great plains," accurately; or "the midwest," inaccurately; or "the great american desert," anachronistically
MerlinTHPAnd the Dakotas
Evolution"fly-over country"
acidrainfallstpierre: "Flyover Country", chidingly.
MerlinTHPPosleen country.
acidrainfallyou beat me
siXysadly that arm hosting service I found only has ARMv7 not aarch64 :(
siXyI haven't found a good aarch64 host yet
MerlinTHPThere's not enough aarch64 hardware out there, sadly
LzrdKingrigeld2: you rock, my satellite server is now no longer threatening that it will stop working in a few days
siXyand my home connection isn't close to reliable enough to host stuff on
siXywhat I'd really like is a hoster that provided aarch64 units with HSM modules
siXybut I suspect that's solid gold toilet territory
acidrainfallPardon my lack of knowledge of architectures, but what makes aarch64 special?
siXyacidrainfall: it's an arm chip that isn't quite as horribly crippled as regular arm
siXyer. arch.
siXyso it has things like hardware AES functions, like proper CPUs do
acidrainfallBut is it arguably better than x86_64 or amd64?
siXyand thus doesn't require you to use curious and unusual ciphers to get any sort of SSL performance, for example.
MerlinTHPAnd it's new and rare enough to be the perfect fit for hipster siXy
acidrainfallhe wants to be in on it before it gets cool
Comnenusdo you have hipsters in the UK?
acidrainfallthe logic checks out
siXyACTION thwaps MerlinTHP 
acidrainfallComnenus: hipsters are everywhere
Comnenuswhere did they start?
acidrainfallthey've always been around
Comnenusdid they pull a puritan, or is this the american invasion?
MerlinTHPThis little coffee shop, you've not heard of it
MerlinTHPBut they play music by this awesome little indie band you don't know
Comnenusdoes she sing monotone and play a eukele? those are the best.
siXyACTION is glaring *so hard* at MerlinTHP right now
acidrainfallthey were turned into a mainstream pop-counterculture (what a ridiculous contradiction the entire thing is) by evolution of the scene counterculture and the popularization of local/"indie" music
MerlinTHPI wondered why I was feeling a bit warm
MerlinTHP200 mile stare
MerlinTHPGood effort
Comnenusin general, your music is "indie" because it sucks and nobody will buy it.
acidrainfallhave you heard hipster music?
Comnenusahhh... if I have, I don't know
acidrainfallthis bitch makes millions of dollars a year by taking OTHER PEOPLE'S MUSIC and playing it softly on a piano, with bad vocal technique
acidrainfallI'm like
Comnenuswhat makes it hipster?
acidrainfallI used to get paid $200 a month to sing for ~10,000 people
stpierreComnenus: you haven't heard of it yet
Comnenusacidrainfall: $200 in $1 bills?
stpierreacidrainfall: remind me, are you in socal or norcal?
acidrainfallnaw now it's a mathematical formulas
acidrainfallstpierre: socal
acidrainfallComnenus: ha. You're funny. :|
stpierreare you by any chance a member of the GMCLA?
acidrainfallIs that a union?
stpierregay men's choir of LA
ComnenusHe "sang" his way around the pole...over and over and over...
stpierrea friend of mine is, i was wondering how small the world was
acidrainfallComnenus: the "pole"
acidrainfallstpierre: If I lived in LA I would be. I think I have friends in the choir.
acidrainfallI live in San Diego. The SDGMC sucks.
acidrainfallThey have a blast and love singing, but there's a bunch of queeny politics and they're kind of a show choir.
acidrainfallI'd rather sing for the LA Opera or the LA Master Chorale.
acidrainfallStupid decision of my life: I turned down my offer for the SD Opera chorus
acidrainfallIt was the right decision, I didn't have the time
acidrainfallbut man
acidrainfallI regret it
acidrainfallSo many friends in that chorus, they did the Verdi Requiem last year
acidrainfallstpierre: where do you live?
Comnenusa different type of hipster.
Comnenusstereotypically I was supposed to dress like that, but I didn't. Because it looks pretty silly.
ComnenusI have never in my life owned boat shoes or shorts like that.
NameWitheldMy boat shoes didn't look like that, but I definitely had yellow and red shorts in elementary school.
Comnenusalso if they want to leave dress shirts untucked (I do) they need to look for the casual style, not the dress style. Dress shirts are too long to leave untucked.
acidrainfallComnenus: stereotypically?
acidrainfallwhy so?
Comnenus<-- Phi Kappa Theta
acidrainfalloh you're one of those
ComnenusI matured past college.
acidrainfallonce a fratboy always a fratboy
Comnenuswell... yes it's a life thing.
ComnenusI was never really that douchey, though. I was about as douchey then as I am now.
EvolutionACTION refrains from commenting
ComnenusEvolution: you never refrain from commenting.
ComnenusEvolution: shoot.
Comnenusand for the record, you're about as douchey as I am, so you really can't have too much to say about it.
siXyComnenus: if Evolution isn't gonna say it, it must be *really* bad
siXyhe usually doesn't really have a "line"
MerlinTHPor a filter
siXyACTION stirs up trouble
MerlinTHPor an inside voice
MerlinTHPor an inner monologue
Comnenushe thinks he has inner monologues.
NameWitheldComnenus: Eat your brains?
EvolutionComnenus: I have inner monologues
EvolutionI just get all kanye about them and share them with the world
ComnenusYou do have inner monologues, but you put them here
ComnenusEvolution: weren't you in a fraternity as well?
NameWitheldComnenus: maxamillion was.
EvolutionI got asked to pledge a couple times
NameWitheldOr is. I'm fuzzy on this and he's busy.
Evolutionafter the army, it was all downhill
UssatI was also
Evolution"hey, wanna drink with a bunch of guys all in the same clothes?"... do you have explosives? ... "no"... not as much fun as last time
rigeld2NameWitheld: "busy" is an understatement.
NameWitheldrigeld2: "sleep deprived" ? I'm not on the friendbook, so I don't know if he's still posting things.
Evolutionrigeld2: "OH GOD HE'S *STILL* CRYING!!! WHY WONT HE STOP!?!?!?!?
rigeld2NameWitheld: She posted they went home yesterday and there's been nothing else. About what I expect.
rigeld2Evolution: Because you have to turn the Taser off sometimes
ComnenusEvolution: I wouldn't pledge if they didn't have explosives.
Comnenusrigeld2: I'm sure all three are exhausted from twenty minute naps every few hours.
EvolutionComnenus: I just made friends with a couple cheerleaders in college. seems that's all you need to get full access everywhere
Comnenusthis is true.
ComnenusUnless I was working the door.
ComnenusYour cheerleaders have no power here. can come in though.
NameWitheldComnenus: Are you working the door anywhere Evolution and cheerleaders would want to go in college?
EvolutionComnenus: pfft, we had male cheerleaders too
ComnenusNameWitheld: probably, yeah.
Comnenuswe threw arguably the biggest parties.
Comnenuswe also had the space to do it. Our house was huge.
NameWitheldOH! Frat party. Sorry, I wasn't following.
NameWitheldComnenus: I thought club? Or something?
Comnenusand when it wasn't at our house, it was at a club or bar somewhere.
NameWitheld"TIL Comnenus was a bouncer in college..."
Comnenuswe did co-sponsor events at clubs, yeah. you pull in good money.
Comnenusand then you can put that money back into better parties.
ComnenusOr repairing whatever shit people broke at your last party at the house.
Evolutioncollege -^
EvolutionComnenus: that's about 1 sqmi
ComnenusThis where you grew up with 2,000 people?
EvolutionComnenus: it's a college town
Comnenus1 per square mile? AHAHAHAHA
Evolutionno, 1 square mile has something like 25 bars
Evolutionand it's almost literally in the heart of the campus
Comnenuswithout thinking too hard I have 6 within a quarter mile of my apartment
NameWitheldEvolution: There's a bar called "Broney's"? ... I guess we know who their clientele is.
siXy25 bars per square mile doesn't sound all that much to me...
Comnenusyou did grow up in Athens, right?
Evolutionmarietta. about an hour away.
EvolutionI was born just outside athens though
EvolutionNameWitheld: that wasn't there when I went. I mostly hung out at pigskin or the union
UssatYea for Cali
NameWitheldJust saying.
ComnenusI have been trying new places recently.
ComnenusTrying to branch out from my section of Cambridge and Fenway.
ZathrusEvolution: I looked, --user is still busted
EvolutionZathrus: damn
ComnenusI prefer going out when schools are out of session and there's no sports going on.
Comnenuseverywhere is too crowded otherwise.
ZathrusEvolution: I'd put in doc change requests if I didn't know just how stupidly long it was going to take to fix the docs :(
EvolutionZathrus: heh
EvolutionZathrus: if they get some egg on their face, it'll change pretty damned quick
Comnenusoh god I am getting old.
fedbotComnenus: Title: 20s vs. 30s: Going Out, Views: 978808, Rating: 98.08272%
ComnenusI can actually relate to this.
rigeld2"In court briefs, lawyers for the SCV stressed that a visitor to the gift shop in the Texas Capitol can buy replica Confederate currency and miniature Confederate flags, yet when the SCV sought to express the same message it was rejected." pretty strong argument.
stpierresome day people will learn that you have to let everyone play if you let anyone play
NameWitheldSolution: NO ONE CAN PLAY.
rigeld2stpierre: Except we want to keep out the gays, and the blacks, and the poor people, and the non-Catholics.
Comnenusthat argument doesn't even compute.
stpierrehonestly, i don't get all the hubbub about specialty plates. a donation to the charity and a bumper sticker would do more good for less money (at least in TN, where the plates cost $50 extra, of which only $20 went to support the organization behind the plate)
Comnenusscrew the $50 plate, wine and dine me instead and I'm in.
rigeld2stpierre: I don't like them either... but if the option is there...
stpierrerigeld2: wait, the non-Catholics? awesome! i knew we'd win eventually, by outbreeding you Protestant SOBs! a strong work ethic can never compete with a completely bonkers opposition to birth control
stpierrerigeld2: yeah, agreed
NameWitheldstpierre: I actaully laughed a little at that one. Thank you. :D
rigeld2stpierre: Yeah, you Catholics won at something all right... "WHO HAS THE MOST KIDS>?!?!" is a fight I'll let you win :p
NameWitheldrigeld2: Hey, watch out. Remember Idiocracy.
ZathrusMormons win
stpierrewell we're gonna run up the score on you anyway
ZathrusACTION remembers a couple of girls in his High School that were Mormons (and sisters; one my grade, one the grade below). They honestly said they each wanted at least a dozen kids.
stpierregood grief
stpierrei think even most of the *really* good Catholics in our parish stop at 5-7
acidrainfallIt's kinda fun to have an issue that makes absolutely no sense, and know where to start.
acidrainfallIt comes with that hard-time-earned deep knowledge of a product/system
acidrainfallgives me warm fuzzies, all that pain wasn't for nothing
ComnenusMy mother has 4 sisters
ZathrusI found the Pope's recent messages on this to be humorous and _slightly_ contradictory.... saying that having too many kids was "irresponsible" and not to "breed like rabbits"... and a few weeks later saying that not having kids was "selfish". I understand what he was trying to say, but perhaps being more clear would've been good.
Comnenusthe award goes to my insane second cousin, who is some lunatic southern christian type, with 18 kids.
Comnenussouthern baptist, I think.
Comnenus18 kids in SC, if they were a bit younger, she would have a reality show.
Comnenusthe oldest was the only one to escape (actually lives near me), and she does not want kids because she "already raised 17 of them"
acidrainfallZathrus: it's pretty clear to me - his message was don't be stupid
acidrainfallbut don't abstain from having children
acidrainfallHonestly I can't stand that about the catholic church
acidrainfalland any culture that pushes people to have children
ZathrusComnenus: there are some evangelical churches (or, really, individuals) that are that cra-cra. The only groups I can think of that tend toward that as a _group_ though are Amish and Mormons.
acidrainfallOur world is so grossly overpopulated because of those ideologies
ComnenusZathrus: they're either evangelical or southern baptist.
acidrainfallthe many children thing?
acidrainfallthat's just christians in general
ZathrusComnenus: probably both
Zathrusacidrainfall: no it's not
Comnenusat 14 the kid who was my age knew he wanted to be a preacher
acidrainfallIt is though
ComnenusI was like ehhh... I think being a cop would be pretty cool
stpierreZathrus: he was probably trying to say, "Paul VI should never have written Humanae Vitae, but I can't say that, so I'll start the ball rolling so that my successor's successor might be able to"
acidrainfallIt may not be taught from the pulpit
acidrainfallBut it's there
stpierreat least, i hope that's what he was trying to say
Zathrusstpierre: nod.
acidrainfallComnenus: me too, I even went to college
ComnenusZathrus: they're all in Africa somewhere right now recruiting. They're basically their own cult.
acidrainfallwent in a ministry/theology major
acidrainfallgraduated an atheist
acidrainfallwith a theology degree
acidrainfallit hurts
acidrainfallit was fun though
ComnenusI went in with a double major in computer science and electrical engineering and came out with a business degree.
acidrainfallnothing teaches you to critically inspect a text than losing your belief in it halfway through college, past the tipping point.
Zathrusnote that current population models predict that the human race should peak at about 9B people and then start reducing.
Zathrusbased purely off birth/death rates and modeling how they change as areas become better off
Zathrusi.e. -- this is not presuming some massive plague / war / etc
acidrainfallanother 2 billion
Comnenuswhy would areas become better off?
Zathrusacidrainfall: if it makes you any happier, it's almost entirely on the other side of the planet.
Comnenushalf the world is actively trying to go back into the dark ages
ZathrusIIRC, by 2030 India will replace China as the most populated nation
Comnenuswhich is funny in a sad way because a lot of those areas were what brought us out of the dark ages.
Zathrusexcepting that there wasn't really a dark ages
Comnenussure there was.
ComnenusIt started at the fall of the Roman Empire.
acidrainfallComnenus: which fall?
acidrainfallthere were like... 10
acidrainfallsome argue it never fell
ComnenusI'm not going to argue with you. If you don't know what I'm referring to, go spend 2 minutes on wikipedia.
Zathrusyeah... perhaps you should start off with as a primer on why it's considered a deeply inaccurate term, and not used by historians any more.
Comnenus"middle ages"
Comnenusyou know what I meant, who cares.
acidrainfallZathrus: what other side of the world do you live on?
Comnenusbeing an atheist you should love the term dark ages.
acidrainfallI don'
acidrainfallI don't like downplaying human history
ComnenusIt's when religion was at a pinnacle and science was in a pitfall.
foxnesnstate religion
foxnesnnot religion per say
acidrainfallEh, yes and no. I find the history of the whole thing to be fascinating.
acidrainfallright, state religion.
acidrainfallIt's funny, Constantine wasn't really a christian
acidrainfallhe just knew that christians would follow him, and there were a lot of them, so he converted
acidrainfalland boom - christian nation
ComnenusThe term once characterized the bulk of the Middle Ages, or roughly the 6th to 13th centuries, as a period of intellectual darkness between extinguishing the "light of Rome" after the end of Late Antiquity, and the rise of the Italian Renaissance in the 14th century.[3][5] This definition is still found in popular use,[1][2][6] but increased recognition of
Comnenusthe accomplishments of the Middle Ages has led to the label being restricted in application.
Comnenus"popular use"
acidrainfallComnenus: "yolo" is popularuse
acidrainfallpoular use*
ashpfinally running coreos in production
ashp(because I need etcd)
acidrainfalloh whatever I can't type
Comnenusacidrainfall: reductio ad absurdum.
acidrainfallad nauseum.
NameWitheldrigeld2: It looks like we're putting WebDevs on-call for issues with the main website. X.X I'm not holding my breath, but I'm cautiously optimistic.
ComnenusNameWitheld: the website is down?
acidrainfallIf a webdev touches it, it goes down
rigeld2NameWitheld: Finally?
acidrainfallThat's the rule at my company
acidrainfallWe don't let them touch anything anymore
acidrainfallOne webdev got into AWS and deleted a database instance for another project "accidentally"
NameWitheldrigeld2: Right?
acidrainfallthat was the last webdev to get access to anything
NameWitheldComnenus: It had better not be, we haven't handed it over yet!
NameWitheldacidrainfall: They picked this product, they keep effing with it and taking it down, and then they actively oppose us when we try to repair it. They won't handle maintenance tasks that they already have access to, so we're baiscally giving them full control and saying "If you care, you can fix it."
acidrainfallthat's my favorite response
NameWitheldNot literally true, but close.
acidrainfalljnix: <#
acidrainfallwe good gurl
acidrainfallwe good
NameWitheldIRC circle jerk?
jnixhay hay
acidrainfallNameWitheld: circle blow
jnixi was gonna ping him something and forgot and hit enter
acidrainfallmuuuuuch more fun
acidrainfalljnix: lol
acidrainfallNameWitheld: what product?
NameWitheldacidrainfall: I thought everyone was a jerk in IRC? Or is that just me?
acidrainfallNameWitheld: Oh no we're all assholes
acidrainfallnice people don't last here
NameWitheldacidrainfall: It's dotCMS. It's a content management system with a WIZZY WIG HTML editor that's hosting our main website off a database. We eventually rebuilt it so the content is behind a pair of Varnish boxes, but the site itself is java app + DB on a single VM.
acidrainfalllol wizzy wig
rigeld2Because they literally don't support redundancy
acidrainfallwysiwyg *
acidrainfallunless you were being sarcastic
rigeld2And when the webdev was asked why we purchased this he said, quote, "It's what we could afford and I had to buy something."
acidrainfallDrupal is free
NameWitheldSo someone who works here makes a bad change to the DB, the server starts churning, people panic and go "Shut it down so the cache will take over!" .. Which we do. Then there's about 2 minutes while the cache figures out "Hey, that server isn't responding anymore..." and serves nothing. Where they panic again and go "The main page is not cached! Fail back right now!"
acidrainfalland has wysiwyg editors
NameWitheldacidrainfall: Yeah, I was being sarcastic.
acidrainfallI figured in retrosepct
acidrainfallI'm drugged pretty hard
acidrainfallsudafed isn't good to me :(
acidrainfallI went to a rehearsal last night
acidrainfallpeople were teasing me
acidrainfallI was like the token stoner
acidrainfallI can't believe I drove 80 miles round trip to rehearsal on sudafed
acidrainfallanother in retrospect, that probably wasn't wise
NameWitheldThat sounds bad.
acidrainfallI'm better at driving on it than I am at walking
NameWitheldacidrainfall: See, this is the sort of thing you realize in retrospect.
acidrainfallnot sure what the difference is.
NameWitheldacidrainfall: For one of them, you're sitting down?
acidrainfallthe drive home was windows down, funk remix blaring
acidrainfallI was pretty damn focused
acidrainfallmade good time too
NameWitheldacidrainfall: Sorry, I'm re-reading scrollback. You missed what rigeld2 quoted "I had to -buy- something". We don't trust anything that's free. Who do you complain to if it breaks?
NameWitheldI mean, I complain to you guys, but as far as I nkw no one else here is in IRC.
acidrainfallme too
acidrainfallI know none of my coworkers are in here
acidrainfallI did get one coworker signed onto irc but he's a windows guy
ComnenusI had coworkers on here in the past, but not now
NameWitheldSame here.
NameWitheldACTION eyeballs rigeld2
NameWitheldWe had one linux guy after the great exodus join IRC, but then he went to be a DBA, and I think now he's a teacher.
Comnenusteacher of DBA?
acidrainfalltypical transition
Comnenussounds like a silicon valley title
acidrainfall"Guru Master of DBA-fu"
acidrainfallmore accurate 2015 silicon valley title
rigeld2NameWitheld: And he wasn't a great linux guy nor dba afaik
NameWitheldrigeld2: Well, yeah, but I wasn't going to SAY that.
acidrainfallstpierre: what the
acidrainfallwhy did he hit him in the nads?
stpierreapparently the dude has literal balls of steel
stpierrebecause he missed the cinderblock
acidrainfallthat was
stpierrehaven't you seen the other angles that have been going around for days?
acidrainfalla serious miss
acidrainfallstpierre: no
stpierreoh. welcome to the internet
rigeld2At least it wasn't a student
rigeld2And jesus the guy has balls of steel. Or was wearing a cup - I'm going to hope the latter.
swine_where would i start if i want to do process-level sandboxing in linux?
jnixi have a coworker on here from time to time, but not one i'd ever bitch about
jnixthe only one other than me that has an idea of wtf is going on
jnixat least when we know what's going on
rigeld2PSA: Total number of blocks and used block count for ext4 filesystem changed in kernel version 2.6.32-471.el6 This only affects how df reports them.
ComnenusI told you... I grew up in a now certifiable shithole
ComnenusAnd I went to school between Fall River and New Bedford. Good lord, have I spent all but the last three years of my life in gangland?
ashpwell now i've broken some ec2 shit, typical day for me
ashpso frustrating, made a elb, added an incoming tcp rule to 4001 from my existing security group to the new security group
ashpit doesn't work, I hate this stuff
ashpit takes me weeks to get my ec2 brain back together
JKnifebwahaha “Jesus dined with thieves and hookers. You really think He’s gonna worry if gay people eat your pizza?”
queskerjust installed rh7. never asked for hostname, where do I config that?
ComnenusJKnife: "how do we as a state communicate to the world that we are respectful of a diverse workplace, and we do not discriminate..." welp, by not doing this?
c4iffquesker: /etc/sysconfig/network is what it was in RHEL6, may or may not have changed
JKnifeComnenus, what is disgusting is the gofundme campaign setup for them has raised over 200K in <24hours. -_-
ComnenusJKnife: yeah, they can go fund themselves.
c4iffquesker: so I correct my self, it looks like the option has changed
jnixquesker: man hostnamectl
Comnenusalso, their definition of persecution is different than mine.
Comnenusto me, persecution is not closing down your business voluntarily because people are calling you an asshole, and then other assholes give you $200k, that you get to keep.
queskerok ok
jnixthe governor of arkansas is a swell guy
Comnenusreal persecution is they shut down your business, throw you in jail, and they confiscate that $200k.
c4iffComnenus: anything less than a public stoning isn't persecution
c4iffComnenus: ++
Comnenusyou would think Christians, having been persecuted, would know that.
ComnenusWhen is the last time someone was fed to the lions while crowds cheered on? Been quite a while.
c4iffComnenus: happened too long ago they want their reparation money from the Romans
c4iffstill of course
ComnenusOr the Chinese Christians who have to practice in private because they'll be jailed or killed if the state finds out. That's persecution.
ComnenusGimme a fucking break.
JKnifeWhat is with this generations idea that everyone is out to get them?(just look at the news and tumblr)
c4iffComnenus: People in the US are too comforable.. so their level of atrocity and such is relative
JKnife^ previous statement is in reference to people in places like the US
c4iffJKnife: which I usually call out most complainers about their first world problems
c4iffmy fav is... well the maid was late this week
c4iffso I had to pick up some stuff my self
ComnenusOh - or the muslims raiding villages to kill christians in africa.
ComnenusThere's really no lack of examples of persecution that are happening right now.
ComnenusBoko Harem or whatever his name is
c4iffComnenus: or the communist bombing us with fruit baskets full of dildos
chri5pI would think since the majority of the nation identifies as "Christian", persecution hasn't really been felt by any and they belittle it by claiming they are (they not meaning the individuals, but the lead figures)
chri5pjust my .02...i'm getting in on the tail end of a discussion though
billingsalso, there's no evidence that Christians were fed to lions, at least, not specifically because they were christians.
chri5pmany people were fed to lions...just like many Gladiators weren't Roman
billingsits just not a good example of early christan persecution
chri5pinteresting tidbit...there is actual speculation that the post used to crucify some back then was not actually a "cross" as depicted today...but merely a straight post up from the ground
billingsI heard that
billingsthe 'cross' is a greek symbol too
billingsbut, this is old hat, apropriating symbols.
billingsall the major religions do it.\
chri5pOH yeah...I'm especially looking forward to the Christian Easter bunny making it's rounds this weekend ;)
stpierrethe idea of crucifixion on a plain gibbet was basically unheard of until it was suddenly and fortuitously discovered in the 19th century by a number of protestants who specifically wanted to distance themselves from roman papistry.
acidrainfallJKnife: liberals included
ZathrusJKnife: my wife's reaction to that pizza place was awesome. "If a gay couple came in here and asked us to make them pizza for their wedding, we'd refuse that." My wife: "Bitch, please. No gay couple is going to have pizza at their wedding."
acidrainfallthrow themselves under busses
acidrainfallthis coming from a liberal
acidrainfallI can't stand the "jump on indiana" thing
chri5pI'm all for public shaming though
stpierreafaik only jehovah's witnesses take the gibbet seriously any more
chri5pand that law was soooooooo bad (as in verbiage and context) that EVERY politician that supported it should be put on a podium and publicly shamed
chri5pbut you can't do that
stpierreeveryone else, insofar as they believe that Christ was an actual historical figure who actually existed, is pretty sure it was a t or T-shaped cross, and is not (or is no longer) associated in any way with the Greek tau
chri5pso the next best thing is to hit them in the pocket book
chri5pmost of you probably aren't old enough to remember this (including me) but I remember there were EXACT same arguments used when it came to race as well
ashpI finally found the perfect notebook
Zathruschri5p: Yes, and women's right to vote. And numerous other things.
chri5pit takes something like this to kick some people's collective ASSs in to gear
chri5pand I support this methodology way more than marching in the streets and burning things
stpierreburning things is fun though :(
Ussatchri5p, so I assume you dont agree with the threats to burn down their business ?
chri5palthough I think it would be FABULOUS if there was a Gay march and they painted everything Rainbow
chri5pI'd march in it too
chri5pUssat: indeed I don't...that's just bullshit...but when you use Hate as a weapon, you should expect Hate as a response, no?
ZathrusLet's go with "no".
chri5pbesides, burning down someone's business is no way to solve an's better to watch them slowly go out of business (because if they are refusing paying customers then they should) :)
UssatWell, 1) I dont think its "hate" 2) I believe if I owned a business I should be allowed to refuse service to anyone for any reason, and yea before you pull oput the race thing, that would mean I would be refused service in places. Now, the law says I cant, so obviousley I can not
UssatI believe the market will force them to change
chri5pIt's fine for you to refuse service based upon concern...but it's not based upon exclusion...that's the key difference here
ZathrusUssat: except that for close to 100 years "the market" failed to do exactly that.
Ussatand wrong Zathrus , I believe if you use hate, you should expect hate back
chri5pthey aren't concerned with a specific "person"...they are concerned with a group
jnixZathrus: i want to meet your wife
acidrainfallthe whole "the market will fix itself" thing is the dumbest argument ever
chri5pthat's the difference
UssatZathrus, but it eventually did, because peoples view changed
acidrainfallit's failed more often than it's worked
ZathrusBecause, hey, guess what? Markets aren't fucking perfect. That egalitarian, perfect world of macroeconomics? Didn't work.
stpierreit did? the market fixed itself with civil rights legislation?
stpierrethat's a strange way for the market to fix itself
Zathrusstpierre: ik,r?
chri5pI can deny "you" individually...I can't deny "all persons without blue eyes"
Ussatbut whatever, the law says I cant so, I folow the law, but I also do not own a business
rigeld2chri5p: Not really true - non-blue eyes aren't protected
Zathrusagain, you seem to be under the deep, deep misunderstanding that "the market" fixed itself, when it did NOTHING OF THE SORT.
rigeld2chri5p: You can discriminate against all Jim Perrins if you want - and you probably should - since Jim isn't a protected class.
UssatZathrus, whatever...I realy do not care right now to get into it...I honestly, do not care right now
StabbyMcI hateses Jim Perrins!
stpierrerigeld2: *all* Jim Perrins? you mean there's more than one? OHSHI
rigeld2stpierre: he's kind of a dick.
rigeld2stpierre: There might be.
Evolutionthere are.
Evolutionone's a british author
jnixi have too many IRC channels/networks :(
jnixwoe is me
MerlinTHP"He has six children by six different partners."
StuartMIvariety is the spice of life :)
MerlinTHPHe's got better game than you, Evolution
EvolutionI'm a better human being than him
Evolutionwhich is saying something
chri5prigeld2: but the difference is, if you keep discriminating, then Jim Perrins might become a protected class...then watch out for the lawsuits
JKnifeEvolution, debatable
siXyEvolution: have you noticed the title of the book he wrote?
chri5pit's better to keep that lowkey and not, say, pass legislation on it :D
Comnenusashp: which notebook?
MerlinTHPAlso, "The Villain".
ComnenusZathrus: you should watch the south park episode about the economy.
chri5pthen you can quietly discriminate to your hearts content
siXyI think there's things we should tell his wife.
chri5pbut it's not a "systematic" discrimination
MerlinTHPOh, dammit, my free netflix sub has run out.
chri5pthere are churches down the block that perform marriages to same-sex couples here
siXyfree netflix?
EvolutionsiXy: "he now lives on the Welsh borders"
MerlinTHPsix months "free" with my mobile phone contract.
chri5pand there are churches that refuse same-sex couples entry at all (even congregation)
chri5pguess which ones will increase in membership and which ones have lost members
chri5pit's not because it's a business, or because it's a's because both are made up of people
Evolutionthe *one* fucking message, consistent in the major religions is "love they neighbor"
Evolutionand it's what everyone ignores
chri5pEvolution: well, in their defense, many live in gated communities :D
siXyEvolution: well. only the nutjobs.
chri5pI think the best one is the Conservative movement to rewrite the interpretation of the bible
chri5pthat's the BEST one
chri5pJesus, apparently, wasn't as Liberal as the "Liberal drive by Media" might have you believe...LOL /s
siXyI suspect that there's actually fairly similar nutjob ratios between religious and non religious people, it's just that the religious nutjobs are sometimes more inclined to be public about their asshattery
chri5pthe thing that scares me, in all honesty, is people trying to push for a Theocracy and them not even realizing how bad that can be on soooooo many levels (even if "their belief" wins)
rigeld2chri5p: That's not totally true. If Civilization taught me anything it's that Thorcracies can get your units experience faster.
chri5prigeld2: but don't they ultimately fail eventually
chri5pfaster experience towards failure still has the same outcome...just quicker getting there
stpierrechri5p: not as long as you upgrade to Communism or Democracy once you start to expand away from your capital
chri5pI'm a bad nerd though...I didn't really ever play Civ very much
rigeld2Well sure, but you just switch off Theorcracy to a different one when you don't need to level up your dudes anymore
chri5pwell, switching at the right time for sure
chri5pbut did you ever switch back?
stpierrei have switched back to theocracy for brief periods of war
siXyand duck and cover as soon as gandi gets democracy
Evolutionrigeld2: civilization only taught me not to trust that ghandi fucker. he gets VIOLENT
stpierrea protracted war can cause too much discontent in a democracy
rigeld2chri5p: what stpierre is saying
rigeld2Evolution: IKR?!?!? Never trust that bastard - nuke him ASAP.
stpierreespecially for breaking someone's front line, when you need to have loads of units outside of cities
siXygandi is a great example of why unsigned ints lead to nuclear war.
stpierreonce you complete the tech tree, though, you can switch back to democracy and just max out luxury tax and then you can field like a zillion units from each city. hrm, this sounds familiar....
stpierrestop scientific research to fund frivolities that distract the populace from foreign wars....
chri5pwasn't he kind of a bastard IRL though too? I mean the whole starving for piece thing is good and all but he let his wife die because medical treatment was unnatural but then he went and got treatment when he was sick
rigeld2siXy: The first time that happened to me I thought "WHAT THE FUCK DID I DO TO PISS OFF GHANDI?!?!?"
stpierrewhere have i heard this before?
siXyrigeld2: ikr.
stpierrechri5p: also, he slept naked with multiple naked underage girls at a time, to test his resolve.
siXystpierre: is that what he called it
chri5pstpierre: pretty sure some of them were related nieces or something
siXyACTION ducks
stpierresiXy: hey, it's better than "thinking of baseball"
Evolutiongod fucking dammit systemd
billingsthink of england
chri5pspeaking of systemd
ashpjust another typical #rhel day
ashpi read up to see multiple naked underaged girls
acidrainfallashp: wat
ashpacidrainfall: I blame stpierre
ashpComnenus: these
ashpComnenus: they open flat and write nice
jnixfancy paper
Ussatwelp, I am out, have a good weekend folks
stpierreashp: i'm personally a big fan of a 49¢ 8"x5" spiral bound from target. oh, and i can buy 32 of them for the price of one of those
stpierrei still want a noteslate, though :(
Ussat &
rigeld2ashp: ... $300 tea maker, $16 note pad... What else do you overpay for to make yourself feel good? >.>
stpierrenoteslate resurrected their facebook page this year and promised preorders starting january 15th, which makes i think four years they've been stringing me along
ashprigeld2: hmmm, tea itself?
ashpI dunno, I have tried a load of notepads, from the cheap ones to nicer than this
guhcamposas longe as it’s not ruled
jnixi have a file called log.txt in my home directory
jnixwho needs a notepad
jnixlucidchart if i need to draw somethinga
guhcamposor the rules are really, really faded
jnixI have this
jnixwriting is nearly impossible for me
Comnenusashp: what do you do with it?
jnixi can type 120wpm though, go figure
jnixthat's part of the reason i was in special ed growin up
chri5psorry for leaving things hanging there
chri5psoooo...speaking of "systemd"
chri5pI didn't see any April Fools Day notification of kernel.d
acidrainfalljnix: you were in special ed?
acidrainfallmy coworkers passed around a typing test a month or so ago
acidrainfallI was the last to take it
acidrainfallone had like 88 wpm and was the highest by a margin
acidrainfallI hit 122
acidrainfallthey were like "no, that can't be possible"
acidrainfallso I took it again in front of them and got 123
jnixugh it's only 3
jnixacidrainfall: yeah i was
jnixacidrainfall: i am also a high school/college dropout
jnixalso the senior linux admin here
acidrainfallgoes to show all you have to be is driven and gay
jnixI didn't suck my way into this job
DiscordianUKOddly enough I dropped out of uni
jnix(and I wouldn't have if the opportunity presented itself, ew!)
jnixheyo DiscordianUK!
DiscordianUKHello jnix
jnixhow's it going?
acidrainfallI've gotten where I am by aiming higher than anyone else thought I could reach
acidrainfallI've yet to miss
acidrainfallI'm quite proud of that
acidrainfallMaybe I'm a small fry compared to you guys, but I'm still proud of it.
jnixacidrainfall: nah that's pretty much my method
DiscordianUKGetting used to being wheelchair bound and in the new flat
jnixDiscordianUK: ouch
acidrainfallDiscordianUK: wheelchair? :(
ComnenusI read the strangest shit when I come back
acidrainfallComnenus: that's what you get for leaving
Comnenusfirst line I see is jnix> I didn't suck my way into this job
DiscordianUKRight leg is broken not fixable
EvolutionDiscordianUK: ohshit
ComnenusI think jnix has enough integrity not to do that. I think.
ashpComnenus: write notes, draw a ton of boxes to diagram shit i'm building? make todo lists?
ashpdraw dicks all over the pages? I mean wahtever you want
jnixComnenus: i don't actually
jnixnobody here attractive enough
jnixDiscordianUK: double ouch
ComnenusI know that, I was trying to save face in a public forum. You should have went with it.
EvolutionDiscordianUK: guessing you're beyond the warranty replacement date for spare parts?
jnixoh yeah i have more integrity than that
Comnenusashp: you actually write stuff? weird.
chri5pDiscordianUK: sorry to hear that...that must have been one helluva a break though...I've heard of them piecing together legs you didn't think would stay attached to a body so it must have been bad
DiscordianUKI had too many falls
jnixashp: i play with this smelly yellow oracle modeling clay shit i got at summit
jnixi need to get some silly putty or something
ashpComnenus: yeah, I find it's really useful for some sad reason
ComnenusWho is going to summit anyway?
Comnenusregistration is open
ComnenusI'll be there, because it's cheap as hell for me.
ashpDiscordianUK: damn, as one crippled legged guy to another, I'm sorry to hear that :(
ashpmaybe if someone gets me a giant discount i'll go Comnenus
DiscordianUKThank you
ashpif evolution smuggles me in
Comnenusashp: maybe you should talk to someone
jnixComnenus: hopefully i get to go, it's up in the air at the moment
ashpi am, I'm talkin to you :D
Comnenusis Evolution going? Last I heard he's being a little bitch as usual.
ashptypical bitch!
Comnenusjnix: you better.
jnixi'm about to go home early so my coworker can't talk to me anymore
Evolutionhave you *seen* the type of people who go to summit?
EvolutionF that noise
ashpi dunno that jnix guy sounds like trouble
ComnenusEvolution: seriously, you going?
Evolutionnot planning on it.
Comnenusyou should.
jnixashp: most definitely
Evolutionit conflicts with dockercon
ashpEvolution: oh it does?
EvolutionComnenus: *dockercon*
ashpi wonder if I can swing dockercon
Comnenusyeah, so?
ashpdammit, trust it to be in san fran
Comnenusit is
jnixoh nice
ashpi'll talk to the boss, dockercon sounds useful
jnixSalesforce CEO Marc Benioff is helping employees who are uncomfortable with Indiana's controversial religious freedom law to transfer out of the state.
ComnenusI'll be at summit when it's in boston.
ComnenusAnd then choose randomly on the other years.
ComnenusI suspect next year I'll go to LISA or something.
ashpgod that reminds me I really gotta start trying to talk to people about keynote shit in advance this year
ashpbefore we have to cancel again for having zero talks
acidrainfallwould you consider 16-18 chars too long for a root pw?
rigeld2Not if I didn't have to type it all the time
ashpit should be cut and paste out of a password database, so
acidrainfallmy point
acidrainfalltheirs: "can't paste into idrac"
acidrainfallI'm like
acidrainfallhow often are you using root?
ashpfucking idrac :/
acidrainfallI also want root disabled via ssh
acidrainfalllost that one too
ashpbut yeah, I mean, how often would you be needing to root into idrac
acidrainfallwanted static addressing
acidrainfalllost that to static dhcp
acidrainfallwanted to have a small, separate (From corporate), secure ldap system. Lost that one.
ashpstatic dhcp is my preference
acidrainfallWanted to use Katello to manage our version-locked clusters. "too many bugs"
acidrainfallBut our networks don't change
acidrainfallWhy add dhcp in the mix?
rigeld2I'm okay with static dhcp, fine with corp ldap server...
acidrainfallyou clearly trust your corp people more than I do
rigeld2well, since when I was fine with it I helped run it...
acidrainfallyeah but we have people with access I can't control :(
acidrainfalllike the son of the chairman
ashpwhat could go wrong!
acidrainfallit's whatever
DiscordianUKProbably best to avoid the spawn of the $CEO
acidrainfallhe "works" in our it dept
Comnenusashp: welp, about to head to worcester....
acidrainfalland now my vcenter services crashed
ashpComnenus: you poor bastard
Comnenusashp: pray for me. Or at least, pray for all the other drivers I can't resist from ripping out of their cars and beating them to death.
ashpdo it, beat them, BEAT THEM
ashpi keep thinking about leaving early but i'd have to leave right now
ashpand i didn't get here until late
ComnenusI could take rt 2...
Comnenusactually scratch that
ashpyeah, don't worry
Comnenusit'll take an hour to get through fucking Lincoln and Lexington. Have you seen the mess the road is?
ashpturns out we're ready to test, so welp
Evolutionjesus... this is how people die ->
gaurdrooh, oh god. the cocaine.... that would kill someone.
jnixi just got added to a new project for openshift
MerlinTHPAnyone who actually managed to survive the first couple of seasons would be dead by the end of the first episode of Vice
ashpi like this guy
ashpthe guy behind me is totally excited and happy (on the train) that he can "ask for a server and it appears by the end of the day"
ashpthat shit makes me sad
jnixdunno how true/untrue this is
jnixfyi guys
MerlinTHPACTION stares at jnix
ashpoh god someone just sent me the worst pic
ashpand now I need a target in here to blast with it
ashphey.... evolution
ashpit really is harsh
rigeld2jnix: ...
ashpand i laughed really hard because I'm a monster in human skin
acidrainfallwas it 4 years ago?
Evolutionfucking finally
ashpyou terrible man
ashpso evo, what's the benefit here?
ashpwhat do i get in exchange for the monster that is systemd
Evolutionashp: consistent tooling across iron-> docker
ashpnice, that's pretty big
Evolutionno more hamfisting startup scripts
ashpand process management that -works-
Evolutionplus host journald log separation
ashpyeah, like my fucking haproxy "do a bash loop bruh, and check for pids" nonsense
Evolutionso logging (in theory) works and the host systemd can read/parse container logs
ashpwould have been two seconds to do in systemd
ashpone benefit of no systemd is if your httpd dies the container dies, what would this do?
Evolutionsame as a regular system, but you can have systemd make sure a process is running
Evolutionso if it dies, systemd just restarts it
Evolutioncontainer continues on normally
acidrainfallthat's awesome
ashpI don't know if I want that, if a process dies I really want the container to explode in a firey wrecking ball too :(
rigeld2ashp: why?
ashpso that I know my process is eating shit
ashpif i start an http container and it dies I want it to die
ashpI don't want systemd just happily restarting it every 5 seconds like we're cool
rigeld2ashp: Um. systemd doesn't have to do that
rigeld2ashp: you can set up some smarts
ashprigeld2: yeah, just not sure how that would work within a container, i'd have to do some experimenting, it's a cool hack and I don't know why docker people are so resistant to running an init
gaurdroanyone run steam on linux, and have it spawn a bunch of copies of itself?
AndyCapashp: "it's not the core value prop." :P
insomniasorry, that's Sunday.
jnixrigeld2: i think i fell for a trolling attempt
acidrainfalljnix: tehe
acidrainfallanyone here used git-shell-commands before?
acidrainfallI've gotten it to work but I can't remember how...
acidrainfalloh shi
jnixyes i use git clone all the time
rigeld2jnix: Think?!
acidrainfallI gotta go
acidrainfalljnix: git-shell-commands is a specific function of git-shell
acidrainfallyou have a git-shell-commands directory with some scripts
acidrainfallit executes help when present
acidrainfallit's not picking it up, stupid thing
AndyCapaw damnit. 1GB is not enough to run the installer
jnixIBM's watson analytics looks neat
AndyCap you will not be short listed for the post if you ... have expressed a belligerent attitude towards other users.
billingsgaurdro: I had that problem with personal fedora workstation
billings(endless loop of steam processes)
billingsI seem to recall it was something selinux-related
billingsalso some missing 32-bit libraries
billingsI just remember being disappointed that none of the games ran very well
billingsand gave up
ashpgod i really wish i had a coworker ;_;
Comnenusashp: you have no coworker, HAH HAH
ashpI have a couple of devs but it's just me trying to hold the ops/deployment/automation/testing side of things down
billingspah. coworkers are overrated. they just go and get jobs elsewhere or retire when you finally have things working.
ashptoday I had to tell one of the guys
ashppick between a and b and i can do ONE of those fucking things
Comnenusashp: you still in Boston?
ashpstop asking me about the other
ashpComnenus: god no, i'm on my sofa
ashpi leave on the 5:05 train as much as I can
ComnenusMakes sense
ComnenusThe pike as always was a cluster fuck
SokelHere's a random question. Is there a script or a utility that actually generates the ifcfg-* files?
Comnenusyes - system-config-network
SokelRight so, is that called in some way during the setup of the system? I'm curious like on kickstarted systems or systems where I'm manually installign from a DVD, for example.
jnixI want a baby
Evolution#rhel after-dark ->
ashpthat cabling
AndyCapnow show us the end where sysapes plug in the connectors
AndyCapah, the extreme networks demo setup
ashpoh god no
AndyCapyou all know the other side of the panel looks like
AndyCapunless you have cow-orkers like my last job, that felt patching across the aisles was an excellent idea
AndyCapok, that was more than enough Nightmare Fuel for tonight
Evolutiondo you all know what cable's natural enemy is?
AndyCapa backhoe?
AndyCapright. :)
AndyCaplooks a bit underpowered for that ripper?
fedbotjnix: Title: HODOR vs GROOT RAP BATTLE, Views: 1177772, Rating: 91.64142%
SokelAndyCap: Thank you. That makes thinks a little bit more clear.
jnixit's still comcast